Vanillatown Mafia

[Kotre]

HDR what do you want me to give, exactly? Reads? Got none and judging by our Lynch accuracy nor does anyone else.

Yeah, in this game scum are going to keep their mouths shut. Of fucking course they are. Talking means giving information to town and that's a stupid move. The fact that I'm defending my play should tell you something. Why would the scum bother? Redirect to another train or point at people that voted to lynch last time and let town kill themselves.

If I were playing scum I'd advise most of them to play a quiet game, between 5 and 10 posts a phase and if things go well have a noisy idiot point fingers until the W. Granted, that's almost certainly not what's going on.

[HHHnFoley_Rulez]

Well it's easy to say "I dont like ___ so I think maybe they're mafia maybe?" - but sometimes, and only sometimes, you can see from voting patterns etc.

Now I think that's been hampered this game by not needing a clear majority... so Mafia don't have to work hard, at all, to get their way... so for me the quieter people, the people who aren't trying to analyse anyone or anything - they are the most suspicious... because it's like they're just biding their time and waiting to win.

...and that saddens me because it's meant to be a social game.

However, I think you are right.. I think the whole keeping low and letting us lynch each other is exactly what's going on. It depends who the team is... but there are clever people left (Pablo, Grim, even Virm in his own way) and my suspicion is at least one of those is sort of.. I dunno like "pulling strings" - depending on who else is on their team.

If people don't post anything but one liners and fluff, especially town, then you can't tell who is lying because no one is trying to do anything. It's a difficult game this one, and I'm certain we won't win now... but... I'd have hoped we'd have hit upon a mafia member by now...

[Psycho666Soldier]

Vote Count
Mazer - 1 (Grimario)
Pablo - 1 (virm)

5 is a majority.

About 17.5 hours left. Phase will end at 11am EST tomorrow.

[virms]

I just believe pabs is scum. Hes lying low and hes too far into the game to be left alive. Obviously I have no proof. It's all a hunch.

[Badger]

Yeah I believe there is a vet pulling the strings and Pablo is my biggest hunch. We can't fart around now this late into the phase, gotta go for it.

Vote Pablo

[Jarrod1983]

Hard to argue with Badger's reasoning for Pablo but am willing to listen to Pablo's retort here. We've been wrong every time so I am understandably apprehensive.

Still waiting for Mikey's promised post as well. Still a decent chunk of time but it is definatley starting to get down to nut cuttin' time.

[Pablo Diablo]

Have I really been lying low? If so I’ve been doing such a shitty job. I’ve not been on a correct lynch (not that any of us have). I’ve been fairly active throughout all phases.

Virm I consider you in the bottom half of likely scum but that’s a poor reason to go for me. We can’t get this wrong.

[Psycho666Soldier]

Vote Count
Pablo - 2 (Virm, Badger)
Mazer - 1 (Grimario)

5 is a majority.

About 15 hours

[Mazer]

Right now, we're not getting a lot of new. I still struggle with grim doing the vote for me, and then saying basically that one wasn't real, but I'm cool if we lose. I might be in my own head on this, but I felt like there were the inaccuracies i mentioned. Some of the reactions seems like it could be out of frustration but its almost like being set up for a "See, I told you to vote for me" bluff loss. I'd still like to hear if anyone else is reading this different.

Kotre still blatantly in the same place with flying under the radar.


I obviously can't waste a vote trying to avoid double kills, as we need to be right.

So hopefully we all get our posts in. Lack of participation is a dumb way for a game to end.

[Grimario]

The second vote was during the night phase, you numpty. It clearly wasn't a legit vote.

My self votes have been out of pure frustration. First the whole amount of fuck all available to any of us making this game a complete clusterfuck of nothingness but "you are scum" accusations and defenses and secondly, BBF going full terrible player, claiming two people that could be scum and then voting for someone else entirely with zero comment as to why he was voting for them. His defense was then "don't do that, it will be bad for you", not a defense of his actions.

When scum win (and they will - we are fucked), the people that got voted out really need to work out how to defend yourselves. Rip going full mental on D1 instead of "I can see how you took it to meant and I really didn't", BBF and his numptiness... fuck it. This game has been shit by town.

I've deliberately played as close to scummy as possible because in a standard game, that keeps you alive as town because scum want to use you as someone they can point to being scummy and lynch train you... but when it comes to a point in the game where it looks like you might be lynched, there is usually SOME town info around that says "Grim is actually town so we shouldn't lynch him". Here though, it's just kept me suspicious and alive, thanks to scum not actually needing to be involved in the game. The no majority required thing is a nice concept in a game with some powers but here, it has been a massive advantage to the scum. I wouldn't be at all surprised if we finish and find that they were only involved in one lynch each, if that.

[Mazer]

Cmon. I didn't say it was an official vote. You said "vote grim". It seemed self defeating. Just like the last go ahead and kill me, so the game can end wasn't a vote. but seemed like a strong statement for the situation. The first one was after a fairly mild accusation from JP, so I'm trying to read if you react strongly or playing a bluff game.

[Mazer]

I could be misreading gallows humor, but in the context of the first one, it has seemed like strong reactions.


And if I guess wrong and you are really bluffing, im going to feel ridiculous about this whole thing

[Grimario]

Well duh it was self defeating. This has been stacked against town the entire game. Two (or is it three?) people killed because of inactivity, scum not actually needing to vote, scum having an every night kill, town having zero ability to be anything but fodder.

