What is Karrion Kross like as a worker? Part of me wonders if he benefits from being the big fish in the small NXT pond.
On RAW/SmackDown he really loses the size advantage, there are so many dudes with builds similar to his or even bigger…
What is Karrion Kross like as a worker? Part of me wonders if he benefits from being the big fish in the small NXT pond.
On RAW/SmackDown he really loses the size advantage, there are so many dudes with builds similar to his or even bigger…
Really glad to hear Lee is back. Much less glad (much much less) to hear Goldberg is back. Strange choice with Kross/Hardy. Very surprised and happy with Nikki cashing in and winning the title. Sounds like a very mixed bag RAW.
So you took the title off Rhea, to have Charlotte hold it for 24 hours, for that? K…
The Lashley/Goldberg match is going to be ugly. You’re asking Bobby to carry that fossil to a watchable match? Good luck with that…
Works better when the pace is more methodical where his suplexes can be explosive, so he's a power guy who can move pretty well. The narrative with all of the guys messing with Kross was the fact he had all the energy and effort behind him (great entrance, the girl, and the look) but he still can't go with the best in the world. If he's booked worth a damn, he can fill an extremely major void as a big-time player.Originally Posted by Tyson
He was booked as a heel and then as a tweener. The latter wasn't very successful or consistent. He'll work as a monster heel as long as they don't overcomplicate things.
Last edited by BGMaverick; July 20th, 2021 at 12:06 AM.
Nikki beating Charlotte for the title has far more weight to it than Nikki beating Rhea for the title would.
Bill's matches are just each guy hitting their big move or two a few times and it's over in 5 minutes. It'll just be a few spears and a Hurt Lock.
Rhea beats Charlotte... Nikki pins Rhea... crowd no like.
Charlotte beat Rhea... Nikki pins Charlotte... crowd yes like.
Also it just adds to Charlottes title reigns when she gets it back.
Wrestling fans are the worst, aren't they? Complaining that Charlotte is always in the title picture. Then she loses the title and they complain. Only lost to get another reign under her belt. Can't even be happy for Nikki Cross because they are too busy thinking how the storyline will play out.
Karrion Kross losing to Jeff Hardy, Jeff Hardy isn't some schmuck like Barry Horrowitz or that goofy looking guy who managed Carmella. He's a former WWE Champion. Sure, he hasn't been on TV consistently but that shouldn't take away from his accolades.
Goldberg vs. Lashley is going to be awesome and if you're expecting it to be bad then well it's going to be bad isn't it?
Have some positivity for once. I know it's a lot harder to be positive than negative, but damnit feeling positive is such a greater feeling.
Triple H must still be getting punished for the Curtain Call. His top guy, undefeated pushing 270 victories and he does the dirty job to a guy who 2 weeks ago was jobbing on Main Event to one of Jinder's useless henchmen.
Goldberg.....LOL. I swear to God I thought the still shot someone posted was them trolling, maybe a photoshop. Nope. Apparently Goldberg can simply show up and boom, title match!
Nikki Cross.....Wow. Was there anything on Raw that didn't suck dick? I guess the return of Jeff's 10 year old theme song was the highlight. Keith Lee returns, does the job lol. The fuck is wrong with Vince and co.? Even John Cena couldn't save this show-and he usually made it worse but somehow he was just, there.
Edit: So I'm reading that it was Kross' birthday, well that explains the job. Also explains Keith Lee jobbing (his hometown). And I honestly thought Drew McIntyre feuding with Jinder over Loch Ness' missing tooth was the worst shit in WWE right now....nope, they added 4-5 more that are worst.
Last edited by Nash Diesel; July 20th, 2021 at 10:44 AM.
dichotomy of man
Yes, people actually have different opinions in this world. Weird right? lol
She is always in it, yes she is a great wrestler (shit on the mic) but I personally think if her last name wasn't Flair she wouldn't always be in it......not to mention people shit all over Cena, Reigns and now Drew because they were always in the title scene so it isn't just Charlotte.
Why bring Karrion up just to job? That is our issue, Hulk Hogan is a multiple time champion, HHH is a multiple time champion........bet you would bitch if they jobbed Karrion out to one of them.Karrion Kross losing to Jeff Hardy, Jeff Hardy isn't some schmuck like Barry Horrowitz or that goofy looking guy who managed Carmella. He's a former WWE Champion. Sure, he hasn't been on TV consistently but that shouldn't take away from his accolades.
No it won't, Goldberg is slow as death and not that great in the ring, some of the best couldn't even bring him to a good match and Lashley is good but far from good enough to carry likes of Goldberg (I was a huge Goldberg mark FYI)Goldberg vs. Lashley is going to be awesome and if you're expecting it to be bad then well it's going to be bad isn't it?
