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Thread: All Elite Wrestling

  1. #15301
    an affront to god mth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nash Diesel View Post
    So you call my take dumb and then proceed to have arguably the worst take I keep hearing from certain fans about Sting in AEW. Has it been entertaining to see someone of his age do some of the stupid shit he's doing? Of course. I laugh the hardest when they dress up as old men on Jackass and get fucked up. But to think in any way shape or form AEW Sting is better than any other incarnation is comical. I would even put his WWE run over this because in AEW he doesn't really have any purpose. Where are the storylines? And the storylines he has been part of were terrible.

    Am I one of the only people who didn't care about Sting v. Taker? And I really have no idea where the desire to see them fight comes from. Especially when Sting finally decided to come over. Trust me, not disagreeing with how stupid that Triple H match was including the nWo of all people coming down to help Sting.
    Didn't Taker turn down the match with Sting because he though he was too old and crusty to perform at a level that would meet expectations? And I think that's why a fair amount of fans thought it was too late to run it as it'd probably just be embarrassing (see: Taker/Goldberg).

    Also to "BotchaSethamania ". I forgot about when everyone thought Seth was unsafe. Ignore the fact that Sting took full responsibility for it, Finn said his buckle bomb injury was just the nature of the business, they actually temporarily banned the move because Nia did it to Kairi, and he's done the move a hundred times since then with no problems.

  2. #15302
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mth View Post
    Didn't Taker turn down the match with Sting because he though he was too old and crusty to perform at a level that would meet expectations? And I think that's why a fair amount of fans thought it was too late to run it as it'd probably just be embarrassing (see: Taker/Goldberg).

    Also to "BotchaSethamania ". I forgot about when everyone thought Seth was unsafe. Ignore the fact that Sting took full responsibility for it, Finn said his buckle bomb injury was just the nature of the business, they actually temporarily banned the move because Nia did it to Kairi, and he's done the move a hundred times since then with no problems.
    The best time to do Sting v. Undertaker would've been like 2007-2010 when Taker somehow found a 2nd lease on life and was producing some really incredible matches with guys like Edge, Batista, HBK, and Triple H. But Sting was in TNA and he made a good point about how he went to TNA instead of WWE, turning down contracts left and right because he couldn't trust WWE with how he would be handled. I 100% get it. When you see every fucking WCW guy who was there during the MNW get buried why go to WWE when you can be the top guy in TNA? I'll be honest, if Taker v. Sting happened at Mania 31 I think it would've been a decent match but I think the ship had sailed in the eyes of Taker. And they weren't doing really any cinematic type stuff during that time either.

    Seth did have a couple moments where he fucked someone up or himself but as you said, no problems since. You had Bret Hart on his high horse "I never hurt anyone" Good for you dude lol.

    Ultimately Sting retired at the HOF. Whatever he's done in AEW is like someone telling me Terry Funk's peak was his last run in WCW just because he could still do stupid hardcore shit. That's all they can do at that age is take Jackass bumps because having an actual match in your 60's is a joke.

  3. #15303
    World Champion lotjx's Avatar
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    italy
    Quote Originally Posted by mth View Post
    Didn't Taker turn down the match with Sting because he though he was too old and crusty to perform at a level that would meet expectations? And I think that's why a fair amount of fans thought it was too late to run it as it'd probably just be embarrassing (see: Taker/Goldberg).

    Also to "BotchaSethamania ". I forgot about when everyone thought Seth was unsafe. Ignore the fact that Sting took full responsibility for it, Finn said his buckle bomb injury was just the nature of the business, they actually temporarily banned the move because Nia did it to Kairi, and he's done the move a hundred times since then with no problems.
    BotchaSethamania also busted Cena's nose during his run as the company's best wrestler that no one liked except HHH. He got better, but he was on Nia Jax level during that time.

  4. #15304
    you either die a hero... Morrison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lotjx View Post
    BotchaSethamania also busted Cena's nose during his run as the company's best wrestler that no one liked except HHH. He got better, but he was on Nia Jax level during that time.
    you have so many out of whack opinions.

  5. #15305
    World Champion lotjx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morrison View Post
    you have so many out of whack opinions.
    Its an opinion, this is what happened during that year.

  6. #15306
    The Fresh Maker Mazer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreyski View Post
    Please, only JJ if it's a double retirement.
    I'm convinced that JJ will find a way to get into feuds and appearances when he's 80. Stop fighting it dreyski. He was obviously the perfect foil for The Acclaimed. See how much he helped their momentum? Don't question it. Just... resign yourself to it.

  7. #15307
    The Fresh Maker Mazer's Avatar
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    Here's things to remember when we are comparing guys like Seth to other people, and particularly to different eras?

    Seth works a lot more competitive matches than most.


    You can't really compare the Hogan era. Top stars weekly wrestling was pretty much squashes until RAW came along. A lot of those guys put in a lot less competitive ring work, with the exception of leading up to PPVs. RAW was a game changer in the amount of competitive matches from the Superstars era. So Seth has a lot more opportunity.

