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Thread: Official US Football (soccer) Thread

  1. #301
    Pissed Off MTR's Avatar
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    I just did a search and read some bits and pieces without actually clicking on anything and saw where he plays for the U-17 team and saw stuff on him on the mls site. Anyway when I have some more time I am going to have to read up.

  2. #302
    Simon
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    U17s? Christ, we need a leader not some fucking kid

  3. #303
    Ballin' The Brothers Grimm's Avatar
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    Then you want LanDo.

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    Awesinine. Dan The Man's Avatar
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    Also not heard of him, but it seems he's certainly quite young... I'll give him that... some of the U-17 stuff is impressive as well...

    NAME: Guillermo Gonzalez
    POSITION: Midfielder
    HEIGHT: 5-11 WEIGHT: 145
    BIRTHDATE: January 4, 1986
    HOMETOWN: Paramount, California


    Professional
    2003: 6/21 made professional debut, playing final 20 minutes in 1-0 loss @ MET ... 6/30 ... played final 16 minutes in 3-0 Galaxy defeat of Burn at The Home Depot Center ... 9/27 played final four minutes, registering one shot in 2-1 loss vs. KC ... 10/11 earned first career MLS start in 2-1 OT loss @ KC ... 10/18 played final three minutes of LA's 3-0 victory vs. SJ in Carson


    U.S. National Team
    Joined the U.S. in residency in September, 2001 ... Now in his third semester in U.S. Soccer's Full-Time Residency Program ...
    2003: A member of the U.S. Under-17 national team, Gonzalez helped the squad qualify for the 2003 FIFA Under-17 World Championship on Finland from August 13-30 ... During qualifying in Guatemala, Gonzalez led the U.S. to 2-1-0 record, including wins over Jamaica (3-0) and Guatemala (3-0) and a tie against El Salvador (1-1) ... Registered a goal and assist ...
    2002: The Under-17s leading scorer ... Tallied 21 goals and seven assists in his first 45 games of 2002 ... Scored eight goals in his first 20 internationals ... Tallied a team-leaing three international assists ... Scored in four straight international matches in March 2002 ... Scored 11 goals across 12 games from March 6 - April 20, 2002 ... 2001: Dished out four assists with the U-17s from October - December, 2001 ... A member of the U.S. Under-16 National Team in 2001 ...
    2000: A member of the U.S. Under-14s in 2000 ... Traveled with the Under-14s to Mexico in 2000

  5. #305
    Ballin' The Brothers Grimm's Avatar
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    You guys need to get Champo. My footie knowledge owns yours.

  6. #306
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    Not exactly hard for us to find info though.

  7. #307
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    That is true. Are they going to be showing the qualifiers, or not? I caught the first game against Grenada, but missed the seocnd.

  8. #308
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Brothers Grimm
    That is true. Are they going to be showing the qualifiers, or not? I caught the first game against Grenada, but missed the seocnd.
    I am not sure. I think it will just depend on what is going on at the same time as those matches. I am hoping they will show all of them but then again we played in the Confederations Cup and Gold Cup and did not have a single match on tv from what I can remember.

  9. #309
    Simon
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    In my Champo he has 3 goals in 11 caps, he's 18.

  10. #310
    Awesinine. Dan The Man's Avatar
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    I would say they are going to show all six group games. Granted, by the time the later ones start coming around, we'll be getting into dangerous sports territory (ie. baseball postseason and NFL regular season) but ESPN doesn't have the rights to all that many baseball games and unless they're going to start playing late at night, the NFL shouldn't be a problem as it pertains to ESPN either.

    Unless the brilliant programming directors decide a sixth straight Baseball Tonight is more important... or they just might turn Sunday NFL Countdown into Friday, Saturday, and Sunday NFL Countdown, from 1pm Friday straight through to the games...

    It's not that far-fetched, when you think about it... but yeah, I think ESPN has realized that there is a devoted following for National Team games, and I expect all MNT games will be more likely to be televised than not. That's most evident in the fact that the Poland match (July 11th, 7pm EST) is going to be televised. There's no way a friendly against Poland gets televised a few years ago, and hopefully there's no way they televise that instead of World Cup qualifying games.

  11. #311
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    That is the problem though you never know what the hell ESPN is going to do from one week or even day to the next. To me all qualifying games should be on tv no matter who covers them. As far as friendies go if other stuff is going on then do a tape delay or something. I feel tournament games need to be on tv too.

  12. #312
    Awesinine. Dan The Man's Avatar
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    The problem with tournament games, I would assume, is that the ratings for non-US games are probably very, very low. And so they're toeing a line between covering a tournament and covering a team. Because what happens when the US lose in say the semis of a tournament. Surely the network should show the Final game anyway, but they'll be hammered ratings-wise. But you can imagine the uproar from what little audience it would have, if they had been following the tournament and not get to see the final game. It's a lose-lose for them.

    And for us.

  13. #313
    Awesinine. Dan The Man's Avatar
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    My problem, however, is with Fox Sports World's absolutely shit coverage of Euro 2004. You cannot tell me that showing four games over two weeks of time does anyone any good. I don't even know what their schedule is for the knockout games, but frankly, I don't really want to know. The European Championships of soccer are being played, and you're trying to tell me that showing two French matches (and not the England/France match) and two Swedish matches even counts as coverage? Fuck that, and fuck FSW.

    PS: Oh, and thanks for showing that one Premiereship game a week, three days delayed. That's real helpful.

