Marvel Television - currently: "Ms. Marvel"

[Pablo Diablo]

I remember Zemo so poorly that

When they went to that safehouse where the guy kept mentioning him and his wife preparing things, I thought...is this Zemo in disguise?

[BGMaverick]

I enjoyed this episode.

It was important to add some substance to who John Walker is after the reveal in E1. When you've got these episodes and the first one went out of its way to provide context to your main characters, you've got to do that when the next level of characters so it's good that they did that with Walker. He certainly seems like he's got the CVV to be worthy and he's even got his right-hand man like Rogers did in Battlestar, but he's not exactly keen on being as buddy buddy with Falcon and Winter Soldier as Rogers was. Walker and Barnes label themselves as free agents so they're able to work more fast and loose while Walker wants them to work with (probably for) him. Walker certainly has a way with his closing dialogue lol, making it very confrontational. There's definitely a fine line they're working here with Walker and you saw a wildly juxtapositional stance of his character from the beginning of the episode to the finish. He's either a good guy caught in a bad situation or it is the opposite.

Again, I really like the fact they kept Wilson and Barnes apart from each other in the first episode. It was set up to be an impactful moment and based on the fallout from the first episode, it created that moment. They were apart for months but they never missed a beat in their bickering. Then it went up a notch with Barnes' therapist working with both of them, it's pleasantly obvious this is set up to be like Marvel's version of a buddy cop show. I do like how Barnes revealed why he was so upset with the decision Wilson made about giving up the shield.

The first action scene for the episode was very cool and choreographed very well. They wove the action, comedy, and apprehension from Wilson and Barnes towards the new Captain America well.

The Flag Smashers element is getting fleshed out a bit more and it is interesting while still being explained. They're seen as threats to the heroes and seen as heroes (Robin Hoods) to the people they're helping. Then you've got a Power Broker who is supplying them, with the Power Broker being unaware that they're taking those supplies and is now trying to hunt them down. Barnes feels Zemo (shoutout Civil War) is the only option who can help explain what's going in regards to the super soldier serum. This is one of many examples of how they're willing give you a little sample but then leave it open to ask more questions. Either way, having The Flag Smashers as "the villains" works in a compelling way because what they're pursuing makes sense in terms of their motivations. The best baddies are ones that have an agenda that have elements of truth to it but are questionable.

I really like how this show is tapping into systemic racism and showing while we've come far in the world, we're still dragging our knuckles in a lot of ways. From Wilson and his sister trying to get a loan in the first episode and then Isaiah Bradley being arrested and having his legacy wiped away then the cops pulling up, this is heavy stuff.

So we're 1/3 of the way through the series now. We still have some characters left to be revealed in the series (like Sharon Carter) and more answers. One of the big lingering questions is we've heard it multiple times but we haven't delved into the exact reasoning as to why Wilson didn't take the shield and become Captain America. There's certainly a lot of ways that can go but it's quite possible he doesn't represent a country that doesn't represent him...which would be extremely palpable and compelling. That would then create a hopeful optimism as to how he makes amends to that struggle. This does also raise a question to if this will be stand-alone or if could bubble up to a feature film or if it continues as TV series. This feels like there's plenty of layers to explore going forward so it's a matter of how they want to tackle it.

[Nash Diesel]

I enjoyed this episode.

It was important to add some substance to who John Walker is after the reveal in E1. When you've got these episodes and the first one went out of its way to provide context to your main characters, you've got to do that when the next level of characters so it's good that they did that with Walker. He certainly seems like he's got the CVV to be worthy and he's even got his right-hand man like Rogers did in Battlestar, but he's not exactly keen on being as buddy buddy with Falcon and Winter Soldier as Rogers was. Walker and Barnes label themselves as free agents so they're able to work more fast and loose while Walker wants them to work with (probably for) him. Walker certainly has a way with his closing dialogue lol, making it very confrontational. There's definitely a fine line they're working here with Walker and you saw a wildly juxtapositional stance of his character from the beginning of the episode to the finish. He's either a good guy caught in a bad situation or it is the opposite.

Again, I really like the fact they kept Wilson and Barnes apart from each other in the first episode. It was set up to be an impactful moment and based on the fallout from the first episode, it created that moment. They were apart for months but they never missed a beat in their bickering. Then it went up a notch with Barnes' therapist working with both of them, it's pleasantly obvious this is set up to be like Marvel's version of a buddy cop show. I do like how Barnes revealed why he was so upset with the decision Wilson made about giving up the shield.

The first action scene for the episode was very cool and choreographed very well. They wove the action, comedy, and apprehension from Wilson and Barnes towards the new Captain America well.

The Flag Smashers element is getting fleshed out a bit more and it is interesting while still being explained. They're seen as threats to the heroes and seen as heroes (Robin Hoods) to the people they're helping. Then you've got a Power Broker who is supplying them, with the Power Broker being unaware that they're taking those supplies and is now trying to hunt them down. Barnes feels Zemo (shoutout Civil War) is the only option who can help explain what's going in regards to the super soldier serum. This is one of many examples of how they're willing give you a little sample but then leave it open to ask more questions. Either way, having The Flag Smashers as "the villains" works in a compelling way because what they're pursuing makes sense in terms of their motivations. The best baddies are ones that have an agenda that have elements of truth to it but are questionable.

I really like how this show is tapping into systemic racism and showing while we've come far in the world, we're still dragging our knuckles in a lot of ways. From Wilson and his sister trying to get a loan in the first episode and then Isaiah Bradley being arrested and having his legacy wiped away then the cops pulling up, this is heavy stuff.

So we're 1/3 of the way through the series now. We still have some characters left to be revealed in the series (like Sharon Carter) and more answers. One of the big lingering questions is we've heard it multiple times but we haven't delved into the exact reasoning as to why Wilson didn't take the shield and become Captain America. There's certainly a lot of ways that can go but it's quite possible he doesn't represent a country that doesn't represent him...which would be extremely palpable and compelling. That would then create a hopeful optimism as to how he makes amends to that struggle. This does also raise a question to if this will be stand-alone or if could bubble up to a feature film or if it continues as TV series. This feels like there's plenty of layers to explore going forward so it's a matter of how they want to tackle it.

Have you watched Black Lightning yet?

That pertains to your comment about the show tapping in to systematic racism and I feel like Black Lightning is not only the best comic book show on CW, but one of the best in general.

[Fro]

Now that was a damn good episode on the level of The Winter Soldier movie

Sharon kicked some serious ass. Zemo was great. I didn’t even mind the absurdity of Bucky choosing to break a mass terrorist out of jail and Falcon (a celebrity) pretending to be another guy.

[Chris]

Episode 3 was the best one yet.

I wasn’t too fussed on the truck fight last episode - thought it was quite choppy. Sharon taking on multiple bounty hunters with guns, knives and pipes was excellent. I really hope she comes back. There seems to be a lot of talk about her being the Power Broker.

Zemo is a great character - nice to see him tagging along with Sam and Bucky rather than immediately betraying them. Those few seconds of him dancing at the club were hilarious. I’m glad they haven’t forgotten T’Chaka’s death and how the Wakandans would hunt him as soon as news of his jail break reached them.

I love how they have the Winter Soldier music in the show. It’s the perfect motif when Bucky was “playing” the Winter Soldier a little too well.

