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Thread: VAR

  1. #1
    Shit is orrrn Simon's Avatar
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    zimbabwe

    VAR

    Well, it's here now and we've had a while to get used to how it's likely to be over the past couple of years...how do you feel about it?

    I was broadly in favour when it was first announced, but I'm quickly turning against VAR as it just doesn't seem possible to use it in the spirit in which it should be used. Offsides (correctly) being given by literally millimetres, instances of fans not knowing whether to celebrate or not, it just doesn't sit well with me. One of the leading arguments for VAR was that it would end debates about controversial decisions, but A) it hasn't, it's just led to more tedious debates about camera frame rates and what is considered the exact moment that the offside line is taken, and B) I don't think I particularly wanted those debates to stop happening anyway.

    Is this even a worthwhile discussion, or are we now stuck with VAR, at least for a few years because the technology has been paid for?

  2. #2
    I'm always watching you.. MMH's Avatar
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    I hate it (surprise surprise)

    The best thing about football is "limbs moments" where you score and everyone celebrates, there seems to be a weird pause now with VAR as you wait to see if a goal is given.

    The referee mistakes were also a big part of football to me, getting riled up over a poor decision, the ridiculous notion that they even out over the season etc. main problem is VAR is still referees (ie humans) making the decision and they can still get things wrong.

    There were loads if incidents in the womens world cup that went to VAR but were still not made clear. Penalties were given that were still down to a referees opinion and it seemed to ruin every interesting moment of the competition.

    Mainly though I don't get why they keep trying to change football. It was fine the way it was.

    I hate the offside line too. Offside is there as a rule to stop players goal hanging, it shouldn't be getting used to punish a striker for having his big toe in an offside position.

  3. #3
    Bluecurești UK Blue's Avatar
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    somalia
    Quote Originally Posted by MMH View Post
    I hate the offside line too. Offside is there as a rule to stop players goal hanging, it shouldn't be getting used to punish a striker for having his big toe in an offside position.
    This is the big one for me. What we will start seeing now is teams playing offside more often knowing that the technology is in their favour, which will be a determent to the game from a spectators perspective. There needs to be some sort of daylight rule included. Disallowing that Gabriel Jesus goal on Saturday was ridiculous.

    I was fine with VAR being used provided that its sole purpose was to eliminate refereeing howlers - what we have now is a system where every goal is checked and subsequently approved or overturned a minute or so later. Each manager should get a couple of reviews each match like a captain does in cricket.

    Of course some decisions will be debatable even with the use of technology so in these instances the on-field decision should stand.

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    I like the idea of it, but the execution isn't there yet. Fans in stadiums arent kept in the picture fully when VAR is being carried out.

    Replays should be on the screens and there should be a time limit (eg - 2 mins for the decision to be reviewed). If after the time limit nothing has been agreed, then the original decision should stand.

  5. #5
    RFF WORLDWIDE WESTERN CON son_of_foley's Avatar
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    They need a daylight rule and they need to only correct decisions were a clear and obvious error is made. If you can't categorically decide after 3 or 4 replays it's not clear and obvious

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    Donde esta la biblioteca Pablo Diablo's Avatar
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    The biggest problem with a daylight rule is that offside is offside. People get called "just offside" all the time, why should the rule change when a video is used?

    That said while I think the arguments about people not knowing when to celebrate is overstated (I mean fans would cheer for blatantly offside goals all the time before VAR and you think now they're suddenly going to restrain themselves?) I too have become less a proponent of VAR because while it has correctly changed some decisions, other times it has just introduced more questions.

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    I'm always watching you.. MMH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pablo Diablo View Post
    The biggest problem with a daylight rule is that offside is offside. People get called "just offside" all the time, why should the rule change when a video is used?

    That said while I think the arguments about people not knowing when to celebrate is overstated (I mean fans would cheer for blatantly offside goals all the time before VAR and you think now they're suddenly going to restrain themselves?) I too have become less a proponent of VAR because while it has correctly changed some decisions, other times it has just introduced more questions.
    That's the problem though, offside isn't offside as you have the interfering with play nonsense which we saw a couple of times in the summer.

    For me it needs to go back to anyone being offside is offside regardless. They are interfering with play by their mere existence.

