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  1. #17601
    Donde esta la biblioteca Pablo Diablo's Avatar
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    What's the point of firing Casey. Will it make a difference? I know you have to do something and firing the coach is the easiest move. But is that really going to make a difference?

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    Pistons fired Van Gundy today. I don't know if they will get someone as good as he was, so I have mixed feelings about it.

  3. #17603
    wavy Fro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pablo Diablo View Post
    What's the point of firing Casey. Will it make a difference? I know you have to do something and firing the coach is the easiest move. But is that really going to make a difference?
    Do you think they should rebuild the roster? Trade Derozan and/or Lowry, blow it up, head back to the top of the draft? I suppose it will be hard to attract a big ticket free agent to come there although people said that about Boston too before we got Horford to sign.

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    I don't recall anyone saying that about Boston.

    Why blow it up? why not add good players to a roster that won 60 games? If not for Lebron, who knows where they finish.

  5. #17605
    Donde esta la biblioteca Pablo Diablo's Avatar
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    Toronto is much more difficult than Boston. We don't have that legacy, plus colder winters and having to deal with Canadian currency.

    Really we can't blow it up either due to contract issues. We just match-up poorly to Love and LeBron. No one has an answer for LeBron, but if you can eliminate Love the other role players can't thrive. This is the best team Toronto has ever had but it still would have been crushed in any finals match-up even if I liked our current chances against Philly and Boston. That window also was a small one since Kyrie and Hayward next season for you guys and the process continuing to develop. Toronto is stuck in playoff limbo. But I don't want us to blow it up. Watching a rebuild just means 82 games of pointlessness for a possible future. Sure it's seemingly worked for Philly, but it's not fun when the losing is happening and as disappointing as playoff failures are, regular season is still the majority of the season.

  6. #17606
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    Going into the year, we probably said there were 4-5 teams who had a shot. Warriors, Cavs, Celtics, Rockets, and Spurs(injuries). We are right on pace for that unless one of the 3-1 leaders fall apart. That is just the way the NBA is. Until the Warriors break up and Lebron retires that is what we will get almost every year.

  7. #17607
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    Quote Originally Posted by PurePlayer View Post
    I don't recall anyone saying that about Boston.

    Why blow it up? why not add good players to a roster that won 60 games? If not for Lebron, who knows where they finish.
    They're stuck in terms of cap and picks. They're a top-tier team in terms of future salary owed so that limits what they can do in trades. Sure, they have depth in terms of bench support but that's not necessarily going to ensure they can parlay that into another strong asset. Another issue is that this probably was going to be the best year to pounce. Philly is likely going to find ways to get better and their own core pieces will get better. Boston got screwed with injuries but they've already shown they've got players in house that are ready to play and will get better.

  8. #17608
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    Quote Originally Posted by BGMaverick View Post
    They're stuck in terms of cap and picks. They're a top-tier team in terms of future salary owed so that limits what they can do in trades. Sure, they have depth in terms of bench support but that's not necessarily going to ensure they can parlay that into another strong asset. Another issue is that this probably was going to be the best year to pounce. Philly is likely going to find ways to get better and their own core pieces will get better. Boston got screwed with injuries but they've already shown they've got players in house that are ready to play and will get better.
    Ok but that doesn't answer my question though? Are you saying they should blow it up or find ways to add to their current team? I am confused.

  9. #17609
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    Quote Originally Posted by PurePlayer View Post
    Ok but that doesn't answer my question though? Are you saying they should blow it up or find ways to add to their current team? I am confused.
    They need to trade one of their two best players and keep their coach.

  10. #17610
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    Got it but that's not blowing up the team which is what I was saying. i think they can get better. if they trade one of their players for something and then have some extra money to spend maybe it will improve their team

  11. #17611
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    Quote Originally Posted by PurePlayer View Post
    Got it but that's not blowing up the team which is what I was saying. i think they can get better. if they trade one of their players for something and then have some extra money to spend maybe it will improve their team
    I think they can get better, but I still feel this was probably their best season to strike. They can get better but the other teams around them are easily primed to get better as well. Probably in an exponential way too.

    They're likely taking a step back in trading one of the two, simply because they won't get equal value. They'll get some salary relief but it's likely going to take really creative trading and signings to make up for what they lose in the deal. Still, they likely need to make the move because that team is mentally washed now.

    That said, my suggestion feels like it's the safest way to try to improve. They've got a really great GM, but I wouldn't be surprised if the owner just thinks the simple fix is firing the coach.

  12. #17612
    Donde esta la biblioteca Pablo Diablo's Avatar
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    Masai is actually the President, someone else is the GM (technically but we all know Masai is making all the calls).

