Hated the Fingerpoke of Doom?
Who should've been Vince's bastard son?
How would you have booked the Yeti?
Where do you have the first nWo ppv? (Definitely not Cedar Rapids, IA in January)
I was thinking about different angles in wrestling over the years and I wonder, what could've been done differently?
Feel free to defend what is being considered terrible as everything is subjective.
Bash at the Beach should have been the nWo PPV, as that's where it all started.
Vince's son should have been anyone but Hornswoggle. If I remember correctly, it was supposed to be Mr. Kennedy. But he got fired. Kennedy. He would have been a little bit better than Hornswoggle I suppose.
I will have to think about stuff that I thought was terrible.
Hated the finger point of doom. that was so dumb.
Yeti never should have been booked along with so many things in WCW. WCW did some good stuff don't get me wrong but so many bad things. But then again you can say the same with the WWE.
Count the anonymous Raw GM on the “anyone but Hornswoggle” list. Would’ve been funnier if it was Cole all along sending emails to him.
Would’ve been better scrapped altogether but for the purposes of re-booking, Mae Young should’ve just fessed up and said she was faking her pregnancy for attention calling Mark an idiot for believing she could get pregnant.
May come up with more later.
For one, holy shit they hated Mark Henry. I was watching one of the Attitude Era blu rays not too long ago and forgot all about the segment where he admits to the sex therapist he fantasized about his sister. You had him get duped into hooking up with a crossdresser and we all know the innuendos about Chyna that they would always make.Originally Posted by Badger
But for the 2 Vince's low brow humors sake I 1000% agree with you. She would reveal she was faking it (duh) and Mark Henry could've given her the World's Strongest Slam. Fit the vibe of the Attitude/Ruthless era no doubt. That hand shit was so stupid. "We want the Attitude Era!" No...no you don't.
How about an easy one? Booker T defeats Triple H at Mania 19. IMHO, that could've been a bigger reason to form Evolution. Triple H realizes Flair isn't enough, he recruits the 2 up and coming beasts for him and Flair to mold in their image. Instead it was just another WCW guy getting smeeshed. I watched Unforgiven 2003 last night where Goldberg finally beats Triple H and even that felt weak.
For starters - I would rebook Owen Hart in anything but the gimmick that killed him.
There are so many Stephanie McMahon things that should have been booked differently, or better yet, left off the air. Her ditching Test in favor of HHH. Filthy dirty disgusting bottom feeding trashbag ho, never made sense.
Most of Shane McMahon's stuff was not great TV, but at least Shane-o-Mac gave us a LOT of "Holy Shit" moments.
And of course, Vince booking himself as the champ was a disgrace, and just felt like he was giving his father a giant "fuck-you".
Was there any reason to turn Stone Cold heel? I will say this...in hindsight it sort of worked before the Invasion angle hit. Stone Cold and Triple H with Vince backing them definitely help elevate Benoit, Jericho, Hardyz/Lita, the Taker/Kane matches were obviously high profile. But I feel like when Triple H went down and WCW/ECW paired up, he should've turned babyface and carried the WWE flag front and center. If they wanted a top tier guy as a heel that would've worked better for Jericho. He had the history with WCW and ECW and he would've been a great leader of the Alliance. Sure, we miss out on a few things like the cowboy hat, but we don't get "WHAT?" so that alone is good enough lol.
Higher Power should've been anyone but Vince McMahon. Made no sense to me. Didn't the Undertaker chokeslam him and things like that leading up to the reveal? Just felt like they had an idea and then changed their minds on the fly. I think I remember hearing Christopher Daniels was supposed to be the Higher Power, and I know little to nothing about Christopher Daniels, but surely he would have been a better reveal than Vince.
Jake Roberts was another rumour at the time. That would’ve been fantastic and made sense too.
Might be a hot take but actually didn’t mind Vince in the end. I remember Saturday morning Livewire with Todd Pettengill they did a whole “documentary” on it. Plus it gave us a great run of CEO Austin and of course one of the greatest memes ever:
I think a bigger criticism was Austin not having a bigger journey back to the title after all that build-up. I would’ve held it off for maybe Summerslam rather than the night after KOTR. Just seemed too quick.
Daniels would've been the same reaction Vince had only from the other end of the spectrum. Instead of "What the hell? Vince?? Should've been anyone else!" But then you have some absolute nobody unless you were a super die hard indie fan or watched a lot of D shows where he challenged Taka for the belt in '98.....It's kind of like when people say "we want new blood in the main event scene" and they give us Jinder Mahal instead of Big E lol.
The whole concept was ridiculous especially for the Attitude Era. For some reason I could never get into really anything supernatural especially during the Monday Night Wars. There were a few things that were cool like Undertaker v. Diesel or the Brood--only I wasn't really high on the early origin story that Edge and Christian had Gangrel's blood in them or something to that affect. Lost Boys is the shit but in wrestling? But the "higher power" was never going to be cool because it didn't fit the vibe of the Attitude Era. Did people really enjoy the Ministry of Darkness?
I do definitely agree though that the majority wouldn’t have known who he was so would’ve also been a let down. As far as the Ministry goes, I’d say on a whole felt more like cheesy 80’s/early 90’s shit than Attitude.