  14. #314
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    See I don't even got Fox Sports World so I don't even get to see any fucking Premiership games unless there is nothing else on the Fox Sports Midwest and they decide to show the weekly Premiership game.

    As far as tournament games go they should show any game involving the US and then they could pick and choose the rest. Once the US was out well then they would probably just do the final like you said. Unfortunately that means shit for ratings more than likely. Yeah the coverage of Euro 2004 has been shit and just plain wrong.

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    USA moved to an all time high of 7 on the FIFA World Rankings and Greece of course made a huge jump after winning the European Championship.

  16. #316
    You're rather attractive aenima's Avatar
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    Wooo, back up to eighth.

    But how Spain are still in third after that atrocious display at the Euros I don't know.

  17. #317
    Awesinine. Dan The Man's Avatar
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    7th? Oh man, you've got to be kidding me... even I can't take that...



    In related news...

    STILL BETTER THAN ENGLAND!

    #7 IN THE WORLD. END OF.

  18. #318
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    Well you know it is because of our great performance in the first round of WC qualifying.

  19. #319
    You're rather attractive aenima's Avatar
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    Meh. Spain are third.

  20. #320
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    Quote Originally Posted by aenima
    Meh. Spain are third.
    I don't quite understand that either. I know that is based on matches over the last 8 years and all but recent stuff affects you more than past stuff. Plus your performances in your tournaments like that affect you too. So I don't know. I don't pretend to understand that stupid system.

  21. #321
    You're rather attractive aenima's Avatar
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    Things like friendlies and matches against nations that it's impossible to pronounce are used in the points accumulation which for me automatically deems the rankings pointless. There's a full documentation of ranking procedures here - http://www.fifa.com/en/mens/statisti...2540,3,00.html

    If you can get through all that without needing a lengthy break then you're a better man than I am. I'm still in the middle of one which I started some time last year.

  22. #322
    Pissed Off MTR's Avatar
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    I did read that. Well, I started it anyway and gave up.

  23. #323
    Awesinine. Dan The Man's Avatar
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    Today's game (vs. Poland) is now slated to start at 6.55pm, because ESPN decided they weren't doing enough to make it a pain in the ass to watch American soccer in America.

    PS: If Clint Mathis plays and Brian Ching doesn't, I will... well, I guess I'll be mad and stuff...

  24. #324
    You are my Solskjaer Matt E's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aenima
    Meh. Spain are third.
    I suppose this summer aside they've at least been fairly consistant. Aside from France, Brazil and now Greece who's really done more over the past 6 years? They made it to the knockouts in '96, '98, '00 and '02, which is more than England, Holland, Italy, Germany, Czech Rep and a lot of other nations

  25. #325
    Pissed Off MTR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan The Man
    Today's game (vs. Poland) is now slated to start at 6.55pm, because ESPN decided they weren't doing enough to make it a pain in the ass to watch American soccer in America.

    PS: If Clint Mathis plays and Brian Ching doesn't, I will... well, I guess I'll be mad and stuff...
    6pm???? What the hell? I thought it was an earlier game and coming on soon. Shit I am going to have company around that time. Ugh!

  26. #326
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt E
    I suppose this summer aside they've at least been fairly consistant. Aside from France, Brazil and now Greece who's really done more over the past 6 years? They made it to the knockouts in '96, '98, '00 and '02, which is more than England, Holland, Italy, Germany, Czech Rep and a lot of other nations
    Yeah but didn't Spain miss the knockouts in one of the last two World Cups?

  27. #327
    The Pride of the Midlands Prototype16's Avatar
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    Yeah, in 1998 they went out in the group stages, to Paraguay

    Spain's record really isn't that impressive, they haven't reached the semi finals of any recent major tournament- even England have managed that

  28. #328
    Awesinine. Dan The Man's Avatar
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    1-1 to the Champions, but I kept getting these weird feelings throughout...

    First half, I think the only words I have are "Landon Donovan is the best player America has ever produced." Even I, Landon fan numero uno, was astounded by how good he looked. Beasley should've could've finished Donovan's brilliant one-touch early on, and Landon should have taken the penalty (think McBride's not gunning for Wynalda's record?).

    But the second half was one of those times where, maybe it didn't feel like we were going to lose, but it didn't feel like a goal was imminent, even when we were playing well. The Poland goal, however, was simply bad. I understand Howard can't commit to the ball because Beasley may have touched it, but all he did was push it further from himself. Then Bocanegra, barely even watching the play, has his back turned allowing the ball to be tapped just in.

    And from there, it was an overwhelming feeling of "This is going to happen when it counts." Whether it's qualifying, or in the actual Cup, it was one of those games that you can just see happening again and not having any excuse or any real outrage over. Sometimes you just lose.

    The equalizer was nice, but in the grand scheme of things, doesn't really matter. It's just one of those games where you outplay the opponent, but you let your guard down and you can't really say much of anything. It's not like it was a fluke goal, and it's not like our defense had been flawless anyway.


  29. #329
    Awesinine. Dan The Man's Avatar
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    I almost forgot the other thing I wanted to mention... they were talking like Beasley to PSV Eindhoven was practically a done-deal, which surprised the hell out of me since I hadn't heard a thing about it... MLS has been turning down offers for DMB so I don't know how seriously to take this, but if it's true, then good for Beasley. He has really turned up his game in the last year, and should open a lot of eyes in Europe, even if being in the Dutch league means even less exposure than the Premiereship.

