Rajah's Greatest Ballers of All-Time List

[Percussion]

With LeBron fresh off his 4th, with all the talk in the NBA thread - and nationwide for that matter - about who's the GOAT it's high time we decide for ourselves who belongs where.

Number 1 may be a lock, but 2-10 etc should be a ton of fun. And are we maybe, just maayyybbbeee that much closer number 1 being not so for sure?

Everyone can pm me their best of all time list starting asap, and we'll give it a little time before a deadline is set.

The more the merry for both participants and listed candidates. A top 20 is preferable to get a more substantive final list, but I won't quibble over a top 10 or so.

[Percussion]

A convenient template grouping..

[Honey_Badger]

Larry Bird should be in tier 2, but that's pretty legit.

[Fro]

https://twitter.com/espngreeny/statu...209564672?s=21

[Percussion]

Great argument.

[Chris Scott]

Sent list

[3puppies]

Sent my list in. Its so tough to compare players from different eras as the rules have changed, but also how tight they call the game. Also, how do we value individual accomplishments vs. doing whatever is needed to help the team win. Do we value mostly their best years, or their whole career? What supporting cast(s) did they play with / make better? To whatever extent do we consider intangibles / off the court stuff (Jordan's gambling problems, Chamberlain's 20,000 women etc, Kobe's tragic death etc.)

The one thing that I am confident about is that if I tried to come up with a list again, I would undoubtedly come up with different rankings.

[Fro]

I will get my list in soonish

[Kdestiny]

Planning on finishing mine up over the weekend

[Percussion]

Handful of lists in thus far and I can give away that there will not be a unanimous number 1 overall.

[Percussion]

@kdestiny
@Fro
@Jimmy Zero
@Matthew
@PurePlayer
@hithit
@BGMaverick
@Kneeneighbor
@_me
@Morrison
@Honey_Badger
@Randolph
@Rancid_Planet

..just figure I'll take one more stab at this before calling it in.

[_me]

@kdestiny
@Fro
@Jimmy Zero
@Matthew
@PurePlayer
@hithit
@BGMaverick
@Kneeneighbor
@_me
@Morrison
@Honey_Badger
@Randolph
@Rancid_Planet

..just figure I'll take one more stab at this before calling it in.

I will get it done this afternoon. I just need to figure out where to slot the active players (Steph and KD seem like the only two that will make it outside LBJ) but just want to double check I didn't forget anyone.

[Kdestiny]

Totally forgot.

Will work on this later today.

[Fro]

ditto, sorry perc to make you poke people but I do plan to get this in by this weekend

[Percussion]

[hithit]

I’ll get you a list shortly

[Randolph]

Just sent mine

[Chris Scott]

How many list have been sent in now?

[Percussion]

9

[Mr. Boombastic]

Sent my list

[Tyson]

Submitted

[TimeSplitter]

I submitted mine a while back. Eager to see how this looks.

[Chris Scott]

Exciting

- - - Updated - - -

If KOBE isn’t number 1...WE RIOT

[Pablo Diablo]

Guess you're rioting.

[Kdestiny]

And by we, it might only be you CS

[Percussion]

Spoiler alert.. get your riot gear ready Chris..

Up to 12 lists now total. Few more would be great, and with a few coming in the last couple days I'll give it at least until this weekend to perhaps begin counting down..

[Dreyski]

List sent. Should be interesting.

[CWE]

Sent in my list. No current players on it. And Jordan at #2.

[Pablo Diablo]

Now that's a hot take.

[Kdestiny]

[Fro]

@Percussion

[Matthew]

i am not good at ordering things i cannot do this

[Percussion]

@Percussion

So a combination of being a bit busy and hoping for another list or two has got me sidetracked on this. My bad to those who've contributed.

Will go ahead and put a final tally to things and have the the 20th best baller of all time ready for reveal sometime today or no later than tomorrow for certain.

[Fro]

all good. no huge rush, if there's any stragglers who expressed interest but haven't submitted yet, might as well give them another nudge. I know how it goes with these lists - the more submissions the more filled out the group list gets.

[Percussion]

Thanks to..

