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Thread: RIP Ashley Massaro

  1. #1
    Why so serious? Damien's Avatar
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    portugal
    Damn.

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    Legend Badger's Avatar
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    Fuuuuuck.

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    Damn man, who saw that coming?

    She was only 39.

  5. #5
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    39, damn. RIP

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    She was responding fan mail the other day too

    Imagine reading this then receiving something in the mail
    Last edited by mr sabu; May 16th, 2019 at 9:39 PM.

  7. #7
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    usa
    https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2...xKN/story.html

    Part beauty queen, part ring performer, Ashley Massaro was sent to Kuwait in 2006 by World Wrestling Entertainment to visit American troops. During the trip, as a civil war raged in neighboring Iraq, Massaro — then known as Ashley, a WWE diva — was sexually assaulted at a US military base, she alleges in a lawsuit against the WWE.

    Massaro, who became a Playboy cover girl and “Survivor: China’’ contestant during her WWE tenure, says she was examined by a company physician after she returned from Kuwait. She alleges the doctor reported the incident to WWE executives, who met with her “to apologize for their negligence, but WWE persuaded her that it would be best not to report it to appropriate authorities.’’
    In Massaro’s case, the former WWE star alleges she suffered several concussions, including one that rendered her unconscious for five minutes in the ring, while she performed for the company from 2005 to 2008. Massaro says she received no care after she was knocked out and alleges she was told to “shake it off.’’

    Massaro, now 37 and living on Long Island, says she has undergone debilitating behavioral changes since she left the WWE, including developing a drug addiction, which the company helped her treat in 2010.

    She alleges she suffers depression, anxiety, memory loss, and migraine headaches, all of which have been associated with CTE, a disease that can only be diagnosed through a postmortem autopsy.

    The physical toll from her WWE career, Massaro alleges, also included a hairline fracture of her spine, two herniated disks, and an ankle fracture that required the insertion of a five-inch metal plate to repair.

    A knuckle on her right hand also was shattered. Massaro asserts that WWE chief executive Vince McMahon ordered a backstage crew to saw the cast off her hand several weeks before it was scheduled to be removed so she could perform in an event that night.
    The WWE classifies its performers as independent contractors rather than employees, which means the athletes do not enjoy union protection and many state and federal employee rights. Massaro alleges in her lawsuit that the WWE requires performers to “sign your life away.’’

  8. #8
    E-Bow The Poster Rancid_Planet's Avatar
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    Yeah that era of "put the models in the ring" was fucking abhorrent. Ashley was one of many women who, clearly without much training, were asked to do shit way above their pay grade.

  9. #9
    I'm Mick James, Bitch. Spudz Mackenzie's Avatar
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    It just goes to show you the danger of putting a person with a "show, not go" body in the ring.

    Ashley was a strikingly attractive woman, but there's no intelligent human being in wrestling who should have expected a person hired for her bust size to take bumps with as little actual training as she had.

    She came up in a competition that had one of the girls sit on a pie and say her ass was hungry. Its not exactly NXT.

  10. #10
    Alpha Kenny Bod He Randolph's Avatar
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    canada
    It's reading stuff like that which makes me realize that while I wish WWE would move away from the PG era, I do not want everything from 1997-2007 to return. I am really sad that she passed and hope the truth comes out in the immediate future.

  11. #11
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    Very sad news.

  12. #12
    Alpha Kenny Bod He Randolph's Avatar
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    canada
    Starting yo sound that it might be suicide. What a sad end.

  13. #13
    Legend Badger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randolph View Post
    Starting yo sound that it might be suicide. What a sad end.
    Yeah I think so too. Possibly by overdose as the article Bill mentioned said she had a drug addiction.

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    World Champion Donald's Avatar
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    demrepcongo
    It is illegal to commit suicide, and since the death was "non-criminal", it has to be something else.

  15. #15
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    Just got done watching her season of Survivor about 2 weeks ago.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donald View Post
    It is illegal to commit suicide, and since the death was "non-criminal", it has to be something else.
    Fair point. I still think it may be addiction though, like Eddie who was clean and getting better but the body gave up due to the previous toll over the years.

  17. #17
    Alpha Kenny Bod He Randolph's Avatar
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    canada
    I have to think non-criminal means that she didn't meet with foul play. i have never heard of suicide be called by authorities as criminal, especially if the suicide was completed and not just an attempt.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randolph View Post
    I have to think non-criminal means that she didn't meet with foul play. i have never heard of suicide be called by authorities as criminal, especially if the suicide was completed and not just an attempt.
    That is also a fair point.

    Only going by the article here and more info may come to light later but thinking addiction.

  19. #19
    World Champion Donald's Avatar
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    demrepcongo
    If she gets cremated she'd be Ashley

  20. #20
    Alpha Kenny Bod He Randolph's Avatar
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    canada
    Quote Originally Posted by Donald View Post
    If she gets cremated she'd be Ashley
    You're going to hell when you die..... And she'd be a Mass of Ash, or an Ash Mass.

  21. #21
    World Champion Donald's Avatar
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    demrepcongo
    It's my way of grieving. I get extremely sad whenever someone from the world of pro wrestling dies.

