Official NHL Thread

[Swedish Sensation]

Originally posted by The_shad
Reeks of Awesomeness will kick your ass for that. Me? I'm just gonna *WHACK* you. Hopefully, SHE doesn't visit this thread.

Hahaha... whoa, you've sunken to the depths of gimmick infringement... I mean, first writing for Rajah's other site, which no one even knows exists... and now this.

Originally posted by The_shad
That's why we need it the other way. Duh.

It's still not a bad way to bring up another team... 'cause another team takes their place in the final 8 we'll say, and then they can build on that new experience and become a better team. We could have CuJo back as soon as next week though.

Originally posted by The_shad
But the coaches didn't really build the team. It was Pierre Laquiox, our GM. He got the best of the best in the drafts and he got the guy that he knew could click. Really, greatness has been forced onto our coaches with little effort.

Yeah... the Avs are still a homegrown team though, and that shines through in the playoffs, when you see a team full of all-stars working together.

Originally posted by The_shad
They lost, but it was closer than the series shows. If it were the Av's, the Canes woulda won.

Hey, don't worry man... I wouldn't have laughed at you. *snickers*

Originally posted by The_shad
The Skins have had the highest payroll in the NFL for 2 straight year and they have gone 3-13 and 8-8 in those 2 years. And the latter was a lot of luck with a 5 game winning streak after starting 0-5.

I never knew they had that high a payroll. I only pay attention to the Fins... I'm glad they're making Fiedler their main man... he has a lot in him. He just needs to get more polished and start scrambling some more.

[The_shad]

Originally posted by Swedish Sensation


Hahaha... whoa, you've sunken to the depths of gimmick infringement... I mean, first writing for Rajah's other site, which no one even knows exists... and now this.


I keep telling Rajah to plug the damn site on the main board, but he has something against shameless plugging. At least we have a link on the homepage. which is almost invisible, might I add

It's still not a bad way to bring up another team... 'cause another team takes their place in the final 8 we'll say, and then they can build on that new experience and become a better team. We could have CuJo back as soon as next week though.

I feel good for ya. But who's to say Hasek doesn't retire and the Wings pick up CuJo. *snicker*

Yeah... the Avs are still a homegrown team though, and that shines through in the playoffs, when you see a team full of all-stars working together.

Did I say otherwise?

Hey, don't worry man... I wouldn't have laughed at you. *snickers*

You mean like I laughed at your Leafs when they got slaughtered?

I never knew they had that high a payroll. I only pay attention to the Fins... I'm glad they're making Fiedler their main man... he has a lot in him. He just needs to get more polished and start scrambling some more.

The got a real dumb owner. He's also the GM and he sucks more than Britney Spears after a LLOONNGG day. (sorry Jobber, but its true. )

The_shad (Pop culture jokes totally reek of awesomeness)

[Kid_Roll]

Originally posted by The_shad


The_shad (And if you say "no" to my above statement, look at the Washington Redskins. I rest my case)

Yeah, the Rangers would have worked better as an example, seeing as how they are actually in the NHL, as opposed to an NFL franchaise. geez.

[Kid_Roll]

Originally posted by The_shad



The_shad (I could tutor you in all the NFL in less than 2 days time)

Yes, but not in hockey.


Yes, I am bored and picking on Shad. Why not? This thread will be dead a while until free agency starts up.

[The_shad]

Originally posted by Kid_Roll


Yeah, the Rangers would have worked better as an example, seeing as how they are actually in the NHL, as opposed to an NFL franchaise. geez.

Meh, Rangers did a lot better than the Redskins.

[The_shad]

Originally posted by Kid_Roll



Yes, but not in hockey.


Yes, I am bored and picking on Shad. Why not? This thread will be dead a while until free agency starts up.

Don't pick on poor Shad. He's very unstable.



I could probably tutor someone in hockey in 3 days, but don't hold me to that. *knows you will*

The_shad (Actually, I could do it in 5 words. Av's rule. Everyone else sucks. )

[Kid_Roll]

Bruins are letting Guerin and Dafore test the market!

I think Dafoe will stay in Boston. I don' think any team will really want to sign him that badly. All the bad teams will want to stay with their young goalies, and all the playoff bound teams will be scared off by his bad playoffs this year. I could see Chicago maybe going for him, maybe Toronto if they lose Joseph , but not too many teams gunning for him. Guerin on the other hand, will be sought after like crazy. Rangers, Wings, Blues, Colorado, New Jersey even.........All the usual cup contenders we have grown to know and hate, will probably make a run for him. Washington, if they are serious about getting a cup should make an offer for him. Boston lost Allison, and if they lose Guerin and Dafoe, it could really hurt them. It really sucks to see Boston lose top end players like this. I want them to do good again. And for 5 Detroit players to retire and for them to do really really badly for the next 5 years.

[Jason_HBK]

The Leafs made an offer to Joseph. I hope he takes it. *prays*

[Rajah]

I'm pretty sure Joseph or any other big-name free agent will accept any offer from their teams until July 1. It makes no sense for them to sign before then.

Free agency is out of control and everyone wants to "test the market".

[Kid_Roll]

Flyers arent going to try and re-sign Oates. Brilliant! This makes it one of the best trades ever! Oulette and a crapload of first rounders for an aging UFA we will only use for 14 games? Sounds good to me!

Honestly, someone please fire Bobby Clarke and never let him in hockey ever again. Please.

It should be interesting to see where Oates will go. I bet San Jose, since they like to recycle older players, or maybe the Wings, or possibly back to St. Louis.

[Rajah]

Definitely not the Wings. They're backed up with too many centers.

And I also want to comment on the coaching discussion about the best coach of all-time. Someone made a comment that Scotty Bowman landed on great teams, thus he shouldn't go down as one of the best coaches in history. I disagree. A lot of people in the industry claim that it is a lot harder to manage a team full of all-stars than a team that only has a couple stars. There's so many egos involved that it's gotta be tough getting everybody on the same page, especially over the course of one season and more.

[TC]

Quick question, when are the NHL awards comming on CBC?

[Rajah]

Thursday evening, I think probably 8pm EST?

[TC]

Thanks

[TC]

Who is participating in the faceoff.com contest, if so post how many points you've gotten for the whole playoffs.

I started during the 2nd round and got 102 pts.
During the 3rd round I got 110 pts.
Overall 212 pts.

[M-Dub]

Free angecy starts in less than two weeks!!!

Guerin, Amonte, Kasparaitis to the Penguins

[Jason_HBK]

I wish that Iginla, Theodore, Cujo, etc would follow Alfredsson's lead and sign with their Canadian team. We can't afford to lose top guys once they get good. Thats what sucks about Canadian teams nowadays. They sign a player, the player gets good and leaves for better money. It's almost like you want the team to win without a player getting really good. This will be an interesting off season.

[DrEvil]

I'm surprised theres no mention of the awards in here yet... I was pretty surprised to see Theodore win. Who would have guessed two years ago that this guy would be a future MVP, pretty amazing really. I guess it's well deserved but it seems there were a few standout goalies this year and only one real standout position players, so I feel that should have helped Iginla...

Other then that I can't say I was very surprised by any of the choices...

[Zen]

....

Basically I'm glad Jose got the award. He definitely deserved it more the iggy and roy.
Roy had a great team, and iggy only put up some impressive numbers for himself. He didn't do much for the flames otherwise.
Jose carried the Habs quite far.

As for Iggy, he's good, but not the best forward in the league anyhow..sure he collected the most points, but how many?..it didn't even top 100 I don't think..I wouldn't say this guy has put up seasons like jagr and guys like that.
Iggy really didn't quite do enough to get him that award.
But I was rooting for Theodore anyway, so I don't care.

