RAW
Matt Hardy vs Randy Orton - No Holds Barred
Aleister Black vs Erick Rowan
to Matt Hardy
RAW
Matt Hardy vs Randy Orton - No Holds Barred
Aleister Black vs Erick Rowan
Randy playing a psychotic has it down to a pat
So that's it for Matt Hardy?
I've really been enjoying Rowan's singles run. He's doing a lot with what he's been given, it seems to work.
Rowan definitely delivers. He should be a good guy withat beautiful dropkick.
Hour and 15 min into RAW and there have been 5 posts. Oof.
Black and Rowan beat the shit outta each other. They should have got another 5 minutes.
Baszler said a bad language word.
Shit
Finally rusev on tv
Shayna is hot.
I have no idea what Garza is saying. Why are they letting himspeak english?
Didn’t Garza propose to his GF in NXT lol
Did rusev just do Chris Benoit finishing move
Black and Rowan should fight again and again.
Carrillo is killin it tonight; that suicide dive was hardcore.
How come people say he has no gimmick? He's a babyface like Reyrey and a tecnico like old lightnin Eddy. Plus he's built like a god. He's almost eye to eye wit Lashley and he's comin outta 205live!
Yeah I believe he did. It's weird having NXT Garza face and RAW Garza heel. I think this guy is a lot more fun to watch than Andrade. But Garza kinda reminds me of a young Uncle Rico, it seems to be the haircut that does it. I hope they don't give him some lame football gimmick.
Rusev gets rolled up and pinned by Garza... clubs Garza from behind and raises his arms in victory... why is WWE this way?
I wonder what they're doing w/ the Street Profits tonight...
My god they sound like crackheads
Garza isn't a face on NXT. He's definitely a heel or at the very least a tweener.Originally Posted by Bagel
Ok. Last time I saw him (not the proposal) he seemed to come off as a face.
They've kind of flip flopped with him a bit initially (hence the tweener remark) but he seems to have been solidly a heel since the feud with Rush where he took his pants off in front of another man's wife.
I wish they'd actually do something with the womens tag titles besides parading them around. Kabuki Warriors are great with everything they are doing as a team. I feel like it's a matter of time before those titles just disappear.
Garza can be kinda over the top, but he and Lio toned it down and told a good story in their match last week.
He covers his greenness with that shit eating grin. He's over but i don't think he's ready for how he's been booked.
Would be amazing if cult of personality hit lol
I hope Ricochet gets a nearfall on Brock. He deserves it...
Whose idea was it to change Buddy? He was perfecto.
Last edited by corinoismybestfriend; February 17th, 2020 at 11:39 PM.
I was curious on how they planned to answer skepticism in regards to Hardy from the previous week. Granted Hardy didn't have the neck issues Edge had but having him readily available for a match one week after the same attack the Edge suffered (with no significant update on him) did seem kind of weird. They closed that loop, though, so I give kudos to them for that.
So you're telling me Shayna Baszler isn't a vampire and last week was just a different approach to make an impact against Becky Lynch? You don't say?!?! It was a good promo by Baszler, and I'm sure Chuck Taylor was jealous of it in one specific way. I do like the fact that Becky's jacket had the sideplates of the women she's taken out during her reign.
Angel Garza is incredible with charisma but still pretty crappy when it comes to talking. Just use Vega for that and wait a while to give Garza more rope in that department. Rusev probably has to be in the top 5 on the roster in terms of underutilization There's got to be something of better use for him.
I'll take more Kabuki Warriors celebrations haha.
Good to see AJ Styles back after his injury at the Rumble. If the rumored match with him at Mania does go down, so be it.
I think Liv Morgan was inspired in the sense of her attire for the evening from Seven from WCW.
You can tell Rollins is getting more entrenched in this role as his "Take it home, Seth" promos have returned. I guess it's good that the Street Profits have something more tangible to do. The main angle with Rollins seems to be spinning its wheels though. That Frog Splash from Ford though...
That's the only problem with the Seth angle. It's entertaining and a good use of the people involved, but with Mania still a decent stretch away and Brock having the title, it's just seeing what permutation we can get of Seth and his disciples and KO and friends. I think once we get out of the 'Mania build and maybe have some roster shake-ups, we'll be able to see them do something of greater significance.