    Also back then, cameras and tvs were not near as good, so soft offense was more forgiven.



    Seth also works more minutes and matches than average. He hurt more people than Brie in her return, and had more mess-ups. But Brie did it in very few matches. Nia doesn't work near the minutes or matches of a Seth. He has one of the highest workrates in the business. Sometimes if you put in a lot of minutes, weird shit is gonna happen.

  8. #15308
    World Champion Murphy's Avatar
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    yugoslavia
    Behind on AEW, but lol at them playing 'Judas' all throughout Jericho's run-in on Dynamite last week to drown out the negativity.

  9. #15309
    World Champion Donald's Avatar
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    usa
    Hook has less of a chance of beating Samoa Joe than Jinder Mahal had in beating Seth Rollins.

  10. #15310
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Jinder has beat Randy Orton, AJ Styles, Shinsuke Nakamura.

    Hook has beat Jungle Boy, Matt Hardy, and Ethan Page.

    And I hate them both lol.

  11. #15311
    World Champion Donald's Avatar
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    Saw who won, but was it a squash match as it should have been?

  12. #15312
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donald View Post
    Saw who won, but was it a squash match as it should have been?
    Not a squash but honestly I've seen dudes smaller than Hook go toe to toe with prime Samoa Joe in TNA's X Division so if a kid who's 23-24 can hang with Old Man Smo Joe, and the kids has legit martial arts/wrestling training....It's more believable I guess.

    The thing that bugged me though is Joe stuck Hook with a nice Muscle Buster and Hook kicked out.

    Side note---What is up with Swerve andt he eye shadow? Is that part of his look because someone pointed out it keeps getting more and more noticeable.

  13. #15313
    FBI Warning VHS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lotjx View Post
    BotchaSethamania also busted Cena's nose during his run as the company's best wrestler that no one liked except HHH. He got better, but he was on Nia Jax level during that time.
    I don't recall everybody going "Who is Seth injuring this week?"

  14. #15314
    World Champion lotjx's Avatar
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    italy
    Quote Originally Posted by VHS View Post
    I don't recall everybody going "Who is Seth injuring this week?"
    You would be surprised especially after the Sting match.

  15. #15315
    To The Face
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    I like surprises. Tell me more about this, I'm generally out of the loop with a lot of this shit. Sources like people who cover wrestling for a living or stuff that people like me rant about on the Twitter?

  16. #15316
    FBI Warning VHS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lotjx View Post
    You would be surprised especially after the Sting match.
    Bro, I was in the RAW threads when that happened and nobody was like oh typical Seth Rollins injuring yet another person. You're a bit detached here.

  17. #15317
    Football manager? Peter Griffin's Avatar
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    uk
    Man's a mental case.

  18. #15318
    OBJECTION Psycho666Soldier's Avatar
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    Finally saw Dynamite yesterday. Good show all around. Cage/Dustin was a really good start. Private Party/Top Flight started a little iffy, but they got it together by the end.

    Joe/HOOK was booked pretty perfectly imo. HOOK finally getting a match where he's not on top, having to fight from underneath and getting bulldozed by Joe. The most dominant Joe has looked in a minute. And I feel it helped add some more character to HOOK, finally some struggle to deal with. The hope spots he got were solid, and honestly I don't care that he kicked out of the muscle buster, especially since Joe waited a few seconds before making the cover. His own mistake, and it was a good way of showing the grit and endurance HOOK had without taking away from Joe's beat down at all.

  19. #15319
    The Fresh Maker Mazer's Avatar
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    I actually don't hate that either. I'm as surprised as anyone.

  20. #15320
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psycho666Soldier View Post
    Finally saw Dynamite yesterday. Good show all around. Cage/Dustin was a really good start. Private Party/Top Flight started a little iffy, but they got it together by the end.

    Joe/HOOK was booked pretty perfectly imo. HOOK finally getting a match where he's not on top, having to fight from underneath and getting bulldozed by Joe. The most dominant Joe has looked in a minute. And I feel it helped add some more character to HOOK, finally some struggle to deal with. The hope spots he got were solid, and honestly I don't care that he kicked out of the muscle buster, especially since Joe waited a few seconds before making the cover. His own mistake, and it was a good way of showing the grit and endurance HOOK had without taking away from Joe's beat down at all.
    You wouldn't care if Hook took a shotgun blast to the head and still kicked out at 2. The fact he beat Hook's ass 90% of the match, crushed him with his finisher, and dude still kicked out is that same video game nonsense wrestling fans love.