Maybe we would be more positive if their shows weren't the same matches over and over and they actually put new guys over..........AEW is 10x better than WWE simply for that reason.Have some positivity for once. I know it's a lot harder to be positive than negative, but damnit feeling positive is such a greater feeling.
I sometimes wonder if these shows are supposed to be watched with continuity in mind or in a one episode vacuum. Depending on which one you view it as, can skew your view of the product. Take Karrion Kross for example. If you've never seen him in NXT, you'd think losing to a former WWE champion (wiley veteren) Jeff Hardy to something as simple as a roll up would not seem so bad. If you know of Kross from NXT, you'd think it was bad because he's their champion (he came up with their belt) and ran through guys. Makes NXT look bad in comparison. Depending on storylines, continuity is needed to understand some things (like Reginald, or why Elias and Ryker are fighting). Some things can be one shots, like 24/7 circus or tag match stuff. Or even Lashley stuff. I don't think you can simply watch episodically, because you need to build interest for a person to tune in next week. Which also leads to having knowledge of the previous shows. Is this the Ouroboros?
If WWE were consistent with the past, I would 100% agree that you can't take what happened to someone like Karrion Kross as the worst thing in the world.
The problem is, most people who do watch WWE are educated on the entire brand, not just Raw and/or Smackdown. NXT is on USA every week and has been almost 2 years now. Let's just assume a tiny % tuned in for the first time in years last night and saw Jeff Hardy beat some guy they don't know....sure. But it's a tiny % that shouldn't be factored in. I'm sure Vince and others in WWE will use that excuse but does that make what they did a smart decision?
I mean, I saw some stat that Raw has had like 52 rematches this year and I think Dynamite had something like 8 lol. I'm using that comparison to simply show that Raw has the same shit going on all the time so it's not like you need to remember what someone was doing 2 months ago because they're still doing the same match, the same interview 2 months later.
The WWE need to keep the history alive and not act like a new theme song is suddenly reason for having the NXT champion do the job. IDC how he did it. There was no story whatsoever going in to that match unless this means Jeff Hardy is NXT bound. Plus no Scarlett. All because it was dude's birthday.
I love Jeff Hardy but wtf was that all about? Karrion Kross was undefeated and looked like a monster. Makes no sense for him to even show up on RAW without any hype and then for him to lose his first match in two minutes to someone who doesn't need it? It's like Woods beating Lashley last week. They played it off that Lashley wasn't focused with the women and the success and they are back to business now. I can buy that. What's Kross' excuse? Who looks good coming out of that? Is Jeff more over now? Is he going to NXT to get the next title shot at the next takeover?
Nikki ASH is blah. I liked the Nikki Cross Sanity character more. I guess they can't have two Cross names in the same company. People will think they're related right?
If Jeff Hardy regularly shows up on NXT it will be a good thing for him. Especially with Balor leaving for Smackdown.
I can't find myself to be as positive as @Donald about this week's RAW, but I agree with him that it won't be as big a shit show as some are making it out to be.
I am really happy for Nicki ASH Cross. Rhea and Charlotte had another very good match - maybe not quite as good as the night before, but still really good. And if you think about Nicki's story build - from the time she came back and "won" by not getting beaten, to where she gets the MITB win and the cash in - Iooking back on the past few months it fits and we should have seen it coming.
I am pumped that Keith Lee is back. And I am glad that Sheamus is getting healthier - I thought his use of his mask was inspired by Iron Mike Sharpe's wrist brace.
I am going into Goldberg vs. the Almighty with low expectations, but it could be a fun occasion for a surprise cash in by Big E. If the crowd is shitting on them and Big E cashes in, the pop would be AWESOME.
I hope this is the end for Ryker vs.Elias.
i am guessing Roman beats Cena. I am hoping Roman holds it until Mania and loses but to who? Big E? I'd rather Big E take down lashley since Lashley destroyed Kofi. Hopefully not the Rock.
Lashley beats Goldberg..I hope. does he face Brock at Mania? Does Big E cash in on Lashley for a future shot like RVD did? That would be cool
My oldest son texted me freaking out because he had been anticipating the return of the "old" theme song. 2 minutes later, keep in mind he's 20 and he goes "I waited 13 years for that song to return only for Karrion to get fucked?" LOL. Technically it said "to get F'd" but I know what he meant. My son is a die-hard Jeff Hardy fan, I can't even begin to explain it. He used to want to be one of those TNA kids who were front row wayyyyy back in the day always dressed like Hardy.
