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Thread: Dark Side of the Ring

  1. #1
    شهادة مكتوبة Fro's Avatar
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    Dark Side of the Ring



    I don't come into this forum much so if this has already been discussed, go ahead and direct me to where that happened. I haven't finished part 1 yet in fact I'm only about 10 minutes in but it seems like a good doc. Did you guys watch?

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    Main Eventer Horatio's Avatar
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    I opted not to watch. Seemed like old news to me.

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    Once upon a time... kdestiny's Avatar
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    I'm looking forward to the second half of this episode and the one on Owen a lot

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    Damn, Vicki. Admitting that she took the kids to school instead of calling 911 for an overdosing Eddie.

    Kinda cunty, if ya ask me

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    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Wow. What a part one. Definitely hit me in the feels when they get to the Eddie stuff.

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    Watched Part one last night wow is all I can say. When is part 2 aired?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinner View Post
    Damn, Vicki. Admitting that she took the kids to school instead of calling 911 for an overdosing Eddie.

    Kinda cunty, if ya ask me
    Don’t know why but this randomly cane into my head this afternoon, I was like WOOOOOAH. I’m guessing she was just sick of it all and maybe tried scare tactics.

  8. #8
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Scott View Post
    Watched Part one last night wow is all I can say. When is part 2 aired?
    Part 2 is on YouTube as we speak.

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    Was just 10 mins into watching it, then it came up Vice took it down.

  10. #10
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    For people in the UK:

    Part One - https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7sum1d

    Part Two - https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7sx5k0

    That was incredibly difficult watch, yet required viewing for any fan of the era. The series was great to begin with, but this is another level.

  11. #11
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    Watching that was so difficult. Benoit was one of my favourites not just technically in the ring but also his journey to main-event level in WWE breaking down barriers. The Eddie stuff in part one was just heartbreaking, Iím not gonna bash Vicki for what she did at the time as her state of mind was no doubt all over the place and people react to these things in different way.

    The CTE stuff was quite fascinating. Benoit appeared to show signs at a very early age and just got worse over time.

    The crime reconstruction footage was the most difficult to watch out of all of this.

    David and Sandra undoubtedly went through all sorts of hell and much love to Jericho for being able to reconnect them after all these years.

  12. #12
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Scott View Post
    Was just 10 mins into watching it, then it came up Vice took it down.
    Are you here in the US? If so I'm literally watching the Vice version as we speak.

  13. #13
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JP View Post
    For people in the UK:

    Part One - https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7sum1d

    Part Two - https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7sx5k0

    That was incredibly difficult watch, yet required viewing for any fan of the era. The series was great to begin with, but this is another level.
    Whenever I think of Benoit and this whole situation it takes me back to that tribute on Raw. I remember watching it, and just being completely shocked because the majority of people I don't think really knew what happened. I remember I couldn't even finish it, I put the video tape in and just recorded the rest of the show.

    The next morning my ex wife and son are at a store called "1/2 Price Store" and they sold some wrestlers and there was a Benoit figure so my ex wife bought it for my son who was like 7-8 at the time. By the time she got home and called me to tell me "Hey I just bought a Benoit figure" I had pretty much heard he had killed his family and she felt horrible. It was no different at the time than when a wrestler left and you knew the figures would be hard as fuck to find so that was her mentality even back then.

    The weird part is that we didn't toss it or anything. He opened up in the car and looking back we probably should have but I don't know, maybe that's extreme.

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    R.I.P Vader Brock Kasady's Avatar
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    Ugh, this was harder to watch than I imagined. It wasn't the same for me after Benoit died. There's still lots of strange stuff though, like how he was apparently lucid enough to send text messages about the dogs. He killed his own son, but spared the dogs? We'll never have all of the answers. The part in the documentary when Chavo pauses and says it was like Benoit had lost his spouse seemed very close to the truth. I feel like that part of the story has been lost over the years. I feel like there's more we could find out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nash Diesel View Post
    Are you here in the US? If so I'm literally watching the Vice version as we speak.
    In UK.

    I’ve just watched part 2 thanks to the links JP posted.

