what is hypocritical in that statement? you cant be the best women's wrestler in history unless youre holding the title your whole career? or do you have to be holding the title at the moment you make that claim?Originally Posted by Psycho666Soldier
I was just responding to the point. I assume Donald was talking about from a kayfabe perspective. In that sense, she is being hypocritical. It's like the argument from that short gimmick where Cesaro would claim to be the best wrestling in the ring, and people would say it has little effect if he's never winning when it matters. I don't really subscribe to that thought, because even the best of all time has a day where they are bested. But if you look at it from that perspective, then what she was saying just furthers her role as a heel.
In actuality, I think she actually has a compelling argument.
I literally just read this on the main page and someone had a good point about how it would basically be the 2 women who hold the most titles (I think 8 for Trish, 9 for Charlotte), seeing who the best really is. Be like The Rock coming back and putting over Cena at Mania 29 for example. Could be a good match. Charlotte's barely delivered a shit performance and Trish can be carried for sure.I guess that could be a match, but why? They really have nothing better for Charlotte to do?
I think hypocrite is the wrong word here.
I guess ironic might be better....It's ironic that she calls herself the best ever but isn't champion?
Like, it's ironic that she considers herself the best when she's not even ranked #1? But then she has the rebuttal of, just because you are the champion doesn't mean you are the best. I love it.
It's not ironic, it's arrogance. Which fits her character perfectly.
Charlotte is the best all round performer on the entire roster. She has it all.
disagree. I think to the super casual fan she sounds robotic/rehearsed on the mic. Yeah she can do a decent promo in terms of content but I also think her delivery on the mic is lacking
She has come down a few pegs since she's been dating Andrade.
Her current hairstyle doesn't do her any favors. She's been missing in action pretty much since Mania - I don't think they even acknowleged this or attempted to explain it.
So I can agree that she isn't perfect - and just about any of today's wrestlers sound overly rehearsed on the mic. But she's still the best all around performer on the entire roster.
@PurePlayer, you disagree with this - so who would you say is a better all around performer than Charlotte? Everyone else has bigger flaws than having only an "acceptable" mic delivery now and then. The best talker in the business for the past several years is Paul Heyman, and even he will have an occasional night when he only hits a double instead of a home run.
Personally I think it’s refreshing Charlotte hasn’t been around so much lately. She was dominating pretty much everything in the wonen’s division up until Mania and now others have been given a chance to step up.
AJ Styles
Drew McIntyre
The Miz
Sami Zayn
Samoa Joe
Aleister Black
Ali
Big E
Kofi Kingston
Xavier Woods
Daniel Bryan
Kevin Owens
Randy Orton
Roman Reigns
No Braun Donald?
Daniel Bryan
Kevin Owens
AJ Styles
Sami Zayn
Samoa Joe
Kofi Kingston
Miz
Drew McIntyre
There are others on the roster on her level as well like Randy Orton, Rollins, Wyatt, Reigns, Sasha Banks, Becky (pre 2019). I just don't see how anyone can say she is the best all around performer on the roster when the whole package is included.
Of course but I'd get accused of having a fanboy crush or something.
And that's it, man if you put Braun in 10 matches on a PPV I'd be one happy camper. Can't get over it. What a talent.
If you said Corbin then yes but Braun’s great all around. He’s got the look, he can brawl, he can fly, he can probably dance too and play a good elf.
I like Corbin, I think he's a solid talent, but he's been booked as a cowardly heel and that's hurt him more than anything. I know most heels need to cheat to win, but Corbin never, ever looks like he has a chance at winning the big gold.
I thought she referred to herself as the best on the women's roster. I am a chauvinist pig and I will admit to still viewing the women differently than the men. She is still leaps ahead of Becky in the ring, and miles ahead of Sasha both in the ring and on the mic.
Comparing her to Randy Orton on the men's side is probably appropriate.
I'd agree that when we include the men, there are some, but there aren't that many who are better than she is.
Daniel Bryan
Owens
AJ Styles
Sami Zayn
Roman Reigns
Kofi
I disagree about the others you are listing ahead of her.
Samoa Joe probably should be ahead of her, talent wise. But he seems too content to be used as the JTTS
Miz - I am a huge Miz fan but his in-ring work sometimes lacks credibility. He's often around for very good matches and good storylines, but we don't get the Wow factor like Charlotte can bring. While he's still growing into his current face role, many think he's Miz-cast since he was so awesome as a heel.