  13. #17613
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pablo Diablo View Post
    Masai is actually the President, someone else is the GM (technically but we all know Masai is making all the calls).
    Ah. Thanks. Didn't know the title alignment but yeah, he's the one calling the shots for personnel.

  14. #17614
    Donde esta la biblioteca Pablo Diablo's Avatar
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    I think the issue is that no one is really going to want to trade for either Derozan or Lowry. JV also gets exposed in the playoffs by any stretch big so his trade value also isn't going to be up there. Since those pieces aren't going to be movable (at least not for anything game changing) the only change you can make is the coach. Unfortunate for Casey but that's the way it goes.

  15. #17615
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pablo Diablo View Post
    I think the issue is that no one is really going to want to trade for either Derozan or Lowry. JV also gets exposed in the playoffs by any stretch big so his trade value also isn't going to be up there. Since those pieces aren't going to be movable (at least not for anything game changing) the only change you can make is the coach. Unfortunate for Casey but that's the way it goes.
    Luol Deng and Joakim Noah are the only two contracts in the league I see that are extremely hard to trade. The thing with trading either of the two Toronto guys is that they may need to trade some of their inexpensive bench depth with that player to maybe sweeten the deal for the other team. So with the fact they're not going to get equal value for the main piece, it's more than likely they're losing the deal but they're going to have to be thinking towards building off that and for future deals. It's hard to imagine that the guys can go back in the locker room and look at each other and feel like they can get over the hump. It could be seen as making a move simply to make one, but it's about trying to start the adjustment period and trusting that Masai is as good as he has shown over the years in being able to create another incarnation of this team that can be successful.

    If they can't move any of the piece, Casey becomes the sacrificial lamb. They're setting themselves up for even more trouble though because he's a really good coach. It's hard to imagine there's someone on the market right now that's definitively better than he is.

    Really tough situation for Toronto but they'll need to do what they can in terms of being proactive with one of their two best players in the trade market. Maybe they see if any of the few teams who actually have cap space this summer strike out and then see if they're interested.

  16. #17616
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    I mean one of those guys could be a good addition to the Sixers. would it take more than a first rounder for Derozan?

  17. #17617
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pablo Diablo View Post
    I think the issue is that no one is really going to want to trade for either Derozan or Lowry. JV also gets exposed in the playoffs by any stretch big so his trade value also isn't going to be up there. Since those pieces aren't going to be movable (at least not for anything game changing) the only change you can make is the coach. Unfortunate for Casey but that's the way it goes.
    Casey was just named coach of the year by his peers (votes are cast by the 30 head coaches - this isn't the true Coach of the Year award which is voted by media but the NBA coaches internal award). Brad Stevens? Did not receive any votes. Bizarre.

  18. #17618
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    Quote Originally Posted by PurePlayer View Post
    I mean one of those guys could be a good addition to the Sixers. would it take more than a first rounder for Derozan?
    I'm not sure why Philly would be invested or interested in trading an asset away for him when they can do their own cap gymnastics (which everyone seems to do, if they're at or near the cap) and go after better players like LeBron or George. They really don't even need to do the cap maneuvering because they're in a relatively good spot right now. But if Philly feels like they need to do a trade, they have ancillary or workable pieces to cobble together for someone like Leonard in San Antonio if the Spurs decide to cut losses. If they have wishes for a big fish, DeRozan will be low on that list.

  19. #17619
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    I mean if Lebron and George decide to go somewhere else. Leonard will cost them Saric, Fultz, and a first round pick. They would also have to sign him long term. DeRozan would cost less and they wouldn't have to give up a lot. he is also what they need in a guy who can score off the dribble. Sixers had to turn to TJ for that last game

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    Quote Originally Posted by PurePlayer View Post
    I mean if Lebron and George decide to go somewhere else. Leonard will cost them Saric, Fultz, and a first round pick. They would also have to sign him long term. DeRozan would cost less and they wouldn't have to give up a lot. he is also what they need in a guy who can score off the dribble. Sixers had to turn to TJ for that last game
    If Leonard is healthy, I'd be willing to pay that price. He's an amazing two-way player, and those guys don't grow on trees. Another thing is that, outside of the recent trade with Boston and Cleveland, you generally don't see teams in the same conference (especially high at the top of the standings) trading between each other.

