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Thread: NBA Thread

  1. #18101
    Rising Down Fro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BGMaverick View Post
    Kyrie is a great player but a terrible mouthpiece/leader for a team. He talked about how the team needed a leader earlier this season (kind of throwing shade to a small extent at a seasoned and proven vet like Horford), stepped up into the role, bickered with his teammates and then did the LeBron mea culpa (which was another shot at his teammates). He's inconsistent with his message and just not ideal for the leader role at this point.
    I wouldn't say terrible. He's not been great at leading thus far but he's a very smart and soft spoken guy and seems to be learning from his mistakes. He's still only 26 and I see him on a path to being a better leader as he enters the next phase of his career (i.e. his next contract).

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    He's had multiple instances to say something less hostile and instead was agitating, so that's enough to put him in the terrible category for me haha. The point is, he's not close to good right now in that regard and he hasn't really shown a level of consistent dependability in terms of being on the floor and wanting to be in the organization. I did say I imagine that the idea it gets more difficult as time wears on is just as possible as it getting better in terms of his progression or evolution in terms of being a leader, so I think it was a fair enough stance.

  3. #18103
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    Been a few days since the Knicks traded KP and I still think it a very good trade. Yes your franchise player has gone who requested to be traded by the way and you only got Dennis Smith Jr back. But most importantly you got rid of Tim Hardaway Jr and Courtney Lee and there massive contracts, big salary dump right there and now about 70 million dollars in cap space for 2 max player contracts. Plus 2 future first rounders, as much as train wreck Knicks are don't know what more they could've done?

  4. #18104
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    It's only really going to be ideal if they follow through and get two marquee free agents.

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    Yeah obviously we got to at least get one of KD/Kawhi/Kyrie/Butler for it to be a good deal. We’ll see in six months.

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    If it's Butler and someone smaller, that's a failure in my opinion. What has he done to be considered in that grouping you mentioned? If he's the second person with someone ranked above him that's added, I think that's closer to making good on your approach to the offseason with all of that cap space.

  7. #18107
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    Imagine KD and Kyrie with Knox, Robinson, Dennis Smith Jr and possibly Zion Williamson though.

  8. #18108
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    Quote Originally Posted by BGMaverick View Post
    If it's Butler and someone smaller, that's a failure in my opinion. What has he done to be considered in that grouping you mentioned? If he's the second person with someone ranked above him that's added, I think that's closer to making good on your approach to the offseason with all of that cap space.
    I agree, it would have to be Butler behind any of those guys.

  9. #18109
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    I think Kevin Durant lands in New York alone. I wonder if Kemba Walker would follow?

    Klay Thompson and Anthony Davis head to LA, Davis via trade and signed extension.

    Kyrie stays in Boston and pulls in Jimmy Butler.

    No fucking clue what Kawhi Leonard does with himself. It's possible he stays in Toronto, or I guess he could head to the Clippers, but that team would still be shit.

  10. #18110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Honey_Badger View Post
    I think Kevin Durant lands in New York alone. I wonder if Kemba Walker would follow?

    Klay Thompson and Anthony Davis head to LA, Davis via trade and signed extension.

    Kyrie stays in Boston and pulls in Jimmy Butler.

    No fucking clue what Kawhi Leonard does with himself. It's possible he stays in Toronto, or I guess he could head to the Clippers, but that team would still be shit.
    Why would Durant go to the Knicks alone? Why would Butler go to Boston for less money that he would get in Philly? Surely Philly would use that money they aren't paying Butler to try and pry a FA.

  11. #18111
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    KD is a mercurial guy so I can't put anything past him. Also his agent is a big Knicks guy and I'm sure the organization would or could offer him a high-level position within the organization as a sweetener. For Philly, it'll get problematic eventually because if they keep Simmons, he'll be due soon.

  12. #18112
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    Quote Originally Posted by BGMaverick View Post
    KD is a mercurial guy so I can't put anything past him. Also his agent is a big Knicks guy and I'm sure the organization would or could offer him a high-level position within the organization as a sweetener. For Philly, it'll get problematic eventually because if they keep Simmons, he'll be due soon.
    That doesn't matter. You can have 3 max guys on you roster and Embiid isn't even a max player.

