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Thread: The Stone Cold Steve Austin Appreciation Thread

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    The Stone Cold Steve Austin Appreciation Thread

    I think we should all take a little time to appreciate why pro wrestling is only still a thing. It's because of Stone Cold Steve Austin.

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    World Champion Jarrod1983's Avatar
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    Gimme a Hell Yeah!

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    Fuck you Roman... Tim's Avatar
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    I’m surprised he’s never come back for a match, especially after the buckets of money they’ve been giving out for the Saudi shows.

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    He's been paid a heckuva lot, and even if his ex wives got a huge chunk of that, he still has plenty to live happily ever after on the ranch.

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    Top Hulkamaniac Bluegunn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim View Post
    I’m surprised he’s never come back for a match, especially after the buckets of money they’ve been giving out for the Saudi shows.
    He only had 1 real matches since he quit the first time and that was his match with the Rock. Now he just comes out where he doesn't take a single bump.

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    Main Eventer BigAl's Avatar
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    Is his neck bad enough that he can’t get cleared to take bumps?

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    Can't they just make parts of him bionic, like Steve Austin?

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    GO ON LAD Fanny Batter's Avatar
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    Remember when they booked him for a storyline match with Jonathan Coachman in 2005? Think he was going to lose as well. Just a smart bloke who knows his brand and was uncompromising in how he was put across. Him walking out in 2002 should have been the lesson learned in how you create and protect top stars creatively, and here we are 18 years later.

    I think if the Saudi money was around in 2007/8 or so, he'd have taken his slice. He wouldn't have been so far removed from the business to think that he'd embarrass himself and his legacy. After that point, he was older, he'd had a hit with The Condemned, he was getting into the brewing and podcasts, maximizing his revenue streams while encountering no risk to his health.

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    I thought they were going to do a Kane/Austin feud back in 2003 after the unmasking. That had so much damn potential and would've made Kane even bigger. Instead they did the stupid Shane feud.

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    Main Eventer Horatio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigAl View Post
    Is his neck bad enough that he can’t get cleared to take bumps?
    I think so. He's like Misawa was, one bump away from dying.

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    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fanny Batter View Post
    Remember when they booked him for a storyline match with Jonathan Coachman in 2005? Think he was going to lose as well. Just a smart bloke who knows his brand and was uncompromising in how he was put across. Him walking out in 2002 should have been the lesson learned in how you create and protect top stars creatively, and here we are 18 years later.

    I think if the Saudi money was around in 2007/8 or so, he'd have taken his slice. He wouldn't have been so far removed from the business to think that he'd embarrass himself and his legacy. After that point, he was older, he'd had a hit with The Condemned, he was getting into the brewing and podcasts, maximizing his revenue streams while encountering no risk to his health.
    The Austin-Lesnar KOTR qualifying match on Raw was so strange and I even remember to this very day seeing it advertised that night and then it not happening. But I remember going, what the fuck are they doing? Was that even to pop a number?

    We never did hear what they had planned after the fact did we? Was there some interference going to happen, was it literally just a cold match and Lesnar goes over to skyrocket him to the top? Was he going to pivot into a World title program maybe?

    Austin did not give a fuck x1000 at this point and I think some of that stems from A-his failed heel turn and B-the Scott Hall match @ Mania. He wasn't exactly the top guy on tv it seemed.

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    an affront to god mth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigAl View Post
    Is his neck bad enough that he can’t get cleared to take bumps?
    I seem to recall him saying in recent interviews that he could probably go one more time but he is content, doesn't have the itch and feels like he accomplished everything he needed/wanted and that his last match was a satisfying conclusion to his in-ring career.

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    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    You know I honestly can't even think of someone who retired or even "retired" and came back to a match that people actually wanted them to come back for. Maybe The Rock? Hard to say when 70% of the audience booed the shit out of Cena so idk if there was a large crowd that actually thought "You know it'd be fucking sweet if Rock came back and fought Cena" Other than that....I mean, I wanted Shawn to come out of retirement for 2 guys, Daniel Bryan and AJ Styles. He came back and for what? To almost die in a tag-team match 20 years too late?