  21. #17621
    wavy Fro's Avatar
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    Do you guys give the Rockets a chance vs the Warriors? I haven't watched hardly any Western playoffs yet so I don't have much perspective, but my gut feeling is the Warriors beat the Rockets in 5 or 6 and then cruise to another title. They are just unstoppable now that Curry is back. Do the Rockets have any studs after Harden and Paul? Those two guys aren't going to be enough, IMO, not against Curry/Durant/Klay/Draymond.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fro View Post
    Do you guys give the Rockets a chance vs the Warriors? I haven't watched hardly any Western playoffs yet so I don't have much perspective, but my gut feeling is the Warriors beat the Rockets in 5 or 6 and then cruise to another title. They are just unstoppable now that Curry is back. Do the Rockets have any studs after Harden and Paul? Those two guys aren't going to be enough, IMO, not against Curry/Durant/Klay/Draymond.
    Capela is a really nice piece for them defensively and as a bailout option on offense. They've got guys like Ariza, Gordon, and others who can shoot but I think they're so dependent on breaking defenses down and drilling the open shot. Golden State isn't a juggernaut defensively but they can definitely play high-level defense if they're focused, which they weren't most of the season. Golden State just has too much firepower, I think. I'd see Golden State in 6, but it could be 5 if Houston just gets rattled early.
    Last edited by BGMaverick; May 9th, 2018 at 12:49 PM.

  23. #17623
    GP OG Percussion's Avatar
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    If Ariza can make Durant's life difficult, and he's capable in stretches but a series is asking a lot of course. If our bench shooters are hitting. If we keep the sloppy turnovers to a minimum, looking at you Harden. If Capela can cover enough ground in the lane like he's been showing this postseason.

    GS is the favorite for a reason, and it's a number of ifs, but I don't think it's a foregone conclusion.

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    I think Golden State takes it in 6.

    This might sound obvious but Houston needs to win their 2 home games and start up 2-0 to have a shot. It's a tall task to win 2 games at Golden State.

  25. #17625
    Donde esta la biblioteca Pablo Diablo's Avatar
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    The only result that would surprise me is a sweep. I can see the Rockets beating them in 6 or 7. I can see the Warriors winning in 5, 6 or 7.

    Having said that the Rockets will now win in 5 or be swept.

  26. #17626
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    If Houston puts Capela in isolations on offense I don't know that GS has an answer. He can draw double teams and kick out to shooters all night or walk right to the rim without much trouble. Houston has a better defense than GSW right now. I predict Houston in 7.

  27. #17627
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    No Kyrie. No Hayward. Starting a 20 year old, a 21 year old, Terry Rozier and Aaron Baynes. Eastern Conference Finals. Unreal.

    Phila put up a good fight, if they sign Lebron they will be scary. Otherwise I look forward to beating them again next year.

  28. #17628
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pablo Diablo View Post
    What's the point of firing Casey.
    Is this really a thing? Or just TO media trying to fill copy/inches?

    It seems like a real dumb thing to do, from where Iím sitting: heís a real good coach, highly doubt you can find an upgrade (59 wins, FFS)...

    Iíd be looking at flipping one/more of your big three, who are each making north of $20M and pushing (on the wrong side of) 30. If you can get multiple players in return for each of them, surely you have to jump at it...there is no such thing as ďuntouchableĒ on that roster...

  29. #17629
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    They got mentally roasted in that series, so SOMETHING significant needs to happen. Letting Casey go should be very low on the list, but if they can't get anything done in the summer, it might have to move up the list. They can't expect to run it back, as is, and expect a radical turnaround.

  30. #17630
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fro View Post
    No Kyrie. No Hayward. Starting a 20 year old, a 21 year old, Terry Rozier and Aaron Baynes. Eastern Conference Finals. Unreal.

    Phila put up a good fight, if they sign Lebron they will be scary. Otherwise I look forward to beating them again next year.

    I love Boston fans bringing this up. No Kyrie means they can play better defense with Smart and Rozier out there. No Hayward meant guys like Tatum and Brown could develop into what they became.
    Also there were 3 games that could have went either way. A made shot or no turnover easily swings this series the other way. Hopefully experience and a top free agent takes the Sixers over the top.

  31. #17631
    Donde esta la biblioteca Pablo Diablo's Avatar
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    Sidenote all this talk of LeBron to Philly is one of those in theory sounds amazing but really I'm not sure how well it would actually go.

    Philly isn't overflowing with 3 point shooters and I think the spacing the Bron creates due to so much focus having to be on him is where he thrives the best.

    Obviously the team would be disgusting with talent.

  32. #17632
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    lebron wouldnt go to philly with just their current roster IMO but if they can get another superstar on board, either via FA or trade (dealing fultz?) it's possible.

    no one knows what lebron will do right now including lebron. he will see how the postseason plays out and survey the landscape of teams and other players before deciding his best move

  33. #17633
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pablo Diablo View Post
    Sidenote all this talk of LeBron to Philly is one of those in theory sounds amazing but really I'm not sure how well it would actually go.

