Re-book terrible gimmicks, angles, matches, etc

[Nash Diesel]

You have to give credit to the WWE though for being able to give a quality explanation for his physical appearance. It was all in his head.

I also feel like it was hard for him to go back to the mask. I'm sure there are ways we could come up with that would be better because they had a decent idea the execution just sucked. It wasn't so much Kane as it was everything going on in the WWE especially on Raw. The fact Shield, CM Punk and Daniel Bryan were able to become big names in the industry during this time is beyond amazing. Even Ryback was killed off in season one.

[Badger]

Kane was ruined for me the second they had him start talking. First a stupid voice box, then a regular voice. Then unmasking. Kane went through a mess. I prefer 97-98 Kane by a long shot.

Silent masked Kane was cool but not really sustainable, especially since he had breathing problems with the full mask.

I don’t think talking was the problem as he was a pretty good talker in his own right. It was the awful angles they put him in such as the aforementioned Katie Vick angle that ruined his whole mystique and backstory.

[Kneeneighbor]

Who wants to rebook the Kane/Triple H feud featuring the notorious Katie Vick angle?

The name of the thread is Re-book terrible gimmicks, angles, matches etc. . . why would we redo this one?

[Donald]

Silent masked Kane was cool but not really sustainable, especially since he had breathing problems with the full mask.

I don’t think talking was the problem as he was a pretty good talker in his own right. It was the awful angles they put him in such as the aforementioned Katie Vick angle that ruined his whole mystique and backstory.

I can see thatt, and I did pop hard when he mocked the Rock and Hogan's catchphrases and then added in Kanenites.

[Donald]

The name of the thread is Re-book terrible gimmicks, angles, matches etc. . . why would we redo this one?

Most of the threads here have discussions that are not on theme with the title. For example, the Crappy Wrestling Joke thread, it's mostly filled with incredible jokes.

[Nash Diesel]

The name of the thread is Re-book terrible gimmicks, angles, matches etc. . . why would we redo this one?

Two things. He did use the word "rebook" and the other thing is, are you saying it wasn't a terrible angle?

[Nash Diesel]

Silent masked Kane was cool but not really sustainable, especially since he had breathing problems with the full mask.

I don’t think talking was the problem as he was a pretty good talker in his own right. It was the awful angles they put him in such as the aforementioned Katie Vick angle that ruined his whole mystique and backstory.

I loved this look when they opened the mouth up for him.




But I loved this mask, the one that was heavier on the black:

[Kneeneighbor]

Most of the threads here have discussions that are not on theme with the title. For example, the Crappy Wrestling Joke thread, it's mostly filled with incredible jokes.

[Eddie Brock]

I wouldn't have changed Kane's unmasking, it was the thing that rejuvenated his career that year after the Vick debacle killed him beyond repair, he had become extremely stale and needed to be freshened up, I think a world title run should've happened, at some point, after the unmasking though. Having Shane portrayed as on the same level as Kane didn't help, and then, by WMXX, he was once again back to being a jobber to the stars. His unmasking was a chance to turn him back into the unstoppable monster he was in 1997/8, but instead they continued to drop the ball with him. I think a feud between Kane and Kevin Nash in 2003 would've been cool.

[Nash Diesel]

Didn't he and Taker work each other at Mania 20?

I hated when Kane was IC champ and he lost to World champ Triple H. Then they discontinued the IC title which was arguably the dumbest thing WWE has ever done.

[Badger]

Didn't he and Taker work each other at Mania 20?

I hated when Kane was IC champ and he lost to World champ Triple H. Then they discontinued the IC title which was arguably the dumbest thing WWE has ever done.

Yeah could understand them streamlining and cutting titles like the Hardcore title which had run its course. European title I liked but could live without but definitely not the IC title. So much lineage and history.

[Nash Diesel]

Yeah could understand them streamlining and cutting titles like the Hardcore title which had run its course. European title I liked but could live without but definitely not the IC title. So much lineage and history.

Exactly. Hardcore title, Euro title, they had a place but I get it especially with the draft split. But the IC title really killed the midcard which is needed.

[WWXChairman]

Most of the threads here have discussions that are not on theme with the title. For example, the Crappy Wrestling Joke thread, it's mostly filled with incredible jokes.

How many Justin Credible jokes can there possibly be?

[Badger]

How many Justin Credible jokes can there possibly be?

Aldo know. I’ll keep Montoya informed if I hear any more.

[Bluegunn]

Ok shall we try and fix x-factor?

[Romford Pele]

Dunno if this was said already, but rebook Big Show debut in 99.

Have him debut at Mania, smash a load of jobbers and then build him up to win the title. Him losing to Austin after a month was so dumb

[Kneeneighbor]

Dunno if this was said already, but rebook Big Show debut in 99.

