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Thread: Listening Group Week 3: Capital Punishment by Big Pun

  1. #1
    Simon
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    Listening Group Week 3: Capital Punishment by Big Pun

    I ummed and ahhed over so many albums that mean a lot to me, but decided most of them were either too ubiquitous (Original Pirate Material, Illmatic), too likely to get me abused (East 17's Up All Night) or both (either of the Spice Girls albums). So I've gone with another album that has been a mainstay of my listening for the best part of 20 years now.

    Capital Punishment is the debut release by rapper Big Punisher aka Big Pun, and the only album released before he died - although his sophomore CD Yeeeah Baby (yes it is genuinely called that) was completed prior to his death, it wasn't released until after. My first exposure to it was the catchy-as-shit R&B crossover track Still Not A Player, which used to get occasional play on MTV Base and still pops up on oldschool hip-hop albums today, but it's far removed from what most of this album is about, which is classic boom-bap rap over beats ranging from the laid-back soulful vibes of Punish Me (with lyrics which are frankly disgusting at points - "If you're good I'll put away the wood and give you the moustache") to the RZA-produced filth of Tres Leches.

    The album isn't perfect - there are a few obvious filler tracks and, as seemingly required by law at the time, a ton of terrible interludes and skits (although Pakinamak does at least give you a bizarre laugh the first time you hear it) - but the sheer number of fantastic tracks puts it just one rung below the all-time classic hip-hop albums like Illmatic, Ready To Die and Reasonable Doubt.

    Pun had an incredible way of turning old soul samples into something more aggressive and threatening - You Ain't A Killer in particular has a brooding fierceness about it that belies the chilled out melody. Elsewhere the violence is more overt - opening track Beware makes Pun's intent clear, "I gave you fair warning - beware", while The Dream Shatterer's grotesque imagery of Pun threatening to "carve BP on your forehead" has always stayed with me.

    Unlike most albums of this kind, there isn't a track included to show you Pun's softer side the way 2pac (Dear Mama) often did - the best you get is Pun putting the guns away and going on about how much sex he gets and how impressive his life is - I'm Not A Player is a classic of the braggadocio style, while You Came Up's bouncy horn samples and Noreaga hook will dig into your brain.

    I listened to a lot of hip-hop around the turn of the century that I knew was 'cool' and critically acclaimed, but that I didn't really get - including Illmatic, which is generally considered one of the best rap albums of all time, but it took me years to understand why. Capital Punishment was one of the few that really hit me straight away, I didn't have to put any effort in - just an incredibly skilled technical rapper and lyricist with a fantastic ear for a beat; not many albums boast a production line as good as this one. I'm sure I'll be contradicted on this, but I think this is a rare album that should have something even for people who don't have any interest in hip-hop without trying too hard to gain a pop following. It's just really bloody good.

  2. #2
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    Thanks for the review. Not going to bother now.

  3. #3
    The Rosk
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    I'll give this a go shortly.

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    Yeeeeeeeees, Simon. Amazing choice.

  5. #5
    The Rosk
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    Simon, what mood/situation do you have to be in to listen to this? Because I just had to turn it off halfway through.

    I will honestly give this another big go when I'm in a better mood. I liked Illmatic after you suggested I listen to it so theoretically I should enjoy this too. But skits with him shooting people and fingering a bird just felt a tad juvenile and I can barely understand what he's saying.

    Come back on ELO and carry on playing

  6. #6
    Simon
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    Quote Originally Posted by wardy View Post
    Thanks for the review. Not going to bother now.
    Busy week mate, I am going to listen to it you bastard.

  7. #7
    Simon
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Rosk View Post
    Simon, what mood/situation do you have to be in to listen to this? Because I just had to turn it off halfway through.

    I will honestly give this another big go when I'm in a better mood. I liked Illmatic after you suggested I listen to it so theoretically I should enjoy this too. But skits with him shooting people and fingering a bird just felt a tad juvenile and I can barely understand what he's saying.

    Come back on ELO and carry on playing
    I dunno if there is a specific mood really, I agree though that the skits don't exactly make you want to listen to more and Punish Me is a bit of a weird one (though it could be weirder - give Busta Rhymes 'It's All Good' a go if you want to feel sick for a few minutes). If you're struggling to get into it as a whole album, just listen to a few specific tracks:

    The Dream Shatterer
    You Ain't A Killer
    I'm Not A Player
    Still Not A Player
    Tres Leches
    You Came Up

    If you don't like any of those you might as well give up as it's just not for you. It's not really similar to Illmatic in that it's not a social commentary, and it doesn't necessarily hang together thematically the way Illmatic does, but in its own way it's a fantastic album IMO.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Knew I should have gone for Spiceworld.