There are ideas and themes which I like, and little call-backs to the films which I enjoy, but the show isn’t holding together well for me. At first I was disappointed there were only 6 episodes but now I’m wondering if there’s enough story to fill them out. This episode felt a bit repetitive with the plane trips and club scenes. Though I liked the dynamic between Sam and Bucky in this episode compared to the last one. Some of the humour last week was hit-and-miss for me.

[Bert]

I watched 2 and 3 back to back and really enjoyed episode 3.

[mth]

Good ep. Nice to see Sharon kicking ass, good action scenes. She's another character I kind of forgot about. Nice to see more of Zemo as, like I said previously, I'd forgotten about him. Dope character reveal at the end.

Have seeing online buzz about Madripoor being a frequent stomping ground for the X-Men and Wolverine in particular as though this might be another hint at the forthcoming arrival of those folks. Given "Pietro" from WandaVision, i wouldn't hold my breath.

[BGMaverick]

Episode 3

As Sharon said: "that was one hell of a reunion."
There were a lot of familiar faces brought back here and it didn't feel like any of them were wasted. I have to imagine most will likely be prominent for finishing this season or they're here to set up future stories.

While it's coming across rather fast in the series, I like the touch that Walker is losing his cool as Captain America. Having to do things the bureaucratic way certainly has him a step behind Walker and Barnes. That was implied that it was going to happen when they talked about how they can work as free agents. Cap certainly seems to be several steps behind though but that may be working accordingly to his plan.

Madripoor was definitely a cool spot and has a lot of implications for the future. It certainly looks visually stimulating at night with all the colors lol. It was a nice touch to bring the Winter Solider theme back wisen Barnes had to do his thing. It was also quite funny how the cover was blown for the guys with the phone call (Wilson is going to have some serious explaining to do there with his sister). The spot where the bounties were placed on them as they were fleeing was a good nod to John Wick and The Mandalorian.

Sharon did seem to do a lot of the damn heavy lifting at the shipyard while the guys were interrogating Nagel lol. Quick backstory as to what she's been doing since we last saw her but that made sense as to why she's been off the radar. Her rush to leave the shipyard does seem a little puzzling in regards to what her actual motivations may be.

The humanizing Karli earlier in the episode seemed to be wiped away rather quickly as she bombed that GRC building full of people as The Flag Smashers were fleeing from another location. Noble acts aren't coming across that way anymore.

They set it up in the previous episode and it played out here where Zemo had Hannibal vibe a bit but not as creepy. The rollout of the "hypothetical" was clever too. Zemo shooting Nagel kept him pretty consistent as a character and you knew that Wilson and Barnes weren't going to be able to trust that he wasn't going to go rogue. With his true allegiance being unknown at the moment, he's going to be a massive wild card here going forward because he's out of a jail, is a baron and doesn't necessarily have a country to preside over.

Barnes walking off at the end probably could have been a good cliffhanger but they brought an even better one with Ayo coming back. It's good to see Wakandans coming back into the mix as they would honestly have a serious problem with Zemo being out on the loose.

Love the callback to Civil War when Barnes had the chance to move the seat up for Walker and he didn't.

Nice nod to see that Steve Rogers' notebook ended up in the hands of Barnes.

They sure like to say 'super soldiers' a lot lol.

[Fro]

Looks awesome.

[Jitters]

He's not my captain!

[Chris]

Felt like a real gear change in episode 4 - lots of stories inter-weaving and a killer ending.

I like how they didn’t have a scene with Walker taking the serum and just revealed it during his fight with Karli’s men.

Even though he hasn’t been in the show that much, they’ve done a decent job in showing how overwhelmed he is by the role of Captain America and how the status has gone to his head. It’s a shame we didn’t get a few more scenes of Battlestar trying to be his conscience and keep him on the straight and narrow. But it’s one of the few aspects of the show where the slow burn and understated style has worked fairly well.

Having one of the Dora Milaje doing Steve’s shield flip was badass.

It was a short scene, but the flashback of Ayo showing Bucky that his conditioning was removed was probably Stan’s best work on the show to date.

Hoping for good things in the final two episodes now that Walker has flipped. I still get the impression that there’s a really good 2 hour TV movie here and that 6 episodes was a mistake. But it’s definitely getting better over time, even if the writing and characterisation are nowhere near the standard set by Wandavision.

[Fro]

I thought episode 4 was great.

I like how there's a lot of nuance to the characters. Walker, for instance, still doesn't seem like a villain to me. He might become one, but when they wanted Sam to have a heart-to-heart with Karli and Walker was objecting, his position was reasonable. She is in fact a terrorist who just killed innocent people. And then at the end when he killed that guy, that guy was a terrorist and Walker's best friend just got killed by them (even if not by that one guy in particular). It wasn't completely villainous to me, even though it's obviously a bad look for Captain America. I predict the next episode might start with him losing his job as Cap because of the bad publicity, but he won't give up the shield and then he'll become a vigilante and maybe an actual villain.

Karli is also nuanced, like she's a terrorist killer but I also kinda like her and support her cause. Zemo too. There's no pure villain here yet, and I'm digging it.

I heard someone write that Sam is boring (Sepinwall I think), and that's fair. They don't give him much good dialogue to work with. Steve Rogers always had fairly cookie-cutter dialogue too but idk maybe it comes off less appealing in Sam who's not a white boy from the 40s but a modern black man. Hopefully Sam gets to shine some more in the final 2 episodes.

The Wakanda crossover parts were pretty great (the intro, and then when they came later to get Zemo, although they failed pretty badly letting him slip out).

[TimeSplitter]

Another solid episode:

1. I heard there was a surprise cameo. If you gave me 30 guesses I may have stumbled on "someone we haven't met in the MCU yet" as the right answer. Julia Louie-Dreyfus is an excellent choice for Madame Hydra. I hope she is associated with the creation of the Thunderbolts.
2. The scenes with Sam's family and the boat were the best part of this show. This show has done a wonderful job with everyday people interacting with Falcon.
3. The fight with Sam/Bucky vs. Walker was awesome. The fight choreography for this show has been some of the best in all the MCU.
4. Glad they had another scene with Sam and Isaiah Bradley. Carl Lumbly steals both of his scenes in this show.
5. Nice to see them acknowledge that Bucky talked to Cap about his plan in Endgame.
6. Pumped as hell for the finale next week.

[Jarrod1983]

I just finished episodes 4 and 5. Really great stuff.

Sam's tough love speech with Bucky about helping the people in the book gave me some My Name Is Earl... vibes. Season 2 will be Bucky crossing people off his karma list.

I've really enjoyed John Walker and his story. Reminds me of a wrestling babyface that gets boo'd and finally snaps and turns heel and will give you something to Boo about. I'm really curious to see where he goes.

I agree with Fro in that he really didn't do anything totally villainous since that guy was a terrorist and was involved in his partner's death.

After they took his benefits away in the hearing it gives him another reason to go out on his own and be Vigilante America.

Cap's shield with the blood on it was pretty dam cool looking.

Really fucking loved it when he said "I am Captain America!". After episode 5 he might be my favorite thing going. Too bad the finale is next week because I want more Walker.

[mth]

Did not expect to see Julia Louis-Dryfus! Took me a second to recognize her. Pretty rad she's in the MCU now, I dig it.

Dig what Jarrod said above about Walker being pushed as the babyface who eventually snaps, that comparison is ace. have been loving his arc/progression and slowly crumbling and cracking being humbled and humiliated and breaking under the weight and becoming delusional/in denial about it. Geeked at him working on his Cap stuff post credits. USmfnAgent, baby.

next week is going to be some crazy shit if he shows up, Falc dons his new gear and becomes Cap of sorts himself, and then all the shit going down with the Flagsmashers and whatnot. It's going to be pretty wild, I suspect.