  21. #15321
    The Fresh Maker Mazer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nash Diesel View Post
    You wouldn't care if Hook took a shotgun blast to the head and still kicked out at 2. The fact he beat Hook's ass 90% of the match, crushed him with his finisher, and dude still kicked out is that same video game nonsense wrestling fans love.
    In fairness, HOOOOKKKK has a big head, so I could see him walking some of that blast off

  22. #15322
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mazer View Post
    In fairness, HOOOOKKKK has a big head, so I could see him walking some of that blast off
    Maybe that's why his hair looks the way it does

  23. #15323
    OBJECTION Psycho666Soldier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nash Diesel View Post
    You wouldn't care if Hook took a shotgun blast to the head and still kicked out at 2. The fact he beat Hook's ass 90% of the match, crushed him with his finisher, and dude still kicked out is that same video game nonsense wrestling fans love.
    Bruh, it's wrestling. Wrestlers kick out of big moves for drama all the time. It took absolutely nothing away from Joe, so there was no harm in it.

  24. #15324
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psycho666Soldier View Post
    Bruh, it's wrestling. Wrestlers kick out of big moves for drama all the time. It took absolutely nothing away from Joe, so there was no harm in it.
    It took away from the match imo. You have Joe beating the life out of this kid and he magically kicks out of Joe's finisher that has broken people's necks.

    Yeah, it's wrestling, where the Yeti showed up and raped Hulkamania. But since it's fake nobody was actually raped so carry on brother lol.

  25. #15325
    OBJECTION Psycho666Soldier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nash Diesel View Post
    It took away from the match imo. You have Joe beating the life out of this kid and he magically kicks out of Joe's finisher that has broken people's necks.

    Yeah, it's wrestling, where the Yeti showed up and raped Hulkamania. But since it's fake nobody was actually raped so carry on brother lol.
    Would you have not cared if it was just him passing out in the choke instead of having the kickout too?

    If it took away your personal enjoyment, fair enough. I know there are some others online that didn't like it. Personally, I don't think it took anything away nor do I think it ruined credibility. It wouldn't have been much different if it was Darby for example, who's whole thing is he doesn't give up. So if they're trying to portray that Hook has no quit, kicking out at 1 after Joe was lazy about covering him quick just doesn't seem like that big a deal to me

  26. #15326
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psycho666Soldier View Post
    Would you have not cared if it was just him passing out in the choke instead of having the kickout too?

    If it took away your personal enjoyment, fair enough. I know there are some others online that didn't like it. Personally, I don't think it took anything away nor do I think it ruined credibility. It wouldn't have been much different if it was Darby for example, who's whole thing is he doesn't give up. So if they're trying to portray that Hook has no quit, kicking out at 1 after Joe was lazy about covering him quick just doesn't seem like that big a deal to me
    I would have preferred not seeing Hook kick out of the Muscle Buster.

    Who said it was a big deal? I get that a lot of you AEW kids think anything remotely negative or against what is put on their shows you gas it up like people are coming for Tony's head. No. I just thought it was stupid. It doesn't take away Joe's credibility, I even mentioned that I've seen guys smaller than Hook do better against a prime Joe in TNA and Hook's legit background makes it somewhat believable. But kicking out of a Muscle Buster is just that typical bullshit that IDGAF who it is, it's dumb.

  27. #15327
    World Champion Donald's Avatar
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    I'm sure Danhausen gave him some magic spell or something to help him kick out.

  28. #15328
    OBJECTION Psycho666Soldier's Avatar
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    It was a big deal in your enjoyment of the match from the way you word it and try to act like my opinion is any less relevant than yours just because you think I'm an AEW superfan that never has criticism. Which isn't true. You argued against my opinion about the match, I argued back on why I thought it doesn't take away from the match, but conceded that it's your personal preference.

    But for some reason you can never just argue the point. You always have to bring in personal insult and paint every positive comment about AEW as if it's impossible for someone to just enjoy the product more than you. Or ignore the fact that I've always had a more positive attitude towards wrestling than most. It's not just AEW. I used to always be a "wait and see" fan whenever WWE did something dumb because I'm an optimistic dude that tends to see the positive in most things I enjoy.

  29. #15329
    The Fresh Maker Mazer's Avatar
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    I actually read a result online first, and thought "That's fucking stupid". But I saw it, and I think Joe played it well.

    So my anger calmed.

    Don't worry, I'm sure Eddie will do patty cake chops or do a podcast soon, and I'll be driving angry again soon.

  30. #15330
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Saying something "bugged me" in the modern era has turned into "big deal"

  31. #15331
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mazer View Post
    I actually read a result online first, and thought "That's fucking stupid". But I saw it, and I think Joe played it well.

    So my anger calmed.

    Don't worry, I'm sure Eddie will do patty cake chops or do a podcast soon, and I'll be driving angry again soon.
    I mean it was fucking stupid when you look at the match as a whole but then you take a step back, realize the company you're watching, and it's par for the course. I praised Hook but some people just saw that one little gripe I had with the match and needed to speak on it.

  32. #15332
    OBJECTION Psycho666Soldier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nash Diesel View Post
    Saying something "bugged me" in the modern era has turned into "big deal"
    I think you're really blowing what I meant by "big deal" out of proportion

  33. #15333
    FBI Warning VHS's Avatar
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    I can see why folks would be up in arms about it. Personally, I would have saved Hook kicking out at 1 for a more momentous occasion. We can just tally this as another missed opportunity on AEW's part. It's not the end of the world though. That was in December.

