All Elite Wrestling

[Nash Diesel]

We're still seeing talent go to AEW which is good but I think the most telling part is where did the FANS go? What turned them off and what can be done over the next couple years to gain them back? I'm not even talking about ratings I'm talking about live attendance. I mean they're not doing terrible when it comes to big shows and the ppvs.

Ultimately AEW's biggest downfall right now is their core fanbase. A good chunk live on social media and preach the gospel of Meltzer and people like him. They manifest so many bullshit scenarios so they can play victim it's weird. I think not only do other hardcore fans of wrestling see it but so does the talent. Sometimes getting 900k to work 4 Collisions a year isn't worth the trouble.

[Donald Pleasence]

I'll never forget Andrade going to AEW saying he would be the face of AEW. I like you Andrade but you'll always just be a decent hand. Miro too was fucking funny.

I wish Cesaro stayed with WWE but he would flounder no matter where he wrestled.

[MTR]

The problem with some of the people that kind of bounce back and forth is not that they are not talented but no one is sure what to do with them and they get lost in the shuffle no matter what. They don't stick out quite enough to not get lost in the shuffle. They will always have short bursts and then back to just doing whatever.

[Murphy]

Cody leaving was the start.

CM Punk leaving. Being fired is irrelevant, obviously, he's back as a big star in WWE.

Vince leaving WWE and them becoming essentially hot again.

Tony Khan trying to run before he could walk, with adding Collision, too many PPVs and the ROH purchase.

I just don't see a reason to care about anyone or anything in the whole company.

Jeff Jarrett in 2025, sorry, that will never not be funny.

[Donald Pleasence]

To be fair, Vince was hot while he was in WWE.

[Murphy]

Donald?

Ha, Game of Death, got it.

[Donald Pleasence]

I hate Tony Khan. Probably not as much as Triple H, but it's there.

[Mazer]

To be fair, Vince was hot while he was in WWE.

That last few years, Vince's involvement seemed to ebb and flow from moderate to intense. Trips was definitely involved a lot. But Vince was definitely lacking consistency, imv.

Still, I give him a lot of credit for the most successful storyline in modern history-The Bloodline.

[Nash Diesel]

The way I see it...talent are still coming to AEW. Mercedes came to AEW after Cody and Punk, that was a huge addition for AEW in terms of "name value" and credibilty. Will Ospreay and Okada, despite them not being super big with casual wrestling fans in the US, they have a following and without a doubt 2 of the top wrestlers on the planet. It helps them with drawing in the Japanese wrestling fans, I can't really speak on Ospreay's level of fame in the UK but it seems like he's pretty popular so that helps too.

Yes we have seen some older folks like The Hurt Business, Edge, but despite the shit I've probably talked about Edge being a moron it's still Edge. No different than TNA grabbing Old Man Nash at 50. Legends in wrestling, especially guys who blew up in the 90's, they'll always be able to draw people in even younger fans that weren't even alive.

But I do believe like the biggest negative is the fans themselves. Money is the most important and that's why a guy like Shelton Benjamin can be like you know what, fuck these fans that don't want me in AEW I'm going to get paid more than I was in WWE and I'm also going to flip the script and make them cheer me because their all about being Team AEW. "Fuck WWE we don't want them focus on newer cats like Private Party" After they lost, "Hell Yeah Lashley and Benjamin having the best run of their careers!!!" What? lol

[Donald Pleasence]

I love Tony Khan to absolute pieces, but the man doesn't know what to do with talent. If he did, he'd still have CM Punk and not the Young Bucks. I truly believe that he does treat his talent as if they were action figures he used to play with as a child.

[Psycho666Soldier]

To be fair, Benjamin and Lashley do feel hella refreshed, and their definitely getting some of the loudest crowd reactions of everyone on the roster.

Though you can definitely say that it maybe speaks I'll of how well AEW has been at developing/booking some of their more homegrown stars

[Nash Diesel]

To be fair, Benjamin and Lashley do feel hella refreshed, and their definitely getting some of the loudest crowd reactions of everyone on the roster.

Though you can definitely say that it maybe speaks I'll of how well AEW has been at developing/booking some of their more homegrown stars

Refreshed? Benjamin is once again in a tag-team and Lashley went from being a World champion/World title contender to a tag champ in the distant 2nd company. I guess I don't understand what you mean by refreshed other than the cornball AEW sheep response of "They seem to be having fun"

I mean I'm not shocked the crowd pops for them because they pretend to dislike WWE but every single talent who made their name in WWE=over as fuck. But again, the fans are fucking weird. Shelton even addressed this in his interview with Chris. It's because that geek Max Caster said some shit and like good little sheep you all followed suit because it was an AEW talent speaking ill of a guy who can run circles around pretty much everyone in the company. I mean FFS, they signed Elias. He can't wrestle, can't talk, gimmick ran it's course.

[Nash Diesel]

I love Tony Khan to absolute pieces, but the man doesn't know what to do with talent. If he did, he'd still have CM Punk and not the Young Bucks. I truly believe that he does treat his talent as if they were action figures he used to play with as a child.