That said, Street Profits getting involved makes me wonder if the plan is for them to fight for the titles at WrestleMania.
Dawkins is freakishly cool in the ring. His spears remind me of LA Park. Big and fat.
And Ford is an absolute maniac when he gets to fly.
I like them ring-wise much more than on the mic.
To be fair, they were better in NXT on the mic. They weren't extremely great, but their natural delivery was smoother.
They're good talkers but their promos tend to go on a little bit long. (I never saw them in NXT.)
I think when they get to do the live promos like a couple weeks ago, they are good. The backstage promos on the main roster have been hit or miss, especially lately. The first couple months they had me rollin'.
I think once they actually have things to talk about instead of being RAW hosts, they'll only get better.
It was still stupid as fuck.
Enjoyed the Randy Orton/Matt Hardy stuff, though bit put off by the crowd chanting "One more time"? Didn't see about an hour after that, tuned back in during Natalya vs. Sane. Overall good show, but the main event scene just feels like too many people involved. Also, where was Samoa Joe?
Yeah I've never been into the "heel fans" if that makes any sense. The ones that are like "Let's be cool and chant one more time for some vile shit!" Nerds.Enjoyed the Randy Orton/Matt Hardy stuff, though bit put off by the crowd chanting "One more time"
I am wondering why Joe wasn't there as well.
Decent RAW but felt like nothing happened. Also, Rowan vs Black should have had more buildup. they were both on big winning streaks. you would think they would hype it up a bit more.
Yeah, kind of not happy Rowan took the pinfall either. I thought when Black hit the first Black Mass that Rowan was going to fall to the outside and maybe get counted out.
- - - Updated - - -
For sure. Chanting delete delete one minute next minute they want the guy they where chanting for to be paralyzed.
I think that's the problem with most of the things they've got going right now: spinning their wheels.
My money is on Styles to win the gauntlet match to look strong heading into Mania
These Saudi shows throw everything. Elimination Chamber is like 10 days after that show, but you can't promote a whole lot for the Chamber without getting through Super Showdown. So they'll have two Smackdown's and a Raw to chuck together something for that show, theeeeen after that show they can start booking towards 'Mania. Revenue rules the roost though and these shows make them money. Plus, you've got stuff like Styles' injury and Andrade's suspension, two guys that will have big roles at 'Mania who they haven't been able to use for a couple of weeks.
The Raw side for 'Mania couldn't be more open beyond the three showpiece matches (Lesnar/McIntyre, Becky/Shayna and Edge/Orton). The end game for the Rollins storyline isn't clear as it's a big clusterfuck at the minute with 4 on the heel side, 5 on the faces. Andrade presumably comes back and does something with Mysterio, Carillo and Garza, or maybe not, maybe that was meant to be his filler angle before moving on. The part timers like Shane, Trip and 'Taker are nowhere to be seen yet and they could have a role to play. Will be interesting. Working on the notion that there's only 3 matches max left to book given the battle royals, how do they fill them? Rollins, Joe, Owens, Mysterio, Andrade, Black and Styles are guys I just can't see relegated to the Battle Royal, but if 'Taker is working Styles as rumoured then how do you fit all the other guys in? Fortunately the belts are in the mix, but surely both aren't going to be clusterfucks? Rollins, given his push, isn't going to be working a multi-man for the tag team titles is he?
They can easily hold off Rollins vs Owens for Mania. it would be weird to have a storyline since November blow off a month before Mania. Just let it ride out.
I agree. Elimination Chamber doesn't exactly scream BLOW OFF but you never know. I personally feel you have the top 2 guys lined up to face the winner of Brock v. Drew after Mania for several months. Seth v. KO @ Mania with the idea that Seth goes over to feud with Drew could be pretty awesome leading into the Summer. IDK If they'd want to run a face v. face feud with KO or turn KO considering he's arguably the most popular guy on the Raw roster, even more than 321 Drew.
I am just basing it on how the feud has been going so far but I feel like KO would need the win more. The Rollins stable has been winning pretty consistently going in. But yeah I see your point of Rollins being the first to challenge Drew. although you never know when the next superstar shakeup is.
