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  1. #301
    Team Bushido MMA The Slaughter Within's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irish Kamikaze
    I don't think they should have boxing officials to judge UFC fights....damn NSAC

    I think they should get the "Twister" himself Eddie Bravo as an actual judge, instead of his "pretend" judge role, which is more realistic then the real judges.



    Who's excited for Tito/Shamrock II??

    Someones gonna get rocked, and he's on my avatar!

  2. #302
    woof... Dave M's Avatar
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    Yeah, after seeing Tito/Shamrock I, I just think Shamrock is too old and far outclassed by Tito. Shamrock's face looked like a raw steak after the first fight.

    He's too much of a hothead, anyway. He's way too over-emotional about this rivalry. Tito is going to take advantage of that and pulverize him again.

  3. #303
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Slaughter Within
    Who's excited for Tito/Shamrock II??
    I'm not, but same was said for Tito/Forrest....and they delivered. I just don't like Shamrock at all. The whole "I demand respect, so I'm gonna take it" schtik of his is old and has no place in todays MMA. First, he needs wins before talking crap to Ortiz. Since UFC 40, Shamrock has gone 1-2 with a TKO victory over Kimo (wow, whoo-pee) and TKO losses to Franklin (excusable) and Sakuraba (Sakuraba?! TKO? in 2 1/2 minutes?!). Shamrock has no right at all about talking crap to Ortiz, especially since Ortiz dominated him from start to finish at UFC 40....though Shamrock had his moments, it was definately one-sided. Shamrock needs to stop living in his fantasy world of "I let my fighting do the talking in the cage" because he hasn't delivered and he's not exactly who he thinks he is....a top fighter. I expect the same from the first time these two have fought, but I think the fight will be quicker and more brutal....the same being that it'll be one-sided of course....Tito Ortiz via TKO round 2

    As for the rest of UFC 61....

    Main Card

    Tim Sylvia vs. Andrei Arlovski
    - The reason why this fight intrigues me is that I can't really imagine what will happen to the loser of this fight. Will he be thrown into high profiled fights for another shot at the heavyweight title or will be dropped down into fights that won't help their careers in the UFC? Evan Tanner, after losing his title, was put in a #1 contenders match against Loiseau, but came up short. If it's Arlovski, I think they'll give him a few high profiled fights before another shot at the title....especially if Sylvia is not the champion at the time. As for Sylvia, I think the UFC keeps him far away from the HW title as possible. He's not exactly who they are looking for as champion....in a marketing aspect. Don't get me wrong, he's a big tough guy with very good boxing, but his look isn't appealing like Arlovski, Franklin, Hughes, and Liddell. But may the better fighter win....Arlovski via TKO round 1

    Yves Edwards vs. Joe Stevenson
    - Very tough fight for both fighters. Both have so much to prove since their disappointing losses in their last outings. Yves, the once thought of as uncrowned Lightweight Champion, has to come back and prove that he truly is a legitimate contender for the LW title. He's fought all around the world and he was dominant up until the UFC LW division came to a close. But against Hominick, he was dismantled against the much smaller Mark Hominick, who originally fights at 145lbs. Stevenson on the other hand is easily the more recognizable fighter of the two when it comes to new fans. The TUF 2 Welterweight Champion has dropped down to LW due to his teammate, Diego Sanchez, already fighting in the UFC WW division. He is coming off a very tough loss to Josh Neer, who was a heavy underdog in their fight back at Ultimate Fight Night 4. Neer practically dominated rounds 2 and 3 as Stevenson showed little sign of urgency. Stevenson needs this fight, but Yves needs it more if he truly wants to be known as a contender in the publics eyes....Yves Edwards via JD

    Josh Neer vs. Josh Burkman
    - Josh Neer is living the life since his loss to Drew Fickett at the very first Ultimate Fight Night with wins over TUF 2 contestants Melvin Guillard (UFN 3) and Joe Stevenson (UFN 4/TUF 2 WW champion). He may soon be billed as the TUF-Hunter if he can defeat Josh Burkman. Neer is a product from the Miletich camp and brings a pretty good all around game. But Neer is known for his stand up due to his 7 KO's in 17 wins. But Neer showed his submission skills in his win over Guillard via triangle choke....which he needed desperately due to a deep cut over his eye that almost stopped the fight. He's not the best wrestler, but he can work from his back. Josh Burkman was touted as one of the favorites of TUF 2, but had to leave due to injury after his decision victory over Guillard. Burkman came back at the TUF finale 2 with a quick victory over fellow cast member, Sam Morgan, via KO/Slam in just 21 seconds. He then came back at UFN 3 and defeated Drew Fickett with relative ease in just 1:07 of round 1 via guillotine choke. His set back came at UFN 4 when he faced a relative unknown to newer fans, but very respected in the eyes of hardcore fans, in Jon Fitch. Fitch dominated the fight standing and on the ground. Burkman was outclassed in all aspects and was almost finished standing a few times, but it was ground and pound on the mat which resulted in Burkman rolling to his stomach to avoid punishment and Fitch sinking in the 2 hooks and a rear naked choke at 4:57 of round 2 that sealed the deal. The only positive thing for Burkman is that nobody has seen the fight against Fitch....only able to read the online results and write ups. This will be a tough fight for both and Burkman, who has been training with Team Punishment as of late, needs it more....Burkman via TKO round 2

    Frank Mir vs. Dan Christison
    - A very intriguing fight for some as Frank Mir needs to prove to the UFC and MMA world that he's back for good. Some say that he came back too soon from the motor cycle accident that side lined him for over a year and the reason he was stripped of his title. He took a very hard loss against BJJ product in Marcio "Pe De Pano" Cruz via TKO/Cut at UFC 57. Instead of making excuses, Mir got on the mic and told the world that he's a man and he will hang his head down for so little before he picks himself back up and starts to train again. Dan Christison is a product of TUF 2's HW division and was one of the top sought after HW's a few years back. He is currently on a 6-fight win streak with wins over Jimmy Ambriz (former KOTC Super HW champion), Ben Rothwell (Team Miletich), Brad Imes (TUF 2 finalist), and Andre "the Chief" Roberts (UFC veteran). He was brought in as an alternate once Eli Joslin left the show due to being a pussy. He has very good stand up and ground skills. Though he's not as good or great as Mir on the ground, I think he can hold his own....Christison via TKO round 2....though I really want Mir to win this fight as he needs it more and he'll need to win very dominantly if he's to be taken serious in the division.

    And to round out the rest of the card....

    Preliminary Bouts

    Jeff Monson vs. Anthony Perosh
    - Jeff Monson has been a one man wrecking crew since his last loss, to Forrest Griffin, back in 2002. Since then, he has been riding a 15 fight win streak and has been a monster at the ADCC. He was impressive against Brandon Lee Hinkle at UFC 57 by defeating him via, I dunno, neck crush in the north-south position, in the first round. At UFC 59, he came back and took on Marcio "Pe De Pano" Cruz, who was coming off a win against Frank Mir, in a fight that was billed as a #1 Contenders match for the UFC HW title. But due to the sluggish fight they put on, they did not impress enough. Monson showed pretty good stand up, but both fighters respected each others ground games that they kept that to a minimal. Oh, these 2 had bad blood due to an ADCC match in the past. Monson took the win, but not decisively. I don't know too much about Anthony Perosh, other than he has won all of his 5 fights via submission. But will it be enough against a fighter who has world class submission skills and a streak of 15 wins? Monson via TKO round 2