He's doing what 99% of us do. We just make matches in our head. We don't really understand how to draw a crowd. You can only bank on name value for so long. Or does history not matter? They get compared to WCW because they have so many similarites from being on the same channel, using event names, they even had Super Sting lol. But look at them, look at TNA. Eventually all that name power doesn't mean shit. I said it before, it was proved 25 years ago wrestling is super niche and there's really only room for WWE. Even WCW couldn't really do shit but those 83 weeks. By 1999 it didn't matter that they had Sting, Hogan, Bret, Nash, I mean even Goldberg. They fucked that up but I don't even think he would've really mattered because the WWF were just firing on all cylinders.

That's why WWE are competiting with Hollywood, Disney, Metallica, they don't truly care what other wrestling companies are doing because WWE has the bubble on lock. If they do anything that seems like they're fucking with AEW it's just part of the business. They're essentially bullying AEW and rightfully so. Don't go on fucking ESPN and call them the Weinstein of Wrestling and then 2 weeks later talk about how you'd love to work with WWE. Don't mention their talent, disrespect their product every week on your tv and maybe you could've had a relationship of some kind.

[Psycho666Soldier]

Refreshed? Benjamin is once again in a tag-team and Lashley went from being a World champion/World title contender to a tag champ in the distant 2nd company. I guess I don't understand what you mean by refreshed other than the cornball AEW sheep response of "They seem to be having fun"

I mean I'm not shocked the crowd pops for them because they pretend to dislike WWE but every single talent who made their name in WWE=over as fuck. But again, the fans are fucking weird. Shelton even addressed this in his interview with Chris. It's because that geek Max Caster said some shit and like good little sheep you all followed suit because it was an AEW talent speaking ill of a guy who can run circles around pretty much everyone in the company. I mean FFS, they signed Elias. He can't wrestle, can't talk, gimmick ran it's course.

I mean, that's mostly what I meant. Like they seem like they have a renewed energy in their performances. Maybe it's just the crowd reaction that makes it feel that way

I'll admit a lot of AEW fans can act weird about new singers as well as hypocritical. But I also think Max Caster is someone who gets just as much hate as praise from the core fan base these days. Seems like for the last year a lot of online AEW fans have turned on Caster

[Donald Pleasence]

It's just shocking the momentum they had is basically non-existent. I don't even think TNA had the momentum that AEW had to begin with.

[Nash Diesel]

It's just shocking the momentum they had is basically non-existent. I don't even think TNA had the momentum that AEW had to begin with.

Everyone for years thought all we needed was another billionaire and boom, another Monday Night Wars. They don't realize there were already wars between Turner and Vince, Jim Crockett and Vince, it wasn't just one day WCW started with Sting, Hogan, Flair, Luger makes a surprise debut and we're off to the races. Now we have Dave Meltzer fanning the flames because he's lost a significant amount of money since the end of WCW which he predicted would happen back in 2001.

TNA had momentum but not really at the beginning. Once they landed the Spike deal it was like oh shit, maybe we might have a decent #2. Problem is, it wasn't a wrestling fan with a billionaire family in charge. They also didn't have the kind of support AEW has from WBD. You'd rarely see Spike promote TNA but they loved plastering other shit like the UFC and 8000 ways to Die. No different than when they were TNN and used ECW to try to draw motherfuckers to watch Rollerjam.

[Mazer]

This better not turn into RollerJam disparagement.

[virms]

This better not turn into RollerJam disparagement.

Tony Kahn should definitely bring back rollerjam. Can be the run in for dynamite or collision.

[Mazer]

I would be in for that. The cross-promotion would be incredible.

[Nash Diesel]

Fuck Rollerjam. It's RollerGAMES or bust. Tony probably would do some stupid ass shit like do a "Rollergames" themed Dynamite where he'd have to create another 5 stables which would be great. The only team he'd probably have an issue recreating would be The Rockers.

[Mazer]

I would pay top dollar to see the AEW stables compete against each other in RollerJamGames. Top dollar, I say.

Realistically, some would have to combine. The Learning Tree won't have the mobility. They're going to need to hook with a team like Top Flight to get some mobility, and still add from there.

This won't be a popular opinion, but I think the Undisputed Kingdom does surprisingly well in this, provided Cole can be healthy.

[Donald Pleasence]

Would you pay AJ Francis?

[Mazer]

What are they selling me?

[Nash Diesel]

One glaring difference between AEW and every other promotion whether that's TNA, NJPW, is that whenever a talent gets released from those companies it's always "The booker failed them!" With AEW, you could write a Stephen King-length novel with all the talent blaming their fans do. I just keep reading "Black didn't want to do this, Starks thought this was wack, Miro could've done this but he didn't" Is it because we just assume in AEW you get to do whatever you want but everywhere else you have to do what you're told?

IDK. Doesn't seem like the AEW psychos are coping well anytime a wrestler leaves AEW. They don't want wrestlers to work for/with anyone but AEW. I mean look at Britt Baker. She's a tool no doubt but up until you heard she might leave she at least had the AEW psychos riding with her. Now, they're believing rumors from KONNAN. The guy is in the same boat as Bischoff, Cornette, WWE when it comes to what/who AEW fans loathe and now they believe some shit this guy with no real skin in the game is saying lol.

[Psycho666Soldier]

One glaring difference between AEW and every other promotion whether that's TNA, NJPW, is that whenever a talent gets released from those companies it's always "The booker failed them!" With AEW, you could write a Stephen King-length novel with all the talent blaming their fans do. I just keep reading "Black didn't want to do this, Starks thought this was wack, Miro could've done this but he didn't" Is it because we just assume in AEW you get to do whatever you want but everywhere else you have to do what you're told?