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    RFF WORLDWIDE WESTERN CON son_of_foley's Avatar
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    It's being over-used is the main issue and trying to be perfect. You have people saying it's a business more than a sport now...no fuck off it isn't. The premier league is a business based on the sport not the other way around and they need to be careful they don't ruin the sport as that's their fucking 'product'

    You look at how seemless and perfect the goal line tech is. That's technology that's used properly and has been honed to the point no-one can complain about it not even MMH

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    RFF WORLDWIDE WESTERN CON son_of_foley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pablo Diablo View Post
    The biggest problem with a daylight rule is that offside is offside. People get called "just offside" all the time, why should the rule change when a video is used?

    That said while I think the arguments about people not knowing when to celebrate is overstated (I mean fans would cheer for blatantly offside goals all the time before VAR and you think now they're suddenly going to restrain themselves?) I too have become less a proponent of VAR because while it has correctly changed some decisions, other times it has just introduced more questions.
    The rule would change fullstop not just when the video is used. Daylight or similar wording is just to stop people suggesting someone's shoulder being in front is offside etc. It isn't. Whether it should be 'trailing leg' to 'trailing leg' or similar I don't mind but there needs to be more clear of a line because honestly it's a nonsense right now

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    Ironclad Contract RuneEdge's Avatar
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    I think I've made this point here before. I like VAR. The problem is not with VAR, but the rulebook or the refs who are using it the tech. VAR itself is flawless in what it provides, which is a video replay. There's not much else VAR could do for you. What ref's now do with that new information is where the problems are coming in.
    Take handballs for example. If refs are giving bad or debatable calls on handballs with VAR, then its because it's not clear to the ref what the handball rule is (or the ref has a different understanding than you do). How close should the arms be to the body when defending? Which parts of the body exactly does the handball rule apply to? How far does the ball need to travel before touching the hand? How do we differentiate between "handball" and "ball to hand"? Referees around the world need to come together and agree on one rule so that there's no debate to be had regarding these questions. Right now it feels like the rule is too ambiguous. And if it stays that way, theres no technology in the world that could solve this problem.
    And the same could be said for the offside rule. We had that incident in the last City game where an offside was given because an arm was over the line. Even with VAR, the offside was given. Not because VAR failed us, but because the ref didnt know that arms and hands dont count when ruling for offside.
    VAR gives referees extra eyes and plenty of time to come to a decision, so VAR has done its job. Its these shit refs who dont actually know the rules, that are causing the problems.

    Besides all that, I love the drama with VAR. That City goal against Spurs in the UCL semi 2nd leg being ruled offside was great to watch.

  11. #11
    Donde esta la biblioteca Pablo Diablo's Avatar
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    I thought the City instance was determined by where shoulders begin (which is folly in its own right)

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    Ironclad Contract RuneEdge's Avatar
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    To be honest, I didnt hear what the decision was based on from the commentators. But the actual replay to me clearly showed the shoulder being onside and only the arm being offside.

  13. #13
    Bluecurești UK Blue's Avatar
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    somalia


    If attackers are given offside in instances such as above, where Sterling's shoulder is a fraction ahead of the last defender but zero advantage was gained, the game will ultimately suffer as a result.

    However if you want to give Gabriel Jesus offside as he put the ball in the net a couple of seconds later (which is LOGICAL) that is a different matter entirely.

  14. #14
    Ironclad Contract RuneEdge's Avatar
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    To me, thats not his shoulder. That's just the arm over the line.
    But lets say for the sake of argument that it is the shoulder as well, then the defender's shoulder is also over the line and playing Sterling onside, right?

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    NOICE! Peter Griffin's Avatar
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    Pile of wank...I'm just here waiting for JP to come in here tbh

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    Donde esta la biblioteca Pablo Diablo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RuneEdge View Post
    To me, thats not his shoulder. That's just the arm over the line.
    But lets say for the sake of argument that it is the shoulder as well, then the defender's shoulder is also over the line and playing Sterling onside, right?
    There are two lines. The blue line is where they judge the defender's shoulder to be and the red line is where Sterling's shoulder is.

    As I said though the issue here is that you're having to decide what the shoulder is.

  17. #17
    Shit is orrrn Simon's Avatar
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    zimbabwe
    The past few posts show exactly the problem. The controversy hasn't been stopped, it's just become far less interesting...not a criticism of anyone here because it's a relevant discussion, but doesn't it seem completely mental that we're now being drawn into long-winded debate over where the shoulder ends and the arm begins, aided by pictures of two lines that are right next to each other? I have no idea of what the correct solution is, but it surely cannot be this.