Have him debut at Mania, smash a load of jobbers and then build him up to win the title. Him losing to Austin after a month was so dumb

This. We were so excited for him debut and then even his 2 min at St. Valentine's Day Massacre was a let down.

[Donald]

Leave his stuff with Bossman as is though, that shit was fantastic.

[Romford Pele]

From an unintentional comedy perspective it is.

[Nash Diesel]

I was pretty sour on The Giant/Big Show by the time he debuted. His WCW booking had really sucked pretty much after the Nash feud. Him rejoining nWo Hollywood, getting massively out of shape. Plus, if you listen to all the interviews and podcasts including from the man himself, he was not in the best place. He was very arrogant, shit person. It wouldn't shocked me if his booking was a result of his lack of effort he was willing to put in. Keep mind, they sent his ass to OVW a few years later.

I also didn't care that he lost to Austin as much as people seemed to care 20 years later about it. Wins/losses did not matter during this time. The Attitude Era was running on story. Wrestling stuff like wins/losses, match quality, all took a backseat.

With Show it felt like they saw a guy who looked awesome visually that could be something bigger in WWF. What they didn't realize was how much this guy stopped giving a shit because why would he? He won the World title from Hulk Hogan in his first match.

[WWXChairman]

How about a missed opportunity?
JBL’s reign as the WWF Champion should have included at least one defense against a returning Faarooq. The promo where he introduced the cabinet would have been the perfect chance for Faarooq to interrupt.

[Kneeneighbor]

[Nash Diesel]

How about a missed opportunity?
JBL’s reign as the WWF Champion should have included at least one defense against a returning Faarooq. The promo where he introduced the cabinet would have been the perfect chance for Faarooq to interrupt.

Was Ron Simmons even wrestling when JBL won the title? He was barely able to walk when they were APA that's why they never really had long matches or even a real tag title run.

[Kneeneighbor]

Was Ron Simmons even wrestling when JBL won the title? He was barely able to walk when they were APA that's why they never really had long matches or even a real tag title run.

He was not, he was a back stage agent.

[Bluegunn]

I could see a brawl but a match would be horrible.

[Nash Diesel]

Yeah, Ron Simmons...Not a great worker, especially when Acolytes kicked in you could tell football and wrestling caught up to him. JBL, the guy had one move and he threw it stiff as fuck. That Hansen-esque lariat. Part of me is glad the local affiliate for WB/CW/UPN whatever it was didn't show Smackdown consistently and when they did it was like 10pm on a Sunday night. JBL dominating in 2004-2005 was tough. The other part is sad because I was always missing out on some really good stuff on Smackdown all those years until they went to SyFy.

[Nash Diesel]

I always felt like the WWE missed the boat on unifying the WWE and Big Gold at Mania 30. Even if they wanted to do Cena v. Orton I could understand why as they were the 2 top homegrown stars, multiple World title reigns. Personally I would've tried to build it toward Punk v. Bryan. Show that you're not just focused on the 2002 OVW class so much and you still give Bryan that big Mania win he wound up having anyway.

I know a big wrench is that Batista was supposed to actually win the title at Mania 30 but they changed directions when Daniel got over so well. That's another weird "what if" WHAT IF everything went to plan, Daniel fought Sheamus for the 3rd-4th time in a row, but Batista winds up winning the unified title from Orton. I wonder where they were going with that.

[Donald]

WrestleMania IX, Yokozuna beats Bret. Hogan never challenges Yokozuna, however he and Brutus win the tag titles from Money Inc. earlier in the night.

Fast forward to King of the Ring, Bret Hart gets his rematch against Yokozuna, however comes up short.

Hogan and Beefcake defend the tag titles against the Steiner Brothers, losing the titles to them.

You have Jerry Lawler win the King of the Ring title, and he walks around boasting he's the true king! Bret and Lawler can have their feud with Bret aiming to kick the king off his throne.

[Nash Diesel]

WrestleMania IX, Yokozuna beats Bret. Hogan never challenges Yokozuna, however he and Brutus win the tag titles from Money Inc. earlier in the night.

Fast forward to King of the Ring, Bret Hart gets his rematch against Yokozuna, however comes up short.

Hogan and Beefcake defend the tag titles against the Steiner Brothers, losing the titles to them.

You have Jerry Lawler win the King of the Ring title, and he walks around boasting he's the true king! Bret and Lawler can have their feud with Bret aiming to kick the king off his throne.

I wish I knew the reasoning behind Bret v. Lawler. I'll have to read Bret's book or dust off Jerry's because it wasn't like Jerry was ever portrayed as a big deal. But I loved the rivalry I just never understood why Bret and not maybe a guy like 123 Kid or another midcard babyface. Not top tier Bret.