Last edited by Badger; February 24th, 2023 at 4:19 PM.
Don't hinder Jinder. I enjoyed Jinder as champ.
Jarrett turning heel on Owen after they lost the tag titles and starting a feud would have been an easy fix for both of them. Mega heat for Jarrett and mega face heat for Owen.
I think I would just rebook AJ Lee in general. They definitely wasted so much time with her on pointless garbage.
Think that’s a bit extreme lol.
She played both heel/face roles quite well. She could play the everyman gamer chick that could relate to the fans well as a face like in NXT but also very memorable moments as the psycho manipulative sociopath heel as well eg kissing guys like Kane to mess with their heads. Also the memorable “18 seconds” kiss Mania moment with Bryan/Sheamus.
She wasn’t the most memorable in the ring but had a great character range.
CM Punk is a lucky guy who digs crazy chicks.
AJ Lee "got it" in a way that few others on the women's roster ever do. Trish, Alexa Bliss, Paige, and maybe Stacey "the Kat" Carter were a few in her league, in the sense that they really understood their role, and connected with the audience, and most importantly, they entertained us. And like AJ Lee, all of these women were often featured in less than ideal situations, but they more often than not made it watchable.
Another missed opportunity I can think of that should have been booked differently was Cena beating the Nexxus. They could / should have had Wade Barrett win, and it would have solidified Barrett as a main eventer for years. Instead, we got SuperCena.
That was the typical of the “You’re Fired/Retired” trope when you know they are and do come back soon.
I think Shawn kept it up the longest for years in recent memory until Saudi Arabia. In the words of Krusty “They drove a dumptruck of money up to my house. I’m not made of stooone!”
But yeah Wade definitely should have won. Then there was that weird bit of Bryan being fired/rehired because they didn’t like him choking Roberts out. So much potential that Nexus angle and then it went to complete shit.
Bit like the Invasion really. So much I’d rebook of that but also had circumstances like HHH being injured and them not getting the contracts of the real big players.
Last edited by Badger; February 24th, 2023 at 8:05 PM.
Basically my point exactly. She’s most remembered for things she did for/during somebody else’s career.
Punk, Cena, Kane, Daniel Bryan, Primo, etc. Nothing that I would want anyone to be remembered for and, this goes without saying, but presuming she never does any wrestling again.
Whenever people say “Vince booking” I think of things like the way AJ was booked, nothing else. She could have just been a nerd character that also kicks ass, there could have been something there.
I just think you’re being too negative and looking at it the wrong way. Okay she won’t be the tippy-top elite of women’s wrestlers but she’s still made a huge impact if even more to help others and will still be remembered.
I’m sure if during a sit-down interview the interviewer asked “Oh by the way WWXChairman from forums.rajah.con thinks your whole career was shit despite the fact you’ve got TV time, got exposure with big stars, made a shit-ton of money? Married to a big star with money. How do you respond?”
AJ: “Who? lol.”
They actually did start to give AJ some actually good stuff, like I said with the nerd character.
Her and Kaitlyn as the Chickbusters just came too early because there were no Womens Tag Titles at the time.
Yeah that was good but she that’s not all she can/could have done throughout her career. It’s good for the NXT crowd who are hardcore and like whatever but doesn’t necessarily mean it will translate to the big fish main women’s roster who have similar characters. They need to adapt as they can turn on the goody-goods if they turn stale.
Take Bayley as an example. Her “I love hugs” great with the NXT and UK crowds singing “Heeey hey Bayleeey oooh ahhh” but if she stuck with that, pretty soon the big crowds would eventually get sick of that. Just the nature of the beast if she stuck as a one-trick pony, people would’ve turned on her. She developed and showed her range which is what AJ did and got her time and money out of it.
That happened on Smackdown and then she went on NXT Redemption and had her as Hornswoggles girlfriend, which was the start of all of that nonsense. Instead, that would have been an incredible opportunity to put her into a feud with Maryse.
Again though I think you are missing the bigger picture here. That was very early on in her career but overall she has had a rewarding time. I doubt a change from kissing Hornswoggle to her feuding with Maryse who let’s be honest a pretty face and being Mrs Miz didn’t have a stellar in-ring career herself so doubt that would’ve changed the course any better for AJ than what she ended up accomplishing. At least a sweet moment with Hornswoggle pushed her sweet character more than a sideways feud with Maryse could’ve done.
Last edited by Badger; February 24th, 2023 at 10:49 PM.
The anonymous RAW GM. Would have rebooked that by just dropping it and never mentioning it ever again on television. Ever. Lorrrrd, those were dark times.
In principle agree but at the same time Cole being him all along would’ve been a funny af troll job all around.
In my opinion, it’s much easier to see how it would have been more beneficial to book AJ this way. Even Maryse, at this time, could have been used better. Maryse was a former 2 time Divas Champion and AJ Lee had won every female title in FCW. With there being no titles in NXT at the time high profile feuds is really all they had. It could have been Maryse and Maxine feuding with The Chickbusters and the Divas of Doom on both Smackdown and NXT.
I would rebook DDP with Kimberly in WWF.