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    GO ON LAD Fanny Batter's Avatar
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    I think Lesnar was going to beat Austin thanks to interference from Eddie Guerrero. Would have feuded with Benoit and Guerrero for a bit I guess, which would have been very physical matches. I guess the stress of feeling his body failing while going into a programme that required high physicality wouldn't have helped his mindset. Impossible to really know the plan given all of the injuries and releases. I guess there's a possibility he'd have been in Rock's position against Brock at Summerslam, seeing as how Rock returned early to fill the Austin void?

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    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fanny Batter View Post
    I think Lesnar was going to beat Austin thanks to interference from Eddie Guerrero. Would have feuded with Benoit and Guerrero for a bit I guess, which would have been very physical matches. I guess the stress of feeling his body failing while going into a programme that required high physicality wouldn't have helped his mindset. Impossible to really know the plan given all of the injuries and releases. I guess there's a possibility he'd have been in Rock's position against Brock at Summerslam, seeing as how Rock returned early to fill the Austin void?
    Austin leaving definitely caused many changes I would imagine. I mean, would Shawn Michaels have even returned if Austin was still around? That's a weird story in itself how he became involved on camera in 2002. Maybe we would have seen Hogan v. Austin @ Summerslam or even Mania 19? I know Bruce Prichard said they basically thought they could do Hogan v. Rock @ 18 and then do v. Austin @ the ppvs I just mentioned.

    Austin v. Lesnar @ Summerslam would have been awesome. I do remember the genesis of the Eddie-Austin feud and Austin wanting that feud badly so that sucks. This was after Eddie returned right? Where he was wrestling Rey and Punk on the indies lol, fuckin crazy when you think about that.

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    Fuck you Roman... Tim's Avatar
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    Most guys wrestle past their prime, Austin didn’t from what I remember. The cartoony Stone Cold was lame but he was having the best matches of his career and then he went out putting over the Rock.

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    ... Beer-Belly's Avatar
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    I think Austin fucked up his shoulder throwing punches at Rusev at WrestleMania 32. Unless it's something with Rock or Punk, he ain't coming back.

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    Biggest star in the history of the business tied with Hogan IMO. His 97-99 run was incredible, as was his 00-01 return/heel turn

    Greatest of all time? He is in the conversation for sure, but it does come down to a lot of things - he does lose a bit there because of his early retirement compared to others like Flair, Michaels and Taker but he was a bigger star than all of em so its tough

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    World Champion Murphy's Avatar
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    For me, he's the greatest of all time. As an overall package/performer. 100% changed the business.

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    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Romford Pele View Post
    Biggest star in the history of the business tied with Hogan IMO. His 97-99 run was incredible, as was his 00-01 return/heel turn

    Greatest of all time? He is in the conversation for sure, but it does come down to a lot of things - he does lose a bit there because of his early retirement compared to others like Flair, Michaels and Taker but he was a bigger star than all of em so its tough
    Pro wrestling is a difficult "sport" to label someone the absolute GOAT because it's not a legit sport. It's like if everyone going to the Oscars already knew they were going to win (maybe they do but for the discussion let's pretend they don't) So if the academy a year prior already made the decision Robert Downey Jr was going to win best actor it makes everything else irrelevant.

    So with wrestling you have various factors I guess. Drawing ability, mic work, in-ring ability, etc. Austin might very well be the GOAT. His in-ring work both pre and post HartStone Piledriver was still a top worker. Promos were top notch, he could draw, and he was one of the cornerstones of the wrestling boom in the late 90's and to this day still one of the most recognized pro wrestlers of all time.

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    World Champion Donald's Avatar
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    We all know Kevin Nash is the GOAT.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Donald View Post
    We all know Kevin Nash is the GOAT.