IDK. Doesn't seem like the AEW psychos are coping well anytime a wrestler leaves AEW. They don't want wrestlers to work for/with anyone but AEW. I mean look at Britt Baker. She's a tool no doubt but up until you heard she might leave she at least had the AEW psychos riding with her. Now, they're believing rumors from KONNAN. The guy is in the same boat as Bischoff, Cornette, WWE when it comes to what/who AEW fans loathe and now they believe some shit this guy with no real skin in the game is saying lol.

It's so annoying the way a lot of them react to that stuff. So many of them that were dick riding Starks were quick to say he wasn't shit when rumors of him not wanting to be there came about.

I think with Britt, though, the hate really started when the incident with MJF happened

[Nash Diesel]

It's so annoying the way a lot of them react to that stuff. So many of them that were dick riding Starks were quick to say he wasn't shit when rumors of him not wanting to be there came about.

I think with Britt, though, the hate really started when the incident with MJF happened

It's weird because I remember when Thunder Rosa was getting raked through the coals, oh she's not even that good she's jealous of Britt Baker yada yada. Now it's basically oh she's checked out she's trying to leave. Some of these AEW fans like to manifest negativity so they can be a victim.

My favorite is reading about how no other wrestling company is under the microscope like AEW. Really???? When was the last time the government stepped in to make sure steroids weren't being used, where is the AEW drug testing policy? Motherfuckers leave for 2 months come back with 40lbs of muscle looking JACKED. I mean even in WWE we haven't really seen anyone violate the Wellness Policy but seriously in 5+ years nobody in AEW has ever failed a drug test? That alone shows that AEW are not even remotely close to being under the microscope. But since Eric Bischoff of all people doesn't love AEW it's under the scope.

[Mazer]

The Britt heat is weird to me, because of the MJF girlfriend thing. Like this guy's gf if backstage having heat with people, and its all the actual employee's fault?

or am I reading the wrong twitter dirt sheet summations?


Anywho...
I like the thought of Black back in WWE. Trips was always a big fan. I am not sold on Ricky Starks there.

[Mazer]

It's interesting to listen to Eric B talk about AEW. At times, he will kind of mildly defend some of the things, but it's also a bit like he is getting frustrated, and can come across to me like he wants to see them push WWE in a different way.

My armchair psychologist license is fully engaged as I say this.

[Donald Pleasence]

I love Tony Khan, but he's never going to rival WWE. It looked promising at the beginning, but so many of these companies start that way and fizzle out. The honeymoon phase is over for AEW.

[Mazer]

Now they move into the honeydew phase.

[Dreyski]

So long as it doesn't go into the Beaker phase.

[Nash Diesel]

It's interesting to listen to Eric B talk about AEW. At times, he will kind of mildly defend some of the things, but it's also a bit like he is getting frustrated, and can come across to me like he wants to see them push WWE in a different way.

My armchair psychologist license is fully engaged as I say this.

He sounds like he's talking about his son and watching his son make the same mistakes he made. They very similar. Super arrogant, tons of money, no clue what the fuck they are doing. I fucking hated Eric Bischoff until I read his book. Then I finally understood where he was coming from so I only hated him a little bit.

[Donald Pleasence]

I love Tony Khan, but sometimes I wonder why he would let talent like Aleister Black, Rusev, and John Starks go.

[Nash Diesel]

The fact those are the only people he's let go is a problem.

I'm still not convinced there wasn't some kind of trade made between WWE and AEW. The timing just seems too coincidental. I guess we'll find out tonight if Cedric shows up and rejoins the Hurt Business and the Good Bros 2 sweet their way into jobbing to the Deathriders.

[Mazer]

I love Tony Khan, but sometimes I wonder why he would let talent like Aleister Black, Rusev, and John Starks go.

He's never respected John Starks since game 7 vs. Houston.

[VHS]

The fact those are the only people he's let go is a problem.

I'm still not convinced there wasn't some kind of trade made between WWE and AEW. The timing just seems too coincidental. I guess we'll find out tonight if Cedric shows up and rejoins the Hurt Business and the Good Bros 2 sweet their way into jobbing to the Deathriders.

I’m just imagining Tony Khan and HHH sitting in the floor and trading wrestler like baseball cards.

Tony: I’ll trade youuuu… Penta, Malakai and Ricky forrrr… Cedric and the Good Bros!
HHH: Works for me.

[Donald Pleasence]

I love Tony Khan, but I wish he'd tell Samoa Joe he's better off in WWE.

[lotjx]

I love Tony Khan, but I wish he'd tell Samoa Joe he's better off in WWE.

No, WWE used Joe worse than TNA which I didn't think was possible.

[Donald Pleasence]

Vince McMahon used Samoa Joe incorrectly.

[Nash Diesel]

Nobody has used Joe incorrectly. The problem is for the last 20 years that guy has not been reliable. He's constantly hurt. It's crazy to think Mick Foley went out of his way to try and get WWE to sign Punk and Samoa Joe and Joe turned it down for TNA. Just think had he gone with Punk. They might've been able to get 4-5 years out of him.

[Mazer]

NXT Joe was fucking awesome.

