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Thread: Hart Family Appreciation Thread

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    Intercontinental Champion Jarrod1983's Avatar
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    Hart Family Appreciation Thread

    I was toying with the idea of a Hart thread and since we lost Owen today back in 1999 let's share fond memories of Owen and the rest of the Hart clan here.

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    NOICE! Peter Griffin's Avatar
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    Hottest crowd ever?

    The Hart foundation V2 were excellent.

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    Loved the Hart Foundation. One of my earliest memories as a young fan was witnessing the face turn where Jimmy Hart aligned with Demolition and they wrestled each other on a Saturday morning show (Not sure if that would have been Superstars back in 1988-1989). Even as a kid I thought the tag-team scene in the WWF had some of the best WRESTLING.

    Blue Blazer was cool. I remember they used to run a spot during tv shows where he was going to unmask and you could see him at these different locations where he would unmask and sign autographs.

    Bret as a singles, very few are better, even less are in the same league. The guy literally was what he said he was. Owen Hart, super underrated as a singles wrestler imo. Personally, I think his haircut is what held him back from being World champion but also he was in an era where very few wrestlers were champ.

    If Owen Hart came along during the last 15 years, he would have been at least a 5 time World champion across 2-3 brands. I also wonder the "what if..." What if he didn't pass, what if he didn't retire like he wanted to in a year and stuck around. Matches against Kurt Angle, Chris Benoit, Eddie Guerrero, fuck man even rematches against better versions of The Rock, X-Pac, Triple H, and Undertaker would have been SICK!!

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    World Champion Donald's Avatar
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    What's the reasoning behind Bret, Jim, and Bulldog all packing up to leave for WCW, but Owen stayed in WWE?

    Also, do you think Pillman would have gone back to WCW?

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    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donald View Post
    What's the reasoning behind Bret, Jim, and Bulldog all packing up to leave for WCW, but Owen stayed in WWE?

    Also, do you think Pillman would have gone back to WCW?
    Vince wouldn't let Owen out of his contract because he still saw major value in Owen as opposed to Anvil who was only hired because Stu Hart asked Vince and Bulldog....well it was Bulldog.

    IDK about Pillman. Probably not. He worked Bischoff into a shoot thinking he would come back and the WWF was popping off right as he died. Had he lived, I have no doubt he would've been a huge part of Austin's first reign.

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    Intercontinental Champion Jarrod1983's Avatar
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    Got to sit down and watch Owen vs Bulldog from Raw March 97 today. I love this match. I wanted to do it yesterday but I just didn't find the time. One of the best matches in Raw history.

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    Why so serious? Damien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Griffin View Post


    Hottest crowd ever?

    The Hart foundation V2 were excellent.
    Ahhhhhh Canadian Stampede. I was there at the Saddledome that night. It was fucking crazy!

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    Intercontinental Champion Jarrod1983's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Damien View Post
    Ahhhhhh Canadian Stampede. I was there at the Saddledome that night. It was fucking crazy!
    I'm jealous, I bet fucking crazy is a understatement. That crowd was white hot.

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    Very glad that this thread got so few replies. Bret Hart is overrated trash and his entire family is a disgrace. Very sad.

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    Intercontinental Champion Jarrod1983's Avatar
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    You dig this up just to say that? Pretty pitiful to spend your time that way. The Hart family is and always will be wrestling royalty.

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    World Champion Murphy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarrod1983 View Post
    Got to sit down and watch Owen vs Bulldog from Raw March 97 today. I love this match. I wanted to do it yesterday but I just didn't find the time. One of the best matches in Raw history.
    Possibly my favourite match in Raw history. I must check this out myself again soon.

    1997 remains my favourite year ever in wrestling. What a rollercoaster that was for them all, particularly Bret. From being in the main event scene all year, the match of the year with Austin at 'Mania, winning his 5th and last WWF Title at SummerSlam, the screwjob and then finally debuting on Nitro before the year was out. Mental. But boy did WCW squander that opportunity. You can count on one hand Bret's WCW highlights.

