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Thread: Top 5 Wrestlers Who Never Wore IC Gold

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    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Top 5 Wrestlers Who Never Wore IC Gold

    When talking to my guy Badger about Savio Vega's appearance at SS last night it had me thinking about wrestlers who never held the Intercontinental championship who most definitely should have. Here's my top 5 and reasons WHY. You don't have to explain your choices but if they're going to be ridiculous like Mideon or Bastion Booger then maybe one is needed lol.

    *In no order*

    1. Savio Vega-In a perfect world this guy fills Razor and Shawn's spot in the IC title picture in 1995-1996. I think, what if Savio beats Goldust prior to Mania 12 for the IC title and his match with Stone Cold becomes an IC title match. Many fans that were watching during that time I think forget about that feud, and it was necessary for Austin. Savio goes on to do the Nation stuff and the jobber stable but I truly believe he should have held the gold in 1995/1996.

    2. John Cena-Yeah Hogan never won a midcard title but Flair did and when Flair won the IC title I cried. It was awesome and it reminded me of 10 years prior when he was US champion having that great match with Eddie Guerrero. This solid top tier legend, a definite face on the Mt Rushmore of pro wrestling, doing the whole "workhorse" title routine-which Flair was basically the workhorse champion of the World. That's how I figure a Cena IC title run would have went. Just like his last US title run. Now if he won the IC title prior to being what he became, look at the talent. Raw had a great IC title scene for years and during this time, 2004-2005 I think Cena would have done very very well.

    3. Jake the Snake-We make that argument that he didn't need the belt but Honkey Tonk Man didn't need a fuckin year plus reign did he? Knowing what we know now, no, he didn't because it was all squashed in a matter of 48 seconds or some shit. Jake winning the title @ Mania would've been perfect.

    4. Matt Hardy-When everyone and their mom had an IC title run this guy was given forgettable Euro, Hardcore, and US title reigns. I'm totally blown away looking this up that he didn't win the IC title. Broken Matt as IC champion should have happened. I think it was always a timing issue though if I'm being realistic. He was rarely on the same brand as the belt but when he was it seemed like either he wasn't in a story that needed it or someone else had it for whatever reason. I think had he stayed on Raw in 2005 he would have been given a run with the title after the Edge feud. Edge was above the title but Matt really wasn't yet.

    5. Rick the Model Martel-Another "he didn't need it" and I'm not disagreeing with that but I also think he would've made a great champion. I wonder if post-Warrior it came down to The Model or Mr Perfect. Either one would have worked and if they went with Model, with a win over Tito in the finals, you end their feud and Perfect could have won it off Texas Tornado.

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    Main Eventer Jarrod1983's Avatar
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    1-2-3 Kid in 93/94 or X-Pac in 98/99. Take your pick or pick both.

    I'll think on this some more but instantly Waltman sprang to mind.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nash Diesel View Post
    ...We make that argument that he didn't need the belt but Honkey Tonk Man didn't need a fuckin year plus reign did he? Knowing what we know now, no, he didn't because it was all squashed in a matter of 48 seconds or some shit. ...
    Honkey Tonk Man is the greatest IC champion of all time. I nearly gave you neg rep for this comment alone. You're too young to recognize his talent.

    As for the thread topic, it's kind of telling that of the 5 you listed, only Jake the Snake is in the Hall of Fame. But all but one of the other three you listed do belong and hopefully will get there someday. I don't understand the beef McMahon has over Martel - probably has to do with Martel wanting to be paid like he deserved.

    Vega does not belong. He just wasn't that good.

    Cena regularly got to have nookie with the hotter Bella twin. He doesn't need anything else in his career.

    Jake didn't need a title. I recall him saying the following -
    Nah, I never needed one man. Why would I want to carry around a 10-pound belt around too? I’ve got a 100-pound snake, I got a trunk I carry it in, and I got my wrestling gear and clothes. I can’t carry nothing else. Some guys need to have a title just to make them a star, but I was already a star. I didn’t need a title to make my name.
    Matt will forever be remembered as a tag guy, so an IC title run just wouldn't have made sense.

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    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarrod1983 View Post
    1-2-3 Kid in 93/94 or X-Pac in 98/99. Take your pick or pick both.

    I'll think on this some more but instantly Waltman sprang to mind.
    He was my in my top 10.

    Quote Originally Posted by 3puppies View Post
    Honkey Tonk Man is the greatest IC champion of all time. I nearly gave you neg rep for this comment alone. You're too young to recognize his talent.

    As for the thread topic, it's kind of telling that of the 5 you listed, only Jake the Snake is in the Hall of Fame. But all but one of the other three you listed do belong and hopefully will get there someday. I don't understand the beef McMahon has over Martel - probably has to do with Martel wanting to be paid like he deserved.

    Vega does not belong. He just wasn't that good.

    Cena regularly got to have nookie with the hotter Bella twin. He doesn't need anything else in his career.

    Jake didn't need a title. I recall him saying the following -

    Matt will forever be remembered as a tag guy, so an IC title run just wouldn't have made sense.
    haha. Honky Tonk Man---is he the GOAT because of the length of his single reign or is he the GOAT because of the overall package? It seemed like the IC title made him, considering he never did anything worth a damn ever again..........I'm not that young, I'll be 39 in a few weeks and it's not like I can't read or watch old footage. He was the shit, but a year? Naw. He could have dropped it and still had the same "legendary" status.

