Super ShowDown - February 27, 2020

[Eddie Brock]

The next pay-per-view on the WWE schedule is the Super ShowDown event set to take place on Thursday, February 27, 2020 at International Arena at The Boulevard in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia. This is the latest event in the deal between Saudi Arabia and WWE.



We're just over three weeks away from showtime, and only one match is official for the show:

• John Morrison & The Miz vs. New Day (SmackDown Tag Team Championship)

Miz and Morrison won a Fatal 4-Way on SmackDown this past week to earn this title shot. They had previously earned singles victories in separate matches.

Mike Johnson of PWInsider.com is reporting that WWE Hall of Famer Sting is expected to be a major part of the upcoming Saudi Arabia event in February with the possibility that he may return to wrestle for one more match at that event. For those wondering if it would be against The Undertaker - a dream match for not only fans, but Sting himself, the current pitch doesn't seem to suggest it would be a program between those two.

[Donald]

Blood money, won't be watching.


Maybe.

[Nash Diesel]

If Joe can't compete, have Sting team up with KO and the Viking Raiders v. Seth, Murphy, and AOP. Sting v. Undertaker would be awesome so hopefully we get that match.

[Fanny Batter]

Would Sting vs. Undertaker still appeal to people for Wrestlemania? Like this show is apathetic nonsense for barely interested sheiks, so whatever he does Sting might do here will be similar to Shawn's return match, but a smoke and mirrors build towards Sting vs. Undertaker at the big one? Or have we got to the stage where these hypothetical dream matches can take place in a cannon in Saudi Arabia, and Wrestlemania is back to what it used to be with the regular roster getting the stage?

[Nash Diesel]

Would Sting vs. Undertaker still appeal to people for Wrestlemania? Like this show is apathetic nonsense for barely interested sheiks, so whatever he does Sting might do here will be similar to Shawn's return match, but a smoke and mirrors build towards Sting vs. Undertaker at the big one? Or have we got to the stage where these hypothetical dream matches can take place in a cannon in Saudi Arabia, and Wrestlemania is back to what it used to be with the regular roster getting the stage?

I would say yes to all 4 of your questions. The WWE have basically told us now after 4-5 Saudi shows that we as fans should expect big things. We've seen World title changes, dream matches, matches with current stars that could headline any ppv including Mania. The only real issue I have with these shows are the crowds can sometimes be a little too quiet. But it also took me some time to get used to Japanese crowds.

Sting v. Undertaker at WrestleMania at this stage in their careers....I think it could happen because there always seems to be 3-4 matches featuring stars of yesteryear and if we're going that far back with the nostalgia, I would have it be the only match that features 2 "part time" wrestlers. Kind of like last year the only match we had like this would have been Batista v. Triple H. This year we'll probably get Edge v. Orton, that's a little different since Orton is pretty active. So yeah I think they could find a place for it but Mania reallly needs to get back to the days when they didn't need to have matches like this. I don't remember the nostalgia match at WrestleMania 5. Or 22.

[Romford Pele]

Surely the time has passed to do Sting v Taker. Both guys are what 55? This should have happened at WM31 instead of the inevitable job to HHH that nobody cared about.

[Nash Diesel]

Surely the time has passed to do Sting v Taker. Both guys are what 55? This should have happened at WM31 instead of the inevitable job to HHH that nobody cared about.

That's why I would rather see it at a ppv that wasn't WrestleMania but I wouldn't be negative to it. If they don't try to do a bunch of high spots I think it'd be fine. Take out the dives you still have a match they can do 98% of their move set and not have it look bad.

[mth]

I probably wont' be watching. Not because of moral reasons but because these shows always suck.

[Donald]

I'll watch because while the majority of the show falls flat, there are some decent moments worth checking out, such as Mansoor wrestling.

[Nash Diesel]

These are the 4 matches announced so far.

Fiend v. Goldberg Universal Championship
Lesnar v. Ricochet WWE Championship
New Day v. Miz and Morrison SD Tag-Team Championship
Roman Reigns v. Corbin Steel Cage

[Bagel]

Reigns-Corbin XIX

[Donald]

Looking forward to this.

[Donald]

The best part, @Nash Diesel, you actually posted in the original Super Showdown February 27th thread.

Can't fault you for this, I barely remember what I did an hour ago.

[Nash Diesel]

The best part, @Nash Diesel, you actually posted in the original Super Showdown February 27th thread.

Can't fault you for this, I barely remember what I did an hour ago.

Oh yeah I feel dumb right now lol. I must have just completely glossed over the other thread that I posted in a week ago today lol.
@mth can you delete this thread? Even if mine is a lot cooler than Brock's

[Nash Diesel]

What are everyone's thoughts on Fiend v. Goldberg? I've already told my sons, if Goldberg wins WWE is banned. I'm not even going to allow DVD viewings, all that shit is getting torched.

[Donald]

I'd actually like a Goldberg win since the Fiend has run its course for me. However, I don't see a Goldberg win coming. I think the Fiend will lose his title at WrestleMania.

[mth]

I wish i could be optimistic about any of this show.

I assume we'll get The Fiend kicking out of half a dozen spears and maybe a Jackhammer if Big Bill's got it in him to try that, and then 'Berg goes down to the Mandible Claw. It'll probably suck and wouldn't be my first choice for a Goldberg match.

I've already commented on Ricochet going against Brock. A bunch of German suplexes, maybe a hope spot where he counters the F-% into a whirly DDT, but eventually and F-5 and a win for Brock. Might have a couple minutes of fun in there but mostly same old shit from Lesnar and zero chance of Ricochet winning so not much reason to invest in it.

Tag title match could be pretty good but I don't really care about it.

Reigns vs. Corbin...not sure I really need to even xplain there.

These shows have a history of sucking and I don't see that changing here. I'm generally a pretty positive wrestling fan but I'm probably not going to bother with this show.

[Nash Diesel]

I'm just curious that if Goldberg is in fact losing, how many bags of money are they unloading as we speak? It is just so random.

[BGMaverick]

Under the presumption that Goldberg is losing, the hook for the match is nostalgia and then the potential for a stark contrast of the opponent not putting up with The Fiend's shit and just being pissed. Bryan was close but it was more annoyance as it felt like The Fiend was just pestering Bryan.

I'm guessing Miz and Morrison win the belts.

Ricochet and Lesnar could be fun but my expectations are rather low right now.

[Nash Diesel]

Goldberg losing to The Fiend will probably set up Roman v. Fiend. Goldberg's spear just wasn't enough so they need to get the younger guy in there to land a top notch spear.