    But it got me thinking... where in the hell is John O'Brien? The man has been a mystery for Americans, going to Ajax before he ever made any name for himself here, coming back for the World Cup and just making Americans go "um, who is this guy and why is he so fucking great?" and then off to Ajax again, never to be heard from. But Bruce, we're talking World Cup qualifiers. We're talking Reyna and Bocanegra and Friedel and Howard and all the Europeans coming back to play for country. Where's O'Brien?

    So I searched, and found this:
    Quote Originally Posted by Ajax-USA.com
    Next to him was John O'Brien. The American had a dreadful 2003-2004 season due to a persistent Achilles injury. He was fit on 1 July and so determined that he started training at the ArenA two days before the rest of the squad. This weekend he felt some pain again and decided not to take any risks.


    Now that is a damn shame.

  30. #330
    Burrell 4 MVP maxx powerz's Avatar
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    Might as well add my thoughts to the game.

    to Landon. He was brilliant. Some great passes, some great runs. Probably had the best shot of the game, where the Polish keeper needed to make a real solid save on his 18-footer. Ironically enough, the one complaint I had was that he didn't seem to be striking the ball very well on corner kicks and set pieces up until the 88th minute. But when you get an assist on one, I guess it's hard to complain. Well deserved Man of the Match.

    to McBride. I swear, if he didn't take (and miss) the penalty, I might not have known he was even playing yesterday. You can probably count on one hand the number of decent touches he had. And I don't think he got his head on the ball once. Very poor game.

    to Josh Wolff. Yes, because he was actually getting the ball, making good runs, and getting good chances. No, because his finishing was terrible. Just, terrible. Dan mentioned the Beasely one, but I think there was at least two or maybe three, great shots that Josh should have had, where he just blew the finish.

    to Tim Howard. Timmy, when you get that few chances to start, and that few chances to make a play when you do start, you can't pull off some ducky looking clusterfuck like that half punch half flop you pulled yesterday. Ugh.

    to Convey. Could be my bias, cause I love this kid. But I thought it was a much better effort by Bobby than against Grenada. They need to find a way to get this kid on the field, so I hope Bobby can adjust to defense. Will be interesting if Arena plays him against Jamaica. I doubt it.

    Bocanegra had the nice goal, but could have done better on Poland's goal. Other than that, no one else really stood out. Beasely had one or two nice plays, but wasn't much of a factor, and non of the subs were really anything special. Would have liked to have seen Mathis get some more playing time though.

    All in all, it was a lackluster effort at best, but I'll take it. A loss would have really hurt our momentum, but now, I think we're in pretty good shape for Jamaica. I hope so anyway, at Jamaica is probably going to be the toughest of the next six qualifiers.

  31. #331
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    Not the best game for the Americans last night. Yes they dominated for the most part but honestly not a great game.

    Landon is the man. Plain and simple and of course was MOM. Nothing much else to say about that. MLS is probably going to have to let him go back to that German club. Maybe from there he can get a transfer over to the Premiership at some point.

    I was surprised to hear that Beasley could be heading to the Dutch league. MLS had been turning down deals and appearently turned down this Dutch team as well but they came back with a second offer.

    Bocanegra had a good game except for the past defensive play by all Americans on that Poland goal. He scored the goal and was the focus a lot on offensive set plays. Plus he was out there winning 50/50 balls like crazy.

    Some fresh new faces got in the game and did well. I just don't think the players were gelling together as much.

    Convey did okay but his finish is practically gone and I have noticed that and the commentators mentioned it. He should have had that goal when the goalie came out and the ball came to him. He tried to set his good foot and missed wide bad. At that level you should be able to use either foot from 18 yards out and nail it. Had he just used the foot it was going to that would have been a goal. Convey has not been finishing well for the national team or DC United really over the last year.

    McBride should have not taken that PK. He telegraphed it plus it was weak and low. The only reason he probably took it was because is from the Chicago area the commentators said. Donovan should have taken it and given us a 1-0 lead at the point.

    Howard did good. Not much for him to do except in that one spot where they scored and well he could not fully commit to the ball so not much he could do. That was just a set of bad play by the Americans.

    This was the last friendly of the year. For the rest of the year just qualifiers starting in August in Jamiaca which is like two days after the start of the Premiership season. So should be interesting to see who plays in that game.

  32. #332
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    Okay Satl Lake City gets a fucking MLS team. Why the fuck did MLS put a team in Utah?

    Honestly a team in St. Louis would work. St. Louis may not be the hotbed it once was in soccer but I feel like if a team was brought in it would be supported. We do have the Steamers I think in some indoor league but techinically they are in St. Charles. St. Louis used to have the Storm and the Ambush I believe in indoor leagues and did well.

    Oh well. So MLS gets a new team in Utah and a Mexican team that is moving to the US expanding to 12. Not bad.

  33. #333
    Burrell 4 MVP maxx powerz's Avatar
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    Yeah, Utah really made me scratch my head. They don't have a soccer stadium leftover from the Games, do they? Cause unless they have a rich owner, who just randomly wants the team in SL, I fail to see how they are more qualified than a lot of cities.

    Maybe they figure that in a city with only one major sports team, the odds of getting a soccer-specific stadium are better, like in Columbus. I dunno. Columbus was the first one built, but considering there is one in LA, and ones being built in Chicago, Dallas and NJ, I don't get that either.

    Anyway, can't say I'm a fan of expansion in general, or this expansion in particular. Granted, it's absurd that only two teams don't make the playoffs (and dammit, SJ, you better not drag Landon out of it). But is the league really such an over-whelming success, that expansion is necessary. It just seems to me like it will take a league that is internationally a bit of a joke, and water down the talent level.