    Like I said, I totally get the whole "I didn't need the title!" argument, I literally just made the argument that HTM ain't shit without that IC title reign which was basically him being carried by Steamboat, Jake, and Savage. Yeah I'd be the shit too if I had those 3 as my dance partners But Jake could have won it. I'm not saying his career isn't shit without it, not sure why you're taking that approach with my choices...which brings me to:

    John Cena. Again, I'm not even sure what you're trying to argue against that choice with saying the line about the Bellas.

    I think you're just too old to understand the reality that Matt Hardy isn't ONLY remembered for being a tag guy. Matt Hardy Version 1, the love triangle with Edge and Lita, his feuds with MVP and Jeff Hardy. Plus you have the Broken Matt Hardy stuff. To say an IC title reign never made sense is weird to me. When did it never make sense? He spent more times a singles guy in the WWF than he did a tag guy......So a European title reign made sense but not an IC?

    So because Jake is in the Hall of Fame that means what? How long did it take Bruno to get in the Hall of Fame? So if I made a list of people who never wore IC gold back in 2005 and had him on the list it'd be because he's not hall of fame worthy? What does that even mean? Undertaker's not in the Hall of Fame and I about put him on the list. Man you're way too old just make a top 5. lol.

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    Fuck you Roman... Tim's Avatar
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    Matt definitely should of been IC champ. I always saw a lot of mid card IC champion Bret Hart in him, during his singles run before he left WWE for TNA.

    I have no reasoning for this other then back in the early 2000s thinking that Raven should of been IC champ but I cant remember why other then because I liked him as US champ in WCW.

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    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim View Post
    Matt definitely should of been IC champ. I always saw a lot of mid card IC champion Bret Hart in him, during his singles run before he left WWE for TNA.

    I have no reasoning for this other then back in the early 2000s thinking that Raven should of been IC champ but I cant remember why other then because I liked him as US champ in WCW.
    Which lasted for a day and then Goldberg smashed him into a million pieces. Raven as IC champion would have been awesome but I know he was pumping a lot more drugs than usual into his system around this time. I think I heard Prichard say that Vince never really "got" the character and I know Bischoff never understood it-why would they these 2 fucks bump ACDC not Nirvana and Alice In Chains. They didn't understand the youth of that generation enough which is funny with Bischoff. He understood Nash and those guys acting like Tupac but didn't get Raven.....

    I bet if Tazz were 2" taller he would have been IC champion at Mania 2000.

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    Main Eventer Jarrod1983's Avatar
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    Savio had some babyface fire and would have made a great I-C champ. I want to say he got a pretty good pop when he almost beat Goldust for the IC title before the decision was reversed. Found this young Savio battling Abdullah and showing some of that fire.



    Raven as Intercontinental Champion would have been great. I enjoyed his Hardcore Title run. Always fun seeing what he would bring out in his shopping cart. Raven held his own against Kane and Big Show at WM that year and Raven vs Rhyno tore it down at Backlash 01. I got to think if Raven was given more opportunities he would have delivered.

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    Main Eventer Jarrod1983's Avatar
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    Brutus Beefcake probably should have held it. Struttin' and cuttin' was over in the late 80s, early 90s.

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    Fuck you Roman... Tim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nash Diesel View Post
    Which lasted for a day and then Goldberg smashed him into a million pieces. Raven as IC champion would have been awesome but I know he was pumping a lot more drugs than usual into his system around this time. I think I heard Prichard say that Vince never really "got" the character and I know Bischoff never understood it-why would they these 2 fucks bump ACDC not Nirvana and Alice In Chains. They didn't understand the youth of that generation enough which is funny with Bischoff. He understood Nash and those guys acting like Tupac but didn't get Raven.....

    I bet if Tazz were 2" taller he would have been IC champion at Mania 2000.
    Tazz was definitely held back by his size. I remember the vignettes for him and being excited even though I had never seen ECW and then he debut's and I'm like "Is this fire hydrant tall enough to ride a rollercoaster?" And his body wasn't impressive either and I lost interest in him faster than Vince probably did.

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    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarrod1983 View Post
    Brutus Beefcake probably should have held it. Struttin' and cuttin' was over in the late 80s, early 90s.
    He was supposed to be the one to beat HTM if I remember reading and hearing not just him but maybe Prichard.....That dude was super over.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim View Post
    Tazz was definitely held back by his size. I remember the vignettes for him and being excited even though I had never seen ECW and then he debut's and I'm like "Is this fire hydrant tall enough to ride a rollercoaster?" And his body wasn't impressive either and I lost interest in him faster than Vince probably did.
    lol. I can definitely understand that point of view if you'd never seen him prior to that match with Angle. Prior to that match with Angle he was wrestling guys the size of Bubba Ray Dudley who's legit 6'3-6'4" and about 350. Bigelow obviously was another big dude. I don't think Tazz v. Triple H looked that out of place but I get it. The lack of seeing him in ECW is what fucked Vince too. Dude was always billed at like 5'7", maybe shorter, and I mean his name is fucking Taz lol. That thing wasn't exactly 8ft tall.