This has been an interesting game but it isn't "mafia". The uninformed majority haven't had a chance at winning because of the way the mechanics have been against them.

[Grimario]

I could be misreading gallows humor, but in the context of the first one, it has seemed like strong reactions.


And if I guess wrong and you are really bluffing, im going to feel ridiculous about this whole thing

Not really. There are far more seasoned players that should feel ridiculous.

[virms]

Yeah I think grim is onto something. Let's start looking into people who havent voted

[Mazer]

Vote Count
BBF - 4 (Grimario, Kotre, JP, Pablo)
Mikey - 1 (virm)
Pablo - 1 (BBF)
Kotre - 1 (Jarrod1983)
wardy - 1 (Mazer)

Time's up. That's a lynch.

In the last round we needed momentum, or at the very least could have moved towards not doubling up on a kill. I am curious why Jarrod and kotre didn't vote that round.

And wardy was missing obviously

[Mazer]

Badger missing in the last round.

My kotre suspicions are still there, and probably where im leaning.

[Grimario]

Yeah I think grim is onto something. Let's start looking into people who havent voted

That's something you would expect scum to say.

[Mazer]

But really i wish there had been a little more activity, because it feels like a lot of the same reads (probably mine icluded on grim and kotre) from the same folks.

[virms]

Let's just pick someone (pabs) a d vote for that person (pabs) so we can take 1 Scummer (pabs) down.

[Badger]

Badger missing in the last round.

My kotre suspicions are still there, and probably where im leaning.

At least I'm voting this round. A lot of suspicions talk this round and people are still not voting.

Also I explained earlier why I didn't vote in the last phase. Though BBF did play a crap town game, his protests towards the end cast doubt on me so I stayed off. Also to add to that, voting for anyone else at that point seemed useless to me as it wouldn't have changed the scoreline.

Grim's right though really in that the mechanics have favoured scum and that town has shot themselves in the foot a lot. Rip going nuts (though from my end he was flustered like last game), Cewsh jumping straight in with votes without reading the rules, BBF casting votes randomly without reason then HB and wardy being killed for inactivity.

The likelihood of victory is very slim at this point, but we have to try. There's no point arguing anymore. I'm focusing on trying to take the scum daddy out myself though I have suspicions about the quiet ones too. If we can take out scum's strongest player and for me my hunch is Pablo. His generic "We can't get this wrong" retort (really Sherlock no freakin shit!) didn't convince me at all. If we lose and it ends up being Grim or virm being the vet pulling the strings, then I'll just take it on the chin and we can play a more traditional mafia game the next time. If we can get the scum kingpin out, then we can focus on the quieter lackeys.

[Kotre]

The rounds I didn't vote in were skipped because I wasn't convinced by any of the trains of thought and/or I was too busy to cast an informed vote. I can't remember the dates of the phases I missed to tell you whether I had free time or not.

Vote: Pablo

Because why the fuck not at this point. He's probably town, but that's the case for anyone. He's the most likely target anyway based on the current ruleset.

[Mikey_Jones]

Hard to argue with Badger's reasoning for Pablo but am willing to listen to Pablo's retort here. We've been wrong every time so I am understandably apprehensive.

Still waiting for Mikey's promised post as well. Still a decent chunk of time but it is definatley starting to get down to nut cuttin' time.

Ended up being a long evening.

I definitely agree a seasoned player is involved in the Mafia team, based on who has been killed at night. JP and kdestiny are both excellent players who weren't acting massively suspicious, so it makes sense to kill them off. Badger seems to be pushing the narrative quite a lot with this respect, which almost feels like a sense of bravado/bragging. I'm also leaning towards Jarrod for his posts following on and backing up whatever suspicions there are. I'll elaborate more after my next lesson

- - - Updated - - -

EBWOP: Forgot to add, I think a lot of people on this Pablo vote are Mafia

[HHHnFoley_Rulez]

Interesting stuff, thanks for coming in guys!

I'd like to just bring in a couple of points:

Also I explained earlier why I didn't vote in the last phase. Though BBF did play a crap town game, his protests towards the end cast doubt on me so I stayed off. Also to add to that, voting for anyone else at that point seemed useless to me as it wouldn't have changed the scoreline.

To me this is you saying you didn't vote for him because you didn't want to look suspicious if/when he was town.. but if you had reasons, why are you so hesitant? Unless you don't want to draw peoples eye because you are, in fact, the mafia lackey!

The likelihood of victory is very slim at this point, but we have to try. There's no point arguing anymore. I'm focusing on trying to take the scum daddy out myself though I have suspicions about the quiet ones too. If we can take out scum's strongest player and for me my hunch is Pablo. His generic "We can't get this wrong" retort (really Sherlock no freakin shit!) didn't convince me at all. If we lose and it ends up being Grim or virm being the vet pulling the strings, then I'll just take it on the chin and we can play a more traditional mafia game the next time. If we can get the scum kingpin out, then we can focus on the quieter lackeys.

So given we can't get a single lynch wrong, who's your pick for next? Pablo for me is nailed on.. but I don't want to give people the opportunity to fly under the radar for ANOTHER phase, which is also me not rushing this because people might get modkilled for not making the post count. I didn't want to blatantly say that.. because.. now the lynch could be forced through but seeing as we're on 4 of 5, there's probably mafia on the lynch already whether he is or not so...