Rumble 2022
Obviously not have shane return and be final 4
Omas at the time should have been eliminating at least 5 guys to look like the monster of the rumble. Heck, have him near the end. Have 6 guys eliminate him and show relief right before Brock shows up to pick up the pieces.
Nakamura gone in under 6 minutes also baffles me. Especially against AJ.
Last edited by Bluegunn; February 28th, 2023 at 1:33 AM.
A lot of these have been mentioned already:-
Higher Power - could have been HBK, Jake?
Nexus - Summerslam 2010 change the finish
Bayley - could have been the female Cena when she debuted, they blew that big time
Ryback - should never have jobbed him v CM Punk. He was hot as well, if you don't want to take the belt off Punk don't have the match! Have Ryback keep mowing people down, win the IC belt and then have him beat Cena at Summerslam 13 if you want to go all the way.
Everything after Punk won at MITB 2011. HHH thinking he is the main character was a massive problem in 2011 and the other ten years prior.
Taker at Mania.
Don't end the streak with Brock at 30. Instead let Roman get the win at 33, as the heat would have been even more intense.
WM31. Still boils my piss they went with HHH/Sting because Hunter wanted his win to face the Rock the year after (which didn't happen). Taker v Sting would have been a generational match, especially with the Streak still intact. Instead they make Sting look like a jobber and bury him on commentary.
HHH v Bray would have been an intriguing match up at 31 as well.
I know the idea is that everything has to end at some point but I would've kept the Streak in tact. But as we've seen in several documentaries and the various times Taker has wanted to step away, I'm glad that it was at least someone ultra legit and credible like Brock Lesnar. And then Lesnar went on to have that dominant reign of terror, something I don't think a newer talent or someone less established could've pulled off.
IMO, there were only 2 people leading up to Mania 30 that could've ended the Streak and that's Lesnar or Cena. Roman at 33 would've been ok but it's too bad you couldn't take current Roman and put him in that spot because then you'd have someone else worthy of ending the Streak.
Mania 31: Is it bad I'm more annoyed that the original 3 of the nWo came to save Sting than the fact he lost? Lol. If anything you should've had them help DX! I'm with you, swap HHH and Bray and do Taker v. Sting, HHH v. Bray. You could've had the Klik plus DX run in to counter the Wyatt Family. Hogan could've done something in the red and yellow or shit if you want Hollywood...have him cost Sting the match, a little throwback to their rivalry, and you don't have anyone lose 100% clean.
I was literally just watching a youtube video theorizing 5 people Undertaker did not like and Sting was one of them. They tried to connect it to Taker's time in WCW when Sting was a rising main eventer. IDK about that but even Taker gets all weird about it when it comes up. I guess when you watch that Taker doc on the Network you really see why he was subjective about who he worked with. His last Mania matches were Lesnar, Bray Wyatt, Roman Reigns, John Cena, and AJ Styles. Did he really need Sting on that list?
While I did enjoy the Nash run in at Summerslam I think they could've done something different while still including Nash.
I know several people including Shane Douglas have said they would've liked to have seen maybe Punk go do a spot in ROH since they had a good relationship with WWE or maybe he's just taking it to signings saying he's the real champ while WWE carried on. But they rushed that shit. I know they were probably worried about Summerslam not having a big enough match but shit they could've done John Cena v. Rey Mysterio and that would've been HUGE. The top 2 babyfaces (sans Punk obviously)? It would draw.
I would've had Punk come back after Summerslam to stake claim at Night of Champions. You do Cena v. Punk unification with Triple H as the guest ref. Somehow out of that is where you could possibly incorporate Nash and Del Rio. Maybe build to Punk v. Del Rio at Mania with ADR as Triple H's guy? IDK. But I do agree they fumbled Punk's long reign early on with hotshotting the belt from Cena-Punk-Rey-Cena-Punk-Del Rio-Punk in 2 months.
Kennel From Hell. Instead of two cages with Rottweilers shitting and humping around the ring, Al Snow and Boss Man have a pugel stick duel on a platform over a shark tank. The shark is actually Shark Boy who rises up and pushes Boss Man into the water to devour him.
The Sting/HHH build up was awful as well. Trying to make out Sting was good in WCW but he needed to prove he could hang in WWE. So dumb.
WWE > WCW
It started out awesome. Sting helps Dolph beat the Authority. It should've kept going. Sting and Cena should've formed a stable with Dolph, Ryback, and Rowan. I still don't get why, if the rumor is true, that Triple H felt he needed to beat Sting to look strong in the segment later on where Ronda tossed his ass. Then that would set up a match with The Rock next year-which never happened unfortunately as I actually would've liked to finally see them get their one on one match even if it like 20 years too late.
Another one for me is going to be Shane McMahon's reign as WWF European Champion.
Rather than what they did, I'd have Shane McMahon feud with Mideon and Mideon wins the championship somewhat legitimately. Keep Shane's basic disregard for the belt, but Mideon displays real passion for it. Mideon begins to show signs of the Corporate Ministry/Ministry of Darkness' brainwashing wearing off and starts to rebel ending with him feuding with Shane. Eventually, it comes out that The Undertaker did this purposely to give a more legitimate reason for the Ministry disbanding quietly due to his injury. Using this Mideon maintains this gimmick and does the Undertaker's bidding for awhile longer as European Champion and there is no "naked Mideon".