  22. #22
    Legend Badger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donald View Post
    It's my way of grieving. I get extremely sad whenever someone from the world of pro wrestling dies.
    I was the same about Benoit. I cracked cheesy jokes on here which Tempest (mod at the time who hated my cheesy jokes) quite rightly called me out on at the time. He was in my fave five of all time. I was crying with joy when he made HHH tap but crying even harder with shock and disbelief after what he had done so went on the cheesy jokes.
    Last edited by Badger; May 17th, 2019 at 9:19 PM.

  23. #23
    Intercontinental Champion Melly's Avatar
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    Heartbreaking.

  24. #24
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    I was shocked to read this. I always liked her and hoped she'd be back one day. I thought her with London and Kendrick was pretty good and then stuff happened.
    Such a shame.

  25. #25
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    Indeed.

  26. #26
    E-Bow The Poster Rancid_Planet's Avatar
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    The posts from her daughter have been heartbreaking.

    Whatever the cause it really does break the heart. I've read tons of interviews with her over the years and regardless of her in ring skill she always came across as a sweet woman who truly enjoyed entertaining. She seemed to have a pretty decent head on her shoulders too which is why it's all the more sad that she developed drug issues and other problems later on.

    She was classy and beautiful and it's just a sad sad thing that she's gone.

  27. #27
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    brazil
    Ashley Massaro recently died. Her affadavit when she sued WWE includes her being encouraged by Vince McMahon not to report that she was drugged and raped by US military staff while on tour in Kuwait. Content warning - this is sickening reading.
    https://old.reddit.com/r/SquaredCirc...ffidavit_when/

    https://twitter.com/ChrisBrosnahan/s...94890492198912

    Jesus. Revolting indeed.

  28. #28
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    I came here to post that. Incredibly fucked up and depressing. I don't know how much longer I can continue to support a company like this.

  29. #29
    Wolfpac Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    So basically nobody was there to confirm this, she apologized for even being part of the lawsuit admitting she was taken advantage of by the scumbag idiot who tried to piece these dumbass lawsuits against the WWE together and failed miserably. And since she can't defend herself either way, we just go "OH the WWE are so vile I'm boycotting"

    The sad thing is, this story is going to make the rounds and the last memories people will have will be this STORY. A story that never came up in 10 years, that only came up when she was part of that corny class action lawsuit where guys like Horshu were trying to say in the 1 year he was in the WWE all his health issues happened lol. Let's also mention that none of this info was available until she passed which that in of itself is strange.

    Wrestling fans, we need to stop acting like the middle-aged women who buy tabloids glorifying this type of shit. Especially at the expense of the deceased.

  30. #30
    World Champion Donald's Avatar
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    demrepcongo
    Call it vile, revolting all you want, y'all are still gonna be watching 1, 2, 8 years down the road. It's not like WWE hasn't done shady shit 20, 30, 40 years ago. And here we are. Still watching. Wrestler died at an event, show went on. Exploiting another wrestler's death. Cover up of a murder. Steroid allegations. Racist angles. Racist gimmicks. Necrophilia on TV. Women barking like dogs. etc. etc.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donald View Post
    Call it vile, revolting all you want, y'all are still gonna be watching 1, 2, 8 years down the road. It's not like WWE hasn't done shady shit 20, 30, 40 years ago. And here we are. Still watching. Wrestler died at an event, show went on. Exploiting another wrestler's death. Cover up of a murder. Steroid allegations. Racist angles. Racist gimmicks. Necrophilia on TV. Women barking like dogs. etc. etc.
    EXACTLY.

    The funny thing is, everyone I know who doesn't watch WWE anymore it's usually one of two things: #1-grew out of it, #2-the booking. #1 is almost 99.9% of the time as the people who give a shit about booking are always marks like us and they eventually come back. lol. My cousin Scott who used to tell me he was really the Warlord didn't go "I stopped watching because Warlord was getting booked like a jobber."

  32. #32
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    I know this is not the subject but I don't think it's because 99% grew out of it. I think a lot has to do with bad storylines and no cool characters to get behind.

  33. #33
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    Turns out cause of death was suicide via hanging according to TMZ

  34. #34
    Wolfpac Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PurePlayer View Post
    I know this is not the subject but I don't think it's because 99% grew out of it. I think a lot has to do with bad storylines and no cool characters to get behind.
    Go around your job and ask everyone if they watch wrestling. When they tell you no ask them when they stopped or if they ever watched. I have about 1200 people on my FB, even more on my twitter and IG. I almost never see anyone talking about wrestling unless they run a wrestling fan page or they're a wrestler themselves lol.

    Trust me, I wouldn't watch if I didn't have 2 sons. My oldest son kept me interested during a stretch oh I'd say from 2005-2010. But I was also getting back heavily into MMA around 2002-2003. And I remember Dana White in a Playboy interview saying WWE is what you watch as a kid/teen, the UFC is what you watch as an adult.

    In the 90's, none of the adults in my life watched wrestling like I do today. You wouldn't catch my uncle watching Raw in 1998. He'd watch it and go "Man I remember when this shit was real when Junkyard Dog and Hulk Hogan were in their prime" lol. People our age that still watch, it's either for our kids or we're smark fans who can't let go. They could have the greatest storylines in the world, most adults don't watch pro wrestling the same way they watch the NFL or Big Bang.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by PurePlayer View Post
    Turns out cause of death was suicide via hanging according to TMZ
    Brutal.