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    Intercontinental Champion Melly's Avatar
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    Hmm sounds like something I'd never listen to. Willing to give it a spin later. Spice Girls albums are amazing though

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    I shall stick this on in the car, but if I end up doing a bloody drive by, I’m blaming you Simon.

  10. #10
    Simon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melly View Post
    Hmm sounds like something I'd never listen to. Willing to give it a spin later. Spice Girls albums are amazing though
    I genuinely would have preferred to do either of the Spice Girls albums, they mean more to my life with more memories and are way more evocative, but I didn't fancy getting laughed out of the building while everyone else picked their cool soul and indie music haha.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon View Post
    I genuinely would have preferred to do either of the Spice Girls albums, they mean more to my life with more memories and are way more evocative, but I didn't fancy getting laughed out of the building while everyone else picked their cool soul and indie music haha.
    You genuinely needn't had worried. PG got your back.

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    I have approached the first two with just sticking these on the first night as background then giving them a proper play the next morning. This isn't the most ideal going to bed background noise... I might have to reevaluate how I listen to this one because I suspect I am going to need to pay a bit more attention.

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    Intercontinental Champion Melly's Avatar
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    Don't worry about being "cool", choose the music you like

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    Intercontinental Champion Melly's Avatar
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    ....not my cup of tea. I tried.

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    The Thinking Man's Idiot Simmo Fortyone's Avatar
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    Didn't mind it, but could have done without the skits.

    No tracks stood out to me. They all felt pretty similar.

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    Simon, I love the fact you thought you had to try and be cool, when you know I'm gonna be after you at some point and all of the non-Brits on this pact are going to be wondering where H and Claire have been all their lives after I'm done.

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    FUCK YES

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    The Thinking Man's Idiot Simmo Fortyone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JP View Post
    Simon, I love the fact you thought you had to try and be cool, when you know I'm gonna be after you at some point and all of the non-Brits on this pact are going to be wondering where H and Claire have been all their lives after I'm done.
    Googled the name. Ok, sure.

    Why does he go by "H" like a massive wanker?

    Checked his real name. Oh, I see.

  19. #19
    KIKI MUTEMBE BBF's Avatar
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    To be fair he was H long before that.

  20. #20
    The Rosk
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    OK, giving this another go at lunch today. Is it wrong that I am likely going to get Lyrics007.com up whilst listening?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Simmo Fortyone View Post
    Googled the name. Ok, sure.

    Why does he go by "H" like a massive wanker?

    Checked his real name. Oh, I see.
    It was supposed to be H for 'hyperactive' but WE ALL KNEW WHAT IT REALLY STOOD FOR.

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    This record was actually better than I remember. I dont like East Coast rappers from that period. At all. I also dont understand why we are supposed to believe that this 350lb fat guy (who literally died of being fat) is some kind of womanizing playboy.

    All that said, the production is pretty decent and Pun actually had more bars than 90% of today's Trap clowns.

  23. #23
    1-800-Call-My-Bluff Fro's Avatar
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    Punish Me is my jam, but there's a ton of classic tracks on here.

    not liking 90s east coast rappers is like not liking WWF attitude era wrestlers. how

  24. #24
    1-800-Call-My-Bluff Fro's Avatar
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    and saying Pun had more bars than 90% of trap clowns is like saying james bond has more swagger than 90% of hobos

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    Not asleep The Beer Monster's Avatar
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    Not actually finished this yet, this album is long.
    It’s alright so far though, it’s no Wyclef Jean’s Carnival mind.
    My favourite bit from one of the skits so far is when I think it’s Dead Prez says Pun’s rapping is “Like Music”

  26. #26
    GP OG Percussion's Avatar
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    East coast rap is really pretty boring, imo.

    But I come from the south, so wtf.

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    Didn't get the whole way through, yet. It's not a genre I typically go for and this hasn't managed to sway me.

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    Don't just walk in here with a new name like it's nothing and expect us not to say anything, Hurley.

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    Not asleep The Beer Monster's Avatar
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    "Yanamsayin?"

    No mate, I really don't.

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    That done my nut in.

  31. #31
    Simon
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Beer Monster View Post
    "Yanamsayin?"

    No mate, I really don't.
    Clearly you do!