I like what you're spinning. On one hand, I thought the finish of Mania 9 wasn't the worst thing Hogan's done but I get why they did it. On the other I wonder if they could've just had Yoko beat Bret, and then Hogan beats Yoko at KOTR, Hogan loses the title to Yoko at Summerslam. We all know the rumor that supposedly Bret v. Hogan was going to happen or it was mentioned. Bret also said he was supposedly going to beat Warrior at Rumble 1993 by submission....OOOOK Bret.

Hogan/Brutus should've won the tag titles. Drop them on Raw or a house show. I was still a big Hogan fan, IDK if I ever stopped but I was kind of ready for something different in the World title picture. I was enjoying seeing Bret in the mix.

[Kneeneighbor]

WrestleMania IX, Yokozuna beats Bret. Hogan never challenges Yokozuna, however he and Brutus win the tag titles from Money Inc. earlier in the night.

Fast forward to King of the Ring, Bret Hart gets his rematch against Yokozuna, however comes up short.

Hogan and Beefcake defend the tag titles against the Steiner Brothers, losing the titles to them.

You have Jerry Lawler win the King of the Ring title, and he walks around boasting he's the true king! Bret and Lawler can have their feud with Bret aiming to kick the king off his throne.

That would be a crazy long run for Yokozuna. I would have to look back a little closer at this time frame. EDIT: I looked back and Yoko's next run was 280 days so making it a full year wasnt unrealistic but its crazy looking back at the history heel runs were all around 70 days at that time.

The Lawler and Bret stuff was weird. They were just trying to find stuff for Bret to do to keep him away from the title and that was a mistake.

[Nash Diesel]

This was a major transitioning period because Hulk wanted to leave wrestling but he still had the love for it. 1993-early 1996 you had a lot of the top draws working with lesser talent to try and elevate them after the mass exodus to WCW of the major stars of the prior generation. Diesel, Razor, Shawn, Bret, Taker, they really didn't get to beat the old guard and go over. Yoko and Taker I guess kind of did but there was no real passing of the torch. Diesel got the mega push so he could help guys like Mabel and Kama get over I guess lol.

[WWXChairman]

Santina Marella should have ended with Beth Phoenix defeating her to become Miss WrestleMania.

[Eddie Brock]

I know one thing I'd have did different, and that would be changing the awful Starrcade 1994 main event with Beefcake. Personally I'd have Vader beat Duggan sooner for the US title and face Hogan in a title vs. title match at the big event.

I would've had Vader defeat Hogan in their first encounter too...the build to their rematch could've been epic in fairness.

[Kneeneighbor]

WrestleMania IX, Yokozuna beats Bret. Hogan never challenges Yokozuna, however he and Brutus win the tag titles from Money Inc. earlier in the night.

Fast forward to King of the Ring, Bret Hart gets his rematch against Yokozuna, however comes up short.

Hogan and Beefcake defend the tag titles against the Steiner Brothers, losing the titles to them.

You have Jerry Lawler win the King of the Ring title, and he walks around boasting he's the true king! Bret and Lawler can have their feud with Bret aiming to kick the king off his throne.

I watched King of the Ring last night. My rebook is coming soon.

[Nash Diesel]

I know one thing I'd have did different, and that would be changing the awful Starrcade 1994 main event with Beefcake. Personally I'd have Vader beat Duggan sooner for the US title and face Hogan in a title vs. title match at the big event.

I would've had Vader defeat Hogan in their first encounter too...the build to their rematch could've been epic in fairness.

I would've just gone into Hogan v. Vader right after the Flair angle wrapped up at Havoc 94. My question is, do we just flip flop and do Vader to end 94 into 95, and then after the blowoff we go into Dungeon? I always liked Hogan v. Vader. Should have Vader have beat Hogan for the belt? No. It was too early and WCW's business was finally starting to turn around to give it to someone who was on top and couldn't draw for shit. Vader was cool, but he wasn't a good draw.

Either way, Starrcade 1994 was whack.

[Donald]

Vader was awesome coming in to WWE. The whole angle with Gorilla Monsoon was just phenomenal. Then he just fell apart after that, though I assume that was due to injuries and dealing with Shawn Michaels.

[Nash Diesel]

Vader was awesome coming in to WWE. The whole angle with Gorilla Monsoon was just phenomenal. Then he just fell apart after that, though I assume that was due to injuries and dealing with Shawn Michaels.

The Something To Wrestle With Bruce Prichard episode on Vader was very good. Vader was a guy they had high hopes for, not realizing he was coming in the WWF out of shape, injured, and I think his morale was very low because he was fired for the Orndorff situation. This big tough bastard gets diced by a guy with one good arm wearing shower shoes. Thank God the internet wasn't shit back in 1995/96 or like with Taz, all the mystique would've been done sooner than later.