    Philly isn't overflowing with 3 point shooters and I think the spacing the Bron creates due to so much focus having to be on him is where he thrives the best.

    Obviously the team would be disgusting with talent.
    we're were a top ten team in 3pt percentage for this past season, with reddick, saric and belinelli all hovering around 40% with covington not far behind. we're about equal with the cavs when it comes to 3pt percentage. covington and saric will be there next season. possibly lose reddick, but he has said he wants his tenure with the team to be long term and turned down more money from houston to play in philly, so i wouldnt be surprised to see him back. belinelli also chose the sixers over other teams because of the upside, and he's pretty cheap. mcconnell is also pretty good from 3 but the sample size is so much smaller cause of playing time.

    though with all that said, i don't even know if i want lebron. it'd be exciting and all, but i also dont really want him to come in and take over the team from embiid and simmons. the learning and experience gained from him would be invaluable for simmons, though.

  34. #17634
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morrison View Post
    though with all that said, i don't even know if i want lebron. it'd be exciting and all, but i also dont really want him to come in and take over the team from embiid and simmons. the learning and experience gained from him would be invaluable for simmons, though.
    The only way I see LeBron to Philly is if he wins title #4 this Summer and decides heís fine with being the facilitator to the young guns, ride their coat tails on his way to stacking more rings...if LeBron wants to be THE guy, Philly isnít a good fit for him...

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    Lebron defintiely wants to be THE guy not a facilitator

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    he wants to go somewhere that has a facilitator which the Sixers have in Simmons. I think it would be a very good fit especially if they are able to keep JJ. You can also add another wing player in the draft and hope that Fultz plays up to his potential and you have a contending roster.

    Simmons, Embiid, Saric, Lebron, JJ in the starting 5. Fultz, Covington, McConnell, Holmes, hopefully Marco, and then whoever you bring in the draft.

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    If Lebron leaves Cleveland, he should go to SA or Houston. Philly has a good thing going right now and he would mess with that mojo.

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    Fresh off winning his Coach of the Year Award, Casey has been canned.

    This was a terrible decision, by the way. I've mentioned on here, letting Casey go had to be considered as an option but it needed to be lower on the list. This tells me the organization might feel it's committed too much to the top two stars, this being a players league, and either Casey or Ujiri had to go. No matter what they do this offseason going forward, Ujiri's name probably goes up higher on the list to hit the cutting board.
    Last edited by BGMaverick; May 11th, 2018 at 11:55 AM.

  39. #17639
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    LOL Raptors.

    The failures/shortcomings of Toronto sports teams energize me...Casey will land on his feet and burn you from here to eternity.

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    For the last 25 years, hasn't it been just the failures/shortcomings of all teams in Canada across the NBA, NHL and MLB?

  41. #17641
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    Winnipeg might change that this year. They have a real good shot to give Canada a Stanley Cup.

  42. #17642
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    Going back to an earlier point of debate, Kyrie, we're eventually hitting the point where he's going to be missed. Either LeBron is going to nuke them and they'll miss Kyrie in the sense of having that go-to guy or they'll take out LeBron and then miss him against the big boys out West.

    We can cite Kyrie's defense, but he was showing better metrics in regards to that this season and it's quite clear there's a framework built in Boston where they can do a hell of a good job masking alleged weaknesses on their roster. I doubt this is going to hurt Kyrie's stock and make him seem inflated versus his actual value because this is a still a star-driven league and the last I checked, before he got hurt, they were one of the hottest teams in the league and he was an MVP candidate. Boston is in a pretty cushy situation.

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    It's a tremendous situation. Obviously I wish Kyrie and Hayward weren't hurt but Hayward's injury allowed Tatum and Brown to get much more playing time this season and Kyrie's injury has allowed Terry Rozier to emerge late. This experience will be valuable for the young bucks in addition to giving Ainge the flexibility to trade someone like Rozier if he chooses. Ainge can do nothing this offseason except fiddle with role players and field a championship roster next season.

    Also the Celtics have a 3% chance of landing the #2 or #3 pick in tomorrow night's lottery via the Lakers. If that somehow hits.... sheesh. Otherwise we get the Kings' unprotected 2019 first round pick which could also be very high.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fro View Post
    It's a tremendous situation. Obviously I wish Kyrie and Hayward weren't hurt but Hayward's injury allowed Tatum and Brown to get much more playing time this season and Kyrie's injury has allowed Terry Rozier to emerge late. This experience will be valuable for the young bucks in addition to giving Ainge the flexibility to trade someone like Rozier if he chooses. Ainge can do nothing this offseason except fiddle with role players and field a championship roster next season.