[DrEvil]

Originally posted by Zen
....

Basically I'm glad Jose got the award. He definitely deserved it more the iggy and roy.
Roy had a great team, and iggy only put up some impressive numbers for himself. He didn't do much for the flames otherwise.
Jose carried the Habs quite far.

As for Iggy, he's good, but not the best forward in the league anyhow..sure he collected the most points, but how many?..it didn't even top 100 I don't think..I wouldn't say this guy has put up seasons like jagr and guys like that.
Iggy really didn't quite do enough to get him that award.
But I was rooting for Theodore anyway, so I don't care.

You have to look at the players in comparison with other players at their position... It's easy to point out that Iginla got under 100 points, but look at how far he was ahead in goals and point of the rest of the league. He had 52 goals and I think there was only 1 other person with over 40. You can argue that it's because of the lack of talented players in the NHL but wouldn't that also diminish the accomplishments of the goalies at the same time.

The fact that Burke, Roy, Theodore and a couple of other goalies all looked like they should have been in line for the Hart trophy made it feel like its too easy for the goalies in the NHL these days... sure they are all great goalies and I don't believe Theodore was completely undeserving, but he barely won the Vezina over Roy, while Iginla would have been an almost unanimous pick for best position player...

It's obviously easier for me to be on Iginla's side living in Calgary but if you paid attention to the pathetic team they had this year you'd understand where i'm coming from... Savard & Neidermeyer were supposed to be their 2nd and 3rd best players coming into the season and both of them had career worst years. Turek started out like a champ but for the last 2/3 of the season he was very erratic, and a useless backup in Vernon didn't help matters...

Conroy was one of the only other standout Flames and it's hard to ignore the fact that he got most of his points playing on the same line as Iginla... howz that for making another player around you better...

[Zen]

......

Those are all good points. But in the end, the fact is jose brought his team quite far...far from what they were expected to do..and without their best forward playing all season long in koivu.
Not only did he carry the team, he also put up incredible numbers.
I can see jose continuing on this season, but I think iggy will find it harder later on when jagr gels with his team, when forsberg is back full time and mario plays healthier. I can think of at least 8 players that will produce more then him next season.
I think iggy is good, but he wouldn't be in my top 10 in terms of talent.

[DrEvil]

Originally posted by Zen
......

Those are all good points. But in the end, the fact is jose brought his team quite far...far from what they were expected to do..and without their best forward playing all season long in koivu.
Not only did he carry the team, he also put up incredible numbers.
I can see jose continuing on this season, but I think iggy will find it harder later on when jagr gels with his team, when forsberg is back full time and mario plays healthier. I can think of at least 8 players that will produce more then him next season.
I think iggy is good, but he wouldn't be in my top 10 in terms of talent.

I agree that Iginla has alot to prove next year. I don't know if theres ten position players more talented then him right now. I'd probably doubt it, but it'll be interesting to see if he can play at that level again.

On the other hand the Hart trophy isn't about how well he may or may not play next season, it was about this season and he was the most standout player in the league.

[M-Dub]

Originally posted by DrEvil
[Jarome Iginla] had 52 goals and I think there was only 1 other person with over 40.

Bill Guerin and Glen Murray each had 41.

[The_shad]

Well, Thoedore definately deserved all that he got. Take him away and you have the Tampa Bay Lightning. Ok, maybe not THAT bad. Thoedore looked like a legendary goalie this year and if he keeps it up, he will go down as one of the best. But he's young so anything could happen to stop that, be it cracking or injury. But I'm still wondering why Roy didn't get Veniza. He had career stats this year and this was to the best goalie period, not most valuable. But thats just the Av fan in me talking, so it doesn't mean a thing.

So, what do you think of the new mandatory nets? I think they are going a little overboard, doing this after one person died in 100 odd years. But its nice that they have the security there, so I'm all for it. It'll be interesting to see how the NHL addapts the rules to if the puck hits the net and goes back onto the ice. Man, I miss hockey.

The_shad (Now, if you excuse me, I have to drop players I got from a 23 for 1 fantasy baseball trade quickly. Seriously)

[Rajah]

Originally posted by DrEvil


You have to look at the players in comparison with other players at their position... It's easy to point out that Iginla got under 100 points, but look at how far he was ahead in goals and point of the rest of the league. He had 52 goals and I think there was only 1 other person with over 40. You can argue that it's because of the lack of talented players in the NHL but wouldn't that also diminish the accomplishments of the goalies at the same time.

I don't think that's a strong argument at all. Jaromir Jagr won the Art Ross (before this year) for four straight seasons, yet he only won one Hart trophy. He outclassed others at his position by pretty much the same as what Iginla did yet he was not judged to be MVP. A scoring title does not an MVP make.

Something which I think a lot of people do not realize: The Hart trophy is not given to the most valuable player of the league; it is given to the most valuable player of an individual team. There is a difference because the two are not interchangeable. And that's why I would clearly pick Theodore as the MVP over Iginla.

[Rajah]

Also on another subject:

In a ballotting screw up, Todd Bertuzzi was denied second team All-Star status.

Betuzzi appeared as both a right winger and a left winger on the ballot, and as such didn't get enough votes at either position to qualify. However if one adds the total votes, Bertuzzi would have edged out Bill Guerin at his actual position, right wing. Joining Guerin on the second team are defenceman Rob Blake and Sergei Gonchar, goaltender Jose Theodore, center Mats Sundin and left winger Brendan Shanahan. Bertuzzi has a very bright future, and will no doubt appear on many All-Star lists before he is through playing.

[M-Dub]

Originally posted by Rajah
I don't think that's a strong argument at all. Jaromir Jagr won the Art Ross (before this year) for four straight seasons, yet he only won one Hart trophy. He outclassed others at his position by pretty much the same as what Iginla did yet he was not judged to be MVP. A scoring title does not an MVP make.

He lost by one point in 2000 to Chris Pronger so he was close.

Also, Jagr won the scoring title once with 96 points in 63 games, while this season Iginla scored 96 points in 82 games.

[Yoel]

Hasek has finally announced his retirement.

My life is now better because of it.

Do you think they'll speed up the process and induct him to the Hockey Hall of Fame early? I don't think he deserves it... He was a great player, but his sportsmanship was pathetic. Letting hockey players in early should be reserved for the greatest, like Gretzky, Lemieux, Howe etc.

[The_shad]

Originally posted by Yoel
Hasek has finally announced his retirement.

My life is now better because of it.

Do you think they'll speed up the process and induct him to the Hockey Hall of Fame early? I don't think he deserves it... He was a great player, but his sportsmanship was pathetic. Letting hockey players in early should be reserved for the greatest, like Gretzky, Lemieux, Howe etc.

Your life is better because Hasek retired? Please explain.

I don't think he'll get in any earlier than the usual 5 years. Hasek could be put in that upper tier of Gretzky, Howe, etc., but it wouldn't happen because it'd cause an unroar. People love to hate Hasek. I've got no clue why, but they do and early induction wouldn't sit well with people. Well, good luck with retirement Hasek. You earned it.

The_shad (And Hasek officially wins the battle of legends. Hasek almost always one uped Roy when they played)

[Yoel]

Originally posted by The_shad


Your life is better because Hasek retired? Please explain.

People love to hate Hasek.

There ya go.

Except I don't love to hate him... He's an annoying turd who should've retired before he even began playing. He dives when he's poked with a finger, and the majority of his saves are fluke.l

[The_shad]

D'oh. I hate it when I answer my own questions. Well, he might be a bit of a wimp and he might have a lot of luck, but you can't deny that he has done some stuff that are bigger than luck and that he is a good player. Or can you?

