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Thread: Project Big Picture

  1. #1
    Simon
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    Project Big Picture

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football...t-big-picture/

    Off the back of the PPV nonsense as well. Fucking tramps.

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    Yeah its nothing but a power grab by the biggest clubs, dressed up as 'helping' the EFL. Thankfully the other PL teams can see what it is and will vote it down I'm sure.

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    As for the PPV stuff, I get it. But where the fuck did £15 come from? Jesus.

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    Yeah fiver would be about right. Everyone will just go for illegal streams

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    I'm gonna go old school, sack off Sky and BT and watch Match of the Day.

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    RFF WORLDWIDE WESTERN CON son_of_foley's Avatar
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    They'll strip down the league. Negotiate for 2 teams relegated soon becoming 1 and 1 in a play-off. Sack of the cups and then go ahead with the extension to Champions league.

    I honestly can only see a PL2 and PL3 soon. Reserves/Under23 teams of top 6 (or more) included. 18 teams in each. Most of league 1 and league 2 cut adrift.

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    I genuinely don't get why people are moaning about the PPV stuff. It's only a fiver more than the rest of us are paying and you wouldn't have been able to watch (legally) at all otherwise.

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    RFF WORLDWIDE WESTERN CON son_of_foley's Avatar
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    Because most people aren't people who attend the games in person so they don't see a saving. Its people who otherwise wouldn't get a chance to see the game and £15 is a lot of cash really.

    Maybe people are finally understanding that it is their money that the players get...

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    Then they don't have to pay it and they haven't lost out.

    People are so fucking entitled its ridiculous.

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    Of course they have lost out. They can't go to the games in person, so unless you get an illegal stream you are a captive audience.

    I saw someone made a comparison on how the PL have handled this against what Spotify did. If you offer a service at a price that doesn't take the piss.

    Why would a neutral fan pay £15 for a game? I bet you will get more net revenue if you priced at a fiver.

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    RFF WORLDWIDE WESTERN CON son_of_foley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefy View Post
    Then they don't have to pay it and they haven't lost out.

    People are so fucking entitled its ridiculous.
    Nobody is saying they have to pay it. It's not entitled to say it's a lot of cash. What an odd thing to get bent out of shape about. People maybe want a service and think they are being gouged then it's fair enough for them to say so

  12. #12
    The Rosk
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    If Villa games were a fiver each I'd watch every one. The principle of £15 to watch per streamed game on top of any other paid service is what annoys me. Perhaps if people didn't shout about it, nothing might be done. Who knows where this uproar could lead? This will only contribute further to illegal streaming.

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    I bet they will release a 'season ticket' in response that will work out slightly cheaper. People will feel it is a better deal and Sky get a guaranteed amount of money - probably their plan all along, clever and cynical marketing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Romford Pele View Post
    Of course they have lost out. They can't go to the games in person, so unless you get an illegal stream you are a captive audience.

    I saw someone made a comparison on how the PL have handled this against what Spotify did. If you offer a service at a price that doesn't take the piss.

    Why would a neutral fan pay £15 for a game? I bet you will get more net revenue if you priced at a fiver.
    It isn't priced for neutrals. It is priced for fans who can't get to games because the clubs aren't allowed to sell tickets.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Romford Pele View Post
    I bet they will release a 'season ticket' in response that will work out slightly cheaper. People will feel it is a better deal and Sky get a guaranteed amount of money - probably their plan all along, clever and cynical marketing.
    Sky aren't getting a penny ffs. It goes to your beloved club.

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    Quote Originally Posted by son_of_foley View Post
    Nobody is saying they have to pay it. It's not entitled to say it's a lot of cash. What an odd thing to get bent out of shape about. People maybe want a service and think they are being gouged then it's fair enough for them to say so
    I'm not bent out of shape. Doesn't bother me in the slightest what 20 clubs I couldn't give a shit about want to charge for their streaming platform. The entitlement of moaning football fans just makes me laugh, It is £15 you tight cunts. I've not had a job in five months and don't think that's much money to pay to watch my favourite football team. And if I did think it was much money I just wouldn't watch - the same as before.

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    75% Insane Rip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Rosk View Post
    If Villa games were a fiver each I'd watch every one. The principle of £15 to watch per streamed game on top of any other paid service is what annoys me. Perhaps if people didn't shout about it, nothing might be done. Who knows where this uproar could lead? This will only contribute further to illegal streaming.
    Pretty much this, but obviously not Villa.

    It works out considerably cheaper for me to watch games this way than to take me and the lad to the game, feed him and park but it’s the principle of being asked to pay again to watch a game on a platform I already pay for while some clubs, mine included, still haven’t repaid season ticket subs to fans.