    Also the Celtics have a 3% chance of landing the #2 or #3 pick in tomorrow night's lottery via the Lakers. If that somehow hits.... sheesh. Otherwise we get the Kings' unprotected 2019 first round pick which could also be very high.
    There's an obvious situation where it gets dicey in the sense of Kyrie and Hayward completely being shells of themselves. Never like the idea of a knee being an issue for a guard as dynamic as Kyrie, and then Hayward's injury was flat out gruesome. That and in-house tension seem like the most realistic things to an internal combustion. Otherwise, things are looking damn good.

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    Unsurprisingly a game between the two best teams in the league is amazing so far.

    Shortly after posting this Warriors went Warriors.

    Then after editing that Rockets went Rockets.

    Good game.
    Last edited by Pablo Diablo; May 14th, 2018 at 10:47 PM.

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    This is the real NBA Finals.

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    Golden State shines through. Houston could not overpower that starpower.

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    It's looking like Harden is going to be burnt to a crisp by Game 3. Has to do way too much and then attempt to run around on defense.

  49. #17649
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    Nobody has the firepower to keep up with Golden State right now. Now if Leonard and Lebron went to Philly.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by PurePlayer View Post
    Nobody has the firepower to keep up with Golden State right now. Now if Leonard and Lebron went to Philly.....
    Weirdly enough, just from perceived Alpha mentalities, I think I'd rather see a combo of LeBron/George or Leonard/George rather than LeBron/Leonard.

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    I am not really a Paul George guy. Leonard is still very young that I would take him and Lebron in a second. I feel like they are in the top 5 best players in the NBA when healthy.

    1. Lebron
    2. Durant

    Then 3-5 would go Harden, Leonard, and Westbrook in some form. Maybe add Curry to the mix.

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    Will history repeat itself in LeBron leaving Cleveland after being ousted in the playoffs by the Celtics in a series his team was favored going into? Possibly so but I expect the Cavs to play a lot better tonight. LeBron will be on a mission.

    The Cavs also have a 10% chance at a top 3 pick tonight which could effect the offseason. If they hit on that, do they have the assets to bring in a guy like Kawhi themselves and thus keep LeBron for another year?

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    Tune in next week for the latest episode of Dragonball Z!

  54. #17654
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    Quote Originally Posted by PurePlayer View Post
    I am not really a Paul George guy. Leonard is still very young that I would take him and Lebron in a second. I feel like they are in the top 5 best players in the NBA when healthy.

    1. Lebron
    2. Durant

    Then 3-5 would go Harden, Leonard, and Westbrook in some form. Maybe add Curry to the mix.
    In terms of talent, there's no question (health-willing) people would run, not walk to have a Leonard/LeBron pairing over Leonard/George one. But psyche and personalities play a big role. I kind of need to see it before I believe it now with Leonard, because this whole fiasco is way off the beaten path for how he's been portrayed.

    I think what really takes things to the supreme level where Golden State is, is that while they're extremely talented (some generational) players, they seem to not be overtly full of themselves when they're on the floor. The only time you see someone getting full of themselves is when Draymond gets caught in the moment. But look at Klay, he's probably the perfect embodiment of my stance. The guy can drop 25-28 in his sleep in this offense, play pretty solid defense, and you barely hear a peep out of him.

    I think you see a relatively successful story in Houston between Harden and Paul, but I don't think that can be assumed to be the case. We've seen it before where these merging of stars don't always work.

    I think the general public is seeing now with Paul George what most regular observers of the league have known about him: he's a great player to have on your roster, but you're not really going anywhere if he's your top guy. I think the situation in OKC could be good for him (being a number 2) but Westbrook is such a magnet for everything there.

    Making him the focal point with either LA team is likely going to be rough. Having him be the third, potentially fourth option in Philly and he's going to flourish.

  55. #17655
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fro View Post
    Will history repeat itself in LeBron leaving Cleveland after being ousted in the playoffs by the Celtics in a series his team was favored going into? Possibly so but I expect the Cavs to play a lot better tonight. LeBron will be on a mission.

    The Cavs also have a 10% chance at a top 3 pick tonight which could effect the offseason. If they hit on that, do they have the assets to bring in a guy like Kawhi themselves and thus keep LeBron for another year?
    If I'm Boston, I let LeBron have a blast with the ball and keep everyone else in check. The only reason I'm giving Cleveland a chance is if LeBron goes nova and Boston slips. With Stevens, I don't think you see Boston slip.

    And if Cleveland lucks out, they don't luck out to a top-3 pick. They only shoot for the moon, i.e. the top overall pick.

