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Thread: Sean Waltman: Better Face or Heel?

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    Legend Badger's Avatar
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    Sean Waltman: Better Face or Heel?

    Sort of a spin-off from the IC title thread and he has been a polarising character throughout his time even coining the term ďX-Pac HeatĒ which there is some debate whether that is true or not but thatís not really what this thread is for.

    The question is overall throughout his career do you feel he was better at the heel or the face role as an argument could be made for both. His upset victory over Razor launched him and a great face in peril along with coming back to WWF as X-Pac yet his heel turn against Kane and joining heel DX and his earlier WCW NWO Syxx run also made him famous as a prick heel too. Also pretending X-Factor didnít exist.

    Anyway as a polarising character who didnít quite make the big time, what do you think he was better at?

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    OMG ELITIST Hacksaw's Avatar
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    They milked the feud with him and Kane in 99-00 so long that fans started to legitimately hate the fact that he didn't get a payoff, and he never really recovered from that. What a weird way to have your career go sideways. The timing was bad, because he's a guy who could really have used a refresher in a new company right at the time where that was the least reasonable option.

    From that point on, it would've been hard to call him a great heel. He got heat himself, but it never really seemed like the face he was going up against was getting any shine out of it. Whereas everyone enjoyed the initial 1-2-3 Kid run, right? He worked a high energy style and was booked well. So I think I'd lean toward him being a better face. On the other hand, it's easy to see how he'd have gotten lost in the shuffle; look at the Summerslam '99 and Summerslam 2000 cards just to see the depth in the roster.

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    Legend Badger's Avatar
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    I swear my unwitting uncanny ability to call Hacksaw back sometimes scares even myself! Hooooooioo!!!!

    I absolutely 1000% agree on X-Pac/Kane. Kane should have had that ultimate pay-off at Wrestlemania then they go with that shit tag match with Road-Dogg and Rikishi. Not the first thing wrong with that Mania (the main event being a four way instead of just Rock and Hacksaw’s best friend ).

    Also X-Pac baby face getting an IC title victory over a heel Razor, Jarrett or Owen would have been great. He knew how to pull the crowd as a heel but ultimately a greasy bridesmaid and never a bride.
    Last edited by Badger; November 28th, 2020 at 1:27 AM.

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    OMG ELITIST Hacksaw's Avatar
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    HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! I could sense there were questions of 20 years ago that needed my sagacious judgment.

    I just don't know that I can think of another guy whose career went sideways at least in part because he didn't get squashed when he should have. And him getting beat wasn't even the climax of that nonsense match, there was more attention paid to the stupid Pete Rose bullshit afterward!

    So yeah, the booking did him no favors (even though it seems like maybe it was trying really hard to do him a favor which then backfired). But he was also breaking down physically at that point and was having his troubles outside the ring. Weird to think about how he's only about a year older than Edge, and certainly nobody thought Edge was a better worker in like 1999.
    Last edited by Hacksaw; November 28th, 2020 at 1:55 AM.

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    Legend Badger's Avatar
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    The Pete Rose running gag thing would have been much better executed if they did it prior to the match like they did it twice before, not right after the match.

    Third time was not a charm and they screwed up the formula.
    Last edited by Badger; November 28th, 2020 at 2:00 AM.

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    Ooh also X-Pac and NWO beating up Kane stealing his mask and Kane (due to circumstances admittedly) not getting revenge for that.

    X-Pac was begging to get his arse kicked as the blowoff yet the only satisfaction for Kane was at Arnageddon 99 before Tori turned on him. Tombstone Tori after was great though again still not the ultimate PPV blow off we wanted

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    GO ON LAD Fanny Batter's Avatar
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    He was annoyingly overpushed as a heel in 2000, where he just didn't really get any comeuppance. In the Kane and Dudleyz angles the focus was on others taking a beating in the blow off, he beat Road Dogg, then had effectively a banana peel loss against Jericho in the cage match. He never took a fucking shoeing, which is the entire point of a little shithouse heel like he was. In ring babyface, character heel. Like Christian. Always feel disingenuous as a face, but work brilliantly bell to bell.

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    3x beaters of LiVARpool
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    I think he was better as a face as 123 Kid and as a heel as X-Pac. Cop out I know, but very different characters.

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    Waltman's strongest trait was his workrate. He was truly one of the best. In-ring, his best work was as a babyface, so I have to say babyface. He was still a great worker as a heel, of course, but his personality is what shined as a heel, and it wasn't that great.

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    He was an amazing worker in 93-94. That match with Bret on Raw for the title was just amazing. The Owen one at the KOTR as well.