    I actually heard he had a shit attitude at the start and people said that about him in ECW. That way of doing business doesn't fly for Vince especially when you're a small guy from a small promotion he's paying the bills for lol. He must have won people over eventually or he wouldn't have been at the booth forever.

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    #5. Matt Striker.
    #4. Finlay.
    #3. Robert Conway.
    #2. The Sandman.
    #1. Sting.

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    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WWXChairman View Post
    #5. Matt Striker.
    #4. Finlay.
    #3. Robert Conway.
    #2. The Sandman.
    #1. Sting.
    I remember reading something about Vince being a fan of both Sabu and The Sandman but they both royally fucked up behind the scenes so they were killed off. Sandman as IC champion would've been fucking sweet.

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    Splashin' on Gin & Juice Sasori's Avatar
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    Can't think of 5 right now, but off the top of my head:

    - Absolutely Matt. Maybe if he hadn't cut so much weight for the Cruiserweight division, lol.
    - Cesaro. Yeah, I know his career isn't over, but he's been stuck in the Tag scene forever. I doubt another singles title will come his way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 3puppies View Post

    Vega does not belong. He just wasn't that good.
    How dare you!

    Jarrod already pointed it out but Vega was babyface fire in that IC title match and it's a shame for the record books that IC title reign doesn't count because it was reversed. There was another time where he almost won a battle royal for a WWF title shot at Shawn but Goldust eliminated him last.

    Also Los Boricuas so should've beaten the Headbangers at One Night Only and got a small tag title run.

    Vega was a perfectly capable worker that played a small part in launching Stone Cold. He was the first Stunner victim.

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    Also Big Boss Man back in the day should have well had an IC title run.

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    Batista
    Jake the Snake Roberts
    Ted Dibiase
    Savio
    Model Rick Martel

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    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Romford Pele View Post
    Batista
    Jake the Snake Roberts
    Ted Dibiase
    Savio
    Model Rick Martel
    I thought 100% he was going to win the IC title in that triple threat match with Edge and Chris Jericho @ Summerslam 2004. You would've had Batista as IC champ and Orton as World champ. That would've been crazy.

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    GO ON LAD Fanny Batter's Avatar
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    I don't think anybody that has won the US title since 2003 should count, seeing as they've been parallel titles since then.

    For me, to say somebody should be a champion would be to suggest that the timelines that happened weren't good. Honestly it was a well booked title for a minute there so there aren't that many holes, but there have been some.

    1992. The Mountie can be replaced by any midcard heel at that point. I guess DiBiase could've had the transitional reign to boost his resume. Or Martel. Mountie was a bit lame so it's a shame he has it on the record and neither of that pair.

    1995. Anybody but Jarrett in the Jarrett role I would say, but the Michaels match was great. Owen was the alternative and he had it elsewhere. I just didn't rate country music Jeff as a top star and he devalued the title. Razor didn't need it from Dean Douglas. Either the 123 Kid wins it then transitions it to a Savio Vega before his heel turn, or Savio himself wins it. Drops to Goldust like it happened. Only argument there is that Goldust needed a name to beat for the title, but Razor's star had dimmed at that point and Vega could have done with the boost.

    1996. Farooq should have won the tournament. Another guy that lacked big wins out of the gate and never went on to main event. Argument here is Triple H doesn't get the first reign, but honestly it wasn't much of one anyway and he only really got over when Chyna came in. Ron drops it to Rocky thanks to Ahmed, still need that reign for Die, Rocky, Die.

    After Summerslam 98 until the title was retired, booking was all over the place but I can't think of anybody that should've had a reign that didn't. The weaker reigns (Val's second for example) can't really be replaced when the timeline would be negatively affected (in that case, the mixed tag leading to the fun Eddie/Chyna segments). X-Pac winning takes him out of the Kane angle which developed both men more than a transitional title reign would have. Every other fucker had it. I guess Stevie Richards could've had a minute with it but it wouldn't have meant anything given how much it switched.

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    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fanny Batter View Post
    I don't think anybody that has won the US title since 2003 should count, seeing as they've been parallel titles since then.

    For me, to say somebody should be a champion would be to suggest that the timelines that happened weren't good. Honestly it was a well booked title for a minute there so there aren't that many holes, but there have been some.

    1992. The Mountie can be replaced by any midcard heel at that point. I guess DiBiase could've had the transitional reign to boost his resume. Or Martel. Mountie was a bit lame so it's a shame he has it on the record and neither of that pair.

    1995. Anybody but Jarrett in the Jarrett role I would say, but the Michaels match was great. Owen was the alternative and he had it elsewhere. I just didn't rate country music Jeff as a top star and he devalued the title. Razor didn't need it from Dean Douglas. Either the 123 Kid wins it then transitions it to a Savio Vega before his heel turn, or Savio himself wins it. Drops to Goldust like it happened. Only argument there is that Goldust needed a name to beat for the title, but Razor's star had dimmed at that point and Vega could have done with the boost.

    1996. Farooq should have won the tournament. Another guy that lacked big wins out of the gate and never went on to main event. Argument here is Triple H doesn't get the first reign, but honestly it wasn't much of one anyway and he only really got over when Chyna came in. Ron drops it to Rocky thanks to Ahmed, still need that reign for Die, Rocky, Die.