    Plus, it remains to be seen whether Salt Lake will be a decent draw, or whether any American city can support two different teams. The intrigue of a new stadium wears out eventually.

    But that whole, old-timer, anti-expansion rant being done with, I guess we'll have to wait and see. At least with us getting Chivas USA, and the Burn changing their name to FC Dallas, we'll start sounding like a real league. Meh.

  34. #334
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    The team will be using the U. Of Utah's football teams field for games to start with but sounds like they plan on building a stadium in the next few years.

  35. #335
    Awesinine. Dan The Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maxx powerz
    and water down the talent level.
    My thoughts exactly.

    Worse still, they say they're likely to add another two teams next year, one of which will almost certainly be Seattle (hello Kasey Keller).

    And if Chivas doesn't end up playing in Florida, the whole league can just kiss my ass. You cannot go to a game here, any game, any league, at any level, and not get a Chivas chant going.

    Plus there's that whole "YOU GAVE US A TEAM AND THEN TOOK TWO AWAY YOU DIRTY BASTARDS!" argument.

  36. #336
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    I am not sure if it really water downs the talent if they can pull in some more talent by expanding and becoming a bigger league. This will put them at 12. I think at most we should have 14 or 16 teams though. That is plenty big for a league. But I think maybe another two years wait after next season before the next expansion though to give time for the two new teams to get established and all.

  37. #337
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    MLS signed another American teenager.

    http://www.sportsline.com/soccer/story/7503044

  38. #338
    Burrell 4 MVP maxx powerz's Avatar
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    Just watched San Jose and Colorado, and it was a total ass-kicking from the Quakes. Totally different team when you can play Donovan and Ching up front instead of the De Resario. They probably won't be in last for long. The first goal was a thing of beauty. And Donovan finally had a decent club match. Can't get enough of the man, it will be a sad day when he leaves for the greener pastures of Europe.

    I get CSN, so DC United versus LA tonight. Wooooooooo!

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    Beasley agrees to terms with Dutch giant PSV Eindhoven

    CHICAGO - Chicago Fire midfielder DaMarcus Beasley agreed to terms with Dutch giant PSV Eindhoven Sunday and will join the club this week.

    Beasley joins a squad that recently sold forwards Arjen Robben and Mateja Kezman to Chelsea and midfielder Dennis Rommedal to Charlton Athletic.

    PSV finished second in the Dutch top flight last season, behind Ajax Amsterdam, and was eliminated from the Amstel Cup in the quarterfinal round by rivals NAC Breda.

    No details of the transfer were released, but the deal is reportedly close to $2.5 million dollars.

    A formal announcement is expected to come from Chicago as early as Tuesday.

    Beasley is the latest high-profile signing of an American player since goalkeeper Tim Howard's move to Manchester United from the MetroStars, and the first in the European transfer window for an American.
    you DMB. Make us proud.

  40. #340
    Burrell 4 MVP maxx powerz's Avatar
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    For a week now it's been pretty much inevitable, but still, nice to see. It's probably the best thing for everyone. Beasely seems to be the kind of player who will be better off not being the top player on the team- which is my theory as to why he's so much better for the MNT than for the Fire. Of course, that's assuming PSV is good and talented. I really have no idea how good second in the Dutch leagues is compared to, say, the English Premier Plus, he finally gets to play in Europe, and MLS gets a bunch of money which they could use to try and buy Landon's contract (as was reported in Wahl's column on the SI site, which would kick five kinds of ass).

    So, good luck to DaMarcus. And go Eindhoven!! You're my new favorite team in the Dutch top flight now.

  41. #341
    You're rather attractive aenima's Avatar
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    Newcastle knocked them out of the UEFA Cup last season

    The Dutch league has three decent teams - Ajax, PSV, Feyenoord - and the rest are pretty woeful. They're a good side, but they've got money problems and are in the process of selling off their best players. I think Beasley's a right winger, so he's probably been brought in to replace Rommedahl, arguably the fastest football player on the planet.

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    Awesinine. Dan The Man's Avatar
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    Beasley is left.

    And if you thought you saw fast before...

    ZOOM! Run DMB is faster than something else that is known to be quite fast.

  43. #343
    You're rather attractive aenima's Avatar
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    If he's left then he'll probably get a regular game, since Robben's gone off to Chelsea.

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    Convey is heading to Portsmith in the first division in England. Hope he gets the work visa this time unlike when he was headed to Tottenham(I think) and it was denied.

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    Just saw that Beasley confirmed his move to PSV. Lack of ambition, in my opinion, to join PSV when he had the chance to go to Southampton. He could have played in one of the top European leagues.

    Might end up at Chelsea if he is any good at PSV, though. PSV also signed a Santos defender and that Farfan guy, who are both long term Chelsea targets.

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    I don't think Beasley had anything to do with turning down Southhampton. MLS owns the contracts of the players and make or deny any transfers or loans. I was surprised to hear him going but obviously PSV came back with a second offer and was able to land his services.

  47. #347
    I ate them before they ate me El Capitano Gatisto's Avatar
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    Like I said, he could end up at Chelsea in a couple of seasons. They have a feeder agreement with PSV. Chelsea would be ones to pick up a promising US player, if even simply to raise the profile of the club in the US.

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    I hope he makes it over there. I am keep hoping some of our more promising players keep heading that way to improve their game and make our national team better.

  49. #349
    You're rather attractive aenima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Capitano Gatisto
    Like I said, he could end up at Chelsea in a couple of seasons. They have a feeder agreement with PSV. Chelsea would be ones to pick up a promising US player, if even simply to raise the profile of the club in the US.
    When did they make that deal? I've never heard of it.

