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Thread: All Elite Wrestling

  1. #13401
    Former Videoland Champion Badger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morrison View Post
    probably when he lost the iwgp us title to lance archer in the texas death match. don't know if you'd consider that clean, though. it's a hardcore match, but archer won within the rule set and didn't do anything underhanded or nefarious to get the victory
    Fair play as I’d forgotten about that.

    Also makes me think Lance should’ve gotten a better push than he did considering he had Jake behind him. Otherwise he’s been cannon fodder for the big stars like Wardlow. A great talent who I hope doesn’t get lost in the shuffle.

  2. #13402
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    The Jake/Lance pairing never made any sense to me.

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    World Champion Donald's Avatar
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    It was a shock to see Jake appear on AEW, but that shock wore off fairly quickly.

  4. #13404
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donald View Post
    It was a shock to see Jake appear on AEW, but that shock wore off fairly quickly.
    I think Jake the Snake as the mouthpiece for a stable would've been better than just him and Archer. Jake gathering a group of talent that were on the cusp just missing one or two ingredients that he could provide.

  5. #13405
    Pissed Off MTR's Avatar
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    Yeah I would have rather seen Jake lead a group like you said.

    I like Archer and think he should have done more in AEW at this point. He gets built up and then just puts over someone. His biggest win is probably his IWGP US win over Moxley.

  6. #13406
    Not Elected to Read McBain's Avatar
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    I think his role as jobber to the stars is about right.

  7. #13407
    World Champion Donald's Avatar
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    Did anyone else feel it weird when Britt Baker and Paige had their confrontation, but they spent more time talking to the crowd or the camera rather than each other?

    Oof, the pressure on Paige to deliver a quality performance at Full Gear must be insane.

  8. #13408
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donald View Post
    Did anyone else feel it weird when Britt Baker and Paige had their confrontation, but they spent more time talking to the crowd or the camera rather than each other?

    Oof, the pressure on Paige to deliver a quality performance at Full Gear must be insane.
    Yeah it was super weird. It felt like they were having a debate trying to win over the at home viewers.

    If people are realistic, even the most die hard AEW apologist type fan should know by now that the bar in AEW is extremely low for quality women's matches. That's why the only ones that stand out are usually the ones where Britt does something violent and unnecessary to herself because every other match is just a botch fest that makes Tamina look like peak Kurt Angle.

    Plus if you're a fan like I am where I'm going to be more concerned with Paige's health, you probably won't enjoy this match regardless how good/bad it is. I mean, that 187 DDT she gave Britt looked pretty weak and again, she hasn't wrestled in 4-5 years. What kind of training has she even been able to do since she was just cleared less than a month ago?

  9. #13409
    World Champion Donald's Avatar
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    Gotta wonder why the WWE doctors never cleared her, but as soon as she's somewhere else she gets cleared immediately.

    I also don't think a doctor's gonna clear her unless she's 100% ready. Imagine the backlash against him or her if Paige does end up severely injured.

  10. #13410
    FBI Warning VHS's Avatar
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    They've really done a terrible job bringing Paige in. Her showing up and just saying it's her house, it's her house, it's her house... and then Britt comes off as the sensible one.

    Shoot, I need to stop referring to her as Paige. Saraya.

    SARAYA.

  11. #13411
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donald View Post
    Gotta wonder why the WWE doctors never cleared her, but as soon as she's somewhere else she gets cleared immediately.

    I also don't think a doctor's gonna clear her unless she's 100% ready. Imagine the backlash against him or her if Paige does end up severely injured.
    Part of me wants to believe that Tony Khan and AEW are starting to take things a little more seriously. For example, stopping the Moxley/Page match when several times just this year alone we've seen people get knocked out cold. Did they stop the match? Nope. Just dragged these boys off to the corner and carried out with their act. But who am I to judge it's not like Over the Edge didn't go on........

    The WWE were probably thinking of her health, the liability if she were to get seriously hurt again. I don't know how much worse her situation was than Edge, Bryan, or whoever else we can add to the list that came back in various forms. She's also someone who was broke in the old school way, she was traveling in her teens solo going to wrestling shows. For the real ones, even if it's 50/50 they'll take it.

  12. #13412
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Fantasy booking I would've had her debut as Toni Storm's backup at the Full Gear ppv. AEW likes to do those big special Dynamites, have SARAYA v. Britt Baker headline a Dynamite, winner gets a title shot against Storm/Hayter winner. It wasn't the worst way to come in and my idea probably sucks too but I feel like it's a rushed match--but who knows what kind of shelf life she has. CM Punk gave us a few good matches/moments that trump anything the majority of AEW has accomplished without him so who knows, she might be that level up the women's division needs even for a hot minute.