  16. #16
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Kasady View Post
    Ugh, this was harder to watch than I imagined. It wasn't the same for me after Benoit died. There's still lots of strange stuff though, like how he was apparently lucid enough to send text messages about the dogs. He killed his own son, but spared the dogs? We'll never have all of the answers. The part in the documentary when Chavo pauses and says it was like Benoit had lost his spouse seemed very close to the truth. I feel like that part of the story has been lost over the years. I feel like there's more we could find out.
    The part where they dive in a little about CTE plus if you read up on other athletes who have been found to have CTE, it's very scary how they basically evolve into all the worst parts of their mentality. It's almost like the darkness inside of you becomes more and more prevalent as time goes on.

    You add in steroid use, drugs/alcohol, the everyday stresses of being in a relationship, having kids, having a physically and mentally demanding profession. It's very sad but at the time does put a lot of people at ease.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Scott View Post
    In UK.

    I’ve just watched part 2 thanks to the links JP posted.
    That explains it buddy. I think part 2 made me cry a little more than part 1.

  17. #17
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    Part 1 is what I cried the most at, mostly because of the Eddie Guerrero stuff. I mean Chavo saying his passed away in his arms making the gargling noise just heartbreaking.

    Was obvious when Eddie went, Chris was too far gone. Nice to see David and Sandra have a close relationship after it all.

  18. #18
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    It's so dead in the office that I watched quite a few of these shows over the last 2 days. I've watched the Montreal Screwjob, The Von Erichs, and Macho Man/Elizabeth episodes.

    Never really knew a ton about the Von Erichs. Mainly what most of us knew but nothing too deep. I still remember my mom coming home with one of those Star magazines you'd find in the checkout lane at stores and they had a piece about Texas Tornado killing himself. I don't think I actually believed it at the time because of the type of magazine it was. Not to mention....How many of us grew up being told there were like 12 Ultimate Warriors? Just a sad story for that family in general.

  19. #19
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    I watched all those you mentioned in a day last month. Loved them all especially the Von Erichs one as that was the least I knew about.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I mean the bit about Kerry Von Erich having a fake leg threw me off, I was like no way.

  20. #20
    Intercontinental Champion Jarrod1983's Avatar
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    Gave this a watch. It was as sad as I thought it'd be. I really got behind Benoit as a fan growing up. I tend not to watch Benoit's stuff but when he does pop up it is hard to deny how great he was. Then you remember what he did. It just sucks.

  21. #21
    Fuck you Roman... Tim's Avatar
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    Jericho’s response to the Benoit tribute show was very similar to mine and probably a lot of others when they show Regal talking about Benoit. Me and my brother were watching that live and thinking everyone is going on about how great of a guy Benoit is and Regal is like “Yeah... he was a good wrestler...” and that was when we first thought that this probably is a lot more tragic than we know.

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    I'm more down with Cody's response:

    I don't want to see anything to do with this guy since then.

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    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NWo4LifeOr2Years View Post
    I'm more down with Cody's response:

    I don't want to see anything to do with this guy since then.
    Well, his neck tattoo is about on par with the Benoit tragedy.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nash Diesel View Post
    Well, his neck tattoo is about on par with the Benoit tragedy.


    It looks like a bar code

    I can't wait until the next vignette when Lance Archer beats Cody up in a grocery store and then Jake the Snake orders Archer to stuff Cody through the scanner on the checkout.

  25. #25
    Fuck you Roman... Tim's Avatar
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    Just watched the New Jack episode, what an asshole. He justifies almost murdering people because they said the N word according to him or that he wanted revenge.

    It’s also really fucking stupid how people try and make it Mass Transits fault because he lied about his age and he didn’t follow the wrestling chain of command. He was 17 and had no real wrestling experience but he should know how to carry himself in the lockerroom? His Dad is also horrible too.

    But yeah the whole episode made me angry.

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    Once upon a time... kdestiny's Avatar
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    What an insane dude.

    Don't tell him that to his face though

  27. #27
    X Ringo's Avatar
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    Watched Part 1. Am I the only one who wasn't aware that Kevin Sullivan had allegedly beaten up Nancy? It was Nancy's sister saying as much here and I remember listening to her appearance on Jericho's podcast years ago (essential listening btw) but don't recall that ever coming up. Strange.