Yeah the SS2014 bit was great. It was when they started burying WCW for no reason that it went bad. They owned WCW! So so petty.
Sting was booked better in TNA than in WWE. Tbf, I probably say the same of Samoa Joe, The Club and most of the TNA talent that were not competition but WWE took anyway had crap storylines. AJ is the only one to make it as big as he was in TNA for like a few months.
I'm about to ask a mod to close this thread and delete after reading this nonsense lol.
Sting came to the WWE when he was 54 years old and had been in TNA for like 10 years going over every up and coming talent that TNA built.
I'm going to hate myself for this but yes, in the TNA bubble AJ was huge but in the wrestling bubble AJ Styles has surpassed his time in TNA. He was WWE champion for a year....Can you even remember a TNA World title reign AJ had? Going back to Sting, I think if he came over when his WCW contract ended in 2002-2003 his WWE run would've been awesome. The problem is Sting is both smart and full of shit. He said the WWE product was too over the top (go watch TNA and tell me they were any more/less than WWE at the time, if not worse) so he chose TNA. The reality is TNA were marks for him and were going to make him the #1 guy whereas WWE were 100x bigger than TNA and Sting wouldn't have been the top paid, #1 guy.
You can call a mod for how wrong you are. Sting in AEW is a thousand times better than WWE Sting. They could have ran Sting vs Taker, but went with jobbing him out to HHH and then Rollins when he was injuring half the roster at that time. I may agree with some of your TNA theories, but WWE fucked the unfuckable with Sting.
Edit...Raw in in late 2002 til 2005 was at times unwatchable.
There are no theories, it's what happened. Sting was the highest paid wrestler making over a million dollars a year in TNA. He was constantly booked in the main event, World title, and putting over people was few and far between. His time in AEW is almost as laughable. He's getting 7 figures to beat people 30-40 years younger than him. Look at this record, show me the Sting loss. AEW is also a small company so I'm not really trying to compare 60+ year old legends being used there versus WWE.
The fact is Sting came to the WWE too late. 110% agree he should've beat Triple H and even if he didn't they should've booked it better (the nWo part was lame). He did get a World title shot and was injured, had an entire WWE hall of fame ceremony built around him where he literally retired on the stage. What else were they to do with a guy that old who couldn't even take a buckle bomb without going into paralysis on live tv? But yes, he should've had an undefeated run like in AEW where he beat Roman, Ambrose, KO, and Seth without breaking a sweat lol.
I think a ppv that needed re-booked was KOTR 1995. They wanted to create a monster for Diesel, they were low on top tier heels so here comes King Mabel. I think the mistake was going from one giant (sid) to another (mabel). If they really wanted Mabel to face Diesel, he didn't need to win KOTR as the winner wasn't gifted a title shot or anything. Me personally I would've had Shawn win it. Shawn winning the Rumble and KOTR in the same year would've been cool. Not 100% original as Bret/Lex were co-winners the year Bret won KOTR.
I would've made it Shawn v. Mabel in the finals, Diesel helps Shawn which sets up Summerslam or the July IYH.
Vince McMahon should have been Kurt Angle's son
lol I mean it's better than Hornswoggle being Vince's son.
This thread is going to get even more Sting-heavy: Starrcade 1997.
Personally I felt like they were trying to recapture what had happened in Montreal a month prior. WCW were the ones who were known for blurring the lines of reality and Montreal is where WWF stole the title. WCW tried to steal it back and it was corny (they tried it again a year or two later with Piper/Goldberg/Bret).
I'm not saying Sting should've won clean that wouldn't make sense considering the size and strength of the nWo. We should've had something to similar to WM 31 where you would have the nWo coming down, trying to interfere. Out comes DDP, Giant, Steiners to even the odds. You want the screwjob finish do it right. Nick Patrick tries to screw Sting, that's when Bret comes out w/ Mickey J, drops Patrick, and Bret's ref makes the 3-count when Sting deathdrops Hollywood.
That gives you Hogan v. Sting II at nWo Souled Out with Bret challenging the winner at Superbrawl or Uncensored. Bret should've been wrestling on Starrcade. He was free the night after SS 97. You put him in that program with Flair immediately. Flair tells Bret that unlike Piper, Bret has to pick a side because everyone coming in from the North are not to be trusted. Bret v. Flair #1 contender's match at Starracade.
More sting it is. Spin the wheel make the deal. Coal minor match should have been replaced with either Jake's choice ) snake pit) or falls count anywhere. Personally I would not have minded watching blindfold match.
Last edited by Bluegunn; March 15th, 2023 at 4:29 AM.
Austin thought he was getting stale at the time and wanted to do something different, figured the ultimate shocking heel turn would be for him to align with Vince. He has said in interviews since that he probably should have called an audible and stunned Vince after the match at Mania. In hindsight, he regrets the heel turn because it ended up only working for such a short period of time and didn't need to happen.
