Trade Alvin Williams
Anyways, we dont need a trade, we just need a healthy team. We can be one of the East's best teams when everyne is healthy. Again, we still have our best player out and other good scorers Lamond Murray and Lenard are also out.
Trade Alvin Williams
Anyways, we dont need a trade, we just need a healthy team. We can be one of the East's best teams when everyne is healthy. Again, we still have our best player out and other good scorers Lamond Murray and Lenard are also out.
oh lord, the knicks lost to the Magic twice this session!! and they did it without Grant & Hill
grant and hill? or u mean grant hill? or harvey grant and grant hill?
I think he means Horace Grant but Im no sure
89-87...damn it. DAMN PACERS! If houston just made one more three
I say The Raptors trade back to get their draft pick because we're going down the shitter and we better get something out of playing this bad.
By the way I was away last week and this was right after Vince supposedly made the statement about how he wants to be traded. Can someone tell me what happened with that.
Vince Carter..Great Talent. Big Baby.
Vince Carter= The Randy Moss of the Nba.
Umm, Im not sure but I know that Vince never said that he wants to be traded and Im positive about that. There was only the rumor where Carter would be traded to Cleveland but that ended up being only a rumor.Originally posted by darocksez
I say The Raptors trade back to get their draft pick because we're going down the shitter and we better get something out of playing this bad.
By the way I was away last week and this was right after Vince supposedly made the statement about how he wants to be traded. Can someone tell me what happened with that.
Dont the Raps have a draft pick?
Hehe.. The Knicks Lost.. Go Wizzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
We are now tied for 6th place in the east..Not Bad
The old man missed alot of layups, but his #'s were still good 23 points, 10 boards, some assists..He still can bring it..
Knicks still rock...oh well..maybe not.
Whats up with Quentin Richardson? Last year he was like awesome this year he's doing horrible, and it isnt just because of injuries either.
Also...Dallas had trouble holding off the Clips tonight, pretty wild, huh? Clippers are doin much betterBrand is awesome...
And you canadians will be happy, the Raptors snapped the losing streak by beating the t-wolves! Mo-Pete led teh Raptors with 20 points.
Anyone else think Iverson isn't as good as everyone hypes up? I think he's far from the place where McGrady, Kobe, and Pierce are.
And thats enough of my short ramblings for now.
Last edited by Big; January 12th, 2003 at 11:09 PM.
Ya, the Raps still Rule
Anyone ever notice that Ben Wallace is awesome? He's mammouth.
Does anyone find it unbelieveable that if the wiz win tommorow against the raps they will be tied for 4th PLACE overall in the east?
But the Wiz wont win tomorrow because they wont have Stack in their lineup. HAHA feel the wrath of the injury bug. Cause Im getting sick and annoyed with it. Seriously I have never seen a team so dam injured. I mean we played good with our team last game, youll think we can come back and get another win. Then today I hear that Lindsey and Jeffreys are injured and wont play vs. the Wiz. I mean cmon its pathetic, a guy goes down every game. We were forced to sign another NBDL player otherwise we wouldnt have had enough players to play the game. And will Vince ever get back? dam
I thought they were originally rumors, but don't expect Carter to hang around Toronto much more longer. I say hed be traded to Seattle, Houston, or Boston.
Knicks got revenge against the Bulls! Yay!
Greatest player of the night gotta be Tim Duncan with almost a triple double tonight, 38 points, 16 or somethin boards, 9 assists.
The Freakin Raptors beat my wizards. That was sad.
P.S I think Me and 4 of my friends could have beat the raptors tonite. Seriously, they were playing jabronies and they beat the wiz! Someone kill me.
Sorry, but for the past five years Moss has been making plays and getting stats, never missing a game. Not one game. And this is football, full contact football, and he's 6'4 203 lbs frail, but Vince. Vince hasn't played in a long, long time, and even when he played... he didn't play.Originally posted by EL-ASSO-WIPO
Vince Carter..Great Talent. Big Baby.
Vince Carter= The Randy Moss of the Nba.Don't make the comparison plz. It hurts my feelings.
PS:
AHAHAHA VOTE DIRK IN THE ALLSTAR GAME
Other differences :Originally posted by AlphaBean
Sorry, but for the past five years Moss has been making plays and getting stats, never missing a game. Not one game. And this is football, full contact football, and he's 6'4 203 lbs frail, but Vince. Vince hasn't played in a long, long time, and even when he played... he didn't play.
PS:
AHAHAHA VOTE DIRK IN THE ALLSTAR GAME
- Vince isn't always acting like a complete jerk.
- Vince isn't a criminal.
- Moss only makes ESPN when he acts like a jerk, which is not always, in fact it's a lot less than always. In fact, he only had one incident this year, and it was an issue that was dropped for CLEARLY being entrapment. Take away the one stupid traffic cop trying to get into the news, and what do you have? ZERO instances of acting like a jerk.Originally posted by Nevermind
Other differences :
- Vince isn't always acting like a complete jerk.
- Vince isn't a criminal.
- Okay sure, Moss is a criminal, but no worse than Damon Stoudamire.
WeedRandy Moss kills little girls, because he smokes weed.
As for the traffic bs, it was bs, so bs.
Call me crazy, But I think Alphabean is Randy Moss's illegitmate love child.
I just gotta represent. I'm tired of the bad rap he gets in the national media, because nobody sees any of the good he does.
It's like Jesse Ventura. The national media portrays him as this unbelievable God of politics, when he destroyed Minnesota's economy and wrought havoc on our education etc., but you guys... yall think Jesse's a good person and Randy's a bastard.
Now back to NBA. What will happen when Yao and Shaq collide? Shaq will beat the shit out of Yao I think, because he's threatened, and he's a big fat sore loser who will say "it's all part of the game, and I hate chinks anyway."
Yao goes down tonight with an injury. Shaqs gonna abuse him. End of Ming dynasty.
Shaq is racist? What did he say? I missed it.. Anyways, lakers will win against rockets. Their reaching their peak playing level. I smell trouble.
Man, Rockets have a good team. I love how Phoenix is playing too. 2 Teams that were pretty good last year but missed the playoffs, both got into the lottery, and pick up 2 rookies that re-energize their team.
Thinking about it, the Raps need to get to the lottery. It will make them much stronger for the next few seasons to come. But still hoping for a miracle for this season, they are not out of it yet
HA,Originally posted by IbiggmikeI
Yao goes down tonight with an injury. Shaqs gonna abuse him. End of Ming dynasty.
HA.Originally posted by EL-ASSO-WIPO
Shaq is racist? What did he say? I missed it.. Anyways, lakers will win against rockets. Their reaching their peak playing level. I smell trouble.
The refs GAVE the rockets that game and dont even try and say they didnt.. Flagrant foul on Francis? MY ASS.. I hate the lakers but that was an awful call.
Just wondering, If you were a GM of any team, what trades/moves would you make? (Realistic ones, not like Kobe/ SHaq for Olden Polynice/Steve Kerr)
Nuggets should just trade Camby for someone like Vin Baker.
Question : who was the last NBA player to record a quadruple-double in a game?
Wilt The Stilt, I believe. Or was he the first? Maybe he was the only!
From what I know (found), 4 players recorded at least one quadruple double. Wilt Chamberlain isn't one of them.
oh wait, I was thinking of something else. Nate Thurmond was the first.
David Robinson was the last.
Wilt Chamberlain did the triple double double. 20+ in 3 categories.
Nate Thurmond: 22 points, 14 boards, 13 assists, 12 blocks,
Alvin Roberston: 20 points 11 boards, 10 assists, 10 steals,
Hakeem Olajuwan: 18 points 16 boards 10 assists 11 blocks,
David Robinson 34 points, 10 boards, 10 assists 10 blocks.