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    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    It's hard to say but gun to my head I would lean toward babyface. His babyface work the 1st time he was in the WWF was solid for what he was and that was a very good worker. He could've been IC champion before going to WCW even for a brief moment. I never felt him as the random tag-team champion because his partners never made sense. Had he won them with Razor it would've been much better.

    He's not a guy who can stand on his own imo. When he works heel, it works great when he's with others. DX, nWo, even that X-Factor bullshit. He just can't talk, he gets too wrapped up in his head and most of the time we saw him he was seriously fucked up on drugs so who knows what he could've been. But I really liked his 2nd run in the WWF as a babyface whether that was teaming with DX or Kane. He could've had an IC title run or even be a KOTR winner in 1998-1999 if they really wanted to go that route.

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    I think X Factor was the last roll of the dice to try and push him to main event level. Shame he and the stable both sucked.

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    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Romford Pele View Post
    I think X Factor was the last roll of the dice to try and push him to main event level. Shame he and the stable both sucked.
    I don't know if it was to get him to the main event level or just to give him something to do lol. It was such a random stable to make. I might go back and follow their path and see why it was formed in the first place. I know X Pac and Justin Credible were cool, but how did Albert fit in to the mix? I also think Justin Credible looked like a total asshole in WWF. His look in ECW wasn't much but holy fuck that guy was a top guy in ECW and that was about it lol.

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    As a face, fans wanted to cheer for the 123 Kid. As a heel, X-Pac was overpushed to the point that fans didn't want to even watch his promos of matches. Fans weren't booing him as much as they were booing the fact that he was being shoved down our throats.

    He had plenty of talent in the ring, especially for his size, as his sellng ability would make anyone else's offense look great. But it doesn't take long for a guy who loses far too often, to be looked at as a chump instead of as a champ.

    X-Pac heat is also known as go-away heat. King Corbin seems to have a bad case of it.

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    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3puppies View Post
    As a face, fans wanted to cheer for the 123 Kid. As a heel, X-Pac was overpushed to the point that fans didn't want to even watch his promos of matches. Fans weren't booing him as much as they were booing the fact that he was being shoved down our throats.

    He had plenty of talent in the ring, especially for his size, as his sellng ability would make anyone else's offense look great. But it doesn't take long for a guy who loses far too often, to be looked at as a chump instead of as a champ.

    X-Pac heat is also known as go-away heat. King Corbin seems to have a bad case of it.
    I never understood this because I personally never felt he was ever pushed that hard. He never really had a memorable singles feud outside of Razor Ramon as 123 Kid. As Syxx, I guess Eddie Guerrero but that was it. He comes back and as a singles wrestler he held the European title and that was it. Tag-team title runs throughout his career but nothing super major outside of Kane.

    He was always booked as a solid midcarder. Sometimes they'd put him a little higher up in the midcard but he'd usually put someone over. At least when he wrestled you knew you were going to get a solid performance unlike Corbin or Meat who just went out there and sucked balls lol.

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    Main Eventer Jarrod1983's Avatar
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    I don't think X-Pac was shoved down our throats so much. Turned heel in late 99 by turning on Kane after they did that storyline of him getting Kane to come out of his shell. They built and built how X-Pac could be trusted by Kane and then he stabbed him in the back real good.. Heel DX is born.

    HHH then has that insane Street Fight with Foley, followed by their HIAC. HHH was getting cheers with these kind of performances.

    Billy Gunn goes down with injury in Feb 2000.

    Road Dogg was still a crowd pleaser due to his act even with his heel turn.

    Back to X-Pac, he is tormenting Kane, using violence on a female (Tori) and even brainwashed her (possible rape innuendo? I'd have to go back and watch but remember they pushed the line). They both go on to mess with Kane. Pac was building good heat through all of this, while his running buddies by comparison are pretty cool. HHH was the coolest heel going and Road Dogg is the D-O Double G. Then there was woman beating, brain washer X-Pac. He had good heat. The heat was so good even when everyone on the WWF side in the invasion was babyface except X-Pac because the fans wouldn't accept it.

    He was a underrated heel for sure.

    That babyface 1-2-3 fire was over though. Kid was the man pulling those victories out of thin air. Probably my favorite version of the 3 Faces of Waltman.

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    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    It's a shame his run as LHW/CW champion gets lost in memories. WWF just never showcased that division very well. He was in the best shape of his career during this time and had really good matches with Kidman, Tajiri, etc.

    I also wish the WWE version of the nWo would have panned out better but it was snake bit from the jump and wasn't apparently meant to be. X-Pac didn't do himself any favors though behind the scenes during this time.

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