so the WWE would rather have a part timer like Goldberg who doesn't move the needle than someone like Bray Wyatt. I find it hard to believe Goldberg moves more merch than Bray.
Bray losing to Cena at Mania 30, losing to Orton at Mania 33 and then losing this past Mania were horrible decisions. The worst might've been losing his first match to Goldberg in Saudi only for Goldberg to lose it to Strowman only for him to lose it to Wyatt. bad bad bad
I have to start this off with saying that Bray Wyatt is absolutely one of my favorites. In terms of the modern era, he's right up there with CM Punk for me.Originally Posted by PurePlayer
30 and 33 were terrible booking decisions. This past Mania, I heard he asked to be taken off tv and that was the explanation behind why he lost but that could've been all rumor.
The big negative for Bray is that despite producing good merch numbers, dude gets injured way too often. You could say that about Harper and Rowan as well. Bray missing 4-5 months at a time did him no favors. So does merch matter if you're not there? Does it matter if you're not delivering in the ring and people aren't into your ideas that the WWE are letting you do. It's been reported many many times the guy rarely has to alter his promos, all this funhouse shit is his idea, it's all him because they trust him.
Fuck Goldberg though lol. I'm not trying to make this about who is more important, Goldberg or Bray Wyatt because honestly it feels like the only person more important than Goldberg is Vince himself. Not even Lesnar seems to be as important to the company judging by the squash at Survivor Series a few years ago. It's like when people bring up Eva Marie when Mickie James was released. It's apples and oranges. You could probably find more Goldberg fans than Wyatt fans unfortunately. Bray being a top merch seller might not be great in comparison to other talent over the years.
It's like today, people blowing their wad that AEW gets a 1.1 but shit on TNA for getting a 2.0 15 years ago.
In the current viewing audience, you think there are more Goldberg fans? He's not as over as he was in 2016 when he first came back in my opinion. Wyatt being out from December-Mania wasn't due to injury and then after Mania wasn't due to injury. I don't think he's been injured for a few years now and definitely not since the transition to the Fiend. From what I read the finish to the Mania match was changed the day of. Could be wrong.
No matter how anyone slices it, Goldberg being paid all that money while cutting Wyatt for "budget reasons" is inexcusable.
I see no record of TNA getting a 2.0 rating in 2006. Please link your source.
People "blow their wad" because RAW has fell so far that AEW is closer to RAW in ratings than TNA ever was to WWE as long as the ratings I saw of 1.1 for TNA in 2006 vs RAWs 3.4 is accurate.
Last week's RAW drew a 1.32 so it's totally insane that Dynamite is so close to that.
I am sad to learn that Bray won't be around anymore. Especially if the reports that he had started to get himself together after taking Harper's death so hard.
I don't think he had many physical injuries since he debuted the Fiend, but there were weeks when we only saw him appear in the Firefly funhouse, so there was always speculation that he was hurt.
I think its safe to assume that they won't acknowlege his absence from TV. But it'd be great if they would have a special guest appearance in Alexa's playground - maybe they could have Ramblin Rabbit, Mercy the Buzzard, Husky Pig, etc. all take out Lilly the doll, to write her off. Then have Irwin R Schyster come in an claim they're all being taken away for not paying their taxes. End of angle.
Again I'm not trying to make this about Goldberg v. Wyatt and the value each hold because I'm biased. I've never been a Goldberg fan and Wyatt is one of my all time favorites. None of us in this conversation know enough about Goldberg's contract or the actual reason Wyatt and WWE parted ways. I'm not selective with what I believe dirt sheets putting out there. It's ALL with a grain of salt. My fandom for him is also why I'd rather it be a mutual agreement than simply, you make too much and we're not getting enough out of you to justify the cost.
So yeah we're literally just basing this off of internet rumors. Like I said, I heard he asked to be taken off tv and that's why he lost at Mania. We've also heard countless rumors that he's been struggling with Brodie Lee's death so if you look at your own timeline you just provided, kind of makes sense why he wasn't around that much.....
