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Thread: The Official Monday Night RAW Thread

  1. #1301
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    I have seen multiple fans bring up "This should have been Liv Morgan's spot!" And I ask, based on what? This is something Bliss has been asking for to be part of for a few years (working with Bray in general). It'd be like saying Margot Robie shouldn't have been Harley Quinn because she's already established.

    I can't say Liv Morgan would have sucked but I don't think it would have been as big of a deal or as cool if it wasn't someone like Alexa Bliss. I hope to fuck Orton doesn't team up with someone just because.....It needs to make sense and right now it's not needed.

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    I wouldn’t have gone with Morgan myself. Nikki Cross could have been a good alternatively reprising her psycho Sanity character a bit but Alexa being the bigger name plus it doesn’t that she’s even nicer to look at in her get-up!

    Speaking of Alexa/Nikki, never got a blow-off there but I suppose it’s not vital.

  3. #1303
    World Champion Donald's Avatar
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    Liv Morgan is from NJ so she sucks.

  4. #1304
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    What’s wrong with New Jersey? Never been there but got some nice beaches Googling it lol.

  5. #1305
    World Champion Donald's Avatar
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    I grew up there, so that means I used to suck but no longer do.

  6. #1306
    Main Eventer Sasori's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badger View Post
    I wouldn’t have gone with Morgan myself. Nikki Cross could have been a good alternatively reprising her psycho Sanity character a bit but Alexa being the bigger name plus it doesn’t that she’s even nicer to look at in her get-up!

    Speaking of Alexa/Nikki, never got a blow-off there but I suppose it’s not vital.
    The Alexa/Nikki split should have had a pay off. Nikki improved so much as a character and on the mic during her time teaming with Alexa. That should have been a great jumping off point as a singles wrestler, but Nikki's going nowhere fast. Can this company build some new stars already!

    I didn't know about Alexa wanting to work with Bray, but I dislike them working together for the simple fact that they're WWE's version of the Joker and Harley Quinn. The Joker is the inspiration for the Fiend's mask and Bray even used him as his profile pic on twitter leading up to his return. Alexa's done the Harley Quinn thing off and on for years, so the overall package of the two just feels like a knockoff.

  7. #1307
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    What isn’t ripped off these days lol.

    On another note, been outspoken about Nia Jax in the past but I’m actually going to pay a compliment for a change in that the running gag of slamming Lana through the announce table is funny.

  8. #1308
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Lana getting put through a table every week is the segment we never knew we wanted lol.

    You know what's crazy is I think Lana in a stable with Nia and Shayna would be incredible. She's good on the mic, definitely one of the better in the women's division. You could get the title on her due to having these 2 bad bitches with her. She's not a good wrestler but when has that ever mattered when it comes to certain championships?

  9. #1309
    Sometimes I disagree Mazer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nash Diesel View Post
    Lana getting put through a table every week is the segment we never knew we wanted lol.

    You know what's crazy is I think Lana in a stable with Nia and Shayna would be incredible. She's good on the mic, definitely one of the better in the women's division. You could get the title on her due to having these 2 bad bitches with her. She's not a good wrestler but when has that ever mattered when it comes to certain championships?
    Can it be old-school ravishing, russian Lana?

  10. #1310
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mazer View Post
    Can it be old-school ravishing, russian Lana?
    She can't go back to the accent but she can go back to being serious.

  11. #1311
    Sometimes I disagree Mazer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nash Diesel View Post
    She can't go back to the accent but she can go back to being serious.
    I'm willing to concede the accent, but I believe the "business" outfit should return

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    I want more creative ways for Lana to go through a table. Like have her complain to Adam Pearce about not wanting to go down to the ring because for x weeks now she always get put through a table. Then Adam Pearce puts her through a table.

    And the next week, she can be backstage being interviewed by Charly, and the camera scrolls up, revealing Nia is up by the rafters, waiving as she drops a table thorugh Lana below. Ron Simmons walks by and says "Damn!"


    Honestly, this running bit with Lana going through tables is far better than her "marriage" with Lashley.

  13. #1313
    World Champion Donald's Avatar
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    Can rafters support Nia Jax

  14. #1314
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Some of these angles and segments we see are simply to make Vince and others laugh. I mean, think of all the JR stuff, nothing but bullshit 99% of the time. That's why I bust out laughing when Prichard says they would never waste money on burying people because they have the worst fucking track record. I'm not even talking Dusty and polka dots.

  15. #1315
    Intercontinental Champion Jarrod1983's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badger View Post
    What’s wrong with New Jersey? Never been there but got some nice beaches Googling it lol.
    I dated a girl from NJ. She was bat shit crazy. So was her family. NJ is gross.

  16. #1316
    World Champion Donald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarrod1983 View Post
    I dated a girl from NJ. She was bat shit crazy. So was her family. NJ is gross.
    Ain't that the truth.

  17. #1317
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarrod1983 View Post
    I dated a girl from NJ. She was bat shit crazy. So was her family. NJ is gross.
    Oh wait, does this mean Jersey Shore is really how these people act?

  18. #1318
    Intercontinental Champion Jarrod1983's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badger View Post
    Oh wait, does this mean Jersey Shore is really how these people act?
    Yes. That episode of South Park is dead on as well. I've never argued more in my life than the 2 years with her.

  19. #1319
    Legend Badger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarrod1983 View Post
    Yes. That episode of South Park is dead on as well. I've never argued more in my life than the 2 years with her.
    Well I see how you’re so good at debating now!

  20. #1320
    Intercontinental Champion Jarrod1983's Avatar
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    Probably. That girl shaved a couple years off my life at least.

  21. #1321
    Legend Badger's Avatar
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    I may have just said why are you sandy, beach?

  22. #1322
    Intercontinental Champion Jarrod1983's Avatar
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    Ha, that would have just fired her up. Probably cause her to throw something.