  56. #17656
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    Boston is looking pretty sweet in the playoffs. 30 years of being a Celtics fan and I have to say this has been one of my favorite seasons to watch of theirs.

  57. #17657
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    Damn. Boston is still proving it and proving me wrong. I definitely have not been giving Horford enough credit for the Celtics success this season. I thought this team would fall apart without Irving. I was wrong.

    Don't even really have any players on this team I dislike. Maybe Smart, but he's not so bad and he plays his heart out every time I see him so that gives him credit in my books. I can see him getting annoying if he wins a championship though, kinda like KG.

    Shame about the fans

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    Jordan wouldn't be down 2-0 against this Celtics team.

  59. #17659
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    Give me Boston versus Golden State. I just want to see how Boston can fare against the best of the best.

  60. #17660
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    Quote Originally Posted by soxfanatic View Post
    Jordan wouldn't be down 2-0 against this Celtics team.
    Who gives a shit?

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    brown and tatum are so fun to watch. to do it on this stage at their age, they look like seasoned vets. Horford is definitely underrated. he's never been a big stat sheet player but he does it all

  62. #17662
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    Quote Originally Posted by Percussion View Post
    Who gives a shit?
    LeBron has been made into a god by the media since dethroning the Warriors two years ago. It is not all his fault, they are losing, but it is at least kinda his fault he ran Kyrie out of town.

    Also, if the Bulls lost to the Jazz in the 97 or 98 finals with Stockton and Hornachek injured for the series it kinda puts a huge dent in Jordan's GOAT argument.

    Again, I don't totally blame LeBron, but the GOAT argument for LeBron is silly when you are losing to a team without arguably their two best players in the weaker conference as well.
    Last edited by Mr. Boombastic; May 16th, 2018 at 12:07 AM.

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    Bill Russell is goat. 11 titles in 13 seasons brah, the final 2 as player/head coach

  64. #17664
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    I never saw Russell play, so I cannot argue against that. By pure success, you are absolutely correct. People tend to overlook the past, because they assume the next generation is better and dismiss the previous generation.

    My Dad is 65 and a big NBA guy and he also stands by that Russell is the best ever.

    All I know is Jordan> LeBron

  65. #17665
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Boombastic View Post
    LeBron has been made into a god by the media since dethroning the Warriors two years ago. It is not all his fault, they are losing, but it is at least kinda his fault he ran Kyrie out of town.

    Also, if the Bulls lost to the Jazz in the 97 or 98 finals with Stockton and Hornachek injured for the series it kinda puts a huge dent in Jordan's GOAT argument.

    Again, I don't totally blame LeBron, but the GOAT argument for LeBron is silly when you are losing to a team without arguably their two best players in the weaker conference as well.
    Maybe I'm missing it, but who's really going to bat for Lebron as better than Jordan?

  66. #17666
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    Millenials

    Edit: maybe too broad or a term (I think I'm a millennial myself) so I will re phrase to people 25 or younger especially teens

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    Crazy to think millennials go up to age 37. That just seems to old.

  68. #17668
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    Quote Originally Posted by virmicious View Post
    Crazy to think millennials go up to age 37. That just seems to old.
    What is even the definition

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    Maybe I'm missing it, but who's really going to bat for Lebron as better than Jordan?
    Men with hairbuns and women with chest hair?

  70. #17670
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fro View Post
    Millenials

    Edit: maybe too broad or a term (I think I'm a millennial myself) so I will re phrase to people 25 or younger especially teens
    I'm asking relative to the point being brought up out of the blue a little while ago here though. And then Boombastic pointed the finger at 'the media' and so I thought maybe there'd be someone of remote influence or platform who's making an especially strong plea for Lebron over Jordan that I may not have ever noticed.

  71. #17671
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fro View Post
    What is even the definition
    Person coming into adulthood in the new century or something like that.

  72. #17672
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    I mean there is a lot of talk about comparing Jordan and LeBron which is natural because LeBron is the best player since Jordan.

    Amazingly people who didn't get to watch a lot of Jordan will think LeBron is the GOAT because they got to see more of LeBron. It's just natural. Even if you look at all the stats it's not the same as actually seeing someone play. I mean how good a judge can I really be talking about how good Kareem was or hell even Magic and Bird?

    People play in different eras of the game, with different rules and so it's hard to tell just from stats alone how dominant a player was. Having said that the memories I have of Jordan are enough for me to put him about LeBron but to go all "haha millenials don't know what they're talking about" is faux-elitism at its finest.

  73. #17673
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    What about Kobe tho? Are we all just saying Lebron has already passed him? I'm not so sure.