Shawn....Eh. Shawn took stiff shots from Nash, Razor, Taker, Bigelow...Vader seemed a little careless, just watch his matches where he's dumping people on their head, there's about 40 videos on youtube of him damn near killing people. So on one hand I do believe that Shawn wasn't high on working with him but he did for 3-4 months. On the other hand, IDK if the company was willing to put the belt on a guy like Vader with his physical condition being in question. They made a smarter move holding off and passing it to Sid.

Personally I would've rather had Vader go over at Summerslam. Sid wins the belt at Survivor Series. Shawn wins it back in San Antonio at Rumble. That might've given them more time to build toward that big show in San Antonio because they ran a stadium when business wasn't very good even going into 1997.

[Kneeneighbor]

KOR 1993 Rebook

Quarterfinals
Bret over Razor, same match.
Bam Bam in a quick one over Typhoon
Crush goes down to Mr Huges with some cheating and the urn
Perfect over Giant Gonzalez in a quick one.

Undefeated Streak vs Undefeated Streak
Tatanka vs Lex Double Count Out (Shorter than 15 min draw)

Semi Finals
Bret over BamBam in same match they had but now in semi Finals
Perfect over Huges in same match they had but now in semi Finals

WWF Title
Yoko over Hogan (I would prefer clean but that wasnt going to happen)

8 Man Tag
Stays the same

IC Title
Shawn over Duggan (shorter than actual IC match)

KOR Final
Bret v Perfect Same match now Finals

[OD50]

Can’t see Perfect beating Gonzales two months before his blow-off with the Undertaker at SummerSlam. Maybe a quick DQ/countout due to Undertaker interfering could work. Payback for Gonzales taking him out of the Royal Rumble.

[Kneeneighbor]

Can’t see Perfect beating Gonzales two months before his blow-off with the Undertaker at SummerSlam. Maybe a quick DQ/countout due to Undertaker interfering could work. Payback for Gonzales taking him out of the Royal Rumble.

Tatanka went over him in the qualifying match by DQ. I could see that happening here. Also at this point Mr. Hughes has the Urn.

[Eddie Brock]

King of the Ring winner Steve Austin facing Yokozuna in an under 2 minute match on the Free For All and not the main SummerSlam card was a head scratcher. It looks from the TV and house show results from this period that he wasn't injured either.

[Kneeneighbor]

King of the Ring winner Steve Austin facing Yokozuna in an under 2 minute match on the Free For All and not the main SummerSlam card was a head scratcher. It looks from the TV and house show results from this period that he wasn't injured either.

A lot of places to cut 5-10 min and get him on the main card. Interestingly enough this was supposed to have Farooq v Ahmed Johnson on it too but Ahmed got hurt.

[Bluegunn]

King of the Ring winner Steve Austin facing Yokozuna in an under 2 minute match on the Free For All and not the main SummerSlam card was a head scratcher. It looks from the TV and house show results from this period that he wasn't injured either.

I think it was due to the rope break spot. It allowed time to not have to delay the main show

As for king of the ring. If crush was going to be set as a challenger for Yokozuna I think book him to win a match should have been the way to go. Perhaps against papa shongo or Kamala. Hbk vs Duggan I could see being no count out and diesel helping hbk win at the end. Saving his debut as a surprise.

[lotjx]

I loved WCW Vader. Probably the greatest monster heel they had. WWF Vader was garbage, because Shawn was a whiny bitch who happened to be in a locker room full of whiny bitches.

[Eddie Brock]

I concur with this statement. Vader was the man in WCW.

[Kneeneighbor]

Vader making his WWF debut with them knowing he needed shoulder surgery was an interesting choice.

[Eddie Brock]

What a lot of people forget is that in Vader's first match, he attacks Yokozuna, and then Michaels comes up and eliminates Vader and Yokozuna together, one with each hand. That didn't help him at all.

[Bluegunn]

Not one of my favorite rumbles. HBK was thrown out. Any other year it would count.

[Bluegunn]

How would you book a Lex Luger title run if he were to beat Yokozuna at SummerSlam?

[Nash Diesel]

What a lot of people forget is that in Vader's first match, he attacks Yokozuna, and then Michaels comes up and eliminates Vader and Yokozuna together, one with each hand. That didn't help him at all.

Shawn was so over at that time though and the way it was done didn't hurt anyone at all. What people also forget is I think 1 or 2 people after that happens out comes Diesel. So we missed out on Nash v. Vader as I don't think they ever fought each other. Imagine that match-Vader and Yoko v. HBK and Diesel. Or how about Taker/Diesel v. Vader/Yoko?