  35. #35
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    Honestly, I had a conversation about it this morning with someone at work who was asking me about the 24/7 belt (he saw it on social media). He literally said he stopped watching around 2007 ish because the storylines and characters started getting lame. I can't say I blame him. That was during the Cena vs the world years and while you could consider cena a draw, I bet his storyline or character drew people away as well.

    I'm sure there are a lot of people out there that say they grew out of it or think it's still for kids. I bet if the stories were better, people would come back regardless of age

  36. #36
    World Champion Donald's Avatar
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    demrepcongo
    I'm the only one of my friends who still watches. We used to have monthly PPV parties. I have never thought to ask why no one else watches anymore, but I always assumed because they only tuned in for the Attitude era run. I was the only one I knew who watched it from 1990-1996, 1997. Then everyone watched it, by the early 2000s no one watched it anymroe.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by PurePlayer View Post
    Honestly, I had a conversation about it this morning with someone at work who was asking me about the 24/7 belt (he saw it on social media). He literally said he stopped watching around 2007 ish because the storylines and characters started getting lame. I can't say I blame him. That was during the Cena vs the world years and while you could consider cena a draw, I bet his storyline or character drew people away as well.

    I'm sure there are a lot of people out there that say they grew out of it or think it's still for kids. I bet if the stories were better, people would come back regardless of age
    Right.

    Quote Originally Posted by Donald View Post
    I'm the only one of my friends who still watches. We used to have monthly PPV parties. I have never thought to ask why no one else watches anymore, but I always assumed because they only tuned in for the Attitude era run. I was the only one I knew who watched it from 1990-1996, 1997. Then everyone watched it, by the early 2000s no one watched it anymroe.
    It was the same for me. Growing up I had 1 friend who watched wrestling, so we're talking say 1988-early 1996. When the nWo popped off in 1996 I started somewhat noticing more fans in my high school, probably because there were more kids lol.

    But specifically remember when everything blew up at my HS. I was 3rd row at the Nitro after the 1st Souled Out ppv. Camera was on us the entire time. The next day I go to school and like 30 motherfuckers, ranging from super preppy dudes to punk rock cats, all came up to me saying they saw me on Nitro and it blew my wig. I couldn't believe all these people liked wrestling and some used to make fun of me for watching it just a year prior when I rocked an nWo shirt during a talent show lol.

    But none of our parents watched it. To be honest, all of our parents hated it. They couldn't believe that pro wrestling went the route it did especially with the WWF. Titties and cussing and blood everywhere. People don't realize how many big sponsors they lost and/or wouldn't touch the product despite the insane ratings it was getting. But I never knew anyone my age now that actually watched, I know there were plenty because they were all in the crowd but it was also super popular. And the storylines were pretty fucking whack for the most part back then as well.

  38. #38
    Intercontinental Champion BigAl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nash Diesel View Post
    Right.



    It was the same for me. Growing up I had 1 friend who watched wrestling, so we're talking say 1988-early 1996. When the nWo popped off in 1996 I started somewhat noticing more fans in my high school, probably because there were more kids lol.

    But specifically remember when everything blew up at my HS. I was 3rd row at the Nitro after the 1st Souled Out ppv. Camera was on us the entire time. The next day I go to school and like 30 motherfuckers, ranging from super preppy dudes to punk rock cats, all came up to me saying they saw me on Nitro and it blew my wig. I couldn't believe all these people liked wrestling and some used to make fun of me for watching it just a year prior when I rocked an nWo shirt during a talent show lol.

    But none of our parents watched it. To be honest, all of our parents hated it. They couldn't believe that pro wrestling went the route it did especially with the WWF. Titties and cussing and blood everywhere. People don't realize how many big sponsors they lost and/or wouldn't touch the product despite the insane ratings it was getting. But I never knew anyone my age now that actually watched, I know there were plenty because they were all in the crowd but it was also super popular. And the storylines were pretty fucking whack for the most part back then as well.
    Yeah that's similar to my high school as well. My sophomore year, so we're talking '98, the senior class had an indy show as their fundraiser in the gym. It was packed. Standing room only after the bleacher seats sold out. Bonkers, and the class made enough money to pay for their year books, their prom, and I think their class trip. It was King Kong Bundy and a bunch of guys nobody knew and it was awesome. You'd think the crowd was watching 'Mania the way we reacted to things.

    My dad still watches it though, and I know one other guy my age who still watches.

  39. #39
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    We are way off subject now lol but how many fans do you guys think started watching wrestling in the last 5 years that didn't watch during the attitude era. Let's exclude kids since they weren't alive. Let's use the 18-40 age group. I bet not many

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by PurePlayer View Post
    We are way off subject now lol but how many fans do you guys think started watching wrestling in the last 5 years that didn't watch during the attitude era. Let's exclude kids since they weren't alive. Let's use the 18-40 age group. I bet not many
    Because there aren't that many people 18-40 in general who watch pro wrestling who weren't already watching. Yet specifically the WWE makes more money now than they have in any mega popular era such as the Rock N Wrestling 80's or the Attitude Era.