  34. #15334
    ~POWER~ Tempest's Avatar
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    If they're going somewhere with Hook, I don't see an issue with anything I saw. To me the match came off as Joe is still a killer, but Hook won't die. I don't think Hook is particularly ready to step up, but if that's the goal here then I thought they did a great job of making him look strong in the face of a massacre.

    I didn't get the hate for the match being booked in the first place either, even if Khan went a bit insane about it. It made me think of the times when you had matches like HHH/Taka, where there was no doubt one of them was on a much lower level but it made for good TV drama when the little guy got his licks in.

  35. #15335
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    There really wasn't any hate toward the match being booked it was what came next from Tony lol. Tony wanted to make it about cagematch and wins/losses, all butthurt over a tweet from the USA Network's twitter. Everyone saw the match for what it was just a random title defense that had no build, no actual history, which is totally fine it's par for the course in AEW. They try to say "Oh Taz managed Joe in TNA" well that's also another great thing about AEW-zero originality they just pull from other companies and build off their history creating a new timeline. The last thing I wanted was to see an actual feud with Joe and Hook so this was fine.

  36. #15336
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Question--Will Ospreay signed with AEW but why hasn't he wrestled a match for them in almost 4 months? I assume he's finishing up dates that he already had i.e. New Japan, TNA.

    I'll admit I haven't been watching AEW consistently so maybe he's been on tv in some capacity but I don't remember.

  37. #15337
    ~POWER~ Tempest's Avatar
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    I didn't mean on here in terms of booking the match, it's what I'd seen elsewhere.

    Ospreay said it'd be a while whilst he finishes up with his other commitments. I'd have thought he's due to be done soon. If I'm honest I switched my brain off as soon as it was announced as a signing but not just yet.

  38. #15338
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tempest View Post
    I didn't mean on here in terms of booking the match, it's what I'd seen elsewhere.

    Ospreay said it'd be a while whilst he finishes up with his other commitments. I'd have thought he's due to be done soon. If I'm honest I switched my brain off as soon as it was announced as a signing but not just yet.
    I'm not talking about here either I'm talking about Twitter. It seemed like nobody even knew Joe v. Hook was happening until Tony responded to the USA Network like a fuckin child.

    Yeah the only reason Will popped into my head is because I was listening to Rene Dupree's show and they were talking about Okada and how AEW had just signed Will Ospreay. I was like oh shit that's right, William did sign with AEW. He's a guy I feel like they're going to royally fuck up but like he said, he signed with AEW so he doesn't have to work that much. Taking that 2 Sweet Nash/Hall approach $$$$$$$$$$

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nash Diesel View Post
    Question--Will Ospreay signed with AEW but why hasn't he wrestled a match for them in almost 4 months? I assume he's finishing up dates that he already had i.e. New Japan, TNA.

    I'll admit I haven't been watching AEW consistently so maybe he's been on tv in some capacity but I don't remember.
    He was finishing his dates in New Japan. When he came out after he was announced to be the big signing he said it would be a few months while he finished up. I think he has like one more show to do

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nash Diesel View Post
    I'm not talking about here either I'm talking about Twitter. It seemed like nobody even knew Joe v. Hook was happening until Tony responded to the USA Network like a fuckin child.

    Yeah the only reason Will popped into my head is because I was listening to Rene Dupree's show and they were talking about Okada and how AEW had just signed Will Ospreay. I was like oh shit that's right, William did sign with AEW. He's a guy I feel like they're going to royally fuck up but like he said, he signed with AEW so he doesn't have to work that much. Taking that 2 Sweet Nash/Hall approach $$$$$$$$$$
    100% they will fuck it up. They've got the guy who could be a massive star in any company and he will do fuck all. Half the time he's worked there he's been treated like the random outsider from Japan to fill Rampage

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tempest View Post
    100% they will fuck it up. They've got the guy who could be a massive star in any company and he will do fuck all. Half the time he's worked there he's been treated like the random outsider from Japan to fill Rampage
    lol wat

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    Quote Originally Posted by MTR View Post
    He was finishing his dates in New Japan. When he came out after he was announced to be the big signing he said it would be a few months while he finished up. I think he has like one more show to do
    he said he was finishing up dates and would be in for the road to revolution. would not be surprised to see him with a match on the card.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MTR View Post
    He was finishing his dates in New Japan. When he came out after he was announced to be the big signing he said it would be a few months while he finished up. I think he has like one more show to do
    I also imagine moving to a different country and establishing a new home is an ordeal that takes significant time to prep for.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BGMaverick View Post
    I also imagine moving to a different country and establishing a new home is an ordeal that takes significant time to prep for.
    He's not moving he literally said the reason he signed with AEW is so he didn't have to move and could work less dates.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tempest View Post
    100% they will fuck it up. They've got the guy who could be a massive star in any company and he will do fuck all. Half the time he's worked there he's been treated like the random outsider from Japan to fill Rampage
    He's on the path that Jay White is on. ROH 6-man tag champs with his 2 dorky friends.