[Kid_Roll]

Originally posted by Yoel




There ya go.

Except I don't love to hate him... He's an annoying turd who should've retired before he even began playing. He dives when he's poked with a finger, and the majority of his saves are fluke.l

Stop talking. You don't win 6 Vezina's with fluke saves. You win one with fluke saves. But not 6. His diving, while looking horribly, does have some sanity to it. He takes away a lot of the lower part of the net, and people choke and don't shoot high. He does a good job.

[Kid_Roll]

Originally posted by Rajah
Also on another subject:

In a ballotting screw up, Todd Bertuzzi was denied second team All-Star status.

Betuzzi appeared as both a right winger and a left winger on the ballot, and as such didn't get enough votes at either position to qualify. However if one adds the total votes, Bertuzzi would have edged out Bill Guerin at his actual position, right wing. Joining Guerin on the second team are defenceman Rob Blake and Sergei Gonchar, goaltender Jose Theodore, center Mats Sundin and left winger Brendan Shanahan. Bertuzzi has a very bright future, and will no doubt appear on many All-Star lists before he is through playing.

Oh man that sucks! Damnit, Tuzzi should have been on the second all-star team!

[The_shad]

Originally posted by Rajah
Also on another subject:

In a ballotting screw up, Todd Bertuzzi was denied second team All-Star status.

Betuzzi appeared as both a right winger and a left winger on the ballot, and as such didn't get enough votes at either position to qualify. However if one adds the total votes, Bertuzzi would have edged out Bill Guerin at his actual position, right wing. Joining Guerin on the second team are defenceman Rob Blake and Sergei Gonchar, goaltender Jose Theodore, center Mats Sundin and left winger Brendan Shanahan. Bertuzzi has a very bright future, and will no doubt appear on many All-Star lists before he is through playing.

It's only 4 months after the All Star Game. Still fresh in our minds.

Well, althought it looks like he was screwed, we may not know if he would have garnered as many votes if he was just in one position. Being in 2 different places allows people to vote for him twice on one ballot and if he were in one or the other, he might lose the vote to a better candidate in people's eyes. Example, if he were in LW only, instead of people voting for him as a LW instead of RW, they might vote for Shanahan or Robintalle instead. So, in all actuality, he might have gotten more votes than if he were in just one postion this way.

The_shad (How exactly did you think of this just right now? Were you watching the All Star Game on tape? )

[Rajah]

Huh? The all-star team has nothing to do with the all-star game...it's just two teams of all-stars who represent the best of their position over the course of the whole year. It was only announced last week and wasn't voted by the fans.

[M-Dub]

Bill Guerin was a better player than Todd Bertuzzi.

[Yoel]

Originally posted by Kid_Roll
He takes away a lot of the lower part of the net, and people choke and don't shoot high. He does a good job.

Players messing up is beyond Hasek's control. He's just lucky that they choke.

[The_shad]

Originally posted by Rajah
Huh? The all-star team has nothing to do with the all-star game...it's just two teams of all-stars who represent the best of their position over the course of the whole year. It was only announced last week and wasn't voted by the fans.

D'oh. I musta been the one that was watching the All Star game on tape. Well, I messed up. Though I hadn't heard that the ballot was flawed. If they released the infomation about the ballot being flawed, why exactly didn't they do anything about the vote. Thats my question. Well, he still may have not make RW even if the ballot wasn't screwed up. Whoever voted for him at LW may have put him there because they thought he was good, but not good enough to beat out some people at RW.

The_shad (Why can't they think of something more original though? How about All Hockey Team? Or Team of *insert year here*? I mean, it confuses people like me. )

[Psycho]

Bertuzzi is a great power forward, but he didn't really show his full abilities until late in the season. And thanks to Detroit's amazing defence, he didn't show up at all in the playoffs. Next year hopefully he will be great from the start and not just become awesome after Christmas.

[Kid_Roll]

Originally posted by M-Dub
Bill Guerin was a better player than Todd Bertuzzi.

No, no he wasn't.

[Kid_Roll]

Originally posted by Psychosport2000
Bertuzzi is a great power forward, but he didn't really show his full abilities until late in the season. And thanks to Detroit's amazing defence, he didn't show up at all in the playoffs. Next year hopefully he will be great from the start and not just become awesome after Christmas.

He showed up in the first 2 and a half games, then he went back to the old Bertuzzi, who doesnt want to be the guy who tries to lift his team to the win. But after christmas he was one of the best in the game. Hitting, scoring, defe.....scoring, he had it all.

[Kid_Roll]

Originally posted by Yoel


Players messing up is beyond Hasek's control. He's just lucky that they choke.

sigh.

[Psycho]

Right. Players sscrew up because of what Hasek does. Hasek plans for it to happen. It isn't fluke. Maybe it was fluke the first couple of times, then he realized it worked, and now he plans it, but hey. I don't like hasek because his other styles of play. His dives when touched. His attempts to play the puck at the worst of times. His knowcking the net off on purpose, and making it blatantly obvious that he did it on purpose. His walking out of the net during over time to say something to a member of the opposing team and getting scored on.

You know..

[Swedish Sensation]

New topic...

I think CuJo is just being a bitch and holding out for more money... I don't really think he's gonna leave the team if they don't satisfy his demands... I just think he's trying to suck whatever he can outta them. He's got the CuJo's Kids Foundation and what not, and being a major part of the community, I don't think he would just leave like that.

Anyways... discuss...

[Zen]

.....

First of all, CuJo is gonna realize soon that his asking price wont be met by the leafs if it's too high..I think the leafs are starting to realize he really isn't worth it.
To me, he's a rather inconsistent and erratic goalie, who hasn't proven he has what it takes to win the big games. Not all of them anyways.
I don't think we'll be seeing cujo in a leaf jersey next fall.
As for other news, I'll just get this outta the way...theodore is demanding(well his agent)25 million bucks, whereas the habs have offered 19 mill already. If theo was smart, and really wanted to see the habs make an even bigger jump towards the cup finals this year, he'll accept the offer..he'd still be damn rich and well paid, plus the habs would have extra cash to go after selanne hopefully. I heard they were looking at the possibility of lecavalier being with them this season too.
Anyway, once all or most of the free agents have been signed by whatever teams they go to, I'll make my own little very early analyzation on every team in the league, and their chances on the season etc. I wanna become the next prophet or whatever.

BTW, I recently heard the news that a world cup will be held in 2004. That's gonna be sweet.
Canada has got to win that one too. We're gonna lay claim to every major hockey championship because they're supposed to be all ours damnit!!

On another front, I'm glad they've decided to implement some new rules like faster puck drops etc...what they really need to do is rid the ice of the centre line..the red line. Make 2-line passes legal. This is my last wish.

[Swedish Sensation]

Originally posted by Zen
First of all, CuJo is gonna realize soon that his asking price wont be met by the leafs if it's too high..I think the leafs are starting to realize he really isn't worth it.
To me, he's a rather inconsistent and erratic goalie, who hasn't proven he has what it takes to win the big games. Not all of them anyways.
I don't think we'll be seeing cujo in a leaf jersey next fall.

I have to disagree there. He's not a very inconsistent goalie... he has his ups and downs like every goalie, and he's not always on form... but when he's not on form, he's still an above average goalie, and can keep his team in the game. He can also make a game-saver at anytime. He has what it takes to win the big games, but lately, he just hasn't come to play for the big ones. Which is definitely a concern. He's still worth keeping, and in the meantime, Schwab/Centomo/Tellqvist can be developed, and possibly learn from him.