Because why the fuck not at this point. He's probably town, but that's the case for anyone. He's the most likely target anyway based on the current ruleset.

See?

..this might not last much longer anyway. May as well show my hand/thought process.

[HHHnFoley_Rulez]

It's Pablo, Kotre and Mikey for me... but the 4th is alluding me. I'll go over these again in case I'm not here for the next phase:

I don't think it's Grim and I'll be horrifically upset if it is.
I don't think it's Badger, despite me calling him a mafia lackey about 10 minutes ago... but then I don't really know.
I don't think I'm sure it's not Jarrod because I find him tough to read but it's a bit wooly around him... he's not overly scummy to me... but...
I have gone round in circles about Virm... I'm just not sure now, I want to say town... but... no real reason either way, he just hasn't struck me as mafia.. he's playing a fairly quieter game than I'd expect from him and I do wonder if he's being "told" to.
The other one I have doubts on is Mazer and that's solely on his last-minute rando-lynches... but.. that could just be town, he's fairly new to this (not to be patronising!) and this game is difficult for veterans like JP and Rip.. so I don't know if I'm being harsh on him. I think if he was mafia, though, he'd try and fly under the radar more.

The other three, though, is where I'm at.... the issue is we trade one for one.. hence why we can't get any wrong.

[Badger]

After Pablo, I say Mikey would be my next one. Kotre has coasted and though he's joined the Spirit Squad and fair play for that, he can still read his phone on the bus journeys. Mazer hasn't really put a foot forward for all his verbiage and voted for people who were being modkilled anyway.

[Pablo Diablo]

Well this is looking like the end of the game for us. We didn't do a great job, but it was always going to be a tough game. Well played to the scum for staying hidden just enough and getting a clean sweep.

I've had a tough time pegging you guys all game.

Grim is right that people need to work on their defending skills. We've all kinda fallen on relying on power roles to win as town and this game clearly shows that we need work on just making decisions without info. I'm still mostly against Day one lynches in a power game but if we improve our skills at making intuitions I can see the value of day one lynches in future games.

[Mikey_Jones]

Who do you think is Mafia then, Pablo?

[Jarrod1983]

Ended up being a long evening.

I definitely agree a seasoned player is involved in the Mafia team, based on who has been killed at night. JP and kdestiny are both excellent players who weren't acting massively suspicious, so it makes sense to kill them off. Badger seems to be pushing the narrative quite a lot with this respect, which almost feels like a sense of bravado/bragging. I'm also leaning towards Jarrod for his posts following on and backing up whatever suspicions there are. I'll elaborate more after my next lesson

I agree that a vet is leading. CWE, Kdestiny and JP were all smart targets like you said. Of course typing this, I'm reminded that Rip said you're not a new player just lapsed.

I do tend to follow in these games so you are right there. I've more than said as much myself in this and other games, so nothing new there. I tend to follow which is why I didn't push hard on you in D2 because JP said no and I trusted JP was town and had our best interests in mind. JP could be right or you could be doing a masterful job at being scum.

Like I said earlier I'm 50/50 between you and Kotre but I've been fooled plenty before in these games.

So between you and Kotre, my gut says Kotre. Mikey said he feels the Pablo vote is full of scum and Kotre is on it. I don't necessarily disagree on the reasoning of the Pablo vote, as he is a veteran but I think Kotre is every bit a veteran as well that is capable of coming up with good plans and seeing them through.

Vote Kotre.

[Pablo Diablo]

Who do you think is Mafia then, Pablo?

I agree with your thinking that someone on my lynch is mafia and really I only think it's one because that's all that would need to expose themselves to guarantee their win with how people haven't been voting.

virm is clear as the day is long to me so it's not him.

So it's between Badger and Kotre for me. Badger I was mostly suspicious previously of because I thought him and JP could have been running a game on us. But with JP being town I would put him under Kotre on my suspicions list. The difficulty is that of the two of them I'm pretty sure one of them is town so guessing wrong loses us the game. Then again voting for me loses us the game as well so I might as well give it the best chance for us to stay alive one more phase.

Vote Kotre

Although should I die tonight Grim is clear for anyone still doubting that.

- - - Updated - - -

Wait

Unvote

Didn't see Jarrods vote on him

[Pablo Diablo]

Hmm...no I still think this is the right way to go

Vote Kotre

[Mikey_Jones]

I'm leaning towards Badger personally

- - - Updated - - -

Agreed with your thoughts though

[Mazer]

At least I'm voting this round. A lot of suspicions talk this round and people are still not voting.

Also I explained earlier why I didn't vote in the last phase. Though BBF did play a crap town game, his protests towards the end cast doubt on me so I stayed off. Also to add to that, voting for anyone else at that point seemed useless to me as it wouldn't have changed the scoreline.

Grim's right though really in that the mechanics have favoured scum and that town has shot themselves in the foot a lot. Rip going nuts (though from my end he was flustered like last game), Cewsh jumping straight in with votes without reading the rules, BBF casting votes randomly without reason then HB and wardy being killed for inactivity.

