Have at it.
Goldust? Blue Meanie? JBL? Saba Simba? Jerry Lawler?
It could be the way they acted, the words they said, the over the top racist aspect of the gimmick they were given (hence the Saba Simba inclusion).
*Thanks Jim Cornette for being the muse for this thread*
Kamala. Nothing against the performer, but his gimmick was that of a black savage from Africa. They did very little to redeem the concept, and he was hardly even a force to be reckoned with to make up for it.
Akeem the African Dream (White man jiving)
Mexi-Cools (Stereotyping)
Virgil (Black Servant)
Kaientai (Overdubbed)
Jordan Myles (Slave Name)
Last edited by Donald; November 20th, 2019 at 5:48 PM.
Muhammed Hassan
AhahahaOriginally Posted by Donald
To me Saba Simba is the most blatant one.
Would you put the Headshrinkers and Umaga in the same vein for being portrayed as Samoan savages?
Headshrinkers? Definitely. Umaga? Not as much. Umaga was, for one, not made to look like a mindless idiot. Second, they actually gave him good exposure and let him be a threat, even if he didn't go as far as he could have.
I think the Headshrinkers are a tad below the level of offensive that Kamala is, but that also could be due to being black and having a direct attachment to the racist portrayal.
Umaga was a clever beast.
Sargeant Slaughter turning iraqi sympathizer to draw heat from the Gulf War has to be considered.
Yo Joe?
Beaver Cleavage was bad and offensive. A weird incest type angle based on the 50s show Leave It to Beaver, why?
The only one that actually offended people in a real, tangible, actual outage way was Muhammad Hassan. So I'll go with that
I'm a jive soul bro.
Forgot this little gem from Goldust.
Saba Simba was the name that came to me when I saw the thread title.
The Godfather on quite a few levels nowadays.
I wonder how the LGBTQ community viewed Billy and Chuck.
Hassan. People were just not ready for a character like that.
GLAAD were very supportive until the ‘we aren’t gay, we did this for publicity’ marriage angle
Kamala did have a run with Hogan in 87. He wasn't as comedic then and was seen as a genuine threat.
They did try to paint him as a cannibal though so...
I actually love the Kamala gimmick though just because he portrayed him so well.
Yeah sent them a wedding present and everything.
They messed up by being all "ugh, we aint gay, no way" etc instead of just saying the thing had gone to far and they were not gay etc. Could have salvaged a bit of good will with a bit more tact.
And yet it got more offensive with the whole wife beating stuff.
Yeah they could’ve handled that better although the Bischoff priest reveal was amazing.
Didn't they have Billy and Chuck judging a bikini contest the next week?
You know, in case we didn't believe them or something.
It was a couple of weeks later but yeah.
The week after the wedding, they just cracked some gay innuendo jokes.
I thougth Eugene was offensive.
I always wonder sometimes when thinking of gimmicks here that are stereotypes like the Headshrinkers or Mexicools if over in those countries and parts of the world Americans are stereotyped hardcore as well. Like if a black dude from New York is wrestling in Spain, does he come out looking like Run DMC? Does a white dude come over and he's automatically like a Donald Trump or a hillbilly lol??
Not a fan of how the gimmick was booked at times but I wasn’t personally offended by it. They tried to make him an “idiot savant” type wrestling character but as far as I can recall they didn’t outright flame him with “retard” insults.
Nick Dinsmore did his best with the gimmick, but considering how good a worker that I read he was in OVW, he was limited and deserved better.
I suppose the really offensive characters are those that play a character that has nothing to do with their background. So, like Yokozuna wasn't actually Japanese, he was Samoan. I don't recall if they ever called him Japanese, or a Japanese sympathizer or what, but that would be an example. Saba Simba, Akeem, Kamala... At least Umaga was from Samoa.
Kerwin White
Thanks to the PWI 500 I had an early interest in Nick Dinsmore. Reading about him and Rob Conway pre-main roster, in mags and on the internet, they were talked about like the 2nd coming of the likes of Benoit, Malenko, etc. And you would hear about how Dinsmore was always helping train the green as grass dudes like Batista, Cena, and others.
So when these 2 finally get called up and the gimmicks FUCKING SUCK, it was heart breaking. They were the top 2 guys I think Cornette was really high on.
Funny thing is, Dinsmore is still doing the Eugene gimmick. He goes by U-Gene. And it was a fun little gimmick but I can definitely see why it offended people because sometimes they forget he's just playing the part. It was more like Rainman than Simple Jack or The Ringer. But again I see where people could look at it and go "Well, maybe if he was truly mentally challenged", idk.