    Drew Fickett vs. Kurt Pellegrino
    - Drew Fickett currently as a UFC record of 2-2 with wins over Josh Neer (UFN 1) and Josh Koscheck (UFN 2) and losses to Nick Diaz (UFC 51) and Josh Burkman (UFN 3). His 2 losses were very decisive as he was dismantled from start to finish. His 2 wins were fights he was losing up until the submissions. Against Koscheck, he was completely dominated up until the last minute of the very last round in which Koscheck was on his way to a decision victory, then BAM! Fickett was able to land a high kick, which the knee caught Koscheck on his chin, and Fickett followed him down and applied the rear naked choke to finish the fight in a stunning upset. Fitckett brings an all round game, but just not top notch level talent that most of the UFC WW's currently possess. Kurt Pellegrino is a training partner of Hermes Franca. He is known for his submission skills and has decent stand up. The problem in this fight is that Pellegrino is moving up from 155lbs to 170lbs to take the fight. I think this fight will go very similarly to the fight between Matt Serra and Ivan Menjivar from UFC 48, where Serra, who's originally a LW, was facing Menjivar, who originally fights at 145lbs. I think Fickett will be able to control the much (naturally) smaller fighter in Pellegrino....Fickett via JD

    Hermes Franca vs. Roger Huerta
    - The return of Hermes Franca is upon us. He has been on a downward spiral with 5 losses total since his decision loss to Josh Thomson at UFC 46. He is currently on a 4 fight win streak and is the current WEC LW champion (defeated Gabe "Godzilla" Ruediger) and has earned his way back into the LW division that is going to take off once the fighters are established. He was once a top 5 LW in the world, but today, he's in the top 15-20. He needs this fight badly as I'm sure he is looking for another opportunity to fight Yves Edwards who defeated him twice via split decisions. Franca is currently a training partner at the Armory with Kurt Pellegrino. Franca has excellent JJ skills and has heavy hands. His stamina has been questionable, but he makes up for it with great heart. Roger Huerta is a fighter I have long been anticipating to grace us in the Octagon. The only blemish on his record came back in 2004 when he lost to Ryan Schultz in the finals of the LW tournament held in Super Brawl....here on Oahu, Hawaii which I missed due to being deployed Since that loss, he has been riding a 10-fight win streak with wins over KOTC vet Joe Camacho and now UFC vet "Handsome" Matt Wiman. He too brings an all around game with good stand up and great grappling skills. I think Huerta has much better wrestling skills, but Franca can work from his back. If Huerta can withstand Franca's pressure of his rapid fire submission attempts, he can just eek out a victory....Roger Huerta via JD....very tough fight for me to call as both are well rounded

    Gilbert Aldana vs. Cheick Kongo
    - Gilbert Aldana is back. In his UFC debut, he showed great heart and chin against Paul Buentello at UFC 57 in a very exciting brawl. He has tremendous power, but lacks the stamina and reach. He's a baby bull who likes to rush his opponents by putting them against the cage and letting his hands fly in the clinch. He's known for his tight range uppercuts. He's 5-1 with all 5 wins coming by the way of KO. Cheick Kongo hails from France has fought in Holland on many occassions. He's 7-2-1 and has 5 KO victories under his belt. He's known for his stand up and that'll be good for a fight that I think will turn into an all out brawl. Kongo brings the international flavor that the hardcore fans have been asking for long ago. The UFC needs more international fighters, especially in the HW division....prediction: somebody's getting knocked out in round 1

    and there you have it
    Last edited by Irish Kamikaze; July 1st, 2006 at 5:20 AM.

  4. #304
    12th Man
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    possibly TUF 4 spoiler, includes possible finalists....


  5. #305
    12th Man
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    Other finalist revealed....


  6. #306
    Team Bushido MMA The Slaughter Within's Avatar
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    Any of you watch PRIDE this weekend, some big names moved on in the OWGP!

  7. #307
    Intercontinental Champion P Dandy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Slaughter Within
    Any of you watch PRIDE this weekend, some big names moved on in the OWGP!
    Couldn't watch it but I read that some of the best in the world made the final four (Cro Cop, Barnet, Nog, Wanderlai). That's going to be a great semi finals.

  8. #308
    12th Man
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    I downloaded a few fights: Nastula/Drago, Silva/Fujita, Belfort/Takahashi, and Rogerio Nogueira/Overeem....downloading Barnett/Hunt, CroCop/Yoshida, Nakamura/Cyborg, and Nogueira/Werdum right now

    I'm very thankful for the final four that's remaining....but pretty predictable. I expect the following match ups for Final Conflict:

    - Barnett/Nogueira
    - Silva/CroCop II

    I'm sure they'd love for a Nogueira/CroCop II for the finals....and I'm sure that's what the fans in Japan want as well.

    Also, here's some UFC 61 news. ROGER HUERTA has pulled out of his fight against Hermes Franca due to injury. Joe Jordan, Huerta's training partner, has stepped in to take the fight. Jordan is 19-9-2 and riding a 5 fight win streak, but against mediocre competition.
    Last edited by Irish Kamikaze; July 2nd, 2006 at 8:24 PM.

  9. #309
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    I'm a UFC obsessed fan. More obsessed with UFC than WWE thats for sure. I also am obsessed with PRIDE. Did anyone else see Mark Hunt lost to Barnett? I'm pissed I thought Mark Hunt would pawn Barnett. Biggest upset.

  10. #310
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crabtree
    Did anyone else see Mark Hunt lost to Barnett? I'm pissed I thought Mark Hunt would pawn Barnett. Biggest upset.
    An upset? Biggest upset? Hunt wins 2 controversial decisions over Silva and CroCop....now he's god? How is this an upset? Barnett being a former UFC HW champ and King of Pancrase....yeah, definately a can fed to Hunt to blast and advance in the tournament. Wow, he beat a much smaller Nishijima who was making his debut, and it took quite a long time to accomplish that win. Also, he beats Kohsaka who stated he was on his road to retirement....not a big accomplishment either as Hunt was getting worked standing against a fighter known for the "TK Guard". Then we come to Barnett who is one of the best all around fighters in the world today and it's a big upset?

    NO.

  11. #311
    12th Man
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    Oh, here's the HBO/UFC deal info....

    The UFC plans to run a very large amount of shows in 2007 and is very close to a television deal with HBO, the Wrestling Observer reports.

    The Observer reports that the negotiations between Zuffa and HBO are serious enough that a deal between the two sides is "likely" to be reached in the near future. The UFC shows on HBO would be in addition to all of the UFC shows on pay-per-view and Spike TV, and would not replace the PPV or Spike deals. The deal with HBO might also place limits on the speech of UFC president Dana White in terms of how negative he is allowed to be when talking about boxing in the future, according to the Observer.

    Additionally, the Observer reports that regardless of whether or not a deal is finalized between Zuffa and HBO, Zuffa is planning to run a staggering number of UFC shows in 2007.

    Zuffa's current plan for 2007 is to run "about eleven" UFC pay-per-view events (priced at $39.95 per event), plus 6-8 Spike TV events (which includes 4-6 Ultimate Fight Night events and the live finales of TUF 5 and TUF 6), plus an unspecified number of HBO events if a deal can be finalized.

    As it is, 2006 is scheduled to have nine UFC pay-per-view events by the time the year is over. After running four PPVs in the first half of 2006, Zuffa has PPVs planned for July, August, September, October, and November of 2006, which means that nine UFC PPVs will have taken place in 2006. The plan in 2007 is to expand that number to ten or eleven PPV events during the year.

    There will also be six or seven UFC events on Spike TV in 2006 by the time this year is over, and that number is poised to grow to as much as eight in 2007. In addition to the live finales of TUF 3 (in June) and TUF 4 (in November), 2006 will have also featured Ultimate Fight Night 3 in January, UFN 4 in April, UFN 5 in June, UFN 6 on August 17th, and possibly UFN 7 later in 2006. The plan for 2007, in addition to the TUF 5 and TUF 6 live finales, is to run somewhere between four and six Ultimate Fight Night events.

    As previously reported by MMAWeekly, the announcements about the TV deal between Spike TV and Zuffa touted Spike as being the "exclusive cable home of the UFC," but that technically means basic cable, which allows Zuffa to also strike a deal with a pay TV channel such as HBO. The UFC events on HBO would not replace those on Spike, but HBO would be very likely to get the biggest shows that Zuffa produces other than its own PPV shows.

