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Thread: WWilfred's Debate 3rd Place Play Off - Donald vs kdestiny

  1. #1
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    WWilfred's Debate 3rd Place Play Off - Donald vs kdestiny

    Wilfred’s 3rd Place Play-off - @Donald vs @kdestiny



    Commiserations for narrowly missing out on the finals. However now is the time to end on a high and restore your pride as Wilfred’s 3rd place is on the line!



    Now the following question may look familiar to you. This is the from the Donald vs Kev tie that was abandoned due to Kev no showing. The difference this time however is that the choices available will encompass the whole decade (2010-2019)


    Good news! You've found the legendary Time Machine of Guam. Using the Time Machine, you're now able to rewrite history. Of course, the only responsible use is fantasy booking.









    Topic - Your task is to select one WWE match from the last decade (2010-2019) that you would change the result for (participants in the actual match must stay the same). Explain how you would change the result, and how this change would have proven more beneficial moving forward. Demonstrate why your choice provides more benefit than your opponent's selection.



    RULES:



    - You have 7 days and 3 posts each in this debate. A maximum word count of 700 words per post will be allowed. Please do not go over this limit.



    - All posts must be done within the 7 day time limit so any posts made after the time limit will not count even if there is in an uneven number of posts at the end.



    - All posts must be staggered. You can't make your next post until the other debater has had their turn.



    - If there is a no-show from anyone after 120 hours, then their opponent who does turn up will automatically advance.



    - No editing of posts allowed unless it is for something spelling, grammatical mistakes or accidentally going over your word count. However you must come and inform myself or Badger first where we will approve them.



    - Pictures, gifs and videos can be used in literally unlimited amounts to support your point. Information should be self-contained within your post. For example, you can't post a link to an article and expect people to go read it. Quote it in your post.



    - Quoting words from your articles does count towards your word count but quoting your opponent does not.



    The order of posting will be determined by a coin toss. The coin toss has revealed that kdestiny will be going first!
    Last edited by Badger; March 16th, 2020 at 4:16 PM. Reason: Forgot to add WWE

  2. #2
    Once upon a time... kdestiny's Avatar
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    WWE has had several matches over the last decade that have been outstanding and have told a great story.

    With this question, we need to decide which outcome was wrong and should be changed and why our choice is the right one.

    I think you could rightly make an argument for a handful. The outcome you need to change should have reason. What came of it? Did the competitors involved look better coming out of it? What was the story moving forward?

    I feel no matter the outcome of a match it should do something to give those competitors something to build to in a positive way unless they are being written off.

    I have decided between several matches, and the one I have chosen Is one that could have been used as a springboard for some younger competitors to the upper midcard and even into the main event somewhat.

    What WWE did was stick to the status quo, which is certain cases isnít the worst thing. In this case I think it ruined the momentum that the losers had started to gain and didnít really give them an opportunity to get back on track because they had to keep their main guy strong.

    I have decided to choose...

    Team Nexus vs. Team Cena from Summerslam 2010

    You have a heel team that is young, but hungry. Theyíve been causing havoc since they debuted as a group. They have been doing this all as a group.

    So when they faced off against a hodgepodge group of guys Cena has brought together including someone who thought he should lead over Cena, the Great Khali (because big), and someone who should not have been in the ring at this point in his life.

    The group lost.

    How were we supposed to take the Nexus seriously when they have been defeated by this team with their two top members being taken out by Super Cena himself? This even after Wade Barrett gave Cena a DDT on the exposed concrete floor?

    What the hell?

    Yeah.

    This could have been the time to give Barrett the stamp of approval as a main event type guy, and even Gabriel as an assassin of sorts in the end. Instead, Cena defeated them both because heís gotta keep his Super going.

    This couldíve been the creation of the next great heel in WWE, but instead they upended their momentum before they even really got an opportunity to try it out. Sure, he got some title matches, but at this point he wasnít going to win. You almost knew that the end game was going to be Barrett putting Cena over. Itís the same story over and over...

    Even Jericho and Edge have admitted that Cena shouldíve taken the loss. They fought for Barrett to get that huge victory.

    Supposedly after the match even Cena admitted that him going over was wrong after he had fought for it.

    How often do you know of someone saying themselves going over was the wrong call?

    It was short sighted. It couldíve created a great heel group with two or three that could take starring roles while others couldíve been in the tag title or midcard title pictures. You make the next big heel main eventer who is ready for those title matches with a less predictable outcome and a less predictable feud with Cena afterwards as well.

    If that run wouldíve failed, at least you tried something different than you normally do.

    I donít think any of these guys really recovered completely. Sheffield would have a solid run as Ryback, Barrett would live in midcard limbo and Heath Slater is... still there I guess.

    So much more couldíve come out of this, and Cena wouldnít have looked weaker for it because he got his ass kicked.

    He was too worried about taking the loss, and I think long term this hurt him big time as well as hurting the Nexus for good.

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    WWE has always had that star throughout the generations. You've had your Hogans, your Warriors, Savages, Austins, Rocks, and Cenas. Not everyone can be "the guy", whether it's being injury prone, being forced, or some other bad luck. People booed the heck out of Roman Reigns for being pushed as the guy, even though he had all the talent in the world.

    Every so often a match comes along that can absolutely make that next star a thing. Sometimes a superstar slowly gains a following, fans cheer him or her for months. Then they get that match where absolutely they can be "the guy". Daniel Bryan is one who comes to mind. But often enough, good old WWE screws it up. One such match occurred towards the end of the decade.

    The date was November 2, 2018. The event was Crown Jewel. Roman Reigns forfeited the title due to his leukemia diagnosis. Unfortunate turn of events. But this was really WWE's time to turn the ship. Turn it in a completely new direction. Many thought this was going to happen when Roman was removed from the match and now it was just going to be Brock Lesnar vs. Braun Strowman for the vacated title. What happened was Baron Corbin hit Braun with the title, leading to Brock Lesnar getting the win after numerous F-5's. What was the point of this? None. The fans were already sick of having a part time champion the last time Lesnar was the champ. You had an over face in Braun Strowman, when his music hit the crowd immediately leapt to their feet. His Get These Hands and I'm Not Finished With You were really good catchphrases that the crowd can chant along to. He imporved immensely in the ring since the days of the Wyatt Family. Was in great shape.