Though he isn't as valuable as he once was. I agree with you there.

Originally posted by Zen
As for other news, I'll just get this outta the way...theodore is demanding(well his agent)25 million bucks, whereas the habs have offered 19 mill already. If theo was smart, and really wanted to see the habs make an even bigger jump towards the cup finals this year, he'll accept the offer..he'd still be damn rich and well paid, plus the habs would have extra cash to go after selanne hopefully. I heard they were looking at the possibility of lecavalier being with them this season too.
Anyway, once all or most of the free agents have been signed by whatever teams they go to, I'll make my own little very early analyzation on every team in the league, and their chances on the season etc. I wanna become the next prophet or whatever.

If he doesn't come back, he's an idiot... but then again, he could just as easily be picked up by a rich team that's on its way to the Cup, and win the Cup even sooner with them. I think the Habs should just slime up to $25M to keep him and keep building. Losing Theo would be a huge step back. Right now, they've stabilized. They're minimized injuries, and they're a solid team. They could pick up a couple free agents (Lecavalier/Selanne), and as long as they don't lose anybody significant, that would definitely be a step forward.

Originally posted by Zen
BTW, I recently heard the news that a world cup will be held in 2004. That's gonna be sweet.
Canada has got to win that one too. We're gonna lay claim to every major hockey championship because they're supposed to be all ours damnit!!

I heard about that... but we won't have claim to every major hockey championship if we don't win the Stanley Cup. That would be awesome, if Canada won in 2004, and 2 Canadian teams played in the finals.

Originally posted by Zen
On another front, I'm glad they've decided to implement some new rules like faster puck drops etc...what they really need to do is rid the ice of the centre line..the red line. Make 2-line passes legal. This is my last wish.

2-line passes are awesome, but it can lead to massive cherry-picking, and that's never good for the league. It would definitely screw with some defensive systems trying to cover players 100 feet away from the play.

Yus! Some good discussion!

[Hogan]

Hey, there's been talk that with Iginla's Group II RFA status that any team offering him a contract in US dollars ... the Flames have the right to match in Canadian dollars. i.e. If another team (hypothetically) made a 5 year 50 million US dollars offer to Iglina, the Flames can match that offer in Canadian funds. i.e. 5 years 50 million Canadian dollar.

In other words, with the exchange rate of 1.59600 ... (keep in mind the exchange rate flucuates ... ) for example they would substantially save ~29.8 million canadian over the life of the 5 year/50 million US contract. Keep in mind these are rough numbers just to show how much they can potentially save and do not take into account the flucuation of the exchange rate that will occur in that time span.

Eric Duhatschek made this revelation on HNIC on the Satellite Hotstove several months ago.

HOWEVER, according to a March 25, 2001 article by Jim Kyte *this subsidy [aka The NHL's Canadian currency equalization plan] does not apply to offers made by OTHER CANADIAN TEAMS.*

Okay of the six canadian teams, the only one that could really make a legitimate substantial offer for Iginla's services would be the Toronto Maple Leafs. i.e. The Maple Leafs could in theory offer Iginla 50 million US over 5 years and the Flames would have to match it in US funds.

Now I don't think it's likely to occur, ( because of a seemingly unwritten quasi-'collusion' between the owners or the fact that Teams' in almost every case historically, matched the offering sheet which in turn 'hurt the owners' in the long run as this inivitably help inflate player salaries around the league further ….) but hey it's still possible to make a competing offer sheet to a rival team's RFA, EH?

Now with the Maple Leafs it could be possible (particularly if they have a poor playoffs showing.......but fortunately they didn't ).

I DO think Pat Quinn has enough "canadian integrity" that he wouldn't want to "stab another canadian team in the back" but who's to say that the OWNERSHIP might not overule him? (As what apparently occured when he was GM in Vancouver, when Messier signed a UFA contract offer with the Vancouver Canucks.)

Well, if this were to occur there would be another reason to show disdain for The Maple Leafs ... No 'LOL' here, as this would not be a good day for Canadian Hockey ... although Leafs fans may beg to differ.

Hey, remember quite a few years ago (August 1997) when the Leafs tried to pry Ohlund off the Canucks with a 5 year 10 million US dollar RFA offer to him before the Canucks finally decided to match that offer? Good move on the Canucks part to match that offer as it turned out. BTW, Pat Quinn was the GM of the Vancouver Canucks at that time ...

[Swedish Sensation]

Originally posted by Hogan
Hey, there's been talk that with Iginla's Group II RFA status that any team offering him a contract in US dollars ... the Flames have the right to match in Canadian dollars. i.e. If another team (hypothetically) made a 5 year 50 million US dollars offer to Iglina, the Flames can match that offer in Canadian funds. i.e. 5 years 50 million Canadian dollar.

In other words, with the exchange rate of 1.59600 ... (keep in mind the exchange rate flucuates ... ) for example they would substantially save ~29.8 million canadian over the life of the 5 year/50 million US contract. Keep in mind these are rough numbers just to show how much they can potentially save and do not take into account the flucuation of the exchange rate that will occur in that time span.

Eric Duhatschek made this revelation on HNIC on the Satellite Hotstove several months ago.

HOWEVER, according to a March 25, 2001 article by Jim Kyte *this subsidy [aka The NHL's Canadian currency equalization plan] does not apply to offers made by OTHER CANADIAN TEAMS.*

Okay of the six canadian teams, the only one that could really make a legitimate substantial offer for Iginla's services would be the Toronto Maple Leafs. i.e. The Maple Leafs could in theory offer Iginla 50 million US over 5 years and the Flames would have to match it in US funds.

Now I don't think it's likely to occur, ( because of a seemingly unwritten quasi-'collusion' between the owners or the fact that Teams' in almost every case historically, matched the offering sheet which in turn 'hurt the owners' in the long run as this inivitably help inflate player salaries around the league further ….) but hey it's still possible to make a competing offer sheet to a rival team's RFA, EH?

Now with the Maple Leafs it could be possible (particularly if they have a poor playoffs showing.......but fortunately they didn't ).

I DO think Pat Quinn has enough "canadian integrity" that he wouldn't want to "stab another canadian team in the back" but who's to say that the OWNERSHIP might not overule him? (As what apparently occured when he was GM in Vancouver, when Messier signed a UFA contract offer with the Vancouver Canucks.)

Well, if this were to occur there would be another reason to show disdain for The Maple Leafs ... No 'LOL' here, as this would not be a good day for Canadian Hockey ... although Leafs fans may beg to differ.

Hey, remember quite a few years ago (August 1997) when the Leafs tried to pry Ohlund off the Canucks with a 5 year 10 million US dollar RFA offer to him before the Canucks finally decided to match that offer? Good move on the Canucks part to match that offer as it turned out. BTW, Pat Quinn was the GM of the Vancouver Canucks at that time ...

...And this, my friend, is why I asked you to come here.

I don't think that Iginla will leave Calgary... he's made a pretty good home here. He's a pretty popular SOB, and he's involved in a lot of community organizations, as are most players... but most of all, he always has a smile on his face. He plays for a sub-par team, but he doesn't walk around in suits looking all stoic. He's always got a smile on his face, he's always happy, and I think he just enjoys playing the game.

I don't really think any other team will throw up a substantial offer for him, and here's why... he may be a huge goal scorer in Calgary, but if any team throws up a substantial offer for him, it's gonna be one of the top teams... 'cause, y'know, payroll and success are kinda correlated these days. On a top team, I don't think he would do as well. He would definitely score 60-70 points, but he's not a particularily hard worker. He's pretty lazy on the ice, and tends to capitalize on opportunities when he gets them, but he doesn't seek them. Kinda like how you differentiated between compliments and leaders a little while ago, Iginla's a compliment... and in my opinion, would just be more weight to carry for a team that already has 4 or 5 superstars.