The likelihood of victory is very slim at this point, but we have to try. There's no point arguing anymore. I'm focusing on trying to take the scum daddy out myself though I have suspicions about the quiet ones too. If we can take out scum's strongest player and for me my hunch is Pablo. His generic "We can't get this wrong" retort (really Sherlock no freakin shit!) didn't convince me at all. If we lose and it ends up being Grim or virm being the vet pulling the strings, then I'll just take it on the chin and we can play a more traditional mafia game the next time. If we can get the scum kingpin out, then we can focus on the quieter lackeys.

There was a time where i kinda wondered if it was you and jp in cahoots. Because JP has been town. I'm off that. Also, as one of the few people I've done some firum competition with, nothing about your analyses up to this point seems atypical.


I still wonder why people wouldn't vote for a person who is going to be modkilled, rather than not voting at all. But I'm on island on that one.

People know the voting patterns here better than I do, so im curious on how the predictions will go here after the votes are all in.


But kotre s last post is more of the same reason i was suspicious last night. Having not had any prophetic dreams, I'm not inclined to change.

Vote kotre

[Jarrod1983]

I'm leaning towards Badger personally

- - - Updated - - -

Agreed with your thoughts though

You think it's because of the bravado of his statements Mikey? I get a town feel from Badger, he's still new, still trying to find footing in these games. Having played a few role games and then being put into a non-role game has got to be a bit difficult to transition in not just for him but for most. I think Badger is just driving conversation because most people that do are gone. I could be wrong though, these games are a mind fuck. Especially this one.

[virms]

Unvote.

I can live with Badger

Vote badger

[Kotre]

Let me say something clear and unequivocal. I am town. I played the game that I thought would get me to the late game figuring that we have experienced players that would finger the scum and win us the game. I've been busy, but not so busy that I couldn't have been more active if I thought it was beneficial.

My mistake was buying into scumreading based on posts and nothing more.

[Badger]

You think it's because of the bravado of his statements Mikey? I get a town feel from Badger, he's still new, still trying to find footing in these games. Having played a few role games and then being put into a non-role game has got to be a bit difficult to transition in not just for him but for most. I think Badger is just driving conversation because most people that do are gone. I could be wrong though, these games are a mind fuck. Especially this one.

I've only 30 minutes for lunch then I'm back to work and the phase will end soon so will make this my closing statement quick.

What Jarrod said above is it in a nutshell and I'm not just paying him lip service. This is the hardest game I've played yet and I've tried to initiate conversation because there has been a lot of hanging back in this game. I have my theories like everyone else and remaining active as much as possible. If you look at the last game I was also quite defensive and maybe got a bit too worked up but I am trying to do the right thing for town. Psycho himself pointed it out but I was still mislynched.

I maybe am too defensive but that's because I don't like being a target when I know I'm not. JP saw me as town and he was town here. When he was scum last game, he was pushing for me and only said "Oh fuck off" when I flipped green.

I am 1000% town here. virm and Mikey are entitled to their opinions on me but I am telling the absolute truth here. A vote for me will lose us the game.

[Mikey_Jones]

Do we know the current vote count/time left in the day?

[Psycho666Soldier]

Vote Count
Kotre - 3 (Jarrod, Pablo, Mazer)
Pablo - 2 (Badger, Kotre)
Mazer - 1 (Grimario)
Badger - 1 (virm)

5 is a majority.

55 minutes left.

[Jarrod1983]

I've only 30 minutes for lunch then I'm back to work and the phase will end soon so will make this my closing statement quick.

What Jarrod said above is it in a nutshell and I'm not just paying him lip service. This is the hardest game I've played yet and I've tried to initiate conversation because there has been a lot of hanging back in this game. I have my theories like everyone else and remaining active as much as possible. If you look at the last game I was also quite defensive and maybe got a bit too worked up but I am trying to do the right thing for town. Psycho himself pointed it out but I was still mislynched.

I maybe am too defensive but that's because I don't like being a target when I know I'm not. JP saw me as town and he was town here. When he was scum last game, he was pushing for me and only said "Oh fuck off" when I flipped green.

I am 1000% town here. virm and Mikey are entitled to their opinions on me but I am telling the absolute truth here. A vote for me will lose us the game.

If you do flip red, that was some dam good lip service but at this point I believe you're telling the truth.

[Mikey_Jones]

Vote Count
Kotre - 3 (Jarrod, Pablo, Mazer)
Pablo - 2 (Badger, Kotre)
Mazer - 1 (Grimario)
Badger - 1 (virm)

5 is a majority.

55 minutes left.

If we did hit 5, is it game over?

[Psycho666Soldier]

If we did hit 5, is it game over?

If you vote a townie, yes. And the game is over if a townie is lynched here in general, but yes, the 5 majority would end the phase immediately.

[Psycho666Soldier]

Vote Count
Kotre - 3 (Jarrod, Pablo, Mazer)
Pablo - 2 (Badger, Kotre)
Mazer - 1 (Grimario)
Badger - 1 (virm)

5 is a majority.

30 minutes remain

[HHHnFoley_Rulez]

Crikey... I go away for a bit and come back to this. I'm gunna just quickly read back as to what's changed... Gimme 2 mins!

[HHHnFoley_Rulez]

Ok that didn't take that long. I was expecting some sort of massive faux pas from someone. I'm confused as to why so many changed so quick.. makes me wonder.

[Kotre]

So long this game. We fucked ourselves.