  18. #18
    KIKI MUTEMBE BBF's Avatar
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    How is that clear and obvious?!

  19. #19
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    What about a challenge system like tennis? Each team gets, say, 2 challenges per game. After that, referee decision stands.

  20. #20
    Shit is orrrn Simon's Avatar
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    zimbabwe
    I do like the idea of the cricket system both in terms of reviews and umpire's original decision in close calls...but then people will just complain about where you draw the line between a close call and a clear error we created this evil and now we have to live with it.

  21. #21
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    Not sure how cricket works, but in the NHL you're given one challenge per game. If you challenge a play and are incorrect then you lose your timeout. There's obviously no timeouts in football, but something along the lines of giving up possession of the ball might work.

  22. #22
    Defiance is a four letter
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    While most of you were bleating over the washing line and warning of the impending apocalypse every time a new system was used inefficiently and poorly (game's dead, game's gone mate, game's dying, game's on its last legs, I don't understand the game anymore), the PGMOL were collating these examples and using the mistakes in them to implement a VAR system in the Premier League which relied more on common sense, trusting your colleagues to do their job and a will to keep games flowing.

    If the first weekend is anything to go by, they've done a bang up job. Not perfect (I mean, of course it fucking wasn't, it never will be), but if that's what we see every week the artificial moan storm that's been whipped up will fuck off sharpish.

    Right, can we all just agree on one thing going forward? Somebody will be offside, of they won't. Either the attacker is ahead of the defender, or he isn't. It makes no difference if a player is offside by a millimeter or a mile (big pitch). For the purposes of the offside law, they essentially mean the same thing. Offside errors almost certainly don't class themselves as clear or obvious, but they are checked for every goal because they have the technology to do so and can you imagine the shitstorm if they weren't using it and goals were being given, or ruled out, incorrectly?

    Even implemented in inferior ways, VAR has already had a huge impact on major competitions. England have suffered, Man City too. Poor little babbies, so hard done by with these, let me just see here, that's it, correct decisions that are being made, allowing the game to naturally progress, instead of a refereeing mistake acting as a big fuck off Butterfly in the match and now Big Sam has no face.

    It does need to continue improving, and it will. More autonomy will be passed on to the video refs to make calls, referees will catch on that looking at the same angle 15 times only makes you look like a twat so just make a decision, Offside and red card checks sped up. This is important to keep in mind whenever somebody thinks about stepping on that soapbox for a rant, this version of VAR we have now, this is the worst it will ever be from this moment on. It's only going to get better as we learn the best ways to use its benefits while hiding the aspects of it that piss some of you off.

    Embrace the future lads. Team Skynet FTW

  23. #23
    The Thinking Man's Idiot Simmo Fortyone's Avatar
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    My fundamental belief is sport played at a professional level should as closely resemble the amateur level as possible, so to that end I am dead against any and all officiating assistance technology in all sport.

    All VAR is doing is bringing the correct decision rate up a few percent. It will never, ever get to 100% for as long as humans are involved in the decision making process.

    In AFL this year they have been using a replay review system and there's been a few instances where they spend 90-120 seconds dicking around with different angles and back and forth and STILL made the wrong decision. There was one two weeks ago where there was an absolute howler of a wrong call on the goal line, to the point where the players on the field stopped playing because they could see it went over, but because the umpire didn't ask for a review then the system wasn't used at all. The last couple of weeks they're getting a bit better at having 2-3 brief looks and going "fuck it, umpire's call" if it's not immediately obvious, but that's still been a hell of a lot of cash and bother to only mildly improve accuracy.

  24. #24
    The Thinking Man's Idiot Simmo Fortyone's Avatar
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    In last year's A-League grand final, this wasn't considered enough sufficient evidence to overturn the linesman's original call



    So yeah.

  25. #25
    I'm always watching you.. MMH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JP View Post
    While most of you were bleating over the washing line and warning of the impending apocalypse every time a new system was used inefficiently and poorly (game's dead, game's gone mate, game's dying, game's on its last legs, I don't understand the game anymore), the PGMOL were collating these examples and using the mistakes in them to implement a VAR system in the Premier League which relied more on common sense, trusting your colleagues to do their job and a will to keep games flowing.

    If the first weekend is anything to go by, they've done a bang up job. Not perfect (I mean, of course it fucking wasn't, it never will be), but if that's what we see every week the artificial moan storm that's been whipped up will fuck off sharpish.