    Hard to watch Vickie, Chavo, etc. talking about Eddie's death. Even harder to hear David Benoit talking about his father's death. And particularly when he said only Chavo and Jericho from the world of wrestling had reached out to him.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ringo View Post
    Watched Part 1. Am I the only one who wasn't aware that Kevin Sullivan had allegedly beaten up Nancy? It was Nancy's sister saying as much here and I remember listening to her appearance on Jericho's podcast years ago (essential listening btw) but don't recall that ever coming up. Strange.

    Hard to watch Vickie, Chavo, etc. talking about Eddie's death. Even harder to hear David Benoit talking about his father's death. And particularly when he said only Chavo and Jericho from the world of wrestling had reached out to him.
    Yeah, I found the Sullivan stuff a little out of nowhere too. I'll be interested to hear Cornette's upcoming interview with him about it.

    The way they framed David throughout was really effective. His nervousness manifests itself in smiling and they used that brilliantly to let the audience paint a false picture until the reveal at the end. It makes the emotional impact have even more weight than it would move, which was hefty to begin with.

  29. #29
    X Ringo's Avatar
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    The ending was fantastic. It was so lovely to see that David and Sandra had been brought together again by Jericho. The trauma of what happened in 2007 will have completely shaped their lives and will continue to do so - but they are both innocent victims of what happened and the notion that in spite of everything they can come back together as family and make attempts to move forward in their lives was quite profound.

    One thing I noticed though - in Sandra's appearance on Jericho's podcast I think she came across as a bit more forgiving of Chris than she did here. I don't know whether something had changed between the recording of that podcast and the filming of this doc or whether the makers of this decided to try and portray her as not being quite so forgiving. Anyway, as I said before, that podcast is really worth listening to. To hear her talk about how understandably traumatised he is by her sister's murder and yet simultaneously speak quite openly about Chris in often quite praiseworthy terms is really quite something.

  30. #30
    FBI Warning VHS's Avatar
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    Just watched the Brawl For All episode and lord... Bart just seems like a good dude. And Russo not understanding his wake just goes to show how trash he is. And seeing Droz now breaks my heart.

  31. #31
    شهادة مكتوبة Fro's Avatar
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    I finally got to part 2 of the Benoit series. Really great doc and the ending with the son and sister getting reunited was touching. It's crazy how much David looks like Chris. I do believe CTE was a main cause and felt the doc covered that element appropriately without overdoing it.

    If mods want to change the thread title to "Dark Side of the Ring Docuseries" since other episodes are being discussed in here, feel free. I haven't seen any of the others but want to check out the Montreal Screwjob one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fro View Post
    I finally got to part 2 of the Benoit series. Really great doc and the ending with the son and sister getting reunited was touching. It's crazy how much David looks like Chris. I do believe CTE was a main cause and felt the doc covered that element appropriately without overdoing it.

    If mods want to change the thread title to "Dark Side of the Ring Docuseries" since other episodes are being discussed in here, feel free. I haven't seen any of the others but want to check out the Montreal Screwjob one.
    I've seen every one, they are magnificent.

  33. #33
    Mia Yim? Mia Yum... Spudz Mackenzie's Avatar
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    Any documentary that can claim the Benoit murder-suicide was due to CTE and not manage to completely disabuse Benoit of any blame is good to me.

    There's so many "documentaries" on Youtube and different places that want Benoit's concussion history to be the "smoking gun" of the crime and essentially be Benoit's "get out of jail free card".

    Concussion issues can be a large contributing factor, but no matter how many times you watch Benoit have a 5-star match with Jushin Liger in Japan in 1995, you still can't really take the man out of the crime and the actions.

    Ted Dibiase once said that Benoit leaving a Bible by Daniel's head after he strangled him was a contritious act. So Benoit wasn't in full-on "The Devi made me do it!" mode, due to his head trauma. There was still enough man there to feel remorse, so there should have been enough man there to not do it.

  34. #34
    Mia Yim? Mia Yum... Spudz Mackenzie's Avatar
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    I actually haven't watched either part of the Benoit episode yet.

    Do they talk about how Bob Holly could have saved everybody's lives if he'd gone to Benoit's house for lunch instead of going to the gym instead?