Thats the list, in order. 2 were Spurs players(Roberton and Robinson).
Also....I got this off a site:
Since Steals and Blocked Shots stats weren't kept before the 1973-74 season, I'm sure
there would be several more players on this list. In 1967-68, Wilt Chamberlain averaged
24.3 points, 23.8 rebounds, and led the league in assists with 8.6 per game. He also
played 46.8 minutes per game, so it wouldn't be too hard for him to have gotten 10
assists and 10 blocked shots in the same game. In 1966-67, Bill Russell averaged 13.3
points, 21.0 rebounds, and 5.8 assists. He could easily have gotten 10 blocks in several
games. Alvin Robertson probably isn't the only guard to do it. In Oscar Robertson's first
5 seasons, he played in 384 games, averaging 30.3 points, 10.4 rebounds, and 10.6 assists
in 44.4 minutes per game! It would be hard for me to believe that a very quick guard like
him who averaged a triple-double for 5 years couldn't get 10 steals a few times. And Nate
Thurmond was 33 years old when he got the most impressive quadruple-double on the list.
How many other times did he do it when he was younger?
So chances are, Wilt DID get a Quad-Double, just wasn't recorded. Man, if Wilt was only around nowadays, Fantasy NBA would rock so much more.
Lee Nailon should play for the knicks, damnit. Houston should be point, Nailon and Spree SG/SF and Othella at PF and Thomas at C with Eisley or Spoon at 6th.
Damn Knicks....lost to Miami 82 to 80.
See how people are hating on Carter cus he didnt give Jordan his spot?
Well the fans voted for Carter. If they wanted Jordan to play he would gotten the votes.
They want to see Carter over Jordan, face it kids.
Jordan dissed Carter, why should he give him his spot, after Jordan has been a dick to him.
Carter got the votes, Jordan didn't. Face it MEDIA.
I agree to a point. They should lay off Carter about not wanting to give up his spot. But at the same time Carter is an ass. Carter has only played 10 games and I think the fans should have taken that into account when voting. I would rather see players having a great seasons in there instead of someone who is a great player but hardly played due to injury. Not really Carter's fault he got voted in and he does not have to give it up but he is still an ass anyway it goes.
Carter isnt an ass, hes a really nice guy, people were dissing him before because he was too nice.
Carter was voted, because he is entertaining. Fans wanna see an exciting game, and Carter can make a game exciting.
The point of the game in my view is to see the current best players in the league showcase their talents. To me someone that has only played 10 games can not be considered one of the best up to this point in the season. He might not be an ass but he is not the nicest in the world. He has an ego and I don't always like his attitude.
The point of an All-Star game in my opinion is somthing to be enjoyed, with awesome moves.
Which Vince Carter is great at.
They wanna see a good game, as do I. So thats Carter is playing.
The All Star game is to see the season's best work together in a star-attended event.
Carter hasn't done anything to impress me this year, so he wouldn't be in my lineup
Um, what, pray tell, has Jordan said about or to Carter that has been dickish? All I've heard Jordan say about Carter and this incident sounded quite understanding to me.Originally posted by JeromeHolyfield112
See how people are hating on Carter cus he didnt give Jordan his spot?
Well the fans voted for Carter. If they wanted Jordan to play he would gotten the votes.
They want to see Carter over Jordan, face it kids.
Jordan dissed Carter, why should he give him his spot, after Jordan has been a dick to him.
Carter got the votes, Jordan didn't. Face it MEDIA.
Maybe but then Jordan wouldnt be a starter anyway. But the fact is the fans want to see Carter, not Jordan, but Carter.Originally posted by Matthew
The All Star game is to see the season's best work together in a star-attended event.
The_shad, since Carter's North Carolina days, Jordan been dissing on Carter, sayin Carter will never be a all time great, and he's overrated and all this shit.
Hmmm, well, Jordan might have something against Carter (we all have favorites and least favorites, even the stars), but I think this might be because of something else. Jordan is quite well known to start dicussion with other players on the floor and, in turn, it gets them off their game. Since Jordan is so good, he doesn't get affected by it at all. He doesn't lose his concentration and if he does, it doesn't show. He did that in his prime and he still does it now. He dismantled a charging Nuggets team alone by starting little discussions (no big task, I know, but it's stuill a whole team). This may just be taking it one step further.Originally posted by JeromeHolyfield112
The_shad, since Carter's North Carolina days, Jordan been dissing on Carter, sayin Carter will never be a all time great, and he's overrated and all this shit.
And Bluegunn, I wouldn't like that trade. I'm a Nuggets fan (one of 3 left in the world... oops, 2. One just kickmed the bucket) and Camby has a lot to contribute to the team (does his contract expire this season?). But I've grown a strong dislike, a hatred if you will, for Baker (mostly stemming from fantasy sports). i'd rather take the chance that he doesn't resign and we get nothing than to trade him off and never see what he might have brought to the Nuggets in future seasons. I mean, really, it isn't like we have much to lose anyway.
But still why would Carter offer Jordan his spot after all the shit Jordan said to him.
That is true. But the thing about this whole situation is that people like Jordan. He may be the most popular NBA player of all time. And when Carter commented on not offering his spot to Jordan, they sided with Jordan. Carter did come off as a bit of an ass in his comments:Originally posted by JeromeHolyfield112
But still why would Carter offer Jordan his spot after all the shit Jordan said to him.
"Some of you guys say I shouldn't be there," he said. "That's fine, but I think I owe it to the fans to be out there on that starting lineup, for one, because they voted me in with the amount of games that I played.
"And then to really say, 'Thanks, but no thanks.' Once again, that's a slap in the face to the fans. I might as well not show up then, in my opinion."
In all reality, Carter doesn't compete with Jordan's popularity now and he may never be able to. He's still a great player. It's all more a political issue and I'm sure it'll come to pass. But, looking back, he would have been better off saying "No comment".
Personally, I'd like to see Jordan start. He was my sole source of NBA entertainment in the dark days of the Nuggets (see 11-71 season). My highlight of that whole year was when the 11-71 Nuggets beat the 71-11 Bulls.
The-Shad, the fans voted Carter over Michael Jordan, the media is making it seem like the fans want MJ to start, but in all reality if they wanted Jordan to start, we would of gotten the votes.
Fans wanted to see Carter more then MJ it's as simple as that. It's not a slap to the face to the fans, it's a slap in the face to MJ for being the prick he was being to Carter.
Good for you Carter, dont let the haters bring you down.
While you go on about that let's all forget how the Raptors are showing a blip of life. Beating the Kings and Pacers in the same week isn't an easy task.
I don't think Carter should have even considered giving up his spot to Michael Jordan. It's pretty self-explanatory that the fans voted him in because they want to see him play. They don't want to see Carter turn around and give his spot to Jordan. Vince's focus should be on respecting the fans, not the so called veterans, especially one who has retired and came back more than once. Don't get me wrong, Jordan is the greatest player that ever lived and I concede that, but if people wanted to see him start in his last season or whatever, he would have run away with the voting.
Oh by the way, is there any player in the game right now better than Kevin Garnett? I think not.
Yes, Jason Kidd.Originally posted by Rajah
Oh by the way, is there any player in the game right now better than Kevin Garnett? I think not.
Kidd is overrated. He's only playing so good cause it's a contract year for him...and even still, he has slowed down considerably.
Tracy Mcgrady is the best at this point. Garnett is awesome as well, I feel bad for him however. He lacks leadership skills to take the twolves anywhere past the 1st round of the playoffs. Yes, he does lack a quality cast of players around him, but he has wally, and a couple other good players.
