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Thread: The Official Monday Night RAW Thread

  1. #301
    Main Eventer Horatio's Avatar
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    grenadines
    Aleister Black vs Tyler Black back as Seth Rollins would be awesome.
    Seth is all like, "believe in me!" And Aleister is like, "neverrr!!!"

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    World Champion lotjx's Avatar
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    Black if used correctly could be that guy he build a WrestleMania Main Event around. MITB is better if a heel or sorta tweener character gets it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lotjx View Post
    Black if used correctly could be that guy he build a WrestleMania Main Event around. MITB is better if a heel or sorta tweener character gets it.
    I kinda dig how they're building Black right now. I could do without Lawlor screaming how "this guy gives Freddie Kreuger nightmares" about Black, but other than that, he's been pretty damn protected. They've given him a solid entrance, a unique look, and a slow, steady build. I really liked how his series with Buddy Murphy went down, as I can't think of that many midcard feuds where BOTH guys come out of it looking better, especially when one of them loses 3 in a row. So I am intrigued as to what they do next with him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mth View Post
    Black is a loner not a cult leader. Also making the Satanic dude a heel is lame. Also, Rollins current gimmick is good as is. What I'm saying is no to all of that, I guess.
    Fair.

    But I do like the idea of giving Alestier a babyface crew of dudes to head off Seth Rollins' crew of assholes.

  5. #305
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    I'm curious to see how they continue to evolve Zelina's stable. If Theory can add some personality to distinguish himself amongst Andrade and Angel, then I think the group has some serious legs. We've basically had our share of groups/factions on Raw over the last 6-8 months with The OC and Rollins' group, but this one being led strictly by a manager and the pieces being unique could be something.

    Quote Originally Posted by mth View Post
    Black with the MITB case would be dope because they can really stress "one Black Mass and it's a new champ".
    I don't think the impact would be as dynamic since he's been in longer/evenly-built matches (less squashes) as of late, but there's a pretty good hype train that could emerge with Black continuing to stack wins, get the briefcase, and call his shot with the champion and not sneaking up on them.
    Last edited by BGMaverick; April 15th, 2020 at 12:07 AM.

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    Black could win the Money In The Bank Briefcase and then go back to his old "Waiting for someone to come to him for a fight" gimmick.

    "Instead of me calling you out, you call me out. Pick your shot."

    Build up the anticipation between Drew Mac Attack and Black. One night, he and Mac have a tag-team match. They win, but the heel team lays out Mac afterward. And they tease, for everything its worth, Black cashing in. And he doesn't. And he helps Mac up, and Mac lays him out with a Claymore kick.

    Drew starts to break down, as he turns away some other challengers and has his own feuds. AJ Styles, Seth Rollins, and the like. But the common thread is Drew Mac attacking Black at every opportunity, trying to provoke him into cashing in. And Black still won't do it.

    And they build that shit up -- all the way until WrestleMania 37. Drew Mac is on the verge of cracking up. But he's got one trick up his sleeve. He introduces Paul Heyman as his new manager, officially switches full heel, and tells Black he's found the one thing that's going to guarantee he can turn out Black's lights. Fade to Black.

  7. #307
    an affront to god mth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spudz Mackenzie View Post
    Fair.

    But I do like the idea of giving Alestier a babyface crew of dudes to head off Seth Rollins' crew of assholes.
    It had seemed like Black might join Owens and Joe against them prior to Mania but then he went off and mixed it up with AJ.

    I don't hate your idea of him getting the MITB and then challenging the champ to come pick a fight. I think it'd work better if Seth was champ, though, 'cuz he'd be chickenshit about it, talk a big game but never actually have the balls to knock, and just send Murphy and AoP to do it for him, and then they'd obviously get beaten by Black, further adding to Rollins' unease.

    If Drew were champ, I'd see him just going right up there and knocking straight away. But Claymore vs. Black Mass put over as a "one hit and you're done" situation could be pretty hot.

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    anyone else think Joe comes back as a heel and feuds with KO? I think it would be a nice transition. It is interesting that Rollins moved to a feud for the title after losing to KO clean.

    i wonder how AJ comes back. maybe he comes back as a darker character. but on the other hand, I feel like we have enough of those already.

  9. #309
    an affront to god mth's Avatar
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    Wasn't AJ kind of emo for a bit in TNA? Grew his hair out, wore dark gear and a black hoodie, started using the Calf Killer?
    They should make him like Peter Parker in Spider-Man 3. Trying super hard to be dark and emo but just comes across as a massive dork in the process.