The Leafs definitely aren't gonna throw up an offer for him... because either they re-sign CuJo, or they gotta find a goalie elsewhere... there's no way in hell Schwab can keep them stabilized. He's a good young goalie, but young players have their up and downs, and you can't put an entire team on their shoulders, especially a team of older players. So they'll go for a goalie and/or defence... their offence was tops in the conference, so no need for Iginla.

I think it would be in Iginla's best interests to stay here (and by "here," I mean Calgary... and yes, I live in Calgary... ) and build himself up as a superstar and as a leader, before going elsewhere. He could become team leader here, and learn some valuable lessons. Notice that the most of the younger players develop (fuck, missed a word) more quickly on sub-par teams? Look at the Thrashers... Heatley and Kovalchuk. It's because they've had to learn everything the hard way. I think if Iginla does that, he'll mature into a great player... then move elsewhere for big money, and a Cup and what not.

So... I think he's gonna stay in Calgary.

[Hogan]

Originally posted by Swedish Sensation


...And this, my friend, is why I asked you to come here.

I don't think that Iginla will leave Calgary... he's made a pretty good home here. He's a pretty popular SOB, and he's involved in a lot of community organizations, as are most players... but most of all, he always has a smile on his face. He plays for a sub-par team, but he doesn't walk around in suits looking all stoic. He's always got a smile on his face, he's always happy, and I think he just enjoys playing the game.

Iginla is in a similar situation to what Markus Naslund went through a few years ago. Naslund was also a RFA if I'm not mistaken, and could've easily entertained offers that summer.

Instead, Naslund did the classy thing and signed with the Vancouver Canucks (5 mill a year I think). Naslund was quoted as saying that he loves Vancouver, and wants to WIN in VANCOUVER.

Iginla seems to have that same level of loyalty.

[Swedish Sensation]

Originally posted by Hogan
Iginla is in a similar situation to what Markus Naslund went through a few years ago. Naslund was also a RFA if I'm not mistaken, and could've easily entertained offers that summer.

Instead, Naslund did the classy thing and signed with the Vancouver Canucks (5 mill a year I think). Naslund was quoted as saying that he loves Vancouver, and wants to WIN in VANCOUVER.

Iginla seems to have that same level of loyalty.

I don't think Iginla has the same undying loyalty towards his team... I think it's just that he's happy in Calgary. There's no pressure, the media's generally off his ass, and it's just a relaxed atmosphere. It's a good place for hockey... we're enthusiastic about our city, and about our sports... but it's not like Toronto, where all you're gonna find is critics.

[Kid_Roll]

Originally posted by Swedish Sensation


Notice that the most of the younger players more quickly on sub-par teams? Look at the Thrashers... Heatley and Kovalchuk. It's because they've had to learn everything the hard way. I think if Iginla does that, he'll mature into a great player... then move elsewhere for big money, and a Cup and what not.

Daigle, the Sedins, Leclavier, Cloutier even.....These guys all played a lot, when they were young. I think it is more the exception, then the rule that young guys that play right away a lot turn out really good. When's the last time two rookies took hold of the league the way Heatly and Kovalchuk did? It has been a long while. I would rather see players play more in the minors then make the big jump right away. Which is what I have a bad feeling will happen to Rick Nash.

[Hogan]

Originally posted by M-Dub
He lost by one point in 2000 to Chris Pronger so he was close.

Also, Jagr won the scoring title once with 96 points in 63 games, while this season Iginla scored 96 points in 82 games.

What year was this? If it was before 97', than you have to take into account that Jagr had guys like Mario Lemieux and Ron Francis by his side.

Iginla didn't have linemates of that calibre.

Speaking of Jagr, I think the guy is a flake. Jagr is a flake, Bure is a flake, Fleury is a flake, you are a flake, and I'm not even sure about last years' number one pick (Kovulchuk).

These guys can all have their big games, but will never be able to consistently carry a team on their shoulders under pressure.

Guys like Sakic, Forsberg, Yzerman, Gretzky, Kariya, and Mario Lemieux have/had these qualities.

If you ask me, I think Jerome Iginla has this quality as well.

[Swedish Sensation]

Originally posted by Kid_Roll
Daigle, the Sedins, Leclavier, Cloutier even.....These guys all played a lot, when they were young. I think it is more the exception, then the rule that young guys that play right away a lot turn out really good. When's the last time two rookies took hold of the league the way Heatly and Kovalchuk did? It has been a long while. I would rather see players play more in the minors then make the big jump right away. Which is what I have a bad feeling will happen to Rick Nash.

I'm sorry, I missed a word... I meant to say that they develop more quickly.

You look at guys who are drafted by big teams, and for the most part, they fail... mainly because they don't get as much of a chance to play when they're on a team with a bunch of all-stars, but also, because on sub-par team, you learn the ropes more quickly. You have to learn everything the hard way, and that knowledge and experience will eventually pay off later in their careers. They also assume a bigger leadership role, which can hurt them for the first couple years of their careers, but they develop into a leader more quickly, and that's how you get these young guys tearing it up in the playoffs when they're 22-23 years old.

When you put young guys on a winning team, they don't learn the ropes as quickly, because they have a great support staff around them, and they're just another player.

This is why I think, to even up the league, only non-playoff teams should be allowed to draft. Then their players will develop from the bottom up. They'll start on a sub-par team, learn the ropes, get more playing time, and evolve into superstars in their early 20s. It's better for competition between teams, and it's much better for competition between players.

...Just thought I would elaborate on that thought. Now discuss, or I'll have wasted 4 paragraphs on you bastards...

[Zen]

....

Hogan, this is one time I totally disagree with you..do not ever compare Iginla to a guy like Jagr...Jagr is worlds away better then iggy in talent, and he also proves this whenever he steps out on the ice.
Calling him a flake is unjustified..I'm not really sure how you meant it, but jagr can do everything, and does do everything..he's not only the best player and playmaker in the game, but he does everything else that makes you complete..name a player harder to take the puck off of then jagr..in the corners and in open ice..the guy has extraordianry balance and puck control, and he isn't knocked off the puck easily at all.
And while mario was gone, he was still the best player in the game..francis is by no means at all a central reason why jagr excelled. Why? Well cuz jagr is above francis by so damn much.
Even with mario in the game right now, I still name jagr as not only the most taleted player in the game, but also the best.
You can expect to see the caps in the playoffs this year, and a better season by jags, who will now be more in sync with the club.

BTW, this reminds me...I am goona do a lil listing of the top players IMO at every different position, with some analysis as to why I think they should be there.
A bit later I'll get to that.

[Hogan]

Originally posted by Zen
....

Hogan, this is one time I totally disagree with you..do not ever compare Iginla to a guy like Jagr...Jagr is worlds away better then iggy in talent, and he also proves this whenever he steps out on the ice.
Calling him a flake is unjustified..I'm not really sure how you meant it, but jagr can do everything, and does do everything..he's not only the best player and playmaker in the game, but he does everything else that makes you complete..name a player harder to take the puck off of then jagr..in the corners and in open ice..the guy has extraordianry balance and puck control, and he isn't knocked off the puck easily at all.

oh don't get me wrong. Talent wise, Jagr blows Iginla out of the water; no question. Jagr is arguably the most talented player in the game.

However, there is still a key difference between a guy like Jagr, and guys like Yzerman, Lemieux, Sakic, Gretzky, and some others.