    I can actually only think of 4;
    1. The steel plate/Goldberg spear in Canada.
    2. Match at Kemper Arena for Owen.
    3. Debut match with Flair at Souled Out '98
    4. Winning the WCW Title at Mayhem '99, again in Canada.

    I think he had decent matches with Booker and Sting, but from memory, they seemed to all have schmoz finishes.
    Last edited by Murphy; September 3rd, 2019 at 6:52 AM.

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    Intercontinental Champion Jarrod1983's Avatar
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    I'm right there with you about 1997 (93 and 94 were also great years to me. Sure there was tons of shit but dam it was fun!) I was thirteen and had pretty much grew up with the WWF. The attitude era came at just the right time. Even though Bret was trashing the USA seeing him have a rougher edge about him (I missed his original heel run so it was new to me) just made me double down harder as a fan of him. Everything he "whined" about was true at the beginning so I felt his heel turned was justified. Austin had pushed The Hitman too far. I remember my Dad at one point just not letting me watch every Monday. He said I watch it all on weekend mornings so he felt it was unnecessary to watch Monday night. I found out staying up late one night that the Canadian channel CKWS (I got 4 channels ABC, CBS, CKWS and PBS in my room) replayed Raw really late Saturday night/Early Sunday morning. Awesome stuff. I'd play Super NES all night and stay up. I remember seeing Owen win the I-C title and Anvil surprise attack Austin and Bret put over The Patriot. These memories are even more special to me. Just me and a ancient switch dial TV with bad reception watching Raw.

    I really didn't care much for Stone Cold until well after Bret had lefted. Honestly I was so busy that I pretty much watched 2 episodes of Raw Nov 97 to Nov 98. How can anyone resist a tournament to crown the new champ. I remember sitting at the lunch table and a bunch of guys were picking Austin or Rock. I was sorta baffled that Rocky Maivia was in the conversation and it was cool to talk about wrestling. I watched that Monday (week before the tourny) and as George Costanza would say "I'm back baby!"

    I think my parents were disappointed when Raw started coming on their TV's again. My mother says "We're back to this now?"? My dad took it a bit tougher and told me during football season of I wanted to watch "that shit" I have to bring my TV out so he could watch football. No problem there! Funny thing was I'd catch him wrestling more when it was on.

    Can't remember much about his WCW run either besides what you brought up. I do remember him joining Nash, Hall, Jarrett and Steiner and forming that nWo group with the silver colors. Saw that live actually (yeah I'd switch off Raw for Bret) and thought it was fun enough. Too bad it never got off the ground.
    Last edited by Jarrod1983; September 3rd, 2019 at 6:56 PM.

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    World Champion Murphy's Avatar
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    My Dad hated it too.

    I actually switched to Nitro when Bret left WWE. But in the UK, we didn't get access to the PPVs, so I just couldn't fully invest in WCW. Even if we had the PPVs, I think I'd have struggled. Just something about WCW never really clicked with me. I enjoyed the cruiserweight scene more than anything.

    I wonder what would have happened if Bret had never got injured when Vince bought the company in 2001. Man that could have been amazing. Yeah, highly likely that Bret and Vince still wouldn't have made up for years, but you never know. Matches in WWE with Angle, Jericho, Eddie etc.

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    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Murphy View Post


    I wonder what would have happened if Bret had never got injured when Vince bought the company in 2001. Man that could have been amazing. Yeah, highly likely that Bret and Vince still wouldn't have made up for years, but you never know. Matches in WWE with Angle, Jericho, Eddie etc.
    Something I've always thought about but usually I space off Montreal and the death of Owen when going "Oh man Bret v. Angle would have been awesome" But when would that have happened? Who knows.....But I think it would have eventually.

    What options would Bret have had? He more than likely would have sat out the remainder of his contract and maybe he would have buried the hatchet sooner than later. It's hard to think out loud because Bret's never really said "If I hadn't been injured, I would have jumped in with NWA-TNA to stick it to Vince a little more" or "I would have probably gone back, worked with the younger talent and buried the hatchet for them". Which I think is what he would have done.