  23. #1323
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarrod1983 View Post
    Ha, that would have just fired her up. Probably cause her to throw something.
    You look like the Big Show, you could’ve ate it laughing.

  24. #1324
    World Champion Donald's Avatar
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    Dana has a chance to win the gag titles. Nice!

    Also glad to see Hardy beat Elias. I thought for sure Elias was gonna win the feud.

  25. #1325
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    Hardy/Elias seems like the new beaten into the ground program for Raw. I imagine they're going to be going back and forth until the Rumble.

    The women's tag title match felt rushed, didn't have much fanfare in terms of promotion, probably emphasized a person not involved in the match more than anyone in the match, and really didn't amount to much. You've got a title match within a three-hour show and it didn't stand out. That's a problem. My overarching problem with the Lana stuff hinges on one question: Am I supposed to feel bad for her?

    The 24-7 segment told me that Drew Gulak is Daniel Bryan if Bryan didn't have things go absolutely right for him in his WWE career lol.

    Not sure what the premise was of the triple threat match. If someone who isn't on the team beat two guys who are on the team, what does that really say about the quality of your team? Why just not have qualifying matches like the week before? At least Styles was entertaining with his work establishing himself as the captain and on commentary.

    It still makes me chuckle how an NXT viewer sees Garza as someone who was spotlighted with a title win and celebrated with his new fiancée. Much different on Raw.

    Funhouse segment was pretty entertaining. I do like how the general warped Mr. Rogers setup can be tweaked based on Wyatt's rival at the time and can be built on past grievances with that person. Alexa looks like she's having a blast playing this character.

    I like how MVP connected some dots and suggested they've done enough to help Raw to earn a tag title opportunity. The back and forth between The Hurt Business and New Day prior to the match was quite good. I felt like I actually saw UUDD charisma from Woods and Kingston during the promo time. The match was entertaining but seemed counterproductive to have the champions take a loss prior to Survivor Series. This seems like a perfectly laid out program for after Survivor Series but they shot their wad prior to Survivor Series, ultimately doing very little good for either group.

    You know stuff is real bad when Tucker gets a jobber entrance and loses to RICOCHET. Seems like that blowoff angle for the briefcase is doing wonders for Tucker. So Retribution needed rehabilitation after several bad weeks and they're starting back at the bottom with Tucker and Ricochet. Seems like good use of time until they're put in their place again.

    The main event match was pretty good and better than the handicap match Miz and Morrison had with Strowman a while back. Seems somewhat interesting when you've got an obvious fall guy in Morrison there but opted to have Miz take the pin. Seems like McIntyre and Wyatt are marking time until Survivor Series passes and they both gun for Orton.

  26. #1326
    Main Eventer Sasori's Avatar
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    Tucker got squashed by Ricochet?! I thought they might give him a slight of push for a few weeks before giving up, but the guy never stood a chance, lol.

    I'm glad they haven't completely dropped the storyline with Alexa and Nikki. I just hope Nikki looks good coming out of it.

    They've really ramped up the Hoss levels of RAW's SS team. I expect the disagreements between them will cost RAW the match.

    Once again, the Hurt Business was one of the few bright spots on this show.

    I still don't get splitting up the IIconics if they were going to immediately stick Peyton in another tag team
    Last edited by Sasori; November 3rd, 2020 at 1:50 AM.

  27. #1327
    Another season... Tyson's Avatar
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    Quick Hits (11/2):

    -Alexa is absolutely killing it as Bray/The Fiend’s partner. Am curious to see where this leads, whether this means potentially challenging for the Raw Women’s title...
    -That three way hoss brawl was all kinds of awesome. I’m on record as a huge Braun Strowman fan, am really digging this character shift. Dear Keith, I realize that you’re way athletic for a giant of a human being, but please never ever again try that dive over the top rope. All three big men can move in the ring as well as talk; for whatever reason the company keeps Braun on a leash, mic-wise, even though Adam is rather engaging on his Instagram account. “They don’t pay me to talk...”
    -Eventually Jordan is going to have to mix it up, he can’t just stand there and look intimidating forever. AJ Styles is money, by the way.
    -Still don’t give a shit about Jax/Baszler as characters or a tag team, they are getting XPac level “go away” heat; this Lana storyline is getting uncomfortable as it is veering dangerously close to bullying territory. Unless the endgame is Lana/??? taking the tag straps off Jax/Baszler, this reads purely as petty childish Vince pulling rank and punishing Lana for what Miro has said about the WWE.
    -Amazing how MVP has succeeded in getting those three (Lashley especially) over with his “Hurt Business” faction. The New Day/Hurt Business promo was awesome; if ultimately doing the job to Benjamin/Alexander means Kingston (WWE title) and Woods (US) get to dabble in the singles game, I’m all for it. Woods is very under-rated.
    -The company is off to a bad start with this Orton championship reign; I was impressed with McIntyre when he had the strap but I really don’t need Orton/McIntyre IV this soon.
    -Miz and Morrison deserve better.
    -Hardy/Elias is boring; Hardy needs to be putting guys over at this stage, Elias works better as a face than a heel and is being wasted in this feud.
    -Retribution, LOL. Wasting what could have been a great storyline and an opportunity for Ali to break through, by hitting the members with shitty gimmicks and beating up jobbers. Remember how hot Ricochet was when he originally debuted? Chalk up another L thanks to Deplorable Vince and his big man fetish; book Ricochet properly, I’ll watch him over Lars 100% of the time.

  28. #1328
    Top Hulkamaniac Bluegunn's Avatar
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    Tucker may as well had stayed on Smackdown. Get ready for the next round of cuts.

  29. #1329
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    If Tucker was going to turn on Otis, they should have moved to them feuding against each other, else they both come out looking like leftover garbage.

  30. #1330
    World Champion Donald's Avatar
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    Did you know the average age of a Hurt Business member is 41.6 years old?