    Right, can we all just agree on one thing going forward? Somebody will be offside, of they won't. Either the attacker is ahead of the defender, or he isn't. It makes no difference if a player is offside by a millimeter or a mile (big pitch). For the purposes of the offside law, they essentially mean the same thing. Offside errors almost certainly don't class themselves as clear or obvious, but they are checked for every goal because they have the technology to do so and can you imagine the shitstorm if they weren't using it and goals were being given, or ruled out, incorrectly?

    Even implemented in inferior ways, VAR has already had a huge impact on major competitions. England have suffered, Man City too. Poor little babbies, so hard done by with these, let me just see here, that's it, correct decisions that are being made, allowing the game to naturally progress, instead of a refereeing mistake acting as a big fuck off Butterfly in the match and now Big Sam has no face.

    It does need to continue improving, and it will. More autonomy will be passed on to the video refs to make calls, referees will catch on that looking at the same angle 15 times only makes you look like a twat so just make a decision, Offside and red card checks sped up. This is important to keep in mind whenever somebody thinks about stepping on that soapbox for a rant, this version of VAR we have now, this is the worst it will ever be from this moment on. It's only going to get better as we learn the best ways to use its benefits while hiding the aspects of it that piss some of you off.

    Embrace the future lads. Team Skynet FTW
    These lines though.... how correct are they even? The lines for the Sterling goal, are they the lines that were taken at the EXACT moment that the ball was played? Do we have lines or something to determine when the ball was played?

    It's shit robotic nonsense.

  26. #26
    NOICE! Peter Griffin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JP View Post
    While most of you were bleating over the washing line and warning of the impending apocalypse every time a new system was used inefficiently and poorly (game's dead, game's gone mate, game's dying, game's on its last legs, I don't understand the game anymore), the PGMOL were collating these examples and using the mistakes in them to implement a VAR system in the Premier League which relied more on common sense, trusting your colleagues to do their job and a will to keep games flowing.

    If the first weekend is anything to go by, they've done a bang up job. Not perfect (I mean, of course it fucking wasn't, it never will be), but if that's what we see every week the artificial moan storm that's been whipped up will fuck off sharpish.

    Right, can we all just agree on one thing going forward? Somebody will be offside, of they won't. Either the attacker is ahead of the defender, or he isn't. It makes no difference if a player is offside by a millimeter or a mile (big pitch). For the purposes of the offside law, they essentially mean the same thing. Offside errors almost certainly don't class themselves as clear or obvious, but they are checked for every goal because they have the technology to do so and can you imagine the shitstorm if they weren't using it and goals were being given, or ruled out, incorrectly?

    Even implemented in inferior ways, VAR has already had a huge impact on major competitions. England have suffered, Man City too. Poor little babbies, so hard done by with these, let me just see here, that's it, correct decisions that are being made, allowing the game to naturally progress, instead of a refereeing mistake acting as a big fuck off Butterfly in the match and now Big Sam has no face.

    It does need to continue improving, and it will. More autonomy will be passed on to the video refs to make calls, referees will catch on that looking at the same angle 15 times only makes you look like a twat so just make a decision, Offside and red card checks sped up. This is important to keep in mind whenever somebody thinks about stepping on that soapbox for a rant, this version of VAR we have now, this is the worst it will ever be from this moment on. It's only going to get better as we learn the best ways to use its benefits while hiding the aspects of it that piss some of you off.

    Embrace the future lads. Team Skynet FTW
    Thread delivers.

  27. #27
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    I hate it.

    I always have because it just breaks up the game too much. Every goal is checked so we’re already in a place where spontaneous celebration and joy has been eradicated. Players and fans waiting for confirmation that they can celebrate is just so so shit.

    It’s thrown stupid rules into focus so there is an argument that it will improve if the rules are changed, especially offsides. But it also shows how much of football is about interpretation so VAR essentially doesn’t have any impact on decisions which have always been debatable like handballs.

    Overall it’s a huge negative which takes a huge amount of joy out of football.

  28. #28
    Donde esta la biblioteca Pablo Diablo's Avatar
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    I mean look at this lack of celebration

    https://www.manutd.com/en/videos/det...td-4-chelsea-0

  29. #29
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    Game's gone.