  35. #35
    شهادة مكتوبة Fro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spudz Mackenzie View Post
    I actually haven't watched either part of the Benoit episode yet.

    Do they talk about how Bob Holly could have saved everybody's lives if he'd gone to Benoit's house for lunch instead of going to the gym instead?
    No they seemingly left that part out

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fro View Post
    No they seemingly left that part out
    It was in Bob's book. He was going to drive up and see Benoit for lunch, the morning of the day Benoit killed everybody. The way Holly tells it, he thinks if Benoit had another "no bullshit man" to vent to, about his frustrations, maybe Chris wouldn't have been stressed to the point of snapping.

    But instead of going for lunch, Holly thought Benoit would rather relax at home with Nancy, since he was just coming off the road.

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  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ringo View Post
    The ending was fantastic. It was so lovely to see that David and Sandra had been brought together again by Jericho. The trauma of what happened in 2007 will have completely shaped their lives and will continue to do so - but they are both innocent victims of what happened and the notion that in spite of everything they can come back together as family and make attempts to move forward in their lives was quite profound.

    One thing I noticed though - in Sandra's appearance on Jericho's podcast I think she came across as a bit more forgiving of Chris than she did here. I don't know whether something had changed between the recording of that podcast and the filming of this doc or whether the makers of this decided to try and portray her as not being quite so forgiving. Anyway, as I said before, that podcast is really worth listening to. To hear her talk about how understandably traumatised he is by her sister's murder and yet simultaneously speak quite openly about Chris in often quite praiseworthy terms is really quite something.
    I was confused for a moment as I thought by 'Chris', you meant Jericho, and I was wondering why Jericho had to be forgiven for anything here.

  39. #39
    Once upon a time... kdestiny's Avatar
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    This Dark Side on Herb Abrams is insane!

    Had no idea about any of this stuff

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by kdestiny View Post
    This Dark Side on Herb Abrams is insane!

    Had no idea about any of this stuff
    Herb Abram's UWF is the stuff WrestleCrap is made of.

    - "Davey Boy Meltzer" named after Uncle Dave, because Meltz always crapped on UWF's shows.
    - False advertising big names constantly.
    - Getting enough money together for one appearance by a "name" and then never following it up, because they couldn't afford him again.
    - Herb Abrams dying of a cocaine heart attack, while surrounded by naked hookers, and covered in baby oil.

    There's so much "carny" in the UWF, we could take it around, set it up, and charge admission.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by kdestiny View Post
    This Dark Side on Herb Abrams is insane!

    Had no idea about any of this stuff
    I'd only heard his name here and there, but had no idea either about the whole story. What a shit show.

  42. #42
    Intercontinental Champion Jarrod1983's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kdestiny View Post
    This Dark Side on Herb Abrams is insane!

    Had no idea about any of this stuff
    I got a kick out of seeing the "Mr. Electricity" nickname on TV with Herb's name in the doc. I remember in Foley's first book, Foley wrote about how Herb said the ladies called him Mr. Electricity because when he plugs it in, it really turns them on. Such a great, sleazy line.

  43. #43
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    Been binging these the last couple days and I'm almost caught up. Watching the Dino Bravo one right now and then I've got to track down the Bruiser Brody episode.

    Really enjoying it overall. Loved the Brawl for All episode. Benoit was the best one, it was fascinating to hear from his son. I had never heard that Kevin Sullivan hit Nancy but that puts the guys not trusting him in WCW in a more full context.

    What future episodes would you want to see? Brian Pillman seems like an obvious one. The McMahon steroid trial would be a good one. Rita Chatterton and the other sexual abuse scandals from the early 90s.

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    WWF's black ring announcer being a creepy pedo with a foot fetish and WWF keeping it quiet.

    Vince and Hogan busting up Jesse Ventura's attempt at a union.

    A look at former WWF stars on the indie circuit today.

    Iron Sheik's downward spiral.

    The circumstances behind Rick Rude's back injury, return to wrestling, him training for a return to in-ring action, and his death.

    The Diva Search. (Yes, really.)

    Tough Enough.

    WCW's Power Plant.

    The controversy around Bill Demott's training style and alleged misconduct.