[Fro]

I don’t know what Sam’s new gear will be because his Falcon wings from earlier in the show were already extremely high powered and high tech. Curious to see what they gave him.

Torres isn’t the most interesting character but he seems like a good guy, and I expect he’ll don the old wings to help out in the finale.

JLD showing up was lovely. No idea who her character is other than a bad bitch.

Sam reminds of of Jon Snow. Jon brooded about being a bastard. Sam broods about being black in America. They both don’t say a lot and reluctantly take their roles as leaders of men. Not a perfect analogy but I got those vibes. The Isiah Bradley scene was definitely a highlight.

[Jarrod1983]

I left the room and my wife shut episode 5 off. I didn't even think about a post credit scene.Glad you mentioned it mth.

I wanted more Walker and that snippet of him working on his stuff was excellent. He's such a great heel because he believes in what he's doing. The Government stripped him of everything and the loss of his friend weighs on him. This is such great stuff. Finale will be epic.

[Nash Diesel]

Digging this show more than I expected, and I already expected I'd love it.

To me it feels like with Sam and the shield, when dude said that no self-respecting black man would want that shield, he's wanting to restore glory in what people wanted it to stand for I guess. He sees how his sons are just in awe of it, and to him he wants it to represent all people not just the implication that it's somehow a negative symbol.

[Jarrod1983]

Just found out that Walker is Kurt Russell's baby boy! Think I like him even more knowing he's the seed of Snake Plissken. I can see it in his face knowing this now. Just a mind melter, I hadn't really seen him in anything else so had no idea Captain Ron's boy was even in acting.

[BigAl]

Just found out that Walker is Kurt Russell's baby boy! Think I like him even more knowing he's the seed of Snake Plissken. I can see it in his face knowing this now. Just a mind melter, I hadn't really seen him in anything else so had no idea Captain Ron's boy was even in acting.

I just keep seeing him as Zeke from 22 Jump Street haha.

[BGMaverick]

Episode 4

The opening scene with the flashback in Wakanda to show that Barnes was 'healed' from his Winter Soldier days was nice to see. We obviously knew that but getting to see that play out is exposition that helps round out the character. It also creates a link as to why Ayo is of more importance than we already knew (or didn't know). Eight hours seems like an arbitrary timeline but the reprieve by her conveniently fit the arc of the episode haha. Pretty cool reveal to see Barnes' arm detach and the shock surrounding that.

Wilson trying to talk down Karli was a good approach in multiple ways. This played into his previous role before he became an Avenger as a counselor. It also showed that he is sincere and tries to look for the best in people. She's not an outright villain in the proper sense but she certainly can have her motivations flip that way if the situations call for it. Before Walker came in as he was talking to her, it did kind of feel like Wilson was on the path to making some headway with her. She revealed she was trying to recruit him but he certainly made more progress in reasoning with her compared to anyone else.

Zemo continues to be a really nice monkey wrench throughout the series. His ability to morph his intentions based on the people he's around really allows him to shine in most of the scenes he is in. I'm surprised somewhat they continued to play the notion that he really hates the serum and what it can create when he saw all of them exposed. I think that works though because it keeps him different from most of the people in play in this series. His ability to subtly disappear amongst the chaos is kind of silly though lol.

The episode clearly wanted to build a payoff to Walker's angst that's been bubbling up. Going back to the first time we saw him, you kind of felt okay seeing it play out with him as the new Captain America. Ever since then, he's hit roadblocks and disrespect. He eventually snapped and was on the brink of doing so, even before he took the serum. Was he going to snap eventually or did circumstances lead to it? It's probably both but I think it's more of the former. The big point to me thinking that is the conversation Zemo, Barnes, and Wilson had where they were talking about the serum and how Rogers was basically the only one who didn't become consumed by angst and used the power truly for good. Sure, we didn't have more of body of work with Rogers before he given the serum but he was pretty much showing his purity before he did. Walker, and his 5 o'clock shadow, was breaking. Walker kept showing signs of desperation throughout the episode and the series to this point. He was pushed to his breaking point when Hoskins was killed, but the writing was on the wall. Rogers had his moment in Civil War where he was thrust into the heat of the moment and could have killed (Tony Stark) and he didn't. Walker had his moment and we saw what happened. It's more impactful because Hoskins literally said "you consistently make the right decisions in the heat of battle" during this episode.

All of the imagery in regards to Walker as he approached the final fight was right on par with what you'd expect from a storytelling perspective to show he's losing it: the distorted glass, picking up a pistol and putting that with his shield, the leaking of blood under his helmet, the blood on the shield. It was also more impactful that he killed Nico, who revealed earlier in the episode that he used to like Captain America when he was a kid.

The earlier episodes of this series discussed the idea of race and how things haven't advanced in a positive direction there and now it's talking about how a hero in today's age isn't exactly heroic. Obviously the first subject is the more interesting one to navigate within the means of a show but the second one is compelling in less important sense.

[BGMaverick]

Episode 5

Nice to see that this not being a movie, they didn't beat around the bush and went right into the fallout and thus a big fight between Walker and Wilson/Barnes. It was pretty damn physical and Walker had no qualms digging further into the abyss when it came to finding ways to try to finish this. I'm a little surprised that they went the route of having the government discharge Walker as that would have played into the racial component that was introduced earlier in the season and brought back up in this episode. I could have seen them looking to find ways to protect him and cover for the situation, thus creating a double standard. I guess you could create a sense of sympathy for Walker by saying they made him into this person. That's a flimsy case but it could be made.

The casting of Val feels very inspired. There was some ambiguity here (shocker, I know as most of these characters operate heavily in terms of work in shades of grey) in terms of her allegiance/motivation. She certainly didn't seem that concerned to see that Walker had killed Nico so that kind of suggests that she's a problem. Not a problem in the form of The Power Broker but a problem, nonetheless.

I guess it was a little surprising but not so surprising that Barnes found Zemo so quickly. It does make sense that he would be in Sokovia. I doubt Zemo is going to be totally on board with the idea of being on The Raft but it's the situation he has to deal with now. I'm a little surprised they didn't just take him to Wakanda.

I'm glad to see that Wilson went back to reconnect with Isiah Bradley. The first meeting didn't go so well and left a bitter taste in everyone's mouth. What Bradley outlined in terms of his story is another example of why I'm surprised they did what they did with discharging Walker. Bradley essentially did what Steve Rogers did in the first Captain America movie and he was eventually seen as a war hero for it but Bradley was exiled. “They will never let a Black man be Captain America. And even if they did, no self-respecting Black man would ever want to be.” That's a hell of a line by Bradley and it kind of goes along the lines of what Sarah said in the previous episode: “My world doesn’t matter to America, so why should I care about its mascot?” This interaction really hammered home the point that Wilson really is motivated by hope and seeing the best in people or situations. Despite hearing what he heard, Wilson still believed things could change and that he could help fix things.

It seems like Wilson could have enlisted the town to help with the boat earlier in the season but I guess the devastation he felt after meeting Bradley kind of set him off to ask for help. The time they took to show everything here definitely is allowed to breathe and probably wouldn't have gotten that treatment in a movie setting. It was pretty funny to see Barnes pull his charm out on Sarah and it bothering Wilson lol. The 'boomerang talk' between Wilson and Barnes was really solid. It, along with the whole fixing the boat stuff, was a convenient set of circumstances to allow the two key pieces of this story to bury the hatchet, speak some truths, and get on the same page.