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    Kenyon made it last season. He has good relations with the PSV chairmen, over the Stam, Robben and Van Nistelrooy signings. Always makes sure PSV get a fair price.

    So Chelsea set up a feeder club deal. A promising young Santos defender (I think his name is Alex) signed for PSV, then, with the agreement made that he would move to Chelsea in 3 seasons when he got his EU passport.

    That South American striker, Farfan, who Chelsea were heavily linked with, he also moved to PSV recently, I'm guessing as part of the same deal.

    Beasley could be another. Dunno. Never heard Chelsea being interested in him, and I think he would get a work permit ok, but you know what Chelsea are like. Beasley would cut them a slice of the US market, as well as being a potentially good player.

  51. #351
    Burrell 4 MVP maxx powerz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MTR
    I hope he makes it over there. I am keep hoping some of our more promising players keep heading that way to improve their game and make our national team better.
    I'm going to argue with you over this. In my opinion, the US national team is a second tier squad right now. We'll be very disappointed if we don't make it to the secound round in Germany, but will still be reasonably happy with anything beyond that. No real aspirations of winning the whole thing. And having a few of your top guys playing in Europe will only help so much.

    No, the key to the US taking the next step is to make the game more popular here at home. And to do that, MLS has got to start keeping their top stars. As long as they continue to be a feeder league for Europe (we've now lost McBride, Mathis, Howard, Beasely and Convey, I think in the last 12 months), the game will never amount to anything in this country. If U.S. fans can't see high quality soccer here at home, they won't watch, and as I've said before in this thread, MLS and US soccer will hit a plateau.

    Anyone who watched Columbus and Colorado on the national game this week knows that kind of shit isn't going to attract anyone. Hejduk was the highest profile guy on the field, and both teams were so lacking in any kind of talent, they basically sat back and played 90 minutes of defensive soccer. Keeping players at home, and developing a respectable league that future young stars will be willing to play for, is what is going to make our national team better, not sending them over to Europe.

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    Problem is that MLS can not and never will be a league of any kind of stature. We can not get any top talent that is not American. We get a star here and there from elsewhere but beyond that the league is not good a good place to develop national team players. If they can not go against good competition on a regular basis then they need to head to Europe where they can develop. Now if they just go ride the bench most of the time they need to stay here but if they are over there playing that is where the need to be. I would love to see MLS build up to be a great league but it is not going to happen. There are just too many good leagues elsewhere in the world where players want to play. Most of the American talent that stays in MLS are the kids just getting into professional play. The US team will never improve if our top talent stays in MLS. I think that has shown when Areana has used mostly MLS rosters for games. When we play a mix of players from European leagues and MLS we do better.

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    I agree with J-Mil, albeit for somewhat different reasons. Despite what Fox Sports Net would have you believe, we are not a soccer nation. You could have every MNT player in the MLS and you're not going to see any significant leaps in ratings, attendence, or income. People who love soccer are going to watch, regardless of whether the top American names are there, because it's the best we have. People who don't care for the game, will never watch. And the kinds of people in between aren't going to be swayed by the current crop of Americans. As Freddy's debut showed, they'll care about hype and about unknowns. You can't exactly hype a Tim Howard, and you certainly can't hype a Landon Donovan any more than he has been in the last two years. Landon is arguably the best American talent right now, and does the average person care? No.

    So fuck 'em. No one starting on the MNT is going to get better by playing a career in MLS. If we are to have the best team we can, the players have to be tested against the world's best, not a bunch of just-out-of-college players. Major League Soccer can keep building up the raw young talents, because they can benefit from getting playing time here that they probably wouldn't in Europe. Throw in guys circling back at the ends of their careers, and you've got a nice developmental system. Will it bring in fans? Maybe, depending on how well they hype the young unknowns. But I think at this point, it's safe to say that MLS is settling into its niche in terms of fans, ratings, and money. Anything much higher or much lower than what we have now is unlikely.

    The only people who can raise the profile of the game of soccer are the Men's and Women's National Teams, because the respective World Cups are the only things that mainstream America remotely cares about. Unfortunately, we've seen that even that only lasts about a year after the Cup. So why not allow those players to better themselves, to achieve a potential unreachable in MLS, and in turn better the profile of the game here?

  54. #354
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    I think that's a little harsh. Certainly, soccer isn't going to break into the top four men's sports any time soon over there, but really, it doesn't have to in order to be successful.

    At this very moment, Manchester United, Celtic, Liverpool, Chelsea, Bayern Munich and I'm not sure who else are playing in the US. And they're playing in front of sell-outs, and people are paying $80 a head in some cases to watch them. And, for that, they're playing half a game, warming up for the new season, and Man United are playing young guys who I've never even heard of before for some of them, and they're my team.

    So, there's certainly an interest there.

    The trouble, as far as I can tell, is that MLS blows. It probably doesn't help that MLS highlights are on at about 3am over here, but it just sends me to sleep. And I'm a European soccer fan, not some random Yank that they want to bring into the game.

    I think the only other league that's anywhere as near as slow as the MLS is the Dutch league. And there the actual standard of football is higher. Not to mention the fact that the Dutch aren't playing in front of half-empty stadiums. You play football in a graveyard, no-one's going to care, and hence, no-one's going to watch. Baseball is boring as fuck, but I actually bothered to watch a fair bit of the Yankees vs Red Sox game, because they managed to get the game over as being even slightly meaningful.