    Apartment wrestling and modern day female wrestlers doing Instagram "custom photo shoots" for paying fans.

    Backyard wrestling.

    Ring rats.

    A special on creepy stalker fans who went too far.

    Japan's attempt at mixing real fighting with pro-wrestling.
    Last edited by Spudz Mackenzie; May 9th, 2020 at 6:29 PM.

  45. #45
    Mia Yim? Mia Yum... Spudz Mackenzie's Avatar
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    Sable's mid-90's lawsuit against the WWF. -- A lot of people forget about this one, but there's a lot there. Sable sued to get out of her contract when, in her words, WWF wanted Sable to engage in on-screen "lesbian activity" with another female talent.

    If you remember the Torrie Wilson/Sable bikini contest that essentially became a softcore porno sex scene on Smackdown! when Sable came back, she really went back on that.

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    I'd love to see them spend a whole season on Vince. I think you could get ten parts out of that if you dug deep.

    1) Growing up in a trailer park in North Carolina, being abused, meeting his dad.
    2) College, meeting Linda, breaking into wrestling.
    3) Buying the company from his dad and early years running the show, covering up the Snuka murder
    4) Going national, Black Saturday, Wrestlemania.
    5) National success and the dark side of it: drugs, steroids, rape allegations
    6) Downfall of the WWF in the early 90s and the steroid trial
    7) The Monday Night War, Montreal Screwjob
    8) Buying WCW, the XFL, Triple H and Stephanie's marriage, rebranding as WWE
    9) WWE's growth internationally, Benoit and Guerrero's deaths, drug testing and going PG
    10) His later years, the Saudi deal, network TV, his legacy in wrestling

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    X Ringo's Avatar
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    I'd love a whole series on Vince.

    Also:

    The death of Rikidozan

    Rock & Roll Buck Zumhofe

    Hardbody Harrison

    Bruiser Bedlam

    Grizzly Smith

    The Dynamite Kid

    Rob Feinstein/ROH

    Rob Black/XPW

    Chyna

    Chris Kanyon

    Ashley Massaro - an investigation into what may have happened in Kuwait

    Chris Candido & Tammy Lynn Sytch

    WWE's relationship with Saudi Arabia

    Ken Patera + Masa Saito + Boulder + McDonalds

    The Plane Ride from Hell/bullying culture in the WWE locker room

    The rise of All Japan and the King's Road and the deterioration of the wrestlers involved/Misawa's death

    Jeff Hardy's struggles/Victory Road

    La Parkita and Espectrito II's murder at the hands of two prostitutes

    the rise and fall of Koji Kitao

    The death of Hiromitsu Gompei

    The death of Abismo Negro

  48. #48
    Mia Yim? Mia Yum... Spudz Mackenzie's Avatar
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    CM Punk's WWE career, the staph infection, almost being Z-Packed to death, The Colt Cabana podcast, winning his lawsuit, and his eventual return to WWE TV.

  49. #49
    R.I.P Vader Brock Kasady's Avatar
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    You could do an episode with Vince buying controlling interest in Georgia & Fall of Crockett.

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    I binge watched all the episodes (minus Benoit) this week.

    Theyre highly entertaining and somewhat informative but definitely tell the story that they want to tell as opposed to doing an exhaustive investigative journalistic story where they check all the facts and do a lot of digging.

    For example, on the UWF story, they were purposely giving low numbers on the butyrate and attendance for the ppv'. It wasn't hard to find, at least Brian Zane had exact numbers, like "783 in attendance at MGM". Where they were saying 100, 200 repeatedly. Also the butyrate for the other ppv was 10,000 and they were saying 100 or 1000. You don't need to exaggerate to prove how bad something is.

    They did it on a number of episodes, leaving out parts of the story that doesn't fit their agenda etc.

    Or saying things like implying Andre the Giant was working for Dino Bravo in Montreal in 1985-86. Everybody knows Vince pulled Andre back to the WWF to be exclusive in 1984 .

    Many many more examples but you get my point. Hardly historical records of the actual events to go on although they add some nice tidbits like Jake the Snake on Gino Hernadez's cocaine use:

    "yes I was there. Yes I was doing cocaine with him. How much? Well I can tell you it sure as hell wasnt no eight ball the night I was there."