Rollins - I think he is just overpushed. The complaints about Charlotte's delivery being robotic apply much more to Rollins.
Wyatt - probably too early to tell on him. I wasn't a fan of his rambling Bray character's promos and his in-ring work is only A- to Charlotte's A+. Charlotte can carry others to get a better match out of them like very few can.
Drew - I don't see how anyone can compare him to being above Charlotte's overall level. He is only okay in the ring, but his promos are generally terrible, forced, and his thick accent makes them unintelligible. The fact that he's more than happy to be a second banana to a part-time wrestler in Shane really shows what he thinks his overall value is.
How does Joe seem to be content? He delivers great promos and is awesome in the ring. Him losing all the time is not a reflection of being content
This is just such bullshit.
Super casual fans do not analyze wrestling shows like the super hardcore fans do.
It's not analyzing anything. All you have to do is listen. The hardcore fans are more likely to think oh that's Charlotte that's just how she is.
I even remember reading that case study they ran recently. It was posted in one of these threads. those are people that haven't even watched wrestling
After Monday, I assume we're getting
- OC versus Usos
- Reigns versus Joe
- McIntyre versus Alexander
or
- Reigns and Alexander versus Joe and McIntyre (seems like a big step down in terms of what could have been for McIntyre)
No way they just do Reigns vs Joe. They want Drew mixed in with everything Roman does. I don't get it but somebody backstage thinks it's the key to getting Drew over.
The key to getting Drew McIntyre over is to not have him lose all the time.
And not have him appear as a lackey to someone else like Shane or Dolph. They were heading in the right direction after he pushed Dolph aside, but they did nothing with it except feed him to Roman and Taker and now Kevin Owens.
Drew needs a win.
You got that right, he has the size, look, and talent to be a really intimidating heel. He should be dominant in the ring, and have whoever he's facing have that "How am I supposed to beat this guy" look on their face. Instead everyone wins so easily. It's ridiculous. I mean, a loss here and there, sure everyone loses, but he should be winning. I fully expected Elias to come down and cause a DQ in the McIntyre/Owens match, but I guess they want Owens to look strong going into the PPV. Does McIntyre even have a match?
McIntyre's not booked yet.
He needs a babyface run...
The sad thing is I could totally see the WWE going "We need to make Owens look strong going into his match with Shane". That's how stupid the WWE creative can be at times. Kind of sad Bischoff isn't really going to be part of creative, I was excited to see what he was going to contribute. Maybe he still will contribute on the creative side of things, idk.
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say Kevin Owens loses at SummerSlam, but they find a way to keep him on board.
With it being in Canada, I doubt all three of Owens, Nattie, and Stratus losing. I could see two of them, certainly one, but I think Owens is probably being shined up to eventually become the champ of Smackdown. Eventually beating the person who beats Kofi.
Nattie and Trish are for sure losing. I know more often than not when we think this way something like Nattie winning the title from The Man happens. But I don't see a reason to have Trish win unless it's to do something bigger after the fact. I still don't see it.
KO losing would be odd. It's not GONE FROM SD, it's GONE FROM WWE. So ANOTHER hiatus would be pointless. And it make perfect sense to have KO win this. Shane and KO have been feuding on and off since the brand split, so we're talking 2-3 years. They banged it out at Mania last year in the tag-team match. The HIAC match was real good. Now we bring it all full circle and they're 1-1, this is the rubber match and without a doubt KO needs to win.
Am I crazy for thinking Orton could very well beat Kofi? It's the win that Kofi needs as his last big big win was Mania. But Orton has more accolades than pretty much anyone active today, 3rd behind Cena, and Triple H in (WWF/E) World championships. Kofi getting a clean win no doubt cements his legacy as a great talent.
Last edited by Nash Diesel; July 31st, 2019 at 1:44 PM.
You gotta look at Smackdown going to Fox in September, they're gonna want the title on the most recognizable name, I think Randy Orton and Brock Lesnar are the two most currently active names.
