SURVIVOR SERIES 2022 WAR GAMES 11-26-2022

[Nash Diesel]

LIVE! Saturday November 26th, 2022 from the TD Garden in Boston, MA

Team EST (Bianca Belair, Asuka, Alexa Bliss, Mia Yim, and TBD) v. Team Damage CTRL (Bayley, Dakota Kai, Iyo Sky, Nikki Cross, and Rhea Ripley)

The Brawling Brutes (Sheamus, Ridge, Butch), Drew McIntyre, and Kevin Owens v. The Bloodline (Reigns, Solo, Zayn, and The Usos)

Ronda Rousey (c) v. Shotzi-Smackdown Women's Championship

AJ Styles (w/ The OC in his corner) v. Finn Balor (w/ The Judgment Day in his corner)

Seth Rollins v. Austin Theory v. Bobby Lashley-US Championship Triple Threat Match

[Donald]

First Survivor Series I'll be missing live. I'm going to WrestleCade this year instead. Looks like a good show so far, minus Rousey vs. Shotzi.

[Nash Diesel]

First Survivor Series I'll be missing live. I'm going to WrestleCade this year instead. Looks like a good show so far, minus Rousey vs. Shotzi.

I just looked up who they were having this year and that sounds pretty fuckin dope. RVD, Sabu, American Males, Jake the Snake, DDP, Tatanka, Typhoon, Greg the Hammer, Amber Nova (who the fuck?), even your homeboy Douche Hausen will be there.

I'm not big on meeting "celebs" but RVD is someone I want to meet. He was here promotion Mania 22 or 23 and my wife didn't think I could get the time off to go to the signing so she took my son who was 3-4 years old. I had no idea they were going and on one hand I was fuckin pissed she didn't ask if I could get time off-because I had like 3 weeks of vacation time that I could've used-but on the other I was glad someone in my fam got to meet him.

[Donald]

Was hoping to meet Karrion Kross and Scarlett, but they pulled out, but I knew that was going to happen because it's Survivor Series. Johnny Gargano also pulled out but I'd pay not to see him. I'm looking forward to meeting Greg Valentine, to be honest. I'd be happy just meeting him.

[Donald]

I'm sure I've seen a WarGames match before, but is it first fall wins?

[Nash Diesel]

I'm sure I've seen a WarGames match before, but is it first fall wins?

Yes. Pinfall or submission.

[Donald]

They should incorporate the survivor series elimination aspect into these matches. Maybe no one can be eliminated until all participants are in the maych.

[Nash Diesel]

They should incorporate the survivor series elimination aspect into these matches. Maybe no one can be eliminated until all participants are in the maych.

It would be tough. There's no tags so getting a pinfall/submission against more than 1 guy is going to be tough plus it'd be long as fuck since there's 5 minute intervals between each participant.

[NeseToTheFace]

If they had a stipulation of winning team goes to an elimination match to determine a #1 contender that would create lots of chaos and really open it up for Sami to get his title shot. No idea what they're gonna end up doing for a #1 contender for the Rumble and a title match but it would be fun watching the four Usos battle it out.

[Nash Diesel]

If they had a stipulation of winning team goes to an elimination match to determine a #1 contender that would create lots of chaos and really open it up for Sami to get his title shot. No idea what they're gonna end up doing for a #1 contender for the Rumble and a title match but it would be fun watching the four Usos battle it out.

I wouldn't be negative to that.

I do have to say....We don't talk enough about the time Sami already got a World title match and was completely destroyed by Roman a year ago. Was that the start of all this??

[NeseToTheFace]

I wouldn't be negative to that.

I do have to say....We don't talk enough about the time Sami already got a World title match and was completely destroyed by Roman a year ago. Was that the start of all this??

I was thinking of Damon Kemp becoming part of Diamond Mine just to try and destroy them. I doubt the intent was Sami joining the Bloodline to destroy them from within, but it sure has elevated him. Even if it ends up with he and Owens just winning the tag titles, that's a result I would be okay with.

[Nash Diesel]

Yeah people like Sami Zayn I don't think need to get a World title reign because he's funny. Yes, good wrestler, but very entertaining just not a World title champion.

[LibSuperstar]

Yeah I don't see them putting the belt on Zayn. Rhodes if anything.

[Goratrix]

In a company where Jack Swagger was a world champ, no one is off the table.

[Badger]

The thing about Zayn is he’s popular and funny af despite being a weaselly snivelling bad guy. If they actually turned him face and have him pander, there’s a chance the magic could be gone. I’m not sure his current character is necessarily the best suit to be a World Champion. I think they’d have to reboot him somewhat to the underdog character he had but again you may lose some of the magic he has now.

[Donald]

I'd like to see one of the Uso's unseat Roman.

[Badger]

I'd like to see one of the Uso's unseat Roman.

Small chance Jey could pull it off but for the fact everyone is so behind Sami and Roman is playing the cool heel type (ironically like HHH). It would have to take something extraordinary like maybe Jimmy turning on him too or if Jey REALLY lays the smack down on Roman possibly using the HHH comparison. Let him know he’s become the very thing he hated.

[Nash Diesel]

The thing about Zayn is he’s popular and funny af despite being a weaselly snivelling bad guy. If they actually turned him face and have him pander, there’s a chance the magic could be gone. I’m not sure his current character is necessarily the best suit to be a World Champion. I think they’d have to reboot him somewhat to the underdog character he had but again you may lose some of the magic he has now.

He's a prime example of why not everyone who's over needs to be World champion. Plus, timing matters. I think you COULD put the title on him and people would like it but dethroning Roman....Idk. Crazy thing is, if you look back at the historic reigns some of them ended on some wild shit. Hogan for example, 4+ year reign and look how that ended. Shenanigans.

When I think about it, Zayn is kind of like Attitude Era Mick Foley. IF you put the World title on him it's transitional, it's brief, because the character in it's present form doesn't warrant anything more. Especially as a babyface. He could've been World champ with the conspiracy stuff. Here he's just an extremely entertaining talent.

[lotjx]

I would love for this to the beginning of the end of the Bloodline story, but I doubt it. I got a feeling Sami will sacrifice himself to save Roman and have Roman pin KO. Then we have two months of KO/Roman where KO has to fight all the bloodline to get a title shot, because he is a loser like all of Roman's opponents. Everyone is a loser and not worthy of anyone's time. The WWE main event scene is trash right now and the Bloodline is not helping. I get people love it, modern day 4 Horsemen and all, but I have been bored with this story for a year. Sami has done yeomen work the last few months to make it interesting, but this end has to come to an end sooner than later.

[Nash Diesel]

To each his own but while you have been bored over the last year, everyone else seems to feel the exact opposite.

The Bloodline works as a stable. I want to see it continue for several more years if they can sustain it. It can be used as a way to keep vets fresh and new blood can get a rub.