    And just think.....Guess who else was making their return. Shawn. Michaels. Could Bret ever trust Shawn again? Could he trust Vince? Then you factor in Triple H by this time, he's married to Stephanie and has a shit ton of stroke. He had more stroke than Shawn, still does, but back then, way more as well.

    It would have been CRAZY.

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    Legend Badger's Avatar
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    This thread reminded me I still have Bret’s “Hitman” book Rosk gave me for a Secret Santa years ago and I really should read it.

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    World Champion Murphy's Avatar
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    Oh you bloody should, Badge. As good as Foley’s and Jericho’s first for me. Yes, he’s a bit of a moaner and takes himself too seriously, but he’s 100% honest and was at his peak when wrestling was hot. And man, good and bad, he’s got stories to tell.

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    Intercontinental Champion Jarrod1983's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Murphy View Post
    Oh you bloody should, Badge. As good as Foley’s and Jericho’s first for me. Yes, he’s a bit of a moaner and takes himself too seriously, but he’s 100% honest and was at his peak when wrestling was hot. And man, good and bad, he’s got stories to tell.
    This is the truth. The more I've read it the more I like to pick out Bret's more moany statements. I used to work at a ice cream shop and that's the book I would read in my down time. I really enjoyed the Stampede section and his early WWF run stuff. Definatley worth reading a couple times just to really let all the stories sink in.

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    Intercontinental Champion Jarrod1983's Avatar
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    On earlier topics I feel like Bret would have just sat out his contract. I would have loved to see Angle vs. Bret though. It would have been so great. During the last Wilfred's I picked Austin vs. Hogan for a dream match I'd set up with a time machine but, dam, I really wanted to pick Bret vs. Angle and put it on the WM X-8 card. As big as that crowd made Hogan vs. Rock I feel like they would have been just as hot for Bret vs. Angle.

    Then all the other matches like Edge, Jericho, Guerrero, Christian, Mysterio and maybe even get the Bret vs. Hogan WWF match they never had. A match with The Rock also could have been great (I know they wrestled when Rock was still Rocky Maivia but still plenty to work with there). Plus, the Bret vs. Austin feud never got a proper finish so thats something that could have happened too. Then, like ND mentioned, Shawn's return and HHH's rise to power surely would have provided some intense TV. Just thinking of HHH and HBK feuding with a new group of wrestlers led by Bret could have been off the charts.
    Last edited by Jarrod1983; September 4th, 2019 at 9:16 PM.

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    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    I'm just wondering if somehow he would have said fuck you WWE and joined TNA like Sting did....Imagine Bret v AJ Styles, Samoa Joe, Angle, Christian, Jeff Hardy, Sabu, Monty Brown, Black Machismo, Daniels, Sabin, Bully Ray, Nash, Foley, hell even Hogan came through there.

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    Intercontinental Champion Jarrod1983's Avatar
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    Bret would have made Monty Brown look awesome. I always thought Monty should have had won their title at least once. I was disappointed he didn't do more in WWE.

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    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarrod1983 View Post
    Bret would have made Monty Brown look awesome. I always thought Monty should have had won their title at least once. I was disappointed he didn't do more in WWE.
    Monty Brown was the shit. I think what happened with him was that right as he was about to explode on to the main event scene, Christian and Sting signed. So they put the belt on Jarrett, and by they I mean Jeff lol, then turned Monty Brown heel and had him align with Jarrett and AMW/Gail Kim. Stupid move.

    But yeah....Bret Hart in TNA, when he more than likely would still be able to go (he'd be about 44-45 when TNA first started in 2001), it'd be pretty cool.

    God damn, I didn't realize Bret was getting up there in wrestling age when he won his first World title. He was 36-37ish.

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    Intercontinental Champion Jarrod1983's Avatar
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    Yeah, Christian going to TNA was a hot topic. I remember being super excited to see Christian not be held down. I don't know why WWE put the brakes on Christian and Tomko. To me this is the second best cocky heel/huge bodyguard combo ever (HBK & Diesel being #1 but did I even need to say that?). Christian going to Smackdown stalled everything he was growing in the first half of the year.