I know the idea was that Triple H was supposed to turn babyface and we would get heel Austin v. babyface Trips. Somehow that plan is scrapped but they keep Austin heel. Austin didn't read the room very well and again, in hindsight it worked the first couple months. I'd have to go back and listen to Austin or even Prichard talk about this time in WWE but I wonder if they kind of "stuck to their guns" with keeping Austin a heel through the Invasion angle. If we knew then what we know now where Austin was only going to be around sparingly after 2001 before "retiring" at WM 19....I bet they would've at the very least turned him back tweener in the summer of 2001 to lead Team WWF. You still keep him and Vince side by side, you still keep him as a tweener where nobody on either side truly trusts him, except Vince. Vince of all people trusting Austin would've been enough. 2001 didn't suck, but it did show that in some weird way WWF needed WCW to keep them on their toes.
I’m reading that people didn’t like this, so I’d go with Tatanka’s heel turn. They almost had something with this but it seems that for some reason the Million Dollar Corporation wasn’t interested in holding all the gold like many other wrestling stables, almost all of them. When Tatanka joined they started him on the path of collecting the WWF Tag Team Titles, I think they could have kept that going until WMXII. By having a triple threat match with The Bodydonnas and The Godwinns for the vacant belts. A feud with the Bodydonnas would make sense because they were one time allies, but never official Corporation members. Then the Godwinn angle would work as well because at least one of them was a member of the Corporation who got forcibly removed in its early days, and you could throw something in there about the other one not being able to be bought. Then, you actually have a match in which the Corporations team is the underdogs because it looks like a two-on-one going in.
I never understood why they turned Tatanka to begin with. It reminds me of when they turned Rikishi heel. Solid top tier babyface getting good reactions and then turns heel because.......? As a young teen I probably saw the turn coming a mile away it was so obvious.
Attempted shock value in both case. The Tatanka heel turn on Luger was pretty shocking at the time dragging Luger’s name through the mud. Perhaps he could’ve soared higher keeping as a face.
Rikishi was like the writers wanted somebody unexpected and drew Rikishi’s name out the hat lol. He definitely shouldn’t have been turned.
Rikishi could have been immense if they'd kept him face. I'll never forget when he faced HHH on Smackdown and he pretty much had him beat w/ the entire crowd going bonkers behind him. I still have the image of Too Cool dancing w/ Kish and the whole audience clapping to their music. Lord, those were good times.
Tatanka lost all momentum since his turn. Luger would have been the better one to turn. But Vince kept wanting to copy his hogan formula. Heck, bulldog was already turning anyway so not sure why they did not just turn him on Luger. It made sense since bulldog kept hearing USA chants during all of thier matches
It would've worked if he had gone full on "man they call Vader" annihilating opponents and dropping the stinkface. Some new attire would've been helpful like his Headshrinker tights with boots.
How do we save Chris Harris? Tag team? MFer of ECW?
You keep him in developmental until he looks how he did against James Storm in that hardcore match they did. You make sure he can be an asset. I was never a fan of his. I didn't really care for America's Most Wanted either. Definitely don't put him on tv looking like shit. What was his story? Drugs? Injuries? He had potential and TNA were trying to get him in that spot but then he left for WWE. Came back to TNA, nobody cared.
I liked the way the InVasion was done, but it seems that there is a not insignificant number of people who believe that it could have been done better, so if I had to make some changes I think the following would suffice:
First, I'd make it longer. Giving more time to it means that not only can you do more with the potential and talent you have, but you can also recover from any mistakes you might make. It's a precaution more than a necessity, but I would say a net benefit would happen had there been more time, it, perhaps, could have even landed certain names that were unattainable at the beginning.
I'd throw another authority figure into the mix outside of the McMahon family. I think I'd bring in Ric Flair early before he comes in in 2002 because that would also give that angle more time.
I also like an idea I've seen proposed where ECW comes in initially as an ally to WCW, but then splits off to form a three part war that, if you want to be ambitious, could also start the One Night Stand era early and we could get more than two of those. I'd also see if the NWA would be interested in working a brief stint in this only to increase the reasoning behind why Ric Flair's role begins to become more prominent, but the NWA would have to take a very obvious 4th only being involved for a few months before being taken out to heavily make one side look good.
One important thing, is they should have featured the titles from the other promotions much more prominently here.
WCW is able to secure their own program at an hour long, ECW takes over Heat or something completely.
Heyman and Bischoff both get in the ring occasionally, but never against Ric and Vince until the last three matches of the entire InVasion.
More defections.
Heyman, Bischoff, Vince, and Flair in one huge segment.
Huge matches: War Games, Elimination Chamber, Ladder (maybe MITB), Royal Rumble, Survivor Series, Hell in A Cell, Extreme Rules, and 8-on-8/10-on-10 Tag Matches.
It all concludes at the 2003 Draft (meaning that 1 Draft took place while the Invasion was still happening).
Many people have said the Invasion angle could've been done 100x better. For starters, you basically had DDP, Booker T, and the lower card for Thunder as Team WCW. I agree, should've put it off-or maybe stick with the original plan of having Nitro on Monday and I believe Raw was then going to move to Thurs/Friday, could've been the other way around.
Basically you wait until you get as many key players. nWo were available by the end of 2001/early 2002. Flair was there by the end of 2001. Looking back IDK if an invasion angle was the right call. Their original plan, to build to a WCW v. WWF "superbowl" so to speak at Mania 18, might've been the better option but you never know.