  31. #1331
    Top Hulkamaniac Bluegunn's Avatar
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    I was thinking Otis and Tucker would at least be on the Survivor Series. Must be saving it for the Rumble

  32. #1332
    Sometimes I disagree Mazer's Avatar
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    I actually like the storyline for Jax/Baszler. You should be a little uncomfortable. If they're going to make Lana a face again, its not going to be accomplished with one beating (based on the last several years). You have to feel a little bad.

    I also like that Jax and Shayna are actually heels. Not cool heels or trendy heels. You should actually dislike them.






    Of course, I don't dislike them....so maybe I'm killing my point.

  33. #1333
    World Champion Donald's Avatar
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    Am I the only one that just doesn't like Keith Lee? He's alright in the ring I suppose, but I cringe whenever he's on a microphone.

  34. #1334
    Once upon a time... kdestiny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donald View Post
    Am I the only one that just doesn't like Keith Lee? He's alright in the ring I suppose, but I cringe whenever he's on a microphone.
    I'm not surprised you don't like him.

    To be fair they've treated him like garbage since he's been on the main roster

  35. #1335
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    I worry that Keith Lee will become this generation's Mark Henry, in the sense that he has a look that screams dominance, he will not be used properly for most of his career, he will probably have extended periods of time on the shelf, but he will inevitably be hyped up every year as a threat to win the Rumble.

  36. #1336
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    He was pushed straight into a feud with Orton and got a clean win on PPV over him which they can always go back to later on for a future title match. Lost to Braun after that but he had to cheat and the matches have been fun. He didn’t eat the pin in the triple threat so he’s still pretty well protected. He’s still fine.

  37. #1337
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donald View Post
    Am I the only one that just doesn't like Keith Lee? He's alright in the ring I suppose, but I cringe whenever he's on a microphone.
    He’s not horrible on the mic but perhaps a bit too well-spoken and lacks a bit of intensity.

  38. #1338
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    I want to see Braun Strowman help Smackdown eliminate his RAW teammates, and then have Braun pin each Smackdown member 1 by 1.

  39. #1339
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    Can he put Lana through a table along the way?

  40. #1340
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    Yes, and Nia Jax and Shayna Baszler for good measure.

  41. #1341
    Main Eventer Sasori's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mazer View Post
    I actually like the storyline for Jax/Baszler. You should be a little uncomfortable. If they're going to make Lana a face again, its not going to be accomplished with one beating (based on the last several years). You have to feel a little bad.

    I also like that Jax and Shayna are actually heels. Not cool heels or trendy heels. You should actually dislike them.






    Of course, I don't dislike them....so maybe I'm killing my point.
    What really bothers me is that Shayna and Nia absolutely hated each other when they teamed up, but now get along just fine. I thought this was supposed to be a team of convenience and they'd continue to go at it, but they've been on the same page for a while and there wasn't a proper transition to this stage.

  42. #1342
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    So Ali had this promo on his social media:
    “I want you to imagine something. I want you to imagine being judged because of your name. I want you to imagine being mocked because of how you look. Now, I want you to imagine a man named Mustafa Ali that has given names and masks to members of RETRIBUTION so that they, too, can know how he feels; so that they, too, can be judged because of their names; they, too, can be mocked because of how they look; they, too, can see the world the way he sees it. Imagine that.”

    So, that makes a fair amount of sense and it strikes me as something where he's trying to save this...but it really doesn't excuse how they've been booked.

  43. #1343
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    They've cut out quite a bit of Retribution's segments the last few weeks on Hulu. They didn't even show the stuff from Monday I had to look it up on Youtube.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sasori View Post
    What really bothers me is that Shayna and Nia absolutely hated each other when they teamed up, but now get along just fine. I thought this was supposed to be a team of convenience and they'd continue to go at it, but they've been on the same page for a while and there wasn't a proper transition to this stage.
    They do. Listen to the commentary. They're constantly talking about how there's tension, they're not the best of friends, yada yada.

    What proper transition? They won the titles over 2 months ago and they've slowly started to get on the same page while still not totally trusting the other.

  44. #1344
    Main Eventer Sasori's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nash Diesel View Post
    They've cut out quite a bit of Retribution's segments the last few weeks on Hulu. They didn't even show the stuff from Monday I had to look it up on Youtube.



    They do. Listen to the commentary. They're constantly talking about how there's tension, they're not the best of friends, yada yada.

    What proper transition? They won the titles over 2 months ago and they've slowly started to get on the same page while still not totally trusting the other.
    The thing is, we don't really see any tension between them, and haven't for a while. Remember when Sheamus and Cesaro teamed up? They had issues on a regular basis. Then they had the pub brawl where they gained each other's respect. Haven't seen anything close to that since Shayna and Nia won the belts.

  45. #1345
    World Champion Donald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sasori View Post
    The thing is, we don't really see any tension between them, and haven't for a while. Remember when Sheamus and Cesaro teamed up? They had issues on a regular basis. Then they had the pub brawl where they gained each other's respect. Haven't seen anything close to that since Shayna and Nia won the belts.
    They've had verbal jabs at who should be team captain, that's something.

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    Shayna commented on Nia taking a rose from Garza. But Garza is approaching Al Snow level of jobber status.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 3puppies View Post
    Shayna commented on Nia taking a rose from Garza. But Garza is approaching Al Snow level of jobber status.
    That makes Andrade _______

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sasori View Post
    The thing is, we don't really see any tension between them, and haven't for a while. Remember when Sheamus and Cesaro teamed up? They had issues on a regular basis. Then they had the pub brawl where they gained each other's respect. Haven't seen anything close to that since Shayna and Nia won the belts.
    I mean yeah if you're wanting to see the same identical path the WWE took with Sheamus and Cesaro, sure. Keep in mind, after they formed The Bar they squashed the beef. Nia and Shayna still haven't fully squashed the beef. Everything you're talking about with those 2 guys happened BEFORE they were champions, not after.