[Nash Diesel]

I always felt like NXT Joe should've been given a year long run. But this was the era where things started to get weird. I feel like once Robert Roode won the title, NXT started to slowly go downhill with the rapid decline being the Undisputed Era/Ciampa/Gargano era.

[Badger]

Joe/Moxley could be a fucking money match right now. Instead they have him get thrown through a wall by Jericho, sell it then in a stable squashing jobbers on Dynamite this week.

Speaking of Jericho…I know he can do comedy but yeah as if the Orange Cassidy jacket feud wasn’t bad enough, that Bandido showdown shit…wtf?

I mean there’s giving back to help the young guys then there’s that. He does it too much..also see Action Andretti getting a win over him which has gone nowhere really.

[Tempest]

I don't think anyone really benefits from working with Jericho anymore and that pains me to say, as he's always been one of my favourites. I guess Big Bill is getting something out of it, but his stables haven't really created much in the past so I expect that will fizzle.

I know it's not new but it really struck me this week how everyone travels in packs. Like everytime I looked up there's another group of two or three folk slapped together. I mean the trios division should be absolute fire in theory.

[Donald Pleasence]

Jericho should have been used to put AEW on the map, which he did, then retire. He should be the lead trainer in the back, helping the younger talent. There's no reason for him to still be wrestling. He's delusional that he thinks he still has something to contribute. You've had your time, we appreciate all of your work, but you're diluting it at this point.

[Mazer]

It's hard for me to say "This guy needs to retire". I don't know what that person's life situation is, their mental state is, or anything else. And to some extent, if a person can get paid for doing something they love....


But for Khan....Jericho in a match is not good TV anymore. He's not in great shape, and some night he's just ......straight up wrestlecrap bad. Look, I'm turning 47 soon, and trying to play soccer against guys in their 20s and early 30s in a comp soccer league. Not that something like is anywhere near being a pro wrestler, but the point is.....sometimes I'm just shit now. I could have 3 solid games, and drive in one night....and just be fucking slow on everything. Bad reaction time, moving sluggish. Drive home and think "I need to hang it up".

Jericho is getting more and more to the "some times he's going to be trash, and there's nothing he can do about it"/

[Nash Diesel]

Jericho was the most 50/50 booked wrestler in WWE history. Then for like 10 years he would dip and out and usually just lose. So when AEW decided the top 2 choices were Jericho and Hangman, it was a mistake. It should've been Kenny Omega v. Jericho with Omega winning.

I will say this about Jericho. At least he's in the midcard. It's bad enough we have all these old blonde dudes from the 90's lingering in the title picture (Edge, Christian, Jarrett) so dropping Jericho down a couple rungs, smart.

[Mazer]

Don't even get me started on Jarrett.

[Nash Diesel]

Could be worse.....I heard Eddie Kingston is trying to come back 4-5 months early. I can't wait for that World title run of Temu Kobashi chops and Great Value level strong style suplexes.

[MTR]

I can't wait for Jarret and Kingston to trade the World Title around for a bit.

[MTR]

Various news and rumors site saying Josh Alexander headed to AEW.

[Nash Diesel]

I won't front and say I know enough but what I have seen I'm not exactly sure if I should be hyped or not.

[MTR]

I was kind of hoping he would go to the WWE. He is really good. Granted he would probably get lost in the shuffle in either place after the initial hype. He was a main player for TNA and I think can definitely be a upper midcard/main eventer wherever he goes. Whether that happens or not we shall see

[Donald Pleasence]

I love Tony Khan, but I wouldn't sign Josh Alexander.

[Nash Diesel]

I want to see Alex Hammerstone in WWE/NXT. I know we saw a little of him and Oba Femi which was cool but if we're going to bring in an "Alex" that would be my choice.

Honestly I feel like AEW needs to continue trimming the fat but I know TK isn't about releasing talent and I can respect that. He's just shot himself in the foot with having so many wrestlers. Seriously, what does this dude offer? I'll have to dive more into his TNA world title run that lasted for almost a year.

[Badger]

I don't think anyone really benefits from working with Jericho anymore and that pains me to say, as he's always been one of my favourites. I guess Big Bill is getting something out of it, but his stables haven't really created much in the past so I expect that will fizzle.

I know it's not new but it really struck me this week how everyone travels in packs. Like everytime I looked up there's another group of two or three folk slapped together. I mean the trios division should be absolute fire in theory.

Jericho should have been used to put AEW on the map, which he did, then retire. He should be the lead trainer in the back, helping the younger talent. There's no reason for him to still be wrestling. He's delusional that he thinks he still has something to contribute. You've had your time, we appreciate all of your work, but you're diluting it at this point.

Nothing really to be gained in-ring wise yeah agree. Lead trainer he might be fine, however he is larger than life so an on-screen wise could also do very well as a mouthpiece/manager with occasional physical involvement.

[VHS]

I want to see Alex Hammerstone in WWE/NXT. I know we saw a little of him and Oba Femi which was cool but if we're going to bring in an "Alex" that would be my choice.

Honestly I feel like AEW needs to continue trimming the fat but I know TK isn't about releasing talent and I can respect that. He's just shot himself in the foot with having so many wrestlers. Seriously, what does this dude offer? I'll have to dive more into his TNA world title run that lasted for almost a year.