Kind of puzzling to see what Sharon is doing but it really puts another notch in the belt in terms of thinking she is, in fact, The Power Broker. If she's not, her agenda feels very muddy. There are a lot of damn Flag Smashers, it seems.

Seems like the episode wanted to channel the movie Seven with the whole 'what's in the box' bit. Based on the story, seems like Barnes got help from the Wakandans to get Wilson new gear as he embraces the idea of becoming Captain America.

Good to see a mid-credits scene return. Walker, who gets the benefit of a broken arm being healed relatively fast thanks to the serum, is making his own shield. Since he's making it on his own and isn't vibranium, it won't be as powerful. This has been a really fun character to see evolve over the last five episodes.

[Jarrod1983]

I just keep seeing him as Zeke from 22 Jump Street haha.

I actually didn't see that so I don't have that issue. He had a clean slate with me.

[Bert]

Not as good as WandaVision

Episode 6

I wish they called him Captain Falcon. Seems weird to be Captain America and keep the Falcon wings. He should take the serum and lose the wings if he's going to be Captain America.

I wonder where they go from here with Sharon being the Power Broker and Walker being US Agent.

[TimeSplitter]

I think JLD is going to help build The Thunderbolts. She could be the Maria Hill to Ross' Fury.

The episode was a bit off, but still good. The fight was a bit short, but I'm glad they devoted as much time to everything at the end.

Sam is going to have a lot of great maneuvers going forward flying with the shield.

Bucky's story with his list kinda got cut short. I read that COVID caused some production issues with this show, as it was suppose to come out before WandaVision. I wonder if they cut a few episodes because of these rumored issues.

I am always happy when they go to Sam's home. The ending with Isaiah Bradley was also beautiful.

[Jarrod1983]

Going to start Episode 6 soon. Then a Mighty Ducks intermission and then going to watch Mortal Kombat.

[mth]

Great final episode. Some dope action and some fantastic emotional/character stuff. Really good conclusion. Got a little choked during the

Isaiah Bradley statue scene

.
Some interesting open ends with

USAgent, JLD's character, and Sharon Carter

that I'll be curious to see develop whenever/wherever they do.
Wouldn't say it was better/worse than WandaVision, just different and very good.

[BGMaverick]

The Finale

This episode felt like rushed in a lot of ways and didn't focus heavily on the main characters as much as I would like but it was still enjoyable.

Seeing Sharon Carter back in New York, via Mission Impossible-like mask work was a convenient way to get her back in the mix quickly.

I was fairly underwhelmed with the GRC approach that bubbled up and climaxed in this episode. I know production of this show being halted changed general approaches to the main issue that was being battled for in some ways, but this felt a little flimsy. Be that as it may, having this come to a head in one location was kind of nice.

The fact that this finale more or less jumped right into the action definitely made it feel like it was blurring the line between episodic storytelling and a Marvel movie.

Karli was certainly starting to take another step into embracing more of a super villain-like role, with the rest of the remaining Flag Smashers starting to doubt her methodology. Things coming to a boiling point when she met Carter led to the reveal I assumed: Carter being The Power Broker. She clearly was burned by aiding The Avengers during Civil War and caused to flea to Madripoor. That set her off onto this dark path but it certainly seems like there's more wrinkles to it based on her conversation she had on the phone after being pardoned. Seems like she's driven to make the government pay but she's motivated to get paid herself.

This was another fun episode for John Walker. He really walked the tightrope between being the good soldier and being on the fringe of a psychotic break. That was literally on display as he was fighting Karli and ignoring the Senators trapped and potentially in serious danger. Now as US Agent, I'm looking forward to seeing more of this character and the dichotomy within him. Val was extremely limited in these last two episodes but she packed a punch. The pairing of her with Walker should be fun.

Karlie's cronies got caught rather easily, but it was pretty funny. Them being car bombed by Zemo was a nice touch before they got sent to The Raft. I'm curious what his actual agenda is though in the short term. Is he strictly okay just being forced to stay there rather than suffer the consequences of his actions in Wakanda? Regardless, he can clearly be a power player despite being locked up.

I was kind of disappointed by not being able to see Barnes "do the work" as Wilson said in the previous episode about fixing things. Yes, we got to see him talk to Yori about his son but we didn't see a reaction to that. I guess that's a fair resolution because what reaction would have been validating in that scenario? Maybe there's more to come from that. Leaving his book and and thank you note to his therapist was a decent sense of closure.

Of course, this episode was about Wilson and his reveal as the new Captain America. The costume and presentation were very cool. As I mentioned earlier, Walker was lacking recognition and almost allowed those GRC people to fall to their demise but that allowed Wilson to make the proper save. Like in sports, you never want to be the guy after the legend. You want to be the guy after the guy lol. Walker was a mess and tarnished what Steve Rogers stood for and Wilson got to step in and do right by the moniker. His speech/plea to the senator was very good. That and his outright unwillingness to fight Karli just showed that he's driven by optimism and trying to do the right thing. That was on full display when he caught back up with Isaiah Bradley. Of course, Bradley was still curmudgeonly towards Wilson but did show more signs of respect. It was extremely poignant and fitting that Wilson showed Bradley that an exhibit was made in his honor at the Smithsonian. Definitely a rewarding and touching moment to close off the season.

Nice to see that the show ended as Captain America and The Winter Soldier.

[Nash Diesel]

If Sam's speech didn't hit you in the heart you are a cold motherfucker lol

[Gangers]

It was a good speech but the idea that it would sway actual politicians strained credulity too much for me. As if senators are these really thoughtful people who can be appealed to with reason and emotive speeches rather than being bought and paid for by lobbyists.

[Pablo Diablo]

I can suspend disbelief for a super soldier serum. But senators listening to the people is too unrealistic. - Gangers 2021

[Nash Diesel]

It was a good speech but the idea that it would sway actual politicians strained credulity too much for me. As if senators are these really thoughtful people who can be appealed to with reason and emotive speeches rather than being bought and paid for by lobbyists.

I can suspend disbelief for a super soldier serum. But senators listening to the people is too unrealistic. - Gangers 2021

I thought the same thing lol.

[Gangers]

Not wrong though am I

[Nash Diesel]

Not wrong though am I

You are 100% wrong because we don't know if a politician was put in that exact same scenario how they would react. Maybe if we had to deal with a little snap of the Thanos finger we would have politicians willing to do more.

[MTR]

Not wrong though am I

I get where you are coming from but I would say in this instance with the whole world watching the speech thanks to tv cameras being there that it is reasonable to think that a senator may be swayed. Unless it is McConnell and then well if would have not listened.

[BGMaverick]

I get where you are coming from but I would say in this instance with the whole world watching the speech thanks to tv cameras being there that it is reasonable to think that a senator may be swayed. Unless it is McConnell and then well if would have not listened.

This is correct lol ^

If this isn't, then I need to ignore the fact Tommy sold half a million brake pads...