  41. #41
    World Champion Donald's Avatar
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    demrepcongo
    I bet Ashley Massaro is somewhere smiling that we're talking about the loss of wrestling fans in her dead thread.

  42. #42
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    I bet Ashley Massaro would have been shocked that there were 42 posts in her dead thread.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Donald View Post
    I bet Ashley Massaro is somewhere smiling that we're talking about the loss of wrestling fans in her dead thread.
    Probably better than us talking about the weird story that surfaced after she killed herself where she was apparently raped by someone in the military.

    But you have a great point. So with that said, was she last the woman from the WWE to do Playboy? She was so fucking beautiful. She was like a mix of Trish, Lita, and Hot Topic.

  44. #44
    World Champion Donald's Avatar
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    demrepcongo
    If I'm not mistaken, Maria was the last to do Playboy, and the first to do it best.

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    Not a Maria fan

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    Wolfpac Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Maria is so fucking hot. She looks like she could destroy a man's cock worse than Ramsay Bolton did Theon Greyjoy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Donald View Post
    Call it vile, revolting all you want, y'all are still gonna be watching 1, 2, 8 years down the road. It's not like WWE hasn't done shady shit 20, 30, 40 years ago. And here we are. Still watching. Wrestler died at an event, show went on. Exploiting another wrestler's death. Cover up of a murder. Steroid allegations. Racist angles. Racist gimmicks. Necrophilia on TV. Women barking like dogs. etc. etc.
    Suppose... just hypothetically of course... that I stopped watching 12 years ago, and it was absolutely because I was uncomfortable and unhappy supporting a company that treated its workers in this manner. In that case, can I say out loud how fucked up a rape coverup is?

    Though I'm sure you'd say she's lying about the rape coverup. Because accusing the military of rape in a sealed document and then having that come out after you die is a well-known stepping stone to riches and popularity.

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    This cover up is appalling. Fuck Vince

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    No doubt he would have counselled the same if it was Steph.

    I don't know what to say.

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    Vince is a massive fucking weirdo. It's amazing that a publically floated company hasn't ousted the mad cunt yet. I can't imagine the things the legal department have managed to sweep under the rug all these years. The wrestling industry has managed to come away from Operation Yewtree and Me Too relatively scot-free, which is astonishing considering the amount of evidence that is out there from the guys themselves! Marty Jannetty revels in the stories of the "good old days" of drugging women on airplanes and sodomizing them. It's all out in plain sight, yet nothing's been done.

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    World Champion Donald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hacksaw View Post

    Though I'm sure you'd say she's lying about the rape coverup. Because accusing the military of rape in a sealed document and then having that come out after you die is a well-known stepping stone to riches and popularity.
    I wouldn't say she's lying. While I do think people tend to believe the women in rape accusations, I don't think that's the case in this situation because why would she make it up? Though I'd likely bet that she didn't say anything in fear of losing her job, which is hard to know unless you're in her shoes but in my opinion no job is worth that.

    As far as WWE, so many companies, corporations, and countries have such nasty stigma attached to them. The key is to do stop those wrong doings from happening again and moving forward with the best foot, which since Chris Benoit's death I feel the WWE is trying to do. Concussion testing, more and more charities. I think that if the Ashley Massaro incident happened today, it would have been handled a lot differently than it did 10-15 years ago. And that may be a sad fact, but knowing progress is being made in the company makes me somewhat happy.

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    They won't progress until Vince is retired or dead.

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    we are all assuming this is true and it could be. it might not be. so going off and condemning one party or the other probably isn't fair.

    Ashley obviously had issues. Some of her issues could be because of this situation or this story is being told because of her issues. can't say for sure either way. Why isn't this rape cover up some huge story right now?

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    Because we have a nut sack dipped in cheeto dust for a president wiping his ass with the face of America and don't have time for it.

    Seriously though. It's because she's a wrestler.

    You can learn to fly and become superman but if you were previously a wrestler the media isn't interested.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Romford Pele View Post
    They won't progress until Vince is retired or dead.
    That's almost as absurd as what you said about the population of Earth.

    How have the not progressed? I'll wait.

    Quote Originally Posted by PurePlayer View Post
    we are all assuming this is true and it could be. it might not be. so going off and condemning one party or the other probably isn't fair.

    Ashley obviously had issues. Some of her issues could be because of this situation or this story is being told because of her issues. can't say for sure either way. Why isn't this rape cover up some huge story right now?
    This did surface on the main page of Yahoo. I only know that because it's my homepage at work and I saw the reveal of her death and the part about the rape.

    But who knows if it's true. She's dead so she can't necessarily say it is or isn't.

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    World Champion Donald's Avatar
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    I saw WWE put out a statement. Didn't read all of it but they said something about that lawyer throwing a bunch of lawsuits agains them.

    Here it is:

    "WWE is saddened by the death of Ashley Massaro, and we reiterate our condolences to her family. However, we regret that her attorney Konstantine Kyros, who filed multiple cases against WWE, lost all of them, and was sanctioned multiple times by the Court for repeated misconduct and false allegations, is using Ashley’s death to further his malicious campaign against WWE by releasing an affidavit that she submitted to the Court and later apologized to WWE for being involved with, so we wish to make certain things crystal clear.At no time was Vince McMahon or the management of WWE ever informed by Ashley Massaro or anybody else that she had been sexually assaulted, drugged, raped or sodomized by a military doctor with a nurse standing guard while on a goodwill tour in 2007 to U.S. military bases in Kuwait. In fact, if she ever articulated such a claim to WWE, we would have reported it immediately to the Base Commander.At no time was there ever a meeting with Vince McMahon, Kevin Dunn, John Laurinaitis or other company executives in which she told them of such a claim and was instructed to keep it quiet."