Now about the Vince /MJ allstar issue, its simple. All Vince had to say was I respect MJ and it would be an honor for me to give up my spot to someone who has done so much for the game of basketball, BUT since the fans voted me in, I must play in the game because it was their choice. Vince, the egotistical bastard he is, came off as a complete smuck by saying, " I WOULD never give up my spot". Way to go vince, you now look like an ass in many people's eyes. I do believe thats unfair, but its reality. Tmac and AI showed class and respect by offering their positions to MJ. MJ himself said he didn't want to play in the game already and wanted the young guys to show their stuff so what would have vince lost if he would showed some respect to MJ? Vince will never ever be in MJ's League. His defense is horrible, he is inconsistent and he has a ego problem. I would Take MJ NOW, ( ya i said it,) then Vince Carter of now.
P.s. MJ of the late 80's early 90's would have put his nuts on Carter's forehead.
EL-ASS-WIPO...
Why should Carter respect MJ, after MJ disrespects him? I don't give a fuck if MJ is the greatest player ever, if that punk disrespects me and asks me for my spot, I'd tell him to kiss my ass.
Carter did the right thing, everyone thought Carter was "too nice", and all this shit. But when Carter stands up for himself its wrong?
P.S. Magic Johnson schools Michael Jordan.
Sorry to break the news...but Vince Carter is the softest "superstar" of all time. What has he really done in the past 3 years or so? I have no problem with what he said about MJ not taking his spot, but it really makes me scratch my head that Vince is in that spot in the first place. I don't remember MJ disrespecting Carter or asking him for his spot anyway.
And come on, Jason Kidd had a better year last year than he's having thus far, so there goes the career year argument. And how about the Pistons game...losing by 22 points the first game Kidd ever sits out. Talk about the value of a player to a franchise.
That was my point about Kidd...he started off strong, better than he was expected to do because it was his contract year. But for the past few weeks, he hasn't even been one of the best. In fact, his last month stats read something like this:
18ppg
7 apg
5 rbg
Hardly stats to justify being the best player in the league. I'm not saying he sucks or anything, but not the league's best. And also, I never doubted his value to his franchise. There's a difference between that ("MVP") and being the best.
Originally posted by JeromeHolyfield112
P.S. Magic Johnson schools Michael Jordan.
You cannot be serious?
Go watch the 1991 Nba Finals Junior.
I thought you meant this season in general. Those stats you just posted were part of the reason why I took exception, but I understand what you mean now. I don't think I'd put him as best in the league at all right now (McGrady gets that award, he has just exploded this year), but as for MVP candidates, he still has my vote. The Nets would be hovering around .500 or below without him.Originally posted by Rajah
That was my point about Kidd...he started off strong, better than he was expected to do because it was his contract year. But for the past few weeks, he hasn't even been one of the best. In fact, his last month stats read something like this:
18ppg
7 apg
5 rbg
Hardly stats to justify being the best player in the league. I'm not saying he sucks or anything, but not the league's best. And also, I never doubted his value to his franchise. There's a difference between that ("MVP") and being the best.
And no way does Magic school Jordan, that's ridiculous.
Please, have you ever watched Magic play?
Also Bill Russell would school Jordan.
Originally posted by Rajah
I don't think Carter should have even considered giving up his spot to Michael Jordan. It's pretty self-explanatory that the fans voted him in because they want to see him play. They don't want to see Carter turn around and give his spot to Jordan. Vince's focus should be on respecting the fans, not the so called veterans, especially one who has retired and came back more than once. Don't get me wrong, Jordan is the greatest player that ever lived and I concede that, but if people wanted to see him start in his last season or whatever, he would have run away with the voting.
Oh by the way, is there any player in the game right now better than Kevin Garnett? I think not.
I didn't even see this post... just...
KG is the best player in the game. His stats aren't the greatest in any one category, but COME ON. Someone said recently, "If KG focused all his energy on one aspect of his game, he would be the best at it, no question."
He's so well-rounded that how can he possibly dominate any one statistical category? He dominates them all
Bill Russell was Mr. Defense.Originally posted by JeromeHolyfield112
Please, have you ever watched Magic play?
Also Bill Russell would school Jordan.
Magic was an outstanding player. But Mike still 0wns him.
Explain how MJ owns Magic.
I played basketball for along time know, and I can honestly say Magic played better then Jordan.
Jordan more accomplished? Yes for sure, but I think Magic was a better player.
You are INSANe. Magic was one of the greatest passers of all time and he was one of the greatest. Michael Jordan however, is in a league of his own. You have Magic who is great, and MJ who is the GREATEST.
I'm not taking anything away from Magic, but Jordan is just a freak of nature. His skills were otherwordly in his prime, which was the late 80s/early 90s (he had to play the Point one season, and damn near averaged a triple double...no one will ever do anything like that ever again), and then his SECOND prime was as a leader, which was when they won six rings. Jordan could just do things no other human could even think about doing. He was just the most unstoppable player for the longest time. And of course, he was one of the best defensive players in the league, as well.Originally posted by JeromeHolyfield112
Explain how MJ owns Magic.
I played basketball for along time know, and I can honestly say Magic played better then Jordan.
Jordan more accomplished? Yes for sure, but I think Magic was a better player.
The only player I would say comes close is Wilt Chamberlain. But that's hard to compare, not just cause of the size difference, but because of the difference in play.
Exactly!! KG is unbelievable...he scores, rebounds, blocks, and passes with the best of them, and he's pretty decent at free throws and even throws in the occasional three pointer. That's why I think he's the best overall player in the game and he's only like 26...I'd take him over Kidd any day.Originally posted by AlphaBean
I didn't even see this post... just...
KG is the best player in the game. His stats aren't the greatest in any one category, but COME ON. Someone said recently, "If KG focused all his energy on one aspect of his game, he would be the best at it, no question."
He's so well-rounded that how can he possibly dominate any one statistical category? He dominates them all
As for the Magic Johnson vs. Michael Jordan debate, I'd have to go with Jordan...he's the greatest player the game has ever seen.
But then again Jordan said he wouldnt be as good as player without Scottie Pippen. And also said that his pratices with Scottie were crazy, and both beat each other. Of course you guys will say Jordan carried Scottie, despite what MJ says himself.
Would be Jordan be as known as the greatest player without Scottie? You think Jordan can carry a team like the Denver Nuggets in his prime to the Championship without Scottie? I think both needed each other.
I don't think the 80's Lakers would be as succesful without Magic, Magic was a master. He passed beautifully. I do think a prime Magic Johnson could carry a team like the Denver Nuggets to the championship, and make someone Jwuan Howard look like a James Worthy.
I can't believe the Lakers. Can't they just go away?? I wouldn't be surprised if they nabbed the 8th spot and ran away with the title again this year. That would make me so angry.
Too bad the Knicks were asleep until the 4th quarter when they went on a 42-17 run.
Originally posted by JeromeHolyfield112
But then again Jordan said he wouldnt be as good as player without Scottie Pippen. And also said that his pratices with Scottie were crazy, and both beat each other. Of course you guys will say Jordan carried Scottie, despite what MJ says himself.
Would be Jordan be as known as the greatest player without Scottie? You think Jordan can carry a team like the Denver Nuggets in his prime to the Championship without Scottie? I think both needed each other.
I don't think the 80's Lakers would be as succesful without Magic, Magic was a master. He passed beautifully. I do think a prime Magic Johnson could carry a team like the Denver Nuggets to the championship, and make someone Jwuan Howard look like a James Worthy.
I know you didn't just compare James Worthy to Juwan Howard.
Can Jordan carry a team? Hell ya, he can. Michael Jordan at Age 40 is carrying his team to the playoffs this YEAR. In all honesty, If MJ didn't go down with knee injuries last year, the wiz would have made the playoffs as well. So, spare me the scottie talk. Yes, Scottie helped in bringing in 6 titles to chicago, but MJ is the main reason. Oh and the nuggets. The nuggets have talent, they just dont have a leader and true star. They are in the Lebron Sweepstakes however.