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    Knowing WWE, AJ will come back completely covered in mud, to suggest he hasn't showered since being buried alive in the boneyard match.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PurePlayer View Post
    anyone else think Joe comes back as a heel and feuds with KO? I think it would be a nice transition. It is interesting that Rollins moved to a feud for the title after losing to KO clean.

    i wonder how AJ comes back. maybe he comes back as a darker character. but on the other hand, I feel like we have enough of those already.
    It could work as a placeholder feud for KO, biding time for him until they figure out something better for him. KO needs something substantial because he got a quality Mania win, had what will (or should be) a Mania moment for the future, and was ultimately underutilized for months prior to Mania. Joe just needs to be fodder for the foreseeable future because you just can't rely on him. Brilliant with what he does, but the writing is on the wall with him.

    AJ and The OC, as a group, needs something with substance when they come back. I don't think the trio had anything good prior to the Taker stuff and they just kind of lucked into looking good by the production wizardry of the Boneyard match. If Los Ingobernables de WWE is just going to be a flash in the pan, The OC really needs to step up. If they're more than just a flash in the pan, The OC needs something to differentiate themselves.

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    Well Gallows and Anderson are gone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PurePlayer View Post
    Well Gallows and Anderson are gone.
    Kayfabe destroyed by Taker.

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    MVP looks funny when he's piggybacking.

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    Heyman or whoever clearly likes Theory and I can see why. He got a lot in the match with Black. A large part of me is willing to put Black as the presumed winner now. I don't think you put him in this type of match unless you plan to make him win it. They've been extremely protective of him and having in lose only in a situation where it was with shenanigans and he's won otherwise.

    That Viking Raiders segment was atrocious.

    Feels like Sarah Logan got more attention after being fired than she did over the last few weeks (even including her injury angle last week). That whole metamorphosis thing and Lana fixation with Liv clearly went by the waste side but she continues to show some real skills in the ring. I dig her finisher. Not really a functional way to get to a finish, but it's a good tweak to the flatliner.

    Murphy/Mysterio was good, which I expected. Did not expect Mysterio to win, though. I mean, either guy winning was fine but I guess that kind of shows that AOP going down took the wind out of the sails of Rollins' faction, so Murphy's momentum has subsided.

    Charly is thirsty as hell for Garza.

    McIntyre is totally feeling himself when it comes to talking. He sounds absolutely comfortable. Good for him.
    Last edited by BGMaverick; April 20th, 2020 at 11:10 PM.

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    I'm happy Liv got the win over Ruby, but with nothing on the line, it was just a match. Both of them are at the bottom of the Women's division, so even though Liv proved her superiority over Ruby, it's not a big deal. If they were fighting for a spot in the MITB match, it would have been a bigger victory.

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    Austin theory looks like lance storm and finn balor had a kid.

    Not feeling these empty arena Raw shows. I'm enjoying Smackdown, NXT and AEW though. Raw just seems meh.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stocky View Post
    Austin theory looks like lance storm and finn balor had a kid.

    Not feeling these empty arena Raw shows. I'm enjoying Smackdown, NXT and AEW though. Raw just seems meh.
    They're missing the stalwarts from Mania: Edge, Orton, Styles, Owens

  19. #319
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    Quote Originally Posted by BGMaverick View Post
    It could work as a placeholder feud for KO, biding time for him until they figure out something better for him. KO needs something substantial because he got a quality Mania win, had what will (or should be) a Mania moment for the future, and was ultimately underutilized for months prior to Mania. Joe just needs to be fodder for the foreseeable future because you just can't rely on him. Brilliant with what he does, but the writing is on the wall with him.

    AJ and The OC, as a group, needs something with substance when they come back. I don't think the trio had anything good prior to the Taker stuff and they just kind of lucked into looking good by the production wizardry of the Boneyard match. If Los Ingobernables de WWE is just going to be a flash in the pan, The OC really needs to step up. If they're more than just a flash in the pan, The OC needs something to differentiate themselves.
    Explain. I don't see how someone who was heavily featured for like 8 months on Raw was underutilized leading up to Mania when that was when we saw even more of the storyline. Or is this more about quality?

    I'll be honest, haven't watched Raw since Mania so is there some explanation or reasoning behind Kevin Owens not being in the mix? Did someone mysteriously attack him the night after Mania? I get why he didn't get the nod to face Drew in the sense of face v. face coming out of Mania can sometimes be strange. Plus the WWE's desire to constantly have Seth in some title picture (shocked he's not feuding with Becky).

    KO's win was huge in the grand scheme of things. If there were rankings, KO was definitely in the top 5 with Seth probably being a spot above him. So while I get the need to want Drew to face a strong heel like Seth, what's KO have to look forward to? Another AJ Styles feud? It's been a little bit and they'd for sure tear the house down. But AJ is dead so now what? To make his next opponent seem worth a damn it'll have to be a strong story.