    Maybe this Kyros lawyer guy conjured up this story. Who knows? No one does, no one ever will.
    Last edited by Donald; May 23rd, 2019 at 11:33 AM.

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    The choice of words by the WWE is telling. I get the impression that her "later apologized to the WWE for being involved with" only came after the class action concussion lawsuit was dismissed.

    The WWE made it clear to include the words "by a military doctor with a nurse standing guard " because in her complaint, she makes it very clear she does not know who the individual attacker's identity was.

    Whether the specifics of this incident are valid to her best recollection, the rest of the information in her affidavit still paints a damaging picture of the environment. As for the concussion lawsuit that she was part of - I can understand why it was dismissed as the vast majority of folks who were part of the suit like Road Warrior Animal and the late Jimmy Snuka incurred lots of concussions well before their time in WWF/WWE. But I think Ashley Massaro had a different, better argument, as she never had training nor wrestling experience prior to coming to the WWE in the Diva Search competition.

    It makes me think she simply had terrible legal representation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 3puppies View Post
    The choice of words by the WWE is telling. I get the impression that her "later apologized to the WWE for being involved with" only came after the class action concussion lawsuit was dismissed.

    The WWE made it clear to include the words "by a military doctor with a nurse standing guard " because in her complaint, she makes it very clear she does not know who the individual attacker's identity was.

    Whether the specifics of this incident are valid to her best recollection, the rest of the information in her affidavit still paints a damaging picture of the environment. As for the concussion lawsuit that she was part of - I can understand why it was dismissed as the vast majority of folks who were part of the suit like Road Warrior Animal and the late Jimmy Snuka incurred lots of concussions well before their time in WWF/WWE. But I think Ashley Massaro had a different, better argument, as she never had training nor wrestling experience prior to coming to the WWE in the Diva Search competition.

    It makes me think she simply had terrible legal representation.
    I hate to speak ill of the dead, but she had a lot of issues post-WWE. I remember she went above and beyond to try and prove she wasn't a call girl, which she was. This lawsuit, like with pretty much everyone involved, felt it was going to be along the lines of what happened to the NFL. It didn't work out that way. So you have a laundry list of almost entirely nothing but mid-low card talent sans maybe Demolition who didn't get the big payday like they were hoping that this dumbass shit lawyer promised them.

    The fucked up part is wanting to believe this happened but then do we believe that she even contacted the WWE? Where's the actual proof of that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nash Diesel View Post
    That's almost as absurd as what you said about the population of Earth.

    How have the not progressed? I'll wait.



    This did surface on the main page of Yahoo. I only know that because it's my homepage at work and I saw the reveal of her death and the part about the rape.

    But who knows if it's true. She's dead so she can't necessarily say it is or isn't.
    Coming from you I take it as a compliment.

    Lack of wrestlers union
    Lack of proper medical care
    Making wrestlers independent contractors when they are nothing of the sort
    How he has treated women

    Shall I go on?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Romford Pele View Post
    Coming from you I take it as a compliment.

    Lack of wrestlers union
    Lack of proper medical care
    Making wrestlers independent contractors when they are nothing of the sort
    How he has treated women

    Shall I go on?
    I think they've progressed in many other ways though, like concussion testing, the wellness policy, and cleaned up the act backstage and in lifestyle choices.

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    We'll never know whether they'd have been proactive rather than reactive. Wellness policy was installed after a man with known historic drug issues passed away on their watch. Concussion testing was after Chris Benoit murdered his family and test's showed he had a brain with signs of advanced Alzheimer's. Blading was taken away due to the shift to PG programming and the sponsors that change could land. The locker room issues have correlation with the guys not being pilled off their bonce. Would those changes have come about without the tragic deaths of Benoit and Guerrero? Who knows.

    What we do know about Vince is that he's happy to do business with Saudi Arabia for a buck. He has a history of allegations regarding sexual misconduct. He's a fiercely driven individual and has traits of being a sociopath. I wouldn't at all be shocked that this Ashley story is true, but likewise it's not fair to assume it is just based on Vince's character profile.

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    Wolfpac Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Romford Pele View Post
    Coming from you I take it as a compliment.

    Lack of wrestlers union
    Lack of proper medical care
    Making wrestlers independent contractors when they are nothing of the sort
    How he has treated women

    Shall I go on?
    Why is a wrestlers union something that needs to happen? How many unions have there been in the history of the sport? Where's the Ring of Honor wrestlers union? Where was the WCW wrestlers union? Why is this on Vince?

    Proper medical care??? You do realize we're talking about the WWE. The same company who foots the bill on all types of surgeries, they foot the bill for rehab for talent that spent anywhere from a decade to 1 match in the company.

    The independent contractor situation I'll give you but I bet you have about as much of a clue as your bf Jon Oliver did.