And why....WHYYYY is this Reigns-Corbin feud still going? The WWE loves to drag out Corbin feuds to torture their own audience. Ziggler, Ambrose, Shorty G, they just kept going....and going....well beyond the 1 or 2 matches they deserved.

Who is sitting around just loving this rivalry and if you personally know them, beat the living shit out of them please.

[Sasori]

I think they're just killing/wasting time with Roman/Corbin until we get closer to 'Mania and Roman's opponent is revealed. This whole feud has been filler.

[Spudz Mackenzie]

Ricochet/Lesnar is going sub-10 minutes. Ricochet's going to flip out of a German Suplex and land on his feet. He's going to daze Lesnar with some flying, flippy-dippy kick, he's going to counter the F-5 with some kind of wild ass DDT or a head-scissor. And then he's going to get planted in the mat like a tent stake with the F-5. Maybe they'll "put him over" and have him pass out in the Kimura Lock, instead of being pinned.

Reigns/Corbin are the perfect 3/5 match rating pair. They'll continue to have decent matches until the cows come home, the cows are in the barn, the cows are milked, and the farm shuts down. WWE cage matches are lame. No blood, no real stakes. Its a filler match.

Goldberg/Fiend is going to be an unbelievable train wreck. But it'll be fun. Goldberg is in to do a job and put The Fiend over. And he'll do just that. Hopefully without almost dying this time.

New Day/Miz and Morrison is the easy match of the night candidate, so far. As much as I like Miz/Morrison as a team, I'd rather see Morrison on his own and hovering around a World Title run. He's good enough.

Really, this show doesn't look too bad on paper. But its always some combination of jet lag, a massive media circus the day of, and probably a fear of being decapitated by an angry dictator if you don't have a good enough match, that causes these shows to falter. They're giant house shows, with some EWR-style dream matches on them. So adjust your expectations accordingly.

Also, I'm hoping we do get Sting/Undertaker on this show. That really would be the most intriguing possible match they can still book right now.

[mth]

Oh gawd I really hope they don't do Taker/Sting at this...

[Murphy]

Goldberg to pick up the win, leading to a Spear vs Spear match at 'Mania with Roman.

[3puppies]

I had a thought that Fiend would retain due to a DQ from outside interference - but then I realized that DB doesn't make the trip to Saudi Arabia.

So then I thought maybe they will dust off Rowan and whatever creepy thing is in his cage, but given that the Fiend uses the red light nonsense, they won't be able to show the blood splatter on Goldberg.
So that won't work either.

So if Sting is rumoured to be around, maybe he causes the interference. Or Taker causes the interference, leading to a staring contest with him and Goldberg, to set up their Mania appearance.

[Nash Diesel]

I had a thought that Fiend would retain due to a DQ from outside interference - but then I realized that DB doesn't make the trip to Saudi Arabia.

So then I thought maybe they will dust off Rowan and whatever creepy thing is in his cage, but given that the Fiend uses the red light nonsense, they won't be able to show the blood splatter on Goldberg.
So that won't work either.

So if Sting is rumoured to be around, maybe he causes the interference. Or Taker causes the interference, leading to a staring contest with him and Goldberg, to set up their Mania appearance.

I'm curious if they're going to do the red light since they didn't for his last 2 matches (albeit one was him as himself).

Yeah if Goldy isn't winning then he's definitely not losing clean to The Fiend. Losing clean to guys like Brock and Undertaker is one thing for a guy like Goldberg who still wants it to be the summer of '98. Losing CLEAN to the youth? Eh, maybe.

[PurePlayer]

Goldberg has to be getting a shit ton of money here to lose to Bray. If he wins then I don't know what to think. Maybe they want Goldberg vs Roman? Spear vs Spear. I could see Vince doing that. But if he wanted to do that then continue the Bryan story and have the roman goldberg match as a regular singles match. Either way, I think Bray wins with maybe someone costing Goldberg the match to lead to their Mania match or something? Would goldberg agree to having someone kick out of all his finishers? lol doesn't seem like him

[Fanny Batter]

That would be late WCW era level denseness, promoting a match around both protagonists using the Spear when Edge will win with one earlier in the night.

[BGMaverick]

It feels very linear if Goldberg loses in Saudi but there's a variety of ways they can go if he somehow wins. Although he's the champion, I don't get the sense that The Fiend is going to be any weaker if he actually loses the belt. He'll just go on to tormenting someone else. There was a slight tease of Reigns jabbing Goldberg via social media and Goldberg responding a while back. Reigns and Goldberg could be something but I'm not sure if you're able to get a moment out of that where Reigns is cheered. As for The Fiend, Cena becomes a very interesting target. That is another person who has wronged The Fiend in the past. The issue with that is that you probably have a weird audience alignment over the build towards Mania.

[Gangers]

The thing to remember is that nothing of consequence has ever happened on these Saudi shows. The most lasting events have been Shane winning a tournament to set up his obnoxious Best In The World schtick, and Titus O'Neill stacking it while running down the ramp.

It would be absolutely brilliant for Bray Wyatt to murder Goldberg. Just wipe him out. God that would be so great, which is why it won't happen.

[BGMaverick]

The thing to remember is that nothing of consequence has ever happened on these Saudi shows.

Except for The Fiend actually winning the Universal Title...

[Gangers]

Oh yeah. Was that in Saudi? Ok fair enough I forgot that.

[BGMaverick]

Oh yeah. Was that in Saudi? Ok fair enough I forgot that.

It was.

[Nash Diesel]

Goldberg just further cheapens the World championship with a win. Just like when he squashed Lesnar. All the people Lesnar destroyed just to have 50 year old GOLDBERG come in and fucking squash him. THEN he goes and squashed Kevin Owens for the title just making a mockery out of the ultimate goal of any professional wrestler at the expense of some short term booking that hasn't benefited the company, the talent, or the fans.

I can't imagine 20 years ago Vince being like you know what, let's have Ric Flair come in and squash Stone Cold Steve Austin or The Undertaker or even Mick Foley, whoever would be champ. I still haven't forgiven the WWE for Goldberg squashing Lesnar and KO, and I'm sticking to my guns that if he beats The Fiend it's adios WWE. Not even my love for NXT can trump my complete hatred for how they booked Goldberg.

[Horatio]

Goldberg matches tend to be awesome. I'm expecting good things between he and The Fiend, especially a Goldberg title win. The Fiend doesn't need a championship to be his stupid self. Hopefully, Goldberg vs Bryan and Fiend vs Taker at WM36.