I'm expecting next to nothing happening at Super Showdown in regards to Owens and Rollins because Owens doesn't go to Saudi.
I'm really digging Seth's look these days. He's got a Joseph Seed from Far Cry 5 thing going on and it's pretty cool in my book. One thing I've always felt has been w/ Seth is he hasn't quite found his look until now. Like he started w/ his all black pants, to black/grey, to red, gold, black/yellow, GOLD, fire pants... this here I feel like is his perfect attire. The leather jacket w/ the one glove and hair in a bun is perfect, if he throws in some clear yellow sunglasses I'll mark out hard.
hence the street profits being introduced to the fold
So Rollins vs. Owens, Styles vs. Undertaker and an Andrade multi-man?
It's crazy thinking how long these shows would be if they didn't condense shit. Raw could probably put on a legit Wrestlemania, with the help of part timers and the NXT addition, by itself at this point. Legitimately.
Lesnar vs. McIntyre for the WWE title
Becky vs. Shayna for the Raw Women's title
Orton vs. Edge
Styles vs. Undertaker
Rollins vs. Owens
Rhea vs. Charlotte for the NXT title
Andrade vs. Mysterio vs. Carillo vs. Garza for the US title
Black vs. Joe
Street Profits vs. AOP vs. Good Brothers vs. Vikings for the Raw tag titles
Kabuki Warriors vs. Divas of Doom vs. Riott/Logan vs. Iiconics for the Women's tag titles
Ricochet vs. Murphy on the Pre Show
Rest of the roster in a 24/7 battle royal a la WM2000 on the pre show
Any need for Smackdown?
Well Daniel Bryan for one. New Day.Fiend. Reigns. Miz/Morrison etc.
Unless you are arguing that the best talent be condensed into one show. The problem is there's so much good talent that they really cannot do that. Even if they added some NXT additions onto the main rosters, it would also invalidate NXT a bit being that it's a third brand now.
I think the three shows can all still be viable but agree at the same time they need to trim some dead weight
Half of those matches listed from the Raw side could easily go sideways in terms of the story/build.
Just in general, you have to go pretty damn far to reach the tipping point of something if the quality of the content is very good.
If there's one show that needs to be cut it's 205 Live. Harsh as that may sound and I've loved the work on there myself, the mainstream audience don't give a shit if there's no reason to care. Sprinkle the guys that matter between the shows or just keep them on NXT defending the belt.
Agreed, sadly. They made it this far, but I haven't caught an episode in a long time.
I say that with a heavy heart too because I've seen some cracking matches on there. However it's not promoted enough, a big chunk of the SD live audience has already gone home by the time it's taping and when they do try to carry on storylines from there to the TV shows to try and promote it, it has the opposite effect because people don't know who they are.
205 Live should be replaced by a Velocity of sorts, for the people not wrestling on Smackdown. Main Event basically, but likely with the occasional decent match since it's harder to leave stars off a 3 hour show.
Shows like Main Event and 205 Live could use some talent that were higher up the card. When I turn on Main Event and see the same matches with the same 6-7 people that are usually low midcard level, it does zero for a fan. Who wants to see EY v. Titus or Sarah Logan v. Natalya 4 weeks in a row with the same exact result?
205 Live is weird because they defend the title on NXT. Maybe defending it on this show would also help, seems like it's been a long, long time since we had a CW title defense on 205. Could be wrong. That show has some really good talent but again, where's the interest?
When the 205 Live guys appear on the main shows, they are essentially jobbers. No one expects them to win because they don't. I'm looking at you Akira Tozawa. It needs to be advertised more and the guys need to not look like chumps. Murphy is an example that these cruiserweights are able to cut it on the main rosters.
Exactly. And if you're going to do Akira and guys like him like you would Barry Horowitz, then don't try to pretend they matter on other shows.
Personally I feel Jack Gallagher is the biggest missed opportunity of allnthe cruiserweights. He can do comedy but also be a badass and never got a title run plus loses nearly all the time.