    How he treated women? You're right, pro wrestling has never really been kind to women like they were to the men but 2 things: Who main evented WM this year and show me how he's still mistreating them? Seriously. Fuck booking, we could spend all day on that, the men would trump the women because there are way more men in this sport than women. But other than booking, what specifically is Vince and the WWE doing that bothers you? Seems to me like he's pretty fucking high on women in the WWE.

    Quote Originally Posted by Donald View Post
    I think they've progressed in many other ways though, like concussion testing, the wellness policy, and cleaned up the act backstage and in lifestyle choices.
    Yes. Do you know how rare it is now to hear about a wrestler dying in their 30's and 40's. Back in the 90's into the early early 00's it seemed like every week another star from the old days, not necessarily a WWF guy but just wrestlers in general.

    The WWE have shown massive progression. More than any wrestling promotion in the history of the business. Which is why so many are quick to call out the WWE when they have really no clue what they're talking about.

  63. #63
    Wolfpac Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fanny Batter View Post
    We'll never know whether they'd have been proactive rather than reactive. Wellness policy was installed after a man with known historic drug issues passed away on their watch. Concussion testing was after Chris Benoit murdered his family and test's showed he had a brain with signs of advanced Alzheimer's. Blading was taken away due to the shift to PG programming and the sponsors that change could land. The locker room issues have correlation with the guys not being pilled off their bonce. Would those changes have come about without the tragic deaths of Benoit and Guerrero? Who knows.

    What we do know about Vince is that he's happy to do business with Saudi Arabia for a buck. He has a history of allegations regarding sexual misconduct. He's a fiercely driven individual and has traits of being a sociopath. I wouldn't at all be shocked that this Ashley story is true, but likewise it's not fair to assume it is just based on Vince's character profile.
    Does it matter how the Wellness Policy came to be? You mean to tell me every other sport was ahead of the curve? Nope. It took an accumulation of deaths and suicides before organizations like the NFL started giving a shit. They didn't have the science to understand concussions and the long term effects of simply being on the road and bumping in the ring had on you. So don't downplay the significance of these things because would you rather they NOT have a Wellness policy and go above and beyond with concussions and all that?

    A lot of people do business with countries that aren't as progressive as the Western countries just for a buck. I would bet most of the shit you own comes from a country you would have moral objections toward but you will buy products made from there.

    Kind of shocked you of all people are downplaying the improvements they've made in the well-being of their talent and former talent.

  64. #64
    World Champion Donald's Avatar
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    I mean America's not a squeaky clean country, nor is the UK by any means.

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    Not a fan of the soapbox routine some wrestling fans tend to do.

    "We don't know if they would have been proactive" We don't know shit because they were. They had enough. Eddie fucking died and they built the Wellness off that. Chris Benoit killed his family supposedly and people act like that was normal in any aspect of entertainment/sports.

    We need to be thankful for the WWE. They have and always will set the tone for making positive changes. There isn't a single promotion today or in the past that has even come close to doing what the WWE has done. Everything from drug testing policy to charity work to providing life beyond pro wrestling. Where's ROH at? Where's Impact? What did WCW ever do? Nothing even remotely close.

    WWE didn't go "Oh look at Ring of Honor and how they pay for all their talents surgeries and continue to pay for their time sitting at home for 13 months. Oh and they also pay for rehab!" Fuck no they don't, none of them do and never will. Including the new girl in class AEW.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nash Diesel View Post
    Why is a wrestlers union something that needs to happen? How many unions have there been in the history of the sport? Where's the Ring of Honor wrestlers union? Where was the WCW wrestlers union? Why is this on Vince?

    Proper medical care??? You do realize we're talking about the WWE. The same company who foots the bill on all types of surgeries, they foot the bill for rehab for talent that spent anywhere from a decade to 1 match in the company.

    The independent contractor situation I'll give you but I bet you have about as much of a clue as your bf Jon Oliver did.

    How he treated women? You're right, pro wrestling has never really been kind to women like they were to the men but 2 things: Who main evented WM this year and show me how he's still mistreating them? Seriously. Fuck booking, we could spend all day on that, the men would trump the women because there are way more men in this sport than women. But other than booking, what specifically is Vince and the WWE doing that bothers you? Seems to me like he's pretty fucking high on women in the WWE.



    Yes. Do you know how rare it is now to hear about a wrestler dying in their 30's and 40's. Back in the 90's into the early early 00's it seemed like every week another star from the old days, not necessarily a WWF guy but just wrestlers in general.

    The WWE have shown massive progression. More than any wrestling promotion in the history of the business. Which is why so many are quick to call out the WWE when they have really no clue what they're talking about.
    Nice homophobic comment there when saying I am right. You are a bigger WWE cheerleader than PG.

    WWE has only 'progressed' when they had no option.

    No steroids - after Vince's trial
    Wellness testing - after Eddie died
    Concussion testing - after Benoit
    Women's revolution - they got called out on twitter

  67. #67
    World Champion Donald's Avatar
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    Why is being a WWE cheerleader a bad thing? If it's what you enjoy?

    Sometimes it takes tragedies to spark change. Columbine happens, you beef up school security. 9/11 happens you beef up passenger checking. Chris Benoit dies, you find out why and do your best to prevent it from happening again. NFL concussions they didn't know about the effects for a long time, and I don't watch the stupid sport but I'm sure they've made rule changes to benefit the safety of the players.