The Nuggets now? No, no one player can carry them. They have a few promising players (Bowen would make a great 6th man for any team. Hilario is great. Howard is almost carrying the team. Camby is... well, he's MIA so we'll soon see, but he should do well judging by his career so far) But the rest can't do it. The rest are backups on any other team at best (they are too young, too inexperienced). Tskitashvili doesn't know what the hell he is doing out there (he takes jumpers despite the fact he doesn't make them... everOriginally posted by JeromeHolyfield112
But then again Jordan said he wouldnt be as good as player without Scottie Pippen. And also said that his pratices with Scottie were crazy, and both beat each other. Of course you guys will say Jordan carried Scottie, despite what MJ says himself.
Would be Jordan be as known as the greatest player without Scottie? You think Jordan can carry a team like the Denver Nuggets in his prime to the Championship without Scottie? I think both needed each other.
I don't think the 80's Lakers would be as succesful without Magic, Magic was a master. He passed beautifully. I do think a prime Magic Johnson could carry a team like the Denver Nuggets to the championship, and make someone Juwan Howard look like a James Worthy.). And their coach, their coach is ignorant (Hopefully Doug Moe's juices are going right now and he'll want the team again
).
I do really hope we get James though. But, the problem is, we have a condition. It's called never getting the first pick despite the worst records (c'mon, just tell me they didn't deserve it once, after all their sorrow. We haven't even gotten second!) Stupid lottery.Yao Ming would have looked good here and so would James...
But the thing about Jordan is he would get you one way or another. If you said he couldn't do it, he did. If he was ahving an off night shooting, he'd kill you in assists. Remember 50 with the flu? Remember all those times he screwed the Cavs in the final seconds? Remember how the Bulls just died with him? Remeber how Jordan, a man people say is a former shell of himself is somehow taking this miserable Washington team so close to the playoffs (this year and last)? Be it not for the superstar of the century (according to ESPN), the Nuggets might have someone other than Memphis to compete for the bottom of the league with.
If a prime Magic Johnson played for the Nuggets of today, trust me he would Juwan Howard look like James Worthy.Originally posted by EL-ASSO-WIPO
I know you didn't just compare James Worthy to Juwan Howard.
Can Jordan carry a team? Hell ya, he can. Michael Jordan at Age 40 is carrying his team to the playoffs this YEAR. In all honesty, If MJ didn't go down with knee injuries last year, the wiz would have made the playoffs as well. So, spare me the scottie talk. Yes, Scottie helped in bringing in 6 titles to chicago, but MJ is the main reason. Oh and the nuggets. The nuggets have talent, they just dont have a leader and true star. They are in the Lebron Sweepstakes however.
EL-ASSO-WIPO, Michael Jordan said it himself, he was grateful to have a player like Pippen. And said it wasnt just him who brought it in, but Pippen had as much in as him.
Rodman also helped if you think about it.
I think that's called being humble. What's he supposed to say: "I could carry this team by myself" (even though he could and did)? No, he's just being a nice guy by spreading the credit around.Originally posted by JeromeHolyfield112
EL-ASSO-WIPO, Michael Jordan said it himself, he was grateful to have a player like Pippen. And said it wasnt just him who brought it in, but Pippen had as much in as him.
No Rajah, it's speaking the truth.
Jordan also said "It's ashame you will never see how great Scottie Pippen was, because he was always in the shadow of me".
Jordan didnt carry the Bulls, it was a 2 Great players, with a couple of others decent-good players.
Again...what did Pippen do when Jordan retired both times? Not much. He is a pretty good player, but even close to being in Jordan's league, let alone his level.
Magic played with some pretty good players, too. How about that guy, the leading scorer in NBA history? I forget his name.....
*** BREAKING PLAYOFF NEWS ***
I wonder what brought about this change all of a sudden.from ESPN.com
ATLANTA -- The NBA players' association and the league have agreed to expand the first round of the playoffs to a best-of-7 format starting this season, ESPN Insider's Chad Ford reported Saturday.
The players' association officially approved the change in format early Saturday. The league will make the official announcement tonight at a news conference in Atlanta.
Until this season, the first round of the NBA playoffs had been a best-of-5 format.
Something tells me that this is being done by the league to give the Lakers a better shot at advancing through the playoffs. They've been playing like shit all season, and if they even make it to the playoffs, they'll likely be a 7 or 8 seed in the West. They just want to make it more difficult for whoever has to play the Lakers in the first round.
That, or they just want to put an end to parity in general. It used to be that the top seeds NEVER lost in the first round. It is becoming more common in recent years. I think the NBA wants to put a stop to it and make sure the "better" teams advance to the next round.
This is why I can't stand the NBA. Everything just seems so rigged.
Originally posted by them69
Again...what did Pippen do when Jordan retired both times? Not much. He is a pretty good player, but even close to being in Jordan's league, let alone his level.
Scottie Pippen lead them to the Eastern Confrence finals. And lost the series because of a bad call. But he is just a "pretty good" player, and not on "great" level. Even though his teammates say he was on Jordan's level.
My opinion is that Kareem was past his prime when he started playing when Magic was playing.Magic played with some pretty good players, too. How about that guy, the leading scorer in NBA history? I forget his name.....
Kareem's prime was with the Buck's.
You ACTUALLY believe Pippen was on Jordan's level? Well ok, you're entitled to your opinion, so I think I'm through with this argument.Originally posted by JeromeHolyfield112
Scottie Pippen lead them to the Eastern Confrence finals. And lost the series because of a bad call. But he is just a "pretty good" player, and not on "great" level. Even though his teammates say he was on Jordan's level.
As for the NBA going to 7 games for the first round...I love basketball and all, but even then sometimes the first two rounds lose my interest. Another two games sure isn't gonna help. I don't get that.
Maybe in a couple years when they have time to improve their roster and give some of these kids more experience. But Juwan Howard=James Worthy when Magic is around?Originally posted by JeromeHolyfield112
If a prime Magic Johnson played for the Nuggets of today, trust me he would Juwan Howard look like James Worthy.
And, according to NBA.com, Pippen didn't lead them to the Eastern Finals, but to the Semi's.
And, you do see that now, without Jordan, Pippen is doing good, but not great with Portland (who has Sabonis and Wallace among others).
The_shad, how long have you been watching NBA? Have you ever seen Magic Johnson play in his PRIME? He was a beautiful passer, and made scorers great.
You are correct it was the Semi's but it was a badcall that knock the Bulls out of the finals.
And please, Pippen not doing great in Portland? That has to be one of the stupidest comments I heard. SO WHAT if he isnt doing great in Portland. Pippen in Portland is not Pippen's best. If you truly believe that then you lack NBA knowledge.
Also, Jordan has Stackhouse who is better then anyone on Portland. Portland is 32-16, and 4th in the Western Confrence. While Washington is 24-25 and 8th in the Eastern Confrence. A remember earlier this year when Portland faced Washington, Portland won.
Jordan also has Larry Hughes and Kwame Brown. But all this doesnt matter as both are not playing at their bests.
But then again you problay believe McGrady and Bryant are M.V.P's
But if you would like to make a comparasion between past their primes Pippen and Jordan. Pippen has the edge, as he lead his team better then Jordan.
By the way Amare Stoudamire will show why he is my Rookie of The Year and win the slam dunk contest.
Originally posted by Rajah
I think that's called being humble. What's he supposed to say: "I could carry this team by myself" (even though he could and did)? No, he's just being a nice guy by spreading the credit around.
Word Up God!
JeromeHolyfield112, Pippen was a great player but comparing him to Jordan is ridiculous. Pippen was Jordan's Robin. Jordan=Batman. Does anyone care about Robin?
Please, it wasnt just Jordan saying that about Pippen, it was Rodman, Grant, and most of the Bulls players.