The Bollywood Boys aren't funny to me and I haven't heard anyone say what's worth watching about them. I don't know why Drew Gulak's title run was ended. The Brian Kendrick is one of my favorite guys to watch and I still forget to watch 205live because the booking is so asstarded.
I agree Jack Gallagher shouldn't be treated like Akira Tozawa.
Akira Tozawa shouldn't be treated like a jobber.
Tony Nese should be jobbing because that would be funny if he remained The PremierAthlete while failing to ever lock in a victory.
Agree with all but the last statement.
Jack Gallagher is someone who has potential to be on any of the top 3 brand and matter. I could see him as IC or US champion, a tag-team champion, any of the NXT titles. World or Universal? That'd be a stretch at this point but you never know. He needs to bring back the umbrella.
suspected you would...
The thing that ultimately doomed this venture is the fact that there's no hook. The hook with the CW division in the WCW days was the fact that these guys were different and wrestled in a different style. Eventually some of them had depth to their characters but they were radically different than what was going on for the rest of Nitro because of the in-ring style. Looking at today, you have basically most of the main roster able to perform like the CW guys in the sense that their style can be dynamic but it all blends together. That's great for the quality of the in-ring product, but the current CW crop can't stand out. You're just asking the audience to invest more and the saturation point has been reached.
Also don't play him at UFC3 because he will kick your arse. One of my favourites on UUDD.
Truth.
And in reality, a lot of the main roster are cruiserweights. Pete Dunn, Daniel Brian, Rey Mysterio, Cole, Strong, Ciampa, Gargano, Ricochet. Even Murphy, Rollins, and Ziggler would have been cruiserweights in old WCW and they all should be hooks for a legit network-exclusive CW Division.
Garza is like a foot taller than Ciampa and Carrillo is almost as big as Lashley yet they were using them as Cruiserweights. Strange to me.
Edit - little Nakamura and Styles too!
Last edited by corinoismybestfriend; February 19th, 2020 at 3:43 PM.
If I was to choose the ones worth keeping from 205 Live, they would be:
Aiden Enlgish (commentator)
Garza
Gallagher
Swerve
Rush
Lorcan
Tozawa
That's it.
@BGMaverick
Very solid points.
I don't see why they needed to have their own show to be honest. I had 1 issue with them being on Raw and that was the need to change the ropes and lighting. Why? It didn't make anything special.
I have only watched a handful of episodes since Summerslam but I noticed the matches aren't even that fast paced which they should be. I agree that a lot of wrestlers were inspired by the WCW product so we see a lot of that influence in talent that aren't your typical 5'7" 199lbs cruiserweight. But I also think that the bigger guys just do a slower version of that style so it needs to be showcased just how much more fast paced the 205 Live show is.
My boss caught a glance of AEW just flipping through the channels, it was a commercial. He said "It feels like this AEW is more acrobatics and non-stop flying through the air" And I have to agree. The show moves faster in the ring and that's how the CW division should feel as well. Not just a smaller version of Randy Orton. That was an issue they had the first time around. Great division, great cast, but it went from what we grew up with from CW's to them being like everyone else and eventually being jobbers. Very very very few CW's from the Ruthless era managed to break out and I think a major part was that they weren't taken seriously, just like today.
This is not even remotely true lol.
Go back and watch around Ciampa's return when he and Garza had a backstage vignette. Garza dwarfed him.
Also, size was not even an issue in that tag match when Carrillo and Lashley locked up. Carrillo is a legit 6'1" (Lashley, unfortunately, is just 6'3") and he's built like a helicopter. That's why Will Ospreay would cost so much for WWE. They would have to shoot him up to the top.
2 things. #1 I misread and thought you were saying Garza was taller than both Ciampa and Carillo....I thought your post had another "and" after Carillo so I was like, hold up is this dude saying Garza and Lashley are close to same size lol. My bad.
#2-I'm watching Ciampa v. Garza and I'm not sure where you're getting Garza dwarfing Ciampa. I mean, we know billed height should be taken with a grain but Tommaso is listed as 5'11", Garza at 5'9". Watching this match I don't see a size difference that makes me think "Damn Garza is much larger".
Yeah from that video Ciampa appears taller.