  20. #320
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    Quality. It was either boring (one-offs with Rawley, Lashley) or redundant (the incessant need for varying tag matches with no real result of substance) after the Ladder Match with Shane in October. The dude took out a McMahon, so that should have transitioned into something stronger than something that stalled for a while and ultimately didn't matter for the loser because they went into the title picture. The most interesting thing to me was short lived, and I said in the reply below.

    In answer to your question for post-Mania: No, there's no explanation or reasoning.

    Your second set of questioning speaks to the issue with their inability to consistently book. They're doing well with McIntyre right now. Vega's stable came out strong last week but got throttled by McIntyre this week. Serves a good purpose for McIntyre but potentially stifles a budding faction.
    Last edited by BGMaverick; April 21st, 2020 at 12:36 PM.

  21. #321
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    When's the last time KO's held a title? I'd say he's overdue for another reign, especially since he's one of the few faces fans have an interest in. Have him feud with Andrade's faction and put the IC belt on him since I imagine Drew's going to hold onto the WWE title for a while. KO with the MITB briefcase would be fine too, but he's not in the match as of yet. Now that I think about it, that didn't stop Brock from winning last year. I'd love to see KO crash MITB by arriving via Helicopter on the roof.
    Last edited by Sasori; April 21st, 2020 at 12:34 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sasori View Post
    When's the last time KO's held a title? I'd say he's overdue for another reign, especially since he's one of the few faces fans have an interest in. Have him feud with Andrade's faction and put the IC belt on him since I imagine Drew's going to hold onto the WWE title for a while. KO with the MITB briefcase would be fine too, but he's not in the match. Now that I think about it, that didn't stop Brock from winning last year. I'd love to see KO crash MITB by arriving via Helicopter on the roof.
    US Championship (Face of America gimmick) in 2017. That would be the title he'd be going for with Andrade, since the IC title is on Smackdown with Zayn. Prior to Mania, the most interesting thing Owens has done of late, to me, was the tease that he'd be going back to NXT in the build to Takeover WarGames and Survivor Series.

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    Angel flirting with Charley would be far more effective it wasn’t already announced that he got engaged lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nosh Diesel View Post
    Angel flirting with Charley would be far more effective it wasn’t already announced that he got engaged lol
    His fiancé was also on Raw last week, though unannounced, as a photographer.

  25. #325
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    Quote Originally Posted by BGMaverick View Post
    US Championship (Face of America gimmick) in 2017. That would be the title he'd be going for with Andrade, since the IC title is on Smackdown with Zayn. Prior to Mania, the most interesting thing Owens has done of late, to me, was the tease that he'd be going back to NXT in the build to Takeover WarGames and Survivor Series.
    It's been that long?! Damn, that was back when he was feuding with Jericho. I just can't keep the mid-card titles straight in my head, lol.

    I forgot about the Survivor Series stuff, whether KO would betray the RAW team and help NXT win the match and all that. Could have been good for him to go back to NXT for a while.

  26. #326
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sasori View Post
    It's been that long?! Damn, that was back when he was feuding with Jericho. I just can't keep the mid-card titles straight in my head, lol.

    I forgot about the Survivor Series stuff, whether KO would betray the RAW team and help NXT win the match and all that. Could have been good for him to go back to NXT for a while.
    I would have been fine if it played out exactly as it did but played out for a little longer. I felt like maybe that was two weeks (could be wrong), but having it stretched out a month could have been good. It definitely would have given them a chance to pop a rating for NXT, too.

  27. #327
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    I'm excited for Shayna vs. Nia vs. Asuka tonight. 3 dominant women. 3 women with a name ending in A. I hope Shayna and Asuka make Nia their bitch.

  28. #328
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    Joe is reportedly going back to the booth. No idea if he’s replacing someone or if they’re foolishly going to a four-man booth.

  29. #329
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    So which is the lucky girl that gets concussed by Nia tonight?

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    Wth was that?

  31. #331
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    A preview of things to come.

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    Maybe just me here but I don’t see the point in Lashley anymore (sorry Cewsh if you still read the forums).

  33. #333
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    They let Rusev go and he hangs around and does nothing with Lana. Fucking waste of a feud for everybody.

  34. #334
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    Talented tag team yet they stick them with stupid names and headgears. #RaidersbacktoNXT where they were actually decent.

  35. #335
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    usa
    Bloody love Lashley. Bloody love Jinder. Bloody love Apollo.

  36. #336
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donald View Post
    Bloody love Lashley. Bloody love Jinder. Bloody love Apollo.
    I do agree with Apollo. Lashley is missing direction. The guy in the middle can go back in a box like the Spirit Squad except back to Canada.

  37. #337
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    I don't see Apollo winning the us title, but it's nice to dream.