    After Summerslam 98 until the title was retired, booking was all over the place but I can't think of anybody that should've had a reign that didn't. The weaker reigns (Val's second for example) can't really be replaced when the timeline would be negatively affected (in that case, the mixed tag leading to the fun Eddie/Chyna segments). X-Pac winning takes him out of the Kane angle which developed both men more than a transitional title reign would have. Every other fucker had it. I guess Stevie Richards could've had a minute with it but it wouldn't have meant anything given how much it switched.
    Great read. The only issue I take is that it sounds like you were 100% happy with every booking decision made since you've been watching wrestling. MAYBE it would've had a negative effect on certain angles and pushes, but I also believe it would've made certain angles better or possibly not exist that had no reason to exist in the first place.

    So if you were cool with every choice they made, I support that. But for me I look back and fantasy book what could've been better, what could've made a character more important and even the title more important. Like you said, it was getting booked all over the place and people who didn't need it were wearing it or had a weird reign with a weird storyline. Like you talked about with Farooq, the same could be said if we go "Maybe Billy The One Gun didn't need an IC title reign but TAZZ could have" I don't fuckin know lol.

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    I'll be first to say undertaker. Not that he needed it

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nash Diesel View Post
    I remember reading something about Vince being a fan of both Sabu and The Sandman but they both royally fucked up behind the scenes so they were killed off. Sandman as IC champion would've been fucking sweet.
    Do you have a source on that? This is the first I have ever heard Vince actually supporting any ECW guys in any capacity outside of WWECW. This is what I use WWE games for, outlandish champions that never had a chance of happening in real life. Sandman, Chris Masters, Carlito, Daivari, and Hardcore Holly all going back and forth over the IC Title in the summer of 2008 would have been fantastic.

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    Main Eventer chatty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3puppies View Post
    Honkey Tonk Man is the greatest IC champion of all time. I nearly gave you neg rep for this comment alone. You're too young to recognize his talent.

    As for the thread topic, it's kind of telling that of the 5 you listed, only Jake the Snake is in the Hall of Fame. But all but one of the other three you listed do belong and hopefully will get there someday. I don't understand the beef McMahon has over Martel - probably has to do with Martel wanting to be paid like he deserved.

    Vega does not belong. He just wasn't that good.

    Cena regularly got to have nookie with the hotter Bella twin. He doesn't need anything else in his career.

    Jake didn't need a title. I recall him saying the following -

    Matt will forever be remembered as a tag guy, so an IC title run just wouldn't have made sense.
    Think Martel turned his back on wrestling and wants nothing to do with it anymore, sure I read or saw that somewhere. Possibly the Dino Bravo episode of Dark Side of the Ring.

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    Main Eventer chatty's Avatar
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    Id add Dynamite Kid though itd be hard to see when considering he was a tag team wrestler the whole time he was there and his terrible attitude probably wrote him off from any big push but more so for his wrestling ability, he could have been a great workmans champions in the early 90s.

    Probably size goes against him as well but if he had managed to last till 1990 when Warrior dropped the belt then he could have went solo and been in the mix with Bret, Mr Perfect, Piper, Michaels, Janetty, Davey Boy, Tito, Martel, Tatanka in the next few years.

    Couldnhave had some outstanding matches. TBF he wouldnt even need to win it, just hanging around ahould have saw him in that scene of mud carders.

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    Main Eventer Jarrod1983's Avatar
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    If Dynamite had stuck around then 100% could have had a reign.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarrod1983 View Post
    I'll think on this some more but instantly Waltman sprang to mind.
    He was all over the map after his debut. Even competing for the WWF Championship very early on, and Razor was heavily involved with the Intercontinental Championship. It is truly surprising that he never got there.

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    Legend Badger's Avatar
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    Turning Razor back heel in 94-95 as IC Champ and having 1-2-3 Kid beat him
    for the title would’ve have been the hairy bollocks! (ie good for the non-Scots).

    Heel Razor against Kid was magic. It didn’t work the other way.

    Actually given me a wee thread idea for him.
    Last edited by Badger; November 27th, 2020 at 11:55 PM.

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    I disagree.
    Heel Kid vs Face Razor would have been great.

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    Legend Badger's Avatar
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    Well they did reverse roles but IMO didn’t quite capture the magic of their first encounter.

    It was an okay match and all but preferred Kid with that baby face fire.
    Last edited by Badger; November 28th, 2020 at 10:45 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 3puppies View Post
    Vega does not belong. He just wasn't that good.
    False. I think that's something that The Kliq tried to popularize.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WWXChairman View Post
    False. I think that's something that The Kliq tried to popularize.
    Just to be clear, do you really believe that Savio Vega should be in the Hall of Fame? I think of him more like a D'Lo Brown or an Iron Mike Sharpe.


    But in the spirit of this thread, I looked back and I am kind of surprised that Sgt Slaughter never won the IC title. He's a guy who really didn't need it as his gimmick was tremendous, he understood how to get heel heat as well as anyone. His promo ability was top notch, but I always felt his WWE title reign was "forced" and suffered from his never having a "lesser" title before it.

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    Main Eventer Jarrod1983's Avatar
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    Savio Vega more than deserves his spot in the Hall of Fame.

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    Yep he'd fit in right next to Koko B. Ware.