Case can be made for JBL. "Border patrol", goose stepping in Munich to name a couple of examples.
Austin was certainly offensive.
"I am a Racist" Hogan was offensive.
But Moolah was the most offensive.
Until we get to Benoit
But these weren't characters you are thinking of real life.
Last edited by Bill Casey; November 22nd, 2019 at 4:12 AM.
I thought La Resistance was pretty bad actually.
Not the gimmick itself as such, that was fine, but the commentary usually by Jim Ross, "If you don't like this country get out" etc etc with a ton of vitriol.
I mean its World Wrestling Entertainment... the travel and are broadcast all over the world. A lot of foreigner angles are done a bit tongue in cheek but this one was proper nasty at times. maybe it was just Ross that annoyed me...
Key was offensive enough to the USA Network and WWF's sponsors at the time to essentially cost Vic Grimes a full time deal.
Yeah, Vic Grimes in the WWF. Crazy, right? I don't even know if he ever showed up on the big boy shows. The only match I ever caught with him in The 'F was a squash in a six-man tag teamed with Albert and Droz on Shotgun Saturday Night.
He was Albert and Droz's drug pusher. "Key" was short for Kilo. And he looked like a fatter, uglier Mordecai who couldn't work.
Drugs are bad, mmkay?
Funny thing is, Jordan Myles is a stage name. His slave name would actually be Albert Christian Hardie.
This was also a political topic where France wasn't willing to help the US and other countries so the joke across many platforms for years was that France were and still are a bunch of pussies only concerned about themselves. So for that time it just fit with what everyone else was doing and saying toward the French.
Cryme Tyme
Still hard to fathom two African-Americans allowing themselves to be depicted as street thugs.
You have to be careful when applying the standards of today to people, ideas, cultural aditudes and bias plus different racial, sexual, moral ( yes, some folks used to even have morals) and religious standards that existed in society than exist today.
By the standards of today, Abraham Lincoln, the 'man who freed the slaves', was clearly a racist - by our standards.
Having said that, I don't recall anybody ever being offended by Kamala back in the day.
Or Virgil either, we saw it was a gimmick.
Saba Simba, the WWF was sinking fast and TonynAtlas looked stupid. Beginning and end of story.
This PC narrative that runs through EVERYTHING and has to shit all over every single action, creation and even thought we have wasn't rolling into the media and Democratic Party's mainstream agenda quite yet. We were still free to think our own thoughts without bias from the liberals poisoning us ( not that some of 'us' didn't need this kind of poisoning lol)
Oh, ok
You probably dont remember because there was no internet and you were a little kid who would never have thought about it. Kamala wasnt ruined by liberals.
I have had said It before but NWO is the classic old man yelling at clouds about pc gone mad, absolutely batshit nonsense.
He 100 percent has a maga hat and has chanted build the wall and send them back at a Trump rally.
If Kamala upset enough people that liberal, SJW-types came along and ruined him or protested him, especially back in the 80’s, we wouldn’t have Kongo Kong today.
By 2019’s “woke” standards, Kongo Kong is probably the most offensive. He’s a walking African tribesman parody. He’s a living Looney Tunes character who looks like he has Bugs Bunny tied up in the other room. He’s threading that needle between fun and gauche and offensive. Your mileage may vary, I suppose.
No, I was a grown adult. Sorry fail.
Yeah he got you there GBF!
IÂ’m not gonna attempt to pull out stats out my arse and say the majority werenÂ’t offended by Kamala. There may have been plenty for all we know because things are so much more visible and under scrutiny now. For the record I wasnÂ’t offended in the day as well unlike NWO, I was a kid back then and just watched it like a cartoon but I can perfectly why people like Psycho were. The role was played well as MMH said also.
I wish the number 1 Rajah Kamala fan @BIGFEETS was still here to say something.
Surely the only people who should be offended by Kamala are Ugandan giants?
To be clear, I wasn't particularly offended by Kamala, and I don't really care if people like him. I always thought his WWF stuff was mostly boring, and I also get it was a product of the time that was more insensitive than, I think, outright racist, the same way you'd see witch doctors portrayed in old media.
But if you were to ask me to objectively call out the most offensive gimmicks, Kamala is up there. And to act like there isn't something wrong with the portrayal is to be ignorant and defensive.
As far as I know, Psycho’s not Ugandan but can understand where he’s coming from.
Offense can be so subjective. Who are we to say “Oh lighten up” when for personal reasons they can be offended. Someone not necessarily of race can be offended by the idea of it. There are of course cases where it is very blatant though like Hassan and the guys in ski masks right after the London bombings for example.