What I will say is this. 10 years ago if you told me El Generic from ROH of all fucking people would be in the position he's in, I'd die from laughter. Another guy who was outside the WWE bubble that people couldn't see fitting in very similar to Bryan Danielson and here we are. Impressive and props to WWE and Zayn for taking that chance.

[Donald]

Yeah lotjx is the first person I've seen saying they are bored of the Bloodline.

[Nash Diesel]

*updated the match card*

[Nash Diesel]

Curious who the 5 person for the women will be. I'd love for it to be Beth Phoenix. I would be a huge fan of seeing Raquel Rodriguez as she has the history with Dakota Kai plus she's a great talent. I thought I heard Candice LaRae was hurt but as we saw with KO you can never trust what you hear/read on social media. This was a fan talking not Ryan Satin or Meltzer so I'm not sure where they heard about the injury. Charlotte Flair seems like a great choice and they advertised her return at Castle. Per her own words she's good to go whenever so who knows. That tie-in with Flair and War Games seems like a much needed accolade on her resume.

[Donald]

Could be Becky Lynch too, if she's ready. Though I'd wait for her at the Rumble. That pop will be amazing.

Rumblings of Chelsea Green returning, but I don't think she's gonna get much of a reaction.

I think it will be CHarlotte.

[Nash Diesel]

If Becky is ready to go the storyline is right there so that would be pretty huge. Rumble's only 2 months away but that's a long 2 months. You add Becky and Charlotte into the mix right now that's going to elevate the women's roster even more. Very curious about the status of Naomi and Sasha Banks. Naomi news is almost non-existent. Sasha's been out there training with Kalisto and the Juice, very similar to how she went over to Japan prior to her last return. I just don't see either of them being #5.

[BGMaverick]

Just a thought experiment, looking a year ago at Survivor Series from 2021, wanting to see where things have gotten better or worse over the course of a year.

2021: Champion versus Champion - Nakamura (IC) versus Priest (US)
I think Nakamura has definitely flattened out since then, particularly due to losing Boogs, and Priest has probably been relatively okay due to Judgment Day. The championships, however, have definitely seen a radical improvement in terms of important. Triple H has realized that with Reigns taking up the top title and not being around that those two belts have to be propped up and I think both championships are in much better places.

2021: Champion versus Champion - Becky (Raw) versus Charlotte (SD)
Raw versus Smackdown - Bianca Belair, Rhea Ripley, Liv Morgan, Carmella, and Queen Zelina vs. Sasha Banks, Shayna Baszler, Shotzi, Natalya, and Toni Storm
I would say Bianca has done well in terms of making the most of her reign. Ronda, however, hasn't done a lot in her short time to really help elevate things. In a lot of ways, Ronda has been WWE-ized and has lost some of the magical luster she had when she came in. As for the divisions, they definitely haven't improved over the course of the year. There's been some sudden departures, confusion over the tag division and other things. Triple H has usually done really well by the women, so this will be something to monitor over time.

Raw versus Smackdown: Seth Rollins, Finn Bálor, Kevin Owens, Austin Theory, and Bobby Lashley vs. Drew McIntyre, Jeff Hardy, King Woods, Happy Corbin, and Sheamus
Funny how 3/5 of Raw will be squaring off for the US championship. Crazy to think Hardy was here and just went away. You see a lot of the same names here that are prevalent now. I'm not sure that speaks positively or negatively to the scope of the mid card but they're there. At least there are some fresh faces in the mix now that kind of just have to assert themselves as prominent figures.

Champion versus Champion: RK-Bro versus The Usos
I would say the tag division was in a really good spot a few months back but the dominant reign for The Usos has kind of sucked up all of the energy in the division. I think there's enough there for tag teams, so things will open up when they eventually lose the gold. Riddle has definitely lost his way since Orton got hurt, and we have no inclination that Orton is coming back any time soon. Hopefully he's able to have another good run in him, potentially his last major one.

Champion versus Champion: Roman Reigns vs. Big E
Sad emoji for Big E. The run wasn't much and his career could very much be over. Reigns has assuredly rose in prominence but now the big question is who will dethrone him. It's a short list of people who can actually do it. I will be curious to see what kind of role Reigns has when he is beaten and keeps his part-time schedule.

[Tyson]

The WWE main event scene is trash right now and the Bloodline is not helping. I get people love it, modern day 4 Horsemen and all, but I have been bored with this story for a year.

Say what now?

[lotjx]

Say what now?

I am BOREEDD!!! Roman on top is not interesting. There is point in watching main events that Roman is going to win til Mania. I hope its Cody, but this spectator of Rock may show up is making it dumb. Rock didn't show up at the last Mania, he didn't show up for his own Anniversary Survivor Series show and he may show up at Hollywood Mania, but I don't think he is going to win or should win. Which means that we have to wait another year for them doing Brock/Roman 4,000 or YouTubers in the main event scene. WWE has no faith in Owens, AJ, Balor or anyone on the regular roster to be the Face of the Company.

[Badger]

I am BOREEDD!!! Roman on top is not interesting. There is point in watching main events that Roman is going to win til Mania. I hope its Cody, but this spectator of Rock may show up is making it dumb. Rock didn't show up at the last Mania, he didn't show up for his own Anniversary Survivor Series show and he may show up at Hollywood Mania, but I don't think he is going to win or should win. Which means that we have to wait another year for them doing Brock/Roman 4,000 or YouTubers in the main event scene. WWE has no faith in Owens, AJ, Balor or anyone on the regular roster to be the Face of the Company.

Not feeling very Ucey?

[VHS]

I am BOREEDD!!! Roman on top is not interesting. There is point in watching main events that Roman is going to win til Mania. I hope its Cody, but this spectator of Rock may show up is making it dumb. Rock didn't show up at the last Mania, he didn't show up for his own Anniversary Survivor Series show and he may show up at Hollywood Mania, but I don't think he is going to win or should win. Which means that we have to wait another year for them doing Brock/Roman 4,000 or YouTubers in the main event scene. WWE has no faith in Owens, AJ, Balor or anyone on the regular roster to be the Face of the Company.

[NeseToTheFace]

I'd love a twist with the mens Wargames match where it's not Sami that cost the Bloodline but Rikishi coming down to the ring(s) to do so. Still doing it for The Rock.

[VHS]

The Bloodline stuff has been WWE's best work in a long time, and I'm so happy Sami's getting a new chance to shine. I really think WWE can turn this into a Sami Zayn face turn for the ages and fuck it all... have Sami be the one to take down Roman at Wrestlemania. I think if done right, it could be a contender for biggest celebration since Daniel Bryan's Wrestlemania victory.