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    Furry, Filthy and Fun Badger's Avatar
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    When it comes down to it, yes I think Austin could very well be the complete package and the GOAT. Sure Austin did not have the longevity of a Taker but really only he and Hogan could truly mive the needle in the business and they’re about level on mic skills but IMO Austin beats him in-ring skill.

    Shorter run but he accomplished so much in that run.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nash Diesel View Post
    Pro wrestling is a difficult "sport" to label someone the absolute GOAT because it's not a legit sport. It's like if everyone going to the Oscars already knew they were going to win (maybe they do but for the discussion let's pretend they don't) So if the academy a year prior already made the decision Robert Downey Jr was going to win best actor it makes everything else irrelevant.

    So with wrestling you have various factors I guess. Drawing ability, mic work, in-ring ability, etc. Austin might very well be the GOAT. His in-ring work both pre and post HartStone Piledriver was still a top worker. Promos were top notch, he could draw, and he was one of the cornerstones of the wrestling boom in the late 90's and to this day still one of the most recognized pro wrestlers of all time.
    I am split whether to go with him or Flair, for different reasons. Austin changed the business and went to unheard of heights (even higher than 80s Hogan) but it was a 5 year period.

    I don't think anyone can hold up to Flairs body of work though.

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    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donald View Post
    We all know Kevin Nash is the GOAT.
    Not of wrestling but of the shoot interview, no doubt.

    Quote Originally Posted by Badger View Post
    When it comes down to it, yes I think Austin could very well be the complete package and the GOAT. Sure Austin did not have the longevity of a Taker but really only he and Hogan could truly mive the needle in the business and they’re about level on mic skills but IMO Austin beats him in-ring skill.

    Shorter run but he accomplished so much in that run.
    Quote Originally Posted by Romford Pele View Post
    I am split whether to go with him or Flair, for different reasons. Austin changed the business and went to unheard of heights (even higher than 80s Hogan) but it was a 5 year period.

    I don't think anyone can hold up to Flairs body of work though.
    Like Badger said, shorter run at the top but accomplished so much.

    I think an argument could be made about HBK's body of work in terms of in-ring. Shawn had the unfortunate luck of being a top guy during a low period in the WWF, say 1994 to late 1997, despite by late 1996 having the best wrestling show imo. Flair didn't really hold up after about 1994 and even then it was a stretch. I would say Vader was his last really good match up until he faced Shawn at Mania 24.

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    World Champion Jarrod1983's Avatar
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    Nash can spin a old yarn like no one else. Nash is even better when he has a glass of red wine in his hand. Some of the best interviews I've seen.

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    GO ON LAD Fanny Batter's Avatar
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    For me he's the greatest of all time, and the lack of longevity isn't too much of an issue when you account for that he was really good, really young. "Stunning" Steve isn't iconic but he was fundamentally so good in that role. As Stone Cold, his peak as a performer is better than anybody's peak. Nobody transcended the business like he did, and every performance in matches, angles and promos were authentic and brilliant through the end of the invasion angle when he was clearly spent. It has helped his legacy that he got out when he did too. Flair, Michaels, Hart and Cena would complete the top 5 for me. Hogan a controversial omission but he doesn't have the match catalogue for me, whereas Cena has a shit ton while being a mega star too. Hogan, Undertaker, Savage, Brock and Bryan completing the North American top 10.

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    It all depends on how we want to value various components of someone's entire career.

    Ring Work (and is this measured for an entire career, and against great workers as well as jabronis, or just a peak period or selected feuds)
    Mic Skills
    Ability to Draw
    Merch sales
    Longevity
    Other factors (things like admitting you're a racist on tape while F'ing your friend's wife, or being the all-time Make-a-Wish wishes granted leader, or beating up multiple ex-wives, multiple DUIs etc.)