    You need more Brazillians. That's about it. We've covered this topic before, but US really needs the two Americas confederations to merge. Especially at a domestic level, it strengthens the appeal enormously by putting American and Mexican teams into the Copa Libertadores.

    San Jose vs Whoever the fuck won the Canadian league = Who cares?
    San Jose vs River Plate... = You get where I'm going with this.

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    http://www.sportsline.com/soccer/story/7525011

    Bayern Munich tops Manchester United on penalty kicks


    July 25, 2004
    SportsLine.com wire reports



    CHICAGO -- Oliver Kahn stopped two of four penalty kicks to give Bayern Munich a 4-2 victory over Manchester United following a scoreless tie in an exhibition game Sunday.
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    In a matchup of teams coming off disappointing seasons, Roy Keane was the only player in the opening lineup who had started 35 or more games for Manchester United. Bayern started several of its stars, including Khan, the goalkeeper who is captain of Germany's national team.

    After 80 scoreless minutes, fans started booing both teams. The crowd of 58,121 became more vocal after David Bellion sent a bad ball to Manchester newcomer Alan Smith, which ended a two-on-one opportunity.

    Chicago-area native Jonathan Spector, who graduated from St. Viator high school only weeks ago, made his debut for Manchester United. The 18-year-old defender played a solid left back and made a great stop on Hasan Salihamidzic in the first half.

    Phil Bardsley's 25-yard shot during first-half injury time was the best scoring chance for Manchester. It sailed high.

    Piotr Trochowski almost scored for Bayern in the 54th minute, but goalkeeper Roy Carroll made a diving save.


    AP NEWS
    The Associated Press News Service

    Copyright 2004, The Associated Press, All Rights Reserved

  56. #356
    Awesinine. Dan The Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FullLeatherJacket
    At this very moment, Manchester United, Celtic, Liverpool, Chelsea, Bayern Munich and I'm not sure who else are playing in the US. And they're playing in front of sell-outs, and people are paying $80 a head in some cases to watch them. And, for that, they're playing half a game, warming up for the new season, and Man United are playing young guys who I've never even heard of before for some of them, and they're my team.

    So, there's certainly an interest there.
    That's because most Americans are ignorant enough to believe they're actually going to watch full squads going 90 minutes. You hype up the names enough, and any upper-middle class father is taking the kids for a summer outing. But, as I said when this "series" was brought up, any American who follows soccer was aware of most of these teams playing here last summer, and saw just how thin the teams were. And we're not spending $80 to see that.

    The people going to see these games are the people who never watched a game but turned in to see Freddy Adu. It's not because they know anything about soccer; ironically, it's because they know nothing about it. Again, Americans will buy into anything if it's hyped correctly. You can bring in Americans, Brazilians, Martians, anyone. If it's not hyped, the American public isn't watching.

    And if you don't think people paying $80 to see scrubs play doesn't prove that, ask the average American who the best soccer player in the world is. 99% of the time, you'll hear David Beckham. If that doesn't prove the effect of hype over substance, nothing does.

  57. #357
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    And if you don't think people paying $80 to see scrubs play doesn't prove that, ask the average American who the best soccer player in the world is. 99% of the time, you'll hear David Beckham. If that doesn't prove the effect of hype over substance, nothing does.
    i would be surprised that any americans would be able to even name a soccer player...let alone one that doesn't play for their country

  58. #358
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    So Chivas will play in Los Angeles, creating the first two-team city in Major League Soccer. I guess it's not surprising, what with it being a Mexican organization, but it's still somewhat disappointing. And it does pose a bit of a problem if Utah and Los Angeles come into a league split into East and West divisions. I guess shift KC to the East?

    Meh, I'm pretty much against everything they've done with this expansion (not to mention being pretty negative on the mere idea anyway), between all the better places to put a team than Utah, the impossible timetable, now this... then again, the Galaxy became the first (and only, so far) team to earn a profit, so taking a relatively established club (well, the club is established, but it's hard to tell how much of this USA branch will be independant of or controlled by its Mexican counterpart) and putting them in an existing stadium in a market that clearly supports the game... it all adds up to a good business decision, certainly...

    ...now Utah, that's a much different story...

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    I am still shaking my head at Utah. There had to be way better cities fighting for that team than Salt Lake City. I mean we had the WINTER Olympics there. Geez. Move to warmer places.

  60. #360
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    I hear there is a MLS Reformation. What are the new teams. new format etc.?

    Thanks.

  61. #361
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    Quote Originally Posted by maxx powerz
    And to do that, MLS has got to start keeping their top stars. As long as they continue to be a feeder league for Europe (we've now lost McBride, Mathis, Howard, Beasely and Convey, I think in the last 12 months), .
    If they'd kept these players and players of this quality they wouldn't be a league with much recognition, they'd be nowhere near the Argentinian and Brazillian, let alone the top European clubs. Those players have only been bought as squad players for small clubs (apart from Howard.), even Beasley was close to joining Southampton, a mid table side. So if these players are the best you can do, that really isn't going to give the league any more recognition or standing compared to the top leagues.

  62. #362
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    We just added Chivas USA in LA and a new team in Salt Lake City. I have not heard if they are adjusting the conferences or what at. They just announced the Chivas USA team so if they are realigning stuff I am sure we will hear about it shortly.

  63. #363
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    Chivas USA? what sort of name is that? is it a place? all the other teams have great names like fire, wizards, galaxy and the bears. It'd be interesting if we had that in Europe. The Milan Raiders, the Southampton Axes, or the Liverpool Thieves. It'd be great.