    Quote Originally Posted by BGMaverick View Post
    That makes Andrade _______
    Injured.

  49. #1349
    Sometimes I disagree Mazer's Avatar
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    Shayna and Nia were at each other for a little bit, but that it really wasn't built on much. They didn't start out with a Sheamus/Cesaro level beef. There's was the kind of feud that the WWE forgets in a main event tag matches every month. Not that its right, but it ain't exactly glaring.


    They're not being sold as best friends, but they were never Bryan/Miz. Having them not be friends right now, but be able to co-exist ok based on their success, just doesn't seem to stretch the WWE disbelief meter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mazer View Post
    Shayna and Nia were at each other for a little bit, but that it really wasn't built on much. They didn't start out with a Sheamus/Cesaro level beef. There's was the kind of feud that the WWE forgets in a main event tag matches every month. Not that its right, but it ain't exactly glaring.


    They're not being sold as best friends, but they were never Bryan/Miz. Having them not be friends right now, but be able to co-exist ok based on their success, just doesn't seem to stretch the WWE disbelief meter.
    Yeah we didn't get a waste of a Best of 30 between Nia and Shayna and to be honest it wasn't like there was much depth between Cesaro and Sheamus. Fuck I remember HATING having to sit through that shit just for them to be a team. A great team, but still....

    The stuff I read about Nia and Shayna is so nit picky it's not even worth commenting on sometimes. I'm still laughing at people who thought Liv and Ruby should have defeated Bayley and Sasha because those fans are groomed on titles make the man not the man makes the title mantra I grew up with. Once they started putting the IC title on people like Billy Gunn I knew the deal.

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    Just about every tag team that’s held them ended up splitting or leaving by the end of their reign, it’s a cursed title really lol. Sasha/Bartley’s first reign then Sasha left TV for ages. Second reign they split in a blood feud. Iiconics split though for once no storyline animosity (though really who would fans have cheered if they feuded). Kabuki Warriors, Kairi Sane left the company for Japan. Alexa Bliss/Nikki Cross...splitsville.

    All the reasonings are different but the one constant is they always seem to break up
    at the end of their reign. Just kinda funny really. I think if Nia/Shayna follow the same pattern and eventually split up the team for good, Shayna will probably be the face.

    On another note, seeing Shayna on UUDD and she looks so much better without makeup.

  52. #1352
    Sometimes I disagree Mazer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nash Diesel View Post
    Yeah we didn't get a waste of a Best of 30 between Nia and Shayna and to be honest it wasn't like there was much depth between Cesaro and Sheamus. Fuck I remember HATING having to sit through that shit just for them to be a team. A great team, but still....

    The stuff I read about Nia and Shayna is so nit picky it's not even worth commenting on sometimes. I'm still laughing at people who thought Liv and Ruby should have defeated Bayley and Sasha because those fans are groomed on titles make the man not the man makes the title mantra I grew up with. Once they started putting the IC title on people like Billy Gunn I knew the deal.
    I pretty much agree with a lot of that. Although, I did enjoy some of the Sheamus/Cesaro series, but still.


    I generally like Shayna and think she's been effective as a heel. I've come around some on Nia. I was not a fan of most of her work as a singles wrestler. But kinda like her as the powerhouse in a tag team. And her interactions fucking with Shayna and as a bully have been solid to me. I'm as surprised as anyone by that development.


    I can understand why a lot of people don't get excited about ShayJax. Its not as if they've had a compelling feud yet. I don't think either of them are burning down the house with each match, although I like some of they style they wrestle with. So I can see some critiques. Some, but not all. A lot of the critiques are more based around "I don't like Shayna or Nia". Which is fine, but let's call it what it is.

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    I wish Shayna became a pro wrestler a lot earlier.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mazer View Post
    I pretty much agree with a lot of that. Although, I did enjoy some of the Sheamus/Cesaro series, but still.


    I generally like Shayna and think she's been effective as a heel. I've come around some on Nia. I was not a fan of most of her work as a singles wrestler. But kinda like her as the powerhouse in a tag team. And her interactions fucking with Shayna and as a bully have been solid to me. I'm as surprised as anyone by that development.


    I can understand why a lot of people don't get excited about ShayJax. Its not as if they've had a compelling feud yet. I don't think either of them are burning down the house with each match, although I like some of they style they wrestle with. So I can see some critiques. Some, but not all. A lot of the critiques are more based around "I don't like Shayna or Nia". Which is fine, but let's call it what it is.
    I agree. Most of it comes down to people not being a fan of Nia, then a little bit of negativity toward Shayna. I'm hoping there is a real payoff with the whole Lana going through a table routine. Lana fucking sucks as a wrestler and even more as a babyface because she doesn't get that wrestling is a work. But with that said I wouldn't mind 1 of 2 things: She either joins them as their mouthpiece and kind of goes back to the Russian Lana. Or she finds a decent partner and she gets her revenge by putting Nia through a table while winning the tag belts.

    A HUGE issue is that the tag-team titles for the women have barely meant shit. The "feuds" are barely anything and I get the WWE are not a tag-team promotion but it wouldn't hurt to give us substance a few notches above the Divas title feuds of yesteryear where it was simply "Melina won a battle royal and will challenge Mickie James in a week at Summerslam" lol.

  55. #1355
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badger View Post
    Just about every tag team that’s held them ended up splitting or leaving by the end of their reign, it’s a cursed title really lol. Sasha/Bartley’s first reign then Sasha left TV for ages. Second reign they split in a blood feud. Iiconics split though for once no storyline animosity (though really who would fans have cheered if they feuded). Kabuki Warriors, Kairi Sane left the company for Japan. Alexa Bliss/Nikki Cross...splitsville.

    All the reasonings are different but the one constant is they always seem to break up
    at the end of their reign. Just kinda funny really. I think if Nia/Shayna follow the same pattern and eventually split up the team for good, Shayna will probably be the face.