Don't think I've ever been personally offended by anything during my years of watching WWE. I guess it's cause Kamala was around when I was a wee lad and probably actually thought he was a Ugandan giant. Just like I thought Duke Drose was an actual garbageman. I ate it all up.
Even the shit about Eddie's death, or Reed Flair's death being mentioned...I just like edgy stuff I suppose, things that make people uncomfortable. Doesn't mean I feel any disrespect towards Eddie or Reed, it's really sad and I wish they were still with us, but I"m more than sure the performers feel the same way as I do
I didn’t throw my arms up in the air about Eddie and Reed’s deaths either, but could see the POV of others who would. Just thought they were unnecessary ways to get cheap heat.
With Eddie they couldn't help but exploit his death and in a way it was weird and in another it gave us easily 1 of the most hated characters, Vickie Guerrero.
With Reid it was bcuz Paige was too over and Charlotte too new and naturally a heel....so cheap heat came on the scene.
Both were lame. You don't see people break the 4th wall and insult the death of Chris Farley or Richard Pryor during a movie. Why do it here? Maybe if the character died sure...but what's the difference between say Owen Hart and Miss Elizabeth and then the 2 we named? Why don't they make those comments if it's all Hollywood?
When you wish upon a star...
Vince McMahon by far.
Last edited by BIGFEETS; July 24th, 2022 at 8:10 AM.
Riddle
Hassan.
Man Hassan was such a great gimmick. I always thought it was very thought provoking like holy shit, we really do this shit toward people who LOOK a certain way. They were idiots for airing that segment and I know there's discussion about who's fault it was and why that segment wasn't edited out. But damn they missed out on someone who despite being a mega heel, he had you half way on his side if you were thinking beyond his skin color. The guy was Italian for fuck's sake that was some 1970's approach lol.
Saba Simba. It was offensive in a super racist way, and also offensive in an "I think our fans are too stupid to notice this is Tony Atlas" way.
I was, but then again I didn't know who Tony Atlas was in 1991.
Toss up between original DX and the Nation. Hasaan at least was trying to play an Arab that was tired of being a stereotype.
They did a terrorist sacrifice angle the day after the 7/7 terror attacks in London, and still allowed it to air.
Imagine how you'd feel if they had done something similar after 9/11. Yeah, exactly.
Who was excusing that? Aside from that obvious fuck up he was a thought provoking character that made people not just in the US but around the world who would see a man that LOOKS like Osama Bin Laden go holy shit I DO think they're terrorists. Just like when you came to the US and rode that bus.
Hassan was someone that I think was ahead of his time. If he came around 2010 and talked about how almost 10 years later people that look like him are still being met with prejudice it would've fit better. I'm shocked they never really tried to go that route with Ali-and if they did I just don't pay enough attention to him to wonder. Hassan could've spun that into a babyface role but back in 2004-2005 it was like expecting Goldust to debut as a babyface in 1995. Took him a couple years to get to a point where he could turn babyface-and he killed it.
Offensive? Or Controversial? I don't think the Nation in any form was ever offensive unless you were offended by PG-13's rap intro lol
For me it's Vince. He booked a lot of chauvinistic, racist, out-of-touch nonsense, but when he was booking himself in out-of-touch nonsense, it really added that extra layer of self-indulgence.
Also, he's easily in the WWE Mt. Rushmore.
Yeah but they made him a heel - essentially saying that the audience are a bunch of racists who don't like muslims. How on earth is that supposed to be entertaining?
They made him heel because of his approach. Sure he was right, but he was fuckin prick about it. That's why I'm saying if it came later it would've fit better because in 2004/2005 it was still too fresh and many of us weren't getting the message-despite him being a heel. It had to be a heel gimmick at first. Just like many great villains in the movies, you sometimes sit back and go you know what, The Joker isn't exactly wrong.
Hassan, he wasn't wrong. And again, the only thing the character did that was offensive was the weird segment with the masked men and that was all just a timing issue. How was that any worse than the Ministry stuff with Stephanie and Austin? Not saying it wasn't cringe, I'm just saying in terms of offensive characters IDK if Hassan is really that offensive. People are offended because well, like he said, you look at him and think "terrorist". "How could WWE do something like this!?!?!" They did it because they were genius in making people go oh shit this guy is right, I see a tan man wearing a turban he must be Al-Qaeda!!
Just like when people see a black man wearing a particular style of clothing they immediately think gangbanger. Or a white dude with a shaved head, must be a white supremacist.
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