[Donald]

I'd actually book Goldberg to take the title off of Wyatt. Perhaps an Undertaker interference. Then you have the Fiend vs. Taker and Goldberg vs. Reigns at WrestleMania. That sounds a lot better to me than Reigns vs. Fiend.

[Nash Diesel]

I'm having a really hard time with all this talk about how Goldberg winning isn't a bad thing. It's fucking terrible. I mean, I get that some people don't care about the future and want to have dudes from the 80's and 90's at the top of the mountain still but this is why WWE have to rely on Saudi Arabian money.

They're willing to shovel cash at your doorstep to keep you employed but then can't figure out why money isn't important to some wrestlers. It's because of dumb shit like Goldberg being a champion or fans wanting him to beat fresh young talent. And Bray Wyatt is a gem, and he's been booked like ass more often than not, and here we have something magical, something super fresh and OVER, and we have people thinking a 50+ year old guy who spent 20 years shitting on the company=HE SHOULD BE OUR CHAMP.

Fuck that guy and his goofy son.

[Donald]

Think it's cause Wyatt is so goddamn awful I'd rather see a 58 year old bald guy win the title for his uninterested son.

[Nash Diesel]

Think it's cause Wyatt is so goddamn awful I'd rather see a 58 year old bald guy win the title for his uninterested son.

Well, I was leaving you out of that by name because I know you don't like Wyatt. But for fuck's sake man, you'd rather see that then just have Wyatt wait and go title v. title against Strowman at Mania with Strowman winning both belts Ultimate Warrior style??

If he wins then it says something weird about the WWE. He came in last time and beat a guy who the WWE had maul 90% of the roster for years in less than a minute. Now he could possibly beat a guy that no-sells everyone like he was a babyface Hogan no-selling everyone's finisher lol.

What I'm hoping is the WWE in the same weird state of mind are thinking, shit imagine Fiend beating GOLDBERG!!!!!!!!!!!?!!????!! They're apparently so fucking high on Goldberg suddenly they could very well think that this is like when Nash ended the streak. Look how strong the Fiend will be going into Mania against Roman Reigns with that win over Goldberg! Fuck all his other wins and the beatings he's served on everyone since Summerslam, he needs to beat Goldberg.

God I hope he puts the claw on Goldberg's son. Then again, that big ass hammer looks like some Fortnite shit maybe his son will rename the Jackhammer the Fortnitehammer and win the match instead? In the immortal words of the "creative genius" that is VKM....THAT'S GOOD SHIT! Signed Flex McMahon.

[mth]

Goldberg is not beating The Fiend and winning the title.

[Donald]

Well, I was leaving you out of that by name because I know you don't like Wyatt. But for fuck's sake man, you'd rather see that then just have Wyatt wait and go title v. title against Strowman at Mania with Strowman winning both belts Ultimate Warrior style??

If he wins then it says something weird about the WWE. He came in last time and beat a guy who the WWE had maul 90% of the roster for years in less than a minute. Now he could possibly beat a guy that no-sells everyone like he was a babyface Hogan no-selling everyone's finisher lol.

What I'm hoping is the WWE in the same weird state of mind are thinking, shit imagine Fiend beating GOLDBERG!!!!!!!!!!!?!!????!! They're apparently so fucking high on Goldberg suddenly they could very well think that this is like when Nash ended the streak. Look how strong the Fiend will be going into Mania against Roman Reigns with that win over Goldberg! Fuck all his other wins and the beatings he's served on everyone since Summerslam, he needs to beat Goldberg.

God I hope he puts the claw on Goldberg's son. Then again, that big ass hammer looks like some Fortnite shit maybe his son will rename the Jackhammer the Fortnitehammer and win the match instead? In the immortal words of the "creative genius" that is VKM....THAT'S GOOD SHIT! Signed Flex McMahon.

I'd love for Strowman to face the Fiend but it's not gonna happen.

I'd rather not have Goldberg vs. the Fiend at all. What a strange match to book. You don't want either guy to lose so why? Have Goldberg face Ziggler again, or Rowan or Corbin or so many guys that it won't matter if they lose. Then have the Fiend face the winner of a Battle Royal that Shorty G somehow wins. And have Wyatt squash Shorty G cause he sucks too.

[Horatio]

Wyatt is over like rover but be fair, the fans preferred Danielson.
They're retards for cheering Wyatt and they know it.

And Goldberg is over like nobody's business.
SummerSlam was the best WWE showcard top to bottom, it delivered like no other WWE show in 2019, and all that anyone said was how great the Goldberg squashing Ziggler segment was. No one cared about Fiend/ Balor, they just liked the Fiend's niche entrance.
They eventually loved Fiend winning the title, but again, be fair, they were getting sick of Seth.

The Fiend is evil.
Goldberg isn't.
The stupid thing is that Saudi Arabians are gonna have to choose between the two.
I think Goldberg can pull off a convincing win, if Yes over Bryan could only pull off a convincing try.

[Nash Diesel]

Wyatt is over like rover but be fair, the fans preferred Danielson.
They're retards for cheering Wyatt and they know it.

And Goldberg is over like nobody's business.
SummerSlam was the best WWE showcard top to bottom, it delivered like no other WWE show in 2019, and all that anyone said was how great the Goldberg squashing Ziggler segment was. No one cared about Fiend/ Balor, they just liked the Fiend's niche entrance.
They eventually loved Fiend winning the title, but again, be fair, they were getting sick of Seth.

The Fiend is evil.
Goldberg isn't.
The stupid thing is that Saudi Arabians are gonna have to choose between the two.
I think Goldberg can pull off a convincing win, if Yes over Bryan could only pull off a convincing try.

He could barely pull off hitting the middle turnbuckle without knocking himself the fuck out, I don't see how anything he does at this stage in his life would be convincing. But it's Goldberg. The guy who shit on the company for 12 years only to have them sign him and squash Lesnar for no reason at all. Nobody has benefited one bit from Goldberg being around. He's not worth the $ and he's not getting anyone over at his expense because he still thinks it's October 1998.

[Horatio]

he beat Lesnar because he's the original Lesnar and to prove that WM20 was no fluke.
And he jobbed to Lesnar like it was 98 because Lesnar is still one of the only guys who rules it in the ring like Goldberg. The Big Show, Bobby Lashley, The Rock, Scott Steiner - they're not shootstyle awesome in the long run.
Goldberg mentioned a rematch with Lesnar, so there is room for further discussion of their feud.