Looking back on Bryan's moment... I always felt it could have been bigger if it hadn't taken to gosh dang much for Vince to just make it Daniel vs Orton instead of being forced to tack Bryan on the Orton vs. Batista matchup. I'll never forget how upset fans were at Royal Rumble that Bryan lost his match against Bray in the opener and then wasn't even in the Rumble. And then going into Wrestlemania it becoming a triple threat was just ehh.

Fully behind Sami not becoming fully babyface, but having him come out victorious against Roman. Fantasy booking galore.

[NWo4LifeOr2Years]

WWE Survivor Series: WarGames 2022

WarGames Match
The Bloodline (Roman Reigns, Sami Zayn, The Usos and Solo Sikoa) vs. The Brawling Brutes, Drew McIntyre and Kevin Owens
Winner- Roman Reigns
Loser- Owens
Result- pin

WarGames Match
Bianca Belair, Asuka, Alexa Bliss, Mia Yim and TBA vs Damage Control, Nikki Cross and Rhea Ripley
Winner- Becky Lynch
Loser- Damage control - bayley
Result- pin

SmackDown Women’s Championship Match “*doubler**”
Ronda Rousey vs Shotzi
Winner- Rousey (submission)

AJ Styles vs Finn Balor
Winner- Balor (pin)

United States Championship Match
Seth Rollins vs Bobby Lashley vs Austin Theory
Winner- Rollins (pin)
Loser- Theory

Title Changes- 0

Don't forget how people win, title changes, show doubler and ppv doubler.

Name loser in Triple Threat for 1 extra point.

WarGames matches will be worth 6 points. Name the winning and losing combatants and how they won. Example: Owens pins Zayn. You get 3 points for predicting the right team. 1 point for naming the winner. 1 point for naming the loser. Finally, 1 point for naming the result (pin, submission or knock out).

[Jarrod1983]

Dam, fun Ozzy intro!

[Jarrod1983]

WWE Survivor Series: WarGames 2022

WarGames Match
The Bloodline (Roman Reigns, Sami Zayn, The Usos and Solo Sikoa) vs. The Brawling Brutes, Drew McIntyre and Kevin Owens
Winner- Roman Reigns
Loser- Owens
Result- pin

WarGames Match
Bianca Belair, Asuka, Alexa Bliss, Mia Yim and TBA vs Damage Control, Nikki Cross and Rhea Ripley
Winner- Becky Lynch
Loser- Damage control - bayley
Result- pin

SmackDown Women’s Championship Match “*doubler**”
Ronda Rousey vs Shotzi
Winner- Rousey (submission)

AJ Styles vs Finn Balor
Winner- Balor (pin)

United States Championship Match
Seth Rollins vs Bobby Lashley vs Austin Theory
Winner- Rollins (pin)
Loser- Theory

Title Changes- 0

Don't forget how people win, title changes, show doubler and ppv doubler.

Name loser in Triple Threat for 1 extra point.

WarGames matches will be worth 6 points. Name the winning and losing combatants and how they won. Example: Owens pins Zayn. You get 3 points for predicting the right team. 1 point for naming the winner. 1 point for naming the loser. Finally, 1 point for naming the result (pin, submission or knock out).

Wrong thread NWO.

[Jarrod1983]

Anyone else think Ridge Holland looks like a muscled up Chris Pratt?

[Jarrod1983]

Really enjoyed the show. End of men's WarGames was really good and it'll be fun to see this play out.

[BGMaverick]

Triple H and company have to make the first chunk of the WarGames matches matter and not spam everything at the end once the match is official. These crowds had a hard time getting interested because they saw the cages and they weren't interested in regular matches, so you need to add weapons and you need to make stuff matter across the match. If not, you're going to see the crowd just kind of sitting on their hands until things are official. Both matches picked up dramatically once it was official. That's a learning experience to build off of.

I thought Bálor/Styles was quite good but the crowd really didn't seem that invested. It's also a case that there might not be any meat left on the bone when it comes to these groups intermingling.

The Women's Championship match was a joke. It didn't even get the faint goal of making Shotzi matter after the fact a possibility. She wasn't a good opponent for Ronda, but Ronda still doesn't come across very fluid in these matches.

They crafted an absolutely great triple threat for the US Championship. It feels awfully hard to have a bad triple threat nowadays because of the talent pool, but these three guys really brought the goods (led by Rollins). What an incredibly clever finish, too. Lashley seems like he's in a holding pattern until Lesnar comes around, so it could be interesting to see Rollins as the hunter now for Theory. That or Rollins could move on to something to tide him over through the Rumble and Theory can establish his new self as champion again.

I can't imagine being bored with The Bloodline story. All of the characters matter, have layers, interact extremely well together, and they're entertaining. Tonight was a massive, massive step in making the eventual breakdown that much more impactful.

[virms]

The finish to the bloodline/brutes was beyond terrific. Some of the best booking yet.

[lotjx]

Lol Bloodline wins. The WWE has no real hero and that is the massive problem. Even when the 4 Horsemen were running around there was Dusty, Sting and God help us Luger. Same thing with the NWO, there was Piper, Sting and God help us Luger. Even Vince knew this and had Austin, Taker and Mankind eventually as the heroes during his heel run. The point of having massive faction is having a hero or heroes defy the odds to beat them. At this point, this is Evolution in 2003 which sucked. The fans have been beatdown by this decade Reigns experiment, they have just accepted and now the only interesting part for the men's side of the roster. If you don't have that, you have Judgement Day doing the same thing on Raw. WWE has now gone all into factions running the show where there is no face to invest in. Now, its just faction drama in the Bloodlines case, but that appears to be over. So, now we will head into the Rumble with nothing happening which fine, no one watches around December anyway.

So for Mania, we are going with Rock has to show up right???? Like he was supposed to at last Mania or even the Survivor Series that was dedicated to him. Nope. I am not saying it won't happen, but this Rock will show up fan theory hasn't panned out in the last five years, I am not sure it will now. Even if he does, he is losing to Roman, so we go back to Bloodline being dominate again for a few months until someone gets hurt or they do something with Sammi, who is going to beat Roman, stop it. It could be Cody, fits into the Horsemen/Rhoades. He will be over when he comes back. But will he win at WM 39 in Hollywood, not sure. Then there is the basic bitch of having Brock win it and do Brock/Roman for the 1000 time. Where Roman will win again. They have done a piss poor job of making faces or have made business decisions that the face can't win even though they should see Drew at Clash at the Castle or Edge or Bryan in the Triple Threat Main Event. Instead, they have gone ALL IN on the Bloodline story where it has been interesting, it hasn't done anything. A Youtuber is the only one to move the needle. WWE is in this weird holding pattern where nothing can really move. Bayley has been a jobber since she returned. The Judgement Day storyline is still going on, Austin Theory is still a thing for some reason, Seth is being Seth. Rousey is here and no one wants that, but no one has the ability to beat her clean. This has been the WWE since Summerslam and if not longer and that is not changing any time soon.