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    RFF WORLDWIDE WESTERN CON son_of_foley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UK Blue View Post


    If attackers are given offside in instances such as above, where Sterling's shoulder is a fraction ahead of the last defender but zero advantage was gained, the game will ultimately suffer as a result.

    However if you want to give Gabriel Jesus offside as he put the ball in the net a couple of seconds later (which is LOGICAL) that is a different matter entirely.
    The crazy thing is arms and shoulders are explicitly excluded from offside right

  31. #31
    Bluecurești UK Blue's Avatar
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    somalia
    The rule is any part of the body that you can legally play the ball with. So hands and arms are excluded but shoulders are not.

    In theory a player could be given offside on account of his erection. It wouldn't need to be a big erection either, just an inch or two.

    They should focus the line on the position of the last defender and say if any part of the attacker is level or behind that line, then no offside. Defenders shouldn't be given the advantage when the decisions are so close because it'll be bad for the game (every team playing offside, loads of breaks in play and disallowed goals) and as MMH correctly pointed out, it's not why the rule was introduced in the first place.

  32. #32
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    Worst thing to happen to foorball but at the same time not the technology's fault. It's the eedjits who look at it and still get it wrong after a long delay. Kills the momentum and atmosphere in the game even if the decision turns out to be right.

    Tennis/Hawkeye have it right. They don't take nearly as long and the decision's accepted.

  33. #33
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    Is the game gone yet?

  34. #34
    Shit is orrrn Simon's Avatar
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    zimbabwe
    Yes, it's been awarded to Tottenham. Thanks for playing lads.

  35. #35
    What'cha gonna do? Alex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JP View Post
    Is the game gone yet?
    I don't know why you're trying to be so clever about it. In the analysis of the situation the rule being correctly applied was good and the time it took was bad.

    I would imagine that any football fan would agree that three minutes of celebrations before the goal was ruled out was more frustrating than if it had been ruled out initially.

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    Was it really 3 minutes? It felt much quicker watching it.

  37. #37
    What'cha gonna do? Alex's Avatar
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    It took 8 minutes

  38. #38
    Defiance is a four letter
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex View Post
    I don't know why you're trying to be so clever about it. In the analysis of the situation the rule being correctly applied was good and the time it took was bad.

    I would imagine that any football fan would agree that three minutes of celebrations before the goal was ruled out was more frustrating than if it had been ruled out initially.
    Time is such a fluid thing.

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    Donde esta la biblioteca Pablo Diablo's Avatar
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    https://streamable.com/mkrjf

    There are definitely arguments against VAR, no need to exaggerate things to make your point. The actual VAR decision came in under a minute and a half, which one can argue is still too long but I think considering everything that's not long at all.

  40. #40
    What'cha gonna do? Alex's Avatar
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    It's far too long. If it hit the arm then give it. There's 7 referees looking at it either in person or on the tele.

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    Shit is orrrn Simon's Avatar
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    To be fair VAR isn't the issue here, the issue is that the handball rule is stupid.

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    Donde esta la biblioteca Pablo Diablo's Avatar
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    I'm still undecided on the new handball rule, but I think VAR is to blame for it. They've made it more binary because there is VAR to check. And this way all VAR has to determine is whether it hits a hand or not and not have to interpret intention.

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    What'cha gonna do? Alex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon View Post
    To be fair VAR isn't the issue here, the issue is that the handball rule is stupid.
    The issue is the time it took which is solely VAR and not the rule. If it hit the hand and the ref gave it, as would have happened before VAR on 90% of occasions, then we'd have a bit of a moan about the rule and move on.

    I'm of the opinion that TV viewers should be the last considered for these things but how could the celebrations and excitement go on so long without any indication that it was about to be disallowed for either the TV viewer or the match going fan.

  44. #44
    I'm always watching you.. MMH's Avatar
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    It is indeed the rule that is the issue, and VAR was zero help.

    VAR is flawed by its very nature as it is still open to human interpretation. It just means more shit referees have a go at getting a decision wrong.

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    Defiance is a four letter
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex View Post
    I don't know why you're trying to be so clever about it. In the analysis of the situation the rule being correctly applied was good and the time it took was bad.

    I would imagine that any football fan would agree that three minutes of celebrations before the goal was ruled out was more frustrating than if it had been ruled out initially.
    I didn't appreciate the amount of absolute trollish nonsense in this when I saw it this morning.

    This is art.

  46. #46
    What'cha gonna do? Alex's Avatar
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    Game respects game, a top retort.