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    Chivas is a top Mexican team. The owner(s) are putting a team in MLS. So it is Chivas USA since it is the US branch of the organization.

  65. #365
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    Ah, gotcha. Thought I recognised the name.

  66. #366
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    Just looked at the rosters or the MLS all-star game, I they the players that are reckoned to be the best in MLS, or the ones that have the most votes or what?

  67. #367
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    Starting lineup is chosen by votes and then the benches were named later on and the commissioner got to add like a couple special picks.

  68. #368
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    So Freddy Adu wasn't voted in.

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    Nope. He was a special pick by the commissioner. He only has like two goals and only started a handful of games.

  70. #370
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    I know, he is only 14 after all, but seeing as he's making all the headlines and Dan The Man said (up there ^), that people watch games just to see him, much like the Japanese watch Beckham, I'd imagine he'd be voted in.

  71. #371
    Awesinine. Dan The Man's Avatar
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    Fortunately, soccer fans are a lot smarter than baseball fans (insert the dozens of examples from this year's All-Star Game alone). He didn't deserve it, so he didn't get it.

    But once again, in order to be able to hype the game, they had to have Adu in there, because he's the only name you can throw out to a casual sports fan that will get their interest.

  72. #372
    I ate them before they ate me El Capitano Gatisto's Avatar
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    Kind of shitty for the African nations that France have been stealing their best players for a long ass time, and now the US have done it with Adu.

    Ghana always seem to have immense youth teams.

  73. #373
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    Yeah but alot of those players have lived in France all their life and although they were born in Mali or on the Ivory Coast, they really don't consider themselves from that country at all. Same goes for Holland, with Hasselbaink, born in Surinam, but was always going o play for Holland.

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    Yeah that's right. We twisted his arm to make him a citizen.

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    His momma wanted a better life. We wanted a better player. Win-win.

    Besides, we haven't helped Africa with things like AIDS or starvation... why start with soccer?

  76. #376
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    Africa, a few years back, were tipped to be dominating the sport by now.. probably because of all the talent they clearly had.

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    I don't see how the US cannot be World Champions within 20 years frankly. They dominate every other sport, and football must be bigger than half the sports they dominate over there? Am I right? They have money, facilitlies, lots of huge stadiums, one of the largest populations in the world....

  78. #378
    Awesinine. Dan The Man's Avatar
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    We also have no interest.

    The latest data says that only 2% of Americans claim soccer as their favorite sport.

  79. #379
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    Yeah that's true but with such a huge population, I'm not sure how much it's played in schools, but there should be at least 11 brilliant players in 20 years time. I think interest will probably grow, maybe not at the rate that some expected when MLS was formed, but I still think it'll grow. And also with people moving to the states from countries where football is big, and gaining American citizenship, like Adu.

  80. #380
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    I suppose it's my duty to bump this as we're less than an hour away from kickoff as the US goes into Kingston to play the Reggae Boyz in the first World Cup qualifying semifinal match. 7pm Eastern, ESPN2.

    Let's see, various things to note about the match... Keller will be in goal... Landon again taking the field as a forward, despite recent performances suggesting he is most effective as a midfielder, simply due to a lack of forwards. Landon and McBride should get the start, with my man Brian Ching being the lone reserve who regularly plays forward.

    Also interesting to note, the US has never won a qualifying match in Jamaica, drawing 0-0 in all three such matches. You may remember the miracle of last year's qualifying, with the US looking like it would not move on to the final round of qualifying, but with a win vs. Jamaica and an impossible road victory by Trinidad & Tobago over Honduras allowing the US to sneak through. But that game was in Foxboro, not Kingston.

    PS: In the PSV season opener, DMB scored the final goal in a 5-2 victory. Yay.

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    Ching scores to tie the game and save the Americans from defeat. I watched the game off and on but I did see the goal. Americans have to play somewhat better in the future.

  82. #382
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    Have to play a lot better.

    They were flat out bad tonight. Forwards were bad (unwilling to take shots, and unable to put them on goal when they did). Midfielders were bad, save for DMB (Earnie Stewart specifically was bad, Armas was invisible, Reyna didn't get enough touches). Defense wasn't particularly bad, though Vanney more or less gave up the goal (well, he certainly gave up the ball that led to the corner, and McBride forgot he has to mark someone on corners) and Hedjuk seemed to miss his tackles more than he connected with them. Pope and Bocanegra continue to be solid defenders. Couldn't really ask for more out of Keller, though he did nothing spectacular either.

    I love Ching, but if he hadn't equalized, he'd take the fall along with Vanney and McBride (see above) for absolutely blowing the best scoring chance of the entire game when he headed one wide. He's making a run towards the far post, yet he clearly attempted (and succeeded) to push the ball further out rather than back towards goal. Near post, absolutely. Center of the goal, sure. But that's just terrible form at the far post and I'm still kind of upset about it.

    Bottom line: they looked bad. Jamaica didn't deserve to get the win, but neither did we deserve to get the tie. It's one of those times where you wish the ref would rule that both teams lost.

    PS: El Salvador 2 - 1 Panama, so El Salvador currently has the group lead, though there's a lot of games yet to be played. Well, five to be exact. But anyway, US hosts El Salvador on September 4, then quickly travels to Panama on the 8th. From what I understand, Fox Sports World has the coverage, not ESPN, which bites because I'll be back at school by then and without FSW.