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    Main Eventer Jarrod1983's Avatar
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    Savio and Koko were more popular back then than someone in their position on the WWE roster right now.

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    World Champion Donald's Avatar
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    Agreed. I'd rather watch a Koko or Savio match than 99% of matches these days.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarrod1983 View Post
    Savio and Koko were more popular back then than someone in their position on the WWE roster right now.
    Exactly.

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    That only speaks to the quality of the product now. Does Hardcore Holly belong in the Hall of Fame? Al Snow? Albert? Their careers were all much better than Savio Vega's.

    Call if the Hall of Everyone if you like. Sure, more people watching may mean they were more famous than today's stars, but it doesn't make them better, Chad Gable is a better wrestler than many on the roster today, but he sure doesn't look like he's heading to the Hall of Fame.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 3puppies View Post
    Just to be clear, do you really believe that Savio Vega should be in the Hall of Fame? I think of him more like a D'Lo Brown or an Iron Mike Sharpe.
    He's had some good highlights, so sure why not? He holds a victory over Stone Cold.

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    Main Eventer Jarrod1983's Avatar
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    Hardcore Holly gets a super heavyweight yes from me.

    Savio was a huge part of making those heels look good on arrival. Savio got people like Austin and Goldust ready for bigger rivals.

    Savio was doing The People's Eyebrow before Rock made it cool.



    Plus he always had those crazy hair cuts. That says Savio and WWF if you can't tell.



    Aaaaaaaand, as Kwang, he was the first person I ever saw spit The Mist. I thought that was awesome and might have made me the only Kwang fan out there.

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    Top Hulkamaniac Bluegunn's Avatar
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    quite a few of these names have not even won any titles. let alone the IC title

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nash Diesel View Post
    It seemed like the IC title made him, considering he never did anything worth a damn ever again..........
    He defeated Santino Marella when Santino was Intercontinental Champion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WWXChairman View Post
    He defeated Santino Marella when Santino was Intercontinental Champion.
    "considering he never did anything worth a damn ever again"

    Santino is one of the worst IC champions in the history of the company. Both reigns were fucking terrible. His 2nd reign he won by default in a weird mixed-tag match.

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    Main Eventer Jarrod1983's Avatar
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    The Honk-a-Meter was pretty awesome though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarrod1983 View Post
    The Honk-a-Meter was pretty awesome though.
    Naw. It just pissed me off. Not as part of the show, but me legit thinking fuck, they're going to have this idiot break the record because they do that kind of shit. Especially now, especially when it's talent they have issues with outside the company. All I thought about was how we were going to have to sit through a year plus of this shit wrestler and his comedy aimed at 7 year olds.

    Santino, Hornswoggle, and Kiss Cam Khali are 3 reasons I started to really dip out of wrestling. Especially Hornswoggle.

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    Main Eventer Jarrod1983's Avatar
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    Probably my height of enjoyment for Santino. Didn’t really do much for me before or after.

    I didn't think he'd break the record but did think he was in line for a long reign. It ended quick though, like 3 weeks or so wasn't it, which was a surprise.

    I liked the idea of Finlay throwing around Little Bastard after he'd interfere but once Hornswoggle became his name that haulted any enjoyment.

    Kiss Cam Khali was the Green shit drizzles.

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    Finlay would have been a good I-C champion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nash Diesel View Post
    Santino is one of the worst IC champions in the history of the company.
    This is all opinion. Honky Tonk Man has a win on record over a reigning I-C Champion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WWXChairman View Post
    This is all opinion. Honky Tonk Man has a win on record over a reigning I-C Champion.
    lol. Ok? I don't get the point? He beat the worst IC champion of all time. Maybe if he won the title at his old age and not in some comedy spot, sure but HTM never did anything before or after that year long reign that mattered. I guess maybe if it wasn't for him there'd be no New Age Outlawz....

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    Main Eventer Jarrod1983's Avatar
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    I always thought of Albert's 3-4 week reign as the worst.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nash Diesel View Post
    He beat the worst IC champion of all time.
    Yeah once again you saying this means literally nothing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WWXChairman View Post
    Yeah once again you saying this means literally nothing.
    Well if opinions don't matter then we all might as well delete our accounts.....

    You putting worth into HTM beating Santino is all subjective. There is nothing factual.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarrod1983 View Post
    I always thought of Albert's 3-4 week reign as the worst.
    It's up there. It's all subjective.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarrod1983 View Post
    I always thought of Albert's 3-4 week reign as the worst.
    I thought Shinsuke Nakamura's 210 day reign that included only 3 title defenses was the worst. But even though I like Shinsuke and think he was terribly booked, I am an Albert fan. Who else could get fans to chant "Shave your back!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by 3puppies View Post
    I thought Shinsuke Nakamura's 210 day reign that included only 3 title defenses was the worst. But even though I like Shinsuke and think he was terribly booked, I am an Albert fan. Who else could get fans to chant "Shave your back!"
    Killian Dain.