    The goat discussion is kinda dumb but it's also fun.

  74. #17674
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    Oh it definitely is fun some people just get way too serious about it like they're personally being attacked if someone chooses a different GOAT.

    I do think LeBron has passed Kobe in these past couple seasons but could see the argument for Kobe.

  75. #17675
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Boombastic View Post
    LeBron has been made into a god by the media since dethroning the Warriors two years ago. It is not all his fault, they are losing, but it is at least kinda his fault he ran Kyrie out of town.

    Also, if the Bulls lost to the Jazz in the 97 or 98 finals with Stockton and Hornachek injured for the series it kinda puts a huge dent in Jordan's GOAT argument.

    Again, I don't totally blame LeBron, but the GOAT argument for LeBron is silly when you are losing to a team without arguably their two best players in the weaker conference as well.
    I'm just going to focus on the current situation and avoid the Jordan talk. It's not like LeBron is being misrepresented, to be honest. He is damn good and to be doing what he's doing in season 15, after the extra amounts of playoff basketball and international basketball he's play, is quite amazing. He does deserve a ton of grief for not doing more to keep Kyrie, but it sounds like Kyrie was pretty set on making his own path.

    At this point, it's quite clear everyone has underestimated or neglected what was happening in Boston this season. Before Kyrie went down, they were one of the more impressive teams in the league. The young studs got time to start the season, even before Kyrie went down, and have only gotten better because of it. They've got a grit and relentlessness that was just being cultivated all season long and has been maximized now. Then it goes without saying they've got a brilliant coach. Tactically he's amazing, but he's also presenting a message through the media that it's all about the team. It's hard to find much to dislike about the actual team.

    In relation to the series, they're the better team without a doubt and Cleveland has the best player without a doubt.

  76. #17676
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Boombastic View Post
    I never saw Russell play, so I cannot argue against that. By pure success, you are absolutely correct. People tend to overlook the past, because they assume the next generation is better and dismiss the previous generation.

    My Dad is 65 and a big NBA guy and he also stands by that Russell is the best ever.

    All I know is Jordan> LeBron
    the case against Russell is that for the majority of his career there were only 8 teams in the league, and even by the end of his career there were only 14 teams so those 11 titles and 5 MVPs were a tad easier to come by. And that is a pretty damning argument against him, lol. He's not the GOAT but man did he and Red dominate those early years of the league. He is top 10 to me, though one could make the case for top 5.

  77. #17677
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pablo Diablo View Post
    I mean there is a lot of talk about comparing Jordan and LeBron which is natural because LeBron is the best player since Jordan.

    Amazingly people who didn't get to watch a lot of Jordan will think LeBron is the GOAT because they got to see more of LeBron. It's just natural. Even if you look at all the stats it's not the same as actually seeing someone play. I mean how good a judge can I really be talking about how good Kareem was or hell even Magic and Bird?

    People play in different eras of the game, with different rules and so it's hard to tell just from stats alone how dominant a player was. Having said that the memories I have of Jordan are enough for me to put him about LeBron but to go all "haha millenials don't know what they're talking about" is faux-elitism at its finest.
    These guys didn't play in the 20's or something. There's gobs of footage of them well beyond their stats. You can judge rather reasonably.

  78. #17678
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    But no one is going to sit through watching old games. Sure the footage is out there, but it's not something a normal person is going to do. You might see a particularly classic game or two of theirs. But that's just it. It'll be a particularly classic game of theirs.

    People in the future will be able to look back and what they'll see are the particularly classic Jordan games, the classic Kobe games, the classic LeBron games. But just watching those isn't going to be the same of actually growing up and watching these guys dominate because you only get a snapshot.

    There are multiple players who have dozens of amazing, unstoppable games where if that's all you saw you'd think they were the greatest but in reality are not even in the conversation.

  79. #17679
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    I think there's enough context between game film, stories/anecdotes, stats, journaled league history, etc that if someone wanted to have an educated go at who was better than who they could.

    This is why I asked earlier, and in some attempt to keep the subject on a track, if there were any reputable sources making a strong Lebron>MJ claim. Because if it's just in the moment kids and whatnot, then who cares enough about that to even bother retorting. I'm sure twitter/etc are full of terribly shortsighted opinions not to be taken seriously.

    And I say all this admittedly because I find people taking potshots at Lebron for simply not being better than Jordan are kinda fucking ridiculous.

  80. #17680
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    http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/2...nba-player-all

    This is one I saw before the Cavs-Celts series started. I know ESPN isn't what it used to, but it's still a pretty big source for most people.