[virms]

Finished up Falcon and Winter Soldier last night. Another good marvel outing for me. I will admit they did get me hook, line and sinker with Falcon giving up the Cap thing at the beginning. I was super disappointed but obviously that is not how it played out. There were some very well done story lines in this but a few not so good. I really think the 6 episode arc hurt some of the storytelling and from what I read online they changed a major element in the Hand Smashers storyline that I think could have played out nicely and fleshed their group out more. Here is my main take aways

The lady that played Karli was a legit series stealer for me once she got going. Even with some hindered writing due to how fast pace they had to evolve the Hand Smashers storyline she did incredibly well. It's a pity she died but death is obviously not always the end in this type of universe. Nevertheless, we have a young and powerful actress on the rise.

The fleshing out of Bucky's character has actually got me interested in doing an entire Cap rewatch. I am looking forward to seeing more of him in the MU and possibly as Luke Skywalker.

The Isaiah storyline was very moving but again is something that really should have been fleshed out more. I think some flashbacks of his life could have pushed this to another dimension. The man who played Isaiah was also another scene stealer. Some incredible acting from him.

Sam and Bucky have an outstanding chemistry together. They just have a perfect comradery than flawlessly transitions on screen.

I'm not really digging Sam's new Cap uniform. It's ok but I think there is an over abundance of white in it that detracts from the over all colors of the red, white and blue as a symbol.

The new cap storyline was ok by me. Again, the 6 episode arc forced what could have been an eventual downturn into his undoing into something rushed and his "redemption" arc was even worse. Just way to quick.

The Sharon Carter plotline and twist was fine. I honestly had forgotten all about her and her storyline but the twist is fine. She has reason to be angry and to want to cause chaos.

The reports are already out about Captain America 4 with Mackie taking the helm in a full fledged Cap movie which absolutely needs to be done at this point. I'm on board with another trilogy with our new Captain America. A lot more stories to tell that if done right could do wonders.

I am ready for Loki. Bring it baby

Edit: The fleshing out of the blip is also very fascinating as a whole. The fact they are presenting many people have ended up preferring what came out of it after living through it for 5 years makes for some very interesting storytelling.

[virms]

It was a good speech but the idea that it would sway actual politicians strained credulity too much for me. As if senators are these really thoughtful people who can be appealed to with reason and emotive speeches rather than being bought and paid for by lobbyists.

Of course if you are comparing it to our world aspect. However, I think politicians, not all, would be able to have a bit more reasoning as a whole after seeing Thanos, the blip and they really pushed the fact that before everyone came back the world was basically united as one. That leads me to believe that their would definitely be politicians at hand that would feel the same as Cap and help fight for the right thing.

[Gangers]

If only we had an example of some kind of global crisis with a huge death toll so we could see how politicians would realistically react in such a scenario.

[Bert]

Covid killed 50% of the population.

[virms]

If only we had an example of some kind of global crisis with a huge death toll so we could see how politicians would realistically react in such a scenario.

Yes I can see the similarities in covid vs a galactic conquer invading earth with an army and subsequently erasing 4 billion people as the same. Consider me team gangrel at this point.

When will all the people who died from covid come back so this analogy will be even more apt?

[Nash Diesel]

Yes I can see the similarities in covid vs a galactic conquer invading earth with an army and subsequently erasing 4 billion people as the same. Consider me team gangrel at this point.

When will all the people who died from covid come back so this analogy will be even more apt?

Gangrel needs to add this take to his positive/negative quality dating thread he started in the Asylum.

If only we had Captain America and Winter Soldier to show us the way. What's the best alternative we have right now? A 16 year old Swedish girl and Elon Musk? Fuck if I know.

[Gangers]

Oh wow, it's the literal bunch. It was supposed to be a light hearted comment initially but I actually think I'm more right than you on this.

If in the MCU politicians aren't grubby, soulless, corrupt, self serving bastards then very well. I mean every time they've been shown previously it's been well established that they are, but ok they've all had a Damascene conversion and now they act altruistically for the benefit of all humanity. Heartwarming stuff.

[Gangers]

virms do you actually know what an 'analogy' is? Because if all the features of both things were precisely the same, it wouldn't be an analogy. It's pretty obtuse even for you to not understand the general point being made, that a hugely significant event that causes global chaos as well as enormous loss of life and negative effects for billions of others indirectly, has and would not stop politicians (like the ones you vote for/support) from being self-serving and change their entire personalities.

[virms]

virms do you actually know what an 'analogy' is? Because if all the features of both things were precisely the same, it wouldn't be an analogy. It's pretty obtuse even for you to not understand the general point being made, that a hugely significant event that causes global chaos as well as enormous loss of life and negative effects for billions of others indirectly, has and would not stop politicians (like the ones you vote for/support) from being self-serving and change their entire personalities.

The problem is, as your thread states, you are very stubborn and I've noticed this especially with your viewpoints on anything. As pretty much everyone has said you have to suspend your disbelief a little bit. I get your analogy but it seems very reasonable for me for politicians in the marvel universe to be a bit more open minded considering what they went thru with the invasion/blip and then a "terrorist" kidnapping.

It was a quick shot scene to move a storyline point along. Maybe they will make a supplemental comic for you that is just the politicians having a meetings over the issue so it becomes less of a stretch for ya.

[Nash Diesel]

Oh wow, it's the literal bunch. It was supposed to be a light hearted comment initially but I actually think I'm more right than you on this.

If in the MCU politicians aren't grubby, soulless, corrupt, self serving bastards then very well. I mean every time they've been shown previously it's been well established that they are, but ok they've all had a Damascene conversion and now they act altruistically for the benefit of all humanity. Heartwarming stuff.

Hey you were the one going on and on about how unrealistic that ending was with Sam talking to the politicians, people, etc.

Nothing is relatable in this discussion because we're talking about science fiction versus reality. It's wayyyyy too far fetched to try and be all "Eh this would never happen!" You have no idea. Show me the time aliens invaded Manhattan and a team of superheroes banded together. We haven't experienced anything remotely close to the events in the MCU. Where was Capt America during WW2 when we needed him?!?!?!

[Nash Diesel]

The problem is, as your thread states, you are very stubborn and I've noticed this especially with your viewpoints on anything. As pretty much everyone has said you have to suspend your disbelief a little bit. I get your analogy but it seems very reasonable for me for politicians in the marvel universe to be a bit more open minded considering what they went thru with the invasion/blip and then a "terrorist" kidnapping.

It was a quick shot scene to move a storyline point along. Maybe they will make a supplemental comic for you that is just the politicians having a meetings over the issue so it becomes less of a stretch for ya.

This concept, very hard for dude to understand. Watching movies with people who have weird hot takes bother me. When people are like "Why didn't they just do that??" or "That would never happen" As the Hulk is sliding off the side of a building Kong style, completely forgetting it's The Incredible Hulk doing it and the building holding up from that kind of damage is irrelevant lol.

[Gangers]

Science fiction is, and has always been a vehicle to make relatable points about the real world. It's ostensibly set in our world - they refer to real events that have happened in our past. So why do you all think these pricks would act wildly differently to their real life counterparts?

In numerous MCU films the calibre of politician has been well established.

[virms]

Science fiction is, and has always been a vehicle to make relatable points about the real world. It's ostensibly set in our world - they refer to real events that have happened in our past. So why do you all think these pricks would act wildly differently to their real life counterparts?

In numerous MCU films the calibre of politician has been well established.

There are thing called redemption arcs. There was even a few in this series. I mean You could probably even consider the politicians changing their mind and doing the right thing as a redemption arc tbh.