These guys CONSISTENTLY could be relied upon to carry a team on its back under pressure. These guys are the epitome of what a team player should be like.

Jagr on the other hand, isn't like that. Although having world class talent, his isn't quite as consistent under pressure. Also, he is much more dependent on having solid linemates, than the aforementioned guys.

Obviously, everyone is somewhat dependent on their linemates, etc., but guys like Yzerman, Sakic, Forsberg, Lidstrom, etc., are players that have the ability to bring out the best in others on a consistent basis.

I just don't think Jagr has that ability to that extent (nor does Pavel Bure, Theo Fleury, Bret Hull, Sergei Fedorov, etc.).

These types of players are players that can make a "good team" become "great", but it is always tougher to build your team around these players unless they already have a good supporting cast.

Although it is still a little early to be conclusive, I have a gut feeling that Iginla might fit into the same "mold" of Sakic, Gretzky, Yzerman, etc.

Even players who are not neccessarily superstars, can have this ability (i.e. Guy Carbonneau).

Perhaps calling Jagr was a bit harsh, but I just don't think he has all the characteristics of what really makes a "character" player.

[AcidDrop3D]

Ok its less than 24 hours away until free agency starts. Time for some predictions....

Bobby Holik- NY Rangers
Darius Kasparitus- NY Islanders
Bill Guerin- Stars or Rangers (NY is going to offer $10 million says the NY Times)
Tony Amonte- Stars
Cujo- Rangers or Redwings unless Quinn can blow him away with a deal
Selanne- Sharks. Even though Glen Sather (Rangers GM) really likes him I think he'll stay a shark
Byron Dafoe- It all depends on where Cujo doesnt go. Leafs or Wings.
Mike Richter- Flyers
Luke Richardson- Rangers
Bret Hedican- Canes will re-sign I bet.

Thats all I can think of for now.

[Zen]

.....

Good points Hogan. I see what you meant now, but I at first just thought you were bashing jagr calling him a "flake", as in he can't do certain things required for him to do here in the north american style of hockey. Jags is one of the best ever europeans to ever adapt to this style, and adapt quite well.
Anyway, we'll see what he can do for the caps this year. But I'm still not sure iggy will turn out to be like a mario or something...I wouldn't really say yzerman, cuz he's mostly always as well had other stars playing with him. But if iggy can carry the flames now, then he might be what you percieve him to one day be.

As for those free agents, I'm hoping the habs can go after either Holik or selanne. I know saku is referring teemu to the team. I hope something happens.

[Jason_HBK]

I am going nuts today. This is basically the last day the Leafs have to sign Joseph. Hopefully Pat Quinn doesn't fuck this up with his damn pride or whatever is keeping him from signing Joseph. If he goes to the Wings I will lose some respect for him. Same with Giambi and Gay-Rod in baseball. Please, please sign him. If not hopefully we sign Belfour. What a day.

[Zen]

Originally posted by Jason_HBK
I am going nuts today. This is basically the last day the Leafs have to sign Joseph. Hopefully Pat Quinn doesn't fuck this up with his damn pride or whatever is keeping him from signing Joseph. If he goes to the Wings I will lose some respect for him. Same with Giambi and Gay-Rod in baseball. Please, please sign him. If not hopefully we sign Belfour. What a day.

....

Ddidn't nashville sign belfour just yesterday? Either them or colombus, I can't remember.
Or was that them just acquiring the rights to him?

[AcidDrop3D]

Nashville got the rights to Belfour. Also San Jose got the rights to Theo Fluery.

[Hogan]

Originally posted by Zen
.....

Good points Hogan. I see what you meant now, but I at first just thought you were bashing jagr calling him a "flake", as in he can't do certain things required for him to do here in the north american style of hockey. Jags is one of the best ever europeans to ever adapt to this style, and adapt quite well.
Anyway, we'll see what he can do for the caps this year. But I'm still not sure iggy will turn out to be like a mario or something...I wouldn't really say yzerman, cuz he's mostly always as well had other stars playing with him. But if iggy can carry the flames now, then he might be what you percieve him to one day be.

As for those free agents, I'm hoping the habs can go after either Holik or selanne. I know saku is referring teemu to the team. I hope something happens.

Personally, I'm waiting to see when Paul Kariya will get traded. If Kariya plays on a team with other skilled players, this guy will set the league on fire I guarantee it.

In 1997, Paul Kariya was easily the most dangerous player in the NHL playing with Teemu Selanne and Steve Rucchin. Although the Ducks lost to the Wings that year in the playoffs, every single game was very close because of that line.

In the last 3 years or so, Kariya has been held back by an absolutely brutal Anaheim team.

[AcidDrop3D]

There were some trade rumors of Kariya going to the Kings. I hope it happens, I would like to see Kariya have some success.

[Kid_Roll]

If the Canucks could actually aford him, I would love to see them nab Karyia. Karyia and Naslund playing on the powerplay would be insane. But alas, we can't afford him, so I shall just hope and wait Bertuzzi can re-create last years success.

Sidenote, Berezin was dealt to Chicago for a 4th rounder. I thought he would be worth at least a 3rd, but I guess his value plummeted since his play in Pheonix was so bad. He was over-priced at 2.9 million though, and Montreal has Czerkaswki now, so they don't lose any scoring at least.

[Quinn]

Just saw on espn.com that the Leafs dealt CuJo to the Leafs tonight, just before the deadline. Guess the Leafs need a new goalie....

[AcidDrop3D]

The Flames now have the rights to Cujo. Also Bill Guerin is meeting with the rangers tomorrow.

[Kid_Roll]

Originally posted by isuquinndog
Just saw on espn.com that the Leafs dealt CuJo to the Leafs tonight, just before the deadline. Guess the Leafs need a new goalie....

Sweet, the Leafs dealt Cujo to themselves. Those evil geniuses.......

[Quinn]

Ah shit, acid drop had it right, I screwed it up...

"Stupid, I'm so stupid" -- the late, great Chris Farley.

[Kid_Roll]

Rangers just paid way way waaaaaaay too much money for Holik. I fucking hate the Rangers more then any other team. This city doesn't deserve another cup for a very very long time. Just like the Yankees, they get to buy their teams. ANd don't give me that shit about the Rangers spending so much, and doing so little, because all it takes is them signing and signing more all-stars, and they will find a winning combination. I hate them so much! All they do is raise the bar for other teams pay-wise, and make life harder for other teams. Wait, I hope they do win next year, because then Bettman will finally lose his f-ing crutch about how big money teams can still lose. Then maybe he will finally do something about the imbalances amongst the teams. I hate Bettman as much as I hate the Rangers!!

Sorry about the anger, I just hate seeing teams pull shit like this, and seeing the Rangers do nothing to win on their own, instead opting to just sign anyone they want. I am also annoyed at players having no loyalty anymore. Players like Linder and Yzerman are so hard to find nowadays.

[AcidDrop3D]

Cujo is a redwing.
Belfour is a Leaf.

[Mr. Boombastic]

Even though I am from Michigan and I should root for the Red Wings, I just cant do it. Is anybody else just sick of the redwings buying all of their talent and basically buying the stanley cup. They are destroying the sport of hockey like the yankees did to baseball with buying big stars with huge contracts.

[Rajah]

Why blame Detroit? Free agency is part of the game if it's not abused. Unlike the Rangers, the Wings spend their money wisely. Ken Holland (GM) specifically stated that he would not be paying ANY goalie more than $8 million per year (the same that Dominik would have made this year). It's not their fault, CuJo will accept less to play for them. Detroit got CuJo for LESS than the Rangers got Bobby Holik for. That is disgusting. I wouldn't pay Holik more than $6 million per year which is why it's the Rangers who are killing hockey.