  51. #51
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    This has been a good series. I love watching it. I'm currently on season 1, ep 5. I can't wait to see the Benoit episodes and there will be an episode on Owen Hart as well later this month.

  52. #52
    X Ringo's Avatar
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    Well the Owen episode was very moving. Particularly the closing lines from Oje and Martha. They all deserve everyone's respect for the strength and pride they've shown through everything. Goes without saying that they have been unfairly vilified by some idiotic wrestling fans who decided to paint Martha as some kind of selfish bitch for not wanting Owen to go into the WWE's HOF. I even recall the reaction to Mark Henry's speech a couple of years ago - that Martha deserved to be called out for her petty behaviour so that in spite of everything she could be guilted into allowing her late husband to get a mention at the HOF ceremony between Stacy Keibler and Flo Rida. It all seems a bit silly now.

    I see that Martha has done a free interview with Meltzer that's on his site and she's said that even though WWE told the press they paid for Owen's funeral at the time, they never did. JR relaying the way Kevin Dunn gave him the news of Owen's death in the documentary was something as well.

  53. #53
    GO ON LAD Fanny Batter's Avatar
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    It's just incredible to me the show went on. They literally play fought over a fucking crime scene on worldwide PPV. Now, I don't put full blame on Vince there - it's ethically egregious of course and a major blight on his character - but what were the authorities in Kansas City playing at? Somebody died like that under their jurisdiction. Not an old, ill man dying of cancer, a young, healthy athlete falling out of the ceiling in front of 20,000 people. Just staggering that it wasn't screened off, witnesses interviewed, evidence collected, etc. If a man had a heart attack in a street they'd cordon the area off, a man died through something that would absolutely require investigation, accident or no accident, and they wrestled over it.

    I haven't seen the episode yet, but it seems consistent with everything I have learnt about pro wrestlers since the curtain came up. Most of them just take it too seriously, don't they. Putting a wrestling context (the Hall of Fame - a Network show, chance for a live gate and a pay day for the wrestlers, essentially their Walk of Fame) on the death of a colleague is just preposterous when you think about it. Like everybody who needs to know knows how good he was. He's in the tier of folks that deserve accolades for their work, but it's just pro wrestling. It doesn't matter. Life matters, his wife and kids matter the most to his, and they don't want it. Shut case. Imagine taking a pay cheque from the folks that continued a pro wrestling show literally on top of the blood of your dead father.

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ringo View Post
    I'd love a whole series on Vince.

    Also:

    The death of Rikidozan

    Rock & Roll Buck Zumhofe

    Hardbody Harrison

    Bruiser Bedlam

    Grizzly Smith

    The Dynamite Kid

    Rob Feinstein/ROH

    Rob Black/XPW

    Chyna

    Chris Kanyon

    Ashley Massaro - an investigation into what may have happened in Kuwait

    Chris Candido & Tammy Lynn Sytch

    WWE's relationship with Saudi Arabia

    Ken Patera + Masa Saito + Boulder + McDonalds

    The Plane Ride from Hell/bullying culture in the WWE locker room

    The rise of All Japan and the King's Road and the deterioration of the wrestlers involved/Misawa's death

    Jeff Hardy's struggles/Victory Road

    La Parkita and Espectrito II's murder at the hands of two prostitutes

    the rise and fall of Koji Kitao

    The death of Hiromitsu Gompei

    The death of Abismo Negro
    Ultimate Warrior would be a good one.

    I think Chyna and the Chris Candido story are a must.

  55. #55
    R.I.P Vader Brock Kasady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fanny Batter View Post
    Shut case. Imagine taking a pay cheque from the folks that continued a pro wrestling show literally on top of the blood of your dead father.
    The blood in the ring was from a bloodbath the Brood gave the Hardys on Sunday Night Heat. Matt Hardy touched the canvas with his hand, and the stain was there during the opening two matches on the PPV. I'm surprised the show didn't clear that up.

  56. #56
    Fuck you Roman... Tim's Avatar
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    They did make it seem like the blood was Owen’s. I thought it was kind of odd that Martha made the kids go to the arena and see where Owen fell from but I totally understand her not wanting Owen in the HOF. Its not really a thing anyway, its a TV show.