    On another note, seeing Shayna on UUDD and she looks so much better without makeup.
    That's a good point. The only team that stayed together long after their reign ended was the IIconics. The women's tag division is mostly full of teams put together just to justify its existence.

  56. #1356
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    Quote Originally Posted by BGMaverick View Post
    So Ali had this promo on his social media:
    “I want you to imagine something. I want you to imagine being judged because of your name. I want you to imagine being mocked because of how you look. Now, I want you to imagine a man named Mustafa Ali that has given names and masks to members of RETRIBUTION so that they, too, can know how he feels; so that they, too, can be judged because of their names; they, too, can be mocked because of how they look; they, too, can see the world the way he sees it. Imagine that.”

    So, that makes a fair amount of sense and it strikes me as something where he's trying to save this...but it really doesn't excuse how they've been booked.
    Random thought coming through. I haven't watched any Raw in a while, so if this doesn't work with anything they've done, I apologize. But I think it would be aces if they incorporate both Ali and Miz with the briefcase in with Orton being champion. Orton was the one that put out Ali when Ali was supposed to be in the Elimination Chamber. By all accounts, Kofi's spot was supposed to go to Ali. So, Ali started Retribution (among other reasons). Now that Orton is WWE champion, it would make perfect sense for Ali to see this as the perfect chance at revenge. He makes a deal with Miz, who now has the briefcase. After a hard fought title match on Raw, Ali and Retribution come out. They attack Orton. He fends them off rather easily. But he doesn't see Ali, who nutshots him. They pile on. As they're doing that, Miz's music hits, he comes out, cashes in the briefcase, pins Orton, 1-2-3, Miz is NEW WWE CHAMPION. So you have a story that both times Miz won his title, it was against Orton and because it was after he's already weakened.

    Now, of course, Orton murders Ali in subsequent weeks, in an effort to get to a stalling chickenshit Miz. But it would be a great set of stories and matches that could easily take up a good month or 6 weeks of shows. I know heel vs heel isn't always the best, but with Miz's USA show coming back with new episodes, it makes perfect sense to do this right now to get extra publicity.

  57. #1357
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    That would be a great call back and Ali could reference that as being the turning point to become the Hacker and then from Retribution. This group needs to make a substantial impact and helping Miz cash in would accomplish that.

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    That would ultimately be the only way you can save this shit angle because it is drowning.

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    I think Ali is doing great work trying to save it. He's Dame Lilliard against the Lakers

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    I wonder if John Morrison is happy to come back to WWE just to be Alex Riley 2.0.

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    Really vince f you enough of this petty bs with Lana it’s pathetic

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    big ol' meathorse mth's Avatar
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    Cracks my up how people think Lana's getting punished for Miro going to AEW or whatever. Correlation is not causation. If anything, she seems to be getting a push to me. She's getting TV time every week with an on-going angle that seems to be turning her face (charcter development!), got a championship match in the midst of it, and is probably going to cinch the win for her team at SS based on how this angle is playing out with her being regarded as the weak link.

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    The last quarter of Raw was the only saving grace from labeling this God-awful.

    Orton was pretty strong during his opening promo. Kingston looked somewhat silly getting worked right away with Orton.

    Whoever wrote the segment with Lana, Dana, and Mandy backstage, then the Team Raw meeting needs to be suspended. Guess it just took some addition by subtraction to get Riddle some momentum. Two w
    ins in one night? Wow.

    Guess they won't take there time with Hurt Business versus New Day after the upset win. Not like they have stuff waiting in the background that can be used after Survivor Series. Lashley and O'Neil was sloppy to heavens lol. Lashley's finisher isn't ideal for a guy as broad as O'Neil.

    Interesting that Mercy was lurking while McIntyre and Sheamus were bickering backstage.

    I still don't really buy why I should be interested in Lana as a babyface. I will give them credit for attempting to do more with a push than the times they've tried with someone like Dana. She's like the Raw version of Sullivan: lots of emphasis but there's not a lot there that's compelling to me.

    Tucker got a W before Otis with the breakup. Yikes.

    Al
    i/Ricochet harkened back to when Ali/Murphy were trying to show out on 205 Live. Good for them to get some time to work and overdeliver. Ali's promo earlier in the show was solid too. Might be well beyond late, but Retribution had a solid night.

    Seems like WWE actually has come close to booking McIntyre like a proper top babyface better than any attempt they've had in who knows how long. The timing of the commercials were frustrating but the main event was fun. WWE has almost outright made it a trend now that a championship changes prior to Survivor Series to change a major match. That would certainly happen next week with the WWE championship next week but I can't see them burning a truly money match with no purpose and no build.

  64. #1364
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    Quote Originally Posted by BGMaverick View Post
    Whoever wrote the segment with Lana, Dana, and Mandy backstage, then the Team Raw meeting needs to be suspended. Guess it just took some addition by subtraction to get Riddle some momentum. Two wins in one night? Wow.

    Guess they won't take there time with Hurt Business versus New Day after the upset win. Not like they have stuff waiting in the background that can be used after Survivor Series. Lashley and O'Neil was sloppy to heavens lol. Lashley's finisher isn't ideal for a guy as broad as O'Neil.

    I still don't really buy why I should be interested in Lana as a babyface. I will give them credit for attempting to do more with a push than the times they've tried with someone like Dana. She's like the Raw version of Sullivan: lots of emphasis but there's not a lot there that's compelling to me.

    Al
    i/Ricochet harkened back to when Ali/Murphy were trying to show out on 205 Live. Good for them to get some time to work and overdeliver. Ali's promo earlier in the show was solid too. Might be well beyond late, but Retribution had a solid night.
    I love it when they tell us not to care about someone like Riddle by booking him so badly for months. Then, all of a sudden he gets a super push in one night and I don't know how to feel about because I had given up on the guy.