Even he couldn't understand the reasoning. And I'll say this-I can at least understand Woods getting the W over Lashley in the sense it was telling a particular story leading to Kofi. Was it smart-not really but we're also talking about the same exact company who had Lesnar job his first match back from killing everyone in the UFC.
Dude I didn't even think about Karrion and Nikki "Cross" They're getting more relaxed with people having the same last name I guess. But yeah, she's whack. She reminds me of Eric Young in TNA. Sorry for all the TNA references but if you ever watched his evolution. He had like 40 gimmicks. But I remember how popular that Super Eric bullshit was. Looking back it was dumb as fuck and did nothing of worth. But people were digging it, including myself so I can't hate too much.
The problem is-I don't see it transcending to a younger demographic. Which I assume is the intent, to try and lure in that 5-10 year old girl demo that rarely has ever given 2 shits and a fuck about pro wrestling. They've been trying with the WWE barbie dolls but I swear I read or heard somewhere that the majority of people who bought them were adult men. Probably collectors. And she's just so corny and her accent is sooooo thick. Every word she says has this "uh" sound. She'll say "I'm ready to kick her ass" and it sounds like "Um ruddy tu kuck whore uss" Snip the tongue kiddo.
Part of me wants Cena to win and then Roman can get it back in a few months. The problem is, WWE would have Cena win, break Flair's record, then lose it a week later to Karen Corbin or something dumb as fuck. When Cena tied the record, he lost the belt a few weeks later in the EC to Wyatt. Who then lost it the next ppv to Orton, who then lost it to Jinder about 2 months later....That's the kind of domino effect we could see lol.
It's a fluke win. Jeff won by putting his feet on the ropes. It's not like he beat him clean with a Swanton. The only odd thing I find is the lack of promotion for Karrion's RAW debut. They should have hyped it for a couple of weeks on RAW and NXT.
I have more of an issue with Keith Lee returning and losing in a dominant fashion. A DQ, double countout, etc. would have worked fine here.
There may be more to this Kross story….. someone in one of my chats sent a message saying Kross has backstage heat on him due to a confrontation with Adam Cole backstage of an NXT event. That includes his working ME, which may not have been the potential push to the main roster ppl immediately thought
Well it's also odd that Jeff cheated to win. IMO, regardless of the intention, the long term story involved, I just don't think Kross was the guy they should've used.
Yeah Keith Lee losing like a chump was odd.
If true, that just gives more credence to the idea that the WWE will bury you even if it means losing millions.
To be fair to that comment though, we have to remember Bronson Reed, who was North American champion, also worked that same show. Does he have heat as well?
No idea.
Now again, this is wrestling, and backstage reports aren’t always reliable. But it’s not as if WWE hasn’t done similar things in the past. So who knows.
I'd say it was booked that way in advance for numerous reasons.
It's not going to hurt the heel that is Charlotte to drop the title due to her stature. Rhea needs to be more protected. Plus a baby face superhero cashing in on another baby face would be dumb.
Vince is supposedly in love with this superhero character. He believes it's going to be a big merchandise mover (hear that @Nash Diesel) and will also be a character parents will like their kids to watch.
WWE is supposedly in a reworks of both shows in order to boost ratings which means different storyline that have surprises and of course going back to the old timers to lure in some tuned out eyes. Nikki winning was a huge surprise of course and it most certainly got people talking.
Like I said, this won't hurt Charlotte. She's main event as far as the women go and that's not going to change. She is being positioned much like her dad in the whole how many times has she held the title. I am positive they already have a storyline in the works where she will get to the 17 mark eclipsing her dad.
Personally, I think it was a great booking idea and it's a great storyline. I'd say we see a triple threat match or two down the road and if Nikki character really takes off I would expect nothing less than Charlotte winning it back so the somehow underdog superhero can chase the evil queen for the big payoff.
The ceiling to this character is Mighty Molly. I can't see it taking off. i could be wrong but while the superhero shit might work with the kids, I doubt it works with the adults .
Oh but Vince told Virm that it's going to be a big merch mover and will be a character that the family will tune in to see.
The fact that this chick came up with the gimmick and Vince was like YES but saw Karrion Kross with Scarlet and said "Fuck him" shows 10000% Vince is out of touch now. I've been a WWE apologist for 35 years now, and last night proved without a shadow of a doubt that WWE have lost their fucking minds.
Terrible if true. RIP Vince.
Let's not forget how quickly Vince sours on wrestlers. Didn't he love Keith Lee at first?