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    Rap can offer up some of the best, most damning, incisive, enlightening social and personal commentary you could ever find. Breaking through conventional communication and offering up new, striking ways of connecting with people who otherwise might not know certain issues or problems exist, widening understanding and acting as a megaphone for those without a voice.

    This, this ain't that. I mean, fuck me, this ain't that.

    I'm nodding along to some tracks. Regardless of how I feel about other things in the album, The Dream Shatterer is fucking quality, I'm Not A Player has some serious funk, Tres Leches has an old school hip hop feel which I like.

    Beyond those though, I bounce between indifference and dislike. The contents and themes of the songs and skits don't just disinterest me, they leave me bemused. As a kid I think I'd have loved it, but I'm not a kid anymore. The word that kept coming back to me as I listened was juvenile.

    For people who listened to this when young I can absolutely understand why there is love for it. Head up, chest beating, "masculinity", angry. But coming in cold now I'm an old git, oh man, some of it just makes me feel a little bit sad.

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    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon View Post
    I genuinely would have preferred to do either of the Spice Girls albums, they mean more to my life with more memories and are way more evocative, but I didn't fancy getting laughed out of the building while everyone else picked their cool soul and indie music haha.
    What the fuck did I just read.............

    Now you have to elaborate because other than images for the spank bank there is absolutely nothing these turd group could offer MEANING in someone's life.

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    They were seminal in the adolescence of young people between 1996 and 2000 the world over.

  35. #35
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    I was never a fan of Big Pun and someone earlier said they weren't a fan of East coast rap from this era and I somewhat agree. I mean yeah we had some incredible UNDERGROUND artists from that area no doubt and we still had DMX, Jay-Z, but yeah never got into a lot of shit that was mainstream at this time. I never got into Ma$e, Big Pun, Ja Rule, Fat Joe but again....You still had dudes like Busta Rhymes who was killin it.

    And I'll say this man, Big Pun influenced a lot of cats. This record wasn't very good even listening to it again all these years later but Pun was still nice with the lyrics.

    And to those wondering how a dude that big thought he was a playa....$$$$$$ makes anyone a fuckin pimp. lol

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by JP View Post
    They were seminal in the adolescence of young people between 1996 and 2000 the world over.
    I mean yeah I jerked off to Ginger Spice and Baby Spice more than I'd like to admit.....outside of that.....I guess if you grew up wanting to wear a Union Jack dress and suck cock to make it big sure.

  36. #36
    KIKI MUTEMBE BBF's Avatar
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    I don't get how you can be so open minded and knowledgeable in the beginning of that post and then the complete opposite in the edit. Its mindblowing.

  37. #37
    The Rosk
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    I really didn't want this one group/thread, out of all the places that people could possibly go on this forum, to end up in another load of shit. Can we not let it go that way please, and just talk about the music? Thanks.

  38. #38
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBF View Post
    I don't get how you can be so open minded and knowledgeable in the beginning of that post and then the complete opposite in the edit. Its mindblowing.
    Well, that's why I needed Simon to swoop in with an explanation as opposed to JP saying something very generic about the influence Spice Girls had on Simon.

    Some things you can only be so open minded about before you're just throwing your hands up and needing some guidance. I honestly don't know any men who grew up listening to the Spice Girls and their music having a meaningful impact on their lives. Shit I don't even know any women who will admit to anything other than an inspired fashion fad or how they dressed up as them for Halloween one time......

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by The Rosk View Post
    I really didn't want this one group/thread, out of all the places that people could possibly go on this forum, to end up in another load of shit. Can we not let it go that way please, and just talk about the music? Thanks.
    We are talking about the music.........Spice Girls, Big Pun=musical acts, correct?

  39. #39
    The Rosk
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    I've listened to this a couple of times again, @Simon. It did grow a little, but it takes a lot for me to like this sort of music (I only really have albums by Tupac and Nas (the latter on your previous recommendation)), and the "juvenile" aspect did get to me a little bit. I can certainly see why, growing up with the big world around you, why this could take on extra meaning, and I'd have probably boasted to my mates growing up about how cool this album was.

    I like "Beware" as an opener, and "The Dream Shatterer" is a pretty standout track, "Tres Leches" (sp?) too, but as a whole, it did go on a little too long and the skits were fucking pointless and angered me. I am probably very shit as I got a lot out of it by reading the lyrics whilst it was playing - I could barely understand what the guy was saying half the time - mind you, that's a problem with my hearing in general.