  12. #312
    Team Bushido MMA The Slaughter Within's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irish Kamikaze
    An upset? Biggest upset? Hunt wins 2 controversial decisions over Silva and CroCop....now he's god? How is this an upset? Barnett being a former UFC HW champ and King of Pancrase....yeah, definately a can fed to Hunt to blast and advance in the tournament. Wow, he beat a much smaller Nishijima who was making his debut, and it took quite a long time to accomplish that win. Also, he beats Kohsaka who stated he was on his road to retirement....not a big accomplishment either as Hunt was getting worked standing against a fighter known for the "TK Guard". Then we come to Barnett who is one of the best all around fighters in the world today and it's a big upset?

    NO.
    Agreed, Hunt was outclassed in that matchup on paper alone. And got lucky in his two big upsets.

  13. #313
    woof... Dave M's Avatar
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    Kamikaze, I'd rep you for the post regarding the HBO deal, but I have to spread some around first . Thanks for the great info.

    I hope Dana White's not spreading himself too thin here. Is there enough talent out there to carry this many shows (and still keep the quality high)?

  14. #314
    12th Man
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    Yes, there is definately enough talent to have the amount of shows. There are so many TUF fighters who have yet to make it outside their respective finales and others who have only made 1 appearance. Also, so many fighters who've come in and had 1 fight and were gone. Alot of rumored fighters also

    Also, the return of the LW division is going to hurt the amount of fights per event for the other weight classes. So they need to expand, but I feel they are diving in head first

  15. #315
    Game Changer Clutch's Avatar
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    Thanks for the kickass UFC61 preview post, IK! Good stuff.

    Hey, is anyone ordering UFC61? I definitely am, if only to see Shamrock get battered & Arlovski to get KO'd again

  16. #316
    12th Man
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    Here's some UFC 62 information:


    The rematch between Chuck "The Iceman" Liddell and Renato "Babalu" Sobral is now official. Tickets are announced to go on sale this Sunday at 10 a.m. PST at all Ticketmaster outlets.

    Interesting to note that the Ultimate Fighting Championship doesn't seem to have donned this show with a separate monicker, instead choosing to promote the show as UFC 62: Liddell vs. Sobral. It has been only on the rare occasion that the UFC has sidestepped their usual numbering and naming scheme and typically only for the most high-profile fights, such as Liddell vs. Couture, etc.

    Also rumored, but not yet confirmed to be on that card are matchups of Sean Sherk vs. Kenny Florian for the vacant UFC Lightweight Title which Jens Pulver vacated, but never lost in a fight; David Loiseau vs. Mike Swick; and David Terrell vs. either Anderson Silva OR Nathan Marquardt in a middleweight contender's match.
    The LHW title fight so many of us have been waiting for is upon us. Granted that Liddell ko'ed Babalu back in UFC 40, Babalu has improved by leaps and bounds. Getting Liddell down on the mat is a task in itself, but if he does, I wouldn't be suprised if he is able to submit the Iceman.

    I hope the LW title fight is confirmed soon....can't wait for the LW division to truly take off with only it's 2nd champion since it's emergence during the early Zuffa days....UFC 30 was when the first champion, Jens Pulver, was crowned by defeating Caol Uno via Unanimous Decision. Florian vs. Sherk should be an excellent fight and a classic BJJ vs. Wrestler type match. But don't get me wrong, both are more than just a basic BJJ practitioner and wrestler. Should be a barn burner and could look similar to Forrest/Tito with Florian fighting from his back, but action packed.

    The MW division is beginning to thin down with a possible challenger to Franklin's title. David Terrell vs. any of Anderson or Marquardt would be fantastic. But honestly, Anderson doesn't have the ground skills to keep up with Terrell. But if Terrell can't get him down, Anderson will pick him apart to the #1 contendership. Also, Marquardt/Terrell would be a fantastic ground fight and at the moment, I wouldn't know who to root for. I like Marquardt and can't stand Terrell, but Terrell is a fantastic talent and a beast when he's on his game. Loiseau vs. Swick is another match that has #1 contendership written on it. Swick finally gets a legit fighter in the UFC and Loiseau may just be too much for him. I haven't counted Swick out yet in any of his fights and I won't this time either.

    Actually, when I look at it, these 2 MW fights may be eliminator fights. The winners of both would end up meeting one another to decide who the true #1 contender is. I would have thought that Marquardt would be named the #1 contender, but he had a lack luster debut against Salaverry and had a very good fight against Doerksen at UFC 58....but it was Doerksen who made that fight exciting.

    There's also a rumor of Parisyan/Sanchez happening on this card as well.

    discuss

  17. #317
    Ballin' The Brothers Grimm's Avatar
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    I really can't see Babalu putting Liddell on his back too much. Better fighters have tried and failed. Liddell will knock him out.

    Obviously I'm rooting for hometown boy Kenny Florian to capture the LW title, and he's looked great recently. I'm putting my money on him.

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    Intercontinental Champion P Dandy's Avatar
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    I guess this puts an end to the Tito-Ken saga. Pitiful...

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    Midcarder SincereAgape's Avatar
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    Hopefully they'll fight again. The buildup and the pre-fight ceremonies were pretty cool still. I had goose bumps just waiting for them to go at it.

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    Team Bushido MMA The Slaughter Within's Avatar
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    K-Flo with gold, would be pretty good!

    Honestly, another Ortiz v. Shamrock fight would hurt the UFC and MMA as a whole. Ken just doesn't have enough time left. He needs to fight more top-name fighters with skill and win against them. If Tito keeps this up, he'll very likely be wearing gold around his waist come Super-Bowl weekend!

    Also......


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    Babalu has a legit chance at beating Liddell though. Should be fun.

    I wonder where Tito goes next?

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    Midcarder SincereAgape's Avatar
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    I wouldn't mind seeing Ortiz vs. Shamrock 3.

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    Intercontinental Champion P Dandy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Slaughter Within
    K-Flo with gold, would be pretty good!

    Honestly, another Ortiz v. Shamrock fight would hurt the UFC and MMA as a whole. Ken just doesn't have enough time left. He needs to fight more top-name fighters with skill and win against them. If Tito keeps this up, he'll very likely be wearing gold around his waist come Super-Bowl weekend!

    Also......


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    Quote Originally Posted by P Dandy

  26. #326
    Intercontinental Champion P Dandy's Avatar
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    Now this is how rubber matches are supposed to turn out. I always like those type of matches to last 5 rounds. A chess match between two evenly matched athletes
    Last edited by P Dandy; July 9th, 2006 at 12:50 AM.

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    The fight was awful. 3 rounds of them absolutely doing nothing. Its like they were both fighting not to win.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Rafael122
    The fight was awful. 3 rounds of them absolutely doing nothing. Its like they were both fighting not to win.

    I was actually catching the play by play on some MMA site. Didn't know it was that lackluster. It sounded like some decent stand up at the least. I guess it was a good decision to not order this one seeing as how Tito-Ken was short as hell.

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    Quote Originally Posted by P Dandy
    I was actually catching the play by play on some MMA site. Didn't know it was that lackluster. It sounded like some decent stand up at the least.
    Yeah trust me, you're much better off watching this on an episode of UFC Unleashed or something. The first two rounds were pretty good, but they both started to wear out and thats when they started the "fighting not to lose, but enough to show the judges that I havent quit" technique. UFC Heavyweight fights are not that great to begin with.

    The PPV overall was OK. Nothing great. Kinda underwhelming though with all the hype.

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    Snowman will destroy Sylvia, but I need to actually watch the fight, gotta wait till monday here, just so I can see what happened in the TS/AA fight, and the others!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rafael122

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    UFC 61 Play by PLay and results!


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    This UFC is definately one of the worst in the Zuffa era, up there with UFC 33....but it did look good on paper, but lackluster performances killed it



    enjoy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rafael122
    The fight was awful. 3 rounds of them absolutely doing nothing. Its like they were both fighting not to win.

    ummmmmmmm, championship fights are 5 rounds

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    Thanks I-K!