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    A plus side to these roster cuts, I do like how Apollo’s getting a bit more attention at least. He’s been under-utilised for ages.

  39. #339
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    Akira could have beaten Jinder if he had hit the Ramen Noodle Moonsault, but luckily Jinder didn't give him a chance to hit it.

  40. #340
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    Akira could have beaten Jinder but unluckily the writers forgot Jinder sucks.

  41. #341
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    Drew said shit

  42. #342
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    Zelina did most people a favor by having her group interrupt the opening segment because that talking segment, in theory, was going to die a painfully slow death as constructed. This felt like another situation where they probably ran through 2-3 weeks worth of material in one episode. I thought it was nice of them to give Crews more of an opportunity over the course of the last few weeks but this feels like it's just a matter of convenience or to cycle through a new performer with new MITB faces. He's not in the match anymore but they gave him a chance to work and he stepped up. We'll see if it actually amounts to anything after the PPV.

    This felt like a wasted episode for the women's division: hyped a match that didn't pan out, re-ran a match with the exact same result, and no Becky. The only thing that felt like had a modicum of progression was the post-match interview with Liv. They gave her finisher a name, the finisher actually looked a little more natural as she ran into the motion with more urgency. The talking segment was just there but hopefully they've got something for her because she's got a lot of promise.

    I do like the fact they're showing a little more consistency of creating tangible backstory on Raw with past instances in NXT creating substance for moments. It was Andrade and McIntyre at first, then Viking Raiders and Street Profits this time around. I never, ever, ever, ever would have thought MVP would be paired with...Vink and Thorne. MVP is a perfect guy to have as a mouthpiece if he's going to be around. That said, I have no idea why this union works. They're clearly using NXT guys who have no direction and using them on the main roster now. Thorne is an intriguing guy, even in a tag team, but this tag team doesn't seem like it's got a lot of legs to it.

    Good enough segment at the end between McIntyre and Rollins. McIntyre continues to sound comfortable when he talks. He also threw the hell out of that table, too. I'm glad Murphy wasn't fully forgotten with Rollins. It seemed like that was set up to be the case, but I'm glad they brought him back around. In light of what we're seeing, part of me wonders if they should have just had Rollins win at Mania. Owens has been absent since Mania and didn't capitalize on the moment that weekend.

    Joe was good, as he was in the first go round, on commentary. Seems like Lawler is out of the picture in the booth since he was actually present in the final segment. Can't imagine anyone is upset about that alignment for the booth.
    Last edited by BGMaverick; April 27th, 2020 at 11:31 PM.

  43. #343
    an affront to god mth's Avatar
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    Please disregard skin color as having anything to do with this because it's not why I'm making these picks (didn't even occur to me until after I'd suggested it in a Youtube post) but MVP could have a really solid stable if he managed Ricochet/Cedric, Apollo Crews, and then Lashley after he drops Lana. Nice diversity of styles that has someone for every division, all of them can go in the ring and are athletic but personality/talking aren't their strong suits which MVP can compensate for, all kind of been floundering and in need of direction. Call them The Player's Club or something. Good idea, bad idea?

  44. #344
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    Quote Originally Posted by mth View Post
    Please disregard skin color as having anything to do with this because it's not why I'm making these picks (didn't even occur to me until after I'd suggested it in a Youtube post) but MVP could have a really solid stable if he managed Ricochet/Cedric, Apollo Crews, and then Lashley after he drops Lana. Nice diversity of styles that has someone for every division, all of them can go in the ring and are athletic but personality/talking aren't their strong suits which MVP can compensate for, all kind of been floundering and in need of direction. Call them The Player's Club or something. Good idea, bad idea?
    He would have fit with any of those scenarios, yet they went with what they did.
    Crews or CedRic could be a better endorsement if this tag team selection by him is just a misdirect. It could be further endorsing either Crews or CedRic if he abandons them and straps himself on the rocket he chooses.

  45. #345
    an affront to god mth's Avatar
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    Very surprised with all the positive comments I just saw on Jinder Mahal's return match Youtube clip. Like 98% were people happy he's back and looking forward to him succeeding, how he's a great promo and solid in the ring, and a good chunk of folks wanting to see him be Drew's next opponent. Not what i would've expected.

  46. #346
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    Quote Originally Posted by mth View Post
    Very surprised with all the positive comments I just saw on Jinder Mahal's return match Youtube clip. Like 98% were people happy he's back and looking forward to him succeeding, how he's a great promo and solid in the ring, and a good chunk of folks wanting to see him be Drew's next opponent. Not what i would've expected.
    Probably just because he’d been absent for so long. I’d be surprised if it lasts.