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    Yeah, AEW does have a track record for squandering big names. Eh... we'll see.

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    It's just matchmaking and there's nothing wrong with that but too many fans try to pretend that's not all it is. We're not invested in these people emotionally. I don't feel anything when Samoa Joe wins or loses it's just another match. That's why feuds with MJF and Samoa Joe are "I was an extra in WWE 5 years ago and you pushed me" and don't really appeal to anyone emotionally. Then you think of CM Punk in AEW, and how everything he did feud wise felt real, felt like there was a connection to the audience beyond doing moves. That's why his run there sucked at first because 9 years on the shelf who the fuck wants to see Punk climb the ranks? Boring. Just like Edge. Boring. That Christian stuff fizzled out faster than I expected but it was better than Open Challenge Adam.

    Going back to Will....If they really want to back up the hype, he should challenge Joe at Revolution. Not sure how they get there but it's AEW maybe there was some Joe/Ospreay interaction on the indy circuit 10 years ago they could pull from. Maybe Joe was trained in part by Big Van Vader and Will wants to get that W back lol.

  48. #15348
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    Meltzer was talking about AEW gates recently, and....it's not good. Drawing less than 2k in some areas. Apparently, there are big drop-offs if AEW makes a repeated visit. Getting less than 2k in St. Louis (good wrestling community) was cited as a particularly problematic example.

    That said, they've got some good PPV numbers and ratings are still solid for the current era (you really can't compare 2024 ratings to 90s/00s ratings....for any type of show). You also don't see the consistent growth that you did previously.


    But it feels like while the hardcore fans, like those who still come to forums , will continue to pay attention to and support the product, there is a lack of excitement around AEW.


    Some blamed the last year of MJF for this. I'm less certain.


    What do you think AEW needs to do increase buzz and excitement?

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    When I last checked there were a lot of tickets let for that show on Saturday that I ended up skipping. AEW doesn't draw well here in a smaller arena than what the WWE runs and this is a wrestling city. I am a fan and I typically go but there is always lots of seats available and I know St. Louis fans want TK to bring a PPV here to make up for taking one away from us but we can't sell out an AEW tv show.

    I am not sure what AEW needs to do. The hardcore fans are still watching but they are not bringing in new casual fans it seems.

  50. #15350
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    Maybe remove live show touring, just have Dynamite and PPVs.

  51. #15351
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    So go back to just Dynamite and Rampage? Even then they had trouble with gates in some markets including St. Louis. The Dynamite that I went to last year was way down in attendance from the previous Dynamite I had gone to. The hype seems to be gone and while ratings and buy rates are doing fine yeah those gates seem to be hurting outside of bigger markets. Like Meltzer said. That show we just had on a Saturday night in a city that supports wrestling should have had a good gate especially in the arena that they ran.

    If they cut their Saturday show then they have to tape ROH at Dynamite which makes a long night. I was at a Dynamite before they were doing Collession and taping ROH at that show and they taped ROH matches before the show then Rampage and then a lot of ROH matches after that and that makes for a long night unless they go back to renting that space down at Universal and doing a ton of taping over a weekend once a month or so.

  52. #15352
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    I guess opening with HoOk is one strategy.....

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    Saw something today where Adam Copeland said he wanted to wrestle Suzuki and TK was like let me what I can do and next thing you know he is announcing the match on social media. We just get this random matches that should have had at least some kind of build because well sounds like a good idea and this is when I can book said person so lets go!

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    Yeah Edge was acting like this was some big get and I'm like, how many former WWE guys does Minoru have to come over and job to? It's like they think there's some new found credibility for having a chop fest with Minoru.

    As as AEW goes....People say WWE was this monopoly like it was intentional. If anything thank God they bought WCW because who knows what would've happened to that tape library. AEW just has to accept their place as the company that will always be #2 while WWE is around but you can get a nice payday. TNA was #2 for awhile. It's a good place to be and maybe something something will happen where they'll blow up even more but I don't see it happening anytime soon. They're a young company but I've never been this disinterested in the company as I have been the last 7-8 months-present day. MJF's weird babyface turn and losing CM Punk were 2 major factors. You can only have intriguing matches every week for so long.

  55. #15355
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    The approach right now just seems like it's too GenX fan service. And look if I had billions, and started my own promotion, I might want to do some of the same things. Because it's my (or my dad's) money.

    But you look at last night for example. The champ is Samoa Joe. The main event is Edge vs. Suzuki. Christian is also in the background. And you have the continuation of Swerve vs. Hangman.

    The next biggest thing is probably Darby and Sting.


    And the next tier is Bang Bang Gang vs. Cage and the Cageites and the Undisputed Kingdom. And likely Toni Storm as well.



    I don't think there was a single match where you were less than 90% confident who was gonna win.