@Chris Scott
@3puppies
@Mazer
@Pablo Diablo
@TimeSplitter
@kdestiny
@hithit
@Randolph
@Mr. Boombastic
@Fro
@Tyson
@Stan Accy
@CWE

..for their contributions to the Rajah's Greatest Ballers of All-Time List

And so without further ado..

[Percussion]

#20

Charles Barkley

Born: February 20, 1963
Years Active: 1984-2000
Height: 6'6 Weight: 252
College: Auburn University
Position: Power Forward
Career Stats: 22.1 ppg, 11.7 rpg, 3.9 apg, 1.5 spg, .8 bpg, .541 fgp, .266 3pp, .735 ftp
11x All-Star, 5x All-NBA 1st Team, NBA All-Rookie 1st Team, 1x Rebounding Leader, 1x NBA MVP, HoF

Points: 36
Votes: 8
Ranked Highest by: Stan Accy (11th)

[Randolph]

That's nuts he's that low.

[Pablo Diablo]

Definitely hurt by never getting a ring.

Probably also hurt by how he's become a bit of comic relief in his post playing career.

[Fro]

He wasn't on my list. An oversight, perhaps. I think #20 is a fair spot for him, but we'll see who makes it above him.

I don't think his post playing career has anything to do with it. His success as a broadcaster only makes him more relevant IMO.

[KayBur]

Sent my list in. Its so tough to compare players from different eras as the rules have changed, but also how tight they call the game. Also, how do we value individual accomplishments vs. doing whatever is needed to help the team win. Do we value mostly their best years, or their whole career? What supporting cast(s) did they play with / make better? To whatever extent do we consider intangibles / off the court stuff (Jordan's gambling problems, Chamberlain's 20,000 women etc, Kobe's tragic death etc.)

The one thing that I am confident about is that if I tried to come up with a list again, I would undoubtedly come up with different rankings.

Good questions. It seems to me that even for each of them, you can make a separate top. Who has the most successful career in general, who was cooler at the peak of their form, who earned the most points, who made the most spectacular shots, whom we value not only as an athlete, but also as a person. Let's not forget about social activities and charity. Because athletes are the people that millions look up to. And who, no matter how idols, should show us an example of worthy behavior?

[3puppies]

That's nuts he's that low.

You could have added, in a trademark Barkley drawl...."That's Turrible!"

[Percussion]

#19

Dirk Nowitzki

Born: June 19, 1978
Years Active: 1998-2019
Height: 7'0 Weight: 245
Prior to NBA: DJK Würzburg
Position: Power Forward
Career Stats: 20.7 ppg, 7.5 rpg, 2.4 apg, .8 spg, .8 bpg, .471 fgp, .380 3pp, .879 ftp
14x All-Star, 4x All-NBA 1st Team, 50-40-90 Club, 1x NBA MVP, 1x NBA Champion, 1x NBA Finals MVP

Points: 37
Votes: 7
Ranked Highest by: Stan Accy (12th)

[3puppies]

I love Dirk, but there's clearly a recency bias around here as more than half of y'all included him in your top 20.

[Pablo Diablo]

His performance in the 2011 Finals alone earns him this spot.

Sure he may not have a ton of MVPs, but that's because he was beat by people who I'm sure will be placing much higher on this list.

[Fro]

Dirk was not on my list. So who is better between Dirk and Charles?

[Pablo Diablo]

I had Dirk 18 and Barkley 19.

Could have had them switched on a different day.

I think recency bias probably plays a role in why Dirk is above Barkley. But looking at the stats now probably should have put Barkley above.

[Percussion]

I love Dirk, but there's clearly a recency bias around here as more than half of y'all included him in your top 20.

Bro you have Kawhi, Harden, and Russell Westbrook on your list.

I didn't have Dirk myself, but like Pablo said he had a postseason no less valuable than anything the three of them have done.

[Kdestiny]

His performance in the 2011 Finals alone earns him this spot.

Sure he may not have a ton of MVPs, but that's because he was beat by people who I'm sure will be placing much higher on this list.

Exactly. His Finals performance that season was LEGENDARY and with it coming against the first modern super team makes it that much better.

[Dreyski]

Slightly interesting I placed both Barkley and Nowitzky highest - suggests I made a cock-up further down the line.