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    Not asleep The Beer Monster's Avatar
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    As I’m not an expert, what is it about East coast Rap that people don’t like? Is it specifically the rappers weren’t as good, or is there a difference in style? Or is it because they killed Tupac?

  41. #41
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Rosk View Post
    I could barely understand what the guy was saying half the time - mind you, that's a problem with my hearing in general.
    My biggest issue with Big Pun is the fact that even if you didn't know he was a short giant fat dude, he sounds like a fat dude eating while he records.

    The 1 thing I've noticed is nobody speaking on the beats. Anyone enjoy the beats?

  42. #42
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Beer Monster View Post
    As I’m not an expert, what is it about East coast Rap that people don’t like? Is it specifically the rappers weren’t as good, or is there a difference in style? Or is it because they killed Tupac?
    The people that don't like East coast rap is probably just all subjective. Could be the voice, could be the beats. Nowadays everyone pretty much has the same sound because they're clout chasers. But there was a time where in the mainstream you knew who was from where based on the sound. The funk of the West, the laid back slower vibe of the South, the hardcore of the Midwest, and the grime of the East.

    In terms of talent though it's almost impossible to not put East Coast rappers at the top. They have too many greats.

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    GP OG Percussion's Avatar
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    Actually agree almost entirely with Nash there.

    It's just a taste (or distaste) thing for the style.

  44. #44
    Simon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nash Diesel View Post
    Well, that's why I needed Simon to swoop in with an explanation as opposed to JP saying something very generic about the influence Spice Girls had on Simon.

    Some things you can only be so open minded about before you're just throwing your hands up and needing some guidance. I honestly don't know any men who grew up listening to the Spice Girls and their music having a meaningful impact on their lives. Shit I don't even know any women who will admit to anything other than an inspired fashion fad or how they dressed up as them for Halloween one time......

    - - - Updated - - -



    We are talking about the music.........Spice Girls, Big Pun=musical acts, correct?
    Only one of them could sing but fuck my old boots if it wasn't the most perfect, polished pop music. Every tune was catchy as shit and the albums came out at the perfect time for me, in the same way that Eminem came out at the perfect time for me as a teenager a few years later. I dunno if it's just because I associate them with happy, innocent times as a kid but a lot of their songs have an instant emotional effect on me. Two Become One and Viva Forever in particular bring out melancholy instantly.

    Also, tying in with this topic quite neatly, Say You'll Be There is the G-Funk track that never was. The beat wouldn't have sounded out of place on The Chronic.

  45. #45
    Simon
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    https://youtu.be/Bhi8V5w9rww

    That's the Say You'll Be There instrumental.

  46. #46
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon View Post
    https://youtu.be/Bhi8V5w9rww

    That's the Say You'll Be There instrumental.
    lol. I mean....To be fair the reason this beat wouldn't sound out of place is because it was still kind of the popular sound especially the little synth that screams "West coast".

    I should have probably factored in you're a little younger than I am so I can see where you're coming from. It's kind of like when I hear New Kids on the Block or New Edition and it takes me back.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon View Post
    https://youtu.be/Bhi8V5w9rww

    That's the Say You'll Be There instrumental.
    That's far better than the actual song. Also melancholic as fuck.

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    I used to listen to a lot of hip-hop when I was younger so, despite having never heard this album before, it felt familiar and easy to get into compared to the previous selections. Obviously the skits are utter dogshit but the songs are mostly good. His rapping is awesome throughout but Beware and Boomerang had the best beats with the latter being the best track on the album for me. I also enjoyed Still not a Player, You Ain't a Killer, Capital Punishment and I'm Not a Player. The rest was very listenable with only a couple of stinkers (Super Lyrical and Glamour Life), and I was disappointed with Twinz as I love Deep Cover but I didn't care much for the vocals here.

    This has been my favourite album so far. Cheers Simon.
    Last edited by wardy; July 20th, 2019 at 8:57 AM.

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    This was...Ok. I didn't feel the need to turn it off but at the same time I wouldn't go out of my way to listen to it again, That said, Like with most albums in a genre you are a fan of there will be tracks you can at least appreciate. As far as this album goes, Dream Shatterer, Punish Me, Caribbean Connection, Boomerang,Tres Leches and Parental Discretion are tracks I wouldn't mind hearing again.