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    I don't like Jinder or anything but I'm all for a brief feud with McIntyre playing off their history. It's fresh anyway and even more so with Jinder being gone for so long. Far more interesting than just facing Seth Rollins again and again for months. As a general rule I prefer champions moving on to different challengers for each PPV tbh (and then potentially going back to a challenger if there's unfinished business down the line - but that hasn't really been how WWE has booked for a long time).

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    I would have built up Jinder's return more. I would have filmed a series of vignettes showing Jinder training. He could have stated he's been out with an injury. And even before his injury, he had begun to lose sight of what really matters. The WWE championship. He could tell Drew he did all the get fired, come back stronger than ever well before him.

    Only problem with that I suppose is that it would be a given that McIntyre would retain against Rollins, unless you have Mahal cost McIntyre the title.

    Instead they just say "Up next, Jinder Mahal returns!" A man of Jinder's caliber deserves much more than that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ringo View Post
    I don't like Jinder or anything but I'm all for a brief feud with McIntyre playing off their history. It's fresh anyway and even more so with Jinder being gone for so long. Far more interesting than just facing Seth Rollins again and again for months. As a general rule I prefer champions moving on to different challengers for each PPV tbh (and then potentially going back to a challenger if there's unfinished business down the line - but that hasn't really been how WWE has booked for a long time).
    I tend to think this is what's happening. It's sloppy with what they did but they really tried to hammer the audience over the head that Mahal was a former world champion. I mean, how many times do you hear the ring announcer say someone is a "former champion" when they're coming out to the ring for a match?

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    Shame Slater’s gone, could have been a good middle man in this storyline. Just Two Man band now.

  51. #351
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nosh Diesel View Post
    Shame Slater’s gone, could have been a good middle man in this storyline. Just Two Man band now.
    I listened to him on Lillian Garcia's Chasing Glory pod. He's already an enjoyable person but you definitely find more reasons to like him after listening to him for a long period of time.

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    In front of a live crowd, that contrast signing would've went over very well. Drew versus Seth is a low-key great feud. I hope it continues.

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    They're using other released talent so could still use Slater for this feud.

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    I'm upset that Apollo Crews can't compete in the MITB match. Was really looking forward to that. Sometimes they have some out of nowhere wins and was hoping that would happen with Crews. I just hope this injury leads to a US championship match when he returns, and wins that shit. Wish he wouldn't smile all the time. Just be a bad ass dude.

  55. #355
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ringo View Post
    They're using other released talent so could still use Slater for this feud.

    Slater should be brought back to be a Special Guest Referee. After all, he's got kids!

  56. #356
    an affront to god mth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donald View Post
    I'm upset that Apollo Crews can't compete in the MITB match. Was really looking forward to that. Sometimes they have some out of nowhere wins and was hoping that would happen with Crews. I just hope this injury leads to a US championship match when he returns, and wins that shit. Wish he wouldn't smile all the time. Just be a bad ass dude.
    Feel the same. Hoping that taking him out is to set up something bigger for when he comes back. Thought they might be building to a break out moment in MITB but I guess we'll have to see what they do with him next.

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    Don't hinder Jinder!

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    Forgive me for referencing Cewsh a bit, but the initial positive reaction to Jinder does seem a bit AES-ish because he's been away a bit. He went from zero to won't say hero but main event as WWE seemingly tried to tap into the Indian market but apart from questions about him roiding up, he had multiple bore-fests with Orton and bordering racist promos in the Nakamura build-up. He was terrible.

    3MB interaction with McIntyre aside, how can they build him as a credible threat against Drew? He's basically eaten Vega's stable alive and if Jinder still had the Singh Bros he'd probably eat them too. Won't be any crowds for any crowds for a while either so not as if Jinder could feed off that.

    The fact they repeated him as "Oh he was a former world champ btw" on his return casts further doubt. If they catapult him into a feud straight after Drew is done withnRollins then they'd be making the same mistakes again doing it too fast. At least let him do a midcard run and if/if not is used then add Slater into the feud.

  59. #359
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donald View Post
    I'm upset that Apollo Crews can't compete in the MITB match. Was really looking forward to that. Sometimes they have some out of nowhere wins and was hoping that would happen with Crews. I just hope this injury leads to a US championship match when he returns, and wins that shit. Wish he wouldn't smile all the time. Just be a bad ass dude.
    I agree about the smiling, but you just know he has no say in the matter. Like Finn on the main roster.

  60. #360
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    Nobody can smile like DDP. Pointless trying.

  61. #361
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nosh Diesel View Post
    Forgive me for referencing Cewsh a bit, but the initial positive reaction to Jinder does seem a bit AES-ish because he's been away a bit. He went from zero to won't say hero but main event as WWE seemingly tried to tap into the Indian market but apart from questions about him roiding up, he had multiple bore-fests with Orton and bordering racist promos in the Nakamura build-up. He was terrible.