    Monty definatley got the raw end of the stick. I can understand the hot hand with Christian but Dam Monty should have got that belt in 04. I vaguely remember him getting a shot at Jarrett somewhere in that long reign he had. The Pounce was awesome and even a couple month run could have been fun. Most the reigns at that time didn't last long unless your name was Jarrett if I remember correctly so what's the harm in giving some gold to "The Alpha Male".

    Bret at a healthy 44-45 would still be able to put on a nice physical Stampede style match. It's too bad he had to retire because he could have had great matches with a bunch of people.

    Yeah Bret wasn't super young but it was The New Generation! He just had that young guy look. He had been running strong in WWF since 1984 and didn't take a huge block of time off until 1996. Bret was a stud that rocked that exhaustive 80s schedule with that hard as a rock WWF ring. Tag team specialist, Intercontinental work horse or World Champion top guy, Bret was the best. My opinion of course and obviously not everyone agrees but I grew up on The Hitman and, even if he's a moany, old, crotchety grandpa now I still enjoy it when he appears. It's too bad he's more fragile than Elijah Price because I'd still love to see Bret tag with some young kid and get to throw some European Uppercuts and then lock in a Sharpshooter.

  23. #23
    My dad pinned Mr Backlund Kneeneighbor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nash Diesel View Post
    Monty Brown was the shit. I think what happened with him was that right as he was about to explode on to the main event scene, Christian and Sting signed. So they put the belt on Jarrett, and by they I mean Jeff lol, then turned Monty Brown heel and had him align with Jarrett and AMW/Gail Kim. Stupid move.

    But yeah....Bret Hart in TNA, when he more than likely would still be able to go (he'd be about 44-45 when TNA first started in 2001), it'd be pretty cool.

    God damn, I didn't realize Bret was getting up there in wrestling age when he won his first World title. He was 36-37ish.
    Spent a lot of time fucking about in the tag scene.

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    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kneeneighbor View Post
    Spent a lot of time fucking about in the tag scene.
    That and I keep forgetting he had an entire run with his dad's promotion Stampede starting in the late 70's. I saw some old ass matches with him and Dynamite Kid that were very good, matches that you could see today in 2019 and not think "oh this is such an old style of wrestling". Mat based sure, but still very active for that period (I think these were like 1982-1984ish)

  25. #25
    World Champion Murphy's Avatar
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    Stampede was years ahead of it's time. Shame Bret owns the footage, right? I'd watch some of that on the Network.

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    Intercontinental Champion Jarrod1983's Avatar
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    I believe Bret does own it. I remember there being some episodes on the network a few years back but then they got taken down pretty soon after they got put up.
    Last edited by Jarrod1983; September 6th, 2019 at 5:16 PM.

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    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Yeah that sounds like that was the case. WWE thought they owned it, then Bret proved he actually owned it. But a few months ago they put up the "pilot" for the reboot of Stampede from 1999 which I remember being kind of a big deal at the time on the underground. I guess they've put up matches from back in the day on the Network and DVD releases since, but they don't feature Bret so there must be some kind of arrangement where they can use certain footage.

    I know for a fact one of the Ladder match DVDs has Jake the Snake in a ladder match from Stampede, I think against Bad News Brown haha.

  28. #28
    Main Eventer corinoismybestfriend's Avatar
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    Just watched Bret vs Austin from IYH: Revenge of the Taker and it was GREAT.

    It was funny to hear McMahon on commentary for it. He was mearly smitten with Austin at this point.

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    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by corinoismybestfriend View Post
    Just watched Bret vs Austin from IYH: Revenge of the Taker and it was GREAT.

    It was funny to hear McMahon on commentary for it. He was mearly smitten with Austin at this point.
    That's one of their matches I forgot all about.

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    Intercontinental Champion Jarrod1983's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by corinoismybestfriend View Post
    Just watched Bret vs Austin from IYH: Revenge of the Taker and it was GREAT.