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    Xpac.

    the only DX member to not hold it. Even stupid a-train got a fucking run during the attitude era, but xpac couldn’t? Bullshit

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nash Diesel View Post
    There is nothing factual.
    The fact is that he defeated Santino. Nothing you can say will invalidate that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 3puppies View Post
    I thought Shinsuke Nakamura's 210 day reign that included only 3 title defenses was the worst. But even though I like Shinsuke and think he was terribly booked, I am an Albert fan. Who else could get fans to chant "Shave your back!"
    George "The Animal" Steele maybe. Hairy back was there, not sure if the fans did though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WWXChairman View Post
    The fact is that he defeated Santino. Nothing you can say will invalidate that.
    But you're saying that by him defeating Santino that means he's done shit....That's the subjective part. You're value of Santino is not the same as mine. Wow, he won the IC title. And? The belt doesn't make the man in this case. The IC title was a comedy prop.
    Last edited by Nash Diesel; December 3rd, 2020 at 12:40 PM.

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    His miracle Milan debut IC title win against Umaga was amazing.

    I reckon they could have pushed Santino as a legitimate ass kicking machine if they wanted to given his MMA thing but they saw his personality and put him in his comedy niche and stuck to it. Maybe not everyone's cup of tea but it was over and I enjoyed it, like his short mini program with Austin. Still get the Condemned song in my head from time to time.

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    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badger View Post
    His miracle Milan debut IC title win against Umaga was amazing.

    I reckon they could have pushed Santino as a legitimate ass kicking machine if they wanted to given his MMA thing but they saw his personality and put him in his comedy niche and stuck to it. Maybe not everyone's cup of tea but it was over and I enjoyed it, like his short mini program with Austin. Still get the Condemned song in my head from time to time.
    I'm sure some thought it was amazing.

    The problem is that Santino was a terrible wrestler. He looked like shit, sure in real life I'm sure he could handle the Jim Cornette's of the world in a fight. I've just never been a big fan of comedy in wrestling especially to the extent we've seen since The Rock hosted SNL. Santino was a comedy jobber. His IC and US title reigns matter about as much as Vince McMahon winning the ECW title.

    The fact Santino had an IC title run yet some of the names we've mentioned haven't is all you need to know when it comes to why people don't respect the IC or the US title like they have in the past. Why? Because the WWE started using these titles to try and get over shit wrestlers more often than not. That's why these titles only seem to matter when a main eventer has them.

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    Jake the Snake Roberts
    The Million Dollar Man Ted Dibiase
    Savio Vega
    The Model Rick Martel
    The Big Boss Man

    All would’ve been perfect. Big Boss man should’ve won it from The Mountie. BBM was so over as a popular baby face. Jake should’ve had runs as baby and heel. Him and The Model should’ve feuded over it. Ted Dibiase anytime during his run and Savio was the perfect heel for an up and coming face to beat him for it.

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    1-2-3 kid when Shawn had it, could’ve been a nice feud over it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nash Diesel View Post
    That's the subjective part.
    No, not really. I hate to break it to you, but nobody really puts much faith in your opinion of Santino or your evaluation of the IC Belt. You saying those things does not make them true, and in the setting of WWE that was definitely an undeniably big win.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WWXChairman View Post
    No, not really. I hate to break it to you, but nobody really puts much faith in your opinion of Santino or your evaluation of the IC Belt. You saying those things does not make them true, and in the setting of WWE that was definitely an undeniably big win.
    Unlike you I don't seek validation in this discussion. Keep in mind who's posting in who's thread. And the fact you keep replying shows you do in fact care about my opinion. It's not about true or false. You're more than welcome to have your opinion.

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    You wish I needed validation from you. If anything you're seeking validation, look at how personally you're taking this. I posted in the thread I didn't, and still don't care, whose thread it is. Interesting that you feel like pointing out that this is your thread means anything because once again it does not. I keep replying because I have a point to make or really any number of other things. This seems to be a running theme with you, you take one thing form a conclusion based on that and act like what you came up with is fact. It's not, something is not a fact just because you came up with a tangentially related conclusion.

    Of course both of us are more than welcome to have our own opinion, that goes without saying. I apologize if you somehow got the feeling that I didn't feel that way.
    Last edited by WWXChairman; December 4th, 2020 at 10:57 AM.

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    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WWXChairman View Post
    You wish I needed validation from you. If anything you're seeking validation, look at how personally you're taking this. I posted in the thread I didn't, and still don't care, whose thread it is. Interesting that you feel like pointing out that this is your thread means anything because once again it does not. I keep replying because I have a point to make or really any number of other things. This seems to be a running theme with you, you take one thing form a conclusion based on that and act like what you came up with is fact. It's not, something is not a fact just because you came up with a tangentially related conclusion.

    Of course both of us are more than welcome to have our own opinion, that goes without saying. I apologize if you somehow got the feeling that I didn't feel that way.
    I'm not taking anything personally but you're welcome to digest my posts that way.

    You're not making any point. Your point is simply HTM beat Santino=HTM has done shit since losing the IC title. I disagree but you keep responding lol. If anyone is taking it personal it's you lol.

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    I see you've decided to just go ahead and post complete nonsense.