    Braun Strowman should have won that match. A title run feuding with Corbin, then maybe turn him heel to face Rollins. Lesnar could have gone on a rampage for losing the title and feuded with other guys in high profile matches, matches that didn't need a title involved since Lesnar sells him feuds just by being Lesnar.

    There's a lot of poor booking decisions in WWE, but this is the most baffling of recent memory. Had a chance to create a new mega star, gain interest in the product. Instead they went with the part timer who doesn't really ever need a title.

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    Once upon a time... kdestiny's Avatar
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    You know what Donald, you may be onto something here.

    Youíve actually chosen a match I was considering by the same guidelines I mentioned earlier. Braun had probably gotten to his apex as a babyface and the crowd was very much behind him against Lesnar. Lesnar was kind of going through the motions so to speak so I can see the reasoning behind your pick.

    Yes, I very nearly chose... wait... you didnít choose their title bout at No Mercy 2017?

    Interesting...

    You chose the bout that had to be thrown together due to Roman Reignsí unfortunate diagnosis. Braun had cooled off as a face by this point. The thought of him feuding with Corbin over the title sends shivers down my spine. You should also realize by changing this outcome we may not get Sethís crowning pinfall over Brock at Wrestlemania. You donít get two of Brocks better matches on the way there vs. Daniel Bryan and Finn Balor.

    While that may sound great, you have to realize that without the Big Dog in the ring, they needed to go to something familiar. Brock is the final boss, and they were building Seth up to defeat that final boss during the point on your choice.

    My choice arguably ruined several careers and kept guys from reaching their potential basically before getting much momentum. Wade Barrett couldíve been the next big heel. Justin Gabriel couldíve been a huge player in the upper card. All of them had potential that was squashed by this hodgepodge team of guys.

    Brock had already beaten Strowman. At this point they needed something familiar with Roman being sidelined. You didnít even choose the right match between them here. You think building to a Braun/Corbin title feud is a good idea? Did you see what Rollins did with Corbin? It pretty much cooled down his run and he is one of the best in the business, imagine how damaging it couldíve been to Braun. Let alone another quick heel turn. After the one the previous year after losing to Brock, they would probably pair him with a team similarly to his recent heel run.

    Neither Braun or Brock look better in the end in your match change.

    Itís not even as if Braun lost clean either, he still looked pretty good regardless. By this point I think Braun had hit his ceiling. If they had pulled the trigger the first time I think he becomes the megastar.

    What comes out of him winning in your scenario? I think it becomes more bad than good.

    In my change, it is about building new stars. Stars that they desperately needed at this point. Things were really feeling repetitive. This was different and new and had the capability to make new stars.

    In your scenario, sure, Braun becomes champion, but what happens long term? Does he lose it back to Brock? Does Seth slay the Monster as opposed to the beast? Is that really better for both Brock and Braun?

    Wouldnít it be more fitting to have Braun get his title win in the states anyways, where the crowd would really react for him?

    I donít doubt that you had the best intentions with your choice Donald, but your choice is too little too late for Braun to truly be seen as the top guy.

    All of the Nexus still had time to develop, but this night took all of the wind out of their sails and they would never get it back. It would really take one of them a complete reset of character to even get a chance of becoming a world champion someday in Ryback. That should tell you all you need to know about how badly they messed up with the Nexus.

    Then they made the new Nexus and the Corre... and those were both useless too.

    My scenario gives you a chance at future stars. Yours gives you one too little too late.

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    The reason I went for Strowman and Lesnar at Saudi Arabia was because Roman having to leave shows that you can't just have one "The Guy". Roman can't just be the only one that the machine is behind. His cancer diagnosis was unfortunate, but it should have been a wake up call to WWE that you need to be behind multiple people. Yeah, you have your Lesnars, Ortons, Wyatts, but they are heels. You need white hot babyfaces. And the buzz about Roman being gone, you felt that energy that this could, and should, be the very moment a new star emerges. The Saudi Arabia events are known as being shit. Has there been one with universal praise? No. Because they make stupid booking decisions. Strowman winning the title would have had people talking, instead of yawning.

    Team Nexus vs. Team Cena, it was essentially a team of jobbers vs. a team of stars. The Nexus was successful because they usually outnumbered their opponents. It's hard to fend off an attack of 7 guys. But when your group of 7 is up against a team that involves four all time greats in Cena, Bryan, Edge, and Jericho, it doesn't make sense for Team Nexus to win. Team Nexus had 2, maybe 3 cause I'll be kind to Ryback here, that had any potential. Wade Barrett, Justin Gabriel, and Skip Sheffield. The rest were always destined to become jobbers to the stars. Tarver, Young, Otunga, failed unless a part of a tag team. Slater is good for comedy but that's about it.

    Only thing I would have changed about this match is I would have had Wade Barrett get disqualified, to keep him looking strong. Maybe take out Cena with a chair or something. Barrett was the only man they should have protected in that match. But since then, Barrett was injured an awful lot so do you want to invest in someone like that?

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    Once upon a time... kdestiny's Avatar
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    Strowman winning the title at this point wouldíve created some buzz, but he has cooled off since his last bout with Brock and wouldíve harmed the lead up to Mania.

    There is still a bunch of heat behind Brock as champ at that point, and you have to assume that Roman will not be coming back. Giving the title to Braun at this point is good for quick boost, but isnít helpful for the long term. The lead up to Mania you had Brock wrecking Rollins on the way there to garner sympathy for him. You donít get that in your scenario. Itís just a win for Braun with little build to it due to the circumstances.