    Stone Cold Steve Austin ranks high, but if you value longevity even just a little bit, its hard to rate him above Cena.

    But again, this is all subjective. When you measure anyone's career for the above categories, they have to be considered in the era that they worked. It's impossible to rate anyone over Bruno.

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    GO ON LAD Fanny Batter's Avatar
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    Cena's best ranks slightly below Austin's best I think, in all aspects beside longevity. There's 11 years between War Games 92 and the third classic with The Rock too, so it's not like he wasn't having great matches over a long period. In comparison, Cena's last classic is probably the Styles Rumble match, and I'd argue he hadn't had a match as good as War Games 11 years before that.

    It's weird when you think of longevity, as greatness is so hard to sustain. Shawn himself benefitted from long absences, so his 1986-2010 top flight career is a bloated 24 years, and Flair had long periods of inactivity and a dip in quality for the last 15 years or so of his career. Then you get into Jericho territory who's coming up for 26 years of top experience (that Heavenly Bodies tag in SMW was 1994 I think), but again, years out.

    I think the versatility is a key to him as well. Great tag wrestler, his technical matches are outstanding (Benoit, Angle, Hart SS96) and he's probably the best brawler of all time. Flair deserves props too in that regard.

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    You clearly missed the category "Other Factors" that I mentioned in the post ahead of yours when you suggest that the only category where Cena comes out ahead of Austin is longevity.

    And when you say versatility, I have to laugh, because that's the biggest knock on Austin. His refusal to work with others who he thought he couldn't have a great match with. Hence, the reason he never faced off against Hogan. Meanwhile, Cena could manage to get the best out of all of his opponents. Do you think Austin could have gotten a quality match out of Khali? Cena did.

    I am not sure that I can even concede to you that Austin was the best brawler of all time. Because Bruno was that dominant in every style he chose to wrestle against any given opponent.

    Ring work / Versality - Bruno also by a wide margin. Bruno would change his style to bring out the best in his opponent. Austin primarily worked the brawler style.

    Longevity - Bruno by a huge margin

    Drawing power - due to their respective eras being so different, this is very close, so while I am tempted to call it even between Bruno and Steve, Austin drew intense crowds like nobody ever. Slight advantage to Austin.

    Mic skills - Bruno was great, and didn't need to be on TV every week to be a draw. But Austin is one of the best ever, so slight advantage Austin.

    Merch sales - This is not a fair comparison because Austin sold so much in his era, but merch sales other than magazines were non-existent in Bruno's time. If we look at percentages of total merch sold - Bruno was all over every wrestling magazine in his time - while when Austin was selling shirts etc., there were lots of other wrestlers selling similar stuff. Since the comparisons are apples and Steveweisers, it isn't fair to give a huge advantage to Austin. Modest advantage to Austin.

    Other factors / intangibles (Austin was a domestic abuser, and he took his ball and went home rather than honor his contract). Bruno bought a Rolls Royce, because he thought a champion should show off the trappings of success, to make the business more appealing to others. Even if Bruno was just a jabroni, SCSA's domestic abuse has to be a negative, no matter how little you may choose to weight it.

  31. #31
    GO ON LAD Fanny Batter's Avatar
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    There's obviously a level of bias here in both of us, as the notion that Bruno was better in the ring and only slightly worse on the mic is just preposterous. Likewise, me not commenting on Austin's chequered personal life (a gigantic slight on the man) and his 3 years as the top attraction compared to Bruno's 15+, is also preposterous. Bruno is completely unique in that regard, and every asterisk you can apply to that (regional company, lower impact style of the era, kayfabe allowing a legitimate tough guy have a chance to succeed, racial demographic of the audience) can be applied to Austin (more televised matches, more evolved ring style, worked with better wrestlers, free reign on promos from a language perspective in an ADHD world). They're both on the Mount Rushmore of wrestling, with Hogan and (for me) Cena.