He's strong as a bull and charismatically gifted too. He was dong a Tyler Durden type persona for a while that helped strap a rocket to his back on the independent scene, a lot of it on the West Coast scene.

[Nash Diesel]

I think Jericho as a "GM" type character would be pretty entertaining. I've always been 50/50 about the guy but I do think he's very solid on the mic and just has the natural charisma to be an asset in some way.

[Mazer]

Eh, I could get behind that. Tony loses a bet with Chris, and he gets to run ROH and makes Collision their show. Book it.

[Donald Pleasence]

I love Tony Khan, but I'd love him even more if he FUed Jericho into a garbage truck like Cena did to Bischoff

[Nash Diesel]

If Tony was smart, which he's not, he would make Jericho his avatar. Everything that the IWC thinks Tony is about, make that Jericho's character. Have Jericho come out and just randomly book MJF v. Bandido because it'll be a "GREAT 5 star match for this GREAT crowd" IDK I'm just rambling.

ROH needs to die. You have Athena over there going on 2+ years as champion. Why? The downfall of Sammy Guevara should be studied. Has anyone truly cared about ROH in the last 10 years? The essence is long gone.

[Hero!]

That Thunder Rosa run in may be the most hilarious thing since the sparkler explosion deathmatch

[Mazer]

It....was not great.

[Nash Diesel]

I've had a hard time programming my brain to remember Raw is on Netflix and AEW is on MAX. Thank God I forgot again last night lol.

See, my AEW was TNA. So maybe how I sound about AEW is how people sounded about TNA. I mean, LOLTNA is now LOLAEW.

[Tempest]

I thought are they going to do some sort of weird heel turn with Rosa, is that why she is lingering? Nope, just bad.

On another note, Toni Storm's promo was awesome. The line about railing her with the biggest package she's ever seen absolutely killed me

[Donald Pleasence]

With Max i was using my brother in law's log in, but when I go to log in it's asking to renew so I guess he doesn't use it anymore, so no more AEW for me.

[Mazer]

I thought are they going to do some sort of weird heel turn with Rosa, is that why she is lingering? Nope, just bad.

I thought the same thing. I had to watch twice. At the end of the first, I was honestly convincing myself I must have missed something.....


I had not missed anything.

[Mazer]

I do like Toni's run though. I'm impressed she found a way to freshen it up. Honestly, I'm glad she's really found something that works for her. Always been a fan.

[Badger]

I do like Toni's run though. I'm impressed she found a way to freshen it up. Honestly, I'm glad she's really found something that works for her. Always been a fan.

Toni and Mariah are great and all, but the division as a whole are still lacking interesting characters to make it an interesting division. Statlander personality-wish….eh. Mone no doubt great technically but such a bland heel. Hayter is technically good but zero personality. Statlander same. Hart has the personality but not enough to work off of at the moment. What about somebody like Adabon? She’d be great if they bothered to give her a push.

The women’s division overall at the moment apart from a couple of exceptions just don’t provide great characters.

[Donald Pleasence]

AEW had a PPV recently and not a pipe in this thread about it. Is AEW that interesting these days? Does no one love Tony Khan?

[MTR]

I can't really afford the stuff most of the time. I haven't watched in a while but I do keep up

[Badger]

They are now streaming PPVs on Amazon Prime which while there’s still the cost, it is more accessible and easily streamed as Triller can be temperamental.

On the whole a really great show particularly Omega/Takeshita and Fletcher/Ospreay (though they overdid the licking each other’s blood thing).

Cope/Mox was a draaaag and they booked Christian like a dumbass wasting his cash-in. Though they tried to address it on Dynamite with Nick Wayne calling him out and they were nose to nose like they were gonna kiss lol. Though just sick of the Death Riders shit making everyone else look like idiots. They tried to portray Mox as like a revolutionary but now just a generic lucky cowardly heel. This isn’t badass Mox, shades of cowardly heel Austin. Hope Swerve wins but whole thing smacks of a holding pattern til Darby’s done his mountain climb and wins.

MVP/MJF possible alliance this week has me intrigued so will give them that.

[Psycho666Soldier]

I still watch regularly and thought the PPV was awesome except the dumb Mox/Cope finish

I just don't post in here much because generally people on the forums aren't as into the product as much so it gets kind of boring saying, "I really liked this" to constantly be countered with people who either didn't like it or don't care. Some disagreement is cool, but when it seems like you're at odds with most of the other people who bother to talk about it, I just kinda lose interest.

[Badger]

I still watch regularly and thought the PPV was awesome except the dumb Mox/Cope finish

I just don't post in here much because generally people on the forums aren't as into the product as much so it gets kind of boring saying, "I really liked this" to constantly be countered with people who either didn't like it or don't care. Some disagreement is cool, but when it seems like you're at odds with most of the other people who bother to talk about it, I just kinda lose interest.

Ditto. Also May/Storm was really good and could’ve got more time really if they shaved a few minutes off other stuff like Cope/Mox. Now that the feud has ended, not sure where they go with the women’s division from here. Mone is great in-ring but a bleh character and no-one looks like a credible challenger at the moment to beat her. Megan Bayne seems to be their new flavour of the month just now but not seen much character-wise.

Harley (gram) has been entertaining but not really a serious contender. Other than doing a Mone vs Storm match and the on again off again stuff between Statlander and Willow, the women’s division is just spread too thin I feel.