I'm not the only one who liked Goldberg vs Taker. It wasn't taker's match or a WWE style classic but neither was Regal/Goldberg and people still bring up what an awesome wreck that was.

[Nash Diesel]

I think you are literally the only person who liked that match with Undertaker lol. I could be wrong. People don't say "Man that Regal Goldberg shit was awesome to watch" No they use it as a point of reference for when Goldberg didn't take this shit seriously. He still doesn't. That's why I find these reporters comical when saying Vince has it out for Riddle and considers me an outsider....all while you have Goldberg who to this day acts like wrestlers are second class citizens compared to NFL players.

[Spudz Mackenzie]

In Goldberg's career, either in WCW or WWE, nobody has ever really completely turfed Goldberg. Just been there to eat his offense, pop up, and beat him decisively.

Goldberg doesn't care about wins or losses. He's in Saudi Arabia for a huge paycheck and so his kid can see him wrestle again.

Goldberg/Fiend is going less than 10 minutes. Goldberg's going to be hot off the line, knock Fiend around a bit, Spear, Jackhammer. Fiend kicks at 1. Goldberg gets up, another Spear, goes to setup for the Jackhammer, Fiend locks in the Mandible Claw and Goldberg passes out and gets pinned.

That's the end of it.

"If Goldberg, who once went 190-0 couldn't stop The Fiend; If Goldberg, the man who pinned Brock Lesnar in 15 seconds at the age of 52 couldn't stop The Fiend; Who can? "Who's Next?" is right." - The announcers.

(The answer is Roman Reigns, by the way.)

[Donald]

He beat him at age 50

[Bluegunn]

Or Goldberg pulls a Roman
And spears the fiend through the cage

[PurePlayer]

Goldberg is not beating The Fiend and winning the title.

I don't think he is but I also would not be shocked haha.

[mth]

I don't think he is but I also would not be shocked haha.

I would be absolutely floored if it happens.

[Donald]

*when it happens

It's more likely to happen than Ricochet beating Lesnar.

[Murphy]

*when it happens

It's more likely to happen than Ricochet beating Lesnar.

Totally. I can totally see it happening with 'Mania around the corner. Any other time of year and I'd say no.

[Nash Diesel]

Yep. Gotta make sure the 2 fans who weren't going to order the show do so by putting Goldberg in a top spot. When will the WWE learn. Nostalgia is cool but it's so short term it benefits nobody. I'd love for someone here to step up and explain to me the long term benefits of Bill Goldberg being back. I'm saying when he originally returned. Now there's no arguing, there is zero reason to bring him back unless Matt Riddle gets a piece of his ass.

I actually want to see Riddle v. Goldberg in a shootfight. Sick of Goldberg thinking he's tough.

[Donald]

The long term benefit of Goldberg being champ is that it will bring in the large number of Jewish fans.

[BGMaverick]

Yep. Gotta make sure the 2 fans who weren't going to order the show do so by putting Goldberg in a top spot. When will the WWE learn. Nostalgia is cool but it's so short term it benefits nobody. I'd love for someone here to step up and explain to me the long term benefits of Bill Goldberg being back. I'm saying when he originally returned. Now there's no arguing, there is zero reason to bring him back unless Matt Riddle gets a piece of his ass.

I actually want to see Riddle v. Goldberg in a shootfight. Sick of Goldberg thinking he's tough.

It's a lazy smart approach by them but I honestly think they fail to capitalize on it by doubling down and doing more. They do the bare minimum. I mean, we see tangible, real evidence to show that having Goldberg on screen resonates to an audience. The number literally went up when his segment was on and it fell after in a steep fashion. It speaks to what they're relying on, which you pointed out: nostalgia. That's why they do the reunion shows, that's why the crowd chants Lita when Matt Hardy talks about his history to Edge when speaking to Randy Orton. It's nostalgia.

That's fine to capitalize on that, strictly for the fact that your core audience is pretty much the same for a long haul. My issue, which has been consistent, is that you need to strike while the iron is hot. You're hoping to capture viewers longing for a flashback but you need to hit them over the head with something current and cool after the fact. You need to show that them there's good stuff that is happening now and try to attract those viewers and get them to stay.

[Nash Diesel]

The long term benefit of Goldberg being champ is that it will bring in the large number of Jewish fans.

LOL.

William's Jewish fanbase isn't what it used to be. Especially when the ticket prices started going up.

[Donald]

You think in 10-20 years, people are going to be nostalgiac for Roman Reigns, Seth Rollins, and Baron Corbin? I don't think so haha

[Nash Diesel]

It's a lazy smart approach by them but I honestly think they fail to capitalize on it by doubling down and doing more. They do the bare minimum. I mean, we see tangible, real evidence to show that having Goldberg on screen resonates to an audience. The number literally went up when his segment was on and it fell after in a steep fashion. It speaks to what they're relying on, which you pointed out: nostalgia. That's why they do the reunion shows, that's why the crowd chants Lita when Matt Hardy talks about his history to Edge when speaking to Randy Orton. It's nostalgia.

That's fine to capitalize on that, strictly for the fact that your core audience is pretty much the same for a long haul. My issue, which has been consistent, is that you need to strike while the iron is hot. You're hoping to capture viewers longing for a flashback but you need to hit them over the head with something current and cool after the fact. You need to show that them there's good stuff that is happening now and try to attract those viewers and get them to stay.

I never understood why they couldn't have a current talent squash Lesnar. They could have easily still done Lesnar v. Goldberg, kept the title out of the picture, and accomplished what they wanted (pop a quick rating for the extreme short term). I like the old timers being involved, I don't like major angles and titles involving them like they do sometimes.

And nobody current has really benefited from Goldberg being around. They're too scared to have him work with any of them and when he does it's squash bullshit. I'm not saying Dolph should have had a competitive match, but how about Kevin Owens?

Goldberg's run has basically been Vince going "Ok I know this is how you wanted originally booked with us so we'll oblige you even after you spent 12 years shitting on my company, the wrestlers, the business in general."

That's my issue with Goldberg, the guy has no love, no respect for the business. Him coming and jerking off the Universe sounding like Roadwarrior Hawk, any smart fan knows he was full of shit. His son doesn't even watch wrestling so I highly doubt he was like "Dad, please wrestle for the WWE in front of my eyes!" He could have taken his son to Japan and did something stupid there against a blowup doll lol. Maybe Goldberg and his son v. Kenny Omega and that 9 year old girl lol.