This is just a hunch, but he seems like someone who LOVED Braun Strowman. All it takes is one day
Told you. It’s morbid, but I really think WWE as a total entity will only get better from an entertainment standpoint when Vince dies
he loves the superhero type gimmick. he was always into the mighty mouse gimmick according to Bruce Prichard. he tried it with Neville and then changed his mind. I'm sure he saw Ricochet in the same way but changed his mind again. I can't say for sure obviously but that's what it seems like
Unless I hear it from Vince, I never truly believe what he supposedly says or what his "type" of wrestler is.
It's impossible to pinpoint because look at the last 40 years that he's be in charge. Ok, so Hulk Hogan was champion for 4 years. Did Hogan not deliver? The next champion (real champ) was Savage. Half of Hogan's size and worked completely different. Then you had Warrior, followed by Sgt Slaughter, Ric Flair, Taker, Bret Hart, Yokozuna, the list goes on and no real type of wrestler stands out other than the ones who draw money.
I'm sure if Warlord could draw money, talk, and work even remotely close to Hogan's level he would've been champion. He wasn't even tag champion. Look at the IC champions, the tag champions. They were not these jacked up Braun Strowman's. So if he was into Keith Lee, SOMETHING happened. I mean, let's be honest---Keith Lee came in and beat Randy Orton clean then worked with Drew and Randy for a month straight. He came in and the only way to go was down. Then he was gone for whatever reason.
We are most certainly in a different era and attitude of fans these days compared to when mighty Molly was around.
Back in Molly's day you had a product that was aimed entirely at adults and a few other superhero characters. Now days it's entirely kid friendly but a lot of the younger fans are also more rabid into people due to social media. Someone like Nikki has had a good sized fan based for a while and I just almost get the feeling they see her being on TV in a gimmick she created was a huge victory. Let alone winning the title.
It's just really way to different of times to compare apples to apples.
Besides, she already broke mighty Molly's glass ceiling by winning the title. Molly won the hard-core title while in this gimmick. No women's title.
Last edited by virms; July 20th, 2021 at 6:04 PM.
1.9mill for RAW.
First RAW with crowds, post-PPV bump, Cena, and Goldberg. Didn’t crack two mill. Let’s see how next week looks.
lolololol
show wasn't very good so my guess is 1.6-1.7 max
That is honestly a better rating than I thought it would get. It's also a show packed for of surprises so I would expect to see the ratings climb some.
1.6 is the usual weekly viewership. Shocked that they couldn’t pop more than 1.9 for such a big show.
first RAW show with fans after a big ppv and Cena returning. Rating should've been higher honestly. it almost seems like the viewership is destined to go back to what it was before fans and those shows were almost unwatchable. i was able to tolerate a below average show with fans there.
Because no adults were into The Hurricane...?
How into The Hurricane do you think the adults were ? I'm being serious because I have the answer. Barely. He was tolerable. I should know, I'm old as fuck and I was an adult. He was Santino. Santino was cool, and he actually sold a lot of snakes. He wasn't a female.
That's a big part you're purposely avoiding I think, as well as others pretending this is the same thing as Hurricane. That's just crazy, the sole connection being they are faux superheroes. Hurricane's character is totally different than Nikki ASH. Nikki is Rosey if anything, and how over was the S.H.I.T.? Barely.
Mighty Molly isn't even fair because she was a character during a time where 5-6 million watched Raw every week religiously. The Oddities were dope as fuck too.
Who goes "Let's watch Raw tonight to see the fans"?
The lack of advertisement of John Cena being on Raw didn't help. He was advertised for the last month or so for the upcoming Smackdown this week, not the ppv, not the following Raw.
I hope next week is a big number to justify bitch ass Goldberg being there. As we know, all it takes is going over Hulk Hogan 23 years ago to get title shots apparently.
People who haven't seen fans at a wrestling show in a year in a half might watch because there's fans.
Hurricane had that program with the Rock so he wasn't just tolerable.
Nikki ASH will be fine. It isn't my favorite but I'm glad it's getting a talented performer a chance to shine.
They MIGHT. I doubt it.
He had a program? How long did that program last? A week? If that's the argument you have against what I said, we need to revisit who YOU were blowing to get that win in Wilfred's lol.
When hasn't she had a chance to shine? People act like Nikki Cross has just been chillin at the bottom forgetting how much tv time she's had, how many times she's wore gold.
Not my fault your argument didn't win. Maybe argue better?
What does that even mean, "Nikki ASH will be fine"?
I'm more shocked people defend this stuff with ridiculous comments simply because it pains them to agree with others.
We should definitely meet up sometime since we live so close to each other I would love to pick your brain.