    However, Austin is the better professional wrestler. By having better matches and promos. I don't think either of those are debatable, clearly you do and that's fair enough.

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    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    The "other factors" that 3pup brings up are just cheap ways to sell an argument. If you want to say Chris Benoit was the greatest in-ring wrestler of all time, I am not going to ever dispute that as hard as I would someone trying to downplay Austin because he of his domestic abuse charges or John Cena being involved with Mickie James while she was engaged to Kenny Dykstra. Why? Because honestly it doesn't matter.

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    Not sure I follow you. Are you suggesting that none of the outside of the ring stuff matters? Of course it matters, but it matters in context of what you're discussing.

    We weren't only discussing in-ring performance. The discussion was about GOAT, which brings in more subjectivity.

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    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3puppies View Post
    Not sure I follow you. Are you suggesting that none of the outside of the ring stuff matters? Of course it matters, but it matters in context of what you're discussing.

    We weren't only discussing in-ring performance. The discussion was about GOAT, which brings in more subjectivity.
    I'm not suggesting it doesn't matter I'm flat out saying it doesn't matter. There isn't a single athlete or actor that I factor in their personal life with gauging them as the GOAT. I might be like "That guy is a piece of shit but there's no denying he's the best ever" Michael Jordan, without a doubt the GOAT in basketball and it has nothing to do with anything but what he does during the time I'm paying him.

    Trust me, I deal with this GOAT talk on many levels. I want to consider Jon Jones the greatest MMA fighter of all time but I can't. Not because he's a piece of shit half the time, but because it's a legit sport and he failed a couple drug tests, 1 which was for possible steroid use so GSP (for me) still reigns supreme.

    Pro wrestling is weird because you can't really compare it to other sports and unless it's the wrestler's promotion it's hard to put full blame on a talent for holding someone down and getting a spot by political maneuvering when it's Vince or whoever's final say. You can't blame a soldier for killing the enemy if he's given orders to do so. That's why I never bought in to blaming the Klik for anything backstage because it's Vince's company, not Shawn's, not Hunter's, but Vince.

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    The Stale Smell of Excess Jimmy Zero's Avatar
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    I don't understand at all this notion that Austin being a domestic abuser has any sort of impact on his status as, arguably, the GOAT. Ty Cobb was a piece of shit. Still one of the best baseball players ever, and just because he's a piece of shit doesn't mean he shouldn't be recognized for his on field accomplishments. Mike Tyson is a fucking rapist, but he still had a pretty damn impressive boxing career, and was one of the first boxers to come along in a good long time that made the mainstream give a shit about boxing. Karl Malone is a deadbeat, but he's still, arguably, the best power forward ever. I could go on and on. I'm not trying to be friends with these guys. I never cared that Jordan had a reputation as an egomaniac jerkoff in the late-80s and through the 90s because I was too busy watching the greatest basketball player ever in his prime dominate his sport. I wasn't hanging out with him on the golf course.

    Nash is right. It doesn't matter at all. It may matter to people as to whether or not they personally are a fan of SCSA (and that's totally valid), but it doesn't impact the things he accomplished as a pro wrestler. Flair was a drunk asshole for most of his career. So what? Shawn Michaels was a pill popping dickhead for the first half of his career. Viewing these guys and their accomplishments at their jobs through some sort of moralistic lens is god damn weird. Honestly, there's only a few guys out there I can think of that did something so heinous that it affects how I view their accomplishments, Benoit being the most obvious. I'm fine with the industry pretending like he never existed. But, just because I have no interest in ever watching his matches again, even that doesn't mean that he wasn't still one of the best in ring wrestlers ever.

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    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Let's say we get another 5 years worth out of Austin. Does that completely change the landscape of the WWE if we get Austin until he's 45? Think of the talent he didn't get work with and pretend everyone still gets to the spot they're in but Austin just so happens to be active.