    Sure, at the time it mightíve been a good idea to give it to Braun, but looking back they made the right decision. Itís always better to have a heel champion being chased by the babyface as a default. At this point they needed to go with what they were comfortable with. Plus, it seems at this point they didnít see Braun as World Champion material.

    The main reason you see Nexus as job guys because they lost as a team against seven singles stars. They werenít a group, there was even in fighting. The Nexus up to this point used the Shield playbook before the Shield was even thought about.

    Barrett should have gotten the victory because it was too early for protecting him. The Nexus needed to get the boost from the win to be taken seriously. Where they ended up based on your post proves my point. You say how they have always been seen that way, but they had a chance to be something more and they didnít take that chance because Super Cena,

    Cena didnít even need the win at this point, he was already over. Him losing to a group of killers like this wouldnít have hurt his credibility at all whatsoever. This couldíve been the way to create 2-3 top stars with a win here, but instead the poor Nexus was fed to Cena leading to the predictable Cena overcoming the odds blah blah blah....

    Cena even admitted after the match that he screwed up with that ending. You have guys who were on the winning side that disagreed with the finish, I think we know the right answer here.

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    I don't see how keeping the title on Lesnar was the right decision. He didn't need the title, he never has needed the title. Lesnar sells himself. Lesnar vs. Bryan, Styles, Balor, etc. Those are dream matches. No title is necessary. WWE pull out their best moments when backed to a wall. Reigns being forced out was one such moment and a chance for a change in course. Strowman is there week in and week out. The Universal Title and WWE title should be defended at every PPV, or at least have the champion present at every PPV. Your champion should represent the company. Lesnar is not that kind of person. I think WWE has always seen Strowman as world champion because they have protected him a lot, especially in feuds with Roman Reigns. It's always been a weapon or interference to cause Strowman's downfall. Heck, it took three guys to get the IC title off of him.

    As I said prior, most of the Nexus was throw away talent. They weren't protected because they just weren't good enough to be protected. Seven guys from a reality wrestling show that people laughed at more than took seriously. Perhaps it was designed from the very beginning to try to embarrass these talents, to see who could handle it.

    This match would be like if Hulk Hogan and the Ultimate Warrior or Macho Man teamed up to face the Rockers. You just know who should win, regardless if the Rockers has a man that has all the talent in the world and should be in a better position. If it had been John Cena, Cryme Tyme, Matt Hardy, MVP, Carlito and Chris Masters then yeah, that's more believable for Nexus to pick up victories. But you've got a legend in Bret Hart who had just returned. Edge. Chris Jericho. Living legends.

    Cena was the Hulk Hogan of the time. Your star player should rarely, ever lose, especially on the 2nd biggest show of the year. It's the feel good party of the summer baby, gotta end it with the good guys winning.

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    ROUND OVER!

    Voting commences now, here's how it works:

    - The winner of each tie will be chosen equally from 4 sources. 3 selected judges and a public vote.

    - The 3 selected judges who will PM their votes to Mazer and myself. The judges are @Jarrod1983, @Psycho666Soldier and @virmicious so please send us your votes. Each judge's vote will be worth one point each to the total overall score.

    - The 4th source is a public vote where readers can post in this thread who they felt had the better argument. The combined public vote will count as one point towards the overall score.

    - If there is a 2-2 score in the total score of a tie after all the judging and public voting, then special guest judge Mazer shall break the tie.

    - All votes must be backed up with solid reasoning. Anyone who just says stuff in their votes like "I voted for Mikey just because his argument was better or I agree with him" will be asked to elaborate on their vote further before it can be counted.

    Voting will be open for 7 days max, same length as the tie.

    VOTE NOW FOR THE COVETED BRONZE MEDAL IS AT STAKE!

  9. #9
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Tough call to make.

    Both have the right idea, the losses hurt more than helped. I felt Donald made great points in his 2nd and 3rd posts countering the talk of how if Cena didn't need the win at Summerslam, Lesnar definitely need the win in Saudi Arabia. He talked about how a win for Braun would have gave these Saudi shows more meaning and not more stupid booking decisions like Lesnar going over Braun.

    KD's argument rested heavy on Cena not needing the win which made his counters about Lesnar essentially being a smart booking choice, without really going into WHY it was the better decision, strange to me. Especially when talking about how Braun getting the title win would have possibly been a negative for long term booking, which we don't really know for certain. But Donald's talk of Wade's future riddled with injuries made his talk about how it was probably smart not to put too much into the group, including it's leader, might have been a smart choice in the long run.

    Donald for the W. A very close debate for bronze.

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    I have to go with @Donald as well. KD's major rebuttal was that Braun had already been weakened by a prior loss to Brock, but Donald addressed this very strongly, pointing out the different circumstances with Roman being out. I hadn't really thought that much about the Saudi shows not meaning anything, but he's absolutely right - they've been booked horribly especially at the top of the card.

    Great job by both guys.

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    Basic Bish virmicious's Avatar
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    germany
    Working on this now. Internet is out and I guess our 4g service is overwhelmed cause last night I couldnt get anything to load. Worst case scenario I'll rep badger from here with my vote. Internet is supposed to be fixed today but the storms we had last night were brutal. Winds up to 80 mph so I'm sure it snapped a few lines and with all this stuff going on just got to hope someone will fix it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by virmicious View Post
    Working on this now. Internet is out and I guess our 4g service is overwhelmed cause last night I couldnt get anything to load. Worst case scenario I'll rep badger from here with my vote. Internet is supposed to be fixed today but the storms we had last night were brutal. Winds up to 80 mph so I'm sure it snapped a few lines and with all this stuff going on just got to hope someone will fix it.
    Though I'd prefer a PM, I will accept a rep if you're able to squeeze in a few sentences.