No, but thank you.
I just figured it would be easier to understand the reasoning behind your bland rebuttal.
No, I'm good where I'm at.
You don't have to understand.
lol ok big guy
You make it seem like Nikki has worn gold a LOT, but the only gold she's worn was being women's tag champs twice with Bliss - who clearly was ahead of her. While Cross did get a championship match against Bayley a year ago, she was squashed and then forgotten as Bliss changed her character under the FIend's influence. From the end of July last year, she was mentioned under the October draft but she wasn't seen until an appearance at the Rumble, quickly eliminated, and she wasn't heard from again until this past May. So by my count she had one match - a Rumble elimination - in over 9 months. It sounds more like you're the one forgetting how much TV time she's had.
She's talented in the ring - she is no Charlotte but few are at that level, but she's a plucky underdog who reeks enthusiasm. You make it seem as though those of us who are happy for her right now are clamoring for her to break Bayley's longest title length record. Let us enjoy it with her.
Hurricane's program with the Rock was terrific stuff, mostly backstage segments. On one of the Rock's DVDs or interviews, he talked about how he intentionally messed up during pre-taping these segments, so that he could go off script with Hurricane, to help Helms get over when they did it live. Rock could do no wrong at that point - I think it was 2002 or 3, and he was given a lot of leeway.
Hurricane made a decent enough impression to he brought in for one nighters. A lot of past stars can't say that.
My bad I didn't gauge Hurricane as the biggest deal in the world because he did a side program for 3 weeks with The Rock 18 years ago. Which has nothing to do with Nikki ASH. The loose comparison is ridiculous.
I'll be honest, most of you that are pro-Nikki are making an even better argument as to why she shouldn't be champion, or even in the company.
Oh no, Karrion Kross lost and Nikki Cross won a title. I'm deleting my Peacock account. FUCK WWE.
Maybe I should go on Twitter and cry about it. Maybe say something like "Y'all need to do better booking @WWE"
It's a lot faster to do that than write WWE letters, @3puppies.
Embrace the Hate Donald
I don't think you can delete it but you could stop paying for it. I don't hear many people complaining about Nikki winning though. The point is Kross was undefeated on NXT and lost in 3mins on Raw, people are right to complain about that.
I'll accept that you have acknowledged the fact that you have been humbled. Hey, you don't have to like everything about WWE, but when something is fun for a lot of us, we will enjoy it at least for a little while.
When you said
I replied with the explanation as to why we have seen her as chillin at the bottom - because she was not used for 9 freakin monthsPeople act like Nikki Cross has just been chillin at the bottom forgetting how much tv time she's had, how many times she's wore gold.
Now, you're trying to twist it and instead suggest that we shouldn't enjoy something fun because she was previously ignored for a long while. If that's the standard, why is John Cena or Goldberg back? Lashley and MVP are both doing a great job in their latest run - both don't deserve to be in the company at all by your standard.
Sometimes something just clicks, and some of us enjoy it. We get that you're not digging Nikki right now.
So Nikki ASH is John Cena, Goldberg, or even Lashley-MVP? I'm just not sure why we're making such loose comparisons here. Was John Cena IGNORED? No, he was off making moives lol. These are just as ridiculous as people implying Nikki ASH is the 2nd coming of The Hurricane while scoffing at the idea she's more like Mighty Molly.
Show me where I said you can't enjoy something fun. If you can show me where I said "Gimmicks/angles/matches that are fun are not acceptable!!" I never once said that lol.
When did I acknowledge the fact I've been humbled? LOL. Come on now, that's like saying you're now a fan of Hulk Hogan.
Here is where you accepted that you were humbled.
The comparison with Nikki is that both are undersized performers, both are surprisingly over in the WWE land of Omos, and both will sell a lot of masks. Not ridiculous, and not really a loose comparison.
Nikki ASH herself compares her character to the inspiration from the Hurricane.
https://www.wrestlinginc.com/news/20.../?nowprocket=1
Again, not a ridiculous comparison. Whether you accept it or not, you've been humbled.“I always loved watching the Hurricane,” Nikki said. “The Hurricane left such a valuable great blueprint and I wanted to pay respect to that path and pay respect to what came before me but also carve my own path and have my own message for our younger audience and just be a positive role model and a positive inspiration. You put on the mask and you feel like you could try anything and it’s okay if you fall down because you just need to pick yourself up and I think there is a lot of love and positivity that I really wanted to get out there with this message. Use it to connect with people, that’s my hope, that’s my belief on what the character stands for. That’s just the message.”
Accept the humblement, Nikki nASH Diesel.