I can appreciate the effort to differentiate but you're already losing the battle because these guys are wrestling like how Rollins, Ricochet, Bryan, and others are already wrestling but most of the audience doesn't know who the guys in the ring are. It had to be 2-4 months ago where I stopped seeking out 205 Live matches. I think it was Gable/Gallagher where I stopped. I'll reiterate or back up what you gathered when you watched. When I did seek stuff out, it felt more like NXT TV main event matches but watered down because the characters weren't as developed and the audience heat wasn't there. So you have that and you have the lack of flying going on. It's cool if you get a good match out of it but it's just there.
I can't remember the Wednesday but Meltzer was comparing a tag match with Hangman and Omega versus one of the matches going during the Dusty tournament. I wish I could remember. It might have been The Broserweights versus Andrews/Webster. I think that's it. Anyway, he was saying they were basically the same match when he was meeting critiques that the AEW tag match had more sizzle and flashy stuff. I think he has a very flimsy argument because I think NXT shows its work (using a math analogy) more in terms of telling a story. I think AEW will tell a story or have matches that focus on working a limb but I don't think they're consistent in terms of really enhancing a match with that. They're more geared towards presenting matches that have an all gas, no breaks approach. Granted, they'll do more traditional matches but I felt he chose the wrong hill to stand on.
I saw Omega and Page vs. SCU and to me it looked like they were waiting for their spots. Nothing wrong with that I suppose as the spots were pretty fun, but I don't seem to notice that as much with the NXT matches.
Pro Wrestling Sheet reported that Joe suffered a head injury while filming a commercial. Apparently there was a spot in a WWE commercial and he hit his head on a table during a table break spot. Coming off a concussion, sounds like he could be out for a while.Enjoyed the Randy Orton/Matt Hardy stuff, though bit put off by the crowd chanting "One more time"
Joe just keeps getting injured.
Ever since he was in TNA and he had knee surgery I believe he hasn't been the same since. It's been pretty bad in the WWE. I mean, he was hurt within a month of debuting on the main roster. SUCKS. When he's healthy and given purpose, dude knocks it out the park every single time.
It would be ironic if it was a commercial for headache medicine.
If Drew Gulak were a foot taller and 60 pounds heavier, he'd be the modern day Val Venis. He'd be the WWE's premier mid-card guy. If anyone has ever seen his 205 Live match with Tony Nese during the Cruiserweight Title Tournament (the one they held after they fired Enzo Amore- Rapist Muppet), you'd know this guy has the potential to be a 2020 version of Ken Shamrock. He stretched Nese like a Stretch Armstrong toy and used a bunch of MMA-style attacks to completely batter him. For one match and then part of the tournament, Gulak was booked like a fucking killer. Its like somebody finally let Gulak shuck off all the bullshit attempts at comedy and that silly "no dives" gimmick and just told him to go out there and work a serious match, without any bullshit. Its just a shame he's too small to really match up physically with so many heavyweights.
Also, I've said it before, but Brian Kendrick has the ability and the experience as well as the charisma and the personality to be a modern day "Loose Cannon" Brian Pillman. Not only do they sort of look alike, but Kendrick carries off the attitude and the personality of a heel Pillman. Just without all the bad habits. But WWE won't give the poor bastard a shot at doing anything.
Kendrick would be a fine coach, but as a wrestler he's been boring since the CW Classic.
I believe he does coach often. I know he was a big asset for WWE when it came to Rousey getting integrated in the ring.
Liv previewed that outfit earlier in the month.
https://twitter.com/YaOnlyLivvOnce/s...20479164919812
Not to mention there were some boos when Randy didn't murder Matt immediately and walked away the first time.Enjoyed the Randy Orton/Matt Hardy stuff, though bit put off by the crowd chanting "One more time"
I thought they moved 205 to Full Sail as a replacement for NXT.
You could be right on that one. Been ages since I kept up with the 205 Live going ons.
205 Live definitely didn't move to Full Sail. They still tape 205 Live to air after Smackdown, so it moved to Fridays.
They promote a dark match to the audience during Smackdown to entice people to stay through 205 Live.