Diesel v. Vader not happening is a crime. I'm glad the nWo happened, Nash and Hall surpassed their WWF personas imo, but there's always that "what if" and Diesel v. Vader has to be a match we'd see right?

How would you book a Lex Luger title run if he were to beat Yokozuna at SummerSlam?

I would try to somehow get the belt on Bret at Mania 10. Luger (USA) v. Bret Hart (Canada) face v. face and make it more about the country v. country aspect, like an Olympic game.

Or you take the belt off Lex at Rumble, Bret wins the Rumble, challenges Yokozuna at Mania 10.

If you want to keep the Owen/Bret classic in tact you replace Lex with Owen and do the double win with Owen and Bret. Then you have Owen v. Bret winner face Yokozuna later that night. Doing that you eliminate the Luger/Yoko match but I'm sure Luger would find a spot. You could even do something where maybe Cornette or Fuji helped Yoko at Rumble, and do Yoko v. Lex 3 at Mania 10, same result as the original booking.

Luger was kind of the first manufactured mega push imo. They just never fully committed to it for whatever reason. Maybe they felt the turnaround of Yoko winning the belt in June only to lose it in August to Lex was too short of a reign. Like how do we go from supposedly Bret v. Hogan to Lex v. Yoko?

[Eddie Brock]

Shawn was so over at that time though and the way it was done didn't hurt anyone at all. What people also forget is I think 1 or 2 people after that happens out comes Diesel. So we missed out on Nash v. Vader as I don't think they ever fought each other. Imagine that match-Vader and Yoko v. HBK and Diesel. Or how about Taker/Diesel v. Vader/Yoko?

Diesel v. Vader not happening is a crime. I'm glad the nWo happened, Nash and Hall surpassed their WWF personas imo, but there's always that "what if" and Diesel v. Vader has to be a match we'd see right?

One thing I would've changed is, instead of the Backlot Brawl have Ahmed/Jake/Yoko vs. Bulldog/Goldust/Owen and Piper vs. Vader.

One of my goals would be to start building up Vader as a contender for Michaels and an eventual world champion down the road. Unfortunately, Hall was suspended and not available. Putting Vader in a six man tag doesn't work for me though. I'd give Vader Piper and have him go over very convincingly in a relatively short, 8ish minute match. Vader was coming off surgery at the time, but capable of wrestling, and Piper was leaving anyway so this is an easy way to give Vader a good rub. He's a huge missed opportunity possibly the biggest in Vince's history as a promoter to me. Huge guy with a distinctive look. You'd think that Vader making a name for himself outside of WWF would be a plus, but in Vince's mind it was a negative. And then Shawn badmouthed him.

[Nash Diesel]

One thing I would've changed is, instead of the Backlot Brawl have Ahmed/Jake/Yoko vs. Bulldog/Goldust/Owen and Piper vs. Vader.

One of my goals would be to start building up Vader as a contender for Michaels and an eventual world champion down the road. Unfortunately, Hall was suspended and not available. Putting Vader in a six man tag doesn't work for me though. I'd give Vader Piper and have him go over very convincingly in a relatively short, 8ish minute match. Vader was coming off surgery at the time, but capable of wrestling, and Piper was leaving anyway so this is an easy way to give Vader a good rub. He's a huge missed opportunity possibly the biggest in Vince's history as a promoter to me. Huge guy with a distinctive look. You'd think that Vader making a name for himself outside of WWF would be a plus, but in Vince's mind it was a negative. And then Shawn badmouthed him.

Naw that 6-man was perfect. Goldust didn't fit at all. It was Camp Cornette v. the top 3 babyfaces not in the World title picture. It gave Vader a high profile match. Him v. Piper would've been terrible. I could see how the match would come to be with Piper replacing Monsoon who Vader had hurt. But again, the match would've been terrible. Piper was barely a wrestler and that Backlot Brawl was legendary.

Was it in a negative in Vince's mind that Vader was a name outside of the WWF? That doesn't make any sense when if you were a top guy in WCW 9/10 times you wound up a top guy in the WWF. People forget there was a time Vince had no problem making money with other promotions, including this time period. He was doing stuff with WAR, FMW, AAA or CMLL I believe, Michinoku Pro, there's a reason we saw Taka Michinoku and Hakushi.

Problem is with Vader is that he wasn't exactly the easiest guy to work with. There's a reason he was in the WWF to begin with. Motherfucker got fired lol. Shawn didn't have to badmouth him. Vader didn't do himself any favors. I'm pro-Vader though. Vader should've gone over at Summerslam, maybe feud with Sid, then Shawn gets it back at Rumble in San Antonio which was then setting up Bret/Shawn rematch.

[Bluegunn]

What if Vader used the gimmick of being the one to make HBK lose his smile. It could have worked. Vader knocking out guys who came out with a grin.