[Fro]

FALCON AND WINTER SOLIDER FINALE SPOILERS:

I found the finale very clunky. The high level story writing was good but the script writing left a lot to be desired. Maybe I dropped the ball as a viewer but the action scenes that made up the first half of the episode were hard to follow. Forget all of the story, I just didn't think it was good action writing because I couldn't quite follow what the bad guy's plan was and who was going where. There were good set pieces mixed it but either the editing or the writing was not quite there as compared to a great action thriller sequence.

Sam's speech was good but going back across the whole series I didn't understand Karli well enough to validate the comparison between the plight of the refugees to the plight of black Americans. Again, maybe this is me being a bad viewer and forgetting something but if you told me to explain Karli's background that led her to be radicalized, I wouldn't be able to. I understand it generally but I really feel like we're missing a couple flashbacks of her life coming together after the snap and then her life being torn apart by the blip due to the re-bordering initiative. I don't need everything teed up but a villain's backstory is generally vital in an MCU movie, especially when that aforementioned comparison was so important to Sam's arc and to what the show was trying to say about black history.

It was certainly no fault of Erin Kellyman, though. I agree with virm that she was great in this and will go onto big things as an actress. Wyatt Russell was the other standout - he and JLD are a winning combo for sure.

As for Sam and Bucky, they are good together but for the moment I've had my fill of them and Sharon Carter. Sharon was a badass in one of the earlier episodes but I felt she was pretty dry in the finale. I can't say I'm all that psyched if they make a 4th Captain America movie with this bunch. I'm fine with them showing up in another Avengers-type-film but I'll be more excited when US Agent and Val re-appear.

This is a minor qualm but going back to Sam's speech, I was already scratching my head when Sam flew Karli's dead body out of the building instead of flying Sharon's living body to medical attention. Obviously he needed Karli there to make his speech but like he just left Sharon to bleed out? She ended up being fine - maybe she didn't really take a bullet in the way I thought she did because she seemingly suffered no ill effects. Whatever.

WandaVision was for sure better to me. And Loki looks awesome. My overall assessment of Falcon & Winter Solider: solid, not outstanding.

[Chris]

I was disappointed with the action throughout the series. Sharon taking on the guys at the shipping container and Bucky and Sam vs Walker were great. But other scenes were clunky and choppily edited. Sam vs Batroc in the finale never really got going because it kept cutting back to Bucky. I thought it was weird to not keep the focus on Sam in his new suit for those first few minutes.

The suit looks good though I’m not a fan of how it stops half way up his face.

Episode 5 left Walker in a really interesting place and yet in the finale he just turns up and is accepted as one of the good guys.

Sharon Carter’s reveal as the power broker could have been really good if she had been a fully fleshed out character throughout the series.

The scenes with Isaiah were great. I would have liked to have seen a flashback to his fight with Bucky. He’s another character that could have been in the series a lot more, but they made every scene with him count.

“On and On” is a brilliant credits track.

Overall I think the writing has been really up and down. Some nice ideas, but the execution was poor at times. Episode 5 was the high point for me and the series did get better over time. But it asked a lot of questions without having the courage to explore them. There’s a really great concept with how the world has fallen apart after people returned from the snap (though I wouldn’t be surprised if they regret making the time jump in Endgame 5 years instead of one or two), but I think we need to start seeing this stuff rather than just some quick references in conversation. Same with Bucky’s list - even two minutes showing that confession to Yori would have been a nice emotional ending to his arc. But they cut away.

I’m a bit worried about a Captain America film with this writing team. Marcus and McFeely did an incredible job with the Cap films, Infinity War and Endgame - they’re a tough act to follow.

[Bert]

[TimeSplitter]

A fun first episode. Hiddleston and Owen Wilson have great chemistry. Interested to see where this show goes.

Do they find a way to get this version of Loki into the main timeline, and that is how he starts his anti-hero run in The Dark World?
Interested to see how they play with Loki's gender fluidity with Lady Loki as the bad guy.

[Pablo Diablo]

I've seen people talk about Loki's gender fluidity and Lady Loki but was there something in the episode that proved that?

[TimeSplitter]

I've seen people talk about Loki's gender fluidity and Lady Loki but was there something in the episode that proved that?

https://twitter.com/LokiOfficial/sta...69573455810561

In this video, you can see on the dossier that Fluid is filled out for the gender section.

[Pablo Diablo]

Ah ok.

And the Lady Loki speculation is just the comics speculation then. It makes sense of course.

[Bert]

It was okay. I'll give it a chance but it seems weird to go out of your way to

make the infinity stones look useless. I'm not a fan of this idea that free will is an illusion but Loki somehow managed to break from the path, it doesn't really make sense to me. Also, Owen Wilson didn't say wow once this episode.

[mth]

Dig the overall aesthetic of the show looking all retro 70s and whatnot. Interesting and fun stuff with the TVA concepts. Some good interactions between Loki and

Owen Wilson.

RE: the gender fluid stuff, I could see the evil Loki that's the bad guy being Lady Loki now that you brought it up.

[Fro]

I liked it. Good set up episode, for this series, the TVA and

the multiverse in general.

[Nash Diesel]

Digging it. It's interesting just how intertwined the ideas of DC and Marvel truly are.

[Fro]

it was pretty funny that

Loki is DB Cooper

[Fro]

for the sake of nerdy time discussion... just wrapping my head around this...

the Avengers were supposed to go back in time, that's part of the sacred timeline. that means them botching the tesseract in NYC was also sacred, resulting in Cap/Tony having to go back further to get that particular stone.

but Loki picking up the tesseract isn't sacred. maybe because the Avengers were responsible enough to put everything back in place and cut off all time branches. whereas Loki would have gone and branched the shit out of everything. fair enough.

but what about Thanos? him coming to the future in Endgame was sacred (?), but him leaving his own timeline must have branched the shit out of that timeline. in the timeline he left, Infinity War never happened and there was no snap. the whole universe is different so that's a major branch. shouldnt the TVA have stopped variant Thanos, thus allowing the Avengers to easily snap everyone back without the battle at the end of Endgame?

[TimeSplitter]

for the sake of nerdy time discussion... just wrapping my head around this...

the Avengers were supposed to go back in time, that's part of the sacred timeline. that means them botching the tesseract in NYC was also sacred, resulting in Cap/Tony having to go back further to get that particular stone.

but Loki picking up the tesseract isn't sacred. maybe because the Avengers were responsible enough to put everything back in place and cut off all time branches. whereas Loki would have gone and branched the shit out of everything. fair enough.

but what about Thanos? him coming to the future in Endgame was sacred (?), but him leaving his own timeline must have branched the shit out of that timeline. in the timeline he left, Infinity War never happened and there was no snap. the whole universe is different so that's a major branch. shouldnt the TVA have stopped variant Thanos, thus allowing the Avengers to easily snap everyone back without the battle at the end of Endgame?

I imagine Gamora surviving at the end of Endgame will also result in her being a variant. I'm sure the show or future projects will explain this away as "how it is suppose to be"

The show will likely end with Loki going back to Endgame/Avengers and putting the Teseract back. I also think Thanos coming back will be tied to what the Avengers did is ok.

[Nash Diesel]

We're one episode in people, I'm not sure fantasizing about it's ending is going to be smart. Don't build yourself up to be let down because what you thought was going to happen didn't is all I'm saying. I do it too much lol.

[TimeSplitter]

Can't wait for all the Mephisto theories this time around.

[Fro]

Can't wait for all the Mephisto theories this time around.