  13. #13
    god's perfect boy mth's Avatar
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    I'm voting kdestiny. Very close debate though. The fact that Jericho, Edge, and Cena himself agreed with kd's call was a pretty solid endorsement. Donald's entire stance against kd's pick was undone by kd's pointing out that it was from a contemporary perspective that was post-this match, that the reason they are viewed as jobbers who never panned out was because they lost here, but had they won, everything could have played out differently (which also undoes the Barrett injuries argument) and Donald never really addressed this. Doanld made a good pick and one I'd agree with and did well supporting it but I don't think he argued well enough to undo kd's pick.

  14. #14
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    Okay 7 days and I haven't heard further from the other judges Psycho and virm. It's tied at the moment at though Donald leads 2-1 in public votes, Jarrod the only judge to vote voted for kdestiny. Here's the vote:

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarrod1983
    Bronze bragging rights up for grabs!

    kdestiny made a great choice. The Nexus came in white hot and if handled differently could have produced more from a story aspect. k's citing Jericho, Edge and Cena's opinion that Nexus should have went over was expertly cited. The fact that Donald didn't choose the first Braun/Brock meeting that should have been the launch point for a mega star in Braun was also a good point. I like how k pointed out Justin Gabriel's potential. k correctly pointed out that after that night Nexus was dead no matter what it was called (New Nexus, Corre). Another awesome point was how The Nexus was The Shield before The Shield was a thing.

    Donald made a good choice too. The Brock is a part time champion that no one wants argument is a strong argument. The Barrett injury bug point was smart to be brought up but, at the time, no one knew how injury plagued Barrett's career would be so not sure how much weight that has. Braun winning at a Saudi show could have got people talking was a good point, as was his point of WWE in general needing to rely on more than one guy to be the guy.

    In the end both had a pretty even argument. Rereading it a few times really let both arguments sink in. I think the thing that caught my eye was kdestiny's statement "My scenario gives you a chance at future stars. Yours gives you one too little too late". Also, some of Donald's counter argument about Nexus came off to me like how you feel now about Nexus members and not how people felt then. Tarver was a excellent talker and was doing the Superman Punch well before Roman. Young had annoying heel charisma and would have been a great bump & beat guy to help The Nexus keep their heat. Slater could have been a mid card heel if taken seriously. Look at how Slater bumps around for Bret in this match. This is the best Bret looked since his return at the beginning of that year and it was because of Slater.

    With that I vote for kdestiny to rule as 3rd place prize winner!
    We're in sudden death now so I've decided the next vote will be the winner. About to go to bed so I'll reread in the morning and decide it unless somebody happens to votes overnight. I'll leave it open to anyone.

  15. #15
    Sometimes I disagree Mazer's Avatar
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    Both participants raised outstanding points, and deserved to make the semis.

    kdestiny was solid throughout. I'm going to pick nits here, but I did not like the formatting of his first post at all. The every other line spacing disrupted reading flow, and did not lead to a natural cadence. That said, he had a strong premise. He did a very good job laying the thesis for his work, and built on his theme. He had a particularly strong counter on whether there was a better match for Strowman to win, and he did a good job spinning some positives out of that direction. His point on Barrett rang true. His strongest point was perhaps the regret of the participant, and made a very strong callback to it later.

    Donald had a great selection as well. He made some great points about how the WWE should have learned what they needed as far as "guys", and demonstrated the importance of the timing. He did have a strong counter about Barrett's injuries, and solid attack on the Nexus's potential. The weaknesses to me were some on how often your top guy needs to win, and I think he needed to go a little harder on his attacks on Nexus. There was enough build from kdestiny where those points stayed in the grey.

    Ultimately, I thought the strongest points, in overall impact, pointing out mitigating outcomes, and having the advantage of retrospect...belonged to kdestiny. i have kdestiny winning a close bout.

    Respect to both posters.

  16. #16
    OBJECTION Psycho666Soldier's Avatar
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    Well, since Mazer posted after Badger, my vote may not matter, but I was going to go ahead and post it in here since he already revealed Jarrod's vote. Feel free to do with it as you wish, Badger. Though, I think it would be the tie-breaker in judge votes if you swapped Mazer with virm.

    This will be a much more brief vote, as I've already taken forever to get this to Badger and I have my hands in a few different soups at the moment.

    This was a pretty tough call. I think kdestiny had the stronger, more popular choice, and I think there was an argument there for Donald's choice being the weaker one for the match-up. But I think Donald properly bolstered this by saying this could have been the moment to provide a shocking moment, make more meaning of the Saudi Arabia show, and do less damage to Braun. At this point, Braun was very salvageable, and Donald helped remind me of that.

    While he had to take that stance, Donald could never convince me that Cena's team should have won. Bret Hart far past his prime, a dysfunctional team with no prior team experience, against a unit who's theme was "We Are One." Ultimately, neither side could convince me that their opponent's choice had the right result. So I have to look at this as who could convince me their choice had more damaging consequences. In this sense, Donald was very convincing in that the Nexus ultimately was not a team that deserved the hype. The top prospect of the group, while incredibly talented, never was around enough to offer much value to the company. And ultimately, the other members that had talent got their moment to sink or swim and had varying levels of success, but he hit the nail on the head when calling out the majority of the stables were of jobber quality.

    It was a close one, but I think Donald ultimately had the stronger rebuttals and really strengthened his choice, whereas I think Destiny didn't counter Donald as well. I think the support of his choice also wore thin after the first post and hinged too much on the treatment of Cena. So just barely, I nudge this to Donald.

  17. #17
    Basic Bish virmicious's Avatar
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    Sorry, I forgot entirely.

    My vote is going to kdest. Both men had great arguments but overall kdest sold me on his. Of the two choices I felt the nexus argument outweighed brock/braun.

    Kdest stood firm and hit point after point on why this was a wasted opportunity. I'll jeep it short as I am not sure if my vote will count or not.

  18. #18
    Legend Badger's Avatar
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    Mazer got there first but appreciate you giving your thoughts anyway fellas. Also as you said Psycho, Mazer would have been the tie breaker anyway.

    kdestiny gets the bronze medal! Unlucky Donald but you fought very well and this was close!