  13. #18113
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    Quote Originally Posted by PurePlayer View Post
    That doesn't matter. You can have 3 max guys on you roster and Embiid isn't even a max player.
    I think it does matter to some extent. I like their situation much better if Butler moves one and they have more to work with. That doesn't necessarily make a lot of sense because they'll be playing from behind in terms of having stars but that Butler deal is going to become terrible the minute it is signed. He's not going to live up to the deal or it's extremely unlikely to presume that he will. That would likely hinder them. I guess Philly seems kind of quirky to me in the sense people are going to have perceived slights on the players, whether they're warranted or not. Embiid: can he stay healthy? Simmons: can he work in playoff series when teams dare him to shoot?

    There's stars around the corner more often than not, but it does kind of feel that the next year or two is the window to maximize the franchise-changing ones so I do think they need to make the most of what they've got right now but it's tricky.

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    Butler and Kyrie are boys, don't they want to play together?

    Also, isn't Philly already rumbling about Butler and his attitude?

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    not particularly. there was the report about joel not liking his role since the butler trade that was overblown. then there was the report about him 'aggressively challenging' brett brown during film study that got a bunch of headlines but then more info came out about how brown asked for player input and opinions, an assistant coach had nudged tj mcconnell to speak up about an issue, he was hesitant so jimmy spoke up for him as well as himself. so it's hard to gauge exactly what is going on, cause anything jimmy does is going to be a lighting rod for speculation, but the overall vibe and attitude surrounding the team seems to be good.

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    That sounds about right on the actual assessment, which is why I said or suggested that there's a lot of perceptions the team will have to work through. Anything Butler says is going to bubble up, anytime Embiid gets nicked up, or anytime Simmons has a rough shooting night...they're all going to be put under the magnifying glass. The top of the East is very puzzling because Toronto still has to prove they can perform in the playoffs, Boston is an underachieving mess, Milwaukee is unproven, and Philly is Philly.

  17. #18117
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    The Celtics have the 5th best record in the NBA. Calling them a mess might be a bit much.

  18. #18118
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    The fact that their best player is openly showing signs that he might not be fully on board beyond this season, thus making him possibly being rushed onto the trade block does make it potentially messy.

  19. #18119
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    The "LeBron is gonna trade you" chants tonight by the Pacer fans was amazing.

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    well thanks pabs. you guys certainly gave uncle elton some motivation.

    harris, marjanovic and scott to the sixers for shamet, chandler, muscala, our 2020 first round, the unprotected heat first rounder and two seconds. seeing shamet go hurts, he's gonna be real good, and i really like chandler. reports say the plan of the front office to sign harris and butler and build around this big 4, though bringing harris into play could also be seen as an insurance policy if butler flames out. bold shit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kneeneighbor View Post
    The "LeBron is gonna trade you" chants tonight by the Pacer fans was amazing.
    I wanna comment on that chant without hyperbole, but it's hard cause it was that fucking good. Take a bow Pacer fans..

  22. #18122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Honey_Badger View Post
    Butler and Kyrie are boys, don't they want to play together?

    Also, isn't Philly already rumbling about Butler and his attitude?
    Kyrie and Bulter seem destined for the Knicks. Two troublemakers and the 24/7 New York media. What could go wrong?

  23. #18123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morrison View Post
    well thanks pabs. you guys certainly gave uncle elton some motivation.

    harris, marjanovic and scott to the sixers for shamet, chandler, muscala, our 2020 first round, the unprotected heat first rounder and two seconds. seeing shamet go hurts, he's gonna be real good, and i really like chandler. reports say the plan of the front office to sign harris and butler and build around this big 4, though bringing harris into play could also be seen as an insurance policy if butler flames out. bold shit.
    I know. What the fuck raps. I bet it was that three that was taken back for the O foul that did it. Knew then they had to trade shaker which was the final piece.

    You guys probably have the best starting five in the East by a decent margin now.

  24. #18124
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    Whatever happened to Markelle Fultz?