What DOES this current audience like? Your guess is as good as mine. Again, I'm not going trying to compare Bill Goldberg and Bray Wyatt. Do they like Wyatt more than Goldberg? I imagine, just going by how little love Wyatt/Fiend gets on this board alone, that the majority don't care if either are on the shows. I felt like I was the only person who like The Fiend. I even begged @mth to help me understand why he loves Boogeyman but didn't love Bray Wyatt. So you tell me. Goldberg actually got a pretty good pop when he showed up to challenge Lashley.
Let's just take a step back and put it out there that a dude named Bad Bunny came in and sold $50,000 in t-shirts in a matter of days. Take a poll maybe 5% of the wrestling audience knew who the fuck he was so I imagine it wasn't this "current audience" that did that. He did that during a pandemic with zero fans and we don't even see a single motherfucker in these crowds rocking his shit. Goldberg probably sold more t-shirts with his stupid tribal logo on it than all of Wyatt's merch combined.
Now if you really want to have a discussion.....Why would they release Wyatt as opposed to releasing 10-20 wrestlers/staff that don't contribute shit and never will? Dana Brooke, Tamina, Drew Gulak, Lucha House Party, Titus, R-Truth, Ziggler, Roode, those are names that I think should have been sacrificed to keep Wyatt if it was purely budget.
My source is deez nuts. It was just a random number to show that people hold little bullshit things like AEW's ratings in such high regard when 10-15 years ago TNA would get those same ratings, or better, and it was the end of the world. It was the end of the world in the 90's when Raw got a 3.
So it wasn't a real number and you have no real point, got it.
TNA was maybe close once to the same ratings as RAW, when Hogan wanted them to go live on a Monday, 2.2 million viewers. Dynamite being 200k away from a RAW rating is crazy and shows how far RAW has fallen.
The point I've made twice now Proud Bert has nothing to do with what you're talking. You AEW Gatekeepers are just so quick to turn a negative into a positive.
So for the Simple Berts of the board that need to defend AEW---My reasoning for bringing up AEW getting a 1.1 (was that a real rating Bert?) was to show that something that is viewed as being great today doesn't mean it was great in the past-and vice versa.
I think this site needs a warning label that if you dare speak on AEW be prepared for the Gatekeepers to come in and tell you how to speak about the promotion.
Why are you comparing ratings to the past? Why does that matter at all today?
RAW got a 7.4 in May of 2000, why does that matter? They got a 1.32 last week.
Dynamite got a 1.1. Is that not less than 300k viewers away from beating RAW?
I've already proven TNA never got anywhere close to the ratings of RAW when they were both airing, your entire argument is bullshit.
I read that in Scott Steiner’s voice.
Virm does call them promos.
At Sacrifice, I only have a 33 and a third chance of figuring out what the fuck Nash is talking about 50% of the time.
Dude....you created this argument lol. When I mentioned AEW and TNA, it wasn't me starting a ratings discussion lol. We were talking about Bray Wyatt and his merch numbers maybe appearing great but not being that great in comparison to the past.
And I thought some of you were relentless when Trump was shit on in the Politics thread, this AEW white knighting is getting out of hand lol.
Virm also takes pictures of people and claims the 1st amendment freedom of press.
Read it in Xavier Woods' voice. Many people say that we sound almost identical.
Petition to check Nash Diesel’s IP against ROB’s IP.
Same long posts, same weird insulting names. “Proud Bert”. Yikes.
Dude I just a 8 paragraph post from Slare, you might want to re-think who's sharing IP's. Kind of weird he keeps responding to my posts after putting me on ignore. That's exactly what I would do to throw you guys off.