[Nash Diesel]

You think in 10-20 years, people are going to be nostalgiac for Roman Reigns, Seth Rollins, and Baron Corbin? I don't think so haha

I do. Maybe not to us, but like our generation, did we give a fuck about Dory Funk Jr being in a Royal Rumble? I bet back in 1995 or whenever that was there was some 40 year old fan going "HOLY FUCKIN SHIT DORY FUNK THIS IS THE SHIT!"

And there are young fans who don't give a flying fuck about Goldberg or even some of these cats like John Morrison and MVP because they don't know them and/or don't remember them.

[BGMaverick]

I never understood why they couldn't have a current talent squash Lesnar. They could have easily still done Lesnar v. Goldberg, kept the title out of the picture, and accomplished what they wanted (pop a quick rating for the extreme short term). I like the old timers being involved, I don't like major angles and titles involving them like they do sometimes.

And nobody current has really benefited from Goldberg being around. They're too scared to have him work with any of them and when he does it's squash bullshit. I'm not saying Dolph should have had a competitive match, but how about Kevin Owens?

Goldberg's run has basically been Vince going "Ok I know this is how you wanted originally booked with us so we'll oblige you even after you spent 12 years shitting on my company, the wrestlers, the business in general."

That's my issue with Goldberg, the guy has no love, no respect for the business. Him coming and jerking off the Universe sounding like Roadwarrior Hawk, any smart fan knows he was full of shit. His son doesn't even watch wrestling so I highly doubt he was like "Dad, please wrestle for the WWE in front of my eyes!" He could have taken his son to Japan and did something stupid there against a blowup doll lol. Maybe Goldberg and his son v. Kenny Omega and that 9 year old girl lol.

Because they marginalize their talent. Someone like Drew is a breath of fresh air because the guy is booked now like this shit is real and he's gearing up for the fight of his life and he's got the wind behind him. The problem is that Drew was marginalized pretty much since being on the main roster. They refuse to really go for it with multiple people when it's right there in front of them. They're so extremely slow in moving.

They tried with Reigns and it clearly wasn't taking and we know the gambit that has been run since then.

I will say, my gripe that I listed previous was canceled out in some ways because they're showing a new audience this pretty dynamic and different character. That's good, but you've got to show more outside of that match. If you're talking about Kevin Owens then or now? I presume you mean back then. Owens was clearly entrenched with Jericho and they were already set in their ways and just got lazy in the moment with the match with Goldberg.

[BGMaverick]

There's a fundamental philosophy that I perceive WWE is operating under and it's making them a hell of a lot of money but it's flimsy. They're relying on their brand to carry things, not stars. That's the thing with Mania. You're not buying it because of the matches. You used to get Mania because it was the culmination of stories with big stars. You're buying it for the experience now. In a lot of ways, they're an upstart or mom and pop shop that's looking to be partially bought out by someone bigger.

[Nash Diesel]

Because they marginalize their talent. Someone like Drew is a breath of fresh air because the guy is booked now like this shit is real and he's gearing up for the fight of his life and he's got the wind behind him. The problem is that Drew was marginalized pretty much since being on the main roster. They refuse to really go for it with multiple people when it's right there in front of them. They're so extremely slow in moving.

They tried with Reigns and it clearly wasn't taking and we know the gambit that has been run since then.

I will say, my gripe that I listed previous was canceled out in some ways because they're showing a new audience this pretty dynamic and different character. That's good, but you've got to show more outside of that match. If you're talking about Kevin Owens then or now? I presume you mean back then. Owens was clearly entrenched with Jericho and they were already set in their ways and just got lazy in the moment with the match with Goldberg.

Isn't it crazy that the KO v. Jericho match was supposed to be for the Universal title but Lesnar threw some stroke around and wound up getting the belt on Goldberg? Fucking bullshit.

There's a fundamental philosophy that I perceive WWE is operating under and it's making them a hell of a lot of money but it's flimsy. They're relying on their brand to carry things, not stars. That's the thing with Mania. You're not buying it because of the matches. You used to get Mania because it was the culmination of stories with big stars. You're buying it for the experience now. In a lot of ways, they're an upstart or mom and pop shop that's looking to be partially bought out by someone bigger.

Yep. CM Punk was right when some of us (Me included) thought he was just sour. Nowadays the brand is carrying the company more than ever imo. It kind of takes away from big moments like the women headlining, because then you start to wonder, did it really make a fat guy cannonball splash on the business or was it a rain drop in the ocean?

And even if it wasn't the end because even back in the old days, Hogan beat Slaughter but then 5 months later was main eventing Summerslam against him with Warrior in some shit tag match lol. But for the most part it was the place for huge moments and endings. WM 14 with Austin going over Shawn and Shawn riding off into the sunset for 4-5 years really felt like the company changed overnight. We've had a handful of Mania's like that but not very many recent ones unfortunately.

Most of us have thought that the WWE needed to build stars off the back of the previous generation. That's not a bad thing that's just how most if not all sports work. The legends start to fade and the new breed takes over. Somewhere along the way the WWE stopped that method of thinking. Was it The Rock v. Cena? Was it the return of Brock maybe? I don't know. But right around there it went from building the next generation to relying on people who were made during the Ruthless Aggression era or earlier, most of them earlier.

[BGMaverick]

Isn't it crazy that the KO v. Jericho match was supposed to be for the Universal title but Lesnar threw some stroke around and wound up getting the belt on Goldberg? Fucking bullshit.

It's dumb, yes, but hindsight kind of looks favorably on it in the context of Jericho/Owens and the actual match at Mania 33. To me, that match felt pretty flat. I guess you can make an argument that the bloom was off the rose because the title wasn't involved but there was an epic series of events that ultimately led to that match, notwithstanding. I came away feeling meh about their match. Lesnar/Goldberg wasn't great but it was alright for what it was.

Yep. CM Punk was right when some of us (Me included) thought he was just sour. Nowadays the brand is carrying the company more than ever imo. It kind of takes away from big moments like the women headlining, because then you start to wonder, did it really make a fat guy cannonball splash on the business or was it a rain drop in the ocean?

And even if it wasn't the end because even back in the old days, Hogan beat Slaughter but then 5 months later was main eventing Summerslam against him with Warrior in some shit tag match lol. But for the most part it was the place for huge moments and endings. WM 14 with Austin going over Shawn and Shawn riding off into the sunset for 4-5 years really felt like the company changed overnight. We've had a handful of Mania's like that but not very many recent ones unfortunately.