I know they have their working relationship cross-promotion with NJPW but it’s like I said in the NXT thread. Great matches but the status quo remains in that no titles are changing brands.

[Psycho666Soldier]

Storm/Bayne should be good match wise. Guess we'll see if some character will show up in the feud, but it's nice to see some untested blood in the title picture.

Also Ricochet has been one of the best things going weekly. His heel schtick is crazy over and he's shown more charisma than I think I've ever seen from him. He plays that annoying guy who's way too full of himself but also low-key really great at one thing so he won't go away or shut his mouth.

[Badger]

Storm/Bayne should be good match wise. Guess we'll see if some character will show up in the feud, but it's nice to see some untested blood in the title picture.

Also Ricochet has been one of the best things going weekly. His heel schtick is crazy over and he's shown more charisma than I think I've ever seen from him. He plays that annoying guy who's way too full of himself but also low-key really great at one thing so he won't go away or shut his mouth.

Yeah they’ve definitely done well with Ricochet. Platinum Caster has been entertaining on that annoying heel front but with less credibility but getting a bit predictable. I think the gimmick would work better if he either hand-picked jobbers or let him squeak out cheap wins. Plus where are Bowens and Gunn?

PS please push Mortos now Tony. He’s more than paid his dues by now as I love that dude. He’s done the jobber to the stars gimmick well but he needs something else like a mouthpiece. Having an MVP trying to recruit him as well would be great. Maybe even Jericho speak for him or something.

[Donald Pleasence]

What did you think of Mike Bailey?

[Badger]

What did you think of Mike Bailey?

Not watching TNA or NJPW, I had to look him up when he came out but he was decent.

Him and Orange will be a banger in the nextbut can’t see him advancing further. Think Ricochet’s taking the whole tourney tbh to face Omega which will no doubt be a banger.

Omega/Okada title vs title is likely the end game here.

[Psycho666Soldier]

Yeah they’ve definitely done well with Ricochet. Platinum Caster has been entertaining on that annoying heel front but with less credibility but getting a bit predictable. I think the gimmick would work better if he either hand-picked jobbers or let him squeak out cheap wins. Plus where are Bowens and Gunn?

PS please push Mortos now Tony. He’s more than paid his dues by now as I love that dude. He’s done the jobber to the stars gimmick well but he needs something else like a mouthpiece. Having an MVP trying to recruit him as well would be great. Maybe even Jericho speak for him or something.

I don't even know that he particularly needs a mouthpiece with the way he carries himself, though I'd be down for it. I agree though that Mortos is well overdue for a solid push. Like he doesn't need to win a title yet, but let him get some meaningful wins and challenge for more titles.

What did you think of Mike Bailey?

Looked as great as ever. It's been a minute since I've seen one of his matches, but he's definitely gonna fit into AEW well.

I agree with Badger though that Ricochet is the perfect person to win this little tournament and challenge Kenny first. Then I wouldn't hate seeing him be the one to beat Garcia for the TNT title.

[VHS]

Ricochet has become one of my current favorites in AEW right now. Before he had this timid puppy demeanor, but now there’s so much that’s been revitalized now that he’s a heel. He’s more at home than he’s ever been IMO.

Also…. SPEEDBALL finally debuted. Hell yeah.

Don’t know if we’ll ever see a feud like Toni/Mariah in AEW ever again. And as for where they go, I’d say Toni/Mercedes is the trajectory. And as for Mariah, not a clue. Nearly two years of glorious storytelling.

[Mazer]

I could get behind a heel Ricochet with the TNT title run.

[Nash Diesel]

AEW had a PPV recently and not a pipe in this thread about it. Is AEW that interesting these days? Does no one love Tony Khan?

It's because aside from the wrestling, AEW is what they call "the shits" The attendance is dwindling, ratings are dropping, but we got Ricochet doing the AH HA! and some of the worst main events of all time.

You can turn on 50 different promotions from the last 80 years and find good to great wrestling. I'm basically at a point with AEW where if my son tells me he went out of his way to watch something, I'll google it and see what's up. And that happens maybe once every 13 months with the most recent being him asking if I saw the Spanish Fly off the cage from our boy Will Ospreay. AEW has a lot of great talent doing a lot of stupid ass gimmicks, terrible feuds, shitty stables.

Take Ricochet....Here's a guy doing some shit that pre-WWE everyone would've been like "Watch they'll make Ricochet a comedy heel" and what did AEW do? It's like they're trying to prove he could've been a WWE guy from 2006 or something and it's terrible. Ricochet is a guy who like Okada, you don't fix what aint broken. And it's some of the lowest rated segments in the company. Why? Because the only people who religiously watch AEW are psychopaths.

[Nash Diesel]

Ricochet has become one of my current favorites in AEW right now. Before he had this timid puppy demeanor, but now there’s so much that’s been revitalized now that he’s a heel. He’s more at home than he’s ever been IMO.

Also…. SPEEDBALL finally debuted. Hell yeah.

Don’t know if we’ll ever see a feud like Toni/Mariah in AEW ever again. And as for where they go, I’d say Toni/Mercedes is the trajectory. And as for Mariah, not a clue. Nearly two years of glorious storytelling.