I finally got around to watching RAW. I read this, so it was spoiled.
I keeping an open mind on Nicki for now. Just as a moment, I had little problem with it. Found it kind of fun. There are definitely long-term questions, that could make me feel silly for being open-minded now. However, I would like to see the WWE do a bit less 50/50 to "all of a sudden this guy is great booking" to more genuine one-time upsets. More of in a Dikembe Mutumbo's Nuggets knock off the Number 1 seed Sonics way. Nobody thought that it was the beginning of the Nuggets era, but it was cool to see Dikembe freaking out and having his moment. Even, knowing that they were likely going to get their ass-kicked later.
Incorporating an occasional flash upset can keep a spirit of unpredictability that could lead to storylines, but ultimately doesn't have to lead to the weird "now we are supposed to believe that Dolph is actually on the same level as John Cena, despite having watched the program for the last 10 years"
But maybe that's wishful thinking.
Because I'm going to speak out of both sides of my mouth. Because it was really fucking weird to introduce Karrion in an upset (w/ Scarlett even) in his first exposure to the main audience. I don't get it. To the point, where I think there has to be a deeper issue here.
Keith Lee coming back to be an appetizer for the Goldberg announcement. I don't get that either. But I also don't get the appeal of a 6 minute Bill Goldberg 2021 championship match either.
I was genuinely a fan of MITB, and was excited coming out of it.
This RAW let me down.
All this talk of humbling.....I feel like we're just inviting the Iron Sheik to join the Forum.
All this talk of Nuggets era, and I miss Owen Hart a great deal.
what world title did he win?
edit: I also want to note that the Hurricane was damn good in the comedy role as a midcarder comedy character. he didn't sniff the title. He was a tag wrestler or a low card guy that had his 3 week stint with the Rock that was great. But that was basically all comedy. I haven't seen that comedy side from Nikki Ash. I liked her as Nikki Cross from Sanity. I just don't see this superhero character taking off in 2021 without the comedy focus.
Last edited by PurePlayer; July 21st, 2021 at 11:27 AM.
LMFAO. My arch nemesis, the Iron Sheik, always tweeting how he's going to break my fucking back with the camel clutch.
When Daniel Bryan debuts in AEW remember this Raw. Remember this Raw when you wonder why so and so didn't re-sign or join the company. This Raw showed every single flaw in WWE.
Seriously....the only positive of this show that I can even think of was the "bro-off" between Riddle and Cena. Actually when Riddle hit Cena with his flip flop was pretty funny.
Maybe I drink too much WWE Kool-Aid, but the only flaw I found in RAW was Keith Lee being fed to Lashley. I would have rather had Sheamus do an open challenge and have Keith Lee and Sheamus brawl to a double DQ or something. Maybe fed Humberto to Lashley.
He literally won the European Championship the night he debuted The Hurricane gimmick. He pinned The Rock. He was also a Tag Team Champion, one time with Kane who was main eventing at the time. Let's not try to act like the guy wasn't dabbling in some high profile shit on multiple occasions.
That was a comedy spot at the rumble. awesome. Nikki can do that too. I am not debating a superhero character being in a comedy role. She won the world title. Let's not act like the European title is anything that matters. If they create that for the women then Nikki can take that too.He literally won the European Championship the night he debuted The Hurricane gimmick. He pinned The Rock. He was also a Tag Team Champion, one time with Kane who was main eventing at the time. Let's not try to act like the guy wasn't dabbling in some high profile shit on multiple occasions.
The best part of the time Hurricane teaming with Kane being in the main event was that the Hurricane didn't even wrestle in that TLC main event. Kane won by himself.
Are you comparing the European title to the WWE RAW women's title?
But you are debating a superhero character being pushed and being main event level, which is absolutely something The Hurricane was, even if briefly. And yeah, the program with Rock was only a few weeks but that was, at the time, everyone's issue with it. The IWC/these boards were fuming that it was dropped and that Triple H squashed him after the win. Folks wanted him to stay at that level and for the momentum to continue. ADULTS. They didn't just make his merch in kids sizes. I owned two of his shirts. I was not a child.
Funny to me how everyone's always begging for new blood in the title scene and complaining how Charlotte's always the champ yet when we get actually new blood taking the belt from Charlotte, somehow it's still not good enough. The IWC is the king of "we want this" "No, not like that".
You absolutely drink the WWE Kool-Aid. What you hate about the AEW thread is you in the WWE thread lol.
No, you asked what WORLD titles did Hurricane win and he responded with the fucking European title........