    Titus looked green as fuck in that match. Like he'd never wrestled a day in his life. Never, ever let him in a ring again.

    If mth is right and Lana wins the match for her team, that's all well and good, but where do they go from there? She's been pushed multiple times before and it hasn't worked out. Why would this be any different?

    Was that the first time Ali's used the Koji Clutch? A submission finisher fits his character much better than a move from the top turnbuckle. Kind of like when Neville turned heel and started using the Rings of Saturn.

  65. #1365
    big ol' meathorse mth's Avatar
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    Ali's used the Koji clutch on Main Event if that counts. He and Ricochet had a banger on there awhile back where he won with it, as well.

  66. #1366
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    Quote Originally Posted by mth View Post
    Ali's used the Koji clutch on Main Event if that counts. He and Ricochet had a banger on there awhile back where he won with it, as well.
    Using "you're going to be a main eventer" as a selling point to prospective signees is going to have a very different connotation going forward.

  67. #1367
    Another season... Tyson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sasori View Post
    Titus looked green as fuck in that match. Like he'd never wrestled a day in his life. Never, ever let him in a ring again.
    In Titus’ defense, when was the last time he had a singles match? Also, Lashley isn’t a ring technician by any stretch of the imagination, he is very dependent on opponents smaller than he is capable of bumping their asses off for him. I know the company has been trying so hard to put over The Hurt Lock as legit, but maybe they should have booked a different submission move for that match.

    Re: Riddle being added. Don’t really care, he’ll probably be the first dude from the RAW team that gets eliminated.

    Going to echo my earlier statement about the Lana situation: this is getting uncomfortable, borderline bullying. For someone (Nia) who has done so much work with anti-bullying campaigns, this should be a little awkward for her. Unless the payoff is Lana putting Nia through the announce table or better yet taking the tag titles from Jax/Baszler, I’m not sure what a good ending entails. And why the fuck is Baszler so subservient to Jax? I thought Shayna was supposed to be a badass but there’s been absolutely no attempt to establish herself as the leader of that duo.

    AJ is fucking money. Big man Jordan needs to learn some social distancing, he was all up on Styles during that segment; I still think that relationship has to be explained. Jordan must insert himself physically sooner rather than later; last night was the perfect opportunity (when Styles was getting bumped around), but nothing happened.

    So when Orton retains Monday, is that it? Or are we headed towards an overdrawn and wholly unnecessary rubber match (#5)?

    Feels a little premature for Hurt Business/New Day, no?

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    Does vince get a kick seeing Lana get driven though a table? Pathetic

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    This is twice now that Miz has lost to Mr. Rogers Wyatt. Sucks to be him, lol.

  70. #1370
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    Wwe still do the best promos like this with drew and randy

  71. #1371
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    What's the point of doing an injury angle to remove Mandy and Dana from the SS team at the last minute? Why not do an angle in the match instead? I'm trying to find out if Mandy's injury is real or not.

  72. #1372
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    I guess the random and unnecessary pairing of Peyton and Lacey actually has newfound value as Mandy is hurt (reportedly last week) and they wrote Dana off in the interim with an attack. Another reason I'm confused as to why I'm supposed to care about Lana going through tables: her teammates in this match didn't seem to care about her going through the table.

    Tag title match was quite good. Plenty of moments where it seemed like THB was going to get the big win. Alexander and Benjamin mesh really well as a tag team. Kingston in manpris is certainly a choice but I'm guess he'll make them work. This breakup with E and the rest of New Day has allowed Woods to get more time in the ring. You definitely like to see that. He looks rejuvenated and looks better than ever since that Achilles injury. I would have liked this as a feud after Survivor Series but alas we got it now. Who am I kidding, we're going to get it again AFTER Survivor Series anyway. Bring on New Day versus Street Profits. Should be fun.

    Retribution getting a win against Team Raw is a choice. Obviously you'd expect a fully-functioning team to have an advantage over a disorganized one but why should I care about Team Raw this weekend?

    Nice tweak to Alexa's theme, but I'm kind of confused on if we're supposed to view Wyatt/Fiend/Alexa as tweeners, faces, or heels? Cool spot and by my Alexa and Morrison on the outside. Looked a little nasty but seems like everyone was okay.

    This will be shocking, but I actually care more about Lars Sullivan promos than Angel Garza promos. Both are dumb but they're nothing I'm getting from Garza that has me excited to see him.

    All of the stuff with the main event picture really confused me. The fact that McIntyre won makes it that more perplexing as to the timing of having him lose the title originally or having him lose it altogether in the first place. I'm more inclined to raise more skepticism towards the first scenario. Orton was a hot heel so he needed to win the title but it happened way too late and he ultimately held it less than a month. Why? I think you had a better chance for storytelling if he won at Summerslam and worked off his momentum and power for a few months. This also would have allowed McIntyre to work back up and be pissed off until we got a rematch on this night. At least the camera caught Orton giving McIntyre a good game after the bell rang to end the match.

    It feels like one step forward, one back with the fallout. You did spend Friday building the threat of McIntyre and Reigns squaring off but that feels like it should have more meat behind it as they're two of the best booked characters in the company. It should be a bigger deal than a one-off for now. Orton's role going forward is going to be interesting to see too because it seems like Sheamus is clearly being subtly positioned to be a foil for McIntyre. Does Orton fade away from the title picture and tangle with The Fiend?
    Last edited by BGMaverick; November 17th, 2020 at 1:40 AM.

  73. #1373
    Another season... Tyson's Avatar
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    I, for one, am a little bummed that Orton dropped the title this quickly; he’s been white hot since he turned on Edge, was looking forward to a lengthy heel run from him (maybe loses it at the Rumble).