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    I am surprised I thought a lot of people would for sure go for the Brock Lesnar/Undertaker bout, but I would leave that the same.
    If I had to answer this question my first thought goes right to the Royal Rumble. Not that I am dissatisfied with any of the winners, but the Royal Rumble could be used to propel literally anybody regardless of if they win the Main Event or not. For example, in 2011 the biggest RR ever (not counting the Greatest) took place giving more opportunity for a potential breakout to occur. Imagine if The Great Khali had won that, considering they like to shy away from big men winning the Rumble, and I know Khali does not have many fans, but considering what happens to Edge after the WM Main Event I think him putting Khali away at Mania would be a memorable send off. Especially considering the last person I distinctly remember taking Khali on one-on-one at Mania was Kane, and I thought that was rather good.

    Also I am aware that my opinions are quite unpopular.

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    Well this bump was random. The tie has been settled!

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    I mean it hasn't even been a month since the last post, and it isn't like this is one of the more particularly active boards that I participate in.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WWXChairman View Post
    I mean it hasn't even been a month since the last post, and it isn't like this is one of the more particularly active boards that I participate in.
    Not sure you understand how this works. The tie and voting was a month ago for a set time. People voted and there was a winner.

    How did you dig this up anyway?

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    Um, not sure you understand how this works. The debate had a topic. Regardless of whatever tournament was going on the topic is still valid and conducive to meaningful conversation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WWXChairman View Post
    Um, not sure you understand how this works. The debate had a topic. Regardless of whatever tournament was going on the topic is still valid and conducive to meaningful conversation.
    Dude I ran this tournament!
    @Donald there’s maybe hope for you yet if he votes for you. @kdestiny don’t hold onto that bronze medal too tight!

    Also Chairnan how did you dig this up?

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    Nah, tournament had an end already.

    Thought about doing that one, but by that point Taker was already well past his prime by this point. I think he needed to use it to get someone over. While I don't love that it was Brock, I get it

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    Quote Originally Posted by Badger View Post
    Dude I ran this tournament!
    Who cares if you ran the tournament? You still seem to be missing the point entirely.
    See @kdestiny post above this one for an example.

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    I was tagged so I felt the need to respond.

    Doesn't make it less random. Still appreciated

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    Quote Originally Posted by kdestiny View Post
    Nah, tournament had an end already.

    Thought about doing that one, but by that point Taker was already well past his prime by this point. I think he needed to use it to get someone over. While I don't love that it was Brock, I get it
    Dude you’re maybe giving Donald another vote here.

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    It isn't random. At that point you might as well say posting on any thread that isn't literally the first one is random.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Badger View Post
    Dude you’re maybe giving Donald another vote here.
    The tournament is over though, so I wouldn't be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kdestiny View Post
    I was tagged so I felt the need to respond.

    Doesn't make it less random. Still appreciated
    No as random as this bump was by the chairman.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kdestiny View Post
    The tournament is over though, so I wouldn't be.
    That was the joke. Tagged you for fun.

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    I mean if you feel that strongly about it, and have the power to, then why not just lock the thread?
    (Which you honestly could have done when the tournament ended.)

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    Don't even joke about something so precious to me

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    Quote Originally Posted by WWXChairman View Post
    I mean if you feel that strongly about it, and have the power to, then why not just lock the thread?
    (Which you honestly could have done when the tournament ended.)
    Okay so I start a 16 people tournament months ago and didn’t bother to ask the mods to lock every one of them because some random weirdo would bump one of them months later to say “wait this is still up for discussion!!!”

    I’ll learn for next time, thanks for the tip!

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    Seems to me like the weirdo would be the one doing nothing but whining about "bumping" of all things when we could be actually having a meaningful discussion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WWXChairman View Post
    Seems to me like the weirdo would be the one doing nothing but whining about "bumping" of all things when we could be actually having a meaningful discussion.
    The discussion was over months ago.

    Why did you bump this?

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    No, your tournament was over months ago.
    A discussion, especially for a topic like this, doesn't just end because two guys made their case. You think out of everyone in the entire world every single one of them would have chosen the exact same two matches?

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    Quote Originally Posted by WWXChairman View Post
    No, your tournament was over months ago.
    A discussion, especially for a topic like this, doesn't just end because two guys made their case. You think out of everyone in the entire world every single one of them would have chosen the exact same two matches?
    Go make your case then lol. Don’t expect a vote.

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    Why would I? Did you see me say anywhere I am entering some tournament?
    I already posted an answer. You must have missed it in all your blind fury over a thread bump.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WWXChairman View Post
    Why would I? Did you see me say anywhere I am entering some tournament?
    I already posted an answer. You must have missed it in all your blind fury over a thread bump.
    Blind fury? More like confusion.

    How or why did you bump this from months ago?

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    No, blind fury seems accurate to me since you literally cannot seem to let it go.
    Despite the fact that kdestiny tried to actually post some conversation and you completely ignored that in favor of continuing this pointlessness.

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    I do not like WWXChairman.

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    I'm not the one that started this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WWXChairman View Post
    No, blind fury seems accurate to me since you literally cannot seem to let it go.
    Despite the fact that kdestiny tried to actually post some conversation and you completely ignored that in favor of continuing this pointlessness.
    Okay sure whatever. If this some sort of sock prank then I guess you got me bro!

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    How would it be? I made a post that was on topic and you went crazy with posts that were off topic. How could I have predicted anyone would respond that way?

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    Quote Originally Posted by WWXChairman View Post
    How would it be? I made a post that was on topic and you went crazy with posts that were off topic. How could I have predicted anyone would respond that way?
    How could anyone have predicted this would be bumped months later?

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    As I already said the last post was less than a month ago, and if a thread isn't locked then it's fair game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WWXChairman View Post
    As I already said the last post was less than a month ago, and if a thread isn't locked then it's fair game.
    Okay.
    @mth lock this nonsense please. Happy?