    Christian is doing a good job. He was always my favorite out of E&C, and I enjoy him. But I do think you're never going to feel new or exciting here. 3 of what I'd say are the 4 elements of the show revolve around older wrestlers who are likely never going to have AEW as their apex of their career. Edge, Samoa Joe, Christian, Sting. I like all of them. I can personally enjoy all. But are you doing more than nostalgia for live events? Particularly if you are trying to build loyalty in market with repeated shows. None of these guys are near the Daniel Bryan or CM Punk returns level. And honestly, that time period might never happen again. You are rarely going to get two all-time stars, one who disappeared in his prime come in at the same time. You're never going to replicate that, and it can't be the business model

    Meanwhile, you have legitimate breakout potential for a guy like Swerve. Hangman could be the classic "Second championship is better than the first guy". Toni Storm is definitely doing better with her second reign. But do they honestly feel like the most important aspects of the show?

    Daniel Bryan is still amazing on all aspects. He's wrestling on Collision this week. Mox cut a promo (which I enjoyed). I'd argue that AEW brand dilution has reached a boiling point. The shows existing in the same but different worlds means the average fan has zero idea who will be on which show from week to week. Which hurts consistency and expectation.

    AEW needs to refine their show brands, and possibly look at a roster split. Shit, maybe brand Collision as AEW:ROH. They don't have to dump their older players. But they can't have the same ratio of them in the prime spots.

  56. #15356
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    I hate to use the WCW comparison but they're checking all the boxes. Bloated roster where probably 80% of the fighters are overpaid and work a very very light schedule. The only difference, well one of the major differences is that WCW had to try to grow. They were not owned by a family like WWE or AEW, they had to produce especially during a time where nobody but Ted Turner had wanted wrasslin on their network. That's why when he lost control it was every excuse in the book to get them off air except for the fact they had the highest ratings for anything on the network other than playoff NBA games.

    If AEW has accepted their role in the industry they should press on. Tony is a super fan, he gauges what is good/bad on cagematch ffs. Everything is great, everyone who dislikes the product or even one match is a WWE bot or saying something negative in "bad faith" lol. The fact AEW talent and executives take every shred of criticism as the 2nd coming of Adolf Hitler is why they'll never truly grow beyond where they are.

  57. #15357
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    I think AEW could benefit from having a training centaur.

  58. #15358
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donald View Post
    I think AEW could benefit from having a training centaur.
    Agreed. Chiron did wonders for the Greeks.
    Last edited by Mazer; February 1st, 2024 at 5:41 PM.

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    So apparently last night's show only sold about 1800 tickets.......They were trying to sell 8k. I'm kind of shocked because you had Jon Moxley v. Jeff Hardy, first time ever and it didn't sell out? This is like when TNA would do a house show and only 800 people would show up and the main event was Kurt Angle defending against Samoa Joe.

  60. #15360
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nash Diesel View Post
    So apparently last night's show only sold about 1800 tickets.......They were trying to sell 8k. I'm kind of shocked because you had Jon Moxley v. Jeff Hardy, first time ever and it didn't sell out? This is like when TNA would do a house show and only 800 people would show up and the main event was Kurt Angle defending against Samoa Joe.
    This will sound harsh, but I am honestly not sure how many people are moved at all by Jeff anymore. Some sure, but almost everyone has had the chance to see him at this point, and I don't know that there's anything with him and Mox that puts this up. I guess you could argue that they'll get wild? But Mox will get wild on a random Collision, so ....other than the hardcore, who are probably already buying tickets, does this move the needle.


    But 1800....oof.

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    Maybe that's what it comes down to. They haven't treated Jeff as a threat whatsoever even in tags. I think he still has the super loyal fanbase though. I just believe dude has been booked a certain way by both WWE and AEW over the years that might not be as big of a draw like it would've been say 6-7 years ago when Hardy returned to WWE. Ambrose v. Jeff Hardy would've been a much bigger deal.

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    Someone needs to tell Hook his hair looks like 'Knowing Me Knowing You' Alan Partridge

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    What do we think Tony Khan's big announcement will be? Sasha Banks?

  64. #15364
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    He will announce that all future announcements with come with a special surprise

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    I hope he announces he's been Dixie Carter all along, and pulls off his mask.

  66. #15366
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    Probably just another tournament to crown a new champion of the oceans

  67. #15367
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    Oooh. I like that.

    A tournament for the Sea
    A tournament for the Air.
    A tournament for the Underworld.

    And the the 3 winners compete in an open table tournament for the Title of Olympus.

  68. #15368
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    It's a pre-sale for Double or Nothing 2026

  69. #15369
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    Maybe it will be Tony Khan announcing he's done with wrestling and is tapping out. Give the reigns to Schiavone or something I dunno.

  70. #15370
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tempest View Post
    Someone needs to tell Hook his hair looks like 'Knowing Me Knowing You' Alan Partridge
    When I first read this I was like “Huh, KMKYWAP Partridge doesn’t have bushy hair” but then they showed a close up of his face on Collision and now I can’t unsee Partridge now lol.

    I now want Hook to engage in a feud with the Don Callis family just so he can shout “DON!”over and over trying to find him. Would’ve said DAN Garcia but they’re both faces.
    Last edited by Badger; February 5th, 2024 at 7:28 PM.