Most of us have thought that the WWE needed to build stars off the back of the previous generation. That's not a bad thing that's just how most if not all sports work. The legends start to fade and the new breed takes over. Somewhere along the way the WWE stopped that method of thinking. Was it The Rock v. Cena? Was it the return of Brock maybe? I don't know. But right around there it went from building the next generation to relying on people who were made during the Ruthless Aggression era or earlier, most of them earlier.

I can't necessarily fault the line of thinking because look at what they've done financially. Yes, they could be making more but they're making a shit ton of money. They don't need a parachute for quite some time because they're safe financially. On top of that, they're on the cusp of getting even more stability with the idea of peddling their PPVs again. You can't blame them for it either. The landscape of the television industry right now is provides incentives those who have something that tracks an audience. Unless they're misguided, they're going to find a way to bring in additional profits, despite the general trajectory of the actual product itself.

I think part of the brand versus stars theory is they're getting more examples now of people leaving the nest if they get bigger.

I would rather see the fruits of the labor come due to actual quality in talent across the board weekly being entertaining and exciting rather than opportunistic timing.

[Sasori]

I never understood why they couldn't have a current talent squash Lesnar. They could have easily still done Lesnar v. Goldberg, kept the title out of the picture, and accomplished what they wanted (pop a quick rating for the extreme short term). I like the old timers being involved, I don't like major angles and titles involving them like they do sometimes.

And nobody current has really benefited from Goldberg being around. They're too scared to have him work with any of them and when he does it's squash bullshit. I'm not saying Dolph should have had a competitive match, but how about Kevin Owens?

Goldberg's run has basically been Vince going "Ok I know this is how you wanted originally booked with us so we'll oblige you even after you spent 12 years shitting on my company, the wrestlers, the business in general."

That's my issue with Goldberg, the guy has no love, no respect for the business. Him coming and jerking off the Universe sounding like Roadwarrior Hawk, any smart fan knows he was full of shit. His son doesn't even watch wrestling so I highly doubt he was like "Dad, please wrestle for the WWE in front of my eyes!" He could have taken his son to Japan and did something stupid there against a blowup doll lol. Maybe Goldberg and his son v. Kenny Omega and that 9 year old girl lol.

That 9 yr. old girl is around 20 now, lol.

[mth]

Bayley defending the Women's Championship against Namoi or Carmella at this show seems like a pretty big deal. Seems like a women's match is going to be a regular thing perhaps which is great.

[Nash Diesel]

Bayley defending the Women's Championship against Namoi or Carmella at this show seems like a pretty big deal. Seems like a women's match is going to be a regular thing perhaps which is great.

I hated the last one so I hope that A-it's Naomi who gets the nod because B-then the match won't completely suck. Natalya v. Lacey Evans was T.E.R.R.I.B.L.E. Those poor little girls are now going to think that's quality just like the boys who saw Goldberg v. Taker think that's the high bar the WWE has set for everyone else.

[BGMaverick]

I'm so interested to see what they plan to do with Goldberg and The Fiend. You can make a case for either scenario of Goldberg winning or The Fiend winning, really.

[PurePlayer]

I have a bad feeling Goldberg is winning which is a horrible decision. If someone should beat the Fiend it's someone on the main roster.

[Kdestiny]

I would very much hate that, and I think most fans would too.

[BGMaverick]

I have a bad feeling Goldberg is winning which is a horrible decision. If someone should beat the Fiend it's someone on the main roster.

I would very much hate that, and I think most fans would too.

What's interesting about the idea of the fans and the decision is the fact he clicks with the audience. I can't speak to with any authority to this past Friday but there was data that showed he was the biggest explanation for a quarterly bump when he was on two weeks ago. I guess the tangible evidence to speak of for this past Friday was the literal response he got from the crowd. It seemed apparent he was the most over person in the building that night.

The biggest thing that works for his character is that he doesn't take shit. We saw Rollins looking scared to death, Bryan seeming apprehensive but at least convincing himself there was nothing to be scared of and showing confidence, but Goldberg isn't putting up with any of it. That's what is cool in a lot of ways and that's what you want your top face to present to the audience. Why they can't do that for people who are there weekly on a consistent basis is perplexing. It doesn't defy logic for someone like Goldberg to resonate that way because he should and should to this audience. It's just intriguing for how they plan to move forward with it.

It should be a very telling learning experience for the creative staff, but it clearly hasn't clicked for them.

[Nash Diesel]

What's interesting about the idea of the fans and the decision is the fact he clicks with the audience. I can't speak to with any authority to this past Friday but there was data that showed he was the biggest explanation for a quarterly bump when he was on two weeks ago. I guess the tangible evidence to speak of for this past Friday was the literal response he got from the crowd. It seemed apparent he was the most over person in the building that night.

The biggest thing that works for his character is that he doesn't take shit. We saw Rollins looking scared to death, Bryan seeming apprehensive but at least convincing himself there was nothing to be scared of and showing confidence, but Goldberg isn't putting up with any of it. That's what is cool in a lot of ways and that's what you want your top face to present to the audience. Why they can't do that for people who are there weekly on a consistent basis is perplexing. It doesn't defy logic for someone like Goldberg to resonate that way because he should and should to this audience. It's just intriguing for how they plan to move forward with it.

It should be a very telling learning experience for the creative staff, but it clearly hasn't clicked for them.

How many wrestlers in the last 30 years have been a Goldberg though? That's like looking at John Cena and seeing a bump in ratings and wondering why creative can't replicate John Cena's ability to move the needle.

It's like in MMA. Bellator MMA put Royce Gracie v. Ken Shamrock 3 on free tv and it was like the biggest rating an MMA fight had ever done on cable. We're talking 2 dude who were 50, 25 years passed their physical prime, and they basically outdid every other fight in the history of the sport sans maybe 1 or 2.

It's nostalgia. It has nothing to do with modern creative and everything to do with who it is. And I'll be honest, Goldberg no-selling the Fiend isn't exactly something positive. The guy no-sells practically everything about this business and that's what got him over. Never losing, never looking hurt.

[BGMaverick]

How many wrestlers in the last 30 years have been a Goldberg though? That's like looking at John Cena and seeing a bump in ratings and wondering why creative can't replicate John Cena's ability to move the needle.

It's like in MMA. Bellator MMA put Royce Gracie v. Ken Shamrock 3 on free tv and it was like the biggest rating an MMA fight had ever done on cable. We're talking 2 dude who were 50, 25 years passed their physical prime, and they basically outdid every other fight in the history of the sport sans maybe 1 or 2.