  50. #50
    1-800-Call-My-Bluff Fro's Avatar
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    I love the social commentary on the title track. This shit is top notch rap, folks (from the first verse):

    They're scared of us, rather beware than dare to trust
    Throw us in jail, million dollar bail, left there to rust
    Let's call in order, give ourselves a chance to enhance broader
    Advance to where minorities are the majority voter
    Holdin' my own, I'm livin' alone in this cold world
    My sister just bought a home without a loan, you go girl
    She's an exception, some people can leap to the impression
    See, me myself, I start flippin' and fall victim to deep depression
    I'm stressin' the issue here, so we can gross the fiscal year
    Tired of gettin' fired and hired as a pistoleer
    There's no longevity livin' off negativity
    Fuck it, I'd rather sell reefer than do pizza delivery

  51. #51
    1-800-Call-My-Bluff Fro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wardy View Post
    I was disappointed with Twinz as I love Deep Cover but I didn't care much for the vocals here.
    Ah man, that's surprising. Twinz is such a celebrated lyrical song. It's just pure incredible bars from start to finish. I mean to me if you asked me what are the best lyrical songs of all time, this would be in the top 10 (also it's maybe the best duo rap song with how they go back and forth). The classic "dead in the middle of little Italy" line is one everyone refers to but the whole song is fire.

    I'm surprised no one else has mentioned Twinz in this thread. It's not exactly a song with a message other than "we're killers on and off the mic" so I get why it might not land with those who don't like rap for the sake of rap but my god, it's so fucking good. It's likely my #1 most played song off the album historically.

  52. #52
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    I have no idea what the lyrics are, I just don't think it sounded that good. Not compared to the original which I love.

  53. #53
    Simon
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    I don't really like Twinz either, besides that one amazing bit the vocals are just ok and the beat is really dull IMO.

    I kind of think Pun was a little underrated as a lyricist, people were focused on his flawless flow that the thrust of his words was sometimes missed, as Fro mentioned the title track has decent social commentary which isn't really something even I as a fan associate with Pun.

    Sadly most of Pun's worthwhile music is contained on that one CD - the follow up is patchy to say the least and bar a decent Terror Squad album and a handful of collaborations there wasn't much else. I would recommend a few other tracks if anyone cares though...

    Off The Books (unreal guest verse from Pun followed by an even better one from the otherwise deeply average Cuban Link, collaborating with the Beatnuts with one of my favourite ever beats...later ripped off by J Lo)

    Who Is A Thug (pretty much a remake of Still Not A Player and almost as good, from the soundtrack of a dumb but enjoyable film called Whiteboyz)

    Live At Jimmy's (off of the criminally underrated Angie Martinez album, a completely unique crossover of hiphop and merengue that Pun smashes to bits)

    Whatcha Gon Do
    Pass The Glock
    (Both off the self titled Terror Squad album)

    Watch Those
    100%
    It's So Hard
    New York Giants
    Leatherface
    (All off Yeeeah Baby)

    John Blaze (one of the few worthwhile tracks on the terrible posthumous album Endangered Species, a superb collabo with Nas, Method Man, Fat Joe, Jadakiss and Raekwon)
    Last edited by Simon; July 20th, 2019 at 1:11 PM.

  54. #54
    Donde esta la biblioteca Pablo Diablo's Avatar
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    100% is great.

  55. #55
    Simon
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    Tony Sunshine one of the great underrated hook merchants

  56. #56
    you either die a hero... Morrison's Avatar
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    seems every one of these gets a personal history lesson out of me.

    i already touched on it in my own album choice, but leading up to my teenage years, modern, mainstream music wasn't big on my radar, and mostly picked up through osmosis by my friends who paid more attention to it. with that said, the late 90's into the early 2000's were, outside of boy bands and pop girl acts, dominated by a lot of hip-hop, so i guess it's not a huge surprise that hip-hop was the one genre that ended up breaking through, probably thanks to sheer volume, in getting me to pay more attention to what was playing on MTV and muchmusic. the very first CD of my own i ever got was the men in black soundtrack, because of how much i loved the film, the title track, and will smith, in general. this lead to picking up big willie style and being hyped for willennium dropping. so i wasn't unfamiliar with the genre, but harder rap was definitely not something i had a ton of experience with or opportunity to listen to. heading into the new willennium, i was a bit more independent and immersed in mainstream pop culture for the first time. or, i guess i should say pop culture that was very clearly geared for a demographic years older than what i was, contributing to the aura of it all, that feeling of listening to something that was more mature, that according to some news reports i wasn't supposed to be listening to, and on april 11th, 2000 it really kicked off when 'big pimpin' and 'country grammar' were both released. a week later, 'party up' by dmx gets released. those songs absolutely dominated my summer that year, with dre's 'the next episode' and mystikal's 'shake ya ass' joining it when they dropped in july. it was an insane crash course into what the genre was, and i played the albums i bought over and over and over. i bought stankonia cause of 'B.O.B.' in september. december rolls around and while watching TRL one day i'm introduced to the wu-tang clan debuting the video for 'gravel pit.'