I won't lie I didn't think AEW would ever get remotely close to MJF v. CM Punk but these two are pretty damn close. I definitely have hope that even if only 100,000 people are watching AEW they will have something in the next couple years that will be in that realm. I honestly haven't given one fuck about anything in AEW outside of that feud because everything else has been so terrible.

It's tough to watch some of my absolute favorites over the years look like buffoons. It's a huge part as to why I had to stop watching TNA and WCW. I remember forcing my hand back in the day to watch what Kevin Nash was going to do that sucked back in the 2000/2001 era of WCW. Or in TNA you start falling in love with AJ Styles and oh we better do some weird ass affair angle with a cosplayer from Disney lol. You can only put up with so much and that's how I've felt about AEW for the last 2 years.

[Badger]

It's because aside from the wrestling, AEW is what they call "the shits" The attendance is dwindling, ratings are dropping, but we got Ricochet doing the AH HA! and some of the worst main events of all time.

You can turn on 50 different promotions from the last 80 years and find good to great wrestling. I'm basically at a point with AEW where if my son tells me he went out of his way to watch something, I'll google it and see what's up. And that happens maybe once every 13 months with the most recent being him asking if I saw the Spanish Fly off the cage from our boy Will Ospreay. AEW has a lot of great talent doing a lot of stupid ass gimmicks, terrible feuds, shitty stables.

Take Ricochet....Here's a guy doing some shit that pre-WWE everyone would've been like "Watch they'll make Ricochet a comedy heel" and what did AEW do? It's like they're trying to prove he could've been a WWE guy from 2006 or something and it's terrible. Ricochet is a guy who like Okada, you don't fix what aint broken. And it's some of the lowest rated segments in the company. Why? Because the only people who religiously watch AEW are psychopaths.

Okada is fine where he is, he’s likely losing that to Omega down the road. However I think Ricochet needed the turn otherwise he’d just be a bland copy paste high flyer which AEW have enough of right now. Just need to let him cook.

There’s a lot to say about AEW’s booking but Ricochet is one of the things they’re actually getting right at the moment.

He stabbed Swerve with scissors and beat him. Though Swerve won the no 1 contender’s match, they’re 1-1 and can always go back to that for the rubber match down the road.

[Nash Diesel]

Okada is fine where he is, he’s likely losing that to Omega down the road. However I think Ricochet needed the turn otherwise he’d just be a bland copy paste high flyer which AEW have enough of right now. Just need to let him cook.

There’s a lot to say about AEW’s booking but Ricochet is one of the things they’re actually getting right at the moment.

He stabbed Swerve with scissors and beat him. Though Swerve won the no 1 contender’s match, they’re 1-1 and can always go back to that for the rubber match down the road.

Okada's not fine though. How is he fine? I hate when people claim someone is fine or "at least they're happy!" Based on what? Okada, considered the GOAT Japanese of all time by many, and he's hanging out in the midcard with a throwaway title that, as you said, he's likely losing anywa to Kenny Omega-another guy who gave up on himself when he came to AEW just look at his presentation. Kenny Omega from badass to Weekend at Bernies.

Ricochet is terrible right now. If he didn't change anything, he'd be the best high flyer they have. They could get rid of more of the wannabes. Again, another talent who was incredible that didn't need to be changed. The whole time AEW sheep complained how he was being used in WWE, not once did anyone say "You know what would work? Make him Kerwin White level terrible"

[Donald Pleasence]

Wasn't it Ricochet vs. O'Spray that Vader got pissed off about and called a ballet act?

[Nash Diesel]

Wasn't it Ricochet vs. O'Spray that Vader got pissed off about and called a ballet act?

That was forever ago and Ospreay even did the job to Vader in a match after the fact.

For me, it wasn't like they changed anything about PAC when he showed up. He was actually 100x cooler after his WWE run because of the character development. Ricochet....Like I said he comes across as what people assumed would happen to guys like him if they went to WWE instead of *insert any other promotion* Same with Okada. With AEW fans you can't be critical, they will tell you weird things like "they're fine, they're happy, obviously they're ok with it" That doesn't change the fact that A-the fans are tuning out and not attending and B-it's terrible. Ricochet is worse off than he was in WWE but people think "oh he's feuding with Swerve over a robe and scissors=he's fine" Naw. He's basically showcasing every single negative about himself that every other promotion were good at hiding.

[Donald Pleasence]

I haven't heard of AEW taking much digs at WWE recently. Have they finally accepted they will never overtake WWE in anyway, and just settled on doing their own thing?

[VHS]

That was forever ago and Ospreay even did the job to Vader in a match after the fact.

For me, it wasn't like they changed anything about PAC when he showed up. He was actually 100x cooler after his WWE run because of the character development. Ricochet....Like I said he comes across as what people assumed would happen to guys like him if they went to WWE instead of *insert any other promotion* Same with Okada. With AEW fans you can't be critical, they will tell you weird things like "they're fine, they're happy, obviously they're ok with it" That doesn't change the fact that A-the fans are tuning out and not attending and B-it's terrible. Ricochet is worse off than he was in WWE but people think "oh he's feuding with Swerve over a robe and scissors=he's fine" Naw. He's basically showcasing every single negative about himself that every other promotion were good at hiding.

Disagree wholly about Ricochey being worse off now.