I certainly don't think it's out of bounds to think now is the time and Orton is the guy to beat Kofi. I think most people were going to be thrilled with Kofi being the champion up until Summerslam and then they shifted gears. That length shows that the reign ultimately wasn't in vain. The promo work by Orton the last two weeks has made the story much more compelling, but I'm not sure if it's to the point where it's time to pull the trigger. A win for Kofi certainly puts the rubber stamp on the validation of the title run for me. The initial Owens thing was rushed, Ziggler was a waste, Joe was kind of meh but Orton and the work over the last two weeks adds some more to the table for me.
It intertwines with Owens because I think the timeline relatively works where the person who beats Kofi is going to be primed to be taken down by Owens. I imagine Kofi will work his way to a rematch with Orton and then things can move to Owens so it still works. If Orton could keep this string of promo work going, something with Owens would likely be juicy for both of them when it comes to verbal jousting.
Did Fox say this?
I mean, when Smackdown went to USA they had Dean Ambrose as the WWE champion. He's not exactly the most recognizable name. I'm sure Fox wants to have recognizable names on the roster in general, not necessarily as champions. Kofi Kingston coming in as champion would be dope. You have the first African-born WWE champion who's part of an extremely entertaining group that will be on Fox every week.
Orton and Lesnar....People forget Orton's on a very reduced schedule and Lesnar is barely there. Fox might want to have the SD champ visible. But it's hard to say because I haven't heard anyone from Fox talking about who they're expecting their champion to be.
RKO v. The Stunner
And I have been shocked with Orton's mic work. He has always been hit or miss.
My track record at PPV predictions is terrible, but I think Orton could come out on top. I never expected Kofi to have been booked this strong since his Mania win.
I welcome Trish coming back, because as I recall, she retired as champ, and there really wasn't anyone even in her league when she left. Charlotte has since surpassed her and this "passing of the torch" should have happened a while back.
I don't think they would have given Owens the use of the stunner if they weren't serious about his push.
I wonder if Alexa Bliss was supposed to be beat Trish Stratus at Evolution as a "passing of the torch"? Then Bliss gets hurt, they question Trish's ability to do a singles match and it turned into a lump of coal on Christmas morning tag-team match.
I still think there's money in Trish and Lita as a team I just don't know if they want to bother working even a handful of dates this year into next.
Also, at this point, I'll be stunned if Miz/Dolph doesn't happen because it changes to Dolph/Goldberg. Question is, would you make that a total surprise or build it for one week?
If I'm the WWE, I'd go for the long game here. Survivor Series. Dolph's team of "new" guys and a co-captain team lead by Goldberg and HBK of legends.
Just my opinion. I have no insider knowledge of Fox and their interests. But what do I know, if I was booking WWE Braun would have the Universal and WWE championships and just dominate both brands. Kofi Kingston would never be in the main event in my WWEIt'd be Braun, Apollo Crews, Dana Brooke, Ricochet, AJ Styles, and Gangrel every week.
Dana Brooke?Just my opinion. I have no insider knowledge of Fox and their interests. But what do I know, if I was booking WWE Braun would have the Universal and WWE championships and just dominate both brands. Kofi Kingston would never be in the main event in my WWE
I 100% agree that Bran should be a World champion. I'll be honest, I don't like the crossover stuff it waters down the brand champions and the idea that one World champion doesn't exist because of that concept. IMO, they should have one World champion and it should be Braun Strowman.
He's got such potential to be the face of the company. You hear him in interviews? He's fucking great. He's a company man through and through. I think the only things holding him back are his frequent injuries, and also his deer in the headlights promos he does occasionally.
Could it be that Braun is just such a big dude that they don't want to get wrapped up in any stereotypical nonsense they already deal with? I mean I guess you have Cena, but he's just muscular he's also not 6'9" 350lbs. SHREDDED. So I don't know, even typing that out makes me think that the WWE more than likely have moved on from trying to manufacture a top guy so they won't even tease the idea of naturally over talents being the main vocal point.
Orton is such a boring champ, they are better off with Kofi and New Day. Brock has steadily become a nothing draw. New Day and Kofi are a better story heading into Fox. Honestly, if Rock shows up for a few weeks, it doesn't matter who the champ is. He will pop the ratings enough that the show will get a two to three month bye then it's Mania season where ratings always go up.
It would be odd to put the tag belts on Big E and Xavier and then have Kofi drop the WWE title so soon after. I think they'll all hang on to their gold for a bit longer.