Plus it'd be weird if I were ROB because we actually debated each other in my first Wilfred's
You do know why we call him Proud Bert? If you support the Proud Boys you get stuck with a fun nickname. I know who you voted for as well, so I can kind of see why a lot of you AEW gatekeepers stick together.
Definitely ROB. Or ROB’s cousin from the corn fields.
Question: how do you feel about baseball??
I feel like the only good contribution that sport ever made was the idea of taking the bat, wrapping it in barbed-wire, you know, Lucille v. Glen.
Now you’re trying to throw me off the trail.
You can’t fool me, NashOverBoston.
"It's like today, people blowing their wad that AEW gets a 1.1 but shit on TNA for getting a 2.0 15 years ago."
Dude you created this argument. You've also said it before and I just didn't feel like arguing at the time.
He only wishes. Although, I am a big Celtics fan and the only baseball player I ever really gave a shit about was Wade Boggs who played for the Boston Red Sox for awhile.
It was an example used, it wasn't intended for the AEW Gatekeepers to pop up but by now I should know better. I knew Hero was right behind, it's always one or the other. So no, I didn't create any argument. You chose one thing out of that entire promo to focus on because it was AEW being mentioned and it wasn't me going "OH AEW YOU ARE SO FUCKING AWESOME WITH YOUR 1.1 RATING!!" Which again, was that even a real number?
Nash and ROB are probably tied in length post volume. Maybe something to this!
Mik and Slare have us beat. It's not even a competition. Probably why neither even join the Wilfred's, word cap and all. But I'm open for a tag-team match if someone can dig up ROB.Nash and ROB are probably tied in length post volume. Maybe something to this!
Actually Mik did actually participate once a time.
Slare used to take part a few times back in the day. He was really good.
Nobody gives a shit.
I was only playing on your reference lol.
What?
Mik and Slare. You brought them up first lol.
Are you high? What are you talking about dude?
I quoted your post and jokingly made light of your Mik/Slare beef.
Are you high?
What beef? We're talking about long-winded posters and I namedropped the two that definitely have me beat.
Yeah damn those long-winded posters Nash. You’re not long-winded at all.
When I have I ever disagreed with that accusation? lol I even welcome Virm calling them promos. But when we're talking about who has the longest posts, I think I'm in the top 10 but definitely not the top 5.Yeah damn those long-winded posters Nash. You’re not long-winded at all.
Dude you are so triggered.
Back to Earth, just dicking with you.
Oh my bad I had no idea you could tell my tone by that post lol. Triggered? Says the guy who took me out of the debate for saying you were acting like a bitch.Dude you are so triggered.
Back to Earth, just dicking with you.
Let it oot Nash. Dinnae hold back!
You were so triggered I thought you were going to Darren Till me to the police for saying your actions were borderline bitch-like.
My longest beat your longest.
But at least yours have content. If you read some of my longer posts, I just start to fill them out with old chili recipes and stories about the time I hunted a bunch of homeless people with a speargun after the first time I tried crystal meth.
Somewhere after the ratings, but before the 3rd mik/slare reference....we distinctly hit the derail thread threshold.
That's what happens when you guys let the AEW Gatekeepers run the show. Pure and I were having a good conversation about Bray Wyatt's release and it was derailed with nonsense about AEW's wonderful 1.1 rating.
I was hoping for a reply from Pure but he quit the boards.
Let it oot lol.
Nash your primary angst seems to be AEW fans overhyping correct?
Why does it matter to you?
Sorry VHS I just stole your gimmick
I thought Oz could have been the worst gimmick for Nash. Stand corrected now said man in orthopaedic shoes.
The worst gimmick for Nash was when he returned and agreed to let CM Punk shit all over him.
Hogan fingerpoke of doom towards him > *
Funny how Nash didnt put him over. Who knew.
The worst gimmick for Nash was that moustache he had during the Punk angle.
Blame WWE for not medically clearing Nash. My dream match cancelled because of the Wellness.