I think the bigger problem with that angle was what they did with WCW. ECW was great for what it was, but most fans at the time were watching WCW and WWF, and their dream feuds would've been WCW guys vs. WWF guys. They should've never put ECW and WCW in an alliance making it seem like they had to team up to beat WWF guys. They should've included major stars instead of a bunch of jobbers. They should've never had Austin join them. If they did they could've said he started out in WCW and was being loyal to his roots. But nope, no acknowledgment of that, they just say he's with WCW to screw Vince. The whole angle between the three biggest promotions of the '90s was basically reduced to just another McMahon family feud angle. But ratings were slumping, and with Benoit and HHH injured their plans were pretty screwed up that summer. So Vince hit the panic button and jumpstarted the Invasion.
Although that's the same year the XFL crashed and burned so he probably would've been better off giving the money to Bischoff and company. He could've at least made a return on that investment.
Without Austin the sides were just not even. They briefly had a few Stunning Steve Austin signs early on. But they had lots of guys that could have defected and make them look stronger. Big Show is a big name that stayed, X-Pac really could have switched earlier, as with Jericho. Heck. even HHH could have if they let it ride long enough. In fact I think HHH and the Kliq leading WCW could have been great.
What also hurt is including people who worked for WCW who didn't exactly like WCW lol. Of all people you put Stone Cold in that faction. It was almost as bad as having nWo Hogan helping Sting at Mania. Jericho was another guy that I didn't really get turning and joining the Alliance. But Jericho was someone who I feel like would've been a better fit than Austin.
I also agree it was about trying to even the playing field as much as possible. WWF could've done that by giving WCW some big wins. DDP as the stalker, that reveal got an enormous pop. Then he gets squashed......Someone got in Vince's ear or Vince had a moment where he just said fuck it, I only spent $2 million on this company I got what I wanted (the library, the trademarks) so let's bury this shit. Show me a WCW guy that wasn't treated like a chump at some point after WCW died. Even Ric Flair was on the pre-show of a Mania, doing jobber matches with Carlito of all people. Look at the nWo, Scott Steiner, etc.
That's why it's so shocking how Goldberg was booked the 2nd time around. Who's dick did he suck?
Vince had options to create new stars, but never bothered doing it, because they preferred to flush and pad their ego rather than give the fans what they wanted. Ratings decline shows folks were disappointed. The buyrate for Invasion was a monster...if Goldberg had been on there, it would've paid for his buyout no problem. Eric Bischoff as the head of WCW, and Heyman as the head of ECW?
But all the above hinges on folks wanting to do the angle properly.
They did have it right early though, but jumped the gun on the invasion. Having wwe heels getting beat by wcw would at least make them look stronger. They did not have to invade so early. Face booker beating heel Austin early could have made the sides look stronger. Do that a few months before pulling trigger on invasion. It would allow for a mania build.
How about the feud between Jerry Lawler and Jake Roberts, which nobody seemed to like. I would have put Lawler's spot at the commentary desk at stake, but that's just me. At the time, Lawler was doing a bit where he was essentially commentating his own matches, so he made it appear that commentating was very important to him. But, actually a feud with Lawler could have lined Jake Roberts up for a King of the Ring victory.
The argument could be made that maybe the WWE felt like, despite the Invasion ppv getting a great buyrate, that if people weren't watching WCW with Nash, Sting, Goldberg, Flair, Steiner, they sure as shit weren't going to watch Mark Jindrak, Kanyon, and Big Vito.
Could you have created new stars by having guys like Undertaker and The Rock lose to Sean O'Hare and Johnny the Bull? No. It didn't work in WCW it definitely wouldn't work here. That's why they had to merge everyone together because the star power and credibility was almost non-existent for WCW. Booker T and DDP were the most credible guys and were already established.
Without the big names it doesn't work and by the Invasion even us fans knew this was going to be mediocre. When you realized no other big names were showing up and it's Summerslam, you're just kind of like...yay Mike Awesome v. Edge....
It feels like in a different time Lawler v. Roberts would've been awesome. I was very excited for the return of the Jake the Snake, one of my absolute all time favorites. My problem at that time when I was a young teen was I didn't really know about Lawler's accomplishments so when he was working with Bret and Jake I was like, man this is kind of a big step down for these two. Lawler was a commentator that said goofy shit even in the New Gen era.
A little ahead of it's time. I would've just not done the feud because it made Jake come across like a lower card guy, the subject matter was during that limbo phase of WWE where they had one foot in Pillman's house and the other in Dink's. I would've left out Aldo as well man he looked stupid as hell. 1997 it works a little better. For when it did....Yeah I think if they wanted to use what they did, trying to tie it in to Jake winning KOTR-which was never going to happen-would've been solid. But then you either kill HHH or Austin winning.
If Roberts had gone over it wouldn’t have been so bad. But yeah he didn’t and it was a let-down. Roberts shutting Lawler up would’ve done.
Last edited by Badger; March 27th, 2023 at 3:13 PM.
I'm looking at Jake's last year in WWF and man there are some weird matches. For example, Raw Nov 18th 1996: Jake the Snake/Marc Mero v. Billy Gunn/Hunter Hearst Helmsley.