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Slaughter Within
    Snowman will destroy Sylvia, but I need to actually watch the fight, gotta wait till monday here, just so I can see what happened in the TS/AA fight, and the others!
    I'm gonna disagree with Monson "destroying" Sylvia. Have you ever seen anybody take Sylvia down? He has a tremendous sprawl and Monson would have a very tough time getting inside against Sylvia who can just paw at him with his long reach and the jab....setting up his infamous "1-2 combination". I'd give Monson a chance, but the fight doesn't appeal to me at the moment. They need to build Monson up and actually make him look like a contender, instead of putting him on an undercard....3-0 in the UFC, 2 fights on the undercard and the other being lackluster.

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    Reading the PbP, should have only been 3 rounds.

    So, pretty much half the year has been done for UFC so far,

    What was the best PPV of the Year Jan-July so far?

    For me it was USA v. Canada

    Mainly for 2 big reasons

    GSP being established as a star (any one hanging in there after getting beat hard in the first round, and getting a win over the tru WW champ, BJ Penn!)

    And the Franklin v. Louisou (sp?) fight was awesome. That's the way I love championship fights to go down if they are going to decision. That fight was 5 rounds of MMA fan dream!

    Also there were some good undercard matches there, esp, Yves Edwards getting upseted on hard!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Irish Kamikaze
    I'm gonna disagree with Monson "destroying" Sylvia. Have you ever seen anybody take Sylvia down? He has a tremendous sprawl and Monson would have a very tough time getting inside against Sylvia who can just paw at him with his long reach and the jab....setting up his infamous "1-2 combination". I'd give Monson a chance, but the fight doesn't appeal to me at the moment. They need to build Monson up and actually make him look like a contender, instead of putting him on an undercard....3-0 in the UFC, 2 fights on the undercard and the other being lackluster.
    True there! I have seen a lot of Monson's grappling matches, and I think he is very capable, but the big thing for him, to get by, would definately have to be overcoming that damn bloody long reach of Sylvia's. If he can get inside, it's going to be Monson all the way, but if Sylvia maintains his distance, I'll give it to him. Right now, I think it can live up to one of those fights, that no-one would give a damn about (casual fan wise) that can deliver the goods!

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    Franklin vs. Loiseau was too one-sided for me to be excited about. But Franklin breaking a hand and having a hairline fracture on his foot put Shane Douglas to shame. Loiseau had no business in the cage with Franklin and it was proven that night.

    UFC 60 gets my vote....why? Spencer Fisher via flying knee KO On top of that, we got to see a legend get beat down (Gracie), Lister debut and take out one of my favorite LHW's in the world (Sakara ), one of the sickest KO's in UFC history (Guillard over Davis), and Swick/Vera shining and cementing themselves as top contenders in their respective divisions

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Slaughter Within
    True there! I have seen a lot of Monson's grappling matches, and I think he is very capable, but the big thing for him, to get by, would definately have to be overcoming that damn bloody long reach of Sylvia's. If he can get inside, it's going to be Monson all the way, but if Sylvia maintains his distance, I'll give it to him. Right now, I think it can live up to one of those fights, that no-one would give a damn about (casual fan wise) that can deliver the goods!
    If this fight was to happen, it'd have to be during a double main event with Franklin headlining or during the Hughes/GSP II event....because Sylvia without Arlovski just can't carry on as a main event

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    Definatley tru there.

    UFC 60 was good, I missed a few bouts when it was on here in Iraq, thanks to jobs & radios needing to be fixed.

    If I get to see the whole thing, I might have to change my mind.......

  42. #342
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    If I had a bootleg copy of the event, I'd upload some fights for you....I'll see what I can do. UFC 60 was my first event back from deployment (UAE)....i'm in the Air Force.

    I'll upload more UFC 61 fights when I get a chance

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    Hey I-K,

    How was Randy on commentary in your opinion?

    I was reding that the commentary was boring since Rogan
    is "On Assignment" (maybe suspended for attacking the judges
    at the last UFN {Needed to happen anyways!})

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    Rogan does commentary for free....he just loves the UFC and he gets the best seat in the house.

    Couture wasn't bad, but Rogan was definately missed. I'm not saying that I want Goldberg/Couture to be the team from here on out, but I don't mind when Couture or any other fighter joins the broadcast team from time to time. Out of all the fighters who have ever done full event PBP's for the UFC, Phil Baroni was tits at UFC 42....he reminds me of Tazz with his energy and "Franklin blew his load" was a classic line

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    Can anyone post the spoilers for UFC 61? Been at work all night and could not watch it.

    Sorry just saw them disregard this.

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    Joe "Daddy" Stevenson" vs. Yves Edwards: http://www.sendspace.com/file/t13wms


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    Tim "the Maine-iac" Sylvia vs. Andrei "the Pitbull" Arlovski II: http://www.sendspace.com/file/pb32dw


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    Quote Originally Posted by The Slaughter Within
    Edit: Arg! Fine Slaughter.
    Last edited by P Dandy; July 9th, 2006 at 2:45 PM.

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    Not everyone has seen the show yet though, like me, I have to wait till noon on Monday!

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    I'm uploading the Mir/Christison fight right now....give me a few minutes

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    Dan Christison vs. Frank Mir: http://www.sendspace.com/file/mv60om


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    Quote Originally Posted by Irish Kamikaze
    Dan Christison vs. Frank Mir: http://www.sendspace.com/file/mv60om

    SO, So, TRUE!

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    Slaughter, are you able to access UFC Fights On Demand at the UFC page? If so, I recommend you order Alves/Noble. That fight solidifies that anything can happen in the UFC with a blink of an eye.

    I downloaded 3 fights I haven't seen before:
    - Alves/Noble
    - Sonnen/Horn
    - Lambert/MacDonald

    I am shocked that they don't have any of Fitch' fights on there. I think they are making him the best kept secret in the UFC

    Also, it has limited fights, but the 3 listed are fights that weren't shown on PPV and/or Unleashed. I really wanted to get Fisher/Wiman because I accidentally deleted it from my computer

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    Silva v Liddell.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slash
    Silva v Liddell.
    It's not cemented just yet. It'll be based on whether Liddell beats Babalu, which I don't think he will do this time around. Also, if Silva wins the OWGP, I think he'll drop out of the fight against Liddell as well.

    The announcement is nice, but it's not cemented. Remember back in the day when Pride announced that they were sending Fujita and Sakuraba to fight in the UFC? Yeah, I'm still waiting too....oh wait, Sakuraba is in K-1 Heroes now, so that won't happen. Fujita, he got steamrolled by a LHW.

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    Definately not written in stone, but how fantastic would a Silva/Liddell/Babalu series be?

    Not to mention Sylvia being asked about fighting Fedor and making it out to be like he'd be Fedor's toughest opponent yet. What a load of shit. Fedor would Zuluzinho him.

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    I think Silva/Babalu would be great as well....think of it as a revenge fight for Shogun during the IFC tournament.

    On paper, Sylvia looks to be a tough match up for Fedor....but he would be nowhere near his toughest opponent. I think Sylvia is a match up nightmare for Nogueira, but Fedor would definately be able to get Sylvia down and submit him....Nogueira lacks the takedowns, which could lead to his demise

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    Yeah, you might be right about Nog. He'd likely think he's some golden gloves prodigy and stay standing with Sylvia instead of just trying to lock up with him and drop into his guard. No doubt he could submit him once on the mat though.