WP scum

[Psycho666Soldier]

Vote Count
Kotre - 3 (Jarrod, Pablo, Mazer)
Pablo - 2 (Badger, Kotre)
Mazer - 1 (Grimario)
Badger - 1 (virm)

5 is a majority.

10 minutes remain

[HHHnFoley_Rulez]

Vote paaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa-hh nevermind

Vote kotre

[Psycho666Soldier]

Vote Count
Kotre - 4 (Jarrod, Pablo, Mazer, HFR)
Pablo - 2 (Badger, Kotre)
Mazer - 1 (Grimario)
Badger - 1 (virm)

Time's up! That's a lynch. Results coming soon.

[HHHnFoley_Rulez]

C'mooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooon mafia.

[Psycho666Soldier]

END GAME

The citizens were gathered in the City Hall again, rabbling louder than before. Yet another citizen murdered, baked in his own home. The biscuit who was his wife weeps wildly in the corner. The bowl of gruel tries to calm the situation by clearing his throat and calling everyone’s attention. He goes on ignored before clearing his throat one last time and letting out a guttural cry.

“HEY!!!”

The citizens immediately go quiet, as they slowly turn to the Mayor and listen to what he has to say.

“This has gone on for too long! We cannot allow these heathens to go unpunished! Someone in this town is behind this, and we need to get to the bottom of it. And I know we’re used to relying on everyone’s good faith, but we need to make sure that the people in Vanillatown know defenseless murder is unacceptable!!!”

The crowd seems somewhat motivated, but doesn’t know whether they should vocally retort with some kind of cheer.

“We need to start investigating and holding everyone accountable for their words. We need to question everyone until we find out the truth, but not through baseless accusation and mob mentality. And if we find out someone is not true Vanilla, then we must punish them. So where should we start…”

Everyone starts deliberating, but no one can really come to a decision. While the speech was great and the idea sounds neat, no one can really make a comfortable decision. A few people throw out some names and stick with it, some people flip-flop. The majority, however, has no real horse in the race, and it leads to a lot of confusion. The bowl of gruel listens to the couple that had suggestions, and shakes his head at the rest. “Is this it? We have no one else who has a real say in the matter?”

“We have a say.”

Everyone goes silent again. The voice was recognizable. And a certain handful of concerned wafers suddenly cry out.

“HHHnFoley_Rulez?”

“Pablo Diablo?”

“Mazer?”

“Jarrod1983?”

“IS THAT YOU?!?!”

They begin running towards the entryway, where the four young Wafers have emerged. But while the voice had spurned them on, they immediately halted their charge. These were not the boys they remembered. They were wearing flashy clothes that looked from another world. One of them was eating some kind of frozen stick that looked….sweet? They were all sporting an odd choice of hairdo: bleached blonde hair gelled up into short spikes.

And most importantly, of course, they were holding what looked like weapons.

“Pablo, honey. Where have you been all this time?”

Pablo cuts in with a smirk.

“Mom, I’m not Pablo anymore. From now on, you can call me Flavor 1.”

HFR pipes in, holding a bottle with a cloth stuffed in it.

“I’m Flavor 2 now.”

Mazer is rummaging through a big sack trying to grab something.

“Come on, quit slippin’…there we go.”

He pulls out another bottle, showing that they came well prepared.

“You can just call me Flavor 3.”

Jarrod steps forward, laughing softly to himself and trying not to get lost in the power.

“And I’m Flavor 4. And we are…”

They leap closer to each other and strike a pose that is both obnoxious and kind of cool.

“THE FLAVOR BOYZ!!!”

A piece of broccoli begins clapping, before realizing everyone is staring at him with disapproval.

“And you want to know who’s to blame? You are! For too long, you’ve kept this town plain and boring! Not a single spice! Not a speck of sugar! And we’re tired of it.”

“Yeah, from now on, we’re bringing the flavor and taking out anyone who doesn’t want a taste!”

Behind them, the obnoxious, shaded figure of Guy Fieri walks behind them with a comically large machine gun.

“Well, boys – let’s take ‘em to Flavortown.”

In a hail of fire and a spray of bullets, the entire population of Vanillatown is slaughtered. Not a single soul left to live other than the devious little Wafers who were just a little too bored.

Kotre, and all of Vanillatown, have been murdered. They were Vanilla Townies.

------

YOUR WINNERS
Pablo Diablo - Mafia Flavor Boy
HHHnFoley_Rulez – Mafia Flavor Boy
Mazer - Mafia Flavor Boy
Jarrod1983 - Mafia Flavor Boy

FLAVORTOWN (Mafia Chat): https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/a329W4AtfER
Vanilla Heaven (Dead Chat): https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/DfkRVKmG5AKuH

[Pablo Diablo]

I am stunned that gambit of mine worked enough to put doubt in people’s minds. Sure bad luck happens but I was on every Lynch. Which I guess in it’s own way was kind of a dumb scum move.

[JP]

Rip, first chance I have.

- - - Updated - - -

Fooooooooming.

[Grimario]

Well that was shit. All the reasons why in my earlier rant.

[Psycho666Soldier]

I didn't take note for this game. I had intended to, but I was so busy during the first half that I just never got around to it.

It amazes me how JP almost had it nailed within 5 posts, and then got distracted by Rip.