Bianca and Ripley are new blood. Nikki is new blood too but the gimmick sucks. Hurricane was a comedy character. Let's not sugarcoat this. He was also never the WORLD champ. He was never going to be a main eventer. That type of character doesn't get that position. Maybe this will also be a couple week thing..who knows.
Are we now doing the whole if he was in the main event 1 time on a tv show then he's a main event level character?
Hurricane was NEVER a main eventer. Nikki is not a main eventer solely because she won the Raw women's title.
I was an adult too, still am, and they would have lost even more viewers at a rapid pace had a character like the Hurricane been treated as an equal to The Rock, Triple H, etc. Which is why that wasn't even a ppv feud, it was a side feud for the Rock that he was juggling on tv for 3 weeks.
It's funny how we always hear that lame argument "Oh people want new blood and now they have it they think it sucks" The same argument was made for Jinder Mahal. Like just because someone is "new" that's a positive. Record low ratings and we're pretending like Nikki ASH is the 2nd coming. Because the Hurricane had a 3 week program and a European title reign.
Plus we have Knox (ugh) and Shotzi (yay) Not to mention the return of Zelina Vega, who was barely wrestling outside of mixed-tag matches here and there. Plus Liv Morgan is getting a nice push.
And again....The Hurricane was a dude. The majority of the fanbase by a large number are dudes. We have a bunch of dudes talking about how big of a fan they were of Hurricane yet notice we don't hear anyone chiming in about all that Mighty Molly merch they had 20 years ago.
Who is Nikki ASH catering to? Notice nobody wants to talk about the reality that who that character is geared toward, they don't really give a shit about wrestling and I doubt seeing some chick who talks like Forrest Gump wearing a Divas butterfly super hero outfit is going to be a game changer.
In a conversation that is somehow about the proper historical value of the Hurricane and debating the value of a European champion, comparing the heavy brogue and vernacular of Nikki Cross to the Southern pace and folky patterns of Forrest Gump is the single biggest stretch. Especially when you had things like "sheamus's overactive 2nd cousin" or "the weird stepsister of the Proclaimers" or "an extra from Braveheart who was really excited about meeting Mel Gibson" in front of you. hell, those aren't even that good. But still....I'm disappointed that we are completely looking around the EU for our Nikki based humor.
I'd like to act like I'm not disappointed.
But I'm no Tom Hanks.
Bad Mazer Humor aside...
I get why people could like or dislike the Nikki move. As I said, I have enjoyed Nikki. I kinda liked crazy Alexa friend Nikki most. But ultimately, this will not hurt Charlotte or Rhea.
To me, it pales in comparison to my questions on what the fuck is happening with Keith Lee. His absence and depush is mystifying. This is reaching Macho Man levels of conspiracy theory for me.
To be fair, it was either this thread or the MiTB thread where I talked about how difficult it is to follow what she's saying because her accent is so thick. It wasn't so much that her and Gump have the same accent, just the way they pronounce words. Nikki always has this "uh" sound in whatever word she's saying.
I've always felt Keith Lee was called up too soon. He was just establishing himself as a top guy, still needed promo work, and then he comes up and they roll out the red carpet. I also think by doing that, they realized oh shit, this guy is good but not THAT good to be in there with the World champions. He was able to work with established vets like Drew, Sheamus, and Orton who were able to enhance not only his positives, but his negatives as well.
I think if we knew WHY he has been gone we'd be more relaxed about his situation.
No. We are not doing a multi-post debate about Nikki's accent in relation to Forrest Gump. No.
Keith Lee.
The why is the thing. We know he was getting pushed. Even as far back as Survivor Series. Then, yes brought up before a good enough plan was developed. We've seen all this before.
But then he's gone. Cryptic tweets. And then he returns with no fanfare. And jobs to Lashley.
Fucking what.
Did Keith Lee have an affair with Stephanie AND tag team wrestling?
If you walked up to a Glaswegian in Govan or Maryhill and said they’d talked like Forrest Gump, probably get the shit kicked out of them.
BOY HOWDY!
Ain't that the truth.
I think they should give Nikki A.S.H. a translator in Funaki.
I don't know man.
Putting a translator in Funaki seems like it would be uncomfortable for both Funaki and the translator.
0 chance of Daniel Bryan joining AEW.
Bryan Danielson might though.
rumor has it that Keith Lee was trying to get the copyright to the Keith Lee name and WWE was battling him for it. I don't know how true that is.
I've made a mental note to make sure I test this theory.
Yeah first it was he was too out of shape. Then he had Covid. Now it's a copyright issue with his name he had prior to WWE. Let's be honest....He was fucked from the jump. Different ring gear that made him look even more obese and a terrible CAW theme from WWF Attitude.