[virms]

Lol Bloodline wins. The WWE has no real hero and that is the massive problem. Even when the 4 Horsemen were running around there was Dusty, Sting and God help us Luger. Same thing with the NWO, there was Piper, Sting and God help us Luger. Even Vince knew this and had Austin, Taker and Mankind eventually as the heroes during his heel run. The point of having massive faction is having a hero or heroes defy the odds to beat them. At this point, this is Evolution in 2003 which sucked. The fans have been beatdown by this decade Reigns experiment, they have just accepted and now the only interesting part for the men's side of the roster. If you don't have that, you have Judgement Day doing the same thing on Raw. WWE has now gone all into factions running the show where there is no face to invest in. Now, its just faction drama in the Bloodlines case, but that appears to be over. So, now we will head into the Rumble with nothing happening which fine, no one watches around December anyway.

So for Mania, we are going with Rock has to show up right???? Like he was supposed to at last Mania or even the Survivor Series that was dedicated to him. Nope. I am not saying it won't happen, but this Rock will show up fan theory hasn't panned out in the last five years, I am not sure it will now. Even if he does, he is losing to Roman, so we go back to Bloodline being dominate again for a few months until someone gets hurt or they do something with Sammi, who is going to beat Roman, stop it. It could be Cody, fits into the Horsemen/Rhoades. He will be over when he comes back. But will he win at WM 39 in Hollywood, not sure. Then there is the basic bitch of having Brock win it and do Brock/Roman for the 1000 time. Where Roman will win again. They have done a piss poor job of making faces or have made business decisions that the face can't win even though they should see Drew at Clash at the Castle or Edge or Bryan in the Triple Threat Main Event. Instead, they have gone ALL IN on the Bloodline story where it has been interesting, it hasn't done anything. A Youtuber is the only one to move the needle. WWE is in this weird holding pattern where nothing can really move. Bayley has been a jobber since she returned. The Judgement Day storyline is still going on, Austin Theory is still a thing for some reason, Seth is being Seth. Rousey is here and no one wants that, but no one has the ability to beat her clean. This has been the WWE since Summerslam and if not longer and that is not changing any time soon.

Stop. The bloodline has a completely different dynamic to the horsemen and nwo. Those two factions were always heel vs good guy. The bloodline paints various shades of gray.

[Fanny Batter]

I think they've done well in having options for Reigns. Mainly because he's only wrestled Brock, Riddle, Drew and Logan all year. Rollins is fresh, Lashley is fresh, Owens is fresh, Wyatt is fresh, Cody is fresh, the Zayn turn is there. They need to make somebody at 'Mania though. The Rock isn't an interesting option unless Reigns does both nights. The Rock is a great guy, but conceptually The Rock character doesn't work as a 50 year old man, and if Dwayne isn't doing that then what's the point? Keep it simple - Cody return at the Rumble, wins it at 'Mania. That and The Usos vs. Owens/Zayn are the main events, unless the Zayn turn involves getting the belt off Roman to Rollins and you do Roman/Rock and Rollins/Cody for the title.

[mth]

Triple H and company have to make the first chunk of the WarGames matches matter and not spam everything at the end once the match is official. These crowds had a hard time getting interested because they saw the cages and they weren't interested in regular matches, so you need to add weapons and you need to make stuff matter across the match. If not, you're going to see the crowd just kind of sitting on their hands until things are official. Both matches picked up dramatically once it was official. That's a learning experience to build off of.

I thought Bálor/Styles was quite good but the crowd really didn't seem that invested. It's also a case that there might not be any meat left on the bone when it comes to these groups intermingling.

The Women's Championship match was a joke. It didn't even get the faint goal of making Shotzi matter after the fact a possibility. She wasn't a good opponent for Ronda, but Ronda still doesn't come across very fluid in these matches.

They crafted an absolutely great triple threat for the US Championship. It feels awfully hard to have a bad triple threat nowadays because of the talent pool, but these three guys really brought the goods (led by Rollins). What an incredibly clever finish, too. Lashley seems like he's in a holding pattern until Lesnar comes around, so it could be interesting to see Rollins as the hunter now for Theory. That or Rollins could move on to something to tide him over through the Rumble and Theory can establish his new self as champion again.

I can't imagine being bored with The Bloodline story. All of the characters matter, have layers, interact extremely well together, and they're entertaining. Tonight was a massive, massive step in making the eventual breakdown that much more impactful.

Thanks for writing my review for me.

[VHS]

Lol Bloodline wins. The WWE has no real hero and that is the massive problem. Even when the 4 Horsemen were running around there was Dusty, Sting and God help us Luger. Same thing with the NWO, there was Piper, Sting and God help us Luger. Even Vince knew this and had Austin, Taker and Mankind eventually as the heroes during his heel run. The point of having massive faction is having a hero or heroes defy the odds to beat them. At this point, this is Evolution in 2003 which sucked. The fans have been beatdown by this decade Reigns experiment, they have just accepted and now the only interesting part for the men's side of the roster. If you don't have that, you have Judgement Day doing the same thing on Raw. WWE has now gone all into factions running the show where there is no face to invest in. Now, its just faction drama in the Bloodlines case, but that appears to be over. So, now we will head into the Rumble with nothing happening which fine, no one watches around December anyway.

So for Mania, we are going with Rock has to show up right???? Like he was supposed to at last Mania or even the Survivor Series that was dedicated to him. Nope. I am not saying it won't happen, but this Rock will show up fan theory hasn't panned out in the last five years, I am not sure it will now. Even if he does, he is losing to Roman, so we go back to Bloodline being dominate again for a few months until someone gets hurt or they do something with Sammi, who is going to beat Roman, stop it. It could be Cody, fits into the Horsemen/Rhoades. He will be over when he comes back. But will he win at WM 39 in Hollywood, not sure. Then there is the basic bitch of having Brock win it and do Brock/Roman for the 1000 time. Where Roman will win again. They have done a piss poor job of making faces or have made business decisions that the face can't win even though they should see Drew at Clash at the Castle or Edge or Bryan in the Triple Threat Main Event. Instead, they have gone ALL IN on the Bloodline story where it has been interesting, it hasn't done anything. A Youtuber is the only one to move the needle. WWE is in this weird holding pattern where nothing can really move. Bayley has been a jobber since she returned. The Judgement Day storyline is still going on, Austin Theory is still a thing for some reason, Seth is being Seth. Rousey is here and no one wants that, but no one has the ability to beat her clean. This has been the WWE since Summerslam and if not longer and that is not changing any time soon.

lol

[BGMaverick]

Thanks for writing my review for me.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to mth again.

[Tyson]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to mth again.

mth will go down as one of the true legends here at forums.rajah.com. For real.