  13. #13413
    World Champion Donald's Avatar
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    Wild prediction, but CM Punk returns at Full Gear to cause the Elite to lose their match.

  14. #13414
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    If the crowd isn't chanting CM Punk during the Trios title match then I'm disappointed with the level of smark mentality some AEW fans have.

    The problem is the dude is legit hurt and won't be doing anything for awhile.

  15. #13415
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    yeah he is legit hurt but even if he wasn't I am leaning on believing he is done with the company.

    I do expect some chants though.

  16. #13416
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donald View Post
    Gotta wonder why the WWE doctors never cleared her, but as soon as she's somewhere else she gets cleared immediately.

    I also don't think a doctor's gonna clear her unless she's 100% ready. Imagine the backlash against him or her if Paige does end up severely injured.
    She wasn't cleared as soon as she got there though. In an interview she said she got cleared on Halloween. Looks like she had been cleared to do some physical stuff but no matches and she went and got scans and stuff done and said she could go.

    WWE tends to play it safe honestly it seems at times. Danielson had to go through a lot to get clearance. Honestly don't blame them for that.

  17. #13417
    World Champion Donald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nash Diesel View Post
    If the crowd isn't chanting CM Punk during the Trios title match then I'm disappointed with the level of smark mentality some AEW fans have.

    The problem is the dude is legit hurt and won't be doing anything for awhile.
    They could always do the lights go out thing they love so much and then have CM Punk appear on the big screen, leading masked wrestler # 1 to roll up Kenny Omega for the win.

  18. #13418
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Hey if CM Punk is gone at least we got the MJF feud. I've said it several times but me personally I think that was one of the best feuds in many, many years I put that up there against anything that's came out post-Attitude Era as one of the best. Of any promotion. Everything before and after has felt "less than" imo. Imagine 3 years into the WWE and you get Stone Cold v. The Rock. How do you go up from there it's only down.

    Like I can't even think of a feud I care about if MJF wins the belt. Kind of want to see him interact with Kenny Omega as he's one of the few main eventers MJF hasn't worked with in AEW that I recall. That's more just a rankings thing I don't really care about the feud, MJF will smoke dude in one promo and that'll be it for "69 me Don!"

  19. #13419
    Pissed Off MTR's Avatar
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    The Punk/MJF feud was great.

  20. #13420
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    That and MJF's "Fire me you fucking mark" promo will be incredibly difficult to surpass and I think that's a problem I'm having right now with AEW. Mind you I'm almost 41 and don't have all the time in the world to watch the sunset let alone the 900 hours of wrestling I want to soak up. Add on 35 years of being a fan it's very hard for me to get hyped up for wrestling these days but somehow I pull it off. I think that's what's happening right now is that while there might be some really good stuff going on in AEW it pales in comparison to MJF and CM Punk.

  21. #13421
    The Fresh Maker Mazer's Avatar
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    CM Punk, Wardlow, and Y2J .....MJF was their top AEW feud, and nobody hit the same heights after.


    Convince me otherwise.

  22. #13422
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mazer View Post
    CM Punk, Wardlow, and Y2J .....MJF was their top AEW feud, and nobody hit the same heights after.


    Convince me otherwise.
    I agree 100%. I wasn't even a fan of the MJF/Jericho stuff but I agree it was Jericho's best work. Let's add Cody Rhodes to that mix too. I really liked that rivalry and he never hit the same stride. Him and Punk kind of have a bit of an excuse as Cody was kind of in and out doing other ventures and Punk was hurt lol. But it still holds true regardless.

    Whatever IT is, MJF gets it 100%. I believe in everything he says as a grown ass man but that's why it works. I don't think he goes home and takes off the MJF suit I think that's just him amped up. That's what weeds out the cosplayers. There have been a lot of wrestlers over the last 20 years or so who have benefitted from the scripted environment and/or the high spot Dick Grayson circus routines. There's a reason Juventud was just "there" until he took off the mask and sprayed the Juice. We wouldn't have some of the people we've had if it was about the total package.

  23. #13423
    Main Eventer BigAl's Avatar
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    I think it was on DDP's podcast where he said MJF is just Max turned up to 11. DDP compared MJF to guys like himself, Austin, the Rock, who just turn the dial as far as it can go on their personalities and magic happens.

  24. #13424
    World Champion Donald's Avatar
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    Is his in ring work any good? I mean the Rock was terrible in the ring but at least he worked with charisma.

  25. #13425
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donald View Post
    Is his in ring work any good? I mean the Rock was terrible in the ring but at least he worked with charisma.
    I guess it depends on what you define as good. I thought The Rock was very good in the ring. MJF can hold his own let's put it that way. It's not like watching Warrior or John Cena going through the motions.