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    I mean I guess, but it is only nonsense because you refuse to talk about the topic for some crazy reason.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WWXChairman View Post
    I mean I guess, but it is only nonsense because you refuse to talk about the topic for some crazy reason.
    No idea who you really are but you are weird.

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    So WWX would put Khali over instead of Del Rio at the 40 person Rumble and have him destroy Edge at Wrestlemania that year.

    Also Kane/Khali at WM was good.

    This has to be Vince pulling your chain Badger.

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    This thread was meant for a tournament, not for discussion beyond that. If you want to talk about something, start a new thread it's not rocket science.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarrod1983 View Post
    So WWX would put Khali over instead of Del Rio at the 40 person Rumble and have him destroy Edge at Wrestlemania that year.

    Also Kane/Khali at WM was good.

    This has to be Vince pulling your chain Badger.
    I mean, Donald had some odd opinions so I just let it slide

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    How do you not see that you're the weird one in this situation?
    This conversation would have been entirely different if you didn't throw a fit about something that isn't serious at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarrod1983 View Post
    So WWX would put Khali over instead of Del Rio at the 40 person Rumble and have him destroy Edge at Wrestlemania that year.
    You didn't even read my post. I said Edge over Khali, and that was just to start the discussion it didn't have to be that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Donald View Post
    This thread was meant for a tournament, not for discussion beyond that. If you want to talk about something, start a new thread it's not rocket science.
    There's no reason to make another thread if this one is open and already features the topic somebody wants to discuss. It's not rocket science. But it seems like it is since you all insist on berating me instead of having a proper conversation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kdestiny View Post
    I mean, Donald had some odd opinions so I just let it slide
    Donald is pretty loveable though. Has delivered genuine belly chuckles on multiple occasions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WWXChairman View Post
    How do you not see that you're the weird one in this situation?
    This conversation would have been entirely different if you didn't throw a fit about something that isn't serious at all.



    You didn't even read my post. I said Edge over Khali, and that was just to start the discussion it didn't have to be that.



    There's no reason to make another thread if this one is open and already features the topic somebody wants to discuss. It's not rocket science. But it seems like it is since you all insist on berating me instead of having a proper conversation.
    Shit, kid was yacking earlier and I read it wrong. Sorry. Even still Khali by that time had been seen. Don't know if Edge/Khali would have been that great either.

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    Yeah, I hear you, that’s why I felt the need to add the “I know my opinions are unpopular” at the end. I for sure don’t share the majority opinion on Khali, not that he was some main event star waiting to happen, but I did enjoy his matches. Sorry if it seemed like I was actually overhyping Khali, my main point was just that the Rumble could be literally anybody.

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    Ok. I can see that and yeah that wouldn't be horrid to have a unexpected person win it some time. Especially now that there is usually more than one featured match. A rags to riches story would be neat.

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    Time to show why I am a champion.

    Damien Sandow should've cashed in the MITB successfully on Cena.

    *does Mick Foley lap around the ring not high fiving fans because of social distancing*

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    Quote Originally Posted by Badger View Post
    No idea who you really are but you are weird.
    Wasn't he called the game or something think He had a kamala stock avatar, Kept claiming he was in the business and would write to promoters on what thyy were doing wrong.

    My memory on this is hazy but he was a fucking nut job.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Under a new account obvs

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    Quote Originally Posted by Badger View Post
    Time to show why I am a champion.

    Damien Sandow should've cashed in the MITB successfully on Cena.

    *does Mick Foley lap around the ring not high fiving fans because of social distancing*
    Agreed. Sandow was great.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Griffin View Post
    Under a new account obvs
    No clue why you’re insisting so hard on this. This is my first account and my first time here. You guys could try and be a bit more welcoming.

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    If this is just virm I’d be disappointed.

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    If this Seanny then I have to applaud that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarrod1983 View Post
    Ok. I can see that and yeah that wouldn't be horrid to have a unexpected person win it some time. Especially now that there is usually more than one featured match. A rags to riches story would be neat.
    Okay since some of you have actually moved on...

    Yeah, I mean I think I already mentioned that I’ve liked all of the winners, but when I play universe mode I always try to make it somebody that hasn’t been featured that much in any big matches so I try to implement that philosophy when I discuss fantasy booking.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WWXChairman View Post
    Okay since some of you have actually moved on...

    Yeah, I mean I think I already mentioned that I’ve liked all of the winners, but when I play universe mode I always try to make it somebody that hasn’t been featured that much in any big matches so I try to implement that philosophy when I discuss fantasy booking.
    You haven't played WWE games if you haven't created Big Show dancing to the ring in a tutu.

    Also you're not giving the Wilfred's Final any love, go bump that.

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    I have some recollection of that, not sure if I did it myself or if I just watched somebody do it though.

    I don't need to be on every thread, this thread has not run its course yet in terms of the actual content I was going for, but yeah I guess I could check out that thread whenever somebody decides that there is no more conversation to be had here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WWXChairman View Post
    I have some recollection of that, not sure if I did it myself or if I just watched somebody do it though.

    I don't need to be on every thread, this thread has not run its course yet in terms of the actual content I was going for, but yeah I guess I could check out that thread whenever somebody decides that there is no more conversation to be had here.
    I don’t give a fuck anymore so will play along whoever you and whatever it is you are doing. There are multiple threads you can converse in that do not require bumping.

    Ramble thread would suit you, ramble your shit in there.

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    I see so as I said before "bumping" sends you into a blind fury for no good reason at all.
    I'm sorry, but I'm not going to you for permission every time I see a thread that looks good for discussion.
    You're being kind of toxic for no real reason other than you personally get upset whenever somebody does not abide by your crazy rules, you should probably seek help for that.