Now I knew Jake lost at Summerslam 1996 but he did get the win back a month later on Raw.
I'm sure there were people who didn't like the God thing they did, so let's talk about that.
If they were going to have God do a run-in they had plenty of religious themed gimmicks where that would have been better.
Cults are one thing, and I'm not going to get into some stupid ass debate about Christianity being a cult. But Cults are one thing, if Undertaker has his own Ministry whatever. The Wyatt Family, that's more my speed. But when you start bringing in the actual major religions, you set yourself up for failure. As a fan there are two things I really don't want and that's politics and God.
It just doesn't work on this level. Maybe in some CHIKARA joke setting you could shine a light on Vince and he would be paralyzed it would be kind of comical and lighthearted. Does Vince come across as the guy who takes time away from WWE to read the good book? Doubtful lol.
Here's one that's for the old school heads: Red Rooster. I was never a fan of any version of Terry Taylor but he was a good worker. The only time I was slightly a fan was early WCW he had a team with Greg Valentine that didn't really go anywhere. He had a stupid name too, the Taylor Made Man. The story is that supposedly he might've been Mr. Perfect but Hennig got the role. Would it have simply been as easy as removing the cockadoodledoo and hair?
When you think back to that era so many gimmicks were pretty self explanatory, even if it was simply a theme based on a nickname i.e. Ricky the Dragon, Texas Tornado Kerry Von Erich. Red Rooster.....
What I would've done is make him all about the high life. He's partying it up, he's driving a sweet car, if he's a good guy he's positive and hanging out with the people. If he's a heel he's above them, the cock of the walk. He debuted as a heel I believe with Heenan. Problem was Heenan had like 5 other guys way better than Terry including King Haku. Maybe debuting on his own would've been better.
The lead up to Jericho vs HHH at X8 could have been done much better.
Major understatement as that wouldn’t take much.
Jericho hating on Steph and Hunter for years then Steph makes him take their dog Lucy for a walk who shits all over the place.
Although no matter how great they made that build, Rock and Hogan was always going to overshadow it and should’ve been the main event that year.
Up until then only 2 matches had ever closed the show without the title being on the line and only one without the champ (Mania 11).
In hindsight I'd still leave Triple H v. Jericho as the main event. Mania 18 was just a great card to be honest. You had Taker/Flair earlier in the night, you had Austin v. Scott Hall which was a dream match for many even if Hall wasn't the Hall of 95-98. Hollywood v. Rock took what was left and then you had a good triple threat wiht Lita, Trish, and Jazz. It's one of those hindsight things but go back and watch that main event, the fans were into it. I think there are wrestlers and fans who think that people would've been into it more if it was on earlier-no, it was Jericho v. Triple H. Yay. lol. Triple H returned to a big pop and by Mania we realized why we stopped giving him big pops after 1999. Jericho was never and still isn't as big as he thinks he is no matter if he beat Austin/Rock the same night he was still a top tier midcarder. If anything they should've had Rock win the Rumble and face Jericho and then do Austin v. Hogan and Triple H/??? v. The Outsiders.
I don't care that it went on last. The story ended up being more about HHH vs Steph than anything Jericho.
I would've preferred that we got Austin vs. Hogan at WrestleMania 14 after Hogan coming back to WWF had been rumored since '97.
Terrific Terry Taylor. He could have been the face version of Mr perfect. The two had some chemistry in the ring. Having him do things similar to perfect.
But being the 80s he may as well been a seamstress and play am actual tailor. Terry the tailor. Come out in custom suits. Heck now a days he could come out as the tailor for Seth Rollins.
That might work if hbk agreed to stop the title to Owen.
Speaking of Austin in 98. Do you think he could have had a good match with PCO? Even if on raw. They had both on the roster at the time.
Last edited by Bluegunn; April 3rd, 2023 at 7:17 PM.
How would that have worked though? That would actually be a fun situation to try and fantasy book because when would he have returned? I just can't see Hogan leaving WCW in 1997 when they were crushing Vince. And how do we get Austin v. Hogan, for the title?
lol the tailor for Seth. I do like the idea of him being a babyface Mr. Perfect. Someone just as good if not possibly better than a guy claiming to be "Mr Perfect"
Are we talking the pirate? Sure. I'll be honest I'm looking at his win/loss record in 1998 I don't remember him and Jacques in WWF at this time at all. I'm stuck on them in WCW as the French Canadians or whatever they were called lol. I do remember Brawl 4 All where he got knocked out but other than that I'm too tired lol.
PCO was a good worker. I forgot sometimes how young he was when he joined the WWF.
This seems like the perfect thread to suggest that the ending of WM 39 should have been re-booked and had Cody go over.
Too soon to say. Let the chase play out for a bit. A detour through Lesnar isn't going to hurt Rhodes a bit.
Like Cass said it's too early to re-book something that hasn't played out. I mean the simple thing is to just say WM 39 Cody should've won. That's it lol. There's no "because instead we got Roman v. Elias for the next 3 months"
I could see Terry the tailor doing segments similar to Shane Douglas. He sizes up his opponents in each of his promos.
The Quebecers opened up wrestlemania 14. Pco vs bret hart one of the most underrated matches ever. He and Austin could have had some great matches.