  25. #18125
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    Quote Originally Posted by soxfanatic View Post
    Whatever happened to Markelle Fultz?
    Saw specialists and they diagnosed him with some type of nerve/shoulder thing. How true that is, is another story. Now he is in rehab and sitting on the bench with the team in street clothes. The team claims he will be back after the all star break. I am taking a wait and see approach. He could get traded for all I know.

  26. #18126
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    they're not trading him until after he comes back and they see what is up with him. unless some team offers something ridiculous for him, which aint going to happen cause his trade value is non-existent. they don't want to give him away before seeing what the diagnosis and rehab has done cause trading him for little to nothing then seeing him become a stud or even somewhat serviceable would turn the fans given how up in the air this harris and butler free agency is.

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    Oh I don't think he will get traded and don't think he should get traded either. I would love to see more of him especially if he is able to backup Simmons over McConnell

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    The "LeBron is gonna trade you" chants last night by the Pacer fans was funny.

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    Think New Orelans have played this perfect, they’ve fucked around with Lakers and now Lakers are a mess and not looking good on making the playoffs.

  30. #18130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Scott View Post
    The "LeBron is gonna trade you" chants last night by the Pacer fans was funny.
    Man I watched them recap all that stuff last night on Barstool and it was funny how much of a circus the Lakers became in that game. Dysfunction to the max. I hope they make no trades and the circus continues for another half season! Worth a watch (just the first segment):

    https://www.barstoolsports.com/bosto...ebruary-6-2019

  31. #18131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morrison View Post
    they're not trading him until after he comes back and they see what is up with him. unless some team offers something ridiculous for him, which aint going to happen cause his trade value is non-existent. they don't want to give him away before seeing what the diagnosis and rehab has done cause trading him for little to nothing then seeing him become a stud or even somewhat serviceable would turn the fans given how up in the air this harris and butler free agency is.
    well what the fuck do i know, eh?

    though a first and second for him given the insane amount of uncertainty does fall under the 'offers something ridiculous.'

  32. #18132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morrison View Post
    well what the fuck do i know, eh?

    though a first and second for him given the insane amount of uncertainty does fall under the 'offers something ridiculous.'
    I imagine the odds of it ultimately becoming three seconds are fairly high. OKC is going to have to come across some bad luck for that pick to convey as it is constructed. For whoever isn't aware, that first Orlando sent was OKC's pick. That pick is top-20 protected. So if it doesn't convey in that way, it will then become two seconds. So in that instance, unless they're ultimately able to use those picks for a player that makes an impact on the roster or are used in a nice future deal, they're relatively dud-like.
    Last edited by BGMaverick; February 7th, 2019 at 4:00 PM.

  33. #18133
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    Quote Originally Posted by BGMaverick View Post
    I imagine the odds of it ultimately becoming three seconds are fairly high. OKC is going to have to come across some bad luck for that pick to convey as it is constructed. For whoever isn't aware, that first Orlando sent was OKC's pick. That pick is top-20 protected. So if it doesn't convey in that way, it will then become two seconds. So in that instance, unless they're ultimately able to use those picks for a player that makes an impact on the roster or are used in a nice future deal, they're relatively dud-like.
    if the plan they have of retaining butler and harris goes down they'll basically be drafting for bench depth so the upside of a first rounder OR two seconds is still pretty good for a wildcard player who has been a bust thus far.

  34. #18134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morrison View Post
    if the plan they have of retaining butler and harris goes down they'll basically be drafting for bench depth so the upside of a first rounder OR two seconds is pretty good.
    Retaining both is ideal but I image each is an insurance policy for if the other ultimately isn't around. Regardless, bench depth will be required so having three seconds (again, the odds of that OKC first playing out is pretty slim) is helpful. Keep in mind, that OKC pick breaking into two picks won't come around until '22 and '23 so it's not immediate.

  35. #18135
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    yea that sounds like a great return for the #1 pick from 18 months ago


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    Ok that all-star draft was better than I thought it could be. "Is that tampering" haha.