    EDIT: Just saw Costa Rica lost to Honduras 5-2... again, it's early and there are lots more matches to be played, not to mention the top two teams in each group moving on, but still... that's not a result I expected to see...
    Last edited by Dan The Man; August 19th, 2004 at 1:03 AM.

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    Costa Rica lost to Honduras? Even worse they lost 5-2? Damn.

    See you watched more of the game I did. Yes I did see some wasted chances to score though and about had a heart attack when Donovan did not shoot and passed it ot Ching. Then Ching scored and everything was fine.

    I started to use the excuse that we had players flying from Europe in after the first weekend of the season and the fact that some of the MLS players had a busy week. But then I saw where like 12 of Jamaica's roster play in England and three in MLS so they were really in the same boat but they did seem to wear out at the end to let us get that chance to eqaulize.

    US better step it up so we don't have to struggle to make it to the final round.

  84. #384
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    That last night was pathetic. We want to talk all this shit about how we want to compete for a World Cup now. Road games be damned, the only country we should EVER be outplayed by is Mexico, and simply put, we were outplayed yesterday. I disagree with Dan, because I think Jamaica deserved the win, and we basically stole a point. Cobi Jones with a modest cross, we get lucky and it basically drops right at Landon's feet, with the two Jamaican defenders out of position cause they went at the ball. We, the United States, needed a total fluke goal to tie Jamaica.

    The most frustrating part was the last twenty minutes, when you figured we would outplay Jamaica, get a lot of chances, and even if we lost, we'd go down blazing. But it didn't happen like that. That goal was really our first and only real good chance in the last twenty. Cobi had some awkward toe poke, and Landon had a decent drive from about 20 out. But on the whole, it was a very disappointing effort. I'm not sweating the group, cause last night should have been our toughest game, and we stole a point. But still, we have a lot of room for improvement.

  85. #385
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    I don't see how Jamaica deserved to win simply because they scored so much earlier. If Jamaica's goal had come in the 89th, would you still say they deserved to win? Jamaica showed me nothing except the ability to capitalize on our mistakes. If Vanney doesn't make that horrible pass, or if McBride doesn't completely let his man run free on the corner, they don't score a goal. None of their best chances were put on net, and really, all of Keller's saves were simple. They didn't shut down our attack, and our lack of scoring opportunities were more due to terrible crossing than any defender. They didn't impress me at all.

    So I again submit that neither team should have won, because neither outplayed the other. Neither played a game that you come away saying "man, they're pretty good." Hell, neither played a game that you say "man, they're not that bad." They both can, have, and will play better, but both stunk it up last night.
    Last edited by Dan The Man; August 19th, 2004 at 1:05 PM.

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    Well, I'll admit I didn't see the first half. But I turned it on during the half, and Wynalda was saying how if this was a boxing match, Jamaica would have gotten the first half on points. Assuming this is true, Jamaica did what they needed to in the second half- score early, then play ball possession and hang on for the clock to run out. Especially when your opponent is more talented than you, Jamaica did it exactly by the book, and got an unlucky bounce at the end. No, it wasn't a dominating performance, but they did exactly what they had to do against us for 88 minutes. I thought they deserved the win.

    *shrug*

    We probably just have different definitions of "deserving the win".

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    4pm vs. El Salvador (live on Fox Sports World and Telemundo)... don't get either up here so I will watch at the world famous (supposedly) Nevada Smith's...

    El Salvador beat Panama, so they're the group leaders going into today... despite looking bad against Jamaica, we're on home soil and playing against a decidedly worse opponent... I expect a win, and by more than one goal... looks like LanDo may get to move back to midfield, so it will be interesting to see who gets paired with McBride... perhaps Ching making his first international start...

  88. #388
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    I am stuck at work for the game. Lets hope the stat tracker on the US soccer site is working okay today.

  89. #389
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    Gutted. USA once again manage to tie a game in the last minute. Panama deserved this game. Still, we´re second in the group right now.

    For you Americans who couldn't watch the game, USA had a slight advantage in the first half, but in the second half Panama came all guns blazing and managed to score a well deserved goal about midway thru. Then USA scored on a lucky bouncer which landed on a puddle and the Panamanian defender who was going to clear slipped on the wet field, which left Jones all alone for the score.

    Our main problem is that we are not accustomed to playing with a lead late in the game in a tight game, and instead of trying to create more scoring chances we should have been more crafty and held the ball.

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    Sounds like a sloppy game. We are in first by the way not second.

  91. #391
    Awesinine. Dan The Man's Avatar
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    *taps MTR on the shoulder*

    *points to Java's location*

  92. #392
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan The Man
    *taps MTR on the shoulder*

    *points to Java's location*


    I'm still

    I was 2 minutes from celebrating like never before.

  93. #393
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    Screw you Dan. Just screw you and screw NYU while you are at and those damn Olsen twins.

  94. #394
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    Believe me, I'm trying.


  95. #395
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    Well keep me updated on that one.

  96. #396
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    Costa Rica has lost two games so far in this round. Wow. They should be leading their group.

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    So what is up with Saturday's game being on ppv?

  98. #398
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    It's someone's brilliant idea to make zero dollars.




    I'm not sure if that's funny or not...

  99. #399
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    So they do good to give us any coverage and then think that people like me are desparate enough for soccer to actually pay for something that should be shown on tv. Don't they know I have like no money.

    Anyway I just realized what it is on ppv. NCAA football.

  100. #400
    Awesinine. Dan The Man's Avatar
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    Ah, that must be it.

    Univision has the San Pedro vs. Guadalajara Tech game. That should be good.



    I'm really not sure if that's funny.

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