    But then again I just don't like Sylvia. Think he's a mouthy bastard who's greatest skill is being 6'8 260 with a condor's wingspan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Irish Kamikaze
    Remember back in the day when Pride announced that they were sending Fujita and Sakuraba to fight in the UFC? Yeah, I'm still waiting too....oh wait, Sakuraba is in K-1 Heroes now, so that won't happen. Fujita, he got steamrolled by a LHW.
    Wow, just a few hours after posting this, Fujita has announced that he'll be Pride's HW representative for the November UFC card....Phil Baroni is rumored as well to be Pride's MW rep

    Probable match ups:
    - Chuck Liddell vs. Vanderlei Silva
    - Kazuyuki Fujita vs. TBA....Jeff Monson or Brandon Vera??
    - Phil Baroni vs. TBA....Chris Leben? They have a past
    Last edited by Irish Kamikaze; July 9th, 2006 at 10:03 PM.

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    About UFC 61....



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    Couple more minutes and I'll have Burkman/Neer up

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    Josh "Silly Nickname" Burkman vs. Josh "the Dentist" Neer: http://www.sendspace.com/file/tb7igr

  63. #363
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    Stevenson/Edwards was such a bloodbath... I don't get squeamish at much, but even I started to feel a little ill watching it

    Frank Mir put in a dismal performance - fat-ass gassed halfway through the first round

    Tito/Ken - ahahaha Ken, you sad old man. He needs to hang it up now. The fight wasn't stopped quite as prematurely as I thought, after seeing the replay. Tito's just too fast and too strong for Ken. Other than the massive amount of hype surrounding this "rivalry", what is there to be excited about with a Ortiz vs Shamrock 3, really? It's been shown twice that Shamrock is over the hill, or just out of Tito's league (probably both, really), so why would Shamrock go into a 3rd knowing that he's going to get humiliated again? I mean, I guess it would be cool to see Shamrock get his ass kicked again, but other than that, I see no redeeming value to Tito/Ken pt. 3.

    I thought the weigh-in for Tito/Ken was hilarious, though. Tito, for some strange reason, protesting to Dana White about Shamrock coming in at 206 lbs, and then weighing in at 206.5 lbs... ooops

    I thought Neer/Burkman was the most entertaining televised fight. Those two put on a decent show. Burkman got some great takedowns.

    Arlovski/Sylvia - .....oh boy

    Edit: Also, I'd like to just add that Arlovski's beard is just ridiculous. Most entertaining part of the fight
    Last edited by Dave M; July 10th, 2006 at 9:38 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave M
    It's been shown twice that Shamrock is over the hill, or just out of Tito's league (probably both, really), so why would Shamrock go into a 3rd knowing that he's going to get humiliated again?
    Male pride. He's always going to think he has a shot. But I agree, I do not look forward to part 3 if there is going to be one. I like Shammy, so I don't want to see him get massacred yet again. Put him up against a rook and try to use him to build someone.
    Last edited by P Dandy; July 10th, 2006 at 12:37 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by percussion13
    Definately not written in stone, but how fantastic would a Silva/Liddell/Babalu series be?

    Not to mention Sylvia being asked about fighting Fedor and making it out to be like he'd be Fedor's toughest opponent yet. What a load of shit. Fedor would Zuluzinho him.
    Calling him a "tiny little shit" was also funny. But to be fair he was legitimately talking about Fedor's size. He could have been less of a jackass about it but that's the way he's always going to be. It's going to be fun watching the "tiny little shit" knock him the fuck out.

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    Here is the link for the Tito/Shamrock part 2.

    The entire video and post fight. Missing the pre-fight which was the best part.

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    I'll see if I can rip the weigh-in footage. Which is pretty amusing.

    Here it is. About 9MB, and good for a laugh

    http://www.sendspace.com/file/elduu3
    Last edited by Dave M; July 10th, 2006 at 5:00 PM.

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    How do you Americans get to see Pride stuff?

    Is it shown on TV over there?

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    PPV

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    It'd be interesting to see if any dream matches actually go down. Pride does not test their fighters for enhancement drugs; however, NSAC requires testing. I'm just hoping hindrances like this don't disqualify anyone I would like to see. I just want to see Fedor, Silva, and Gomi outside of hightlight clips on youtube.
    Last edited by P Dandy; July 10th, 2006 at 9:26 PM.

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    P Dandy, invest in picking up a few dvd's from Suncoast, Best Buy, Tower Records, etc.

    As for the dream matches, I don't think that'll really truly happen. I don't expect the UFC to put their best fighters against those Pride is sending over. If Sylvia is scheduled to fight, I'm sure Pride would have CroCop to be their representative....and to showcase true world class striking

    Silva vs. Liddell is as good as we're gonna get on paper for the November event. I hope that they send a LW rep as well, either Hansen or Ishida

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    As far as dream matches go, I'd be very interested in seeing Ortiz vs Arlovski, Diego Sanchez vs Matt Hughes and Rich Franklin vs Chris Leben.

  73. #373
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    Quote Originally Posted by P Dandy
    It'd be interesting to see if any dream matches actually go down. Pride does not test their fighters for enhancement drugs; however, NSAC requires testing. I'm just hoping hindrances like this don't disqualify anyone I would like to see. I just want to see Fedor, Silva, and Gomi outside of hightlight clips on youtube.
    You can buy them for fairly cheap on some discount retailer websites. I just purchased volume 3 of the Pride Legacy series (12-16) and Body Blow for just under 27 bucks (or 4.50 for each event) @ www.deepdiscountdvd.com

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    Joe Rogan, not only does it for free, but he is not a very popular person within the organization, specifically the fighters. I live in Davenport, and watch Hughes and Tim, train/spar at Pat's Gym. Something was said to the affect by an on looker to Tim about Rogan, and he says that he's a arrogant wannabe UFC fighter, which we thought was humerous. It's nice too see some of you guys giving Tim some respect, as the Iowa boys don't get shit for respect from the fans. I think he can go through Monson, but I do beleive Monson is very dangerous, and could pull it out, but Tim is fighting very smart lately, so I give him the nod.

  75. #375
    woof... Dave M's Avatar
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    I'm not saying that you're wrong or anything, but how does one fighter saying that about Rogan equate to the entire organization hating him?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave M
    I'm not saying that you're wrong or anything, but how does one fighter saying that about Rogan equate to the entire organization hating him?
    In all honesty, Sylvia has been an ass in all of his interviews lately. He's trying to be cocky, but he comes off looking like a complete idiot. I can't stand the guy out of the cage, but wins are wins....he's the champ, gotta respect that.

  77. #377
    Intercontinental Champion P Dandy's Avatar
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    Yeah, I'm definitely going to pick one up this Friday at Fry's. Hopefully they carry some.

    One question I have is are there ever boring matches on a Pride event. I just heard they fine fighters for shit like lay and pray.

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    Team Bushido MMA The Slaughter Within's Avatar
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    I really hav'nt seen to many boring matches in PRIDE.

    I just ordered the first three Legacy volumes, can't wait for them to get here!

  79. #379
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Slaughter Within
    I really hav'nt seen to many boring matches in PRIDE.

    I just ordered the first three Legacy volumes, can't wait for them to get here!
    you haven't seen any Arona and/or Paulo Filho fights?

  80. #380
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    David Terrell vs. Yushin Okami has been announced for UFC 62

    A Few UFN 6 Fights August 17th Announced:
    - Karo Parisyan vs. Diego Sanchez
    - Jonathan Goulet vs. Josh Koscheck

    rumored:
    - Michael Bisping vs. TBA

    After UFN 6 is the premier of TUF 4: the Comeback
    Last edited by Irish Kamikaze; July 13th, 2006 at 7:10 PM.

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    But it's still only a small sample of matches. Yeah, every promotion is going to get a boring match every now and then, but PRIDE v. UFC on the "Boring Match Radar" is like comparing a B-1 with a A-10, Both can be awesome as shit, but you know when the UFC (A-10) is coming, and you know it's going to bring at least one, maybe two boring ass matches with it everytime. When PRIDE comes around (B-1) you never know what it's packing, but it just may contain a boring ass bomb of a match.

    Personally, from what I've seen of Bushido, you can't go wrong there, lot's of good fights..... and maybe a couple of lousy ones.