[NeseToTheFace]

Lol Bloodline wins. The WWE has no real hero and that is the massive problem. Even when the 4 Horsemen were running around there was Dusty, Sting and God help us Luger. Same thing with the NWO, there was Piper, Sting and God help us Luger. Even Vince knew this and had Austin, Taker and Mankind eventually as the heroes during his heel run. The point of having massive faction is having a hero or heroes defy the odds to beat them. At this point, this is Evolution in 2003 which sucked. The fans have been beatdown by this decade Reigns experiment, they have just accepted and now the only interesting part for the men's side of the roster. If you don't have that, you have Judgement Day doing the same thing on Raw. WWE has now gone all into factions running the show where there is no face to invest in. Now, its just faction drama in the Bloodlines case, but that appears to be over. So, now we will head into the Rumble with nothing happening which fine, no one watches around December anyway.

So for Mania, we are going with Rock has to show up right???? Like he was supposed to at last Mania or even the Survivor Series that was dedicated to him. Nope. I am not saying it won't happen, but this Rock will show up fan theory hasn't panned out in the last five years, I am not sure it will now. Even if he does, he is losing to Roman, so we go back to Bloodline being dominate again for a few months until someone gets hurt or they do something with Sammi, who is going to beat Roman, stop it. It could be Cody, fits into the Horsemen/Rhoades. He will be over when he comes back. But will he win at WM 39 in Hollywood, not sure. Then there is the basic bitch of having Brock win it and do Brock/Roman for the 1000 time. Where Roman will win again. They have done a piss poor job of making faces or have made business decisions that the face can't win even though they should see Drew at Clash at the Castle or Edge or Bryan in the Triple Threat Main Event. Instead, they have gone ALL IN on the Bloodline story where it has been interesting, it hasn't done anything. A Youtuber is the only one to move the needle. WWE is in this weird holding pattern where nothing can really move. Bayley has been a jobber since she returned. The Judgement Day storyline is still going on, Austin Theory is still a thing for some reason, Seth is being Seth. Rousey is here and no one wants that, but no one has the ability to beat her clean. This has been the WWE since Summerslam and if not longer and that is not changing any time soon.

If you watched the show, then I respect your ability to watch something, hate it, and come back and watch it again and hate the next one. I eagerly await the arrival of the 2023 Royal Rumble and your hate watch and following review of the show when Reigns is victorious again. Your different opinion from the majority of posters ITT is a refreshing take, and always good to see not everyone agrees 100%. Keep up the good work and I anticipate another strong review come Rumble time.

[lotjx]

The Bloodline are heels, stop pretending they are not. The shades are grey don't work with them. They use the number advantage almost all the time and cheat. They are not Austin in the 90s or 80 percent of the AEW roster. They are the bad guys. If they are not why are all the faces teaming up to stop them? I watch but the reality is the main event scene has not mattered in years with this company. I also am tired of everyone fantasying booking Sammi and Owen teaming up. There is zero point at this time. If Sammy's objective is to defeat the Bloodline from the inside, last night was the perfect night to do it. Any other time will make no sense.

[Tyson]

I don’t think Sami has ever had the intention of defeating The Bloodline.

His conspiracy theory character was all about how he is being constantly screwed over. The opportunist in him looked at the rise of Roman Reigns’ Bloodline and saw a massive chance to elevate his career; as of last night, he finally succeeded in being accepted as an outsider into that prestigious wrestling family.

I feel like we’ll have a solid couple of months of Sami Uso, before he accidentally costs The Usos (or even Roman?) their championship, leading to Zayn getting the boot from the crew.

Do I think Sami will end Roman’s epic reign? No. Will he be used as a vehicle to put over Solo as a megaheel in the singles division? That seems more likely.

[lotjx]

Also, no blood at WARGAMES??? What the fuck are we doing here?

[Donald]

Seems like WWE isn't for you. Maybe try AEW or Impact?

[mth]

Even with all the Wargames whatnot, I think my favorite spot of the night was Rollins' super stomp to Lashley off Theory's back, and that the US Title triple threat was MOTN.

[VHS]

Ronda/Shotzi was terrible. Shotzi deserved an opponent that could make her look good and Ronda just wasn't it. I really don't know what else to say about Ronda at this point, the winds have been taken out of my sails w/ her. She needs to do more wrestling and stop trying to just be her MMA submission self because golly her work lately has been lacking. Does she train at all? Because everything she did was sloppy as frick, even her several stomps showed just how inexperienced she is.

[lotjx]

I get why they see money in Rousey, but we keep overlooking her last two MMA matches where KOS and one where it barely made it two minutes. She is diminishing returns. Shotzi really is a good wrestler, but it feels like she is this year's Botchamania MVP. The Raw side for the money is completely overloaded while Smackdown has maybe Charlotte coming back..maybe. I also think Rosey is not going to lose to Mania either and I am not sure it will be clean either, because her losing clean is not a thing especially in her mind.

[VHS]

I get why they see money in Rousey, but we keep overlooking her last two MMA matches where KOS and one where it barely made it two minutes. She is diminishing returns. Shotzi really is a good wrestler, but it feels like she is this year's Botchamania MVP. The Raw side for the money is completely overloaded while Smackdown has maybe Charlotte coming back..maybe. I also think Rosey is not going to lose to Mania either and I am not sure it will be clean either, because her losing clean is not a thing especially in her mind.

How do you know the things in her mind?

[virms]

Let's be honest here. I like shotzi but she's botchy as fuck. Shotzi been doing this consistently for 8 years now. She should be able to carry a match herself.

[lotjx]

[QUOTE=VHS;8312298]How do you know the things in her mind?[/QUOTE

I have glanced her twitter feed.

[Donald]

Maybe cutting the negative cesspool that is Twitter out of your life, you'll enjoy WWE more.

[NeseToTheFace]

Let's be honest here. I like shotzi but she's botchy as fuck. Shotzi been doing this consistently for 8 years now. She should be able to carry a match herself.

Yeah a handful of her matches I've seen there is always at least one fuck-up. I want to say one time she was walking the ropes and tumbled off.

While she has a character that works with the arena crowd the in-ring work leaves a lot to be desired. I'd rather her be boring and do the simple stuff well rather than high-risk shit and can't handle it.

[lotjx]

Maybe cutting the negative cesspool that is Twitter out of your life, you'll enjoy WWE more.

How about you stop posting after me in every thread.

[Donald]

Maybe therapy would help you.

[Nash Diesel]

Great ppv. War Games matches were very solid. Styles/Balor was great. Triple Threat was fire. Rousey/Shotzi was lackluster but while people are pointing fingers at Ronda...show me a good Shotzi match. She goes through tables and chairs just fine, I like that she's kind of a Foley/Tommy Dreamer type wrestler.