    I wonder if Martha would allow WWE to make a donation to the Owen Foundation.

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim View Post
    They did make it seem like the blood was Owen’s. I thought it was kind of odd that Martha made the kids go to the arena and see where Owen fell from but I totally understand her not wanting Owen in the HOF. Its not really a thing anyway, its a TV show.

    I wonder if Martha would allow WWE to make a donation to the Owen Foundation.
    It did seem odd but I get the logic from Martha's perspective. I probably wouldn't have done it until they were older but I'm not the parent.

    That's a good question about the donation.

  58. #58
    Born a loser Peter Griffin's Avatar
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    Well the ep didn't really change my feelings to WWE as it was a joke the event carried on and negligence was obvious a long time ago, I would have liked to have seen a longer clip of Vince getting pissy about someone's tone as I didn't fully get what was going on.

    I definitely got a lot more towards Martha and the kids way of thinking regarding the HOF.

    I do think it's sad we will never see him celebrated In WWE but at least now I hundred percent get it.

  59. #59
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    In terms of Owen in the Hall of Fame. It'll happen. Bruno was 80 years old and was 100x the icon the majority of people in the HOF were and look how long it took them. People can say "Oh it's not a real hall of fame" Eh fuck off lol. It's not even a real sport so to even have one in general makes no sense because what are you celebrating?

  60. #60
    GO ON LAD Fanny Batter's Avatar
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    He's celebrated more than most of the people that go in the Hall of Fame, though. WWE are always putting out lists where he's involved, best factions, best matches, best wrestling families etc. You don't see Godfather or Koko B Ware in many of those things. His legacy is his body of work, his body of work is celebrated, there's no reason to embellish that with a posthumous induction to a thing that doesn't physically exist. There's no Canton or Atlanta, it's little more than a Wikipedia page.

    Bruno had issues with the credibility of wrestling and it's steroid abuse, he wasn't peeled off a canvas in Kansas City.

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    What if someone pushed Owen. What if it was a murder!

  62. #62
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fanny Batter View Post
    He's celebrated more than most of the people that go in the Hall of Fame, though. WWE are always putting out lists where he's involved, best factions, best matches, best wrestling families etc. You don't see Godfather or Koko B Ware in many of those things. His legacy is his body of work, his body of work is celebrated, there's no reason to embellish that with a posthumous induction to a thing that doesn't physically exist. There's no Canton or Atlanta, it's little more than a Wikipedia page.

    Bruno had issues with the credibility of wrestling and it's steroid abuse, he wasn't peeled off a canvas in Kansas City.
    I appreciate you going above and beyond to discredit the WWE's Hall of Fame simply because it lacks a building lol. Imagine if you won an Oscar but it didn't matter because we all can't go to a building to look at your accomplishments. I'd love to have a physical building for the WWE and it is odd they don't have it, but seriously, is that fucking end all be all?

    Point about Bruno wasn't his reasoning, moreso the time it took to finally get him in. Damn near 30 years. Who's to say 5-10-20 years from now Martha or even one of the kids if she passes doesn't give the greenlight?

    And if it never happens oh well, we move on but Jesus Christ how many people out there, both talent and fans, have been going "Owen not being in the WWE HOF is a travesty" His own blood has said for many years knowing full well WHY, but it's still something that a lot of WWE fans would like to see happen. And by fans I mean people who are fans of Owen Hart in general not just us regular Joe's.

    Quote Originally Posted by Donald View Post
    What if someone pushed Owen. What if it was a murder!
    Be a crazy twist

  63. #63
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    Why does WWE allow their footage to be used in a documentary that destroys them?

  64. #64
    Intercontinental Champion Jarrod1983's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donald View Post
    Why does WWE allow their footage to be used in a documentary that destroys them?
    I was wondering this myself.

  65. #65
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    It doesn't destroy them. We have to imagine a heavy majority of fans are not oblivious and know that with wrestling comes both the good and the bad. It's what makes this industry so unique in that part of what interests us as fans in general is the weird shit that goes on outside of the ring.