    Also the Raps have gone all in on this season. Not a big trade from the outside but JV was the longest tenured Rap so saying goodbye to him is pretty big. Gasol will be better in the playoffs though as JV often sits due to being abused on the pick and roll which teams learn to do against him in the playoffs.

  37. #18137
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    Mirotic to the Bucks is huge for us. Gives another big that can spread the floor, gives us a scorer for when Giannis is sitting, and adds a bit of grit and muscle

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    The top of the East were the big winners. All things considered, it appears Philly overpaid for Harris but you go for it if you think you've got a chance to win. I'll really be interested to see how that all shakes out in terms of managing touches and etc for them.

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    Yep interesting trade deadline that was. Fultz to Magic I will be keeping an eye on that.

  40. #18140
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    "Pelicans will allow Anthony Davis to play for rest of season"

    how nice of them

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    Yeah I’m sure the NBAPA wouldn’t have said anything if they didn’t let him play.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pablo Diablo View Post
    Yeah Iím sure the NBAPA wouldnít have said anything if they didnít let him play.
    http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/2...-anthony-davis
    The league referred the Pelicans to rules put in place in 2017 that restrict teams from resting healthy players. The Pelicans, league sources said, were told that they would be subject to a fine of $100,000 per every game if Davis were benched.
    The league did it for them.

  43. #18143
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    And Jeff Van Gundy is not happy about it at all!

    https://twitter.com/davidfolse/statu...66032778625025

    EDIT: I think he is trying to get fired. He is still going. "Players are dumb; hard to find smart players"; "Listen the league wants Anthony Davis in LA";
    "They don't mind tampering"
    Last edited by _me; February 9th, 2019 at 12:22 AM.

  44. #18144
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    I watched Knicks last night. Billed as the battle of Zion haha. Cavs were up by 15 half time then they remembered they are tanking and let us back in it and then we were like oh shit we are tanking we’re not winning.

  45. #18145
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    So the mvp race is pretty decidedly down to a three man race at this point, yes?

    Giannis
    George
    Harden

    Who ya got?

  46. #18146
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    Giannis just over George and Harden. But it’s very close.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pablo Diablo View Post
    Giannis just over George and Harden. But it’s very close.
    Feels like Giannis has to do something to lose it. Best player on the best team the whole season…

  48. #18148
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    I feel that Harden's historic scoring season will win it.

  49. #18149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fro View Post
    I feel that Harden's historic scoring season will win it.
    His point chasing the last week or two has turned people off I think. It is clear he is more interested in scoring 30 than what happens in the game.

  50. #18150
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    I haven't watched enough NBA to make a vote myself, so I'm not saying Harden deserves it versus the other guys, but I do think he will win.

    It's funny how Russ is still breaking all these triple double records and isn't even an MVP candidate or even an NBA finals candidate. I think the NBA has a plethora of great stars doing great things right now (and it should be one of the most exciting eras) but it's dulled by the fact that the Warriors are a lock to win the title again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by _me View Post
    His point chasing the last week or two has turned people off I think. It is clear he is more interested in scoring 30 than what happens in the game.
    The last point doesn't make a lot of sense because they're winning. If they were losing or getting blown out and he just stayed in so he could continue the streak, that would make your point a little more valid. He's literally had to keep that team afloat for most of the season or they would be out of the playoff picture.

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    Quote Originally Posted by _me View Post
    His point chasing the last week or two has turned people off I think. It is clear he is more interested in scoring 30 than what happens in the game.
    The rockets are 21-10 during his scoring stretch.

    He's obviously obsessed with continuing to put up numbers, but they aren't exactly hollow either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Percussion View Post
    The rockets are 21-10 during his scoring stretch.

    He's obviously obsessed with continuing to put up numbers, but they aren't exactly hollow either.
    I was just thinking about the two times he stayed in meaningless games just for the stats. I don't think that looks like an MVP to the writers. The same way they complained about Westbrook chasing stats. And since Giannis is so universally loved by everyone, I think that gives him the edge eventually. Westbrook didn't have anyone like Giannis to compete against or he would have lost too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BGMaverick View Post
    The last point doesn't make a lot of sense because they're winning. If they were losing or getting blown out and he just stayed in so he could continue the streak, that would make your point a little more valid. He's literally had to keep that team afloat for most of the season or they would be out of the playoff picture.
    In the losses where they are getting blown out, he is in fact doing this. I watched multiple games with this being the case.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Percussion View Post
    The rockets are 21-10 during his scoring stretch.