They only just started the New Day having all the belts angle, it'd be severe dumbass if they broke that up in any way now. I'm almost certain Orton's just there to give the rub to Kofi so he can get over that hump of Orton "holding him back" which is a bit of a weird anfle in itself as Kofi basically had the upper hand on him nearly the whole time including eliminating Orton at Survivor Series which is Orton's specialty.
Also the way they've been booking Becky as of late, I'm cheering Nattie to tap her out.
Not that this is a problem because the card is getting extremely heavy but if there's not just a champions versus champions match between New Day and The OC, there's not a super clear path for either to have a match on the card (even more so for New Day).
The tag divisions really are in a state at the moment and Jimmy hasn't helped matters. They tend to book a couole of teams really strong (New Day/Usos and now New Day/OC) while the rest don't get much of a look in generally. There was the Revival but half of that feud was over Uso ass cream ffs.
Last edited by Badger; August 1st, 2019 at 2:29 PM.
The OC being tag champs made me forget New Day were also tag champs because of all the wild card nonsense going on.
Summerslam has been so rushed in terms of booking.....Barely 2 weeks to build up Charlotte-Trish which I get you don't really need 3-4 months but as iconic as Trish Stratus is, it would have been nice to get a recap of what she's accomplished and WHY she's considered one of the best of all time.
You're right @Nash Diesel, hard to believe that this fucking event is only a week away.
And nothing for Strowman, Roman, Joe, Bryan, Drew, Elias, Nakamura, nothing for all 3 sets of tag-team champions. I don't know about the CW champion, doesn't look like anything going on for him either. I imagine we're going to get something like Roman v. Daniel Bryan, Nakamura v. Ali for the IC title. I would maybe see The OC v. New Day but they'll probably get stuck on the prelims (woo hoo).
I'm not saying this card looks weak but it's just kind of thrown together for the most part.
My guess is we see Roman vs Joe or Bryan. Nakamura vs Ali and then Drew and Elias show up during the KO/Shane match.
Women's tag, cruiser, and maybe smackdown tag or raw tag on the pre show.
I would prefer Joe vs Roman with Bryan and Rowan helping Joe beating Roman and revealing he caused the accident from Smackdown. This way it gives Joe a win (finally) and lets Roman move on to the next thing.
I'm glad they're pushing Owens, Zayn, and Black ahead of the rest of the pack. I'm sure they've got something big planned for Roman. Luke Harper maybe?
You've got all this 24/7 title shit to factor in to. I imagine Braun is going to do something there, why else would they have him in a segment with Maria. While it would be fun to see Braun with the title and no body able to pin him for it, it just means he's stuck to the comedy character.
And he has great comedic timing so I'm not negative to comedy with Braun in spurts, but the 24/7 championship is some straight up comedy. It's like the Hardcore title when Crash won it and basically up until they ditched that 24/7 rule and gave it to the likes of RVD and The Undertaker did it have any real "serious" worth. This belt though, it's nothing but comedy and should be that way. If Braun gets it, let it just be for the short term because it will really affect him if they have any real plans of him main eventing.
They haven't figured out what they want to do with Braun, but they certainly don't seem to want him anywhere near the main event. So if they don't have him do comedy, what else is there for him to do? The tag division is only now recovering from his last time there. The more I think of it, he's destined to be Mark Henry v. 2.0 - they want him to pay a lot of dues and be a threat to win at any time, but stick him with a pregnant Mae Young.
SummerSlam is supposed to be one of the bigger annual events - so it makes no sense to me that so many top names have nothing planned only a week away
Man, can't he be Big Show 2.0??? lol.
I'm going to wait and see if there was anything more to the Maria thing. Seemed like just some random segment where someone backstage thought it would be interesting if Maria bumped into a top guy and Braun was the unlucky pick lol.
Summerslam imo is #2 out of the big 4. You're 100% right....Zero sense having so many top names off the card that will get shoehorned into something mediocre. But these things are going 4-5 hours just on the main card I could see it getting stacked up for sure. I mean for fuck's sake people think Goldberg is going to replace The Miz so they're just doing shit to do shit.
The similarities are closer to Mark Henry because they booked him so poorly for most of his career, and both were strongmen competitors. Strowman is hugely over and the crowd pops for him every time - yet Vince doesn't seem to want to put him in a match.