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    And you should seek help for being a weirdo. I like weirdos.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WWXChairman View Post
    I see so as I said before "bumping" sends you into a blind fury for no good reason at all.
    I'm sorry, but I'm not going to you for permission every time I see a thread that looks good for discussion.
    You're being kind of toxic for no real reason other than you personally get upset whenever somebody does not abide by your crazy rules, you should probably seek help for that.
    Explained the purpose of this thread ages ago and you are the one being "toxic" because you think the discussion is still ongoing. It was a debate tournament and you randomly decide to bump it when it was months ago. I do not even know if you're a real account or just a nut because I've explained it clearly.

    If you want discussion, plenty other threads. Once again before I lose my sanity, why did you bump this one?

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    You don't have any sanity, you're being completely ridiculous as I have pointed out many times. You have blatantly ignored people who actually are continuing the discussion and acting like they never posted at all to support your insane ego.

    I explained to you that regardless of the "purpose" of this thread there was still discussion to be had as it was a great concept. I was going to go back and respond to the two original thoughts as well, but you don't want to do that you want to sit here and talk about how upset you are and stamp your feet. You're the one being "toxic" because you insist on pretending like anybody is trying to change the results of your tournament, when in actuality we're trying to talk about what our thoughts on the prompt are. Also, again, since you seem to be reading only what you want to read, the last post before mine was less than a month ago. You guys have since bumped way older threads, years older, not that I have anything against that personally, but you're running into hypocrite territory here.

    How is my being a real account in question here? My initial post was completely on topic and provided a chance for somebody else to chime in with another interesting idea. You're the one being a nut by insisting that you control the conversation and everyone has to placate to your needs. There have been at least three chances for a good conversation here, but you keep ruining it by going back to your nonsense every time.

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    Nash Diesel, is that you?

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    That was too cleverly worded a response that makes me thing something is going on here. I do not know any posters other than you that would bump a months old thread to talk about something, especially one that had “debate” in the title. It was a tournament that was finished. I know you’re trolling and well done I guess but me playing along why now? Explained the purpose and you’re throwing back taking the piss saying there’s still discussion to be had when you could have just started your own thread.

    Whoever you are, you are trolling. End of.

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    As I said, your thought process isnít all there. I canít be trolling when my post wasnít aimed at you and didnít set anybody but you off. I also canít be trolling, again, because I moved on from you at least 3 separate times. Youíve ruined the entire thread with your nonsense. If anyone is trolling itís you because you keep destroying proper dialogue every chance you get. Obviously nothing will get you to stop and allow us to have a good conversation in peace, so I guess youíll keep getting your way. Which everyone else seems to want for some reason. Youíre acting like such a child.

  77. #77
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    Whatever you say.

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    Some sort of gimmick. Didn't he quote a year or two old quote in the Netflix thread, as if it had been said a day or two earlier?

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    No. It's the same principle. Just because a comment is old does not mean it can't still be relevant and lend itself to discussion.
    It's no gimmick, it's just seeing things differently than you do.

  80. #80
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    Still though it is a bit random when this thread wasn’t even on the first page anymore. Nothing wrong with looking at archives as such but still a random bump.

    Anyway as I said last night, Damien Sandow would’ve been a great choice to have a result reversal. Cena was hurt at the time so not as if he would’ve been made to look too weak. Then Cena gets the title back later. Would’ve been a cool moment.

    As soon as Sandow won the case they made him look super weak against Cody. Sandow was a missed opportunity.

  81. #81
    Sometimes I disagree Mazer's Avatar
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    Sometimes we are less likely to use these threads for discussion, as we try to reinforce the paradigm that people should be voting for the better argument vs. what they personally think. If everyone says "here's what I would have said/did/think should have happened" it can muddy the waters a bit.

    So often people take the conversation to another area after, and leave this for debate focused postings.


    that said, its whatever at this point, and its been some time.

    chairman has an interesting take. I hope he signs up for the Tag team debates.

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    This thread was on the first page for me, so again not that random, and not really the point anymore when you have since bumped far older posts.
    As for the argument that we should be voting for the better argument vs what they personally think, that's why I figured with the tournament being over it didn't really matter since a winner was already declared. I tried to make it clear that I wasn't disrespecting the tournament or trying to affect the results in anyway. What's more this thread was the most relevant to post on as the idea was that we would get back around to discussing what the debaters had actually said, but if I had known it was going to get this off-topic I would not have bothered.

  83. #83
    Sometimes I disagree Mazer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WWXChairman View Post
    This thread was on the first page for me, so again not that random, and not really the point anymore when you have since bumped far older posts.
    As for the argument that we should be voting for the better argument vs what they personally think, that's why I figured with the tournament being over it didn't really matter since a winner was already declared. I tried to make it clear that I wasn't disrespecting the tournament or trying to affect the results in anyway. What's more this thread was the most relevant to post on as the idea was that we would get back around to discussing what the debaters had actually said, but if I had known it was going to get this off-topic I would not have bothered.
    I'm not having a go at you.

    I kinda said it was cool at this point. however, we're trying to get another one going so i thought I'd mention how we usually play it for the immediate thereafter, for others reading as well.

    Again, I enjoyed your take and would invite you to join in when this gets back up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WWXChairman View Post
    This thread was on the first page for me, so again not that random, and not really the point anymore when you have since bumped far older posts.
    As for the argument that we should be voting for the better argument vs what they personally think, that's why I figured with the tournament being over it didn't really matter since a winner was already declared. I tried to make it clear that I wasn't disrespecting the tournament or trying to affect the results in anyway. What's more this thread was the most relevant to post on as the idea was that we would get back around to discussing what the debaters had actually said, but if I had known it was going to get this off-topic I would not have bothered.
    Our thread display options must be different because the last thread I can see on the first page is the injury thread.

    Anyway sorry for misreading your intentions and having a go, but this hasn’t happened where someone wants to discuss a month old debate topic that already ended in a debate thread so you kinda threw me last night. I suppose I should be grateful the topic piqued your interest.

    As Mazer said though it doesn’t matter now, any discussion on topics we create a discussion thread for future reference. This is not me having a go again by the way but just so everyone reading knows.