[CWE]

Barkley wouldn't have made my top 30.

[Mazer]

Barkley wouldn't have made my top 30.

Did Bill?

[CWE]

Did Bill?

Barely misses my top 5.

[Mazer]

I had him at 5

[Percussion]

#18

Kevin Durant

Born: September 29, 1988
Years Active: 2007-present
Height: 6'10 Weight: 240
College: University of Texas
Position: Forward
Career Stats: 27 ppg, 7.1 rpg, 4.1 apg, 1.1 spg, 1.1 bpg, .493 fgp, .381 3pp, .883 ftp
10x All-Star, 6x All-NBA 1st Team, NBA RoY, All-Rookie 1st Team, 50-40-90 Club, 4x NBA Scoring Champ, 1x NBA MVP, 2x NBA Champion, 2x NBA Finals MVP

Points: 40
Votes: 7
Ranked Highest by: Fro (11th)

[Fro]

Kevin Durant is a monster on the court. I would say he is underrated here. A complete freak of nature designed by God to play basketball.

[Percussion]

I had him 16th so I can't argue with this spot really. I agree in terms of his scoring ability he's all that you said there. Literally appears designed to put a basketball in the hoop nearly at will.

But I think there are still questions from some about what would have been had he not gone to GS. It wasn't the best look to many and if you wipe the 2 rings and 2 Finals MVPs off his resume does he still keep such a lofty ranking overall? It's worth at least some consideration.

[Pablo Diablo]

I had him 15th and below Curry.

He is a great scorer. He's also not awful on D. I definitely think part of why I ranked him where I did is similar to Percussion. The hardest road.

[Fro]

Durant vs Curry is an interesting debate. I had Durant higher. Curry's career is certainly more admirable (staying with 1 team and leading them to a title and then a dynasty), and that certainly counts for a lot, but if I'm drafting my team I'm taking Durant over Curry.

[Pablo Diablo]

We'll save that debate for when Curry gets revealed.

Durant is very good. I hedged against recency bias when making my list somewhat (for the most part) and only included 3 active players, of which he was the lowest ranked on my list. So I definitely don't think he's a slouch, just thinking all time I think 15 is a good place for him.

[Mazer]

I think sometimes people sleep on what Curry did before Durant got there.

[CWE]

Durant and Curry will both almost be guaranteed to make my list when they retire. But my list is full of Hall of Famers already. I hate rating players before I see their full body of work.

[Chris Scott]

I had Barkley 19th, Dirk 17th & Durrant 20th

[3puppies]

I looked back on my list and am surprised I don't have KD on there. He probably belongs.

[Honey_Badger]

I love Dirk. He is one of, if not my all-time, favorite player in NBA history.

I was playing high school basketball when he was ascending to his greatness. I remember trying to model my jump shot after his, touching the legs together when releasing. He is the reason I'm a Dallas Mavs fan.

Dirk said, Big 3 who? in that title year. I loved it. One of the greatest finals performances of all-time.

[TimeSplitter]

I haven't had any of the three so far on my list so far. I would have them on in my 20-30 range. Durant can still climb up the list depending how he rebounds from injury with the Nets.

[Mazer]

Durant and Curry will both almost be guaranteed to make my list when they retire. But my list is full of Hall of Famers already. I hate rating players before I see their full body of work.

I typically go with what if they retired today.

[Percussion]

#17

Karl Malone

Born: July 24, 1963
Years Active: 1985-2004
Height: 6'9 Weight: 250
College: Louisiana Tech University
Position: Power Forward
Career Stats: 25 ppg, 10.1 rpg, 3.6 apg, 1.4 spg, .8 bpg, .516 fgp, .274 3pp, .742 ftp
14x All-Star, 11x All-NBA 1st Team, 3x All-NBA Defensive 1st Team, NBA All-Rookie 1st Team, 2x NBA MVP, HoF

Points: 45
Votes: 8
Ranked Highest by: hithit (12th)

[3puppies]

The Mailman is another I left off my list, but I understand the argument where he belongs.

[Mr. Boombastic]

Karl Malone is terribly underappreciated. I think it's fairly evident Malone was the 3rd best player of the 90s (behind MJ and Hakeem).