That is Evil. Indeed.
Trying to talk to ppl in Coleraine, N Ireland was bad enough for me. Not sure I’m ready for heavy Scottish accent yet
I hope they do a spot where Bobby and Goldberg simultaneously spear each other. I'm excited only for that.
I know he's not your favorite person, but Brian Alvarez speculated that they had Xavier pin Lashley because they didn't want to bring the women on the road and needed a reason to get rid of them.
I've seen comments from people mocking AEW for potentially signing Bryan and Punk. How Cena and Goldberg are much bigger stars and AEW can't even break 2 mil viewers, lol.
I read this
and thought If they have their entrances, then ring the bell, circle around each other for 10 seconds, then both simulatenously spear each other, both are laid out in the ring, Lashley's Ho's distract the ref, MVP comes in and drags Lashley's body over Goldberg for the cover, pin after 25 seconds, that'd be dope.
Then I read
You just deflated my fantasy booking.I know he's not your favorite person, but Brian Alvarez speculated that they had Xavier pin Lashley because they didn't want to bring the women on the road and needed a reason to get rid of them.
If Goldberg's match lasts longer than 5 minutes I will be shocked. A live audience may shit all over it with a "Please Retire" chant.
Something to monitor tonight is Nikki. The reaction Sunday and Monday seemed more like reactions for a result (a fun finish and cash-in) rather than enhancing the stock of someone dramatically. Her reaction when she came out at the PPV was very noticeable because it was dead, so it will be interesting to see if this continued elevation for her takes in the eyes of the audience.
I've been hearing that she's not getting good reactions at house shows. Mostly silence and some boos.
I'm glad R-Truth is still getting good reactions from the fans. Pretty cool they gave him a headset mic tonight
Really don't think we needed a nearly 20-minute segment with the women's championship picture. I was curious to see how Nikki would be handled by the audience and it went relatively alright. Wasn't an overwhelming response, especially compared to Charlotte or Rhea (who are both nowhere near hot in terms of their character), but still a step forward compared to MITB. Didn't really like the promo she had but it was alright.
Sheamus and Priest had a pretty good match but it was hurt by the setup of the Championship Contender stipulation.
So many parts of WWE's production is solid but their framing/sequencing really can be grating sometimes. You have a three hour show, no one should be getting abridged or non-entrances. To amplify that, AJ Styles (and the tag champions) should not get that treatment.
Natalya definitely got her ankle rolled up during the transition rollup Doudrop executed. Hopefully she's not too hurt. Natalya and Tamina lost all of their steam as a tag team so new champs would be good but you don't want it at the expense of one of them being hurt.
Jeff Hardy out due to Covid, so they decide to burn a Takeover 30 rematch with no build haha. They really don't care about NXT at this point. Booking this a week after one debuted (and lost) and the other returned (and lost) when they both need some steam is just stupid booking. At least the match was good. Whatever took Lee out for several months, it doesn’t seem like it did him any favors.
I wish I liked The Ascension 2.0 but those promos are dreadful. Mansoor and Ali have the "can they coexist" thing going but Mansoor has the charm/charisma to make this work. They've got a decent chance of working out until they're broken up.
They're trying incredibly hard to get moist over. Probably not helpful when Miz is yelling "GET WET" at Morrison. Rather notable how the crowd cheered for Riddle when he came out. They had a good match, which wasn't a surprise. Orton has been gone for over a month but Styles and Omos are suddenly concerned about RK-Bro? Guessing Riddle takes another beatdown next week but Orton actually makes the save next week and sets up the PPV match.
Who knew Reginald was the skeleton key to unlock the 24/7 division getting proper matches. Reginald found Sin Cara's trampoline, it appears. R-Truth being mic'd up for matches is an entertaining idea.
I'm actually surprised they gave Charlotte a clean win over Nikki when they very easily could have had Rhea cause a DQ. I don't know if that bodes well for the new champ.
The Riddle/Morrison match was fantastic! I look forward to seeing more match ups between these two in the future
Not a good sign when your brand new Women's champion loses her first match on TV. It makes me wonder if they're going to push Nikki as a huge underdog going into SummerSlam only to have her retain.
Raw sounds like it was terrible. No Keith Lee? I hope he finally tells us what the hell is going on. I don't understand why he's like yeah I'll tell you guys in a week or two. Just wait and tell us then instead of giving time for people to tell you you can't say anything again. It's better to ask for forgiveness than permission.
Oh he was there...
I just read he lost to Kross? It wasn't even in the recap I read. Total squash?
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