Overall, I think the new voting method was a bit of a bust here. It's a great way to really see how people play with lynch wagons, but the problem is that no one here is comfortable putting out a vote. past the first phase, there was a large number of you who just didn't have a vote on the board, and that led to scum being able to dictate who was lynched with one or two votes. Yes, that's the negative of the system, but since no one tried putting votes out their to put their money where there mouth is, they didn't force scum to do anything, really. They were some of the most active players in the game. I feel if people had actually put more votes out and people considered the motivations of the votes and the timing, this game could have ended up far differently and there would be more to analyze.

I would like to say that I disagree with Grim about the set-up. Is it a bit mafia-sided? Absolutely. But to say it's "not mafia" is a bit harsh. If you don't like to play it that way, that's fine, but there are plenty of variants where there's only a cop as a role. In those games, there's no point in just waiting for the cop to get info. Yes, he'd be able to clear some people, but you still have to decide who's scummy from what's left. The roles make things easier, but that doesn't mean there isn't anything to read into people's posts. There's an intention behind every post, and you have to find those motivations. Just because you're wrong sometimes doesn't mean you won't ever be right. I mean, look at your reasoning for voting Mazer.

I'm not trying to beat you guys up or anything. There was still some good play that shown out. HFR really took control of the conversation and didn't allow the quieter town to have a leg to stand on. Mazer did a phenomenal job for his first time, and really made people unwilling to look there until the options were running out. Jarrod making some great posts as well, and probably was a big part of scum morale and constructing a narrative for the thread. JP was fantastic in taking charge and getting the game moving, and I think had he survived one more round, would have probably led a correct lynch, or been a part of it. Mikey had some good late-game posts that, if focused in the right direction, could nail a scum. Badger was very sharp this game, and also gets a ton of points for generating tons of content. Despite my disagreement with Grim, I think he did a good job, too, and were he not so disillusioned with the setup, I think could have focused enough to get to the right place earlier. And props to kdestiny for also trying to drive up the content.

Also, I do think a big part of why this game became unwinnable is the modkills. I kind of expected Honey_Badger, but wardy dropping off effectively killed the chance for town to have comeback this phase. With it not being worth the risk for scum to go all in on a wagon, Pablo could have actually got lynched there.

Overall, I probably won't bring back the majority voting. I like it when it's used well, but I think the playstyles of everyone here makes it so it's too abused by scum. It's not even a timezone issue, it's just the way voting takes place. However, I will be keeping the post count requirement. 5 posts is not hard, and I even said as long as it's not all blatant spam, it doesn't all have to be filled with content. HB was one post away from hitting 5. There were easily unavoidable modkills and warnings here. The point is that a dead town leads to a scum lynch. So I feel a minimum of five posts isn't much to ask for.

Alright, I'm done ranting. Sorry if you guys didn't have fun. I'll have wacky unbalanced stuff next time.

[JP]

First fucking post, Pablo is obviously scum.

Rip and Cewsh collectively shit in their hands and clap.

THANKS LADS!

My fault for being distracted. But still, first chance lads, both of you.

[Psycho666Soldier]

I am stunned that gambit of mine worked enough to put doubt in people’s minds. Sure bad luck happens but I was on every Lynch. Which I guess in it’s own way was kind of a dumb scum move.

That's actually a good scum move if you can talk your way out of it. The best scum can vote anti-town consistently and get away with it. If town lets you get away with it, there's no reason to NOT keep voting mislynches.

[Grimario]

Disillusioned with the setup slightly bit completely disillusioned with the downright daft play by others and get modkills to go with it. The game was essentially unwinnable when the second modkill happened and we had our next mislynch.

I won't be running my planned game next. I don't think people are ready for another concept game any time soon, at least not going on the play here!

[Grimario]

That's actually a good scum move if you can talk your way out of it. The best scum can vote anti-town consistently and get away with it. If town lets you get away with it, there's no reason to NOT keep voting mislynches.

That's the bit that makes this a little anti mafia though. Zero power roles mean it's just a game of bullshitting better than someone else. It's Mafia ish.

[Pablo Diablo]

People definitely were too scared to vote and we took advantage of it and the majority rule.

[JP]

People are scared to be wrong.

Don't be, balls and belief is how games are won. Specifically looking at you @Kotre. You've changed your play following the snafu a few games back. Fuck that. Being wrong goes with the territory. Get back there Bab.

[Grimario]

People are scared to be wrong.

Don't be, balls and belief is how games are won. Specifically looking at you @Kotre. You've changed your play following the snafu a few games back. Fuck that. Being wrong goes with the territory. Get back there Bab.

Before (and after) my time so don't know what this incident was but absolutely agree with it. Better off dying by your convictions than whimpering away on the sidelines.

[Badger]

Yeah we were fucked from the beginning really. I did wonder why HHH wasn't voting but wasn't confident enough to put a name forward. My feeling on Pablo was strong this phase though and I wish the rest of us had stuck with it. Pablo and Mazer got the sway on Kotre and I would've pushed more for Pablo this afternoon if not due to work.

Interesting experiment though Psycho and thanks as always for running it. I think I'd rather we go for traditional Mafia from now on though, very stressful!!

[Jarrod1983]

Great game. I think it could have ended differently if JP got the Pablo vote through D1.

[Badger]

Also great job by Mazer too, I had a feeling but not high on my list. Also congrats to Jarrod for his second win in a row after always being killed early!