    He's obviously obsessed with continuing to put up numbers, but they aren't exactly hollow either.
    no they aren't hollow because they are 21-10 but in the blowout losses during that same stretch he is just in the game to put up 30 points.

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    Yes, he is obviously obsessed with continuing to put up numbers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PurePlayer View Post
    In the losses where they are getting blown out, he is in fact doing this. I watched multiple games with this being the case.
    That's fine, but the general argument doesn't hold up because of their record and who has been out. If Harden was on the Bulls (Cavs, Knicks, Suns), with their record, and he was doing this, then he'd clearly being chasing numbers and caring only about that. I don't have a problem with him doing it in those fewer instances.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BGMaverick View Post
    That's fine, but the general argument doesn't hold up because of their record and who has been out. If Harden was on the Bulls (Cavs, Knicks, Suns), with their record, and he was doing this, then he'd clearly being chasing numbers and caring only about that. I don't have a problem with him doing it in those fewer instances.
    I get your point to an extent but he wouldn't be in the MVP discussion if he were on those teams.

    I don't understand why he wouldn't sit the rest of the game in a blowout (win or loss) so he can help his team when it counts down the stretch or avoid injury? Playing a full game every night to get 30 points is going to eventually take a toll on his body when it gets to the spring and summer which in turn will eliminate his team early in the playoffs.

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    Also, just because I'm bringing this up, it doesn't mean I'm fully advocating that Harden needs to be MVP. There's at least 2-3 other legit competitors for that and see no reason to get riled up if they were to win it. I was just saying it feels like a disingenuous stance to take that he's merely just hunting for points.

    Quote Originally Posted by PurePlayer View Post
    I get your point to an extent but he wouldn't be in the MVP discussion if he were on those teams.

    I don't understand why he wouldn't sit the rest of the game in a blowout (win or loss) so he can help his team when it counts down the stretch or avoid injury? Playing a full game every night to get 30 points is going to eventually take a toll on his body when it gets to the spring and summer which in turn will eliminate his team early in the playoffs.
    There would be talking heads of significance that would try to ride the streak as a reason he should be in contention but as I said, I wouldn't make him on in those instance (which I feel is consistent with what I've been saying). Based on the fact they've had two of their best three players hurt for most of the season combined (Paul most of the season and then Capela for the back half of it) and he's kept them from absolutely cratering out and he's had to do that by handling the load and then some, that's definitely worthy of being a contender for the award.

    Added to extend of your continued point: I mean, once the streak got above 10-15 and they were just staying in there, the obvious chatter was going to become about sustainability. That's a given. I can easily see why he would justify the point of staying in. He's a competitor and wants to play until the bitter end. That doesn't mean he's right, but it's a point that a player of that magnitude would have and justify. He's either showing immense amounts of durability and stamina or he'll break down.

    At this point, you could make an argument they will need their healthy players to round back into form AND he has to play at this level in order to make a run of significance.
    Last edited by BGMaverick; February 14th, 2019 at 11:12 AM.

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    I would actually put George above Harden also. But that is more to recognize George's two-way excellence than bash Harden. No one could complain if Harden wins it, I just think there are more complete options this year.

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    I think the NBA should keep the cap but not have a limit on what a single player can make. I think it would balance the league more.

    Right now the cap sits at about $100 mil and players can make about $30 mil. That allows for 3 guys at or near the max. Someone would offer LeBron or Durant $50-60 million. It would be much harder to build around those guys but they would have a hard time leaving $20 million a year on the table.

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    Without thinking too in depth about it ... I kinda really like this idea.

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    Giannis is the mvp

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    KNICKS WIN...KNICKS WIN...KNICKS WIN

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Scott View Post
    KNICKS WIN...KNICKS WIN...KNICKS WIN
    Totally hearing this in Jim Ross' voice.

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