I thought Mephisto was going to be the villain when the kid pointed at the devil painting

by the way I just got my ticket to Black Widow

[Nash Diesel]

I'm starting to get some DC Legends of Tomorrow vibes with this show. That's not a bad thing as I'm a big fan of that show as well.

I'm not familiar at all with Owen Wilson's character, not sure if he's from the comics or what but I keep thinking they're calling him MORBIUS and it's frustrating. It keeps reminding me that the movie should've been out by now

[Fro]

The second episode was good. It was another set-up episode mainly but now we can move onto more exciting things as our lead character and villain are in motion. Not that a 6 episode show will always follow a 2-episode first act, 2-episode 2nd act format, but in this case it feels like we're now onto Act 2. I look forward to finding out more about our villain. The reveal in this episode was fine but didn't blow me away or anything.

Seemed like she left the portal open for Loki to follow her at the end, yea? So she wants him to come along or has some use for him.

[BigAl]

I don’t know if it’s MCU exhaustion or if maybe I don’t think Loki can carry a whole show by himself, but I haven’t enjoyed the first two episodes at all. I’ll give #3 a chance next week but I’m just not liking this at all. Even Owen Wilson’s usual schtick isn’t saving it for me.

[Nash Diesel]

I don’t know if it’s MCU exhaustion or if maybe I don’t think Loki can carry a whole show by himself, but I haven’t enjoyed the first two episodes at all. I’ll give #3 a chance next week but I’m just not liking this at all. Even Owen Wilson’s usual schtick isn’t saving it for me.

I think ultimately Disney/Marvel know that these characters like Loki, Vision, Falcon, etc. are not as strong of a brand as the OG's like Iron Man, Spidey, X-Men, so that's why we're only getting 1 season of each and a limited amount of episodes. Like this one is only 6 episodes I believe which is good for a character like Loki. He works better in the ensemble than on his own. He's interesting in the big picture. He adds a nice element to Thor.

Right now I think the show is good but I want it to open up more or something. I don't need to see Thor or even Hawkeye make a cameo but I want to see maybe more of him being responsible for stuff like how he was supposedly DB Cooper. Maybe he really killed JFK ala Comedian in Watchmen? IDK something.

[Fro]

Episode 3 was the best yet

[TimeSplitter]

I agree, this episode was quite good.

A lot of people are calling this a "filler" episode. You can't call something a filler episode until you've seen the whole season. We got a lot of insight into Lady Loki and her intentions. The revelation of the TVA agents not being created by the Timekeepers is big, and probably why Owen Wilson loves jetskis so much. Looking forward to seeing how they get off the planet before it blows up.

[Fro]

I thought the Lady Loki actor was great in this episode. I'm not previously familiar with her and while I wasn't sold after her brief appearance in episode 2, now I'm a big fan. She and regular Loki have great chemistry.

[Chris]

I’m really enjoying this show. The first two episodes in particular have been like plays - I could watch Hiddleston and Wilson talk for hours.

Episode 3 spoilers

Despite all the obvious questions about Sylvie, it was interesting that this episode spent way more time delving into Loki’s character.

If last week’s trip to Pompeii was like something out of a Doctor Who episode, this week really doubled down on the homage.

There’s nothing funnier than Loki trying a scheme and having it fail miserably and I enjoyed seeing the old woman blow him away when he posed as her dead husband.

I thought the series was going to end with Mobious having a go on a jet ski, but now it seems like this is something he enjoyed before he joined the TVA. I liked how they dropped that bombshell about the variants into the conversation rather casually. Nothing filler about this episode to me - this show’s strength is two people sitting at a table talking.

[WWXChairman]

Okay so I am actually trying my absolute best to stay on top of this show so that I can really discuss it in real time for once.

I know it's a longshot, but I'm hoping they use this Mobius character for at least references to the Fantastic Four.

[TimeSplitter]

It would be nice if Mobius showed up for a scene here and there in the movies. Feige has said that things like this are possible with the shows and movies existing at the same time.

I thought that Lady Loki's reference to a mailman she was involved with could be a reference to Willy Lumpkin, but that may be chasing too much.

[Nash Diesel]

I'm just not feeling this as much as the other 2 shows. It's to the point where I'm watching it but not really retaining any of it.

[Bert]

Loki is growing on me after the 2nd and 3rd episodes. WandaVision will stay my favorite though.

[Nash Diesel]

I said it before but I think I'm personally starting to feel oversaturated with the MCU. I think in comparison, Netflix was kind of the same for me. They had the bangers like Jessica Jones, Cage, and Daredevil but then kind of flopped with season 1 of Iron Fish, Defenders was a little much but I liked it, Punisher was fantastic. I think when Iron Fist dropped I was like, fuck, another one?

Loki will probably be something when it's all said and done I'll look back and hopefully feel like it was worth it. Maybe watch it a 2nd time through like I did with Winter Soldier/Falcon and catch some of the stuff I missed.

[Fro]

4th episode was another good one. FYI: There's a mid credits scene.

I hope Mobius comes back, and I presume he will given that Loki survived being purged. I mean that can't be the end of Mobius. Too anti-climatic.

Alligator Loki FTW.

[mth]

They almost had me when

Loki got pruned but then I remembered there was stuff in the trailer we hadn't seen yet. But for a split second I thought they might go forward with Sylvie as the new Loki full on and I was ok with that.

Definitely think Mobius will be back. Seeing as Loki being pruned didn't actually kill him, pruning seems like it just sends you somewhere else and if Loki's gonna get out of that, so can Mobius. I anticipate a triumphant return on a jetski.

And hell yes, Alligator Loki FTW.

[Jimmy Zero]

I said it before but I think I'm personally starting to feel oversaturated with the MCU. I think in comparison, Netflix was kind of the same for me. They had the bangers like Jessica Jones, Cage, and Daredevil but then kind of flopped with season 1 of Iron Fish, Defenders was a little much but I liked it, Punisher was fantastic. I think when Iron Fist dropped I was like, fuck, another one?

Loki will probably be something when it's all said and done I'll look back and hopefully feel like it was worth it. Maybe watch it a 2nd time through like I did with Winter Soldier/Falcon and catch some of the stuff I missed.

I definitely feel you on this. While I continue to love the MCU stuff and will watch all of it as long as it continues to be what I consider high quality popcorn entertainment, it is starting to be a bit samey. That said, I hope with they use the Disney streaming service as an opportunity to take some chances. Not everything in the MCU has to play towards the bigger crossover stories that they tell.

For example (light Wandavision spoilers):

I thought Wandavision was awesome for the most part. The idea that she was processing her grief was a great hook, but once it devolved into "fight the bad guy in a big CGI Marvel fight" it started to fall apart for me. Part of the problem is I don't think they did a particularly good job of establishing the relationship between Wanda and Vision post AoU and pre Infinity War. We also know Wanda is going to factor pretty heavily into the next phase of the MCU, so it never really felt like the stakes were particularly high during the show.

I'm really enjoying Loki so far because I love the character, but also because this is exploring a new aspect of the MCU that we haven't seen.

I'd love for some of the MCU shows to focus on new characters in the same way the Netflix shows did. Characters who have to deal with the fallout from these giant existential conflicts.