    UFC 61 had a lot of potential to deliver, on paper anyways. Frank Mir used to be one of my favorite HW. Rare to see HW with sub skills like his, but his accident took a lot out of his game, damn dissapointment really, and I hope he gets his lard ass in gear, that belt is HIS, but the way he looks now, he's not even in the same league as Gabriel Gonzaga or that guy that GG fought last november (you know that fight, worst one in UFC history, they even got lectured for not fighting.......)

    AA v. TS was god awful, and makes me wonder if AA is as hyped as the fans make him out to be. You and I both know that they will fight again and again until someone comes into the fold (please god MIR or Christianson) and fast.

    KS v. Tito was exactly like I thought it was going to be, just not that short. I'll admit that having problems with refs in the promotions my fighters fight in and having this happen once when my guy had control in the guard (ref stopping the fight way to fast) vs one of my other guys getting his ass beat hardway for 3 minutes and no ref stoppage at all (took a while for the blood to really show till he tapped due to strikes). Same ref, two different shows.

    Now when my guy had the early stoppage it was bull, but he was defending himself good and attempting a sweep once and omoplata.

    What I saw Shamrock do, was get hit with a nice elbow, get knocked out briefly (you can tell by the way he went stiff for like half a second, not limp like Tito said) snap out of it, and flail his arms without covering up. My opinion as a coach and manager is that it was a good call.


    Oh well

    /RANT OFF

  82. #382
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Slaughter Within
    UFC 61 had a lot of potential to deliver, on paper anyways. Frank Mir used to be one of my favorite HW. Rare to see HW with sub skills like his, but his accident took a lot out of his game, damn dissapointment really, and I hope he gets his lard ass in gear, that belt is HIS, but the way he looks now, he's not even in the same league as Gabriel Gonzaga or that guy that GG fought last november (you know that fight, worst one in UFC history, they even got lectured for not fighting.......)
    On UFC Unleashed last night, they showed the Frank Mir vs. Pete Williams fight from a few years ago. Mir submits him via a nasty-looking arm bar early in the first round. He looks like a totally different person in that fight compared to today

    It really sucks - I hope he can get his head back in the game and get back into shape.

  83. #383
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    I was so sad to here Ken lost. I wanted him to win,just so he could prove to himself and everyone else hes still got it. Sad to see him loose and so quick.

  84. #384
    Intercontinental Champion P Dandy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irish Kamikaze
    David Terrell vs. Yushin Okami has been announced for UFC 62

    A Few UFN 6 Fights August 17th Announced:
    - Karo Parisyan vs. Diego Sanchez
    - Jonathan Goulet vs. Josh Koscheck

    rumored:
    - Michael Bisping vs. TBA

    After UFN 6 is the premier of TUF 4: the Comeback
    Chris Leben is fighting again in August against Jorge Santiago.

  85. #385
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    Here's a short interview with Herb Dean courtesy of Sherdog!

    The more raucous boos on Saturday’s UFC 61: “Bitter Rivals” card were reserved for referee Herb Dean (Pictures), who oversaw the second confrontation between rivals Ken Shamrock (Pictures) and Tito Ortiz (Pictures).

    Months of hype and harsh words were distilled into just 78 seconds of action when Dean halted the bout after Shamrock received a series of elbows from Ortiz. Though Shamrock appeared listless and unable to stop the attack, his casual post-fight demeanor incited the roughly 12,400 in attendance to direct their ire at Dean.

    “I stopped the fight because he received five elbows without any attempt to defend himself,” Dean explained to Sherdog.com Tuesday afternoon. “I believe he was unconscious. I think he was out with the first one.”

    After a brief scuffle, Ortiz deposited Shamrock on his back and used arching elbows to deliver five clean strikes directly to Shamrock’s face. “At that critical time, he was unable to defend himself,” Dean recounted. “I was certain of that. I can’t think of another reason to take five elbows without doing anything else.”

    Once Dean separated the athletes, Shamrock popped up and appeared to be unfazed by the barrage.

    “I can’t be accountable for how fast he’s going to recover,” Dean said.

    Upon review of the fight and consulting with the Nevada State Athletic Commission, Dean believes he made the right — if not popular — choice.

    “The commission believed it was a good call,” the referee said. “I’m not popular right now, but I don’t think it was a bad call. I hated to see the fight end like that. I’ll let guys go as long as they’re able to fight back. But at that point, he wasn’t.

    “I’m going to have to make calls that people aren’t going to be happy about. That’s my job. I can’t do what everyone else wants. It’s my conscience.”

    Vacationing with family this week, Shamrock was unavailable for comment.

  86. #386
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manipu1ative
    I was so sad to here Ken lost. I wanted him to win,just so he could prove to himself and everyone else hes still got it. Sad to see him loose and so quick.
    He lost "it" back at UFC 9

    Pride OWGP Semi's are set up as well:
    - Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira vs. Josh Barnett
    - CroCop vs. Vanderlei Silva II

    ^ discuss
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave M
    Mir submits him via a nasty-looking arm bar early in the first round.
    it's an elbow lock, but some people throw out "shoulder lock" from time to time. Very nasty looking indeed and extremely painful....according to Williams' crying out in pain

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    Here's some more info from Sherdog concerning Liddel v. Silva


    July 14, 2006
    by Josh Gross (joshg@sherdog.com)

    Since Saturday, when it was announced PRIDE champion Wanderlei Silva (Pictures) would fight UFC champion Chuck Liddell (Pictures) in November, speculation has run rampant as to the motivations of mixed martial arts’ most prominent promoters, which after three years finally agreed to what appears to be this sport’s first true world title bout.

    While the path towards Dana White’s decision remains cloudy, PRIDE’s reasoning has become clear.

    As little as two months ago, PRIDE reigned atop the MMA heap. It had launched the largest tournament of the year; been awarded a date to promote its first Stateside card; enjoyed a prosperous deal with its Japanese broadcast partner; and held in its stable the finest collection of mixed martial artists in the world.

    The probability, it seemed, of PRIDE and UFC — and thus many of the world’s preeminent fighters — coming together was so small, it could only be found through quantum mechanics.

    But then allegations began to spread about PRIDE’s top brass being involved with shady figures in the Japanese underworld. The press was bad and Fuji TV, due in large measure to its own set of unfortunate events, flipped the switch on PRIDE, removing anything from the ship it perceived as a drag. Adding insult to injury, for the first time in a long time a top-tier fighter, Quinton Jackson (Pictures), fled to another organization during his free agency period.

    Yet, said one high-ranking PRIDE executive, through adversity comes opportunity.

    Though many on the outside saw Fuji TV’s severed relationship with PRIDE as the death knell for the promotion, those on the inside believed that a unique opportunity had presented itself.

    No longer hamstrung by television executives that often had as much say in matchmaking as PRIDE officials, DSE was free to do what it wished.

    Believing the UFC holds an estimated 70 to 80 percent of the American market share, said the same PRIDE official, the promoter had two options if it wanted to flourish while establishing itself in the U.S.: Strike a deal with the No. 1 company or partner with its competitors.

    With new kids on the block — Strikeforce, the World Fighting Alliance (which signed Jackson away from PRIDE) and the International Fight League (which continues to be embroiled in lawsuits with the UFC) — and established events — King of the Cage, et al — grappling for the remaining market share, PRIDE moved for the latter.

    That meant a serious discussion was underway to send one of the best fighters in the organization’s history to battle someone of equal standing on the other side of the world. Just a month ago, a deal was struck.

    It’s basic Marketing 101 stuff, said the PRIDE executive.

    If the UFC’s presence in America was about half of what it is today, an alliance with the third and fourth competitors (PRIDE considers itself the second biggest MMA promoter that does business in the U.S.) might have paid off. But since the Las Vegas-based company has so effectively branded UFC as mixed martial arts in this country, the smart move was to work directly with Zuffa.

    Relative to what it could gain — an increased market share from 18 to somewhere near 25 percent, DSE said — PRIDE appears to be risking very little.