Also, no blood at WARGAMES??? What the fuck are we doing here?

There hasn't been blood at War Games in like 30 years. WCW after like 1992 had barely any blood. I think they started to relax that mindstate around 1999-2000 but by then War Games was done I think.

[VHS]

Nobody’s gonna call Shotzi the Eddie Guerrero of the womens division, but you can’t say it was Shotzi’s fault for all the boring and sloppy holds Ronda did or the god awful ring apron ddt that Ronda forgot to bump on or those kicks Ronda have Shotzi that looked like she was trying to miss on purpose.

[Nash Diesel]

Nobody’s gonna call Shotzi the Eddie Guerrero of the womens division, but you can’t say it was Shotzi’s fault for all the boring and sloppy holds Ronda did or the god awful ring apron ddt that Ronda forgot to bump on or those kicks Ronda have Shotzi that looked like she was trying to miss on purpose.

I didn't say it was Shotzi's fault. My point is that Shotzi has never had a good match. Ronda has. Too many people on this planet trying to downplay Ronda's drawing/wrestling ability and I'm over here like, but look who she's working against? Liv Morgan, Shotzi, what the hell? Why? LOL. Ronda isn't Eddie Guerrero either which is why these matches with Liv and Shotzi haven't been that great. But again, what good match is Shotzi having? This match was destined to be bad. We just can't dwell on it too long.

[NeseToTheFace]

Some just don't work well together. I think Shotzi has value, but her style of work can at times be like watching a car crash. She's not like sticking Eva Marie in a match.

[Nash Diesel]

Some just don't work well together. I think Shotzi has value, but her style of work can at times be like watching a car crash. She's not like sticking Eva Marie in a match.

Shotzi has a cool look, interesting entrance, but after that it's pretty weak. And that's fine. Go back and watch 1998, you're not going to find a bunch of Kurt Angle's drawing 10 million people a week to Raw.

[Donald]

I'm not allowed to post after anyone in any thread, so I apologize but I just wanted to say Shotzi is one of my favorite performers in WWE today.

[Nash Diesel]

lol.

I like Shotzi but she's like most women in WWE-directionless and/or cast in the wrong role. And give the girl her last name back.

[VHS]

I didn't say it was Shotzi's fault. My point is that Shotzi has never had a good match. Ronda has. Too many people on this planet trying to downplay Ronda's drawing/wrestling ability and I'm over here like, but look who she's working against? Liv Morgan, Shotzi, what the hell? Why? LOL. Ronda isn't Eddie Guerrero either which is why these matches with Liv and Shotzi haven't been that great. But again, what good match is Shotzi having? This match was destined to be bad. We just can't dwell on it too long.

No worries, wasn't saying you did. I love Shotzi, and it does sway me a little since she's from Hoodslam here in Oakland, but her progression and drive since her early days are undeniable. Her style isn't for everyone, but I'd call it a stretch to say she's never had a good match. We're not talking about Nia Jax here lol. Joking. Ronda's had the luxury of working with the best performers in professional wrestling and Shotzi is still pretty new in the grand scheme of things. She's still growing.

The reason why it's being dwelled on not just by me but by other folks outside this forum is because Ronda just ain't getting it. I don't know if it's the lack of preparation or her not training enough to show any progression... but her work since returning has been abysmal. Ronda needs an opponent that can actually carry a match, which is where the contrast w/ Shotzi comes in. Shotzi may not be able to carry a match, but she can provide support. Ronda apparently in this current state can do neither.

It would have behooved her to learn her ABC's down in NXT before the 2.0 shitfest, but eh. We can't change the past. I used to have faith in Ronda being a new beacon of light for the womens division, but now I wouldn't be surprised if she's gone again within the next year.

[Donald]

It's a work in progress, but I think Triple H is trying to give everyone a direction. When you have the same four or five women dominating the division for the past 5 years, it's gonna be tough.

[3puppies]

I'm not allowed to post after anyone in any thread, so I apologize but I just wanted to say Shotzi is one of my favorite performers in WWE today.

I never followed Shotzi before she got to the main roster, so my opinion of her is fairly limited. I will choose to remain optimistic for her, but her match with Ronda didn't raise my thoughts on both of them. This felt like a missed opportunity for both of them.

Donald, I seem to recall you were also fond of Dana Brooke. What are your thoughts on Shotzi over Dana?

[Donald]

I'm gonna be honest, I haven't seen Dana Brooke on TV in what feels like forever. I don't normally watch RAW or Smackdown, so I'm basing this off of PLE. I assume it was probably the Royal Rumble she was last seen on. But I've seen Shotzi more frequently this year.

I probably like them the same. Two women who deserve more than what they have.

[VHS]

It's a work in progress, but I think Triple H is trying to give everyone a direction. When you have the same four or five women dominating the division for the past 5 years, it's gonna be tough.

Pretty spot on. I loved Charlotte, but even I was getting a little tired of her always been in the top fray. Her and Sasha, mainly. Haven't tired of Becky, Bayley's heel turn revitalized her, Bianca's doing fine, and Rhia's starting to kick it into high gear lately.

[Nash Diesel]

No worries, wasn't saying you did. I love Shotzi, and it does sway me a little since she's from Hoodslam here in Oakland, but her progression and drive since her early days are undeniable. Her style isn't for everyone, but I'd call it a stretch to say she's never had a good match. We're not talking about Nia Jax here lol. Joking. Ronda's had the luxury of working with the best performers in professional wrestling and Shotzi is still pretty new in the grand scheme of things. She's still growing.

The reason why it's being dwelled on not just by me but by other folks outside this forum is because Ronda just ain't getting it. I don't know if it's the lack of preparation or her not training enough to show any progression... but her work since returning has been abysmal. Ronda needs an opponent that can actually carry a match, which is where the contrast w/ Shotzi comes in. Shotzi may not be able to carry a match, but she can provide support. Ronda apparently in this current state can do neither.

It would have behooved her to learn her ABC's down in NXT before the 2.0 shitfest, but eh. We can't change the past. I used to have faith in Ronda being a new beacon of light for the womens division, but now I wouldn't be surprised if she's gone again within the next year.

I thought Ronda did a great job working with many talents like Charlotte, Sasha, Becky, Natalya, but then you put her with people who can't carry a match i.e. Shotzi and Liv, and you get what you get. I'm sorry I just haven't ever seen Shotzi deliver a good performance. Whether that's in NXT or the main roster. I want her to succeed but as it was pointed out, she's been in the game almost 10 years, Ronda's been in it for what, 2 total? She's already better than most women in the business.