I wouldn't mind it if Dolph came out for his match first, then Miz came out and said he's sorry to disappoint the crowd, but due to a complication caused by WWE's doctors or his daughter gave him pink eye or something really minor, or lawyers or whatever, the paperwork didn't get cleared in time so he's gonna have to wait to face Ziggler - but he found someone to replace him - someone Ziggler's been talking about lately - and Goldberg's music hits - who comes out to jacknife squash Ziggler etc. Ziggler can make Goldberg look great again in 30 seconds, the crowd would pop enormously, and it could highlight Miz's mic skills.
See, I lean more toward Big Show because Mark Henry was basically a midcarder for the first 14-15 years in the company. At least Strowman with what a year, was already a super over character feuding with the likes of Roman Reigns and getting World title shots. Mark Henry imo was never as over as Strowman this early on. So it's hard to say Strowman has been booked so poorly when he's main evented several ppvs, had several World title shots, big feuds, with minimal dips out of the main event scene.
Mark Henry only wishes he was booked with guys like The Rock and Austin main eventing ppvs and challenging for the title as opposed to having segments with Mae Young, a trans hooker, and a forgettable stint with a belt that nobody cared about (Euro).
I think for the ppv if Goldberg showed up, squashed Ziggler, and that was it for them....Shit it would be cool but it screams Jericho-Goldberg doesn't it? That was literally what happened in WCW. Jericho calling out Goldberg for several weeks and Goldberg just spears him into oblivion and that was it lol. No match, just a quick burial and we're good
It doesn't scream of being the best utilization of Goldberg but I would have to say they've done enough to plan the seeds for it with Ziggler. It's going to be a long ass card and you need a squash and you need something that's going to be a nice spark. I think if you go unannounced and Goldberg is Miz's "replacement", I think you accomplish both of those goals with this idea.
Not a fan of the Goldberg rumor if it happens. I'd rather see Miz-Dolph (or anyone-Dolph) and save Goldberg for Royal Rumble, a surprise entrant who eliminates Dolph then gets eliminated by him... because you know, rules and shit. Then this leads to a Mania match. This just feels too rushed.
Dragging it out to Mania is a LONG build for those involved.
It could involve other legends during that time - or August through September it's he and the Miz, and have guys pop up from October into January. Matches or not, doesn't matter, Ziggler would make it work, embarrass any of them and then G appears. I just don't think it really does much right now. What's gonna happen is probably a 20 second squash match for what?
Again this reminds me so much of the 1998 angle with Jericho calling out Goldberg and then all it lead to was Goldberg spearing Jericho and that was it. 5 years later they had a match in WWE but that's really it. Can Ziggler make it work? I don't know if he can make it work for the next 9 months. I fantasy booked an idea where this could lead to a Ziggler-lead team at Survivor Series v. a legends team lead by Goldberg and HBK. Survivor Series at times has struggled over the last 10 years or so, this might help a great deal.
It's all relative, but I imagine it's a tricky situation to presume you can get 2-3 additional people who can get physically cleared to compete and they're people of the level of Goldberg and HBK. I guess the second condition isn't as important but the first is essential or what's the point?
Why do they need to be at the same level as Goldberg and HBK? There are plenty of guys who are in their late 40's early 50's who could come in. I mean, if KURT ANGLE of all people was cleared by WWE doctors, that has to leave the door open. I mean, right now you could insert Triple H. X-Pac can still go. Road Dogg can still go. So Goldberg and DX on one side (how fucking weird is that?) and then Dolph and his squad on the other....Maybe get Sting in the mix if he can/wants idk.
If it leads to Ziggler winning, I'm all for it. I'd love a story of Ziggler putting legends out to pasture, only to have the Undertaker stop him at WrestleMania. I think Godlberg at SummerSlam, HBK at the Rumble, and Undertaker at WrestleMania.
Ziggler and Miz is like a make or break for them win streak. Miz has his TV show to fall back on and Ziggler needs the win more after almost losing every match since coming so "IT SHOULD BE HIM!"
If they’re not, I could see those two not being as thrilled with the idea and just passing. Unless the money is absurd, I presume this has to be something of creative interest to them otherwise they wouldn’t be bothered or we would see them more regularly than we see them currently. I believe Waltman commented in the last week or two and said he’s done wrestling, reports suggest Sting is a no-go as a person who can get cleared. The other two you mentioned in DX are fine, I guess, but what are we really going for? Are they just beating these heels? No? Then they’ve got a lot of work to do to all of the sudden decide to make a perennial loser and crybaby this new legend killer.