    Silva remains under exclusive PRIDE contract, meaning he fights where and when DSE officials tell him. The UFC will pay his purse in November. And a loss would not officially remove him from the belt.

    The UFC, it seems, is the one gambling in this scenario.

    It was widely reported that the UFC again topped the Yahoo! Buzz charts after Saturday’s UFC 61 Pay-Per-View, yet few mentioned that because of his presence on the broadcast the number of searches on Wanderlei Silva (Pictures) increased an astronomical 444 percent — head and shoulders the biggest gain of any search on Yahoo! related to the UFC.

    For an organization that has struggled to market itself to the American audience, last weekend, from an awareness standpoint, may well have been worth the decision on its own.

    Over the past six days Silva has received far more attention in the U.S. than he ever had before, and PRIDE is the company that will reap the early returns with its Open-Weight Grand Prix Pay-Per-View on September 10.

    More important, the PRIDE executive explained, if this arrangement works the way DSE hopes it will, the Japanese company will have insured its future for the next 20 to 30 years while establishing its legacy as a standard bearer when people look back in a century’s time.

    And what does the UFC gain? If Liddell wins, a ton of credibility. But should he falter, a Super Bowl mega card the company has tabbed as its first 1 million-plus Pay-Per-View could fall into peril. Though some have speculated this is an opportunity for the UFC to increase its presence on WOWOW!, the promotion’s Japanese broadcast partner, that hardly seems worth the roll of the dice.

    Yes, Silva will fight Liddell on the UFC’s home turf under rules preferred by the UFC. There won’t be a co-promotion. All profits will belong to Zuffa.

    But is this all that Zuffa has garnered because of this monumental agreement?

    That is one of many questions that remain about the genesis of Liddell vs. Silva and why, at this moment in the sport’s history, these two promotions have come together.

    One thing is clear, however: competition breeds innovation. And that is a good thing, for everyone involved, particularly PRIDE.

  88. #388
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    Here's a copy and paste of Zach Arnold's rebuttal to Sherdog's article from www.fightopinion.com

    Developing revisionist history

    By Zach Arnold

    On Friday, Josh Gross wrote an article on Sherdog titled Liddell vs. Silva: Why now? talking about the upcoming co-promotional matchmaking between PRIDE & UFC. The PRIDE source Gross quotes (and doesn’t dispute in the article) is engaged in amazing spin-doctoring, to the point that you start laughing at the claims being made. History and facts show a completely different story than the one being spread through official channels.

    The first factually-questionable quote:

    Though many on the outside saw Fuji TV’s severed relationship with PRIDE as the death knell for the promotion, those on the inside believed that a unique opportunity had presented itself.

    No longer hamstrung by television executives that often had as much say in matchmaking as PRIDE officials, DSE was free to do what it wished.

    That meant a serious discussion was underway to send one of the best fighters in the organization’s history to battle someone of equal standing on the other side of the world. Just a month ago, a deal was struck.

    Nobody truly believes that people inside of PRIDE are happy about losing free TV media exposure. The credibility of this statement would be the equivalent of MLB losing their TV deal with FOX and stating that even though they lost billions of USD, they have “creative freedom” to do what they want.

    1. Let’s quote a couple of sentences from this week’s Figure Four Weekly online newsletter:

    Those in PRIDE were unaware that anything was going down and were just as surprised as everyone else when Wanderlei showed up in the ring (morale in the company is said to be at an all-time low for a number of reasons).

    On the surface, if this truly is the “ALL OUT WAR” that PRIDE claims, this looks to be an indication of major problems. Traditionally, interpromotional wars start when one promotion is going under, and usually by the time the dust is settled their fate is sealed.

    2. Let’s touch upon the claim made in the F4W newsletter regarding interpromotional scenarios with Japanese companies. As I touched upon in a previous posting, 1995 saw the biggest interpromotional feud of all-time in Japan as New Japan feuded against Nobuhiko Takada (ironically, the man who is the face of PRIDE right now) & UWF-International. The end result of that interpromotional war? New Japan made over $20 million USD on three Tokyo Dome shows, UWF-International got buried, and only Takada got protected somewhat.

    Recent history in Japan also shows us what the impact of losing TV can do to a company and how the idea of interpromotional feuding is viewed as a last-ditch effort to save a company. In 2000, All Japan faced a “company split” with Mitsuharu Misawa taking most of the wrestlers from All Japan (who were all under contract to Nippon TV) and formed his own company in NOAH. All Japan was left with Toshiaki Kawada, Steve Williams, Stan Hansen, Taiyo Kea, and Masa Fuchi. The “split” created massive chaos in All Japan, as they no longer had a TV deal and had bookings still planned at Nippon Budokan (a 16,000-seat building) in Tokyo. Without TV exposure and TV money, All Japan immediately resorted to bringing in free agent Gen’ichiro Tenryu (who betrayed the company in 1990 by leaving All Japan to go to “money pro-wrestling” league SWS) to try to pop a house at Budokan.

    After one Nippon Budokan show, Masa Fuchi ended up appearing in the New Japan ring at Ryogoku Kokugikan during a G-1 show to announce that he wanted All Japan to work with New Japan. The first of these interpromotional matches saw Masa Chono (NJ) go over on Masa Fuchi (AJ) in September of 2000 at Nippon Budokan. In October of 2000, Toshiaki Kawada faced Kensuke Sasaki in the NJ ring at the Tokyo Dome in a big-money match. Also, Chono & Tenzan & Hiro Saito jobbed to Shiro Koshinaka (an NJ wrestler, nonetheless), Masa Fuchi, & Toshiaki Kawada in a 6-man tag in Nagoya in the All Japan ring. A week later, Tenryu defeated Kawada to win the Triple Crown at Budokan. In December of 2000, Fuchi & Kawada faced off against Yuji Nagata & Takashi Iizuka of New Japan in the NJ ring in Osaka in a draw. This match took place days after All Japan tanked at Nippon Budokan for their Real World Tag League finals with Steve Williams & Mike Rotunda defeating Toshiaki Kawada & Masa Fuchi. One of the big blow-offs for the feud happened when Kawada & Sasaki had a re-match in January of 2001 at the Tokyo Dome. While New Japan cooperated with All Japan somewhat on shows in 2001, everything came to a halt in January of 2002 when New Japan’s Keiji Mutoh jumped ship with Satoshi Kojima to go to All Japan (and eventually absorb the company).

    Throughout the entire period of the New Japan/All Japan interpromotional relationship, it was a case of one company (NJ) having to carry and build up All Japan the entire time. New Japan ultimately made more money on the deal, and All Japan was left stuck in the same position it was in the first place (no free TV deal - only on GAORA on cable, running out of dream matches to promote). The idea of interpromotional feuds has long been a staple of the Japanese pro-wrestling industry, especially for companies struggling to do any sort of domestic business and running out of ideas on how to save their own company. Once you play the trump card of interpromotional matches, that’s it. There’s nowhere else to go. For MMA fans online who continue to bash others who try to talk about Japanese pro-wrestling and MMA in the same context, it is historically and factually important to study both industries to understand how the Japanese business mindset works.
    3. The claim by the PRIDE source (in the Sherdog article) that DSE was hamstrung by Fuji TV is very debatable. Why is it debatable? The chief producer of Fuji TV broadcasts of PRIDE events was Kunio Kiyohara. Kiyohara was so closely aligned with PRIDE boss Nobuyuki Sakakibara that when the PRIDE/Fuji TV scandal occured (resulting in Fuji TV yanking PRIDE shows off the network), it was Kiyohara who was demoted from his job as chief producer for Fuji TV and re-assigned elsewhere in the FujiSankei conglomerate. The idea that Kiyohara was a combative force creatively for PRIDE is a questionable claim, at best.

    The amount of money and advertising that Fuji TV invested into PRIDE was enormous. PRIDE was a serious moneymaking operation that drew big ratings. For someone to claim that Fuji TV dropping them was actually a positive move is jawdropping.