It's nostalgia. It has nothing to do with modern creative and everything to do with who it is. And I'll be honest, Goldberg no-selling the Fiend isn't exactly something positive. The guy no-sells practically everything about this business and that's what got him over. Never losing, never looking hurt.

I get the argument but the disconnect comes when you reference MMA, Bellator, or whatever.

The list of wrestlers in the last 30 years is minuscule but who is that on? The performer plays a role, yes, but the creative plays just as much if not larger of a role in creating that star. They dictate the terms. Sure, you can make a star in MMA but that buzz is lost if they lose and they just move on to someone else. But then if you're really special and lose, you still have a chance, so it's not like WWE needs to book an unstoppable monster who wins all the time. You have to be smart and make the characters people want to invest in. WWE has the system. They can game it to whatever they want. The talent needs to be on par or up to the task but I think we see multiple people, be it male or female, who would be up to the task if they were booked to stand out.

It speaks to an issue we've talked about that WWE is in the business of building its brand, not its stars.

[PurePlayer]

Goldberg won't draw high ratings long term. Heck, the smackdown rating wasn't even that much higher. Is making him champ and beating one of their hottest characters before Mania really going to bring them more revenue? That's obviously a no.

if they don't want to do Reigns vs Fiend, do Cena vs Fiend. Fiend likes going after people that wronged him in the past. You can then run Roman vs Bryan or Roman vs Braun then since there aren't any other credible heels besides Sheamus. You can do Sheamus vs whoever Roman doesn't face.

if they go with Cena, Taker, and Edge wrestling, there is no need for Goldberg.

[Donald]

I don't like Wyatt or Goldberg, but I'd be much happier with a Goldberg win. The Fiend was interesting at first, but like the prior Bray Wyatt, became uninteresting rather fast for me.

[Nash Diesel]

I get the argument but the disconnect comes when you reference MMA, Bellator, or whatever.

The list of wrestlers in the last 30 years is minuscule but who is that on? The performer plays a role, yes, but the creative plays just as much if not larger of a role in creating that star. They dictate the terms. Sure, you can make a star in MMA but that buzz is lost if they lose and they just move on to someone else. But then if you're really special and lose, you still have a chance, so it's not like WWE needs to book an unstoppable monster who wins all the time. You have to be smart and make the characters people want to invest in. WWE has the system. They can game it to whatever they want. The talent needs to be on par or up to the task but I think we see multiple people, be it male or female, who would be up to the task if they were booked to stand out.

It speaks to an issue we've talked about that WWE is in the business of building its brand, not its stars.

It's also a totally different climate for pro wrestling when comparing Goldberg's era versus today. Anyone who disagrees should take a look at ratings, house show/ppv ticket sales. Pro wrestling is not what it was. Have you ever gone back and watched ppvs from the Attitude Era? A lot of them do not hold up in 2020. It wasn't so much that creative was the shit, it was just perfect timing, the moon and stars aligned perfectly and there was a void that wrestling filled that didn't last very long.

I'll be honest, I don't think the booking of the last 15 years would have been able to pull of a Stone Cold or The Rock or DX or any of that cool shit that blew up to a legendary level that maybe 1 guy has reached since. Cena. And look how long that guy had to work just to even be in the conversation. Goldberg is an example of catching lightning in a bottle. This wasn't some guy who worked for 10 years and finally got a break. Right place, right time, right look, right era, right company.

So in all that what I'm saying is NOSTALGIA is a major booking tool in modern WWE. If you don't believe me, look at the last oh idk 8 WrestleMania's. I don't think we're getting a bunch of young fans excited to see people like Goldberg and Lesnar or even The Undertaker. Shit, there aren't many our age that are jazzed up about these people either.

[BGMaverick]

It's also a totally different climate for pro wrestling when comparing Goldberg's era versus today. Anyone who disagrees should take a look at ratings, house show/ppv ticket sales. Pro wrestling is not what it was. Have you ever gone back and watched ppvs from the Attitude Era? A lot of them do not hold up in 2020. It wasn't so much that creative was the shit, it was just perfect timing, the moon and stars aligned perfectly and there was a void that wrestling filled that didn't last very long.

I'll be honest, I don't think the booking of the last 15 years would have been able to pull of a Stone Cold or The Rock or DX or any of that cool shit that blew up to a legendary level that maybe 1 guy has reached since. Cena. And look how long that guy had to work just to even be in the conversation. Goldberg is an example of catching lightning in a bottle. This wasn't some guy who worked for 10 years and finally got a break. Right place, right time, right look, right era, right company.

So in all that what I'm saying is NOSTALGIA is a major booking tool in modern WWE. If you don't believe me, look at the last oh idk 8 WrestleMania's. I don't think we're getting a bunch of young fans excited to see people like Goldberg and Lesnar or even The Undertaker. Shit, there aren't many our age that are jazzed up about these people either.

I will totally agree with the climate of the industry being radically different and the availability of alternatives been much more rich now compared to back then. I'll agree but I think you're giving them too much of a pass with the second series of comparisons. They don't need those attitudinal stars for that era because we're not in that era but you could sure make a case that people like Reigns, Flair, Lynch, Riddle, Lee, Ripley, Owens, Rollins should be bigger deals than they are but they've been marginalized or are in infancy stages within the WWE system.

And I agree that nostalgia is a booking tool...but it's their crutch, one they rely upon way too many times. There's been way too many instances where they've had a gift horse in the mouth and they opt to zag away from it.

[Nash Diesel]

I will totally agree with the climate of the industry being radically different and the availability of alternatives been much more rich now compared to back then. I'll agree but I think you're giving them too much of a pass with the second series of comparisons. They don't need those attitudinal stars for that era because we're not in that era but you could sure make a case that people like Reigns, Flair, Lynch, Riddle, Lee, Ripley, Owens, Rollins should be bigger deals than they are but they've been marginalized or are in infancy stages within the WWE system.

And I agree that nostalgia is a booking tool...but it's their crutch, one they rely upon way too many times. There's been way too many instances where they've had a gift horse in the mouth and they opt to zag away from it.

Oh yeah I mean I have my list of people I think could should and maybe would be bigger deals. And some of those names as you said are in their infancy stages so we can't really start talking about people like Keith Lee when having a discussion about why Goldberg gets a pop. Again, it's a completely different environment where we can't even assume someone like Roman Reigns might be a bigger name because not only is the creative process different but so is the audience overall.