I just think the premise has very little margin for error in terms of execution and long-term payoff. The Survivor Series idea is ambitious but I don’t really see who benefits from it all. It’s simpler and cleaner just to get the squash done at Summerslam and move on.
Last edited by BGMaverick; August 2nd, 2019 at 4:01 PM.
Out of those choices, X-Pac is the only one who I'd like back. Shame if not according to his comment, couldn't give much of a crap about the rest.
It's a long term payoff if it draws fans in and people become fans of the "full timers".
I don't see any signs of believing they have the mindset of wanting to do that. You have people like Waltman questioning their usage at the Reunion and wondering how that helps the "full timers" so they have those within to doubt that mindset as well.
And maybe it wasn't clear to Waltman himself that the intention of the Reunion wasn't supposed to be a gigantic passing of the torch picnic.
I said this before but it's like when a local band gets noticed by opening up for an established mainstream band. If you never went to check out the band who's been around 25 years, you might not have ever discovered this "new" band. And now you're a fan.
I don't really know what people expected out of that Reunion show. It's borderline annoying how difficult it is for some wrestling fans to comprehend that show wasn't anything more than a feel good episode with multiple intentions, not just "Oh did Ricochet get a big enough rub walking by Ric Flair"
I understand the premise of the reunion show. You can say it's borderline annoying how difficult it is for some not to see your perspective on it but it can easily be stated the other way. For that company, in the state its in, just running a one-off show like that seems like a pretty simple-minded thought, without thinking of trying to put together plans for longer than a week or two. Either that, or they're not very capable of doing so. That seems to undercut their ability to avoid landmines in the future because you didn't take opportunities to build when it really shouldn't be that hard.
To me, the three pressure points for the company are TV ratings, house show numbers, and network numbers. Other stuff is nice to have (good merch numbers, TV rights overseas, Saudi show etc. etc.), but those three things are pretty much the lifeblood of the company now. Retroactively, it seems they've got themselves a cushion with the first but nothing is suggesting that the other two are okay or set to improve.
Personally I just feel like there are plenty of other opportunities during the year for them to focus on building the next wave of superstars, increasing house shows, merch revenue, etc.
We should be able to get a show like Raw Reunion where it's not met with fans going "Well, what did this do for Heavy Machinery???" To me, that mentality is bred by dirt sheets. If you can't appreciate a show like Raw Reunion or any of the very very very few celebration episodes we get maybe 2-3 times every 5 years...then I don't know what to tell those fans. Maybe stop trying to play armchair WWE business exec and watch the product.
Because here's the thing....If you're already watching then it doesn't matter if it makes sense for DX and the OC to throw down when a year or 2 prior they were celebrating at Hammerstein Ballroom. Or that Ricochet should have been used instead of Seth Rollins.
Define “plenty” because I think at least half of the year is already a wash. They lose out between April and June because audiences are funneled toward the NBA. They suffered a downward trend, for them, and they’re already looking at ways to rectify it. Then you’re out between September to January for the NFL.
I’m not saying it’s a dumb idea to just enjoy a reunion show for what it is, but it’s not exactly smart to use that opportunity to simply attempt building things forward when the most sets of eyes are on your product. Going into that opportunity just to just celebrate the time for it is fine but it’s not the best allocation of resources in my opinion. Why are commercial fees at a premium during the Super Bowl? Eyeballs are there and you’re looking to capture an audience with your product. Some do nostalgic stuff but it’s not like WWE can trot these older acts out all the time.
The thing you’re mentioning to me at the end is a disconnect you’re talking about people already watching. That’s not the point USA or WWE or anyone involved is looking at a reunion. They’re not looking for the people already watching. It’s a special event so it’s trying to attract more eyeballs. It did. So they’re looking at those new eyes and they just said: remember this cool stuff? Here’s older versions of it. They got their fill and they’re probably not staying around because you’re not really giving them a reason to do so.
Plenty as in they have 52 Raw's a year, 1 show out of 52 not solely based on building talent isn't going to kill anyone.