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    Defiance is a four letter
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    Can't, games gone.

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    Thank fuck Scotland could never afford this.

  49. #49
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    VAR is bollocks and the only people who like it are joyless robots.

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    Legend Mik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JP View Post
    Can't, games gone.
    Not sure why you're going to bat for it in such a defensive way. Yes people are being knee-jerk over reactionary to something that is new and it's application of it will change considerably as we get more used to it. But even when it's at it's most refined, there is still no guarantee that it's going to improve the overall spectacle and culture of football. People are allowed to not like it.

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    Defiance is a four letter
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    Not sure why you're going to bat for it in such a defensive way. Yes people are being knee-jerk over reactionary to something that is new and it's application of it will change considerably as we get more used to it. But even when it's at it's most refined, there is still no guarantee that it's going to improve the overall spectacle and culture of football. People are allowed to not like it.
    Of course. Even if VAR manifestly improved football, somebody could hold legitimate views as to why they dislike it.

    I haven't got a problem with people disliking VAR, that'd be daft.

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    Donde esta la biblioteca Pablo Diablo's Avatar
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    There are good people on both sides.

  53. #53
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    Nah.

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    VAR is obviously brilliant.

  55. #55
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    Prime examples yesterday, IMO stonewall pens for Chelsea and Man United but arguably debatable. Ref didn’t give either but with VAR it takes an extra 90 seconds to come to the same decision. So the majority of people think it’s the wrong decision, and it’s slowed the game, and it’s killed the crowd. Rubbish.

  56. #56
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    And another absolute stonewaller for Man City not given. What’s the point.

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    VAR is utter shit. Andy is clearly right.

  58. #58
    Donde esta la biblioteca Pablo Diablo's Avatar
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    The premier league has had the worst implementation in terms of getting correct results of any league or tourney I’ve seen. The refs in the booth don’t want to override their colleagues on any subjective decision. (I think they were right for Rashford yesterday mind). It’s been a complete shambles.

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    Legend Mik's Avatar
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    The refs are refusing to make decisions on the pitch because they are leaving it to VAR to get the blame, then the VAR refs don’t want to contradict the refs on the pitch. It’s creating more arguments than answering questions at the moment and making the games all about VAR.

  60. #60
    Ironclad Contract RuneEdge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    The refs are refusing to make decisions on the pitch because they are leaving it to VAR to get the blame, then the VAR refs don’t want to contradict the refs on the pitch. It’s creating more arguments than answering questions at the moment and making the games all about VAR.


    Maybe we need "teams" of match officials. Rather than appointing individuals for the jobs, have a team of them who develop an understanding with each other over time and take the responsibility as a team. Then we'll have teams of officials vying to officiate the top games, who'll of course be chosen based on their own performances.

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    NOICE! Peter Griffin's Avatar
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  62. #62
    What'cha gonna do? Alex's Avatar
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    I don't really mind stuff like that. Mistakes happen. My main issues with VAR are:

    - the technology isn't there for the "matters of fact" decision. On offsides it's still a human guessing which frame to interpret an offside line. Given the stuff IBM did with the European tour to measure club head speeds etc. I'm surprised technology wasn't introduced with VAR so that it's a more clinical decision.

    - The time it takes and the fact it's not made obvious to the audience. Decisions need to be made quicker and the video referee's communication needs to be made available in the stadium/on the broadcast.

  63. #63
    Legend Mik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    The refs are refusing to make decisions on the pitch because they are leaving it to VAR to get the blame, then the VAR refs don’t want to contradict the refs on the pitch. It’s creating more arguments than answering questions at the moment and making the games all about VAR.

    And again in the Liverpool match today. Another bottlejob decision with a ‘VAR will overturn it if it’s stonewall’ mentality. Refs are shirking decisions and using VAR as a vindication rather than making tough decisions and letting VAR prove them wrong if they are.

  64. #64
    Legend Mik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    The refs are refusing to make decisions on the pitch because they are leaving it to VAR to get the blame, then the VAR refs don’t want to contradict the refs on the pitch. It’s creating more arguments than answering questions at the moment and making the games all about VAR.

    And again in the Liverpool match today. Another bottlejob decision with a ‘VAR will overturn it if it’s stonewall’ mentality. Refs are shirking decisions and using VAR as a vindication rather than making tough decisions and letting VAR prove them wrong if they are.

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