Because like I said, you back and watch some of that old shit and you're like, what the fuck is this shit how was this popular? It was popular by association. I'm sure a Headbangers v. New Age Outlawz match segment has a higher rating than any Roman Reigns segment simply because more people watched wrestling. It doesn't mean it was actually good which is why when these 2 teams returned 10-15 years later, nobody fuckin cared. We got everything out of them that we needed.

[BGMaverick]

The OC versus The Viking Raiders
Angel Garza versus Humberto Carrillo
Mansoor versus Dolph Ziggler

all added to tomorrow.

[Nash Diesel]

The OC versus The Viking Raiders
Angel Garza versus Humberto Carrillo
Mansoor versus Dolph Ziggler

all added to tomorrow.

You would think the WWE would do something more with this guy Mansoor. I mean, he was actually pretty solid on the mic at the Rumble pre-show but I think I've only seen him wrestle once since the Cesaro match on NXT. Maybe he's done more at house shows or something but the random Mansoor match is odd. Do they watch Raw and Smackdown wondering where the fuck Mansoor went? Maybe he's their Brock Lesnar.....Just shows up randomly and gets the W.

[Donald]

Mansoor was great at the Rumble. I hope to see more of him. He's young...only 24 I believe.

[BGMaverick]

You would think the WWE would do something more with this guy Mansoor. I mean, he was actually pretty solid on the mic at the Rumble pre-show but I think I've only seen him wrestle once since the Cesaro match on NXT. Maybe he's done more at house shows or something but the random Mansoor match is odd. Do they watch Raw and Smackdown wondering where the fuck Mansoor went? Maybe he's their Brock Lesnar.....Just shows up randomly and gets the W.

I think you mean the Takeover preshow but maybe I'm wrong.

It looks like he's wrestling 6-8 times a month for NXT house shows. I know he's made two TV appearances on 205 Live and NXT UK (two areas I'm sure you're not routinely watching lol). Sounds like he was an opportunistic signing from a Saudi Arabia tryout and they're taking their time with him in terms of his development.

[Nash Diesel]

I think you mean the Takeover preshow but maybe I'm wrong.

It looks like he's wrestling 6-8 times a month for NXT house shows. I know he's made two TV appearances on 205 Live and NXT UK (two areas I'm sure you're not routinely watching lol). Sounds like he was an opportunistic signing from a Saudi Arabia tryout and they're taking their time with him in terms of his development.

Yeah whatever preshow he was on I thought he did a good job.

He's only 24??? He looks 44. So yeah they definitely have some time. And yeah I don't watch much of either of those shows (trying to get more into NXT UK).

[ckauffman28]

just curious.. is anyone actually watching Thursday at noon live?

[Rusty Shackleford]

just curious.. is anyone actually watching Thursday at noon live?

I'm "working from home" tomorrow so might check it out.

[Horatio]

I will be watching, altough I am expecting to hate it...

[BGMaverick]

I won’t watch live.

[Badger]

Off work for the moment so I'll check it out.

Match I'm most curious about is the outcome of Wyatt/Goldberg.

[Donald]

just curious.. is anyone actually watching Thursday at noon live?

I will be for sure.

[Badger]

Also curious to see how long Ricochet/Lesnar will last. Might actually set my stopwatch.

[Nash Diesel]

Also curious to see how long Ricochet/Lesnar will last. Might actually set my stopwatch.

Other than Kofi he rarely has squash matches with smaller guys. Actually other than Kofi when was the last time Lesnar had a super short match? It's not exactly commonplace.

[BGMaverick]

Other than Kofi he rarely has squash matches with smaller guys. Actually other than Kofi when was the last time Lesnar had a super short match? It's not exactly commonplace.

Define super short because his match with Cain was barely two minutes.

[Spudz Mackenzie]

Under 5 minutes for Ricochet/Lesnar.

Ricochet hits Brock with a wild ass, flying springboard move as soon as Lesnar enters the ring. He gets a "close" two count. He bounces off the ropes and hits Brock with "a ton of momentum" and knocks him down to one knee. He'll get Brock down with something, maybe Brock goes for a running charge in the corner and eats post? Ricochet hits that big 630 splash, for two. Ricochet goes for another springboard move from the outside in, Lesnar catches him out of the air like a well-trained dog catches dog treats, F-5's Ricochet through the mat, and over.

Less than 5 minutes. Brock only needs one move to do it.

[Donald]

Other than Kofi he rarely has squash matches with smaller guys. Actually other than Kofi when was the last time Lesnar had a super short match? It's not exactly commonplace.

Vs. Cain Velasquez 2:03
Vs. Braun Strowman 3:15

He also beat Kane in 35 seconds at a house show in 2018 lol

[Badger]

Other than Kofi he rarely has squash matches with smaller guys. Actually other than Kofi when was the last time Lesnar had a super short match? It's not exactly commonplace.

He went the distance with Bryan and Styles but then that's Bryan and Styles.

Cain Valesquez was shortish (thanks for the time Donald). He had lots of build and a tuny bit of offence but Lesnar still dispatched him pretty handily. Ricochet I'd love to have a good run of and offense if at least maybe 10 minutes but he's had zero build so I'm only expecting a few minutes but would love to be proven wrong.

Will also be setting the stopwatch for Wyatt and Goldberg as don't expect that to go very long.

[Donald]

I think I'd choose soup over showdown.

[Nash Diesel]

Yeah if there's going to be a super short match it's going to be Fiend losing the title to Goldberg.

You know Goldberg...."My gimmick is based in realism so that's why I fuck up all the time" Goldberg. This is one guy I wish they would find audio from 8 years ago of him calling black folks the N word.

[BGMaverick]

I will be for sure. (watching live)

I think I'd choose soup over showdown.

Must be a soup shortage in your neck of the woods.

[Badger]

I think I'd choose soup over showdown.

What kinda soup?

[mth]

Under 5 minutes for Ricochet/Lesnar.

Ricochet hits Brock with a wild ass, flying springboard move as soon as Lesnar enters the ring. He gets a "close" two count. He bounces off the ropes and hits Brock with "a ton of momentum" and knocks him down to one knee. He'll get Brock down with something, maybe Brock goes for a running charge in the corner and eats post? Ricochet hits that big 630 splash, for two. Ricochet goes for another springboard move from the outside in, Lesnar catches him out of the air like a well-trained dog catches dog treats, F-5's Ricochet through the mat, and over.

Less than 5 minutes. Brock only needs one move to do it.

You left out a lot of German suplexes.

I'm actually off tomorrow so I probably could watch this show for something to do so we'll see. I only give half a shit about a couple of matches.

[Donald]

What kinda soup?

Cheese and brocolli