[Eddie Brock]

Shawn and Vader trade the title in an epic series with proper selling.

[Nash Diesel]

Diesel v. Bret Hart Royal Rumble 1995.

They wanted the World title defended on the card. The logic was that since Diesel beat Bob before Bret could make a claim for a rematch against Bob due to Helen Hart throwing in the towel-Bret had to fight Diesel now. Babyface v. Babyface was still a hard sell and Diesel was a freshly turned babyface and Bret was just cementing his status as the #1 guy despite who was the champ.

Me personally I would've never had Diesel beat Backlund at the house show. Instead, you have Diesel v. Backlund at the Rumble. Shit they might've been able to pull off the 6 second title win on ppv. Then in the Rumble, you have the same exact finish only replace Bulldog with Bret. They could use this as a throwback to building up Mania 12 where they both went the distance in the Rumble, why not do an Iron Man Match?

The Bret/Diesel draw was a smart finish but not 1 month into Diesel's run. Diesel defending the title against Shawn would've been solid, that's what would've happened today if Shawn turned on Diesel at Survivor Series, they'd have a match lined up for the December ppv or at the least Rumble. But back then they built to Mania somewhat differently. Going my route, you'd still be able to get to Shawn v. Diesel and Backlund v. Bret I Quit.

[Eddie Brock]

Hakushi comes to mind as a guy who could've had a fun match with Diesel for the belt. I would've built him over the summer as this assassin so to speak, leading to SummerSlam, and have him challenge for the belt. Of course he wouldn't win, but it'd be a better option than what we did get. I just think they could've given Diesel some better material to work with over that summer instead of Mabel? There had to be better options with that roster. You've got a guy who's supposed to be a monster so they pair him up against people as big if not bigger. It's the same mistake they made with Vader by pairing him up with Yokozuna when Vader came to WWF. Needed athletic guys who could bump and make him look like the monster he was supposed to be not make him sell half the match. Fans started to get behind him in the fall of '94 because he went after faces and heels. He was a great tweener, but as soon as he won the title, he turned into this vanilla babyface ripoff that didn't fit his character.

As far as booking goes, I'd have booked Owen to win the title from Bret at Survivor Series and hold it until Rumble Diesel beats Owen at Rumble, but remains a tweener.

[Nash Diesel]

Hakushi comes to mind as a guy who could've had a fun match with Diesel for the belt. I would've built him over the summer as this assassin so to speak, leading to SummerSlam, and have him challenge for the belt. Of course he wouldn't win, but it'd be a better option than what we did get. I just think they could've given Diesel some better material to work with over that summer instead of Mabel? There had to be better options with that roster. You've got a guy who's supposed to be a monster so they pair him up against people as big if not bigger. It's the same mistake they made with Vader by pairing him up with Yokozuna when Vader came to WWF. Needed athletic guys who could bump and make him look like the monster he was supposed to be not make him sell half the match. Fans started to get behind him in the fall of '94 because he went after faces and heels. He was a great tweener, but as soon as he won the title, he turned into this vanilla babyface ripoff that didn't fit his character.

As far as booking goes, I'd have booked Owen to win the title from Bret at Survivor Series and hold it until Rumble Diesel beats Owen at Rumble, but remains a tweener.

To be fair, Diesel was very much a heel until he turned at Survivor Series 1994. He wasn't going after heels until that night when he beat the shit out of his own team who wouldn't get out of the way so he could get to Shawn. He wasn't really a tweener until he lost the belt a year later to Bret at Survivor 95. I'll never forget his promo the next night where he cut that promo, shooting on Vince, talking about if you're not wearing a black glove don't hold your hand out. He was Austin before Austin.

With that said--Would've loved for Hakushi to get a big push but I realized as I got older he was simply there as some sort of relationship building process with WAR/FMW. I believe Taker goes to FMW and fights Jinsei (Hakushi) during this time. The fact they made Hakushi the job guy to the team with Barry Horriblewitz....

Vince was still trying to get his rocks off on booking guys like Diesel and Undertaker against other big men. With Diesel it wasn't as frequent. He went through Backlund, Bret, and Shawn before he started working with Sid, then Mabel. Then it was back to Bulldog, Bret, Owen, then Bret again before Taker at Mania then he left on a high note with that killer match with HBK at IYH. So he had the smaller, agile guys that could sell for him it's just that the big mega push of Mabel in 1995 fucking sucked. Both Diesel AND Taker suffered. IDK Yoko's status for Summerslam 1995 maybe that was one of those weight loss vacations he took but that would've been AWESOME. Diesel and Yoko barely wrestled on tv, I know of 1 6-man tag they did. Diesel, HBK, and Diesel v. Yoko, Owen, and Bulldog on a Raw.