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    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Scott View Post
    Jake the Snake Roberts
    The Million Dollar Man Ted Dibiase
    Savio Vega
    The Model Rick Martel
    The Big Boss Man

    All would’ve been perfect. Big Boss man should’ve won it from The Mountie. BBM was so over as a popular baby face. Jake should’ve had runs as baby and heel. Him and The Model should’ve feuded over it. Ted Dibiase anytime during his run and Savio was the perfect heel for an up and coming face to beat him for it.
    I agree with all of this. Especially the part about HEEL Savio as the champ. That's very interesting when looking back when they made him HBK's replacement in that 8-man tag. It was so underwhelming because by that time he was barely a midcarder. With a little gold, even tag gold, in his history, that might have been a good replacement.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Scott View Post
    1-2-3 kid when Shawn had it, could’ve been a nice feud over it.
    Heel 123 Kid taking the belt off HBK would have been HUGE for Kid's career. Maybe they would have finally changed his fucking name.

  68. #68
    Legend Badger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WWXChairman View Post
    You wish I needed validation from you. If anything you're seeking validation, look at how personally you're taking this. I posted in the thread I didn't, and still don't care, whose thread it is. Interesting that you feel like pointing out that this is your thread means anything because once again it does not. I keep replying because I have a point to make or really any number of other things. This seems to be a running theme with you, you take one thing form a conclusion based on that and act like what you came up with is fact. It's not, something is not a fact just because you came up with a tangentially related conclusion.

    Of course both of us are more than welcome to have our own opinion, that goes without saying. I apologize if you somehow got the feeling that I didn't feel that way.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nash Diesel View Post
    I'm not taking anything personally but you're welcome to digest my posts that way.

    You're not making any point. Your point is simply HTM beat Santino=HTM has done shit since losing the IC title. I disagree but you keep responding lol. If anyone is taking it personal it's you lol.
    Quote Originally Posted by WWXChairman View Post
    I see you've decided to just go ahead and post complete nonsense.
    @Mazer

    Wilfred’s first round grudge match for next tournament.

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    No, thank you.

  70. #70
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badger View Post
    @Mazer

    Wilfred’s first round grudge match for next tournament.
    lol. They are too busy running WWX they don't have time for little ol' Nash.

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by WWXChairman View Post
    No, thank you.
    So you have no problem bumping old topics to generate discussion yet won’t step up in the present or the future lol.

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    Those aren't really comparable.

  73. #73
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    Dude you really need to tell the difference when someone is joking or not (ie I was joking). Zero banter.

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    Your joking needs serious work then. That was really bad.

  75. #75
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    Well duh. Hi I’m Badger how you doin? That’s what I do.

    I don’t agree with Nash on many things but you should prob lighten up a tad. His lengthy posts are a thing and he takes this less seriously than you seem to do.

    Just a friendly observation.

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    Again no thanks. If I have to figure out all of your quirks in order for you to properly hold a conversation, that's your problem not mine.

  77. #77
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    Last piece of advice which will you will probably leave. Don’t react or take Nash’s things so to heart. Best to leave it be. He hates comedy wrestling, hates comedy. Let it wash.

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    Sure I'll do that.

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    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    I am a little shocked Bray Wyatt hasn't won the IC title yet. Probably won't now but who knows.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim View Post
    Matt definitely should of been IC champ.
    Kurt Angle gave him a shot at the championship recently when he was General Manager. I'm happy he at least got a match with the title on the line.

  81. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nash Diesel View Post
    I agree with all of this. Especially the part about HEEL Savio as the champ. That's very interesting when looking back when they made him HBK's replacement in that 8-man tag. It was so underwhelming because by that time he was barely a midcarder. With a little gold, even tag gold, in his history, that might have been a good replacement.



    Heel 123 Kid taking the belt off HBK would have been HUGE for Kid's career. Maybe they would have finally changed his fucking name.

    Yes. Instead he strangely turned heel as Razor turned face and then Kid joined the Million Dollar Corporation didn’t he?

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    Totally forgot Matt Hardy never won it. Deserved too.

    Another one who deserved to and was so over was Tatanka. Another wrestler who they missed the ball on (remember his first loss to Ludvig) I know Shawn was the company’s main mid card heel, but Mania 9 could’ve been perfect for Tatanka and a feud over the title to follow. Another waste him joining the Million Dollar Corporation.

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    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Scott View Post
    Yes. Instead he strangely turned heel as Razor turned face and then Kid joined the Million Dollar Corporation didn’t he?
    Yep. Started rockin the purple gear teaming with Sid. I'm almost positive they didn't change his name simply because 123 Kid and Sid rhymed lol.

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    Main Eventer Jarrod1983's Avatar
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    Sid and The Kid! It's such good shit pal!

    Legitimately I remember 12 year old me thinking he's a bad guy now but that name and his stature doesn't strike fear in me like some did back then. Then he started that cry baby gimmick. Heel run was over before it even started.

    They could have at least called him The Million Dollar Kid. Dibiase is his manager. Million Dollar Title could have went to Kid instead of Austin and they could have done all sorts of rich bratty teen vignettes with him. How much do you hate rich, privileged brats on TV or even in real life. They could have built some good heat with this but instead they pissed it away.

  85. #85
    Top Hulkamaniac Bluegunn's Avatar
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    Had he not passed away I think Brian Pillman could have been IC champ.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluegunn View Post
    Had he not passed away I think Brian Pillman could have been IC champ.
    The way they treated the guy on the way in I thought they were going to put the World title on him. That was the first time I ever saw the WWF do a press conference about signing someone. And not to knock the guy but it was just Brian Pillman. A midcarder from WCW. They must have thought very fucking highly of this guy's talent.