  85. #85
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    This trolling job is tremendous.

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    It wasn't trolling. How many times do you honestly need to have that explained to you?
    If a thread isn't locked, then it's fair game. There's no reason to create an entirely new thread when you can build on past comments and content, if anyone really gets that upset over something so trivial, then they should ask to have the thread locked, otherwise participate meaningfully in the discussion. We could be about 35 posts deep in a fantastic discussion if it had been approached that way, I for one am deeply saddened that you guys would rather berate me personally than have a great conversation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mazer View Post
    I kinda said it was cool at this point. however, we're trying to get another one going so i thought I'd mention how we usually play it for the immediate thereafter, for others reading as well.
    I understand about how your tournaments work. I don't want to interfere with that or cause any strain to you in trying to put together, I just didn't think the conversation had to end just because the tournament did. It has been made clear to me that nobody else feels that way, so I apologize sincerely if I caused anyone any trouble.
    Last edited by WWXChairman; May 11th, 2020 at 5:56 PM.

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    Let’s put this down to crossed wires and move on. Again sorry on my part. I did mention a couple of things about Sandow that could’ve been discussed to be fair.

    There is another tournament coming up where you can tag with someone or spectate and discuss. Plenty opportunities coming up.

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    Agreed. Just to make it clear though, can we bump other threads if the topic is already there and open or are we going to go through this debate again?
    Also, can we get back to discussing the prompt?

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    Do what you want but please use the discussion thread. These types of threads are for the debates and voting only.

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    I want to use these threads because I want to talk about the answers given.

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    I’d still prefer the discussion thread as that’s why they are there (ie discussion) but if you must then there’s no harm as long the ties are over I guess.

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    Again, I mean absolutely no disrespect to you or your tournament, it looks like you put a lot of effort into it and it looks really fun, I don't want to come between that at all.

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    Sometimes I disagree Mazer's Avatar
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    If you want to revisit it, I would guess now would be a good time to bump. They've been dead for a while. And since the next one will be a few weeks out, it probably doesn't bugger things too much.

    I am glad to see that topics Badger (primarily) picked out are still generating interest. I really enjoyed what was come up with this year.


    In fairness, when people have come in and posted previously, particularly if they've disagreed-they're typically going against the poster (who may or may not have held the actual opinion they advocated for) or misunderstanding the purpose. Its happened enough where its probably predisposed our take on the best way for people to interact with it. I appreciate your sentiment here.

    Other than the moratorium on when the new threads pop up, I say if you want to get some conversation on the old topics... go for it.

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    Fair enough, I have no intentions of being obnoxious with it, and I trust you all fine people will let me know if I am. I appreciate you all giving me my time and understanding what I have been trying to say, so that we could have a peaceful resolution here. I am truly sorry that any of you thought I was trolling, I really don't wish to be seen that why, I want to advocate for nothing but productive and interesting discussion. Thank you, Mazer and Badger.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WWXChairman View Post
    Fair enough, I have no intentions of being obnoxious with it, and I trust you all fine people will let me know if I am. I appreciate you all giving me my time and understanding what I have been trying to say, so that we could have a peaceful resolution here. I am truly sorry that any of you thought I was trolling, I really don't wish to be seen that why, I want to advocate for nothing but productive and interesting discussion. Thank you, Mazer and Badger.
    Class.

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    Now that we have that settled, let's actually move on....

    Quote Originally Posted by kdestiny View Post
    With this question, we need to decide which outcome was wrong and should be changed and why our choice is the right one.

    Team Nexus vs. Team Cena from Summerslam 2010
    To begin I don't really think any outcome of a match has been "wrong", necessarily.
    I feel they could have went with the same finish for the match, but not have everything go downhill for The NeXus anyway, I think that's where the ball was really dropped. They could have took the loss, maybe added another guy, not been satisfied (because they were heels after all) and demanded another match later that they win, or maybe a series of a singles matches where each member picks up a huge win on their own.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WWXChairman View Post
    Now that we have that settled, let's actually move on....



    To begin I don't really think any outcome of a match has been "wrong", necessarily.
    I feel they could have went with the same finish for the match, but not have everything go downhill for The NeXus anyway, I think that's where the ball was really dropped. They could have took the loss, maybe added another guy, not been satisfied (because they were heels after all) and demanded another match later that they win, or maybe a series of a singles matches where each member picks up a huge win on their own.
    Think it really comes down to a majority of the Nexus just not being on main event level. You can say well they weren't booked that way, but Heath Slater, Michael Tarver, Justin Gabriel, just never were going to be main event level talent. Ryback almost made it but he got plagued with injuries and accusations of carelessness in the ring. The only Nexus guy who should have been a main event player was Wade Barrett. That's who they dropped the ball on, not Nexus.

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    I think they easily could have become main event level, though. Somebody might feel the other way because the main event level guys in "WWE" usually always come down to just a handful of guys. I liked Ryback so much I thought even his Skip Sheffield gimmick could have gotten over. You might be a bit bias there because Barrett won NXT1. I would not even go so far as to say the "WWE" dropped the ball on anyone because they can't give everyone everything. I'd say for what we got, many of them won some championships and we can't forget about Daniel Bryan of course, it was quite good for awhile.

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    Judge virmicious of the high master judge of judges has been great entertained by this spontaneous debate. After reading the back and forth of this it was almost an instant answer of the winner.

    Judge virmy verm virmster would like to congratulate wwxchairman for an absolute mud stomping victory over badger. Straight from the get go wwxchairman laid down a solid baseline that rattled badger to his very core. Badger would stay stuck on one point and got drowned out in the process. His unwillingness to counter wwxchairman in the early going just opened up a lead that badger just couldnt close.

    Wwxchairman moves on this round sending a former champ to the job house. Well done wwxchairman!

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    Lol I wasn’t trying. I was also six sheets to the wind watching MITB at the same time.

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