    3MB interaction with McIntyre aside, how can they build him as a credible threat against Drew? He's basically eaten Vega's stable alive and if Jinder still had the Singh Bros he'd probably eat them too. Won't be any crowds for any crowds for a while either so not as if Jinder could feed off that.

    The fact they repeated him as "Oh he was a former world champ btw" on his return casts further doubt. If they catapult him into a feud straight after Drew is done withnRollins then they'd be making the same mistakes again doing it too fast. At least let him do a midcard run and if/if not is used then add Slater into the feud.
    with no fans there, now might be the best time to do it so drew can move on to something bigger for summerslam.

  62. #362
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    Quote Originally Posted by PurePlayer View Post
    with no fans there, now might be the best time to do it so drew can move on to something bigger for summerslam.
    It’s be interesting to see how they can push Jinder as an actual threat after being away for so long and the fact that Drew’s eaten everyone including Lesnar in his path so far. It probably be like:
    Jinder: “Oh I was a world champ btw and I know Drew. Nobody knows him better than meee! I deserve a title shot!@
    Drew: “Okay.”
    *claymore*
    Drew: “Next!”

  63. #363
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    The ratings for these shows are interesting. Previously people have pointed to competition as to why the shows don't do well, and that pretty much encompasses most of the year - Monday Night Football, NBA, NHL, MLB, March Madness - but they're all shut down due to off season's or coronavirus and the ratings are actually worse than ever. Now obviously the shows feeling soulless is impactful and has driven off a few fans, but the truth about WWE is that it just isn't on the sport's fans minds at all anymore. It's not "oh hockey's not on, I'll watch wrestling", they're just not a factor at all. Amazing to think what FOX spent on it, they got absolutely sold down the river.

  64. #364
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    Eh weren’t FOX clamouring for Brock and Rousey on their shows? Such brilliant decisions when they took over like
    FOX: “Here’s a smashing idea! Brock beats Kofi in eight seconds, that’ll pull the punters in and get crossover appeal!”

    WWE aren’t blameless but a large part of the blame should go to FOX. So much promise for Smackdown yet they pissed it up even well before the crisis.

  65. #365
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    I think it's lack of interesting characters. They might have some of the best talent in the world, but Seth Rollins is a boring person. Drew McIntyre is a boring character. There's no sense of unpredictability. Remember when RAW felt, you know, raw? Stripped down. Now it's all over produced bullshit. You're only appealing to already wrestling fans, you are not going to hook non-wrestlers with the shit they have now. I guess it's changed due to being a public company, advertisers to keep happy, and all that shit.

  66. #366
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    Well really the fans wanted Seth heel and they now have it. Drew was very over too before this lockdown kicked in. Drew is doing everything right and as far as he goes I think, there being no audience is hurting his reign.
    Last edited by Nosh Diesel; April 30th, 2020 at 11:08 AM.

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    Really though regardless of who they put on top, wrestling is just not gonna hit the peak it did in the late 90’s. There is no easy answer. There is no viable Hogan, Austin or yes Cena too candidate that can push or carry the brand like before. We hardcore fans love it and always will but it would take something really extraordinary to make it common mainstream appeal like it was.

  68. #368
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nosh Diesel View Post
    Eh weren’t FOX clamouring for Brock and Rousey on their shows? Such brilliant decisions when they took over like
    FOX: “Here’s a smashing idea! Brock beats Kofi in eight seconds, that’ll pull the punters in and get crossover appeal!”

    WWE aren’t blameless but a large part of the blame should go to FOX. So much promise for Smackdown yet they pissed it up even well before the crisis.
    So they sold FOX the contract based on Rousey and Lesnar, and have used them a combined... once(?) on Smackdown since? Doesn't sound much like FOX's fault to me. They were sold a show on stars and they got Bray Wyatt in a mask and King Corbin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fanny Batter View Post
    So they sold FOX the contract based on Rousey and Lesnar, and have used them a combined... once(?) on Smackdown since? Doesn't sound much like FOX's fault to me. They were sold a show on stars and they got Bray Wyatt in a mask and King Corbin.
    Though at the same time Rousey is twiddling her thumbs seemingly over her return with a year left in her contract, don’t think you can put all that down to WWE. Lesnar well he kinda worked WWE to work limited dates and if FOX in turn got worked too then that may be their fault for not seeing it.

    FOX maybe dictates things but sometimes shit happens and WWE can’t deliver. Again what has gone out in the product since WWE are not blameless for but I don’t think you can put all the blame on them. If anything FOX should have been smarter.

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    do Lesnar and Rousey even bring in higher ratings? I think they stay the same even if they were featured every week. Waste of money if you ask me.