At this point, my biggest gripe with the MCU is how much of an afterthought pretty much all of the villains seem to be. Other than Loki and Kingpin (who I only mention because technically the D'Onofrio Kingpin exists in the MCU, but wasn't handled by the usual suspects), almost no time has been devoted towards developing a villain in any meaningful way (IMO, Thanos doesn't really count since they needed to devote an entire movie to him to get people familiar, and he never actually developed as a character). The fact that Red Skull and Ronan were basically just one and done villains still bugs me. If they do villains like Doom, Magneto, Apocalypse, Galactus, Kang, Sentinels, etc. the way they've treated villains in the MCU so far, I'll be pissed.

[Nash Diesel]

I definitely feel you on this. While I continue to love the MCU stuff and will watch all of it as long as it continues to be what I consider high quality popcorn entertainment, it is starting to be a bit samey. That said, I hope with they use the Disney streaming service as an opportunity to take some chances. Not everything in the MCU has to play towards the bigger crossover stories that they tell.

For example (light Wandavision spoilers):

I thought Wandavision was awesome for the most part. The idea that she was processing her grief was a great hook, but once it devolved into "fight the bad guy in a big CGI Marvel fight" it started to fall apart for me. Part of the problem is I don't think they did a particularly good job of establishing the relationship between Wanda and Vision post AoU and pre Infinity War. We also know Wanda is going to factor pretty heavily into the next phase of the MCU, so it never really felt like the stakes were particularly high during the show.

I'm really enjoying Loki so far because I love the character, but also because this is exploring a new aspect of the MCU that we haven't seen.

I'd love for some of the MCU shows to focus on new characters in the same way the Netflix shows did. Characters who have to deal with the fallout from these giant existential conflicts.

At this point, my biggest gripe with the MCU is how much of an afterthought pretty much all of the villains seem to be. Other than Loki and Kingpin (who I only mention because technically the D'Onofrio Kingpin exists in the MCU, but wasn't handled by the usual suspects), almost no time has been devoted towards developing a villain in any meaningful way (IMO, Thanos doesn't really count since they needed to devote an entire movie to him to get people familiar, and he never actually developed as a character). The fact that Red Skull and Ronan were basically just one and done villains still bugs me. If they do villains like Doom, Magneto, Apocalypse, Galactus, Kang, Sentinels, etc. the way they've treated villains in the MCU so far, I'll be pissed.

The villains. That's something I think is more up DC's alley. Especially Batman. Pretty much all Batman movies are telling the story of the villain. I think that's what also helped Sam Raimi's Spider-Man movies.

In the MCU, it's focused heavily on the superheroes and I get it. Many of them do not have the history on camera as Superman, Batman, and to an extent X-Men and Spider-Man. We didn't get a great 90's Avengers cartoon lol.

X-Men did a really good job with both Magnetos but they too somewhat fell behind with giving us more fleshed out villains.

[lotjx]

Episode 4 of Loki maybe one of the best hours in TV this year.

[Bert]

Well, it's not even an hour long.

[TimeSplitter]

No need to be that pedantic.

I thought this episode was incredible.

My notes:

- I really hope Owen Wilson comes back as a clone. His character has several clones in the comics, similar to Patton Oswalt's character in Agents of Shield (if anyone watched it)
- I had heard Richard E. Grant was rumored to be in this show, and I'm glad he is classic Loki.
- Alligator Loki. Will we ever see Frog Thor?
- Glad to see a bit more about Renslayer's character. Cool to see her in the Sylvie flashback was a nice touch. Her character is closely tied Kang the Conqueror in the comics, so maybe she is our tie in to that character in the future
- B-15's performance the whole episode was great. I hope we get to see Eugene again at some point.

This show has set my hopes for the What If series even higher. If they can do this with live action, I can't wait to see what the MCU can do with animation.

[Chris]

Fantastic episode. The series is building really nicely. The writing has been top notch - they really let you settle into the dialogue scenes.

Nice tease of what’s to come in the mid-credits scene and hopefully the same applies to another character.

[TimeSplitter]

Absolutely hilarious Chris.

[Fro]

Episode 5 was cool but anyway here's a new trailer for the next show. August 11 is the premiere.



Looks pretty cool.


Black Widow tonight

[mth]

Alligator Loki for president.

[Fro]

[Chris]

Definitely on board for What If. Cool to hear Boseman’s voice. They’re already planning another 10 episodes for season 2.

I really enjoyed episode 5.

Richard E Grant was great. He did a lot with a small amount of screen time, like his reaction during the conversation with Mobious. His illusion of Asgard at the end was cool.

The CGI is up and down in this show. Alioth and the castle looked good, but there were scenes of the Lokis walking across the land and they really stood out against the green screen.

It seems like there’s a ton of Easter eggs in this episode, not least the Thanos Copter.

The music in this show is really good - I really liked the theme playing when Loki and Mobious were saying goodbye.

[Chris]

Well I think they stuck the landing pretty well. Episode 6 spoilers:

I see some reactions complaining about it being too talky, how Loki took a back seat and how Kang doesn’t have an impact for non comic book fans. I don’t agree with any of that. The show has always had a play-like aesthetic with people having extended conversations. Loki has undergone a huge transformation in this series and he’s the one resisting the temptation of having a throne while Sylvie hasn’t evolved and has now fucked everyone. And I thought Majors was great as the big bad. Loki doesn’t know who he is so he’s learning at the same time as the audience.

There was a great Planet of the Apes or Twin Peaks vibe with the ending, where Loki realises things aren’t right.

I wish Mobious had been given more to do. But unlike how some of the supporting characters were under-served in Wandavision’s finale, this is more forgivable since we’re getting a season 2. Much like Thanos, Mobious on a jet ski is inevitable.

So Phase 4 is going to be multiverses up the wazoo. I wasn’t really feeling the gimmick of seeing multiple Batmen and Spider-Men in DC and Msrvel’s upcoming films, but they seem to be leaning into this pretty hard now and it’ll be interesting to see what stories they tell. Though if you aren’t a die-hard fan watching all the Disney+ shows, it could be a lot for audiences to get their heads around. It certainly opens doors for the likes of Hugh Jackman to do a one-and-done appearance as is being rumoured.

[Fro]

Yea that was good. This topped WandaVision as my favorite of the 3 series so far. Although I preferred the heart and soul of WandaVision, it simply had too many story flaws and goofy writing moments. Loki felt much more consistent and sleek.

I thought our intro to Kang was pretty great. I’ve been vocally hesitant of how much they’ll dive into the multiverse but this hooked me in pretty well.

Stoked we’re getting a season 2, which would probably lead right into Ant Man 3 which has Kang announced in the cast.

[WWXChairman]

I thought that Lady Loki's reference to a mailman she was involved with could be a reference to Willy Lumpkin, but that may be chasing too much.

Some theories are saying that had something to do with WandaVision.

[TimeSplitter]

Great finale:

The idea that the Multiverse War they talked about at the beginning being just all Kangs fighting is really cool. I wonder if Ravona went off to another version of Kang who will be a bit more villainous in season 2.

[kdestiny]

What If...? Now going

Great first episode, I do love the avenues this could open for the MCU

[mth]

First ep was really fun. Nothing overly complicated just a good time and the animation is gorgeous. Is every episode going to be stand alone or will things tie together at all?

[Fro]

It was cool. Didn’t blow me away or anything

I do believe the episodes will cross over with each other

[virms]

I enjoyed the first episode but my only complaint is it seems they had a lot of Saturday morning cartoon exaggerated over the top emotions followed immediately by people getting killed in horrific ways. Just weird to me I guess. I think overall the series will be good. A lot of interesting stories to tell.