Did you watch the show? They did have some segments that weren't solely about hoisting up the past on our shoulders and parading them around. I'm understanding they didn't do enough mingling for some fans' taste. I mean, someone on here felt that Owens should have Stunner'd Austin to help Owens get more over......
I think you misunderstood what I meant at the end. Which is funny because my whole point has been this......You're already watching so don't worry about other fans. The show, again, wasn't solely put together to get over the newer talent. It was put together to celebrate, to give the current viewing audience something cool, to lure in fans who might have stopped or never watched and hope some of them stick around and continue to watch the WWE in some fashion whether that's the Network, Raw/Smackdown, ppv, etc.
I’d say you’ve already lost 30 percent of the 52 because the numbers always flounder during the NFL.
I think it should be fairly obvious that I did watch the show. It’s not like I’m overly negative on everything they do. There’s a relatively healthy amount of stuff on the main roster that I see that is good or at the worst shows promise.
Your last point expresses how they failed to me. You talked about 52 weeks and I expressed half of the year (30 percent earlier in his post in reference to just football) as lost time. This specific week was a prime week. No football, no NBA, a pretty dead time in sports so the audience was there and the numbers proved that to be true. I don’t think they hit those people over the head about the Network or their PPV (a major one) that was coming in a couple of weeks. If we took out the putting over new stars angle, I’m not sure there’s a viable case to be made that they really did a lot to put over their Network that night. Same, to much lower degrees, for Smackdown, the following Raw, and Summerslam.
So you outlined three things as targets: celebrate, current viewers, lapsed viewers. I don’t think they really did much to attract the third group outside of that one week. If they are hoping to lure people to stay, which you said is one of the desired goals, I don’t really know how they put their best foot forward.
I’ve seen at least three different segments that have happened since that would have made more sense to air on that episode: Dolph/HBK, Lesnar/Rollins attack, and Charlotte/Trish. That’s not about putting people over in that moment but that’s about putting moments over and to varying degrees, those are impactful moments and ones where you want to see what happens next. Sure, there’s logistical issues that probably don’t make it viable to have all three of those happen within the same episode. That said, I imagine we’d be saying that was a heck of an episode if all three happened within the same show...especially if it was when the most eyes were watching.
I never expected the reunion to be anything more than the novelty of seeing current talent interact with older wrestlers/legends. As far as I know, the whole thing was done simply to boost ratings before the investor call that Thurs. However, I did find the ending odd since the Kilque/NWO/Wolfpac passed the torch to the Club at the RAW 25th Anniversary episode only to apparently take the torch back at the Reunion. Yeah, continuity sucks in wrestling, but this was an especially egregious example.
Passing the torch doesn't mean you're homeboys. To me that shit last year was some shit they probably sat down and went "The super smarks would nut themselves if the OG's interacted with the new kids" I didn't look at it as "We're going to be tight FOREVER!" AJ Styles wasn't even part of that shit. Not to mention everyone was a babyface at Raw 25 that was in that ring.
Nash wasn't there last year and everyone was buddy, buddy with the Club. He shows up at the reunion and now they've got issues with them. Hmmm
God damn right. Anderson's lucky he has a hot asian wife or he would've been dropped much quicker.Nash wasn't there last year and everyone was buddy, buddy with the Club. He shows up at the reunion and now they've got issues with them. Hmmm
Having a huge SummerSlam bash on Sunday. Pool, booze, bonfire and yard games. I got chicken, burgers, dogs and ribs. My wife borrowed a projector today from one of her friends and is positive she can link everything up to watch outside. If that works and I can watch SS floating around my pool then I'd be super happy. Going to be a party either way.
This is Sunday?! Shit, I have plans. Oh well, this is the least excited I have been for SummerSlam in a long time. This is super early for this PPV
Yeah, not even considering watching this live. I'll stay away from spoilers and watch on Monday night.
My son has now stopped watching entirely, so depending on how the next few months go, I may cancel my Network subscription shortly. In the UK, it's going to be far cheaper to give AEW a try.
Not seen Raw or Smackdown for months, barring the reunion Raw, and I don't think there is one match that I'm particularly bothered about. And this is SummerSlam, ffs.
Bloody hell Murphy its ten notes a month for basically the entire library.