    Like BG said above, this feels like the company is wasting what could be a huge Mania match (Drew wins the Rumble and challenges Roman) just for shits and giggles. So far as the next challengers, I guess we’re looking at Sheamus/The Miz unless one of Strowman/Styles suddenly become interested in it. Had Orton retained, the field was a little more wide open (Kofi/Keith/AJ).

    Is Orton injured or something? Is that maybe why he suddenly dropped it on TV?

    When was the last time one of the two big titles changed hands on TV?
    Last edited by Tyson; November 17th, 2020 at 4:59 AM.

  74. #1374
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    hurt business vs new day was really fucking good

    the sheamus/drew shit was kind of lame. confirmed his title win, for me

  75. #1375
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyson View Post

    When was the last time one of the two big titles changed hands on TV?
    I think I read it's been since 2015 that the WWE title has changed hands on TV. I know Smackdown had their title change a few (maybe 2-3) years back with Mahal and Styles.

  76. #1376
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    Quote Originally Posted by BGMaverick View Post
    I think I read it's been since 2015 that the WWE title has changed hands on TV. I know Smackdown had their title change a few (maybe 2-3) years back with Mahal and Styles.
    I believe it was Roman beating Sheamus with Vince as the ref? something like that

    edit: on RAW that is.

    Smackdown was Bryan beating Styles.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew View Post
    hurt business vs new day was really fucking good

    the sheamus/drew shit was kind of lame. confirmed his title win, for me
    Drew's Entrance was a give away as well. You don't bring out a sword and then lose the match, lol.

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    Raw was very good. For me there's nothing more interesting in wrestling today than The Fiend. Everything involved with that charcter included i.e. Bliss, normal Bray, the puppets, I'm digging it all and have since he debuted.

    Very happy for Drew regaining the title. I get the reservation on Roman v. Drew but the fact we've seen them wrestle several times already in the past doesn't make me sour about what we're getting this Sunday. I am very very curious how this match ends. If it were me, I'd make this the co-main event under the Raw v. SD men's match and you end it after 15-20 minutes as a no contest.

    Back in the old day that's how they'd book a lot of NWA v. WWWF champion matches. Usually would go the distance or a double countout. That way you can keep the current incarnations of these 2 fresh for a bigger match down the road.

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    Here's a thought. If the RAW SS team can't get along, why not replace them with Retribution who just beat them? Obviously the story is that team RAW will pull out the win on Sunday despite being dysfuntional, but if I was running RAW, I'd recruit people who are all on the same page.

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    I unfortunately missed Survivor Series last night. I turned on the tv a few minutes ago and saw Riddle talking with MVP about some sort of business deal. When MVP said he wasn't his friend or something, Riddle said "aw". It made me chuckle. And I give props to MVP for not busitn out laughing at it. That is the type of little things that I like to see. I"m actually watching the Lashley/Keith Lee match to see how it goes. Two big man matches that aren't plodding dinosaurs can get me to stay tuned.

    I've said before, the Thunderdome concept in the pandemic looks pretty nice with the laser lights and the smaller screens for the audience. Since I've recently seen the Star Trek Voyager episode that had the Rock in it and the concept of broadcasting a fight to a bunch of places, I dare say it's a concept they could run with for a long time.

    Also, my first time seeing Fiend induced Alexa and I'm loving crazy Alexa way too much.
    Last edited by Supernovametalstar; November 23rd, 2020 at 11:29 PM.

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    Riddle going "aw" was the best, lol.

    That Alexa v Nikki match came together really well. I'm not the biggest Bliss fan, but she's putting all the pieces together and nailing this character. I only hope Nikki goes somewhere after this feud. Would love to see them pull the trigger and get her into the title picture. Asuka just seems like she's keeping the belt warm since they've got nothing for her to do.

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    Pearce had a bruise nowhere near Strowman hit him, haha. Good attention to detail there lol.

    Shocking absolutely no one, they ran back New Day and Hurt Business. What a clunky-ass finish originally. So it's a ruled a double countout and the ref is absolutely insistent on raising Alexander and Benjamin's hands? What? When it was actually back and forth and there wasn't stupidity involved, the two teams worked together well. We still got New Day retaining so that felt like time filler.

    The 50/50 booking hit Sheamus and Riddle. Oh well. The match was entertaining, at least. I like those two squaring off because they're not afraid to beat the crap out of each other. Good finish, where Sheamus and Riddle still look fine after the result. Sheamus not being in the mix is a little surprising so I'm curious to see how far they want to keep things going with Sheamus and McIntyre being friends.

    It certainly looks like WWE is wanting you to believe that Lana is winning a championship soon. I guess it's up in the air if it's going to be the tag titles or the women's title. The fact the finish for the singles match was the WWE special (a DQ) and Lana/Asuka beat the tag champs suggests either path is still open. Seems more likely that the tag belts would be the route to go with but I guess we'll see.

    Fun to see they went with Lashley/Lee for a qualifying match. I wouldn't be opposed to seeing these two go at it some more. The post spot on the outside did not come off as clean at all. It actually looked downright scary. Lashley hoisting Lee up for the vertical suplex was definitely a sight to see. Goodness. Lee is way too big for the Hurt Lock but it was a good spot to see him power out of most of it. Stupid finish, sadly. "Protecting his investment" was the motivation but it's not like Lashley was in serious danger of losing at that given moment. They'll need a hell of an explanation for that.

    Nikki was good in her promo prior to the match with Alexa. Continuing to like what Alexa provides with the new aesthetic. Adding those nonsensical smiles after getting beat up (like Funhouse Bray) is a good touch. Alexa has been a character that is prone to using mind games but it's just on an entirely different level now. She's just really owning the role and making the most of it. Good for her. RIP, Friendship Frog.