Statistically only LeBron and Kareem had a longer elite run of basketball as he was basically at least a 25-10 guy every year from 87-88 season to 99-00. 11x first team All NBA, 2x MVP (even if one of those was stolen from MJ), he was the best player on a team that won at least 51 games (or equivalent winning percentage bc of the 99 lockout) 12 out of 13 seasons in his prime.

Being a Bulls guy, I was never a fan of him, but it's crazy that nobody really talks about him much anymore as one of the greats.

[Pablo Diablo]

Mailman just snuck into my list at 20.

[Mr. Boombastic]

I actually had him at 17 also.

[Percussion]

#16

Scottie Pippen

Born: September 25, 1965
Years Active: 1987-2004
Height: 6'8 Weight: 228
College: University of Central Arkansas
Position: Small Forward
Career Stats: 16.1 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 5.2 apg, 2 spg, .8 bpg, .473 fgp, .326 3pp, .704 ftp
7x All-Star, 3x All-NBA 1st Team, 8x All-NBA Defensive 1st Team, 1x NBA Steals Leader, 6x NBA Champion, HoF

Points: 49
Votes: 8
Ranked Highest by: Chris Scott, TimeSplitter, Tyson (13th)


Recap..

16. Scottie Pippen
17. Karl Malone
18. Kevin Durant
19. Dirk Nowitzki
20. Charles Barkley

[Chris Scott]

Honestly thought he would have been a bit higher. Scottie P deserves to be middle of the pack.

[Pablo Diablo]

I think he was my last man out. It entirely comes down to being in the shadow making it hard for me to know just how good he actually was.

[CWE]

Only 1 person from my list so far.

[Mazer]

I think he was my last man out. It entirely comes down to being in the shadow making it hard for me to know just how good he actually was.

This is bit higher for me, but I have him in this range.


The year w/o Jordan he was 3rd in MVP voting. Took that team to 55 wins with Pete Myers and Kerr each playing 25 minutes a game.

Even though, he made one of the worst decisions any player has made during the kukoc shot, he still led them to 7 games against a Knicks team that went 7 games in the Finals.

And the Knicks needed a stupid ass phantom foul to get by.




Still bitter

[Pablo Diablo]

You're a Bulls fan?

[Mazer]

You're a Bulls fan?

Yep. Bandwagon jumped in 1986, and stayed on since.

[Pablo Diablo]

The 90s must have been tough. I can see how that loss to the Knicks in the middle would stick with you.

[Pablo Diablo]

That said I do defer to your knowledge of Pippen over mine.

[Mazer]

The 90s must have been tough. I can see how that loss to the Knicks in the middle would stick with you.

It was tough. The Bulls never got ANY calls that decade. I have no idea what the Jazz fans are talking about.

[Dreyski]

One place down from where I had him. Capable wingman for Jordan, and NBA Jam legend.

[Percussion]

#15

Steph Curry

Born: March 14, 1988
Years Active: 2009-present
Height: 6'3 Weight: 185
College: Davidson College
Position: Point Guard
Career Stats: 23.5 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 6.6 apg, 1.7 spg, .2 bpg, .476 fgp, .435 3pp, .906 ftp
6x All-Star, 3x All-NBA 1st Team, NBA All-Rookie 1st Team, 1x NBA Scoring Champion, 1x NBA Steals Leader, 50-40-90 Club, 2x NBA MVP, 3x NBA Champion

Points: 50
Votes: 8
Ranked Highest by: Randolph (12th)

[Randolph]

I've been following Curry since his awesome run in the Final Four with Davidson. I respect the hell out of that dude and had a big part in shaping basketball where it is today, love it or hate it. I have always hated dynasties outside of the Pistons and Redwings, but I was happy to see Curry win a title or three.

[Fro]

Steph is so far and away the best 3 point shooter of all time (even compared to the likes of Ray Allen) that he actually changed the game.

[Mazer]

This is a good spot for Steph. I agree. If you were ranking influential players, he pops up even higher.

I feel like I'm going to be angry about John Stockton getting snubbed out of the top 20.

[Pablo Diablo]

I had him at #13

There is not a better shooter in the history of the NBA that even putting him at #13 seems low.