  17. #17
    The Rosk
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefy View Post
    I'm not bent out of shape. Doesn't bother me in the slightest what 20 clubs I couldn't give a shit about want to charge for their streaming platform. The entitlement of moaning football fans just makes me laugh, It is £15 you tight cunts. I've not had a job in five months and don't think that's much money to pay to watch my favourite football team. And if I did think it was much money I just wouldn't watch - the same as before.
    Beef, you aren't like the majority. When a large percentage of the people that go are families who see it as an entire day out and something to build their weekend around, and to many others who go to games as the legitimate highlight of their week and talk all week in the office about it as their escape, it's just simply not the same. It's more than just the game, it's the atmosphere, the day out, everything.

    This is the equivalent of asking people to pay £200 to watch Wrestlemania on stream instead of getting a ticket and being there in person. It's an outrageous amount of money to watch 90 minutes of football on a TV. If it was more reasonably priced then I'm sure they'd get a shedload more people.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefy View Post
    It isn't priced for neutrals. It is priced for fans who can't get to games because the clubs aren't allowed to sell tickets.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Sky aren't getting a penny ffs. It goes to your beloved club.
    Sorry but that is bollocks Beefy. Do you only watch Southend games?

    How many people do you think watch Man Utd v Liverpool who aren't fans of either side. Plenty of people. And most of these people who are neutral who want to watch that game would probably be fine to chuck a fiver at it as an impulse purchase on the day. But £15? Not so much.

    They are overvaluing their product. Illegal streams are not going away, you shut one down more will spring up. The only way to stop people from doing that is buy pricing sensibly. The likes of Spotify and Netflix have done. If they suddenly added a tenner to their subscription prices I guarantee they would lose subcribers as well as net revenue.

    It is a short sighted move.

    Of course Sky get a cut of that money. Who do you think is paying for their costs?

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    I'm only being a touch hyperbolic when I say the proposals sicken me. It would change English Football into a cartel, fuck that.

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    "Long Term Shareholder" statuses. More money to the biggest clubs. More voting rights to the bigger clubs. Pay offs for the EFL and the FA. Here you go little clubs, you can survive, now know your place and stay little forever.

    It's fucking reprehensible, proper cartoonish villain twisting his moustache. Yes, the PL should distribute more money to the EFL and fund the women's game. But that's because the PL, while being a massive success, has put the boots in to the system underneath it. They can't pontificate about their financial largesse when it comes with instructions to create what would in effect be a Footballing Caste System.

    Fuck that, fuck them, fuck this utterly disgusting proposal.

  21. #21
    Simon
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    Beefy you're coming across like a Tory politician out of touch with the common man. It's a banana, how much could it cost - $10?

    £15 for an at-home, sterilised version of the live experience is not good value. At that point, the comparison isn't just with live games, it's with all the other simlar things you can do at home. Twice the price of a month's worth of Netflix. Half the price of a major PPV title fight that only comes around once a year rather than potentially three or four times a month. Most pertinently, about a quarter of the price of a year's IPTV subscription that gives you access to not just that game but every game across the world. Netflix has shown that if you price something reasonably and make it easy to use, people will pay for it rather than use illegal downloads/streams. If these games were priced reasonably (£5-7 maybe?) there would be no uproar.

    I'm not going to pretend that I have any idea whether it would sell well enough to make it as profitable as £15, but it certainly wouldn't have caused the aggro and a lot of people would be more willing and able to pay. The laughable thing is that last point isn't even part of the consideration, the simple analysis is "can we sell enough at a lower price to get enough people in that it ends up more profitable than selling at the higher price to a smaller number?" and if the answer is no then that's the end of the discussion. The idea that it's entitlement to not want to be further priced out of watching football that has been whored out to increasingly ridiculous extents for the past thirty years says more about you than the fans who are upset. The point you make that you "don't think that's much money to pay to watch my favourite football team. And if I did think it was much money I just wouldn't watch" - do you not read that back and think it's a really shitty way to view it? Just a customer who can choose to buy the product or not?
    Last edited by Simon; October 14th, 2020 at 5:50 AM.

  22. #22
    The Rosk
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    Quote Originally Posted by JP View Post
    "Long Term Shareholder" statuses. More money to the biggest clubs. More voting rights to the bigger clubs. Pay offs for the EFL and the FA. Here you go little clubs, you can survive, now know your place and stay little forever.

    It's fucking reprehensible, proper cartoonish villain twisting his moustache. Yes, the PL should distribute more money to the EFL and fund the women's game. But that's because the PL, while being a massive success, has put the boots in to the system underneath it. They can't pontificate about their financial largesse when it comes with instructions to create what would in effect be a Footballing Caste System.