And I doubt they would be humble about Pippen, since Pippen is a dickhead in the locker room.
Originally posted by JeromeHolyfield112
Also, Jordan has Stackhouse who is better then anyone on Portland. Portland is 32-16, and 4th in the Western Confrence. While Washington is 24-25 and 8th in the Eastern Confrence. A remember earlier this year when Portland faced Washington, Portland won.
ARe u mentally unstable? Portland has one of the deepest teams in the N.B.A. They have veterans on that squad. Washington has alot of rookies who are unexperienced but talented. Portland has Sheed, Scottie, Bonzi, Derek Anderson, Sabonis, and thats to name a few. They have a very deep team. And there all veterans! Washington, has Stack, who has been inconsistent this whole year and has been fighting a nagging injury lately. Kwame, is still undeveloped but has been showing signs. Larry Hughes is trying to adjust to playing the point or shooting guard. The wizards are a bunch of talented rookies trying to win around Jordan. The only reason why the wizards are #8 is because of MJ. Without him, they wouldnt be close. The Blazers are the hottest team in the N.b.a and its because their team depth and familarity with playing with each other. Not to mention that PIp is now running the point. THey have one of the highest payroles in the NBA. There expected to win! They have been dissapointments for years now.
Anyhow, then you made the following ridiculous statement.
"But if you would like to make a comparasion between past their primes Pippen and Jordan. Pippen has the edge, as he lead his team better then Jordan."
Lets put scottie pippen on the wizards and MJ on the Blazers? Id bet my left testacle that the Blazers would make it to the finals with MJ on their team.
Wow your cool insulting on the internet, your a tough guy. Cant handle a debate, so you gotta resort to name calling. How Grade 2ish. Grow up.Originally posted by EL-ASSO-WIPO
ARe u mentally unstable?
Wallace gets fouled out most games and gets suspended cus he is a hothead. Good player, who makes stupid choices.Portland has one of the deepest teams in the N.B.A. They have veterans on that squad. Washington has alot of rookies who are unexperienced but talented. Portland has Sheed, Scottie, Bonzi, Derek Anderson, Sabonis, and thats to name a few. They have a very deep team. And there all veterans!
Bonzi gots mad skills, but isnt playing to his full pontential i think.
Derek Anderson is a good player, not great, but good.
and Sabonis is not having a good season, and Sabonis is a shell of his former self. He was much better player, before playing in the NBA. Infact, if Sabonis played in his best years, he would be one of the centers in NBA history. And you would compare him along with the great centers like Hakeem, Ewing, Shaq, Robinson, Russell, etc.
Portland is a good team, and without Pippen to keep lead the team, they wouldnt be in the spot they are now.
The Wizards are #8 because they are in the Eastern Confrence, even with MJ in the Western Confrence, they would get eaten alive and left for dead.The only reason why the wizards are #8 is because of MJ. Without him, they wouldnt be close.
They havent really been dissapointing, it's because for awhile they have been facing the Lakers in the 1st Round, the best team in the NBA at the time, for a long time. Which wont happen this season. I see Portland making the Eastern Confrance finals. Pippen was doing good in the playofsf, and wasnt getting much help, and thats why they lost. They would of lost anyway, but they wouldnt have been shut out. But if the Wizards played the Lakers in the series, they would be alot worse then Portland.The Blazers are the hottest team in the N.b.a and its because their team depth and familarity with playing with each other. Not to mention that PIp is now running the point. THey have one of the highest payroles in the NBA. There expected to win! They have been dissapointments for years now.
No way, if they woulda faced the Lakers, the same result would of happened.Lets put scottie pippen on the wizards and MJ on the Blazers? Id bet my left testacle that the Blazers would make it to the finals with MJ on their team.
He may have made scorers great, but the Nuggets have about2 or 3 people who can score, period. Juwan Howard is getting his stats because he is one of a few that can shoot, not because of his talent. I have seen much of Magic in his prime (thank god for ESPN and their "games of the past" stations) and I know full well how good he is. It was a tragedy that he retired. But I know my Nuggets a whole hell of a lot better and I'll tell you that while Magic would have brought them to the playoffs probably (so would Jordan and Byrd as well along with a few others), they wouldn't go all the way on their graces alone (which would be the case considering the Nuggets' talent).Originally posted by JeromeHolyfield112
The_shad, how long have you been watching NBA? Have you ever seen Magic Johnson play in his PRIME? He was a beautiful passer, and made scorers great.
You are correct it was the Semi's but it was a badcall that knock the Bulls out of the finals.
And please, Pippen not doing great in Portland? That has to be one of the stupidest comments I heard. SO WHAT if he isnt doing great in Portland. Pippen in Portland is not Pippen's best. If you truly believe that then you lack NBA knowledge.
Also, Jordan has Stackhouse who is better then anyone on Portland. Portland is 32-16, and 4th in the Western Confrence. While Washington is 24-25 and 8th in the Eastern Confrence. A remember earlier this year when Portland faced Washington, Portland won.
Jordan also has Larry Hughes and Kwame Brown. But all this doesnt matter as both are not playing at their bests.
But then again you problay believe McGrady and Bryant are M.V.P's
But if you would like to make a comparasion between past their primes Pippen and Jordan. Pippen has the edge, as he lead his team better then Jordan.
By the way Amare Stoudamire will show why he is my Rookie of The Year and win the slam dunk contest.
And woulda shoulda coulda didn't. They should have gone farther, but they didn't. All that we know is that Chicago with Jordan at helm had 6 championships. Chicago with Pippen had 0.
And considering all the great players Portland has, he's not living up to his precident set in Chicago. You'll notice that once the Jordan dynasty was broken up and everyone went their separate ways, Pippen's numbers shot down. Jordan was much a part of Pippen. Pippen isn't at the level of Jordan, but few men are. But those 2 probably made one of the best sports duo's ever.
And, exactly, how are my comments about Pippen not being great in Portland the stupidest you have ever seen? You pretty much admitted they weren't a few sentences later.I never said anything about Pippen being in his prime in Portland. But I did just say that his stats went down when Jordan left and it is true. He didn't do as great in Houston either (about 5 ppg fewer in Houston and about 8 or 9 currently compared to his Chicago days.)
And Stackhouse being better than any Portlandite? What about Wallace? What about Sabonis (when he's healthy)?
And how did Pippen lead his team better? He only won championships with Jordan around. Portland has a lot of talent whether you believe it or not. Portland has gone far, but has been a bit disappointing in the fact that they haven't gotten past that Conference Final yet. And Jordan has only had 2 years back and he's brought a team that is a last place contender to a playoff contender (when he isn't hurt at least). I think that is better than going to a playoff contender and not bringing in anything higher than almost in the championship game.
UGGGGH I hate computers it frooze, when i just got done making a long post, anyway...
Awhile they may not have win "The Big One". They wouldnt be a crap-ass team. They might not be as good as the 80's Lakers, but still Johnson would still lead the team to be to the playoffs and be a serious Championship threat.Originally posted by The_shad
He may have made scorers great, but the Nuggets have about2 or 3 people who can score, period. Juwan Howard is getting his stats because he is one of a few that can shoot, not because of his talent. I have seen much of Magic in his prime (thank god for ESPN and their "games of the past" stations) and I know full well how good he is. It was a tragedy that he retired. But I know my Nuggets a whole hell of a lot better and I'll tell you that while Magic would have brought them to the playoffs probably (so would Jordan and Byrd as well along with a few others), they wouldn't go all the way on their graces alone (which would be the case considering the Nuggets' talent).
Jordan Championship Rings without Pippen - 0. Jordan didnt start getting the rings until Pippen came around and hit his peak.And woulda shoulda coulda didn't. They should have gone farther, but they didn't. All that we know is that Chicago with Jordan at helm had 6 championships. Chicago with Pippen had 0.