    It's a shame Orton/Styles really wasn't a lot to write home about in terms of the quality. It wasn't bad but it probably won't be memorable. The winner makes sense, all things considered. Styles has been written as someone who has more of an emphasis compared to others. It hasn't really amounted to much in terms of wins outside of this match but it feels like he's going to be the one who ultimately going to win the triple threat and be the foil for McIntyre (maybe due to The Hurt Business getting in the way of Lee and Riddle). That should be a good get-right situation for McIntyre after Survivor Series. I guess Strowman is a wild card in all of this but I hope they don't go with him at the moment because I'd much rather see Styles/McIntyre.

    As for Orton, it looks like he's on the brink of losing all the momentum he's built up over the last year as The Fiend is extremely hit or miss for the opposition. It felt kind of sloppy or just an overall odd presentation to have it where Orton came off as literally being the only person involved in the match (outside of commentary) to be aware of his presence. Going to be wildly interesting to see how they portray this because The Fiend (as well as Wyatt and Alexa) come off as heels or tweeners based on the whims of a given segment, and Orton is a heel that's being tormented.

    Riddle going "aw" when MVP said he wasn't his bro was easily one of the better moments of the night.
    Last edited by BGMaverick; November 24th, 2020 at 2:10 AM.

  83. #1383
    big ol' meathorse mth's Avatar
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    Ok, that Friendship Frog stuff was pretty great.

  84. #1384
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    Quote Originally Posted by BGMaverick View Post
    ...Fun to see they went with Lashley/Lee for a qualifying match. I wouldn't be opposed to seeing these two go at it some more. The post spot on the outside did not come off as clean at all. It actually looked downright scary. Lashley hoisting Lee up for the vertical suplex was definitely a sight to see. Goodness. Lee is way too big for the Hurt Lock but it was a good spot to see him power out of most of it. Stupid finish, sadly. "Protecting his investment" was the motivation but it's not like Lashley was in serious danger of losing at that given moment. They'll need a hell of an explanation for that.

    Nikki was good in her promo prior to the match with Alexa. Continuing to like what Alexa provides with the new aesthetic. Adding those nonsensical smiles after getting beat up (like Funhouse Bray) is a good touch. Alexa has been a character that is prone to using mind games but it's just on an entirely different level now. She's just really owning the role and making the most of it. Good for her. RIP, Friendship Frog. .

    I joined RAW last night in progress, just in time to see Lee vs. Lashley. It was clear they weren't going to have a clean finish as both guys have been protected, especially of late, but they still delivered a fresh matchup, and something I want to see more of. The "protecting his investment" by MVP seemed thin, but they should have someone like Shelton or Cedric, or maybe better Charley, question MVP about it next week, and allow MVP to expand on it - point out that Bobby was split open from "that fool Keith Lee", and they've got other business to take care of. Just don't allow Lashley to be in front of a mic. The Hurt Business should come down to the ring as if they are supporting Riddle next week, and take Lee out during the triple threat - get him counted out or something - and then AJ's tall pal distracts or something, allowing AJ Styles to move on to the championship shot against Drew.

    I thought Drew should have had a squash match against someone - maybe Morrison - this week, especially after his prominent loss at the PPV.

    Alexa is all-in with this character development, and she is showing her acting talents are as good as anyone on the woman's roster maybe ever.

    Not sure what Strowman is doing, but he needs to be doing something important soon.

  85. #1385
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    Forgot to mention it last night. Hey, Retribution...where you at?

  86. #1386
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    Quote Originally Posted by BGMaverick View Post
    Forgot to mention it last night. Hey, Retribution...where you at?
    Sums it up really. They’re forgettable so we in turn forget them.

    They needed a strong heel figurehead at least and I don’t think Ali’s that guy. They should’ve kept him face as he had mileage left there I think.

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    They should have built retribution up and had them face raw guys at survivor series.

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    Riddle, braun, aj, Sheamus, and keithly vs ali, lockjaw, smiley, and the other two.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BGMaverick View Post
    It certainly looks like WWE is wanting you to believe that Lana is winning a championship soon. I guess it's up in the air if it's going to be the tag titles or the women's title. The fact the finish for the singles match was the WWE special (a DQ) and Lana/Asuka beat the tag champs suggests either path is still open. Seems more likely that the tag belts would be the route to go with but I guess we'll see.
    My god, she is isn't she? That's how she completes her revenge on Nia, by taking the tag titles

    Quote Originally Posted by Donald View Post
    They should have built retribution up and had them face raw guys at survivor series.
    When the members were revealed, I fully expected them to build to a big match at SS. That was the logical place to challenge RAW and Smackdown and prove they were superior. Jump ahead and Retribution wasn't even on the card.

    Now that I think of it, since Retribution beat Team RAW right before SS, shouldn't they be included in the matches to determine the #1 Contender?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sasori View Post
    My god, she is isn't she? That's how she completes her revenge on Nia, by taking the tag titles
    I'm going to blow your mind. Two words: Tables Match.

  91. #1391
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sasori View Post



    When the members were revealed, I fully expected them to build to a big match at SS. That was the logical place to challenge RAW and Smackdown and prove they were superior. Jump ahead and Retribution wasn't even on the card.

    Now that I think of it, since Retribution beat Team RAW right before SS, shouldn't they be included in the matches to determine the #1 Contender?
    Also since the Hurt Business beat Retribution before that who beat the Raw team, then the rest of the Hurt business along with Lashley should be included in the conversation!

  92. #1392
    big ol' meathorse mth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BGMaverick View Post
    I'm going to blow your mind. Two words: Tables Match.
    Yep. That's gotta be 100% what's going down.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BGMaverick View Post
    I'm going to blow your mind. Two words: Tables Match.
    With TLC just around the corner, I can believe it. But that begs the question: who will step up and be Lana's partner?

    Quote Originally Posted by Badger View Post
    Also since the Hurt Business beat Retribution before that who beat the Raw team, then the rest of the Hurt business along with Lashley should be included in the conversation!
    Since Shelton and Cedric got their tag title match and lost and Lashley got his #1 Contender match and lost, I consider "business" concluded. Ali still needs his shot.

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