    Fuck that, fuck them, fuck this utterly disgusting proposal.
    I'm proud that our CEO is saying how shit the idea is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Romford Pele View Post
    Sorry but that is bollocks Beefy. Do you only watch Southend games?

    How many people do you think watch Man Utd v Liverpool who aren't fans of either side. Plenty of people. And most of these people who are neutral who want to watch that game would probably be fine to chuck a fiver at it as an impulse purchase on the day. But £15? Not so much.

    They are overvaluing their product. Illegal streams are not going away, you shut one down more will spring up. The only way to stop people from doing that is buy pricing sensibly. The likes of Spotify and Netflix have done. If they suddenly added a tenner to their subscription prices I guarantee they would lose subcribers as well as net revenue.

    It is a short sighted move.

    Of course Sky get a cut of that money. Who do you think is paying for their costs?
    Every Man Utd v Liverpool game is on the telly anyway - most games the neutrals want to watch are.

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    For now maybe, but what's to stop broadcasters putting those matches behind paywalls?

    Also, Simons point about it being sterile is a good one. It isn't the same experience, in fact it is a significantly worse experience than watching football with crowds. So why pay additional money for an inferior product? Fuck that.

  25. #25
    Simon
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    It's a significantly worse experience to the normal experience of watching football at home, let alone watching live.

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    I would be willing to spend a fair amount of money on various streams of certain clubs if they had a decent price point and the stream was guaranteed to work etc.

    I think they have missed a trick for years personally. I would never buy a subscription for Sky or BT or whoever to watch a bunch of games involving clubs I don't care about.

    There is a limit though, watching from at home just isn't the same (though some of the other clubs I watch its not feasible for me to watch them live even in normal times, (I'm not traipsing across Europe to watch PSG women for example...but if you are charging me five quid a month like Bayern do then I will happily give my money) I think a lot of people who are not fans of certain clubs would be willing to drop a couple of quid to watch a game to pass some time but nobody is paying £15 for games that don't involve their club.

    Also what if I pay £15 to watch Everton and they get tonked 8-0? What a waste of money...

    With the way things are right now value for money is going to be a massive decision maker for people over the next few months/years. The Premier League should be careful not to be so tone deaf.

  27. #27
    The Rosk
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    If Villa offered £5 x 38 games = £190 to guarantee I could watch any PL game they are in, live or on demand, I'd buy it. There's no way I'd spend £15 per game on 13 games (which would be the crossover point for revenue generated).

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Rosk View Post
    If Villa offered £5 x 38 games = £190 to guarantee I could watch any PL game they are in, live or on demand, I'd buy it. There's no way I'd spend £15 per game on 13 games (which would be the crossover point for revenue generated).
    Yeah same, with Everton obviously. As it is right now they get nothing off me as I happen to have access to some nice stream links.

    I don't think it stops people going the match either (when they can), if I was still in a position to go every week I would.

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    Sky sports saying it’s been rejected.

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    I feel like people are underestimating the possibility that the "Big 6" quit and join a European Super League. Is it likely? Probably not. But if you would have asked people in 1985 if "the Premier League" was possible, I think they would have said "That will never happen"

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Rosk View Post
    If Villa games were a fiver each I'd watch every one. The principle of £15 to watch per streamed game on top of any other paid service is what annoys me. Perhaps if people didn't shout about it, nothing might be done. Who knows where this uproar could lead? This will only contribute further to illegal streaming.
    Aren't these games that would not be televised otherwise or did I miss something? That is what I thought it was. They are broadcasting extra games; not making people pay more for games they could already watch…

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    Donde esta la biblioteca Pablo Diablo's Avatar
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    I obviously get why there's going to be a difference in price, but for comparison sake.

    For $150 CAD I get to watch every Premier League, Champions League and Europa League game. Many Serie A games and the odd Championship and League 1 or 2 games with DAZN (and that's excluding the other sports namely NFL that also comes with that)

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by _me View Post
    Aren't these games that would not be televised otherwise or did I miss something? That is what I thought it was. They are broadcasting extra games; not making people pay more for games they could already watch…
    I’m not sure what you’re confusing here.

  34. #34
    Simon
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    I don't know whether a European Super League will ever happen (other than just creating it stealthily through incremental yearly changes to the Champions League) but the advent of the Premier League is a good example of why this plan should be fucked into the bin - it started off as a relatively minor change in practical terms from what I've read (I particularly remember one thing I read from a player saying the only difference seemed to be that they had cheerleaders on the pitch before TV games) but the increased power it gave the league allowed them to gradually take it further and further away from what football should be. Stating the obvious, but it's all about the money - in 1992 it was the PL forming to squeeze out the rest of the football league, now it's the top PL clubs squeezing out the rest of the PL. It wouldn't stop there either - if there WAS a European Super League off the back of this, within a few years the likes of Madrid and Barca would be looking for more money at the expense of teams like Liverpool and United, because they bring in more money.