    over the next couple years, i start to shy away from hip-hop as i start to discover a lot of classic rock and get fully immersed in that, though sometime in probably 2004, for reasons i don't entirely remember, i'm in FYE and decide to buy 36 chambers, i guess remembering how much i enjoyed the W, and mos def & talib kweli are black star. to say these two purchases were life-altering isn't as much hyperbole as you may think. these two albums helped to blow the doors off whatever block was in place that was keeping me from exploring hip-hop more and doing a deep dive, showing me points along the spectrum of what the genre could be. from here i found a tribe called quest, biggie, jay z, tupac, nas, jurassic 5, jedi mind tricks, the roots, and busta rhymes. much like with discovering old classic rock, i reveled in all this 'new' music to listen to. at some point, the sous chef i worked under, who was very much like a big brother to me, brought in his huge binder of CD's, mostly filled with hip-hop, and let me take it home and burn all the albums to my computer. i was in heaven. gang starr, jeru the damaja, EPMD, mobb deep, big L, redman, keith murray, craig mack, gravediggaz, and the list goes on. big pun was part of this collection, but i didn't pay much attention to him until my sous chef had me listen to 'twinz' and i heard the 'little italy' line that made me go 'whoa' that i perked up and gave him a closer look.

    i'm a sucker for this kind of rap album. simple, uncomplicated beats and execution based flows and word play; gritty and funky. there's a lot of variety in production but is overall cohesive as a album mainly of deep street beats, with a lot of capable cameo verses by artists in other groups i love. i'm actually surprised how much i still enjoy this, as it's been awhile since i've listened to it as a whole instead of just a track or two when the mood strikes. i assumed it wouldn't hold up. admittedly, i've skipped every single skit, which i have to assume has helped tremendously, taking the album from 24 tracks to a much tighter 16. that's one thing a lot of older hip-hop albums have going against them so many years later; big on skits and interludes that either haven't aged well or just drag on too long. listening to pun instructing a girl to eat another girl's pussy is absolute insanity and i don't know what made people think listeners would want to listen to that shit; i feel retroactively embarrassed for him hearing it. with that said, there's not a lot of cringey material or content within the songs, which helps keep it from feeling terribly dated. i tried listening to the slim shady LP a couple months ago and there was a lot of wince-worthy shit throughout it.

    favorite track is 'twinz,' since it was the first i ever heard and liked(i had definitely heard 'still not a player' years earlier but i hated it at the time). 'boomerang' is fantastic, absolutely amazing beat. 'you ain't a killer' is another great beat, and 'beware' with the shook ones sample is another standout, and pun's delivery and lyrics are on point for both.

    the other thing my sous chef shared with me about big pun, that i now share with all of you, is the fat guy throat snort and wheezy breathing pun does throughout the entire album, that once you hear the first time, you can never not hear. listen to that skit with funk flex; anytime flex is talking all i can hear anymore is pun's insane breathing underneath him. and during stretches of lines where he has to take a breath in the middle, the throat snort sticks out so bad. it doesn't ruin anything, but it's definitely just become an active part of his songs for me now.

  57. #57
    I'm always watching you.. MMH's Avatar
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    Just listening to this now.

    I imagine this is going to be a bit of a struggle for me as I am not really a rap guy. I certainly don't hate rap or anything I just struggle to say anything of note about it. As I have mentioned already I am not really into lyrics as much as tunes so a lot of rap is wasted on me as they tend to tell more stories in their lyrics.

    Well here we go... the intro was rubbish, everything I was dreading but its only an intro I guess....

    Track 2, Beware, Yeah fine. Pretty much like every other rap song I have heard, it churns along fine without doing anything of note.

    Bloody hell, 24 tracks?

    Super Lyrical, was this his big song or something? It sounds familiar. Then again I suppose a lot of rap songs do with their samples and all that. This one is alright. Decent beat to it and I sound so white right now (which is weird because I'm not..)

    Sadly I can not make out any of the words.

    Another skit for track four. I don't like this type of thing.