I said Pippen was a great leader, not a great player in Portland. Paul Peirce is the best player for Boston, but Antonie Walker is the leader, as he rallies the players, and makes them give a damn.And, exactly, how are my comments about Pippen not being great in Portland the stupidest you have ever seen? You pretty much admitted they weren't a few sentences later.
Golly gee, could it be because he is in decline?I never said anything about Pippen being in his prime in Portland. But I did just say that his stats went down when Jordan left and it is true.
Still took Houston to the playoffs, and a 31-19 record.He didn't do as great in Houston either (about 5 ppg fewer in Houston and about 8 or 9 currently compared to his Chicago days.)
Stackhouse is a better player Wallace, as he isnt a hothead tempered freak. Look at Stackhouse stats compared to Wallace.And Stackhouse being better than any Portlandite? What about Wallace?
Stackhouse
PPG - 22.5
RPG - 4.0
APG - 4.8
Wallace
PPG - 18.0
RPG - 8.0
APG - 2.3
Like I said Sabonis is a shell of his formerself. No way is he better then Stackhouse.What about Sabonis (when he's healthy)?
Right now Jordan is healthy and they cant pull out a .500 win average. And luckily they are in the East.Portland has been in the playoffs many times and has done quite well in years past. The Wizards haven't been good in a while. Remember last year? The Wiz were actually competitive before Jordan got hurt and then their playoff dreams died.
Like I said Jordan only won Rings when Pippen was around. And Pippen lead Portland to the playoffs, and got knocked out by the Champions.And how did Pippen lead his team better? He only won championships with Jordan around.
Who dont reach their full pontential, like Wallace.Portland has a lot of talent whether you believe it or not.
Yeah maybe because they faced the NBA Champions, you think the Washington Wizards would do better againest Shaq and Kobe with Horry as a clutch shooter?Portland has gone far, but has been a bit disappointing in the fact that they haven't gotten past that Conference Final yet.
While its true he made them better, they still aint a good team.And Jordan has only had 2 years back and he's brought a team that is a last place contender to a playoff contender (when he isn't hurt at least).
That sucks. I remember losing a lot of posts to server down messages about 6 months ago. Luckily, it prepared me for this recent server crisis.Originally posted by JeromeHolyfield112
UGGGGH I hate computers it frooze, when i just got done making a long post, anyway...
As much as I'd like to beleive that they could be a serious championship contender with only adding one player, I just can't see it happening. Magic can't play every minute and in the time he rested, the team really would know how to fall apart. Usually, the team gives up maybe 6 points in a row in the second half, gets flustered, and falls apart. By the time Magic gets back on the court in a lot of games, it'd already be lost because of a young (youngest in the league), inexperienced team. We need to get another veteran or two, then I could see Magic or Jordan leading a serious threat.Originally posted by JeromeHolyfield112
Awhile they may not have win "The Big One". They wouldnt be a crap-ass team. They might not be as good as the 80's Lakers, but still Johnson would still lead the team to be to the playoffs and be a serious Championship threat.
True, true. I'll give you that.Originally posted by JeromeHolyfield112
Jordan Championship Rings without Pippen - 0. Jordan didnt start getting the rings until Pippen came around and hit his peak.
Well, Portland is very talented, but their potencial is still being wasted. When Sabonis was healthy, they had actual competition for Shaq (the only team that could really boast that they had someone who could somewhat deal with him). After all this time playing the Lakers, they probably could have taken maybe one playoff series and at least not gotten shutout so much. So, it really begs to ask how well Pippen is leading them.Originally posted by JeromeHolyfield112
I said Pippen was a great leader, not a great player in Portland. Paul Peirce is the best player for Boston, but Antonie Walker is the leader, as he rallies the players, and makes them give a damn.
Jordan's number's were pretty constant with or without Pippen (before age got to him in this recent unretirement). Pippen's were only at their highest with Jordan. When he went down to a good Houston outfit (Olajuwon, Barkley and Pippen) and then Portland.Originally posted by JeromeHolyfield112
Golly gee, could it be because he is in decline?
He had Olajuwon and Bearkley with him and they didn't make it past round 1. And Pippen was getting 5 ppg less at that time.Originally posted by JeromeHolyfield112
Still took Houston to the playoffs, and a 31-19 record.
Well, Wallace does get twice as many rebounds per game and he has better FG and 3 Point percentages. He doesn't get as many assists, but if he had equal shots to Stackhouse, his points would be higher. The biggest detract, though, is the temper.Originally posted by JeromeHolyfield112
Stackhouse is a better player Wallace, as he isnt a hothead tempered freak. Look at Stackhouse stats compared to Wallace.
Stackhouse
PPG - 22.5
RPG - 4.0
APG - 4.8
Wallace
PPG - 18.0
RPG - 8.0
APG - 2.3
Well, he is battling injuries and all. If it is possible for him to ever get back to his past self (which may not happen), I'd call him better. Strangely enough, his FG %'s are still better than Stackhouse's.Originally posted by JeromeHolyfield112
Like I said Sabonis is a shell of his formerself. No way is he better then Stackhouse.
Well, you never know. They are the current 8th seed and at any given moment, they could go on a streak. Still, .500 is pretty spectacular considering their roster. Witout Jordan, they are about equivalent to the Nuggets.Originally posted by JeromeHolyfield112
Right now Jordan is healthy and they cant pull out a .500 win average. And luckily they are in the East.
Pippen led a very good team to the playoffs and got knocked out by the champs. Once they got close, but other times, it wasn't even funny how badly they lost.Originally posted by JeromeHolyfield112
Like I said Jordan only won Rings when Pippen was around. And Pippen lead Portland to the playoffs, and got knocked out by the Champions.
A leader brings out the full potencial in people. The Bulls were able to keep Rodman under control better than anyone else and look what that got them. And I'd say Rodman is a lot harder to control than Wallace. Yet, Wallace is still out of control.Originally posted by JeromeHolyfield112
Who dont reach their full pontential, like Wallace.
Put Jordan on Portland and yea, I think he would do better against the champs.Originally posted by JeromeHolyfield112
Yeah maybe because they faced the NBA Champions, you think the Washington Wizards would do better againest Shaq and Kobe with Horry as a clutch shooter?
Which is exactly what the Nuggets would look like with Magic. It's a team game and one man can only do so much. It's still amazing to me that they are a playoff team currently.Originally posted by JeromeHolyfield112
While its true he made them better, they still aint a good team.
Of course jordan hasnt won any rings without pippen, and pippen hasnt won any without jordan, all championship teams always have 2 great players to lead them, theres very few to none nba champions who won the title on the sole realiance of one person, jordan had pippen,shaq has kobe,robinson had duncan,isiah thomas had joe dumarsmagic had kareem, if any of these players did have the other im pretty sure they wouldn't of won the championships, they might of but its kinda doubtful. You guys make it sound like jordan and pippen suck cause they cant win without another when in reality all great champions in the past has had someone equally as good to help out.
I totally agree with this. This is why the Nuggets wouldn't be all that good with Magic and this is why the Wiz are just average. I just want to prove to him that Jordan is better.Originally posted by Stephizhot
Of course jordan hasnt won any rings without pippen, and pippen hasnt won any without jordan, all championship teams always have 2 great players to lead them, theres very few to none nba champions who won the title on the sole realiance of one person, jordan had pippen,shaq has kobe,robinson had duncan,isiah thomas had joe dumarsmagic had kareem, if any of these players did have the other im pretty sure they wouldn't of won the championships, they might of but its kinda doubtful. You guys make it sound like jordan and pippen suck cause they cant win without another when in reality all great champions in the past has had someone equally as good to help out.
SLAM DUNK COMP.
J RICH.
REVERSE BETWEEN THE LEGS.
ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!?!?!?!?
That was the ultimate.
^i saw that, man that was f'n wicked.
holy crap!!!! they really should have bigger all-stars at next years slam dunk, i mean Jefferson didn't do crap at the dunk contest
j rich is awesome, that pass to himself off of boozer's was classic. Really pissed carlos boozer off too.
I'm glad they took that wheel away that they had last year.
what did you think of the skills challenge. I thought it didnt generate that much excitement.
Before I make a long post replying to the_shads post, I just wanna say Stephizhot, thats excalty my point. Jordan needed Scottie to win the championship.
And Pippen needs Jordan.Originally posted by JeromeHolyfield112
Before I make a long post replying to the_shads post, I just wanna say Stephizhot, thats excalty my point. Jordan needed Scottie to win the championship.
See, this isnt just adding any player, this is adding in my opinion the greatest player to play the sport. Magic is that veteran you need. Because he plays with his head. He knows how to work plays, and give the ball to you in the right spot. He is a great team leader.As much as I'd like to beleive that they could be a serious championship contender with only adding one player, I just can't see it happening. Magic can't play every minute and in the time he rested, the team really would know how to fall apart. Usually, the team gives up maybe 6 points in a row in the second half, gets flustered, and falls apart. By the time Magic gets back on the court in a lot of games, it'd already be lost because of a young (youngest in the league), inexperienced team. We need to get another veteran or two, then I could see Magic or Jordan leading a serious threat.
But a player who could lead Denver all the way is Bill Russell, there is no doubt in my mind.
From watching those series, I see Pippen busting his ass off in the games, while his teammates seem to sit on their ass and not try. Pippen is trying his damn hardest to motivate the team, but they dont give a shit. They dont have the heart like some players do. They are a bunch of potheads. Sabonis is a shell of his former self, he isnt half the player he was.Well, Portland is very talented, but their potencial is still being wasted. When Sabonis was healthy, they had actual competition for Shaq (the only team that could really boast that they had someone who could somewhat deal with him). After all this time playing the Lakers, they probably could have taken maybe one playoff series and at least not gotten shutout so much. So, it really begs to ask how well Pippen is leading them.
Pippen had his best season in 1993-1994 with out Jordan, so that comment is pretty much B.S.Jordan's number's were pretty constant with or without Pippen (before age got to him in this recent unretirement). Pippen's were only at their highest with Jordan. When he went down to a good Houston outfit (Olajuwon, Barkley and Pippen) and then Portland.
All three players were shells of their former selfs, and Pippen averaged 14 points per game.He had Olajuwon and Bearkley with him and they didn't make it past round 1. And Pippen was getting 5 ppg less at that time.
Might get better statsa if he didnt get thrown out so often says it all right there.Well, Wallace does get twice as many rebounds per game and he has better FG and 3 Point percentages. He doesn't get as many assists, but if he had equal shots to Stackhouse, his points would be higher. The biggest detract, though, is the temper.
How are you suppose to contribute to your team, if your acting like a baby. Wallace needs to grow up and play the damn game.
Ugh, you dont get.Well, he is battling injuries and all. If it is possible for him to ever get back to his past self (which may not happen), I'd call him better. Strangely enough, his FG %'s are still better than Stackhouse's.
Sabonis past self wasnt in the NBA, it was in Euro.
If the Pre-Sabonis played in the NBA, IMO he would of been ranked with Bill Russell, Ewing, Hakeem, Kareem, Robinson and other great centers.
And at any given moment they can be knocked off.Well, you never know. They are the current 8th seed and at any given moment, they could go on a streak. Still, .500 is pretty spectacular considering their roster. Witout Jordan, they are about equivalent to the Nuggets.
I already rasied this issue, Pippen bust his ass off, and doesnt get much support, because Wallace is out smoking a 20 sack of weed.Pippen led a very good team to the playoffs and got knocked out by the champs. Once they got close, but other times, it wasn't even funny how badly they lost.
The Bulls kept Rodman under control?A leader brings out the full potencial in people. The Bulls were able to keep Rodman under control better than anyone else and look what that got them. And I'd say Rodman is a lot harder to control than Wallace. Yet, Wallace is still out of control.
Rephrase that to Phil Jackson kept Rodman under control.
The same Phil Jackson who kept the Kobe and Shaq fued under control.
Jackson may be the most overrated coach ever, but he builds a relationship with his players, and can keep them under control.
Please, it would be the same situation. Jordan would be working his ass off with no support.Put Jordan on Portland and yea, I think he would do better against the champs.
See, Johnson wasnt "the big" scorer. His main game is similar to Jason Kidds game right now. Passing the game to the go to guys. That same Jason Kidd who used that area, lead the New Jersey Nets(Who was consider a "Nugget team") to the NBA finals. Magic who IMO was much better then Jason Kidd(Kidd can turn out to be better then Magic), can do things with the Nuggets and turn them around the same as Kidd turned the Nets around.Which is exactly what the Nuggets would look like with Magic. It's a team game and one man can only do so much. It's still amazing to me that they are a playoff team currently.
Thats excalty my point also, I was saying before it was a 2 man team.Originally posted by The_shad
And Pippen needs Jordan.
I'd estimate that a quarter of the Nuggets squad wouldn't have a job if it weren't for the Nuggets. Another half would be backups for life. Hilario, Howard, Bowen, and the oft injured Camby (who is an IR spot pretty much) are about the only players worth a damn (Tskitashvili is talked about well, but he's quite young and really doesn't know the game. Maybe when someone like Doug Moe mentors him, maybe they'll have another). So, pretty much, Russell/ Jordan/ Johnson/ Byrd would have 3 starters (well, 2 with the way Camby is going) and the remainder backups for life starting with him. He has 2 guys that could really do much more than score 5 points regularly. Even if he scored 30 points a game and the other two got 15, they'd still need 40 points from the backups for life and shouldn't be playing players to break 100. And that isn't exactly happening often. Also, Russell/ Jordan/ Johnson/ Byrd wouldn't have any defense around them. They'd let up quite a bit of points. There is a reason the Nuggets score 80 points a game right now. I value Jordan and Magic about equally (I prefer Jordan though because his Bulls sorta pulled me through hard times with the Nuggets) as the best ever, but the Nuggets are, well, the Nuggets. The dumbasses that got rid of Mutumbo.Originally posted by JeromeHolyfield112
See, this isnt just adding any player, this is adding in my opinion the greatest player to play the sport. Magic is that veteran you need. Because he plays with his head. He knows how to work plays, and give the ball to you in the right spot. He is a great team leader.
But a player who could lead Denver all the way is Bill Russell, there is no doubt in my mind.
Well, while Pippen is trying his hardest, the team just doesn't have chemistry. I'm not sure there are many who could unite this troubled team really, but Pippen just can't. And, as for Sabonis, I think he could still do it if he didn't have so many injuries. But being a big man usually deteriorates the body so these injuries are just a part of life. It's a damn shame though.Originally posted by JeromeHolyfield112
From watching those series, I see Pippen busting his ass off in the games, while his teammates seem to sit on their ass and not try. Pippen is trying his damn hardest to motivate the team, but they dont give a shit. They dont have the heart like some players do. They are a bunch of potheads. Sabonis is a shell of his former self, he isnt half the player he was.
93 and most of 94 were just 2 seasons. He still had most eveyone that was with the Bulls except Jordan. He was thrust into the spotlight. His PPG went up, his rebounds went u, but, in turn, his TO's went up and his assists went down. He still had a core and they went up slightly. But they didn't go up dramatically. This shows a little falacy in Jordan's comment about how good Pippen was. Jordan was able to score 30 PPG with or without the great squad. Pippen was able to lead a Jacksonfied squad to the Semifinals. Jordan led a Pre Jackson team to the playoffs. And Pippen didn't lead some of these other teams like Houston or Portland past their former glory. Jordan did, has, and is.Originally posted by JeromeHolyfield112
Pippen had his best season in 1993-1994 with out Jordan, so that comment is pretty much B.S.