  71. #15371
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    Here’s a question, what’s the update/latest on Jack Perry? I know he was indefinitely suspended for the Punk fiasco but honestly thought that would have been over by this point.

    I looked into it and apparently was at an NJPW show a few weeks ago wearing a mask and tearing up his AEW contract lol.
    Last edited by Badger; February 5th, 2024 at 7:40 PM.

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    Yeah not sure exactly what is going on with Jack but he did show up at that New Japan show but I don't think he has done anything since.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MTR View Post
    Yeah not sure exactly what is going on with Jack but he did show up at that New Japan show but I don't think he has done anything since.
    Just seen he’s got another NJPW appearance on April 12th in CHICAGO of all places. No opponent announced yet but would love to see the reaction he gets from the Punk fanboys.

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    The problem for Jungle Boy will be when he comes back to AEW here in a few weeks and nobody gives a shit because Punk is in WWE now. AEW tribalists outnumber WWE tribalists 100 to 1 so those AEW fans who were pissed about Punk being released stopped caring when dude signed to WWE.

    The one thing I've learned after 4+ years of sharing AEW with others is that others do not want anyone working for a company that doesn't affiliate in some way with AEW. There's a lot of projecting going on where AEW will try to pretend there was this huge monopoly going on but in reality that's what Tony is doing. He's Vince McMahon'ing all these companies where he pretends to work with them only to sign their top talent to insane contracts.

  75. #15375
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nash Diesel View Post
    The problem for Jungle Boy will be when he comes back to AEW here in a few weeks and nobody gives a shit because Punk is in WWE now. AEW tribalists outnumber WWE tribalists 100 to 1 so those AEW fans who were pissed about Punk being released stopped caring when dude signed to WWE.

    The one thing I've learned after 4+ years of sharing AEW with others is that others do not want anyone working for a company that doesn't affiliate in some way with AEW. There's a lot of projecting going on where AEW will try to pretend there was this huge monopoly going on but in reality that's what Tony is doing. He's Vince McMahon'ing all these companies where he pretends to work with them only to sign their top talent to insane contracts.
    Reminds me of when AEW first started. Cody/Khan: “We’re the ALTERNATIVE to WWE!!! Ta hell with this throne! *smaaaash*



    Cody now best buds with HHH challenging for the top title and Khan well….talks more about WWE than they do, signs loads of ex-WWE talents and mimics/references their storylines lol.

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    Yeah TK works with New Japan and AAA and CMLL but when the chance comes he signs talent from those companies. And he straight up bought ROH. Yeah he is basically doing things like Vince did back in the day.

  77. #15377
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badger View Post
    Just seen heís got another NJPW appearance on April 12th in CHICAGO of all places. No opponent announced yet but would love to see the reaction he gets from the Punk fanboys.
    Yeah looks like they just announced that today as I see him trending on twitter

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    I'm calling it. Sting/Darby win the tag titles from Enzo/Big Cass 2.0 and then drop them to the Young Borks at Revolution. Sting hasn't taken an L yet, he sure as shit isn't taken one in some random tag title match.

    I'm also hearing the official word is that Mercedes Mone will debut March 13th. Finally. After about 2 years of AEW reporters like Dave Meltzer and certain fans telling me every fucking week, every "big announcement" is going to be her signing with AEW. I think tonight we're going to hear that Okada has officially signed with AEW and will have his first match against the Butcher in 2 weeks at Bash at the Battle of the Halloween Havoccade.

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    Yeah I can't imagine Sting losing tonight when he hasn't taken an L yet.

    I saw the "news" that he may announced Mercedes and she will debut on March 13th. Wait and see on that.

    I am still hoping it is for some kind of tournament that creates 5 new titles and involves people we never see on tv anymore to just give them something to do.

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    If Tony signs Mercedes, and doesn't immediately build the entire division around her, it's foolishness.

    She's one of the few signees that I think absolutely raises the bar.



    So, obviously I expect her to win one feud with Ruby Soho, and then go valet for HOOK

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    Ruby will totally job to her because that is what Ruby does it seems. Job to everyone that TK wants to push.

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    My only negative about Mercedes is that she's injury prone so do you take a chance and build anything significant for the long term with her? I'm reading some fans wanting her and Jamie Hayter to headline Wembley. That's an odd one but that ppv last year was super odd with MJF and Adam Cole winning the ROH titles on the pre-show so what do I know I wasn't voted booker of the year by the WON readers.

    If I'm AEW I would try my hardest not to automatically put her in the mix with former WWE talent especially Saraya. Not because of the mule kick to the spine but I want to see something that doesn't stem from the WWE universe. If we're going to put her in with a former WWE talent then let it be Toni "I talk about my poop so I'm over" Storm but other than that I would aim for someone like Julia Hart. The matches will be decent but it sets up Mercedes winning a title at the same time elevating someone new.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MTR View Post
    Ruby will totally job to her because that is what Ruby does it seems. Job to everyone that TK wants to push.
    Similar with WWE really. Always a bridesmaid never a bride and stuck in a lame romance angle.