    You have to think we'd get Austin v. Hogan, Lesnar, Goldberg, Guerrero, Batista, Cena, and Orton for sure. Rematches with HBK, Rock, Undertaker, Kurt Angle, Jericho, Edge, Christian, RVD, Triple H, etc. That would probably have just been his 2003-2006 stretch. CM Punk would be coming in. If we could have squeezed just 5 more years out of him I think that would have incredible, sadly just wasn't possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beer-Belly View Post
    I think Austin fucked up his shoulder throwing punches at Rusev at WrestleMania 32. Unless it's something with Rock or Punk, he ain't coming back.
    Austin had a bad shoulder coming into that show. He just had work done and was very reticent to try to throw hands, but he did it anyway, and kind of made it worse for himself.

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    You know, given that a lot of the procedures that could possibly fix Austin's neck didn't exist back when he retired in 2003, there's a good chance we could see Austin/Goldberg in Saudi Arabia or something. If he wanted to let them, they could probably fix Austin up.

    Look at Edge. Look at Daniel Bryan. Hell, look at Kurt Angle before either of them.

    At this point, I don't think its Austin physically not being able to wrestle. I think mentally and emotionally, he's just moved passed the business, and he just doesn't want to.

  39. #39
    Top Hulkamaniac Bluegunn's Avatar
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    I am kinda glad we never got to see Austin fed to Lesnar especially with no build up.

    It was kind of like when he faced Hogan. It was nice to see, but could have been so much more.

    I think if we get one more go it will probably be a Cinematic match.
    Last edited by Bluegunn; July 5th, 2020 at 11:25 PM.

  40. #40
    ~POWER~ Tempest's Avatar
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    The issue with wanting more was always how abruptly ended it seemed. He had just come back and then a few months later that was it. I hated that. Massive, massive name. No final match, no documentary, just done. Then he comes back as an on screen personality who could only do so much which didn't have the same clout. I remember him fighting back against Kane when he unmasked and went after Lesnar and just wanting more.

    Looking back, I do think he did the right thing. He had come off of an era that was all about him. Then he changed things about and had a brilliant 2001. 02 hit and his injuries started to show and as a character he had become stunted. I don't doubt that he could have turned it round in that regard, but he was struggling to keep it up physically. I don't think long term he would have fit in either. It was a giant hole at first in terms of massive stars, but what really would he have done? Fueded with HHH? He would now be someone we talk about as killing all new talent.

    Regardless. However we measure things, the guy is the greatest ever in my opinion. I don't care about longevity because time dictates that - 80s, 90s, 00s... it all changes. I value what he did more than Hogan and the like personally, because he did this in a time where folk generally saw wrestling for what it really is and didn't care (as opposed to the low brow, fake idea that usually is used). It didnt matter that it was 'fake' because Austin was fucking cool eitherway.

    But yeah. For me, there's Taker, Austin and to a lesser extent, Jericho. Austin had this intensity that I just dont get from anyone else; from the entrance, to every little action in the ring. Can't touch the guy as far as I'm concerned and will always ignore to the contrary.

  41. #41
    Furry, Filthy and Fun Badger's Avatar
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    Austin’s last match may not have been hyped or built up but at the same time it was perfect. He put over his greatest rival (not including Vince, I mean in the ring) in the Rock in a really underrated yet entertaining match. It would have been great if they hammered that point home afterwards.

    Then they fucking spoiled that moment a month later along with Rock’s momentum by having him be a mere stepping stone for Goldberg. Hated that match.
    Last edited by Badger; July 8th, 2020 at 7:13 PM.

  42. #42
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tempest View Post
    The issue with wanting more was always how abruptly ended it seemed. He had just come back and then a few months later that was it. I hated that. Massive, massive name. No final match, no documentary, just done. Then he comes back as an on screen personality who could only do so much which didn't have the same clout. I remember him fighting back against Kane when he unmasked and went after Lesnar and just wanting more.