I think Vince sent Hogan, Nash and Hall to WCW to kill it from within. Hogan just couldn't do it with the red and yellow, so Vince had to send him back-up in Hall and Nash.
If that was true then he's a complete idiot lol. Send Hogan when business starts to go down then send 2 of your top 5 guys while business is even worse?
If he knew Hogan was planning on going to WCW I wonder how hard he would've tried to keep Hogan.
I haven't seen much of his work other than teaming up with Archer over the last 5-10 years. I was really high on that team with him, Kidd, and Nattie.
He was pretty solid in MLW, but relies heavily on Teddy for charisma. His Bloodsport matches have been good, it fits his style of working perfectly.
he works very much a catch-as-catch-can style so he’d probably do very well more on like NXT or NXTUK.
Still can’t cut a promo to save his life
Can't wait for him to prove me right in my debate choice.
Put him on Smackdown with the Alpha Acadamy.
Not interested in that signing at all. I like him, but he's flat as toast.
Remember when Hogan made him show off his calves to Brooke?
He reminds me of that season of tough enough where they were trying to force Matt Cross to have a personality and good ole MDogg just didn’t get it.
Davey Boy Smith Jr is just such a bland human being. He’s in a special class of people who know how to perform a wrestling match, but look as bored as can be doing it.
Lance Storm Syndrome. Also known as Jerry Lynn Disease. Davey Boy Smith Jr with a manager would be a killer. His dad was dog shit on the mic too and his mom looked like she was the missionary position situation Roman spoke about on Smackdown.
resigns or re-signs?
big difference!
Probably resigns, he'd do better elsewhere.
Who’s gonna get him a visa tho?
We'll just have to find him an unwed American girl to marry.
That can be his first big angle.
He tours the indy wrestling scene looking for love (and a visa...wink wink)) before he has to go back overseas.
How does PAC work for AEW?
Better than average
Lol.
hired pre-covid. Much, much more difficult to get a visa now. Hence Ben Frazier going to NXTUK, because AEW told him straight-up they could not get him a visa easily.
I met Matt about 2-3ish years ago and he is a legit nice dude, though almost to his own detriment. We chatted about Tough Enough and he mentioned several times how he didn't want the trainers to think of him as this arrogant, experienced wrestler that could run circles around everybody. He dialed back his ability so that he could fit in more with the rest of the cast, and I couldn't help but think he shot himself in the foot with that strategy because he was one of the first to get eliminated.
Back to Davey, yeah he's just an empty pallet. His wrestling is mechanically sound, but his lack of personality and charisma bring him down a lot of pegs.
Davey Jr. reminds me of Curtis Axel, without the charisma.
Did Curtis Axel have charisma? I guess when I think of charisma, the person I usually don't think of for the first 10-20 years is Curtis Axel.
Curtis Axel had almost no charisma before he and Bo Dallas came up with the B team - B stands for Best.
To this day I have no idea how that team got over.
Enjoyed Axel's Rumble streak thing he was on for a bit. Aside from that and B-team couldn't tell you a damn thing memorable he did. Nexus doesn't count, he was Mike Lots-of-Letters.
Curtis Axel was never eliminated from the Royal Rumble.
8 years ago, Michael MacGilmacarver became Curtis Axel... everybody hit their DVR so hard.
They sucked.
They sure did, but they had a heckuva run, far longer than most fans would have predicted.
The handmade tee shirts were a nice touch, but it was the way they got the crowd to chant "B Team B Team Go Go GO" that was impressive. They even morphed into the Miztourage for a few more months.
Oh come on, could a guy with no charisma cut a promo like this?
checkmate, losers.
Impossible to be worse than his dad though, right?
'The British Bulldog is gonna win the royal rumble because I'm BIZARRE!'
Would’ve been bizarre if he won.
Man I marked out hard when I thought the Bulldog won the 1995 Royal Rumble.