When Ricochet left WWE, they had nothing for him and he was going to go absolutely nowhere. His AEW debut was unremarkable because he needed something else besides Rico "fresh out of WWE" shayy. The ball was in his court and he needed to prove he was more than just a flippy do guy... and when the toilet paper started flying, that's when he entered a new chapter in his career. Thank frick he's not the "toilet paper guy" though. His promos have purpose now and he's knocking it out of the park being the biggest piece of shit outside the MJF bubble. There was a charisma underneath a thick exterior and it's awesome seeing it shine through finally. I've never done a 180 quicker on a guy.

I'm all in w/ this Ricochet.

[Nash Diesel]

Disagree wholly about Ricochey being worse off now.

When Ricochet left WWE, they had nothing for him and he was going to go absolutely nowhere. His AEW debut was unremarkable because he needed something else besides Rico "fresh out of WWE" shayy. The ball was in his court and he needed to prove he was more than just a flippy do guy... and when the toilet paper started flying, that's when he entered a new chapter in his career. Thank frick he's not the "toilet paper guy" though. His promos have purpose now and he's knocking it out of the park being the biggest piece of shit outside the MJF bubble. There was a charisma underneath a thick exterior and it's awesome seeing it shine through finally. I've never done a 180 quicker on a guy.

I'm all in w/ this Ricochet.

Yeah I'm just going to have to do the ol' "agree to disagree" here about Ric. He didn't need to prove anything. Honestly, Ric is basically Dean Malenko in the WWF. And I'm sure there were people defending that change to the death lol. Except it's not working. At all. Working would be that his segments aren't the least watched, working would be a rise in attendance, ratings, something lol.

Why fix what ain't broken? He's losing fans, and not because "HE'S A HEEL!" I love a great heel, I boo the shit out of them. This is terrible.

[VHS]

Putting the ratings and attendance on Ricochet is pretty laughable.

What he's doing right now is working. Especially compared to what he was doing before, which definitively was not working.

[Nash Diesel]

Putting the ratings and attendance on Ricochet is pretty laughable.

What he's doing right now is working. Especially compared to what he was doing before, which definitively was not working.

So for 15 years this guy just sucked, never got over, and now he's finally over in AEW?

See I think the reason why so many AEW apologists love this gimmick is because here's a guy who lives online, battling every person who says something negative about him, but he gets to bang Samantha. He's what most of you wish you were. A trampoline wrestler who for 15 years has made money, traveled the globe, you guys were just waiting for the cringe personality to become his tv personality.

I'm assuming you think Edge and Sting had their best run in AEW as well.

[Donald Pleasence]

I don't think anyone previously known outside of AEW has had their bust run in AEW.

[Nash Diesel]

I don't think anyone previously known outside of AEW has had their bust run in AEW.

If we stretch "previously known" you could possibly say Toni Storm and Swerve Strickland. Maybe FTR. Again I'm stretching the terminology here so we don't get a bunch of idiotic claims. I just hate hearing Tony Khan and certain fans saying things like Sting had the best run of his entire 40 year career in AEW or that Edge and Christian have been doing the best work of their career. It's hilarious how dismissive Tony and certain fans will be to make AEW seem super important. Why wasn't TNA given the respect they deserve? 20+ years we've been hearing every other month is the end, they don't create anyone, etc. Yet we could make a list of people who were made in TNA, who had a career resurgence in TNA, all the interpromotional stuff, the fact that ROH benefited tremendously from their partnership back in the day.....but Sting had his best years in AEW. Seriously? lol

[Mazer]

I think there are a decent amount of folks who have had at or near their best runs in AEW.

I am legitimately happy for Toni, who I was really rooting for in WWE. Realistically, both AEW and WWE are loaded. It's actually super hard for anyone to climb to the top of the card. It's like most NBA players switch teams hoping for a better opportunity. But they're still probably going to average close to the same amount of points, and not be an all-star.

Every once in a while, someone is going to get really lifted up. And sometimes someone will fall down. But in crowded environments, most end up regressing to the mean.

[VHS]

So for 15 years this guy just sucked, never got over, and now he's finally over in AEW?

Ricochet's been over before, but his star power has always seemed to dwindle away over time. He's always been missing something that allowed him to make it to that next level. And I don't get the notion that he's sucked for 15 years. The dude is great, no doubt about it; he's just never excelled to the heights as folks expected or hoped for.

See I think the reason why so many AEW apologists love this gimmick is because here's a guy who lives online, battling every person who says something negative about him, but he gets to bang Samantha. He's what most of you wish you were. A trampoline wrestler who for 15 years has made money, traveled the globe, you guys were just waiting for the cringe personality to become his tv personality.

I don't think who he's with has anything to do with anything here. But I'm not surprised where you're head's at.

I'm assuming you think Edge and Sting had their best run in AEW as well.

No need to assume, Edge and Sting both peaked years ago. Sting's run in AEW was good and it ended on great terms, but there's no topping his run in WCW against the NWO. That's untoppable. As for Cope, he had a chariot of fire going into AEW and his debut was phenomenal. But best run? Far from it.

[Donald Pleasence]

Cope will mope on a slope of hope with the Pope

[VHS]

Cope will mope on a slope of hope with the Pope

[Badger]

Get Edge, Elijah Burke and RVD as a trios team. Cope, Pope and Dope.

[VHS]

Get Edge, Elijah Burke and RVD as a trios team. Cope, Pope and Dope.

BOOK IT.