  81. #17681
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    That's a legit source, imo. But it's not a strong argument for one side. It's an argument to make the argument itself wishy washy as it's just trying to ruin beyond a reasonable doubt.

    Maybe it's just modern cultural polarization as a whole, or it's just the same ol' sports lines in the sand, but it gets me that people can't seem to simply say that Jordan was the best ever but Lebron has been amazing and deserves his own unique greatness recognition. They aren't mutually exclusive. The need to tear down one or the other to score points is silly.

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    MJ > Kobe > LeBron

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    Rockets with a strong bounce back game.

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    Houston with the beat down.

    Bold prediction: Cavs in 7.

  85. #17685
    aka Dixon Cox chrisrandolph1985's Avatar
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    Houston is showing me that I put too much faith in a GSW sweep, but I never expected that to happen. Still think the Warriors will take control and win out. And Cavs ain't doing shit. Lebron is already packing his bags for LA, which would be an incredibly idiotic and entertaining thing to do. Him with the Ball family would be hilarious.

  86. #17686
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    Victory margins in the Conference Finals through 6 games for both series 25, 13, 30, 13, 22, and 41.

    What the hell?!!! We have been waiting all year for this shit!

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    It has not been a good conference finals round so far, that's for sure.

    The warriors we knew were a lock over the rockets. But the east at least is still up for grabs. Game 4 should be good.

  88. #17688
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    And as much as I'd like to pipe dream that the Celtics could actually contend in the finals, the warriors will win in 5 against either eastern foe. The dynasty continues... until next year...

  89. #17689
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    I only caught the last 3 minutes of this game but man was this was bad basketball at the end

    Harden isolation
    Warriors chucking threes
    Harden isolation
    Warriors player driving recklessly to the basket

    Barely any passes lol

  90. #17690
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    the celtics are really a different team at home

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    In a more serious basketball related note. That Sterling Brown shit is maddening.

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    My dad pinned Mr Backlund Kneeneighbor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fro View Post
    the celtics are really a different team at home
    I still worry about them if it goes to 7. Simply because LeBron could go for 83 and beat them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kneeneighbor View Post
    I still worry about them if it goes to 7. Simply because LeBron could go for 83 and beat them.
    If he does, it'll be a near miracle, based on how he's looking. He's either doing a hell of an acting job or he's gassed.

  94. #17694
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    I think the Celtics could beat the Rockets in the finals.

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    Donde esta la biblioteca Pablo Diablo's Avatar
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    If they had Home advantage I’d believe it.

  96. #17696
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    Quote Originally Posted by BGMaverick View Post
    If he does, it'll be a near miracle, based on how he's looking. He's either doing a hell of an acting job or he's gassed.
    For someone that's putting up 40 points and 10 rebounds, he can still win a game on a road if needed. The game was lost last night. He is giving it his all but needs just a little help.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Pablo Diablo View Post
    If they had Home advantage I’d believe it.
    They've won one road game in like 3 months and it was a game they probably shouldn't have won.

  97. #17697
    Donde esta la biblioteca Pablo Diablo's Avatar
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    Exactly why I can’t see them even at my most generous taking a series against the Rockets. Their road play has left much to be desired.

  98. #17698
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    Quote Originally Posted by PurePlayer View Post
    For someone that's putting up 40 points and 10 rebounds, he can still win a game on a road if needed. The game was lost last night. He is giving it his all but needs just a little help.
    My strategy with LeBron and this roster is just let him get his 40-plus points and make sure no one finds lightning in a bottle by getting hot. He's special, but the other guys are not, especially against Boston. Anyone on the floor could get hot in a moment, but the odds are much more likely if they're left on an island because LeBron is getting doubled.

    Make him have to push when he wants to keep idling and Boston can probably make him run out of steam.

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    That didn't work well in game 3 and 4 and probably won't work in game 6. We all know anything can happen in a game 7. I always take the team with the best player in that situation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PurePlayer View Post
    That didn't work well in game 3 and 4 and probably won't work in game 6. We all know anything can happen in a game 7. I always take the team with the best player in that situation.
    That's because Boston is young and naÔve. It's pretty cut and dry to see neither of these teams are worth a damn when they go out on the road. Yes, anything can happen in a Game 7 but now LeBron has no margin for error and will have to keep his foot on the gas for 96 minutes. Plus, he has to hope 1-2 people come along for the ride and play. On top of that, he has to hope his coach doesn't make stupid decisions.

    I think it's more likely Boston cobbles together 48 minutes of solid basketball (whether it be at home or on the road) rather than LeBron AND anyone influencing the game for Cleveland can do it two times in a row.
    Last edited by BGMaverick; May 24th, 2018 at 4:20 PM.

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