  87. #87
    Main Eventer Jarrod1983's Avatar
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    JR was selling Pillman backstage then like he sells BBQ now I'm sure. Brian did have some buzz back then.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarrod1983 View Post
    Savio had some babyface fire and would have made a great I-C champ.
    He had multiple shots at it. They built him up as a legitimate contender. It is definitely not out of the realm of possibility that he would have had a good run.

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    Hulk Hogan

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    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caito View Post
    Hulk Hogan
    That's an interesting choice because he personifies the "man makes the belt" saying and I think this man is so far beyond the IC title. It's hard for me to think of a time where a Hogan IC title run made sense. He never had that traditional climb where even a guy like Flair held the US title before being World champion. When Flair won the IC title it didn't feel as weird as it did when he won the US title in 1995. He really wasn't "RIC FLAIR" anymore because he had already been watered down by returning and not returning as a World title contender like Hogan did.

    Fantasy booking it would have to be when he returned in the early 2000's. Maybe one of those Summerslam paydays could have been him winning the IC title from Orton in 2004 then drop it back or fuckin vacate it the next night I don't know. Orton working with The Rock, Mick Foley, and Hulk Hogan in a 5 month span might have put him in a better position to win the World title @ Mania 21 instead of Batista or Cena. Crazy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarrod1983 View Post
    Brutus Beefcake probably should have held it.
    He was actually set to become champion twice. He was scheduled to defeat Honky Tonk Man when Ultimate Warrior won the title the first time, and again against Mr. Perfect but he suffered a parasailing accident that kept him out of the ring.

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    Main Eventer Jarrod1983's Avatar
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    Yes, why he probably should have held it. Guy had some horrid luck with that parasailing accident.

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    He would have held it. He just was not able to compete when it was his time.

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    Main Eventer Jarrod1983's Avatar
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    Yes I know Beefcake's history. Unfortunately Brutus didn't capture that title. Hence he makes the list and why I said he probably should have. Just because he didn't win on those occasions doesn't mean they couldn't have given him a day or 2 reign when struttin and cuttin was over either.

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    I believe it comes down to a similar situation as with the Hall of Fame. They wanted to give it to other people before him and then, unfortunately, time just ran out on the issue. Notably, that I did not point out yet, he was also slated to win the championship when Rick Rude won it.

  96. #96
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarrod1983 View Post
    Yes I know Beefcake's history. Unfortunately Brutus didn't capture that title. Hence he makes the list and why I said he probably should have. Just because he didn't win on those occasions doesn't mean they couldn't have given him a day or 2 reign when struttin and cuttin was over either.
    You're using Attitude Era mentality there though. It was so rare for these type of title runs to occur during this era especially with the IC title. I remember I was blown away when they did the swap between Perfect and Texas Tornado. Tornado had a very short reign and I believe that was when Brutus was supposed to win a 2nd time but I could be wrong. I never actually heard he was going to beat Mr. Perfect for the title but I'm sure it was discussed.

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    Main Eventer Jarrod1983's Avatar
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    Yes swapping any title back then was more rare than it became for sure.

    I would say once he missed his SS90 window after the injury he wouldn't be in the discussion. He had about 3 years to 3 and a half years where they could have found him a reign if they really wanted to. I'm thinking of after WMIII through SS90 time frame. Just never seemed to happen.

    Can't really blame Vince for switching to Warrior if Beefcake was to beat HTM at SS88. That seemed to be the right move for Warrior. Once Warrior got a hold of it, he pretty much a solid grip on it. The way Rude beat Warrior, you knew Warrior would be getting a return match and probably reclaiming the title. Like I said it just never seemed to happen for Brutus.
    Last edited by Jarrod1983; December 13th, 2020 at 10:27 PM.

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    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarrod1983 View Post
    Yes swapping any title back then was more rare than it became for sure.

    I would say once he missed his SS90 window after the injury he wouldn't be in the discussion. He had about 3 years to 3 and a half years where they could have found him a reign if they really wanted to. I'm thinking of after WMIII through SS90 time frame. Just never seemed to happen.

    Can't really blame Vince for switching to Warrior if Beefcake was to beat HTM at SS88. That seemed to be the right move for Warrior. Once Warrior got a hold of it, he pretty much a solid grip on it. The way Rude beat Warrior, you knew Warrior would be getting a return match and probably reclaiming the title. Like I said it just never seemed to happen for Brutus.
    Take this for what it's worth but SUPPOSEDLY Beefcake says he was originally going to win the title prior to HTM but they went with HTM so after the long run Beefcakes victory would mean more. And then a 3rd time was apparently going to be at Summerslam 1990 but then he almost died.

    I still stand by the fact that HTM didn't need a year plus long reign I don't care what era it was. You could have slid in a Beefcake or Jake the Snake run in there for 4-5 months and made a shit ton of money.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim View Post
    Tazz was definitely held back by his size.
    He was billed as a technical submission expert. He did not need size.

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    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    To take this conversation a slightly different route....how about Konnan? What if he leaves WCW after the Filthy Animals ran their course or maybe even earlier when he was done with the nWo stuff and wins that belt?

    Shit he might've been a good grab in 1995-1996. He had a great look, the Hogan of Mexico during this time so who knows what direction they would have gone. This is all taking out the Max Moon shit.

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