  66. #66
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    I wish Owen had said no to the stunt. I would think saying no to something like that would be acceptable, and there would be no punishment for saying no. Any punishment would have been better than what he received. It's just so heartbreaking to see a young widow and young children growing up without that much needed person in their life. In a way, it reminds me of my uncle, who died a few years ago from cancer, but left behind 2 very young children. I honestly think about it all the time. How is the world so cruel? Why do bad things happen to stand up men like Owen Hart and more recently Shad Gaspard, but awful, awful human beings walk the Earth with nothing ever happening to them?

    Vince McMahon, what an intimidating son of a bitch. "I don't like your tone" he says to a reporter. Jesus.

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nash Diesel View Post
    It doesn't destroy them. We have to imagine a heavy majority of fans are not oblivious and know that with wrestling comes both the good and the bad. It's what makes this industry so unique in that part of what interests us as fans in general is the weird shit that goes on outside of the ring.
    Still, it's a one sided documentary. I wish they had gotten Vince, or Kevin Dunn, or other people to say their side of things.

  68. #68
    Once upon a time... kdestiny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donald View Post
    Still, it's a one sided documentary. I wish they had gotten Vince, or Kevin Dunn, or other people to say their side of things.
    The creators have said they are more than willing to talk to those with WWE. I'm not sure WWE wants to really be involved in any way other than the footage, which could fall under fair use maybe?

    Bruce Prichard was interviewed in season one, wasn't involved in two which started up after he rejoined WWE.

    On their podcast with Conrad, they mentioned that an idea was floated that Owen would enter with Max Mini as a Mini Blue Blazer with him that night. As sad as it already is, that would've been really horrific.

  69. #69
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    Just wish it wasn't like "WWE killed our father, wrestling is evil" and "Martha is a nasty lady for not letting Owen into the HOF" I don't know how you'd come to an understanding over something like this, but I wish there was one.

  70. #70
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donald View Post
    I wish Owen had said no to the stunt. I would think saying no to something like that would be acceptable, and there would be no punishment for saying no. Any punishment would have been better than what he received. It's just so heartbreaking to see a young widow and young children growing up without that much needed person in their life. In a way, it reminds me of my uncle, who died a few years ago from cancer, but left behind 2 very young children. I honestly think about it all the time. How is the world so cruel? Why do bad things happen to stand up men like Owen Hart and more recently Shad Gaspard, but awful, awful human beings walk the Earth with nothing ever happening to them?

    Vince McMahon, what an intimidating son of a bitch. "I don't like your tone" he says to a reporter. Jesus.
    That reporter, like most who address professional wrestling, did have a shit tone.

    Especially back then, holy fuck. Wrestling was so popular the mainstream were doing anything and everything to shit on the business. That's why when the shit hits the fan for real like with Owen and Benoit or the steroid trial the mainstream media goes above and beyond.

  71. #71
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donald View Post
    Just wish it wasn't like "WWE killed our father, wrestling is evil" and "Martha is a nasty lady for not letting Owen into the HOF" I don't know how you'd come to an understanding over something like this, but I wish there was one.
    That's the narrative the show wanted us to see because there wasn't much else. It's pretty straight forward. The WWE should have stopped the ppv. The police above anything should have stopped the show and that was something I never thought of because I was too busy blaming WWE. Imagine if someone was shot and killed on a football field, they're not exactly calling a 5 minute timeout and then coming back.

    I still think we'll see Owen in the Hall of Fame. But I'm positive there is more to going into the WWE hall of fame than simply accepting a ring. And let's be honest, absolutely nothing to compare this situation too. A stunt performed many times gone wrong for various reasons that resulted in a good man's death.

  72. #72
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    Could you imagine if Oje wanted to be a pro wrestler. His mother would have a heart attack.

  73. #73
    Mia Yim? Mia Yum... Spudz Mackenzie's Avatar
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    Hearing Vince use that "I don't like your tone" line on a reporter in the 90's and then hearing Donald Trump use the same line in 2020 --- Its no wonder those two assholes are buddies.

    I haven't seen the episode yet, but that just struck me.

  74. #74
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    Can we get a Light Side of the Ring? Macho's wedding, Make a Wish, Boyhood Dream Coming True, Tony Nese Winning the CW Title, those sorts of things.

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