I looked into it and 205 Live held a one time show at Full Sail last November. I thought it was going to be permanent, but I must have misunderstood the announcement.
Aleister Black vs Rowan in a rematch tonight. Looks like there is one official thread for RAW and one for Smackdown now? That's a good idea if so.
I don't think this is an official thing there just wasn't a Raw or Smackdown thread for either show made last week until it started. I just created one for this week but if we are going to just have one mega thread for both shows that's cool too.
I was leaning towards just doing one big thread for each show since there's not really much activity on a weekly basis but I haven't pulled the trigger yet....since you already made a new RAW thread maybe I'll wait until next week.
I'm pro one big thread for the shows.
I thought Seth and Murphy were gonna be temp tag team but they're working like a unit. I hope they keep the titles. SP will always be a good tag...
Oh well. SP vs AOP might be a good WM match...
Riddick Moss has WWE Champion written all over him...siick neckbreaker, but I'm not down with him killing my friend Ricochet.
I'm sure Styles and Take have the brains to put together a fun match for WM but I'd much rather see Taker, Black, and Truth squash the OC in a 6 man tag team match. R Truth and Undertaker is one of my dream tag teams...
AJ Styles looks more like an Anderson than MG Karl...
Last edited by Horatio; March 2nd, 2020 at 10:11 PM.
I have no idea what Ricochet did, but no one else in the company should do whatever random thing he did.
That opening segment with Brock and Drew was tits. They've presented Drew as a fearless badass and it's paying off.
These girls did good getting themselves over for Sunday.
Erick Rowan's pet spider is obviously fake, but... what if it's real?
Shayna is kinda scary to watch now that we know she's vampiric...
Great match. Kairi just can't do no wrong.
Garza is a trip.
Gran Metalik should be in there for gimpy Rey.
Andrade definitely benefits from having doofy Garza in there withem. He's half a man as a total rudo.
Last edited by Horatio; March 2nd, 2020 at 11:26 PM.
Wow, that big-ass spider looked fucking dumb.
I want Randy to punt someone.
I want to find out that Randy Orton and Beth Phoenix are together ... IN BED...
Randy is knocking this out of the park.
Amazing promo by randy
They really aren't fucking around with this feud.
Beth took that RKO like a champ
Fantastic showing for McIntyre to start the night. That's how you put a badass over and it showed, once again, Lesnar is willing to play ball and sell like a champ if you give him moments with some gravitas.
Street Profits benefited greatly as a heel got his from a face that the crowd is behind. The proper tag team gets a run with the belts, likely starting off with AOP after this weekend. Hopefully SP can find their footing as they've been meandering since being on Raw.
Ricochet is on the verge of a tremendous redemption story or being thrust into oblivion.
Not a surprise that we got shenanigans for Black and Styles. The stipulation for Sunday and the WWE's booking philosophy suggests Black is getting his win back.
The stuff with the women was hit or miss in terms of heat but I thought everyone accounted for themselves well based on what they had to work with.
I would have done Humberto Carrillo/Andrade tonight to set up for a tag match at the PPV. Those four together are very good and I think they could rise to the occasion with more time and no commercial interruptions.
Orton is at his apex right now. I tried to figure out where he started this slow ascent. I think it was the stuff with Jeff Hardy in July of '18 where he should some viciousness with the earlobe spots. He showed that and then he was surprisingly invigorated promo wise with the next feud with AJ Styles. Orton then played his part well as a foil for Kofi Kingston. Now, he's just totally in the pocket. Tonight played into the story I thought they should when they decided to go this route: Orton was happy to see his friend back but felt he needed to protect Edge from himself and the opposition so he took matters into his own hands. A great villain is going to believe and justify his actions with a minor hint of truth in there. A lot of people in the business say that a motivated Orton is one of the best in the business. This segment showed that's a statement that's hard to refute.
It's like the RAW commentators have never watched RAW before. "I've never seen Lesnar look this vulnerable before!" Did you not watch Samoa Joe choke him out? Did you not watch Strowman powerslam him repeatedly?
Perfect heel promo. He has a reason, like it or not, why he did what he did. You can buy into his madness but still hate at the same time.
I have a feeling this feud will steal the show.
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