[Bluegunn]

Diesel had the million Dollar Corporation he could have feuded with. Bam Bam just turned face. But Tatanka was still there. Heck, PCO could have been good.

[Nash Diesel]

Diesel had the million Dollar Corporation he could have feuded with. Bam Bam just turned face. But Tatanka was still there. Heck, PCO could have been good.

He did feud with them because after Shawn he went into the Sid feud, who had joined the Million $ Corporation. Problem was, the roster wasn't that great. 94-early 96 we saw a lot of the top guys having to work with the midcard because all the other names left for WCW or "retired" between 93-95. So while guys like Diesel, Shawn, Bret, and Yoko are officially taking over, they're also losing Hogan, Savage, Flair, Perfect,Bossman, Duggan, Rude, Warrior, even guys like Haku. Those guys all left before they could really put anyone but Yoko and Taker over. Everyone else....well at least Bret was there lol.

I do love that story where Nash talks about PCO not wanting to do the job to him when he was World champ because they were in Canada, despite Diesel being more over than the Pirate was despite the geographical location. I never understood cheering a hometown heel. He makes my city/state look bad. I booed Seth Rollins don't care if he's from here lol.

[Eddie Brock]

Dr. Death Steve Williams would've been a great hire as the Million Dollar Corporation's No. 1 badass.

[Nash Diesel]

Until Bart Gun hit him and dude broke his neck, dick, spine, tore his ACL.

I think Bart Gunn should've been pushed as a cocky heel after that Butterbean loss but all the guys above him who he knocked out were so butthurt they blackballed him.

[Bluegunn]

I think a good storyline could have been Bart getting cocky about the title and he faces each guy in the tournament only to lose to them in an actually match. Our he could have feuded with the beast or shamrock since they both dropped out. Again being in the losing end. He could have sold shirts that said one lucky punch. As he could win occasionally due to the lucky punch. Also lose matches when he misses it. For example he goes for it against bradshaw only to get hit with the clothesline from Hell

[Nash Diesel]

it's almost like Vince took the Bill Watts mentality and fired Bart on the spot for losing a real fight, despite it being against a legit boxer.

Upside is he went over to Japan and had a nice career over there before retiring.

[Bluegunn]

How about some unfinished storyline or one's that went no where.
I'll start with Dolph ziggler walking away from Smackdown after winning the US Title. He then just randomly shows up at the end of the rumble. Was there a long term end game? Possibly he could have started a group of guys that refuse to wrestle and only beat guys up. Maybe just backstage where no one sees.

[Romford Pele]

GTV. Had so so much potential.

[Bluegunn]

Had Goldust not returned to WCW it could have been great. As soon as he left they kept trying new names. They thought of Tom Green or even Thrasher. Thrasher could have been ok. Not sure why they did not bring it back when Goldust returned. Instead of just having him return at the rumble they could have just brought it back. They did have Kidman on the roster who could have been pointed to with his Kid cam. Kidman could have been doing a few segments only for Goldust to bring back GTV showing Kidman taping for Kidcam calling him an armature. Either that or use it like they did with the Smackdown hacker which I think was pretty much a copycat of GTV anyway.

[3puppies]

How about some unfinished storyline or one's that went no where.
I'll start with Dolph ziggler walking away from Smackdown after winning the US Title. He then just randomly shows up at the end of the rumble. Was there a long term end game? Possibly he could have started a group of guys that refuse to wrestle and only beat guys up. Maybe just backstage where no one sees.

The thing is, Dolph is sooooo much better in the ring than out of it. They probably had something planned and realized that while Dolph can do it all in the ring, when it comes to storyline progression, well he just is a better follower than a storyline leader. While stuff like this is puzzling to fans, this is a case where it probably would have been worse had they continued with Dolph. The way to make it better would be to give this story to someone else in the midcard who is believable in the ring, can talk, but isn't doing anything. Like maybe Strowman

[Romford Pele]

Had Goldust not returned to WCW it could have been great. As soon as he left they kept trying new names. They thought of Tom Green or even Thrasher. Thrasher could have been ok. Not sure why they did not bring it back when Goldust returned. Instead of just having him return at the rumble they could have just brought it back. They did have Kidman on the roster who could have been pointed to with his Kid cam. Kidman could have been doing a few segments only for Goldust to bring back GTV showing Kidman taping for Kidcam calling him an armature. Either that or use it like they did with the Smackdown hacker which I think was pretty much a copycat of GTV anyway.

I know Goldust left, but it could have been anyone, literally anyone else on the roster. Could have been a great way to get someone over, such a waste.