I wasn't negative to them being with the Miztourage but yeah.....The fact these 2 jobbers beat Matt Hardy and Bray Wyatt. Idk what tag-team title reign Curtis had sucked more for the audience, the B-Team or the never ending run he had with Job Otunga.
Otunga is such a curiosity for me. From everything I can find, he's still employed by the WWE, but hasn't wrestled in 6 years. is he still doing pre-shows? I don't know, I have no clue what he does! If they're looking to trim the budget, maybe start there? I'd love to see the Vince McMahon sex tape he must have in his safe.
Yeah if you're going to argue that Braun or Bray makes too much money well maybe trim the fat i.e. people like Tamina who never really get used and have zero upside. A lot of the wrestlers like Dana Brooke have no upside, they don't draw, they don't sell merch so what the fuck? At least with a Bray you're HOPEFULLY making some of your money back on the merch, on the fans that do actually like him.....Cut 12 jabronis to save 2-3 solid talents.
I really liked B-Team, but they shouldn't have been hotshotted to the titles like they were. Especially over Bray and Matt. They should have let them keep doing comedy bits while slowly building up wins over a few months, and if they were still over, THEN you consider putting the belts on them.
Instead, they ruined all goodwill towards that team and contributed to the demise of Hardy and Bray. Shame.
I imagine there's probably an element of Bray getting paid way more than the likes of Tamina/Otunga. Not sure if there's any truth to that at all, I'm just making a guess.
I think the B team was over because the fans like Bo Dallas a lot more than they ever cared about Curtis Axel, who was just sort of ... there.
There's no doubt to me that the audience reacted more for the B-Team a lot more than the Otunga/Axel reign.
Exactly, that's why you cut about 12 or so people to save the 2-3 that actually contribute, that actually make the company money, that people actually want to watch.
If Tamina or Otunga get released, do you really think fans are going to be pissed about that and question that move? Did anyone chant Alexander Wolfe's name at all? Nope. So there are expendables and unlike Tony Khan, Vince doesn't have an unlimited budget but he sure as shit should be like look, we're releasing people that make a lot of money but they make us a lot of money as well.
When you turn on Raw and Smackdown, and you see all this camera time for Nia Jax.....And then the ratings are 1.34 lol.
yeah, but how much money does he bring in? The dude was a fucking merch machine.
My nephew doesn’t like wrestling, but he looooves the Fiend. His parents have spent so much money on Fiend shirts, costume, toys, etc.
If you look at their action figure releases, Bray gets usually 6 action figures a year. Only person who gets that many is Roman. AJ & Seth did at their peaks, but Bray has sustained that level of continuous figure releases for years now.
His creative mind alone is worth keeping around. Arguing to keep Tamina and the like over Bray Wyatt is a weird argument.
Guys, WWE and Vince obviously know what they're doing. They wouldn't be in business this long if they didn't.
Do we really need a 24/7 segment? R-Truth, Humberto, Tozawa, Reginald. Not to mention Tamina lol. I think you can cut around 400k right there.
They knew what they were doing. The brand is what is keeping them afloat not their creative or other decisions.
Nope.
Yes, keeping Tamina around=smart business decision. Thanks P
Exactly. The brand keeps them afloat, they make more money than ever, but at what cost?
If the idea is simply, and I know you didn't say this originally-but if the idea is simply "They know what they're doing" Maybe. I'm not even sure what that means, they know how to make money? Yes. But like CM Punk said years ago, Vince is a millionaire who should be a legit billionaire.
Imagine you're watching Raw and it's Cedric Alexander v. Mansoor, and trying to argue that because the WWE know what they're doing that it's a better site to see than Bray Wyatt or Aleister Black or shit even The Good Brothers.
I'd rather those guys get booked like ass than have to watch Cedric v. Manson and those 2 get booked like ass lol.
From everything we see or hear, Nick Khan is a driving force behind these budget cuts.
The same Nick Khan who just bought an $8 million mansion.
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