    The whole point of this stuff is to remove unpredictability - the owners treat their clubs as businesses, and they don't want uncertainties, they want guaranteed income and the only way to ensure that is to make the league as uncompetitive as possible, to ensure they are always at the top where the big money is. Project Big Bollocks is nakedly anti-competition and that is why it has to be opposed by any football fan. I can understand the support it has from fans of lower league teams who think the alternative is their team no longer existing, but no fan of any of the big six who stand to benefit should support it. As a Tottenham fan, we would benefit from this if it went through, but what's the point? Where is the joy in success if there is no prospect of failure?

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    Quote Originally Posted by _me View Post
    I feel like people are underestimating the possibility that the "Big 6" quit and join a European Super League. Is it likely? Probably not. But if you would have asked people in 1985 if "the Premier League" was possible, I think they would have said "That will never happen"
    A European super league is a massively flawed concept. The draw of Europe is (or was anyway) that you got glamour games that you normally would not see. It's an attraction to see two clubs who would normally face each other come up against each other in a competition. Having it year in and year out regularly would mean absolutely nothing. Football is a tribal game (cliche but its true) whats the point of beating Bayern Munich on Sunday if you cant have a bit of "top bantz" with Klaus in work on Monday morning?

    I kind of hope they would go for it in a way, would serve them right to see it fail.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MMH View Post
    A European super league is a massively flawed concept. The draw of Europe is (or was anyway) that you got glamour games that you normally would not see. It's an attraction to see two clubs who would normally face each other come up against each other in a competition. Having it year in and year out regularly would mean absolutely nothing. Football is a tribal game (cliche but its true) whats the point of beating Bayern Munich on Sunday if you cant have a bit of "top bantz" with Klaus in work on Monday morning?

    I kind of hope they would go for it in a way, would serve them right to see it fail.
    For the countries the team normally play in, I agree with this idea. Domestically, football (and really all sports) are tribal games.

    But for the "Super Teams", most of their fans will never see a game in person on even visit the country and don't work next to fans of their rivals. They live in every country in the world. They don't care about the local bragging rights part. Their "rival" is not their neighbor or the guy in the next cubicle; it is some loudmouth online.

    The bottom line is the best teams in world get most of the money internationally, not domestically. That is why they see things different.

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    Quote Originally Posted by _me View Post
    For the countries the team normally play in, I agree with this idea. Domestically, football (and really all sports) are tribal games.

    But for the "Super Teams", most of their fans will never see a game in person on even visit the country and don't work next to fans of their rivals. They live in every country in the world. They don't care about the local bragging rights part. Their "rival" is not their neighbor or the guy in the next cubicle; it is some loudmouth online.

    The bottom line is the best teams in world get most of the money internationally, not domestically. That is why they see things different.
    They also watch for the fans and the atmosphere hence why some bloke from Thailand ends all his tweets with YNWA even though he has never left Bangkok in his life.

    The actual football is not the only part of the brand. It would get boring really quickly. As much as I hate the other lot I don't know one of their match going fans who would prefer to be in some weird super league rather than a domestic one, I'm sure United fans would be the same.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MMH View Post
    They also watch for the fans and the atmosphere hence why some bloke from Thailand ends all his tweets with YNWA even though he has never left Bangkok in his life.

    The actual football is not the only part of the brand. It would get boring really quickly. As much as I hate the other lot I don't know one of their match going fans who would prefer to be in some weird super league rather than a domestic one, I'm sure United fans would be the same.
    You think no one is going to go watch Manchester United play Real Madrid or Liverpool play PSG or that people will find it boring?

    Why would that be boring but Newcastle vs Southampton would not be?

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    Have you seen United lately?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pablo Diablo View Post
    Have you seen United lately?
    Yes. They still have hundreds of thousands of "fans" waiting to buy tickets. Watford does not.

    We are talking about perceptions of "average fans" here, not reality.

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    Quote Originally Posted by _me View Post
    You think no one is going to go watch Manchester United play Real Madrid or Liverpool play PSG or that people will find it boring?

    Why would that be boring but Newcastle vs Southampton would not be?
    Eventually it would be yes. You are not going to get a load of away fans travelling all around Europe every weekend, it's just not feasible.

    Personally I don't even watch the Champions League as it is because it's the same teams all the time.

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