Detroit is a model organization in my opinion. They draft half decent, they make trades, they sign appropriate free agents and they play for the present and the future.

[MTR]

I am with Rajah on this one. The RedWings are not like the Yankees. They are from the highest payroll in the league. Hell the Blues spend more money on their payroll last I checked. Detroit just makes great decisions when it comes to picking up players. Other teams have had chances to pick up players that they have. Teams had a shot at Hull last year before Detroit signed him. Detroit is just a good organization.

[MTR]

Man I can remember when Cujo got like no respect when he played for the Blues. He would do great and then no get any respect for it. Now he is like a hot free agent. Or should I say was.

[AcidDrop3D]

So just because the rangers pay their players well they are ruining hockey?

[Rajah]

They aren't paying their players just "well", they are paying them ridiculously. Bobby Holik for $9 million per year for 5 five years? Please, give me a break. If Holik gets that much, what will guys like Jagr, Sakic, Iginla want in three, four years?

There's a reason the Rangers got Bobby Holik - they offered him waaaaaay more than he was worth and Holik isn't stupid - he took it and ran.

[AcidDrop3D]

Sakic last year made $9.8
Rob Blake made $9.2.
Jagr makes $10.3 million a year.
John LeClair makes $10 million a year.
Pronger makes $9.5 million a year
Doug weight makes $9 million

These are just a few names that all make more then Holik, but yet everyone points to the Rangers.

[MTR]

They point to the Rangers because they have the highest payroll in the NHL.

[AcidDrop3D]

That wasnt the point. They complain about the Rangers overpaying when there are players in the league who make way more. And besides, who cares what a player makes?

[MTR]

Well a point others were trying to make was that they pay their players more than they are worth. Sure they are others getting paid more but they may be worth it or it is only one player on a team instead of several players on the same team being overpaid.

[Rajah]

Dude, all the players you named are far, far superior to Bobby Holik. You're saying Joe Sakic, the NHL's MVP just one year removed getting less than $1 million more than Holik is justified? I think not.

My point is that in two years, Joe Sakic and guys of his standard will want $12-$13 per year. And you know how their agents will justify it? "Look at Bobby Holik, he's barely half the player Sakic is and he's getting $9 million per year". It's all relative. By your logic, the Edmonton Oilers should pay Steve Staios $8 million per year and you wouldn't see the problem in that cause "others" are getting more!

[Rajah]

Originally posted by AcidDrop3D
That wasnt the point. They complain about the Rangers overpaying when there are players in the league who make way more. And besides, who cares what a player makes?

I care and probably thousands of Oilers, Flames, Canucks fans do as well. Living in the hometown of a small market NHL franchise, this is the reason Canadian teams can't compete. I can't wait till 2004 and hopefully a new, better CBA.

[AcidDrop3D]

Holik is probably the best 2-way center in the league. Thats my logic. Also the fact that besides Lindros, the rangers have no other people that play strong down the middle. They needed him bad so they paid up.

Also, Holik is only making $7 million a year, the signing bonus was $10 million.

[Rajah]

What do you classify two-way center as? Offense/defense? Finesse/physical play? Either way, there are a bunch of players better than Holik in both departments - Forsberg, Peca, Yzerman, etc. etc.

Don't get me wrong, Holik isn't a bad player, but the guy has topped out at like 60-70 points per year, has never won or probably been nominated for the Selke Trophy and isn't exactly what one would classify as a franchise type player. And as such, is now vastly overpaid, even by today's silly standards.

[AcidDrop3D]

Sorry about that I should of been clear, when I said 2-way I meant offense/defense but he is also very physical too. I dunno really how I can justify the pay. But everything is money these days. Although it may not seem like it I am in favor of a salary cap. I like seeing teams spend wisely and finally the rangers will be forced to use their youth instead of 90% just wasting away on the Wolfpack.

[AcidDrop3D]

Anyway more news....Rangers just signed Kasparitus!

[Kid_Roll]

I care how much a player makes because it screws over the small market teams, just as Rajah said. It can't make Naslund feel too good to see how much Holik can get, when Nazzy only makes around 5 million here. I know Nazzy is loyal, but I thougth Weight was loyal to Edmonton, and then he ran the second he could get some major cash. When Nazzy becomes a UFA, it is going to be mighty hard to resist the 16 million dollar offer New York will probably throw his way.

And yeah, Rangers got Kasper. Good for them. It's fun buying hockey players for you collection. All they need left is the Selanne and the Guerin, and they are all set.

Cujo on the Wings. THat kind of annoys me. I wanted to see the Wings fall apart and be in the bottom half of the west this year. A lot of their team should be retiring, darnit! lol. It doesnt help that they got Jiri Hudler in the draft, either. It's like the league doesn't want them to ever be a bad team again, and they let such a highly touted draft pick fall to the Wings. Anyhow, I lost respect for Cujo, because I like players with loyalty, but if he wants to win he went to a good team to do it on. I can understand wanting to win a cup. Though Linden would never leave Vancouver for that reason.

On a sidenote, TSN.ca said that the Bruins are setting their sights on Selanne. What the hell is wrong with the Bruins? They dont want to pay Allison a lot of money, so they trade one of their best players, and then they MASSIVELY overpay Martin Lapointe, in a Ranger like move, and then now if they get Selanne they will have to pay him a lot of money. The Bruins make no sense.Should have kept Allison.

[Zen]

...

Yeah, I agree..teams like the rangers are souring up the game..maybe not ruining it.
They just sign every player to contracts that are higher and better than other teams are willing to pay, even if it makes no sense to do so..meaning they just wanna get lucky, hoping they struck gold with like at least one or two of every friggin 4 or 5 new players they get from every off season.
The point is, they just sign these players to take them off the market and out of other teams hands.
THAT is what they are doing..and sooner or later, as kid roll said, this will earn them a championship.
They're simply abusing their power with their high payroll capabilities.
And what will this lead to down the line? Players who see others offered huge deals, will want just as much if not more because they figure they deserve more..that they play at a much higher level, thus making salaries inflate to unjustifiable proportions. The game will eventually turn out to be like baseball, which is totally shitty right now.
Hell one day, players like domi will be making 7 million dollars just cuz they are trying to keep a salry relative to the economics and other salries of other players. Guys like domi shouldn't even be in the NHL, let alone making more then 2 million dollars. But that will one day happen, only because most of the players will now be wanting salaries more in tune with the times..and in the very near future, this means more money, not always deserved, for each and every player.
And that's not a good thing, but the rangers will have to be stopped..in fact, teams will have to be capped. Very strictly. There should be a maximum that any player can possibly make. That way, nobody can complain, those are the regulations.
They dont even have to worry about inflation out in the real world, cuz they'd be set for life anyway..so they dont need to see raises in this maximum salary type clause either.

[Zen]

......

One other thing though I just thought of...players shouldn't be so worried about what other players are making.
For example...if jagr is making 10 million a year, and then sakic starts earning 12 million a year for his next deal, jagr shouldn't have to say well then I want 13 million, cuz I'm on his lelvel of skill.
Hell if I were making 5 million a year, and somebody not as good as me was earning like 8 milion a year, I wouldn't care, cuz I'm making tons of money anyway already!! I'm making tons of money for playing a damn game!!! Hell sports in general..no athlete should be earning more then a doctor etc...but they do..for playing a game..od, players are damn greedy. They actually probably do think they even deserve what they get..when no player should make more then a million, if that much at all. But anyway, that wont change, but what can change is players worrying about other players salaries..hey, you're having fun playing what you love, and making huge money already..if you're making 5 million, you dont need another 5 million...you're set for damn life.