You could've done an interesting story with Austin the rebel vs. McMahon bringing in Hogan and talking about how he made so much money with him and Hogan was a company man. "Why can't you be like Hogan was?!" Stuff like that.
They opened it with like 15 other teams lol. I just watched the March 9th 1998 ep of Raw with Cactus Jack/Chainsaw v. Quebecers. It still didn't ring a bell. Which is very rare for me usually it only takes seeing them in that era and boom, I'm back. But I can't stop thinking about them in WCW at this time.
Bret had a string of underrated matches with Pierre, Hakushi, and 123 Kid. IDC what anyone says...the early mid 90's WWF might not have been a ratings juggernaut like the Attitude Era, but New Gen era had some of the best WWF matches of all time imo. It's what held the WWF together, it's why losing Razor and Diesel to WCW and also Bret taking off 5-6 months after Mania hurt so much.
I could get down with that. Then you could turn Hogan babyface when he fails and Vince turns on him saying "You should've never came back" Red and Yellow running wild again.
Last edited by Nash Diesel; April 4th, 2023 at 4:50 PM.
How would you book the end of run in man? beefcake
A Beefcake run like wCw did with Darsow where he had amnesia and came out each week in one of his old gimmicks would be gold.
I think something small they could have done for Jinder Mahal was change him stealing the WWE Championship from Randy Orton. I think it would have made a difference if they had The Singh Brothers steal it and present it to him only to have him reject it and be angry with them doing that. Then have Mahal return the championship to Orton with one of those "I'm going to win it the right way, but hang on to it for me for now" speeches.
Babyface Jinder? Dude had such a weird run. He was a heel outside of India, they were literally doing commentary trying to spin what he was doing as an act of good lol.
Shout out to that market though it's very profitable for pro wrestling. I just think Jinder should've been US champ first then maybe World champ. The WWE catered to a market that does like pro wrestling and watches it religiously on youtube. But then you have Triple H beat him. Doesn't make sense.
They rushed it for sure. I think he could have won mitb and cashed in India or just before the show if that was what they wanted.
It was definitely one of those weird situations where it felt like the WWE simply positioned a guy who wasn't even from India he was from Toronto and they made it out like all the had to do was put the World title on him.
That is part of the battle they will deal with being publicly traded and now with a larger company owning. What makes the most money will not always align with what makes a good wrestling show.
The best part is they didn't really see any growth with Jinder in the top position. I don't think the target demo wanted to see Jinder Mahal as champion. They're not dumb, idc how you spin it in the translation. WWE insulted that fanbase's intelligence by thinking oh we need Jinder to crack into that market.
If Jinder had been built up properly you might've had a better shot at making some money. People in the Middle East don't really care if you look like them just like I don't need Seth Rollins as champion simply because he's an Iowan.
They had potential to create another JBL though with Jindar. He could have grown on you if done fought. But JBL had guys to work with. Jindar did get one clean win over Nakamura. I think he might have done ok without the bollywood boys. Just finding ways to sneak out a win.
The problem though, is that the Bollywood Boys had more talent than Jinder. They certainly sold better, and they did their job better than Jinder did his. The huge miss they had with Jinder was in not doing anything to wash the 3MB Jobber stink off of him. He went from enhancement talent to overpushed main event in a period of weeks, coincidentally just before the big WWE tour of India.
I agree with the others that they could/should have tried to rebuild Jinder to give him some credibility first.
In a way they did. JBL was a guy who wasn't really over on his own and then one day he has the JR from Dallas gimmick. And it worked in the sense that it was the best gimmick next to the APA stuff he's ever done. The only problem for me is that he held the WWE title way too long. Once he lost the title, he was never really in the mix again and within a few years he was back to being a non-factor and then retired.
Jinder had plenty of people to work with. Orton, AJ Styles, Shinsuke, I just don't think people appreciated the forced push. Jinder hasn't challenged for the World title since losing it. He had that brief US title run which is what they should've had him win at the start. US title, THEN see if there's room for him as a World champion main eventer.
Who wants to rebook the Kane/Triple H feud featuring the notorious Katie Vick angle?
If Katie Vick HAS to be part of it here's what they should've done. #1-Under no circumstances do we do the Triple H coffin scene. #2-I would've made her a figment of Kane's imagination. Triple H can't find any record of her being alive but Kane would still have had this obsession with someone named "Katie Vick" who would've been like an amalgamation of his mother, girls/people who were scared of his looks.
Triple H would then come to find out that Kane had a mannequin that was his "girlfriend". Maybe Triple H finds the actual mannequin and destroys it, setting it on fire which sets Kane into demon mode again.
I'm not negative to the idea that was a "real" Katie Vick and maybe despite Kane's burned looks she liked him for he was but then she died for whatever reason at the hands of Kane or maybe Paul Bearer is revealed to have helped Kane hide the body.
Katie Vick would've worked 100x better after See No Evil. What ruined it was the coffin scene. Everything else was kind of in the vein of weird shit with Kane. I still think the reveal that Paul was really his dad and Taker's mother had an affair was a little much.
Kane was ruined for me the second they had him start talking. First a stupid voice box, then a regular voice. Then unmasking. Kane went through a mess. I prefer 97-98 Kane by a long shot.
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