People like Shotzi and Liv can't get over without doing wild shit. Liv wins the belt in a ladder match, we cheer. Boo's the rest of the time until she starts putting people through tables. I'm just saying, Shotzi's no different. She's been in the game for a lot longer than Ronda and she can barely do an armdrag. I give Ronda a little leeway, she's not as experienced but the fact she's legit and her moves look brutal, her selling looks realistic and not goofy-to me. Ken Shamrock wasn't the smoothest guy in the ring or on the mic but we looked the other way because we know in a real fight, that dude would've handled everyone.

But anyone expecting Ronda to carry Shotzi or vice versa, they're delusional.

It's a work in progress, but I think Triple H is trying to give everyone a direction. When you have the same four or five women dominating the division for the past 5 years, it's gonna be tough.

I don't think there's any weight to this argument. People usually lean on the 4 Horsewomen, but then forget about Asuka, Alexa Bliss, Rhea Ripley, Carmella, I mean for fuck's sake the last year+ has been the Bianca Belair show. You have Ronda, Shayna, Nia Jax, Kairi Sane, it hasn't just been 4-5 women especially when the 4 Horsewomen for example have barely been on tv in the last 2 years. I mean Bayley was just on the shelf for a year. I also think that if you're over you should get the top spot so it's not the WWE' fault that Dana Brooke sucks lol.

[Donald]

Well, Bianca is one of the four or five women. The other's I'd put Charlotte, Ronda and Becky.

Carmella is someone they just use for a mini feud, Rhea Ripley has only recently found her footing. Shayna Baszler was neutered within a couple of months of debuting on the main roster, though it looks like they are starting to build her back up to be a monster. Alexa Bliss is always just a generic women's wrestler, she has fallen so far from her excellent work a few years ago. Hasn't really recovered from the Wyatt stuff.

Really they do give the women opportunities but in the end it always reverts back to the same old women. Like at Survivor Series, they could have easily let Mia Yim, Alexa Bliss, or Asuka make the pin but they went with the same old Becky Lynch.

[casselmm47]

Seems like they tried to give Shotzi the same 'plucky underdog' treatment in the space of a few weeks that Liv had been slowly building for months and it just didn't play as well. Shotzi comes out of nowhere and gets a rando shot thanks to a fluke 6 pack challenge win, but aside form coming out in a tank-looking doohickey, I couldn't tell you much about her main-roster gimmick, motivation, notable feuds or whatever. She seems to be the go-to when you need a random tag-team partner or someone to occupy a slot in a gauntlet match, but unless I missed a bunch of backstage interview character development somewhere, I don't care about her. At least, not enough to get any type of shine over Rhonda.

[Nash Diesel]

Seems like they tried to give Shotzi the same 'plucky underdog' treatment in the space of a few weeks that Liv had been slowly building for months and it just didn't play as well. Shotzi comes out of nowhere and gets a rando shot thanks to a fluke 6 pack challenge win, but aside form coming out in a tank-looking doohickey, I couldn't tell you much about her main-roster gimmick, motivation, notable feuds or whatever. She seems to be the go-to when you need a random tag-team partner or someone to occupy a slot in a gauntlet match, but unless I missed a bunch of backstage interview character development somewhere, I don't care about her. At least, not enough to get any type of shine over Rhonda.

I was thinking that same thing when I was watching the last couple promos Shotzi did leading up to this match. It was like you could close your eyes and it was the Liv Morgan promos all over again. It worked somewhat for Liv, she was an actual underdog who had failed repeatedly. It was just that when she finally won, all her fanboys turned on her for actually getting the job done!

Shotzi seems like someone who should have been built up as a lunatic. Show us what she did in NXT or that other promotion she was in where she did the dive into the chairs. But it all feels like a remake of Ronda v. Liv. I appreciate how the WWE are willing to test the waters with Shotzi but making her the "Oh no I don't have a chance but I'll try my best!" type did her no favors. She looks like a badass, she can do crazy shit, why are we giving her this corny whitemeat babyface approach?

[Nash Diesel]

Well, Bianca is one of the four or five women. The other's I'd put Charlotte, Ronda and Becky.

Carmella is someone they just use for a mini feud, Rhea Ripley has only recently found her footing. Shayna Baszler was neutered within a couple of months of debuting on the main roster, though it looks like they are starting to build her back up to be a monster. Alexa Bliss is always just a generic women's wrestler, she has fallen so far from her excellent work a few years ago. Hasn't really recovered from the Wyatt stuff.

Really they do give the women opportunities but in the end it always reverts back to the same old women. Like at Survivor Series, they could have easily let Mia Yim, Alexa Bliss, or Asuka make the pin but they went with the same old Becky Lynch.

It's weird you would put Bianca in there when talking about the last 5 years. Bianca has had a pretty slow burn to the top, I mean she was called up and didn't do jack shit for 6-7 months.

I do think there are times where it feels like someone isn't getting over so they slide in someone better and more over to help salvage the situation. It's already a pain in the ass to get the fans supporting women's wrestling especially in the big 2 American promotions. Give me Becky Lynch winning War Games over Mia Yim any day of the week. Hotshotting does these women zero favors, look at Shotzi.

A lot of the top tier women haven't been on tv much over the last 2 years either. Injuries, covid, contract issues, walking out, pregnancy. I mean Shayna was on Raw and Smackdown practically every week in 2020 with Nia Jax. Was she the man? Nope. She's north of 40, can't talk, and was overpushed in NXT.

[NeseToTheFace]

Rewatching the main event, it felt like you could have paired up any other four guys with Owens and it really all came down to if Sami would betray the Bloodline or side with them. Each guy still played a part but this was my big takeaway. You had the Brutes and the Usos, and to a lesser extent Drew and Solo paired up.

[Donald]

WarGames does nothing for me. I'd much prefer the 4 on 4 or 5 on 5 elimination matches. Have a good 4 or 5 elimination style matches with a championship match.

Bloodline vs. Brawling Brutes and Mcintyre
Lynch/Yim/Bliss/Asuka/Belair vs. Damage Ctrl/Ripley/Cross
AJ/Good Brothers/someone else vs. Judgment Day
Hit Row/New Day vs. Viking Raiders/Fantasma
Rollins and others vs. Lashley/Theory and others.

Reigns vs Owens as the main event

I don't know I just miss those matches. Move WarGames to December.

[Nash Diesel]

Love War Games but prefer the traditional Survivor Series. I don't understand how Survivor Series wound up the bastard child of the 4 ppvs where they stopped booking it strong. I remember not really being a fan of 1998, the tournament. But it was still that same concept of "survival" When they kind of ditched it in favor of the divas v. divas and raw v. smackdown matches is when I started to realize there was no more 1989 style format.

I wonder if it became a situation where Vince and co were like naw, too many paydays we need to keep these millions for the next non-wrestling venture the wrestlers pay for! I was watching 2010 and they start out with Daniel Bryan v. Ted Dibase Jr for the US title....The fans didn't care one bit and neither did I lol

[Murphy]

A little odd to me that HHH has gotten rid of the Hell in a Cell, TLC etc as PLEs, I assume because it doesn't work as well having a Hell in a Cell match just because it's October or whenever. But then add this, which is just a War Games match just for the hell of it.