    Would you rather them not have done anything after those instances? They continue using steroids after Vince's trial?
    Last edited by Donald; May 24th, 2019 at 9:35 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Donald View Post
    Why is being a WWE cheerleader a bad thing? If it's what you enjoy?

    Sometimes it takes tragedies to spark change. Columbine happens, you beef up school security. 9/11 happens you beef up passenger checking. Chris Benoit dies, you find out why and do your best to prevent it from happening again. NFL concussions they didn't know about the effects for a long time, and I don't watch the stupid sport but I'm sure they've made rule changes to benefit the safety of the players.

    Would you rather them not have done anything after those instances? They continue using steroids after Vince's trial?
    spot on besides the stupid sport part

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    Quote Originally Posted by PurePlayer View Post
    spot on besides the stupid sport part
    I can't get past the slapping of the butt part, though I do watch half naked men fake fight each other weekly so...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Romford Pele View Post
    Nice homophobic comment there when saying I am right. You are a bigger WWE cheerleader than PG.

    WWE has only 'progressed' when they had no option.

    No steroids - after Vince's trial
    Wellness testing - after Eddie died
    Concussion testing - after Benoit
    Women's revolution - they got called out on twitter
    Homophobic comment? BF=Best Friend. Where's your head at?

    And again, show me a major entertainment/sport entity that was ahead of all this as well and I'll show you the end of a rainbow with a pot of gold.

    I'm pretty sure they were drug testing before Vince's trial.

    LIke I said, the Wellenss/Concussion testing, they've always had a drug testing policy but the Wellness is a step above which they had the same guy who did the NFL's do their's. The science wasn't there about concussions and their lasting effects until right around this time, anyone with a computer could look that up.

    Women's revolution tied in with a lot of females breaking ground in other sports like Ronda Rousey in MMA for example. The WWE doesn't have an obligation to cater their brand of pro wrestling to women do they? The ratio of men to women is lopsided like your head from the massive dent. And no other wrestling promotion sans the all-women promotions like SHIMMER are even remotely close to what the WWE have been doing with their women over the years except a few short bursts in TNA.

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    It's like I cringe when seeing Daniel Bryan or Lars Sullivan do the diving headbutt, just because of Chris Benoit. But if Chris Benoit had never done that move I wouldn't think anything of it. In fact I'm fine watching Bam Bam Bigelow do it in older clips because he did it way before Benoit.

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    The thing about Benoit doing the diving headbutt in older clips that makes me cringe so much is how he preceded it with the throat-slashing gesture. The harm he does to himself with the headbutt pales in comparison to what he did in strangling his wife and little boy.

    I am more inclined than not to believe Ashley Massaro's affidavit. And I also agree that a fair amount of progress has been made. But just because progress has been made doesn't mean they've done nearly enough yet. It doesn't have to be an either / or situation. People can appreciate parts of their product and still want to see them make more progress.

  73. #73
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    Romford you are a tool, Firstly I haven't been a cheerleader for WWE but whatever. Secondly someone saying have a bf is not fucking homophobic. If anything you are the one with a agenda AGAINST WWE. Are they perfect? fuck no. Are they the devil ?no. In summary get in the water.

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    Get back to shouting at clouds PG

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nash Diesel View Post
    Homophobic comment? BF=Best Friend. Where's your head at?

    And again, show me a major entertainment/sport entity that was ahead of all this as well and I'll show you the end of a rainbow with a pot of gold.

    I'm pretty sure they were drug testing before Vince's trial.

    LIke I said, the Wellenss/Concussion testing, they've always had a drug testing policy but the Wellness is a step above which they had the same guy who did the NFL's do their's. The science wasn't there about concussions and their lasting effects until right around this time, anyone with a computer could look that up.

    Women's revolution tied in with a lot of females breaking ground in other sports like Ronda Rousey in MMA for example. The WWE doesn't have an obligation to cater their brand of pro wrestling to women do they? The ratio of men to women is lopsided like your head from the massive dent. And no other wrestling promotion sans the all-women promotions like SHIMMER are even remotely close to what the WWE have been doing with their women over the years except a few short bursts in TNA.
    The first guy to get fired for steroid use was Warrior in 92 at the time of the trial. They weren't doing it before that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Griffin View Post
    Romford you are a tool, Firstly I haven't been a cheerleader for WWE but whatever. Secondly someone saying have a bf is not fucking homophobic. If anything you are the one with a agenda AGAINST WWE. Are they perfect? fuck no. Are they the devil ?no. In summary get in the water.
    Also, how many times have you been banned for flaming Defrost when he would troll you with anti-WWE posts?
    Last edited by Romford Pele; May 24th, 2019 at 2:45 PM.

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Romford Pele View Post
    The first guy to get fired for steroid use was Warrior in 92 at the time of the trial. They weren't doing it before that.
    Prior to 1992 how big of a deal was using steroids in a fake sport? Were they cracking down on Hollywood because I promise you Arnold and Sly Stallone weren't getting that big naturally.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Donald View Post
    Why is being a WWE cheerleader a bad thing? If it's what you enjoy?