  71. #371
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    I think Lesnar and Rousey have increased viewership in their segments, but nothing earth shattering.

  72. #372
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donald View Post
    I think Lesnar and Rousey have increased viewership in their segments, but nothing earth shattering.
    right. so are the extra 50k in viewers or whatever it is worth the millions they get paid? I don't even know how many thousands they bring in but just guessing it doesn't equate to what they get paid.

  73. #373
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    FOX signed the deal with WWE in June 2018, when Lesnar was Universal champion (probably why he retained at that year's 'Mania) and Rousey was only 6 months through a 3 year contract. I'm fairly sure FOX doesn't throw all that money at the WWE if they don't get those 2, and Cena. WWE gives them a lot of content to fill airtime but in terms of their prospects at giving them a good chunk of viewers at primetime on Friday, they fall way short.

    Of course, it could be argued that those factors don't actually add that much to the bottom line, and their involvement is basically selling wolf tickets. People just can't be arsed with watching wrestling anymore.

  74. #374
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    Yes I think it is minimal Donald. Really I think a large part of it may boil down to FOX having unrealistic expectations of these guys and if they signed the contract then too bad. They’re a major network who should have known what they were doing so don’t have much sympathy for them to be frank.

  75. #375
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fanny Batter View Post
    People just can't be arsed with watching wrestling anymore.
    Pretty much what I said in a nutshell a couple of posts ago. FOX’s bad maybe really for entering into it.

    There is no quick fix in the foreseeable future for ratings.

  76. #376
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    With the marketing segmentation being what it is, ratings are likely NEVER to be what they were. There are some outliers, but by and large the Nielsen rating required to be a top 10 or "hit" show are decreasing year over year. The "rating" is less of a total measure each year. Its somewhat why we see more events noting "viewership" vs. ratings.

    Which is not to imply that WWE doesn't have problems. The decrease they've seen at different points has outstripped the normal market decrease.

    For Fox, I'm not sure that they were complete buffoons who randomly signed a contract one day and put no thought into hundreds of million of spend. I would imagine they vetted the situation heavily and didn't place all their financials on Brock Lesnar suddenly going full-time. They placed Smackdown on Friday knowing that Friday ratings are almost always bad, but that WWE has a core demographic that watches regardless. They also have no reruns and viewership is more time sensitive than many shows. It does give them some advantage in terms of engaging advertising.


    The current viewership is interesting. There are several things I like right now, like the ascension of Drew. However, I agree that it feels "soulless" , its easy to feel like this is an intermediary period where nothing of significance will happen until the "real" WWE returns.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nosh Diesel View Post
    It’s be interesting to see how they can push Jinder as an actual threat after being away for so long and the fact that Drew’s eaten everyone including Lesnar in his path so far. It probably be like:
    Jinder: “Oh I was a world champ btw and I know Drew. Nobody knows him better than meee! I deserve a title shot!@
    Drew: “Okay.”
    *claymore*
    Drew: “Next!”
    Drew and Jinder should discuss which of them has more "grit".

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    This week's events made me think outside the box for what Drew should have cooking for him after Rollins and before the next big feud for him in the summer.


  79. #379
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    Titus O'Neil still wrestles?

  80. #380
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    Drew vs Priest would be cool, but I doubt anyone booking is thinking in that direction.

    I hope Oney Lorcan shows up in this gauntlet match.

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    Honestly, given that Lashley and Benjamin are both floating on RAW like an astronaut stranded in space, they'd make a great tag-team. Bobbo, Shelty, and Lana would be a great trio.

  82. #382
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    Lana is looking hot backstage. I mean stupid hot.

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    AJ was mean as hell tonight. His promo was good and ridiculous too. He's such a throwback heel on the mic. He 'understood' that he got buried

    I prefer him without the job squad behind him.

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    Seth dressed and looked like zodd from Superman 2

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    Main Eventer Horatio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rom7878 View Post
    Seth dressed and looked like zodd from Superman 2
    That's interesting. I didn't know that, but I guess it makes sense.

    Edge/Orton next week. That's cool as hell.

  86. #386
    Main Eventer Horatio's Avatar
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    Uh oh. They're going with Throne and VINK~
    maybe Vince is mad at Ric...

  87. #387
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    aussie stephen bonnar could be something

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    Main Eventer Horatio's Avatar
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    Are we getting this tag match at Money in the Bank, too?

    Damn, Ford landed weird.

    I like his cross-eyed selling. It's a nice touch.

    Freaking great tag match. SP/VR is a good pairing. The Raiders really own playing the upper hand on the Profits.
    Last edited by Horatio; May 4th, 2020 at 10:03 PM.