[Rajah]

Rangers outbid Toronto for Kasparaitis. That's what I mean...they just out-bid all the teams, even if that means:

a) that player does not deserve that salary
b) they really don't need that player

Oh well, it will be fun to see the Rangers miss the playoffs again. They haven't addressed their biggest need: a goalie, if of course Richter doesn't re-sign.

[AcidDrop3D]

But the Redwings can stock up on all hall of famers and its acceptable I guess right?

[The_shad]

Originally posted by AcidDrop3D
But the Redwings can stock up on all hall of famers and its acceptable I guess right?

The Rangers are over rating many, many players and are trying to do like the Redskins and win without knowing a damn thing about the sport. The Wings went and got good names who actually went there because they wanted to (though the money wasn't bad either ). And the Wings actually didn't add too much. Hasek was their big thing. Hull was great, but he didn't lead the team and neither did Robitaille. The leaders on O were Yzerman, Shanny, and Lindstrom. They had been there for a while. They just added depth.

But as for the Red Wings being right for stocking up, its not a case of right and wrong. How can a team be wrong for trying to win (and actually using a brain in it, unlike NY was)? On the other side, how can a team compete if they just don't have enough money to do so? There is no right or wrong in this case. It isn't fair, but life's not fair. And there is only one real solution to it, financial helps from the NHL for these underprivaledged teams. Its the only way in my view, but you cannot really say that the Wings are wrong for trying to win.

The_shad (Now let me shoot myself for defending the Wings. )

[Rajah]

Originally posted by AcidDrop3D
But the Redwings can stock up on all hall of famers and its acceptable I guess right?

Do you not understand my point or are you purposely insinuating something I didn't state? I never said I had a problem with free agency. What I have a problem with is the Rangers OVERPAYING guys and setting the precendence for outrageous salaries this year and beyond.

It's not just this year, it's happened in the past. Anyone remember New York giving Valeri Kamensky a HUGE contract just to pry him away from Colorado. What happened to Kamensky? Nothing. That's right, he's been a huge bust ever since. He did not deserve that money and Colorado was smart that they didn't try to out-bid New York. And guess what, Colorado actually made the playoffs without Kamensky while the Rangers were on the outside looking in as usual.

Get it?

[The_shad]

Originally posted by Rajah

It's not just this year, it's happened in the past. Anyone remember New York giving Valeri Kamensky a HUGE contract just to pry him away from Colorado. What happened to Kamensky? Nothing. That's right, he's been a huge bust ever since. He did not deserve that money and Colorado was smart that they didn't try to out-bid New York. And guess what, Colorado actually made the playoffs without Kamensky while the Rangers were on the outside looking in as usual.

Get it?

Hey, you just reminded me why I hate the Rangers. Valeri was one of my favorite Av's. Well, that and them trying to take Sakic away. If they actually succeeded in doing that, there would be a lot of blood in NY courtesy of me.

[Swedish Sensation]

I'm seriously hoping CuJo went to Detroit for more than a just Stanley Cup, but the evidence points in the opposite direction. The one sticking point in his negotiations with the Leafs was that he wanted 4 years, and the Leafs would only sign him for 3. Now he goes to Detroit, and does he have any trouble signing for 3 years? Nope. Apparently money wasn't an issue... so why else would he have gone to Detroit, and left his charity and his teammates behind in Toronto? I think he just wants to win a Cup before he retires... which is admirable in a way, but I don't respect players who just go to better teams so that they can get a Cup right away. Wouldn't it be more rewarding if he stayed in Toronto for 7-8 years, and helped them build from the bottom up?

[AcidDrop3D]

Originally posted by Rajah


Do you not understand my point or are you purposely insinuating something I didn't state? I never said I had a problem with free agency. What I have a problem with is the Rangers OVERPAYING guys and setting the precendence for outrageous salaries this year and beyond.

It's not just this year, it's happened in the past. Anyone remember New York giving Valeri Kamensky a HUGE contract just to pry him away from Colorado. What happened to Kamensky? Nothing. That's right, he's been a huge bust ever since. He did not deserve that money and Colorado was smart that they didn't try to out-bid New York. And guess what, Colorado actually made the playoffs without Kamensky while the Rangers were on the outside looking in as usual.

Get it?

I think I did take your point the wrong way. Anyway, im a die hard Ranger fan and i'll admit that we do overpay people and I am indeed in favor of a salary cap to level the playing field because im sick of the same few teams in contention every year. Anyway I think the Rangers are getting desperate to win and they are going to throw crazy amounts of money around to make it so.

[The_shad]

Originally posted by Swedish Sensation
I'm seriously hoping CuJo went to Detroit for more than a just Stanley Cup, but the evidence points in the opposite direction. The one sticking point in his negotiations with the Leafs was that he wanted 4 years, and the Leafs would only sign him for 3. Now he goes to Detroit, and does he have any trouble signing for 3 years? Nope. Apparently money wasn't an issue... so why else would he have gone to Detroit, and left his charity and his teammates behind in Toronto? I think he just wants to win a Cup before he retires... which is admirable in a way, but I don't respect players who just go to better teams so that they can get a Cup right away. Wouldn't it be more rewarding if he stayed in Toronto for 7-8 years, and helped them build from the bottom up?

If you were in the same position, not having been with Toronto your whole career, and you had an oppotunity to feel the glory of winning a cup, wouldn't you take it? Many would. The cup is the single biggest prize in the NHL. And CuJo probably doesn't have those 7-8 years to wait. He might only have 4. He might only have 1. He might be falling apart and if he doesn't have the health to stay in the NHL for 8 years, he just wasted his best opportunity. He is just doing what all of us want to, some of us try to, and few of us accomplish. Live a dream. And if his dream is to win a Stanley Cup, he should do anything in his power to do so. Otherwise, he just made the single biggest mistake of his life.

The_shad (It may be more rewarding the other way, but there are no guarantees that he will succeed. Detroit might repeat with this squad)

[Kid_Roll]

I am just happy my team didn't get stuck with Belfour. I have no problem with Cujo going to Detroit. I wish he would have stayed and helped out the Canadian squad. But he wants to win a cup. But he will never be on my total respect list like Yzerman, Linden, and Sakic are. These guys seem to respect their city and team so much, which is why I like them so much. Nazzy is on that list now, but I don't know if he will take less money to stay in Vancouver come UFA time.


But your ignoring the big blockbuster trade guys. Josh Holden for Jeff Farkas!!!!!!!!! I know! I couldn't believe it either! We actually got Jeff Farkas!!!!!!!!

[Rajah]

I thought Vancouver should have went after Adam Oates. Only $3.5 million per year he signed for which isn't that much in today's marketplace for one of the NHL's premier playmakers, past or present.

Imagine the thought of Oates feeding passes to Bertuzzi and/or Naslund.

[Kid_Roll]

Getting Oates would have been a big help for Vancouver in the playoffs. If anything, we should at least get Cassells back. I am still not sold on Morrison being a number one center, I think he rode the coattails of Naslund and Bertuzzi a little too much last year.

[Jason_HBK]

I am not going to comment on Cujo yet as my emotions are high. I will say that signing Belfour is a huge mistake. They should have went after Dafoe. He is young and could have been the future for the Leafs. Belfour may win us 1 cup. I say may because we have yet to see if he is as good as he was. Dafoe would have probably gotten us many cups. Is there a rule against the Leafs going after Theodore because I thought I heard something about that.