[Grimario]

I think I'd rather we go for traditional Mafia from now on though, very stressful!!

You should definitely join my game then

[Jarrod1983]

Also great job by Mazer too, I had a feeling but not high on my list. Also congrats to Jarrod for his second win in a row after always being killed early!

**Barry Horrowitz pat on the back**

It is nice to have back to back wins after so many losses, even if both wins were pretty lucky.

[Grimario]

Just read scum chat. Pabs, you were spot on. Fuck red eye flights, cancellations, rescheduling plans, getting dragged to niece's soccer games when all you want to do is sleep. I was such a grumpy turd IRL last weekend, you guys got off lightly here.

Mazer is going to be really really good at mafia. His contribution and understanding of stuff in your QT was excellent.

[HHHnFoley_Rulez]

[Grimario]

Also, I'm surprised that there was minimal activity in the graveyard.

[Psycho666Soldier]

That's the bit that makes this a little anti mafia though. Zero power roles mean it's just a game of bullshitting better than someone else. It's Mafia ish.

But that's the point of the game in general. With good bullshitting, you can convince people to not vote a scum checked by the cop. Cewsh did that for me in my first scum game where he basically filibustered my lynch for a phase or two despite being dead to rights. Someone can bullshit, and people can be wrong, but when someone has repeatedly been on every mislynch, you have to put them on the burner and force them to over-explain their position or scumhunt, and that will make their intentions more clear.

Same thing goes for a game where important roles keep getting blocked, cleared players die in the same night, and so on so forth. You can't blame a loss on the bad luck with roles. If you're not given anything overnight, you still have to find other ways to find scum.

[Grimario]

Not disagreeing with that. Bullshitting is absolutely part of the game but that's it... part of the game.

The real biggest issue though was lack of participation. If everyone took part and maybe even everyone had a mandatory vote, even without requiring majority, that would have brought balance to the force or something. Having people dead for inactivity and having scum not even need to be involved in votes was detrimental to town chances.

[Mazer]

I was very lucky (which it means it will never happen again-and I should be ignored moving forward) to get pulled as mafia this game, and get to have some exposure behind the curtain.




Survivor, debate competition, etc.....all these games seem to struggle with participation. My disappointment on people not participating wasn't hard to fake.



But the ones who did....damn. With very little info. Some of you guys are really good at this. Nerve-wracking SOBs. There were a few close tipping points that really could have changed the dynamic. I got caught in traffic and made a hasty vote to get in on time, and tried to throw some quick logic to "look less suspicious" And Grimario fucking nailed his read on me. I tried to defend and bullshit, but I was waiting for the hammer.

[JP]

Psycho, love you Bab, and I have no complaints about it being this way, but the game was heavily scum favoured.

The minimum post requirement helps scum. Vanilla town is a bit boring, why post? Vanilla scum, you have scum moaning at you to post.

No majority means lynch lists are meaningless.

Suicidally shit town play leaves us fucked.

I understand you have no control over the last one, but seriously, that is some of the worst town play of all time.

[Badger]

You should definitely join my game then

Done!

[Badger]

**Barry Horrowitz pat on the back**

It is nice to have back to back wins after so many losses, even if both wins were pretty lucky.

Read your bit in the scum chat about getting me to vote Mikey. Pablo was always going to be my #1 and would have probably voted him next. Good play sir!

[JP]

But guys, maybe there's a Jester.

[Grimario]

FUCKING JESTER

[JP]

Maybe there's a role in a game without roles.

[Psycho666Soldier]

Psycho, love you Bab, and I have no complaints about it being this way, but the game was heavily scum favoured.

The minimum post requirement helps scum. Vanilla town is a bit boring, why post? Vanilla scum, you have scum moaning at you to post.

No majority means lynch lists are meaningless.

Suicidally shit town play leaves us fucked.

I understand you have no control over the last one, but seriously, that is some of the worst town play of all time.

A vanilla game is naturally scum-sided. I'm not denying that. But this game would have been drastically different if people actually voted and made a measly 5 posts.

You make something interesting. Dip your toes in and get your feet wet. Call someone out and vote them and see what happens. Just because there are no roles doesn't mean you shouldn't post. It's the same philosophy as not lynching D1. If the night phase brings nothing, you can't just sit on your hands and hope for magic to happen. You have to generate content and start putting out votes. Which plays into how no majority should actually make lynch lists more meaningful. If you had everyone voting, you'd have two or three competing wagons. Scum would be forced to push more votes to get the right guy lynched, and everyone would have some sort of stance on the gamestate. When no one votes, the system falls apart.

I get that it won't work here. People just don't play with enough conviction, and that's fine. But it's not meaningless when used right.

It's whatever, though. I'm done arguing the point unless I'm in a game and the town's play is actively hurting the game. I think we're all just going to agree to disagree on this but I feel like I'm one of the only ones who sees mafia this way. I just hate the reliance on roles.

[Grimario]

I think if you'd mandated a vote requirement instead of a post requirement, it might have worked and encouraged a bit more participation... Even if it strangely meant less posts. If you force a vote, people then have to defend that vote.

[Badger]

kdestiny: "Fucking Badger"

All good though mate, it was a hard game!

[Badger]

I think if you'd mandated a vote requirement instead of a post requirement, it might have worked and encouraged a bit more participation... Even if it strangely meant less posts. If you force a vote, people then have to defend that vote.