Match of the night was the triple threat. Good stuff that one.

Ronda bores me to tears. But at least she's a heel now, I suppose.

[Donald]

If it leads us to Ronda vs. Shayna, I'm all for it.

[Nash Diesel]

A little odd to me that HHH has gotten rid of the Hell in a Cell, TLC etc as PLEs, I assume because it doesn't work as well having a Hell in a Cell match just because it's October or whenever. But then add this, which is just a War Games match just for the hell of it.

Match of the night was the triple threat. Good stuff that one.

Ronda bores me to tears. But at least she's a heel now, I suppose.

Just for the hell of it?

Survivor Series was created in response to War Games. This gimmick match fits perfectly with the premise of the ppv.

[Donald]

Can't wait for Triple H to buy Impact and then use the reverse Battle Royal concept on the Royal Rumble PPV.

[Nash Diesel]

Can't wait for Triple H to buy Impact and then use the reverse Battle Royal concept on the Royal Rumble PPV.

So dumb.

"And for my next trick..."

[Murphy]

Just for the hell of it?

Survivor Series was created in response to War Games. This gimmick match fits perfectly with the premise of the ppv.

Ok, so it has a historical significance, but no storylines here warranted such a brutal match, was my point. But then this was also the case back in the NWA/WCW days, generally speaking.

I prefer matches of this nature to take place when feuds warrant it, rather than just because it's November. That's all.

[Nash Diesel]

Ok, so it has a historical significance, but no storylines here warranted such a brutal match, was my point. But then this was also the case back in the NWA/WCW days, generally speaking.

I prefer matches of this nature to take place when feuds warrant it, rather than just because it's November. That's all.

There was a storyline that warranted it. All the people who have been fighting the Bloodline for awhile banded together. It wasn't happening just because it was November lol. Like I said, Survivor Series was created in response to the War Games gimmick.

Serious question but have you been watching WWE at all in the last 3-5 months? If you haven't I can understand why you think there was no storyline and this was just done because it's November...which is hilarious because War Games wasn't some exclusive November event either. For example, WrestleWar 1991 happened in February and featured a War Games match.

[Murphy]

There was a storyline that warranted it. All the people who have been fighting the Bloodline for awhile banded together. It wasn't happening just because it was November lol. Like I said, Survivor Series was created in response to the War Games gimmick.

Serious question but have you been watching WWE at all in the last 3-5 months? If you haven't I can understand why you think there was no storyline and this was just done because it's November...which is hilarious because War Games wasn't some exclusive November event either. For example, WrestleWar 1991 happened in February and featured a War Games match.

I was actually thinking more about the women's war games match, to be honest.

Been watching more WWE in the last few months than I have for years. With all the football, I have no idea how I've managed that.

As to WCW, I was definitely talking about the latter years, when Fall Brawl was every September.

[Nash Diesel]

I was actually thinking more about the women's war games match, to be honest.

Been watching more WWE in the last few months than I have for years. With all the football, I have no idea how I've managed that.

As to WCW, I was definitely talking about the latter years, when Fall Brawl was every September.

There were several stories going on with the women's match. You had the women who represented the OC and JD. You had the long running feud with Damage Ctrl and the other 4 women including Becky. So if you've been watching the product, should I really have to break this down?

Yeah I mean it's hard to tell what you're talking about when you make these generalized statements. I mean, what does November have to do with War Games in the latter years if it was done in September?

[MTR]

The women's match had some story to it. Damage Control has been feuding with Bianca, Bliss, and Auska. Bayley has been trying to take Bianca's title and the tag titles did switch hands a couple times. So they has been building up. Rhea and Yim are part of the Judgement Day/OC feud. Then throw in Nikki Cross being back to being herself and a returning Lynch and there was a story there. Not as good as the story for the men but story none the less.

I think this match will not be tied to Survivor Series all the time but we will continue to see it as stories call for it.

[Nash Diesel]

I mean it makes sense for it to be tied to Survivor Series since Vince stole the War Games idea and morphed it into the 10 man elimination match.

[MTR]

It does and it may be there for a while but HHH said it could be something that moves around like Hell in a Cell which is no longer going to be its own PPV.

[Nash Diesel]

As long as we don't get 4-5 a year I'm straight. I didn't mind ppvs having a gimmick match like MITB being at Mania. I didn't like ppvs based around the gimmick match though as it seemed to be too forced. You'd have 2 guys feuding for a month and the next ppv they're in HIAC. Why? Who knows. Like, why was Seth v. The Fiend in the Cell. Made no sense.

[MTR]

I don't mind MITB having its own show. But I would be fine moving it back to Mania. But yeah overall I am not the biggest fan of the gimmick matches like HIAC being the focus of a PPV.

Elimination Chamber seems to work because how else do you set up a match like that beyond it just being the planned title defense or way of determining a number one contender after the Rumble. But yeah even then it is forced but I guess I am kind of used to it.

[Murphy]

As long as we don't get 4-5 a year I'm straight. I didn't mind ppvs having a gimmick match like MITB being at Mania. I didn't like ppvs based around the gimmick match though as it seemed to be too forced. You'd have 2 guys feuding for a month and the next ppv they're in HIAC. Why? Who knows. Like, why was Seth v. The Fiend in the Cell. Made no sense.

Ha, this was essentially what I was saying yesterday with the war games match. It felt a little forced. Which it always will be when you have a gimmick PPV on the regular schedule. The war games announcement was made way before it played out on TV.

Not as blatant as the Seth/Fiend example you raised, but the same point.

The fact there was a men's and a women's war games match on the same show, is always going to make it tricky for it to come off as organic. But it is what it is.

[Nash Diesel]

Ha, this was essentially what I was saying yesterday with the war games match. It felt a little forced. Which it always will be when you have a gimmick PPV on the regular schedule. The war games announcement was made way before it played out on TV.

Not as blatant as the Seth/Fiend example you raised, but the same point.

The fact there was a men's and a women's war games match on the same show, is always going to make it tricky for it to come off as organic. But it is what it is.

Not all War Games matches were "organic" Some were pieced together without any deep storylines. I thought there was more history and depth to the 2 recent War Games than most of the 90's War Games matches. What made sense NOW is all the stables and interference and bullshit cheating from the heels. This restricted a lot of that. That's why I questioned whether or not you've been watching the product since say Summerslam, even earlier for some rivalries where people are now teaming up with former enemies. There was a ton of storyline going into War Games and several possibilities for who would be in there. JD v. The OC could've been another possibility. I feel you on how it could feel random but this year it was far from it.