    It was funny to hear McMahon on commentary for it. He was mearly smitten with Austin at this point.
    I haven't watched this one in a long time but maybe I'll take a gander at it tonight. I do remember this is right before Bret's knee work because Bret's knee was beyond fucked at this point. Still working through it though because Bret was a tough, dedicated son of a gun.

  31. #31
    Main Eventer corinoismybestfriend's Avatar
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    I thought the knee injury was a work considering how Bret worked that night.
    Kind of mind boggling is the finish was almost exactly the same as the Montreal screwjob, which both Michaels and Russo have taken credit for since then...

    The match makes me want to look at their Survivor Series match again

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    World Champion Murphy's Avatar
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    Revenge of Taker match was great. Hurt by the false finish, but great. And of course, totally different with the roles reversed.

    Got a lot of love for that PPV. The first In Your House show to be shown in the UK.

  33. #33
    Intercontinental Champion Jarrod1983's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by corinoismybestfriend View Post
    I thought the knee injury was a work considering how Bret worked that night.
    Kind of mind boggling is the finish was almost exactly the same as the Montreal screwjob, which both Michaels and Russo have taken credit for since then...

    The match makes me want to look at their Survivor Series match again
    In Bret's book he was going to have surgery before the show. He said it was supposed to be a match vs. Sid but Sid was hurt too so Vince changed it to vs. Austin. Bret also said something like the PPV was in danger of tanking and Vince really needed him to be there. That's why the night after they had the Street Fight that wrote him off TV. Bret wrote that the surgery was supposed to keep him on the shelf six months but Vince told him if he gets healthy at KOTR he'd wrestle Shawn and win. Of course those Bret's writings so who knows but I'd definatley wager the knee injury was real.

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    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    I never understood why Bret was so adamant about beating Shawn. Shawn I think...counting tag team matches...has only defeated Bret 3 times. Bret on the other hand has beaten Shawn like 400 times lol.

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    Intercontinental Champion Jarrod1983's Avatar
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    Another thing in Bret's book he talked about was how he always thought Shawn would be the man after Bret was done. Maybe he just wanted to eeke out more time on top like a lot of top people do. Bret wrote about it way before he was champion though. Almost like he knew he and Shawn would out last most the late 80s-early 90s rosters. Hell I think Bret dodged dropping that I-C belt to Shawn too. Bret wrote in his book when Bret won the title off Piper Vince pretty much told him that Shawn would win it off him sometime in the fall which Bret says in the book he was fine with. Conveniently Bret had the idea to drop it to Bulldog in England instead and then have Bulldog drop it to Shawn. A top Bret and Bulldog moment for sure and glad it happened but in the back of my brain I always thought was Bret dodging Shawn there?

    One thing was for sure, there was no way Bret was leaving WMXII with that title. Nobody to hot potato around with that time either. I loved them both as a kid and that Iron Man Match I looked forward to greatly. Sadly, no amount of begging would get me that PPV that month and I had to wait until Raw to see who won. I just knew Shawn had but never thought it would be 1-0. Still a great match to watch though. In the story though I always felt Bret got ripped off. The man didn't get beat in 60 minutes! Should have been a draw with Bret retaining! I even remember writing WWF magazine with a question to President Monsoon about why he changed the rules last second and cost Bret the belt?!? Didn't get published though, the bastards!

  36. #36
    Legend Badger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nash Diesel View Post
    I never understood why Bret was so adamant about beating Shawn. Shawn I think...counting tag team matches...has only defeated Bret 3 times. Bret on the other hand has beaten Shawn like 400 times lol.
    Because it was in Canada lol!

    I'm about a quarter of the way through the book, and though it seems that first that Julie was portrayed like a neurotic and paranoid bitch at times like chucking her ring away, Bret didn't help himself succumbing to peer pressure by having himself rubbed down by Japanese pussy.

    Fair enough on his honesty though. Also I love the Dynamite Kid anecdotes.
    Last edited by Badger; September 8th, 2019 at 6:38 PM.

  37. #37
    Intercontinental Champion Jarrod1983's Avatar
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    Yeah Bret didn't pull any punches with his wandering eye. Julie didn't seem to help herself out though.

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