    It’s like she shit in both corporation’s cornflakes. Why is she not a champion?

    Toni Storm gimmick mildly amuses me but at the same time doesn’t do much to dissuade the fact that AEW cannot book women well.

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    Because as MJF would say, she's mid. She has a different look and that's about it. She doesn't wow me in the ring and I've watched her long before she came to WWE.

    Toni Storm is impressive but her gimmick went from interesting to horrible once she started leaning in to talking about taking shits every week. Kudos to the people involved in creating the gimmick but IMHO it's something I feel would thrive 100x more in the WWE environment. Simply because I feel like AEW is way too much about wrestling wrestling wrestling. The character driven stuff where wrasslin takes a backseat or is on equal grounds is usually pretty fucking bad unless it's masters at work i.e. MJF, CM Punk, Cody Rhodes, and even then it depends on who they're dancing with.

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    "dancing with" Somebody kill me

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    Quote Originally Posted by Badger View Post
    Similar with WWE really. Always a bridesmaid never a bride and stuck in a lame romance angle.

    It’s like she shit in both corporation’s cornflakes. Why is she not a champion?

    Toni Storm gimmick mildly amuses me but at the same time doesn’t do much to dissuade the fact that AEW cannot book women well.
    cause she stinks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Morrison View Post
    cause she stinks.
    How so?

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    clunky as shit in the ring and completely uninteresting as a character. all she has going is the alt girl look.

  89. #15389
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morrison View Post
    clunky as shit in the ring and completely uninteresting as a character. all she has going is the alt girl look.
    Hmmm.

    While she’s not good in the rings the likes of a Shida or Storm, there are certainly far worse in that division in-ring wise (eg the doctor will see you now!). Enough in the bag to be champion I think.

    The look is still a hook that will appeal to a IMO. She’s been basically a sidekick and maybe not a ton of character development but when she gets given the spotlight she does get more interesting like her quest to get a title is interesting in itself.

    Once she completely breaks free from Saraya, this could be the start of things for her and the match itself when they get to it should be hot.

    Listing all these women makes me think of Hayter. Hope she’s back soon.

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    she came into the company with fanfare, being the joker is the casino battle royale at all out 2021, the same show adam cole and bryan danielson debuted on. she was given the ball right away as a single. she just isn't particularly good at anything.

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    There are definitely far worse but Ruby isn't that good so it's kind of like, yeah she's good-for the roster she's on. But overall, meh. I'll admit I've been spoiled with women's wrestling and maybe my expectations for the women in AEW aren't realistic but when you're touting yourself as "All Elite" and everything you do is great, you better back that shit up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Morrison View Post
    she came into the company with fanfare, being the joker is the casino battle royale at all out 2021, the same show adam cole and bryan danielson debuted on. she was given the ball right away as a single. she just isn't particularly good at anything.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nash Diesel View Post
    There are definitely far worse but Ruby isn't that good so it's kind of like, yeah she's good-for the roster she's on. But overall, meh. I'll admit I've been spoiled with women's wrestling and maybe my expectations for the women in AEW aren't realistic but when you're touting yourself as "All Elite" and everything you do is great, you better back that shit up.
    Holding my hands up in that I only have vague recollections of Ruby’s debut and can’t remember how she dropped the ball. Also acknowledge she’s not the best but also wouldn’t say she sucks. Maybe you guys are seeing something that I’m not but I think she’s slowly coming into her own, Ruby/Saraya should be hot so I don’t see any harm in at least letting her have the ball one more time but that’s just me.

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    I am a Ruby fan. I don't think she sucks. Is she like top tier or anything no. But no reason she couldn't be the TBS champion or something at some point. Fans get behind her when she is on a face run. I hated how she basically got brought in to put over Britt to start and then Jade and then others.

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    They should change her name to Ruby Soso

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    How do I give myself reputation

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    Quote Originally Posted by Donald View Post
    How do I give myself reputation

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    Quote Originally Posted by Donald View Post
    How do I give myself reputation



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    Did Jim "The Anvil" Neidhart need a run with the IC title or maybe the European in the late 90's? That's kind of how I see wrestlers like Ruby SoSo @Donald-genius

    I remember thinking her and Liv should've had a run with the tag belts. I'll be honest....I thought she was a lot older than what she is. I'm thinking she's been in it 20 years she's only 33 debuted in 2010.

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    In WWE I felt like she should have gotten a tag title run with Liv. I know she got a title shot against someone at some point but WWE never really built her up as a singles.

    AEW she came in and the fans were behind her and then she jobbed to Britt. They build her up a bit and give her a good story to make a run to crown the first TBS champ and jobbed to Jade. At least at times they would build her up to just job her out to the person they really wanted to push. I liked the heel turn to go with Outsiders but then back to just fucking putting people over again. Guess that is her role.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Donald View Post
    How do I give myself reputation
    I’m not sure but I’ve given you rep for that joke!

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