Once the audience stops caring about who wins and who loses, the whole point of the programming stops. That's where we're at now outside of Wrestlemania. At 'Mania, it matters, because it's built to matter. Every other PPV, if your favourite loses you know there will be at least 2 rematches for them to win. Or if they win, you know they're losing on Raw. Nobody gets any monentum.
I have the entire library on DVD/Blu ray. Up to like 2015. If I didn't, I wouldn't even consider cancelling.
Got to make some cut backs, Pete. Wife just been made redundant, though I know she'll be fine, and I already pay out for Sky Sports, Netflix etc etc. And a son who is costing more and more. Only 10 a month, but add that to 17 saved with Sky and 17 saved on my mobile phone and it all adds up. That and bills and a mortgage. Every penny helps!
Fair play, Sorry to hear of the missus' troubles. On a tangent, BT Sport getting the tv may well be the death knell for a lot of people I imagine, Looked at it and think its like 36 quid a month through a sky box fuck that.
Cheers mate, but I know she'll be fine. She's a star.
Yeah, I can log in to BT Sport via my mother in law's log in. But I can't record stuff. I assume their on-demand section will be ok for Raw and Smackdown, should I want to watch it at any point. Wasn't with Sky though. For some reason, via the app, you can't watch Raw or Smackdown. Last I tried, anyway.
If I had to give up one, I'd give up Netflix over WWE Network to be fair. Best of luck.
My son is constantly watching Horrid Henry though.
There's far more on Netflix that I watch than I do on the Network. And I pay for the cheapest Netflix subscription, which is £5.99.
I'm 18 WCW PPVs away from finishing those. Once I've done that, all I use the Network for is current PPVs. Still a bargain, obviously, but only 'Mania feels 'must see' these days.
I don't know what it says to their general level of a storytelling but they almost had another PPV's worth of stories they decided to cool off, wrap up, or initiate that won't be on the card:
- Tag titles, all three of them
- Nakamura and Ali
- McIntyre and Alexander
- Black and Zayn
- Andrade and Mysterio
- Reigns' attacker is probably just going to be a segment on the show and presumably won't lead to an impromptu match on the card.
Not really a point to express negative or positive assessing, but just an interesting observation.
Anyone elder see it's odd not a single tag match on the card? Maybe Roman and Joe vs Bryan and Rowan somehow gets on card
They haven't announced a pre-show yet, have they? They seem to like putting the Uso's on the pre-show, so them vs. the OC might happen there.
They just gave the women's tag match away.
I think I'd rather see Roman vs. DB/Rowan be a segment and not a match, where Joe comes in for a save - setting up something later.
In the past, I thought they liked having a multi-man match on the big PPV events, which would get a lot of guys on the card. The fact they haven't set something like this up, makes it more noticeable how many guys/ladies are not being used here.
I've honestly seen zero that would indicate the OC v. The Usos. If anything it's going to be New Day v. The OC.
You're right - I should have said either the Uso's or the OC might get a spot on the pre-show against who knows. The New Day might get to come in to celebrate Kofi's win (which I understand should be expected because Randy Orton has not signed a new contract). The OC might get to celebrate and/or interfere to help AJ Styles.
Since the Miz was replaced by Goldberg, I am wondering if Miz gets completely left off the card, or if he'll be around for something else. I'd like to see him interview the Firefly Fun House version of Bray Wyatt after the Fiend defeats Balor.
They did jump The Usos two weeks ago which ultimately led to the final segment. The Usos were absent from this week’s show all together. Considering they played out New Day and The O.C. in full for both episodes this week, it could be done and The Usos stuff was just planting seeds for after the PPV. I guess all options are really in play.
I’d rather just put the Smackdown women’s title match on the preshow with the CW title and then you’re set with eight matches on the main card.
If someone like Strowman can be fully absent from the card, Miz can be.
Yeah but didn't they also beat the shit out of Roman?
I don't think that was anything beyond that particular segment leading to a match but I could be wrong. I mean it make sense if the OC is on Raw to have them feud with the only babyface team since the WWE apparently have zero plans for Ryder and Hawkins moving forward?
As was Joe. Considering AJ wasn’t involved, it seems like a common thread to come back to after the PPV. That brawl could just plant the seed and then circle back to it. FWIW, they also pinned The Usos with the sneak tag to win the titles.
They could make The Viking Raiders faces. They could then go against The Revival, and actually give AOP something to do
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