[ckauffman28]

What about Beaver Cleavage?
He had several coming soon ads then after a month they completely scrapped it..
I think it would have been much better than Chaz's gimmick

[Nash Diesel]

I thought GTV was something that wasn't going to help anyone get over. Even looking back on it now in this discussion I remember when I was younger thinking oh it's probably just Vince or the Stooges. I never really felt like it had any legs to it because it felt like A-it was going to be Goldust and B-some of the Attitude Era stuff was getting stale at times. This was one of those things like Mae Young giving birth to the hand. Fast forward it would've probably been a dud like the anonymous GM reveal. Or the Higher Power being Vince.

[Bluegunn]

Would rumble 90 have worked if perfect eliminated both hogan and warrior at the end to win a they went at each other by the ropes or would it book better if hogan and warrior eliminating each other and beefcake being last one eliminated after genius interferes. Final 4 hogan warrior perfect beefcake.

[Eddie Brock]

A heel winning in 1990 wouldn't have sent the crowd home happy nor help with the build to WM 6 plus Hogan needed revenge on Perfect for the loss to Genius. The Rumble needed sweaty Hogan posing at the end a couple of times for it to become a prestigious win.

[Nash Diesel]

Yeah Hogan was definitely the right person to win. Especially the year prior with Big John Studd winning which made no sense at all. Mr. Perfect was a great heel but him winning Rumble wouldn't have done much for him if the plan was to go on to Mania 6 and lose to Beefcake. It was brilliant storytelling though when you think about how they were able to transition Hogan to Warrior but still keep Beefcake/Genius/Perfect story going strong with a solid payoff-Beefcake giving Perfect his first clean loss on tv/ppv.

I wonder what would have happened if Warrior had won instead of Hogan.

[Bluegunn]

Just watched it again.. beefcake wrestled genius already that night and was not even in the rumble. Only way perfect could win is if warrior and hogan did what hogan did after Andre won survivor series. But lots of great storytelling in that rumble. I might have swapped neidhart and Jake spots and have Jake eliminate debiase.

[ckauffman28]

correct me if im wrong... wasnt the very first GTV Called GDTV then changed to GTV after?

[mth]

I think so.

[Badger]

I can’t remember or arsed to search or not if it’s been brought up but although it wasn’t really a terrible angle…the HHH/Steph/Kurt angle (bah dum tsh) petered out when it was really getting going. I know there was factors like HHH being revealed as the hit-and-run driver (gonna segue into this as well) with the surprise Rikishi reveal blowing up in their faces would you have booked this any differently like Kurt and Steph having a thing all along and kept HHH a face all along.

On the hit-and-run angle as well, if they didn’t want to go with the obvious in HHH and seeing as Rikishi didn’t work out, would there have been an alternative? Maybe just go with Vince if in a “swerve” though Austin got him his job back?

[Eddie Brock]

Shawn Michaels would've been cool out for revenge after his last match, and could say he did it for Triple H.

[Badger]

Shawn Michaels would've been cool out for revenge after his last match, and could say he did it for Triple H.

That actually reminds me of something else when Shawn screwed Rock on the very first Smackdown against HHH. Also the ambiguity of the Iron Man Judgment Day match ending when he reffed.

Shame we never got Shawn vs Rock because that would’ve been moooneeeyyyy! I know they had their differences and Shawn had his back problems but God that would’ve been hot. Just two ships passing each other in the night.

Wonder how that feud could’ve been booked too.

[Bluegunn]

I did find it funny that they were talking about who ran over stone Cold during Rikishi's debut match on Metal. But wasn't it originally planned to be Tazz?

[WWXChairman]

Michael Cole having a single tenure as GM of RAW would have been great.

[Bluegunn]

During Fake Kane angle, could they have called Brian Lee to make a cameo as UnderFaker? I feel they could have at least let it go another month. Not like Undertaker had much to do at the time anyway.

[Bluegunn]

I thought GTV was something that wasn't going to help anyone get over. Even looking back on it now in this discussion I remember when I was younger thinking oh it's probably just Vince or the Stooges. I never really felt like it had any legs to it because it felt like A-it was going to be Goldust and B-some of the Attitude Era stuff was getting stale at times. This was one of those things like Mae Young giving birth to the hand. Fast forward it would've probably been a dud like the anonymous GM reveal. Or the Higher Power being Vince.

Just watched some old Heat episodes. I think Joe E Legend might have been great as the reveal. His Just Joe Gimmick actually worked out perfectly.

[Nash Diesel]

Just watched some old Heat episodes. I think Joe E Legend might have been great as the reveal. His Just Joe Gimmick actually worked out perfectly.

If it was going to be for an actual wrestler I would definitely put it with someone on that level. A new guy or a mid-lower card guy.

Shane McMahon might've been a good reveal. Keeping tabs on the talent for his dad the Higher Power.