    Still Not a Player, best one so far. To be fair this album is fairly diverse so far. Who the fuck is Joe?

    Some random JRPG music for Intermission. Ok then.

    Love the sample (is that the term? I have no idea) in Dream Shatterer. Gives it a moody feel. Yeah don't mind this one at all actually.

    Punish Me is a bit generic. I really don't like songs that have a girl singing nicely and a bloke rapping over it all. It's probably the most played out type of song these days, to be there this was done before every chart song seemed to follow the same pattern. It's fine if you like that kind of thing. Pretty unoffensive stuff.

    Another sweary skit, with guns, n bombs and shouting. Meh. Two of them actually with You Ain't a Killer in the middle of it. Again some nice music in the background but I can't grasp the lyrics very well so it does nothing of note for me.

    Caribbean Connection...well this sounds familiar....I suppose it would be with Wyclef Jean involved. It was OK.

    Is Fat Joe related to regular sized Joe from Still Not a Player? Glamour Life, meh.

    The Title track is up next, this has got to be good right? Well not really, good music that sounds a bit epic but it just goes on.

    I'm Not a Player also sounds familiar, I assume this one charted at some point? One of the more mellow songs on the album. Again it's fine.

    Twinz is pretty generic, it kind of sounds (and looks judging by the video) like what a pisstake of a rap song would be. It's OK but nothing new.

    All the songs are merging into one now. You Came Up is kind of funky.

    I actually like Busta Rhymes so I am hoping the last song Parental Discretion does something for me. Sadly it did not and it was a really weird way to end an album as it just peters out.

    So yeah, to summize, it was OK, certainly better than I was expecting but it did not really do anything for me or changed my mind regarding rap music. It is listenable to and I can't call it shit because it's not, it is just an acquired taste. I will say that the album is quite diverse in some ways but not in enough ways for me to like it as such. I don't hate it either, it's just "there".

  58. #58
    Defiance is a four letter
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    Striking that The Dream Shatterer is standing out to those of us who aren't necessarily big rap fans, but the aficionados of the genre aren't name dropping it at all.

  59. #59
    1-800-Call-My-Bluff Fro's Avatar
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    Dream Shatterer is one of the strongest tracks on the album for sure.

  60. #60
    KIKI MUTEMBE BBF's Avatar
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    I didn't even bother with the skits tbh.

    I really liked Beware and it'll be going on my pumped up playlist as it absolutely BANGS. 'Flawless victory, you n can't do shit to me, physically, lyrically, hypothetically, realistically.' MMMMMMMM BANGS.

    Super Lyrical. Meh. Nothing stood out.

    Still Not A Player is all about Joe. Loved him here, the ending in particular was great. Enjoyed this one the most I think.

    The Dream Shatterer is the best song lyrically for me.

    I'm pure adrenaline, uncut, straight to your gut, medicine
    Raw cure for pain I coat your brain like polyurethane
    Simple and plain, I'll explain it in layman terms
    If you came to learn how to make fire, I'm-a make it burn!

    Excellent stuff.

    Unfortunately it all nose dives for me here, at least until Tres Leches with everything inbetween being totally forgettable. Tres Leches is a good little blast though, The beat bangs along and Pun kills it on the mic again for me. Fast Money and Parental Discretion are ok but nothing special, it might be the worst I've ever heard Busta tbh.

    I've added a few tracks to the rotation and I enjoyed it overall, being a fan of 90s rap and hip hop. I think the most interesting thing is how much more we should've got out of Pun before he died. I get the impression he would've changed WITH the game, rather than changed the game itself though.

  61. #61
    Simon
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    Quote Originally Posted by JP View Post
    Striking that The Dream Shatterer is standing out to those of us who aren't necessarily big rap fans, but the aficionados of the genre aren't name dropping it at all.
    I mentioned it! Incredible hardcore track, those strings on the sample are like something out of a horror film.

  62. #62
    Simon
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBF View Post
    I didn't even bother with the skits tbh.

    I really liked Beware and it'll be going on my pumped up playlist as it absolutely BANGS. 'Flawless victory, you n can't do shit to me, physically, lyrically, hypothetically, realistically.' MMMMMMMM BANGS.

    Super Lyrical. Meh. Nothing stood out.

    Still Not A Player is all about Joe. Loved him here, the ending in particular was great. Enjoyed this one the most I think.

    The Dream Shatterer is the best song lyrically for me.