He's also underrated with his ability to drive the ball.

[Percussion]

His ballhandling is actually fantastic, just that his shooting is so head and shoulders above anything we've ever seen that the handles becomes just kind of tacked on when talking about him.

It's really a stellar lowkey compliment.

[Percussion]

#14

Jerry West

Born: May 28, 1938
Years Active: 1960-1974
Height: 6'3 Weight: 175
College: West Virginia University
Position: Point Guard
Career Stats: 27 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 6.7 apg, 2.6 spg, .7 bpg, .474 fgp, --- 3pp, .814 ftp
14x All-Star, 10x All-NBA 1st Team, 4x NBA All-Defensive 1st Team, 1x NBA Scoring Champion, 1x NBA Assist Leader, 1x NBA Champion, 1x NBA Finals MVP, HoF

Points: 59
Votes: 8
Ranked Highest by: TimeSplitter (5th)

[Pablo Diablo]

Ranked 17th on my list. Obviously never saw him play so entirely based it off what I have read about him.

Would be interested to see why TS decided to rank him 5th.

[Percussion]

Had him comfortably at 14th. Fantastic production that would likely hold up in today's NBA. 10 Finals appearances even if it was a terrible uphill climb. Only Finals MVP from a losing team in league history in the process. And of course, the logo. Pretty memorable career with a timeless game.

[Mazer]

I feel like Jerry is one of the guys that was way ahead of the game. If you have him in a modern offense, he's hoisting up 7 3s a game, and still providing that excellent court vision. Would be an absolute killer.

[Fro]

I had him 19th. Surely he would be higher if he had a better Finals record than 1-8. But yea, he’s an old timer so I don’t have much perspective on him other than looking at his accomplishments on paper.

[Percussion]

#13

Oscar Robertson

Born: November 24, 1938
Years Active: 1960-1974
Height: 6'5 Weight: 205
College: University of Cincinnati
Position: Point Guard
Career Stats: 25.7 ppg, 7.5 rpg, 9.5 apg, --- spg, --- bpg, .485 fgp, --- 3pp, .838 ftp
12x All-Star, 9x All-NBA 1st Team, NBA RoY, 6x NBA Assist Leader, 181 Career Triple Doubles 1st All-Time, 1x NBA Champion, 1x NBA MVP, HoF

Points: 95
Votes: 11
Ranked Highest by: TimeSplitter (4th)

[3puppies]

TimeSplitter had both Jerry and the Big O tied at 5th?

[Percussion]

TimeSplitter had both Jerry and the Big O tied at 5th?

He had West 5th and Oscar 4th. I use each last reveal as a template for the next one and just missed switching the 5 to a 4. My bad.

Good catch, thanks bud.

[Percussion]

If you take Big O's first 5 seasons totaled up he averaged a 30 point triple double for the lot of them - 30.3 points, 10.4 rebounds, and 10.6 assists.

The first player ever to average 10 or more assists per game. And the first guard to average 10 or more rebounds per game.

So he effectively entered the league averaging things no one had ever done before and continued them year after year.

[Pablo Diablo]

I had him at 16.

Once again another judging solely by the numbers and what people said about him. And he really did have some great stats.

Hurt by me being unable to properly judge older eras and how different the game was at the time.

[Percussion]

#12

Julius Erving

Born: February 22, 1950
Years Active: 1971-1987
Height: 6'7 Weight: 210
College: University of Massachusetts
Position: Small Forward
Career Stats (ABA/NBA): 24.2 ppg, 8.5 rpg, 4.2 apg, 2.0 spg, 1.7 bpg, .506 fgp, .298 3pp, .777 ftp
5x ABA All-Star, 4x All-ABA 1st Team, 1x All-ABA Defensive 1st Team, 3x ABA Scoring Champion, 2x ABA Playoff MVP, 2x ABA Champion, 3x ABA MVP
11x All-Star, 5x All-NBA 1st Team, 1x NBA Champion, 1x NBA MVP, HoF

Points: 111
Votes: 12
Ranked Highest by: Tyson (6th)

[CWE]

#12

Good spot. Right where I had him. The definition of smooth.