Yeah I agree with that.

[Psycho666Soldier]

I think if you'd mandated a vote requirement instead of a post requirement, it might have worked and encouraged a bit more participation... Even if it strangely meant less posts. If you force a vote, people then have to defend that vote.

Yeah, I might do that next game instead and stick with my usual inactivity rule.

[Mazer]

A vanilla game is naturally scum-sided. I'm not denying that. But this game would have been drastically different if people actually voted and made a measly 5 posts.

You make something interesting. Dip your toes in and get your feet wet. Call someone out and vote them and see what happens. Just because there are no roles doesn't mean you shouldn't post. It's the same philosophy as not lynching D1. If the night phase brings nothing, you can't just sit on your hands and hope for magic to happen. You have to generate content and start putting out votes. Which plays into how no majority should actually make lynch lists more meaningful. If you had everyone voting, you'd have two or three competing wagons. Scum would be forced to push more votes to get the right guy lynched, and everyone would have some sort of stance on the gamestate. When no one votes, the system falls apart.

I get that it won't work here. People just don't play with enough conviction, and that's fine. But it's not meaningless when used right.

It's whatever, though. I'm done arguing the point unless I'm in a game and the town's play is actively hurting the game. I think we're all just going to agree to disagree on this but I feel like I'm one of the only ones who sees mafia this way. I just hate the reliance on roles.

I've only played mafia in person on a few occasions, and the only roles I was familiar with are mafia and detective. The throw accusations out and the detectives trying not be too apparent were pretty much the only strategies I am aware of.



So I have no had idea what was going on with all that jester shit.....


....


.....except that conversation was a gift from the heavens

[Badger]

I've only played mafia in person on a few occasions, and the only roles I was familiar with are mafia and detective. The throw accusations out and the detectives trying not be too apparent were pretty much the only strategies I am aware of.



So I have no had idea what was going on with all that jester shit.....


....


.....except that conversation was a gift from the heavens

Jester is a role where that person wins by being lynched. It's generally frowned upon on here from what I understand except for JP's Mortal Kombat game where the jester got killed but not lynched and it was early.

Why people though virm was a jester in an all vanilla game voting for himself beggars belief!

[BBF]

I haven't played a vanilla game before and i didnt really enjoy it tbh. Nothing with the way psycho ran it, it just wasn't for me so when my name was mentioned and a train started to get rolling i gave up a bit.

Prior to that each of my posts spelt out TOWN if you took the first letter of each sentence going up. I mentioned 'up' a few times too to try and drop hints.

[JP]

JESTER LADS! MAYBE THERE'S A FUCKING JESTER!

Rip, Cewsh, I keep my promises.

[Badger]

I haven't played a vanilla game before and i didnt really enjoy it tbh. Nothing with the way psycho ran it, it just wasn't for me so when my name was mentioned and a train started to get rolling i gave up a bit.

Prior to that each of my posts spelt out TOWN if you took the first letter of each sentence going up. I mentioned 'up' a few times too to try and drop hints.

Fair play for trying but with all the mass confusion going and being an all vanilla game, it was probably too subtle to pick "up" To me and I think others, you were just shouting random names. If you explained your Pablo vote better, it might have saved you. Your late protests did dissuade me from voting though.

[CWE]

One day, I'll see day 2 as town again.

[Pablo Diablo]

One day, I'll see day 2 as town again.

JP would have been the first kill but he made himself too suspicious.

[Badger]

One day, I'll see day 2 as town again.

Can only hope Grim straps a series of explosives to you!

[Kdestiny]

Was curious that CWE was an early target again in a game where spreadsheeting didn't matter. He truly seems to have the mafia shaking in their boots when he is town.

[JP]

JP would have been the first kill but he made himself too suspicious.

Silver lining from this for me is that I clocked you immediately and also kept you from killing me as I wanted you to.

Just to be clear, you guys absolutely fucking killed it. Town may have given you gifts, but you used them with sheer perfection.

- - - Updated - - -

One day, I'll see day 2 as town again.

Sometimes trust me.

[JP]

Was curious that CWE was an early target again in a game where spreadsheeting didn't matter. He truly seems to have the mafia shaking in their boots when he is town.

It wasn't a smart kill. Which, weirdly enough, made it a smart kill.

[Pablo Diablo]

It was somewhat random so that people couldn't look too much into it, but still someone who is a strong player.

Except for you JP because you have pegged me as scum every good damn game. Which means I can never kill you early.

[Jarrod1983]

It wasn't a smart kill. Which, weirdly enough, made it a smart kill.

I look at it like if you're scum the earliest you can kill a player like CWE the better.

[JP]

Except for you JP because you have pegged me as scum every good damn game. Which means I can never kill you early.

Mate, your first post practically tattooed SCUM on your forehead.

The fact apparently nobody else picked up on it, just speaks of your skill.

[JP]

I look at it like if you're scum the earliest you can kill a player like CWE the better.

CWE made no sense as the first kill. It genuinely threw me off massively. Which makes it a superb choice. Bastards.

[Rip]

JESTER LADS! MAYBE THERE'S A FUCKING JESTER!

Rip, Cewsh, I keep my promises.

We both said there wouldn’t be one, but it was worth being cautious, then some but ball from the midlands had a meltdown