    I'm pure adrenaline, uncut, straight to your gut, medicine
    Raw cure for pain I coat your brain like polyurethane
    Simple and plain, I'll explain it in layman terms
    If you came to learn how to make fire, I'm-a make it burn!

    Excellent stuff.

    Unfortunately it all nose dives for me here, at least until Tres Leches with everything inbetween being totally forgettable. Tres Leches is a good little blast though, The beat bangs along and Pun kills it on the mic again for me. Fast Money and Parental Discretion are ok but nothing special, it might be the worst I've ever heard Busta tbh.

    I've added a few tracks to the rotation and I enjoyed it overall, being a fan of 90s rap and hip hop. I think the most interesting thing is how much more we should've got out of Pun before he died. I get the impression he would've changed WITH the game, rather than changed the game itself though.
    The Big triumvirate (Pun, L and Biggie) would all have gone down as legends IMO if they hadn't died. Biggie was so good he made it there anyway but all three of them had insane talent. Then again Nas and Eminem are IMO the most talented of the lot and both of them managed to go a decade or more without a really great album so maybe there is just a finite amount of greatness available in a rapper's career. Jay-Z is just about the only legend with a huge back catalogue that doesn't peter away to nothing. I mean I don't think any of his new stuff is a patch on Reasonable Doubt or The Black Album but it is still good for the most part.

  63. #63
    World Champion Donald's Avatar
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    I'm not really a hip hop fan. I like some, but most of it isn't for me. This Big Pun album is included in the not for me pile. Only song that stood out to me was Still Not A Player, and that's only because I've heard it before. I kept it on and listened to the end, however, so it wasn't a total bust for me. I'm just likely to never listen to this album again. I dug the beats a lot, but the rapping, the singing, and the skits did nothing for me. I wonder if there's an instrumental version available? I'll give this a rating of 3/10.

  64. #64
    the Omniscient Grimario's Avatar
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    The skits are absolute garbage but for a style of music I have no real interest in, the rest of it wasn't bad, just not something I would go and listen to of my own volition. The whole album sounded kind of familiar without being something I had heard before with the exception of I'm Not a Player.

  65. #65
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    I've listened to this quite a bit more. I'm not sure I'm a "fan", but I can appreciate the music more on continued listening.

    It's probably bias from everyone's reviews tricking me.

  66. #66
    Turning back time Kdestiny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canuck View Post
    I've listened to this quite a bit more. I'm not sure I'm a "fan", but I can appreciate the music more on continued listening.

    It's probably bias from everyone's reviews tricking me.
    This is another one where I can appreciate it being very good for what it is. It's just not my style of music and I couldn't really get into it

  67. #67
    Window Licker MikeHunt's Avatar
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    Bit late on this sorry.

    A belter of an album has been up bear he top of my hip-hop albums for a long time. I love the beats, it's all about the beats with Big Pun for me. The skits are shite as everyone else has said but I honestly feel that way about every hip hop skit.

    Still not a player is an absolute banger, saw static selekta drop it a couple of years ago at a DJ set and it was so warmly received and holds a place close to my heart for that alone.

    Mikehunt owns this album!

  68. #68
    Donde esta la biblioteca Pablo Diablo's Avatar
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    Continuing my catch-up with this.

    The first of the albums that I had previously heard, however I hadn't heard it in entirety since I was a young so it was interesting to listen to again. When I first listened to this I was probably 12 or 13. To this day I still prefer the west coast beats of the time to the east coast beats of the time and re-listening to this now hasn't changed my mind on that. I think I do have more of an appreciation for his flow though. I still don't like the album or Big Pun as a whole but I have gotten a better appreciation for songs like Dream Shatterer and Tres Leches. Still Not a Player is the track you'll still hear the most and for good reason, that song is an absolute legendary track. Although how Still not a player shows up on the album before I'm not a player seems like poor decision making. Outside of that though the album won't be joining my heavy rotation but it was good to be "forced" to go back to listen to something that I haven't since I was a kid.

  69. #69
    Legend Mik's Avatar
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    I actually didn't mind this album. I had a mate that used to be big into rap when we were at college and he was the only one of us with a car, so while I never went out of my way to listen to it, I immersed a lot in through him, I had an ex girlfriend who listened to a lot of this era of rap too. I skipped over the skits which were cringe as fuck, but the songs, the lyrics, the beats, they are all fine. Nothing has really stuck out to me to be honest, I can't understand most of what he's saying and a lot of it all sounds the same, but could happily sit with it on in the background.

  70. #70
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    Boomerang is awesome, I listen to it every day now.

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