    Sometimes it takes tragedies to spark change. Columbine happens, you beef up school security. 9/11 happens you beef up passenger checking. Chris Benoit dies, you find out why and do your best to prevent it from happening again. NFL concussions they didn't know about the effects for a long time, and I don't watch the stupid sport but I'm sure they've made rule changes to benefit the safety of the players.

    Would you rather them not have done anything after those instances? They continue using steroids after Vince's trial?
    Of course I want them to change and it is good they did. But they did that because they HAD too, not because it was the right thing to do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Romford Pele View Post
    Of course I want them to change and it is good they did. But they did that because they HAD too, not because it was the right thing to do.
    Half the shit you talked about, they didn't even know what the right thing to do was. So back in 1960 when the WWWF was created, they should have known about CTE?

    Everything else you and some others are rambling about just doesn't make any sense. Where's the timeline for when they should have been proactive? Steroids? Is this a real sport? Nope. Give WWE props, they are the only wrestling promotion in the world that gives a shit about their talent's well being. Where's AEW's Wellness Policy? 99% of the wrestling promotions on the planet don't even do standard drug testing.

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nash Diesel View Post
    Prior to 1992 how big of a deal was using steroids in a fake sport? Were they cracking down on Hollywood because I promise you Arnold and Sly Stallone weren't getting that big naturally.
    How is that relevant is how big a deal they were pre 1992?They are clearly dangerous and no doubt were contributors to a number of wrestling deaths.

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    they weren't even illegal for the longest time.

    blame the government.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Romford Pele View Post
    How is that relevant is how big a deal they were pre 1992?They are clearly dangerous and no doubt were contributors to a number of wrestling deaths.
    It's extremely relevant. Wrestlers in 1992 were not dying due to steroid use. Most wrestlers' deaths aren't even necessarily attributed to steroids as much as the lifestyle of doing hard drugs like cocaine and drinking like fish. Wrestlers are still doing steroids and you barely hear about anyone dying of enlarged hearts. Yet wrestlers still fail Wellness policies for PEDs.

    You probably never really paid close attention to professional athletes on steroids until the late 90's early 2000's because back in the 70's, 80's, and early early 90's it wasn't that major of a deal. And now they've corrected that as best as any organization can. Find me any entertainment company who is failing people for steroids lol. Good luck.

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    I would put a million dollars on it that if you made a list of wrestlers who died from 1985-2000 you would be hard to find a single wrestler who's death is solely attributed to steroid usage. Brian Pillman for example. He had been dealing with heart issues his whole life just like the throat cancer, his dad died of a heart attack at a young age as well. Ultimate Warrior, his dad died at like 50 of a heart attack. Rick Rude took a dick pill and it killed him.

    Nancy Grace will tell you Texas Tornado and Dino Bravo died of steroid/concussion related issues.

    I would bet the house that maybe 2% of all wrestlers deaths were solely due to taking steroids. Maybe even less.

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    If steroids killed all the wrestlers, it's amazing Hulk Hogan is still going

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    *You must spread some reputation around before giving Nash Diesel more.* Goddamn you, Rajah!

    ON-TOPIC, so tragic to hear about Ashley and felt like they really gave her a raw deal; she should have just kept up with the catfighting and being a personality/manager and not really a wrestler-wrestler. She was plagued with injuries and the whole call-girl scandal really just demolished her. So sad since she was a lovely person, had a daughter, and just seemed totally genuine.

    OFF-TOPIC, or more on-topic with what's being discussed, the entire "independent contractor" thing boggles my mind, like, lol, I don't understand WHY people get hung up on this OR why they WANT this. My mother works as an independent contractor as a life coach for a website and she's not allowed to give out her personal information because the site's owners don't want her and other coaches "pulling clients" and working with them personally; this is because the site takes 50% of what she makes when working with a client. Conversely, in order to be advertised above all other advisors/coaches on the site, they have to "bid" to be advertised. There's like, for example, 7 pages of experts/coaches/whathaveyou... my mother doesn't want to be on page 3, she wants to be on page 1, right? Who doesn't? She has to bid her own money to be placed and, get this, that's just for people to CLICK ON HER PROFILE. This means, if they don't hire her, she still ends up having to pay the site that takes half her earnings just to advertise herself. They can also fire her at any moment. WWE isn't the only company abusing the "independent contractor" title and moreover, there's a flipside to every coin, it's not as easy-peasy as some would think.

    Being "independent contractors" isn't this glamorous thing. WWE is usually footing the bill for the major surgies and rehab and treatment, an independent contractor won't get that usually. Sunny/Tammy Sytch talked about her contract was a producer's contract so she had her wardrobe and her flights and her hotels and food all covered. The wrestlers make way more money these days, and as a result, usually can afford to live and travel pretty comfortably. Ever watch Total Divas? Eva Marie did not look like she was struggling to live comfortably... neither was Cameron, or Naomi, or Alicia Fox, Lana, Paige, even Rosa freakin' Mendes seemed to be living pretty well. Also, I can't believe we're not talking about the fact that MILITARY PERSONNEL were the ones who raped/attacked Ashley. The people who are here to protect us. That worries me and upsets me tremendously. If they're doing that to one of our own American citizens... what are they doing to people not from our land?

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