  89. #389
    Main Eventer Horatio's Avatar
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    I like Aleister getting umbrageous at AJ for saying he would throw him off a building. Those two have history and they should fight forever.

  90. #390
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    Quote Originally Posted by Horatio View Post
    I like Aleister getting umbrageous at AJ for saying he would throw him off a building. Those two have history and they should fight forever.
    Styles (and the rest of The OC) delivered Black his first loss on the main roster, too.

  91. #391
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    That's right; I knew he wasn't undefeated at this point but I couldn't remember the occasion.

  92. #392
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    Flair's thing gets old, but I like how fast she can apply the figure-4/8.

  93. #393
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    I don't get the half-hearted investment in Carrillo. Either do something with him or move on to someone else. Every few weeks, he comes back, barely says a word (if anything) and just wrestles. There's absolutely nothing of major substance there as to why anyone should really like the guy. Good to see Styles back. Hopefully he has a significant mean streak to him. I figured Black was going to be the winner but it seems misguided to bring Styles back and into this match if he's not going to win it. There is some intrigue since Styles and Black essentially went at each other. They've got stuff to work with when it comes to those two. Black's new setup for his backstage promo was a nice touch.

    I guess there's an underneath tag feud with Vink/Thorne beating Alexander and Ricochet. I guess they booked themselves into that result by having MVP align with Vink/Thorne. Seems counterproductive for a team that's been together on TV for a longer period of time.

    No idea why they went with a match between Viking Raiders and Street Profits other than to go with the tired trope of the champions being pinned. Could've left some more intrigue by having a talking segment and have that lead to a match Sunday.

    Liv/Charlotte was pretty good. I do appreciate that they took the time before Liv came out to promote the match on Wednesday with Io. Seems like a simple step but they don't do it very often. Liv got a good showcase with this match and she's got potential as a plucky underdog babyface. We were a lionsault away from a full-blown Jericho tribute in that match (Charlotte did the Walls and Liv did the codebreaker).

    Reigns went from being in one of the main events of Mania to being essentially edited out in a countdown package. Crazy times as he's essentially become persona non grata.

    More Edge and Orton? Interesting...

    Murphy is really smooth in the ring. It was hilarious how he was mocking McIntyre at the finish only to sell the hell out of the Claymore. Rollins' reaction to that was priceless. There's very little that McIntyre is doing right now that isn't clicking. Definitely maintaining his momentum as the champ.

  94. #394
    an affront to god mth's Avatar
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    I find it kind of funny how for weeks in the vignettes they were airing prior to her return, Liv was talking about how she'd taken the time to find her true self and finally knew who she was...and now for the past couple of RAWs the focal point of her promos is that she's still trying to figure out who she is...

  95. #395
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    Quote Originally Posted by mth View Post
    I find it kind of funny how for weeks in the vignettes they were airing prior to her return, Liv was talking about how she'd taken the time to find her true self and finally knew who she was...and now for the past couple of RAWs the focal point of her promos is that she's still trying to figure out who she is...
    The silly kids, floating from one belief to another...
    It was almost a year between matches for Charlotte and Liv.

  96. #396
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    So Ricochet’s gone from one of the hottest prospects to now losing to a team of two no-names. Never mind the Lesnar debacle in Saudi Arabia just before that.

    Whose cornflakes has he pissed in as of late?

  97. #397
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    I don't like how they brought back Styles. He did great and everything but I mean the script he was given basically saying the Boneyard match meant nothing yadda yadda. He should have displayed a mean streak and how that match affected him. yes he did mention how if he can go through that he can get through the Money in the bank. I just thought more could have been done with his character

  98. #398
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    They do like their gauntlet matches lately but this one was probably the worst. Should really be the face getting early heroic runs not Lashley who also got eliminated in the lamest way possible. Also as was mentioned earlier they cannot seem to make their mind up with Humberto.

    I’d have probably just done a battle royal with AJ coming out last. The match is about to start then his entrance music hits.
    Last edited by Nosh Diesel; May 5th, 2020 at 11:33 AM.

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    Am I imagining things or did AJ show up on RAW and no sell being buried alive? Did he at least say Gallows and Anderson dug him out or are they persona non grata now?

  100. #400
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sasori View Post
    Am I imagining things or did AJ show up on RAW and no sell being buried alive?
    He essentially said it didn't matter that he got buried because it wasn't an instance of wins and losses. It all boiled down to what he literally said: "so what?"

    Quote Originally Posted by Sasori View Post
    Did he at least say Gallows and Anderson dug him out or are they persona non grata now?
    No, and I as mentioned earlier, that's Roman Reigns.
    They highlighted the best moments of MITB and essentially scrubbed Reigns out of Rollins' cash-in at Mania.

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