    Looking back, I do think he did the right thing. He had come off of an era that was all about him. Then he changed things about and had a brilliant 2001. 02 hit and his injuries started to show and as a character he had become stunted. I don't doubt that he could have turned it round in that regard, but he was struggling to keep it up physically. I don't think long term he would have fit in either. It was a giant hole at first in terms of massive stars, but what really would he have done? Fueded with HHH? He would now be someone we talk about as killing all new talent.

    Regardless. However we measure things, the guy is the greatest ever in my opinion. I don't care about longevity because time dictates that - 80s, 90s, 00s... it all changes. I value what he did more than Hogan and the like personally, because he did this in a time where folk generally saw wrestling for what it really is and didn't care (as opposed to the low brow, fake idea that usually is used). It didnt matter that it was 'fake' because Austin was fucking cool eitherway.

    But yeah. For me, there's Taker, Austin and to a lesser extent, Jericho. Austin had this intensity that I just dont get from anyone else; from the entrance, to every little action in the ring. Can't touch the guy as far as I'm concerned and will always ignore to the contrary.
    When he took the F5 from Lesnar way back I thought, oh shit, he might be coming back. It's just the nature of the beast. We see all these legends "retire" and then come back 4-5 times.

    It is wild to think about how Austin and The Rock both said they quietly retired. Obviously The Rock came out of retirement but it is strange. Shawn Michaels, that first time due to the back injury he never got a send off he was just gone.

    Like I mentioned, there were a laundry list of names he could have worked with if we got another 5 years, hell another 1 year we could have had him against, at the very least, Hulk Hogan, Lesnar, and Eddie Guerrero who he was just starting a program with before walked out. Austin was on such a level that I definitely don't think people would say he was killing new talent. I would have much rather had Austin around the next couple years than Triple H. Just by association Austin could elevate talent and it's no secret that the roster suffered from not getting those matches against the likes of Austin the same way the 94-95 roster suffered from not getting to work with Hogan. Instead Diesel had to try and get over by working with Sid and Mabel and Bret had to work with a dentist and Jerry Lawler....

  43. #43
    Main Eventer Horatio's Avatar
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    Yeah, if it comes down to energy Austin is right up there in the spectrum with guys like The Rock and Benoit, and above them, if I had to say.

    At a certain point, when he was allowed to do something brilliant, he really exemplified "electrifying" in a way that guys like Sting and Warrior couldn't really match up to.

    Did Vince want to throw him under the Lesnar bus because he wanted to work undercard Guerrero?

  44. #44
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    Interesting reading some of the arguments in here.
    @3puppies I just cannot put Bruno up there as WWF was just a regional promotion at the time. Hogan and Austin both brought the business to unheard of levels so on that basis they should be top 2.

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    I understand that being somewhat of a knock on Bruno, and I acknowledged that the respective eras they came from were so very different. If you choose to give a higher weight to drawing power merely on the basis that Austin and Hogan worked in a travelling era, that's your perspective. Hogan and Austin also worked in an era when talent visited a given city only two or three times a year, while Bruno was selling out the Garden EVERY MONTH. Bruno was also a huge draw whenever he traveled - he sold out arenas in LA, Chicago, St Louis, as well as in Canada, Australia, and Japan. He was one of the original global superstars.

    So in the categories that I listed above in determining the GOAT, (ring work, drawing power, mic work, merch, longevity, other) and again, we can weight them however we like, where would you factor in the impact of regional vs national performer? I'd argue it would have to fall under drawing power. All things considered, I don't think there's a great way to compare eras that all of us will agree on.

    I will grant you that the intensity/energy Austin brought out of a crowd was absolutely tremendous - dare I say STUNNING. If folks want to discount longevity or ring work in favor of merch sales, I can see how they could come to a different conclusion than I have.

    But I maintain it'd be just plain wrong to suggest anyone other than Bruno is the GOAT even if I concede that Austin, even with his shortened career, is worthy of belonging in the conversation.

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