    Finally, let’s close out this post with another quote from the Sherdog article:

    More important, the PRIDE executive explained, if this arrangement works the way DSE hopes it will, the Japanese company will have insured its future for the next 20 to 30 years while establishing its legacy as a standard bearer when people look back in a century’s time.

    The reality is that you don’t ask to book an interpromotional feud with your rival unless the wheels are coming off (see: UWF-International & All Japan). Interpromotional feuds are often last-ditch efforts to save a company that is falling apart. Notice that in the Sherdog article it states that UFC is paying the salary of Vanderlei Silva for the proposed November fight against Chuck Liddell. PRIDE’s decision was clearly about finding a money mark that could help keep their operation surviving and not die a painful death.

    The impact of losing Fuji TV was a devastating blow for PRIDE. All one needs to do is to refer to what PRIDE boss Nobuyuki Sakakibara said at the infamous June 7th press conference in regards to how PRIDE got dumped by Fuji TV in the first place. Anyone who watched the Japanese version of the PRIDE telecast on SkyPerfecTV did notice some differences in production-values. Without having Fuji TV’s mega-slick production technology at hand, it made a noticeable difference. The spin-doctoring of PRIDE’s health as an organization right now is something that needs to be challenged by everyone - the media, the fans, and people doing business with the company right now.

  89. #389
    Cam Neely is a pussy Jobber to the stars's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irish Kamikaze
    He lost "it" back at UFC 9

    Pride OWGP Semi's are set up as well:
    - Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira vs. Josh Barnett
    - CroCop vs. Vanderlei Silva II

    ^ discuss
    I think those should be some pretty good matchups. Personally, as unlikely as it might be I'd like to see a Barnett and Silva final and for Barnett to win just to piss off everyone at the sherdog forums.

  90. #390
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    Just think of what we have to see if Chuck does lose the belt to Ronato "Babalu" Sobral at UFC 62. We will truely have the battle of the nicknames. Also, I figure that is the pay-per-view that both Mike Bisping and Kendell Grove will make their debuts at, but that is only speculation!

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    Bonnar vs. Griffin II: UFC 62

    http://sports.bostonherald.com/ufc/v...ticleid=148499
    What’s your next step after dropping a closely contested, high-profile decision in a potentially breakthrough bout? Well, if you’re Stephan Bonnar or Forrest Griffin, you get back to basics.

    It just so happens that getting back to basics for these two UFC tough guys means squaring off in the octagon against each other. That’s what the light heavyweights will do at UFC 62 on Aug. 26, re-creating their action-packed showdown from April 2005 in the Ultimate Fighter Season 1 final. That match, which ended in a close decision for Griffin but six-figure UFC contracts for both men, was one of the best fights of ’05.
    They will not be able to relive the magic they had last year. This fight, I think these guys will be timid and not come out swinging....though I hope they do

    On paper, UFC 62 is looking fantastic

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    Intercontinental Champion P Dandy's Avatar
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    I think Sobral-Chuck would have sold the PPV by itself. I think they should have held off on this for a PPV where the main event is less than spectacular. For example, main events like Franklin-Quarry.

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    They can't risk not to do the fight at the moment. Both are coming off losses....one being razor thin, the other being lackluster.

    Also, I don't think Dana thinks that Liddell/Babalu will sell alone. Yeah, Liddell has sold ppv's before, but those fights were against Tito and Couture. Babalu is a whole new element to the non-casual MMA fan. But the new fans do recognize Forrest/Bonnar and have seen their first fight. That will be the fight they will buy the ppv to see....like Tito/Shamrock. People didn't order the ppv because of Arlovski/Sylvia III

  94. #394
    GP OG Percussion's Avatar
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    maldives
    Looks as though Phil Baroni's name has been added to the Pride/UFC shenanigans. Nothing to write home about, but the mounds of shit he'll talk about UFC and such should be good for a chuckle.

    Quite an exciting few months for MMA fans to look forward to.

    In Ausgust:
    Pride Bushido 183-pound Quarterfinal
    UFC 62 - Liddell vs. Sobral, Griffin vs. Bonnar, and Sean Sherk

    In September:
    Pride Open Weight Grand Prix Final - Nogueira vs. Barnett, Cro-Cop vs. Silva, Winner vs. Winner, and Mauricio "Shogun" Rua returns
    UFC 63 - Hughes vs. St.Pierre

    In October:
    UFC 64 - Franklin likely defending, Sylvia likely defending, and B.J. Penn
    Pride in Las Vegas - Shogun vs. Coleman II, and (hopefully) a Fedor title defense

    In November:
    UFC 65 - (if all the planets align) Liddell vs. Silva, and Fujita & Baroni repping Pride vs. UFC

    So it's not all written in stone, but a pretty fair assesment of the next four months. Not to mention the IFL and WFA events. So yeah, discuss away.

    BTW, how's about changing the thread title to "MMA" or something along those lines. Threads for each organization would drown and there's so much more going on, obviously, than UFC. Just a thought.

  95. #395
    Team Bushido MMA The Slaughter Within's Avatar
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    Here's a good read from SI!

    I was at Mix Lounge, on the 64th floor of The Hotel at the Mandalay Bay in Las Vegas. It was around 9 p.m., and the lights on the neighboring Luxor pyramid were starting to shoot up the sides and up into the night. This was early June. I was chatting with a group of people, which included a guy who promoted events at the MGM Grand.
    "Tell me something," someone asked the MGM guy. (Pardon me if the details are vague, but this was one of those cocktail parties where the drinks were brought around with greater speed and frequency than the food.)
    "Yes?" the MGM guy said.
    "Do you think Ultimate Fighting will ever be bigger than boxing?"
    The MGM guy smiled.
    "It already is," he said. "I mean, we love Oscar De La Hoya. But unless it's him, Ultimate Fighting is already bigger than boxing."
    This is the sort of news you pretty much have to hear direct from the source, because within the sports world, Ultimate Fighting and other mixed martial arts organizations remains the monster in the closet. You will not see mixed martial arts competitions on network television. I have not seen any highlights on SportsCenter. Or in the agate section of most local sports pages. Or very much in the magazine I work for.
    Plenty of fringe sports carry on without mainstream attention. But in UFC's case, I would guess its time will come, and possibly quite soon.
    This past weekend Yahoo reported that UFC was one of its top five most popular searches, after a pay-per-view event from Las Vegas featuring a match between Ken Shamrock and Tito Ortiz. Not only did the event sell out live in Las Vegas, but three auxiliary viewing sights had to be set up to handle fan demand. These fans tend to be young and male, the kind advertisers covet. Usually when people in that demographic decide they are interested in something, the media follow. Hard.
    But mixed martial arts stays in the closet, because there is no sport that has a greater disconnect between the way its fans and its non-fans perceive it.

  96. #396
    woof... Dave M's Avatar
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    Anyone know what tickets typically cost for a UFC event? I'm hopng to go to Vegas one day in the near future, and if I can afford it, it'd be cool to have the trip coincide with a UFC PPV.

  97. #397
    12th Man
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave M
    Anyone know what tickets typically cost for a UFC event? I'm hopng to go to Vegas one day in the near future, and if I can afford it, it'd be cool to have the trip coincide with a UFC PPV.
    UFC 62, the ticket prices range from $750 (floor) - $100 (nose bleed)

    source: ticketmaster.com

    I expect the ticket prices to go up more and more as events go by....it also depends on the main event as well.

  98. #398
    Banned PMBR's Avatar
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    Those prices are ridiculous considering that these are bi-monthly events.

  99. #399
    woof... Dave M's Avatar
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    Hmm... that is pretty pricey. Maybe it's due to them mostly taking place in smaller venues (i.e. casinos). I could afford maybe $100/ticket, but no way I would ever pay more than that.

  100. #400
    Team Bushido MMA The Slaughter Within's Avatar
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    Get mine for free......... But if I were to pay, it would have to be a damn good card on tap....

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