Houston got into the playoffs the year before. They didn't go any farther with his addition. The good team did better in the regular season, but did squat playoff wise. And he still dropped dramatically in stats despite still being on a playoff squad with or without him.Originally posted by JeromeHolyfield112
All three players were shells of their former selfs, and Pippen averaged 14 points per game.
I agree. He needs more discipline. Wallace is about 1/2 of the lost potencial problem. But Pippen, on his own, can't reform him.Originally posted by JeromeHolyfield112
Might get better statsa if he didnt get thrown out so often says it all right there.
How are you suppose to contribute to your team, if your acting like a baby. Wallace needs to grow up and play the damn game.
We'll soon see. Either way, it's a dreary team succeeding.Originally posted by JeromeHolyfield112
And at any given moment they can be knocked off.
Wherever Jordan has gone, he's elevated that team. He brought the Bulls to the playoff in the pre Jackson era. He brought them back to the title game after the first retirement. He brought the Wizards to a somewhat respectable position. Jordan would have at least advanced on the 4-3 series and possibly could have in the series later. It would have at least been closer.Originally posted by JeromeHolyfield112
Please, it would be the same situation. Jordan would be working his ass off with no support.
They only had 2 starters from the previous year and they were quite good. They didn't have amny players from the previous year and had quite some able young guys. They also didn't go through the sheer mass of players they did the year before. Kidd had more talent to work with. Russell/ Jordan/ Johnson/ Byrd wouldn't have much with the Nuggets this year. If he had the McDyess/ Van Exel/ Raef squad, he'd be able to lead them past a for sure elimination, but this squad just sucks. The Nets weren't exactly the same as the year before and I consider these young Nuggets much worse than that squad they had they year before they went to the finals. I was optimistic about this squad at one point, but then I saw them really in depth.Originally posted by JeromeHolyfield112
See, Johnson wasnt "the big" scorer. His main game is similar to Jason Kidds game right now. Passing the game to the go to guys. That same Jason Kidd who used that area, lead the New Jersey Nets(Who was consider a "Nugget team") to the NBA finals. Magic who IMO was much better then Jason Kidd(Kidd can turn out to be better then Magic), can do things with the Nuggets and turn them around the same as Kidd turned the Nets around.
Bill Russell wasnt just a "Basketball player" he was more. He was a team leader, a great player, a great coach, everything rolled in one. I rank him higher then Jordan also.Originally posted by The_shad I'd estimate that a quarter of the Nuggets squad wouldn't have a job if it weren't for the Nuggets. Another half would be backups for life. Hilario, Howard, Bowen, and the oft injured Camby (who is an IR spot pretty much) are about the only players worth a damn (Tskitashvili is talked about well, but he's quite young and really doesn't know the game. Maybe when someone like Doug Moe mentors him, maybe they'll have another). So, pretty much, Russell/ Jordan/ Johnson/ Byrd would have 3 starters (well, 2 with the way Camby is going) and the remainder backups for life starting with him. He has 2 guys that could really do much more than score 5 points regularly. Even if he scored 30 points a game and the other two got 15, they'd still need 40 points from the backups for life and shouldn't be playing players to break 100. And that isn't exactly happening often. Also, Russell/ Jordan/ Johnson/ Byrd wouldn't have any defense around them. They'd let up quite a bit of points. There is a reason the Nuggets score 80 points a game right now. I value Jordan and Magic about equally (I prefer Jordan though because his Bulls sorta pulled me through hard times with the Nuggets) as the best ever, but the Nuggets are, well, the Nuggets. The dumbasses that got rid of Mutumbo.
Russell can lead a bunch of rookies to the big game. Why? Well I wont get into it too much, I suggest you read his book.
No one can mature the team, except maybe Phil Jackson. I already explained Sabonis to you.Well, while Pippen is trying his hardest, the team just doesn't have chemistry. I'm not sure there are many who could unite this troubled team really, but Pippen just can't. And, as for Sabonis, I think he could still do it if he didn't have so many injuries. But being a big man usually deteriorates the body so these injuries are just a part of life. It's a damn shame though.
Sabonis is a shell of his formerself, he will NEVER be good as he was in Euro, injuries or not.
Have you seen Sabonis in Euro? Problay not, I rest my case.
Two Seasons or not, his stats went up, without Jordan. Assists went down? So? Who did he have to pass to? Jordan wasnt there. So they basically forced Pippen to be the main scorer for the team and did a fine job.93 and most of 94 were just 2 seasons. He still had most eveyone that was with the Bulls except Jordan. He was thrust into the spotlight. His PPG went up, his rebounds went u, but, in turn, his TO's went up and his assists went down. He still had a core and they went up slightly. But they didn't go up dramatically. This shows a little falacy in Jordan's comment about how good Pippen was. Jordan was able to score 30 PPG with or without the great squad. Pippen was able to lead a Jacksonfied squad to the Semifinals. Jordan led a Pre Jackson team to the playoffs. And Pippen didn't lead some of these other teams like Houston or Portland past their former glory. Jordan did, has, and is.
Phil Jackson did jack all to the team, he is by far the most overrated coach ever. All he does is build relationships with his teammates and make them calm. Pippen did all the work for the Bulls, and did as good as job as MJ did before him.
Who did Jordan lead to their past glory? Washington Wizards? No, they always sucked in the 90's, and still do. Pippen couldnt lead a bunch of washed up players(Including himself) in Houston, and a bunch of degerante potheads to the big game. So what? Jordan cant even motivate the TrailBlazers, why? Because they dont give a shit. Pippen busts his ass off every night, god bless him, he trys his damn hardest, and Wallace is sitting there being a big bully to the refs, smoking up with Damian Stoudamire, and acting like a child. Maybe if Wallace actually gave a shit, The Portland TrailBlazers would make the playoffs.
Trust me Portland has been my favorite team for a long time now.
Ugh, do you know Pippen was a shell of his former self? Please stop with this Houston agurement. That is not prime Pippen.Houston got into the playoffs the year before. They didn't go any farther with his addition. The good team did better in the regular season, but did squat playoff wise. And he still dropped dramatically in stats despite still being on a playoff squad with or without him.
Nor can Jordan, now that I think about it no one can.I agree. He needs more discipline. Wallace is about 1/2 of the lost potencial problem. But Pippen, on his own, can't reform him.
Orlando will knock em off.We'll soon see. Either way, it's a dreary team succeeding.
You do know the Wizards are only respectable cus they a Eastern team right? Had they been in the West, they would be easy pickins.Wherever Jordan has gone, he's elevated that team. He brought the Bulls to the playoff in the pre Jackson era. He brought them back to the title game after the first retirement. He brought the Wizards to a somewhat respectable position. Jordan would have at least advanced on the 4-3 series and possibly could have in the series later. It would have at least been closer.
All Reality, Jason Kidd really only had 2 good players on his team. Kerry Kittles, and Keith Van Horn last season. Kenyon Martin is good because a player like Kidd really upped his game, same with Lucious Harris.They only had 2 starters from the previous year and they were quite good. They didn't have amny players from the previous year and had quite some able young guys. They also didn't go through the sheer mass of players they did the year before. Kidd had more talent to work with. Russell/ Jordan/ Johnson/ Byrd wouldn't have much with the Nuggets this year. If he had the McDyess/ Van Exel/ Raef squad, he'd be able to lead them past a for sure elimination, but this squad just sucks. The Nets weren't exactly the same as the year before and I consider these young Nuggets much worse than that squad they had they year before they went to the finals. I was optimistic about this squad at one point, but then I saw them really in depth.
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