  26. #13426
    too big to fail Tainted Eclipse's Avatar
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    yeah, the idea that rock was "terrible" in the ring is nuts imo. he had incredibly athleticism and several great matches. and his ring-work was pretty continuously improving and he was adapting for the more 'workrate' style as the low in-ring expectations of 1998 gave way to 2000-2002 with guys like benoit, eddie, and angle getting pushes. if he didn't leave for hollywood he probably only would've gotten better as a worker.

  27. #13427
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    I'll admit he had a terrible Sharpshooter but so did Sting after like 1994. Sting stopped giving a fuck and did that pitiful scorpion.

    The Rock easily held his own against the likes of Kurt Angle, Benoit, Jericho, etc. The Rock could literally work with anyone, any style didn't matter. You want hardcore? He's there. 60 minutes? He's there. Technical back and forth don't sleep on him.

  28. #13428
    The Fresh Maker Mazer's Avatar
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    I enjoyed the Rock. Quick pace. Mixed styles well. Committed to selling for every opponent

  29. #13429
    Former Videoland Champion Badger's Avatar
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    The worst thing about the Rock in the ring was his crapshooter (love the guy but it was horrible) and maybe his storyline punches but that was part of the fun when he played to the crowd.

    But other than that, he was generally fluid and athletic. I loved little things how he could float over into the likes of a spinebuster and DDT. If you’re a fan of the pure technical, mechanical paint by-the-numbers stuff then maybe Rock was not for you. However I personally liked the fluid transitions he did in between moves and put his flavour in between moves.

    Essentially not the best technically but he knew enough plus psychologically plus how to play the crowd instead of being too mechanically and robotic to the point the crowd were bored.

  30. #13430
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    Let's be honest The Rock could've came out and been the absolute shits and nobody would've thought much of it due to how charismatic he was/is. When you watch his 1998 run and his evolution from the Ken Shamrock feud to the Mick Foley stuff at the end of the year going into Mania 15 against Austin.....You never really hear anyone compare The Rock to people from the past but if Austin is Hogan, The Rock is Roddy Piper. Sure Austin had a great 1998 with HBK, Dude Love, Brothers of Destruction and Vince. But The Rock was his rival. I put Piper over Macho in terms of Hogan's biggest rival because Hogan v. Piper is what changed the game so Hogan v. Savage could be so big.

    Bringing this back to MJF I think despite being in the business several years and I believe even having a Stone Cold podcast interview prior to AEW, he's the guy that the casuals need to see. IDK if AEW is that platform but regardless, he's the #1 guy in AEW in my opinion. If the numbers don't match up I'd love to know who the top draw is if it isn't him. For this product, which isn't on the level of WWE nobody is or ever will be in our lifetimes so that's ok, but for AEW this guy has to be the man right? Like if someone that isn't a big fan came to me the big wrasslin fan and said "Who outside of WWE should I check out?" MJF is where I'm sending you with the fuck you mark promo, all the Punk and Regal promos he's layed down, maybe some of the Cody stuff. Fire.

  31. #13431
    Former Videoland Champion Badger's Avatar
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    I do agree that certain guys like Rock can bridge that in-ring gap with charisma (not that Rock was really that bad in the ring as per discussed) it is an entertainment and a business at the end of the day.

    As far as MJF goes, very much agree on the Punk feud. As far as his feud with Mox goes, although I could see storyline for both these scenarios. The Firm and him being in cahoots or he beats Moxley legit for the title, I am really hoping for the latter to continue the evolution of his character. Though he is still very young, if he was using the Firm all along then it would still in a way back to square one where he was. He’s a great heel, one of the best but I would love it more if he lived up to his word and beat Mox straight up without the Dynamite ring or the Firm.

    While young and if they went that route I could understand it but him building on that promo fire beating Mox straight up would be even more fantastic IMO getting that major legit title win at a younger age.

  32. #13432
    FBI Warning VHS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badger View Post
    I do agree that certain guys like Rock can bridge that in-ring gap with charisma (not that Rock was really that bad in the ring as per discussed) it is an entertainment and a business at the end of the day.

    As far as MJF goes, very much agree on the Punk feud. As far as his feud with Mox goes, although I could see storyline for both these scenarios. The Firm and him being in cahoots or he beats Moxley legit for the title, I am really hoping for the latter to continue the evolution of his character. Though he is still very young, if he was using the Firm all along then it would still in a way back to square one where he was. He¬’s a great heel, one of the best but I would love it more if he lived up to his word and beat Mox straight up without the Dynamite ring or the Firm.

    While young and if they went that route I could understand it but him building on that promo fire beating Mox straight up would be even more fantastic IMO getting that major legit title win at a younger age.
    I'm fine w/ MJF beating Mox straight up. Fuck yeah.

    Flip side, I'm also cool w/ MJF beating Mox by using some kind of shit tactic because... that's who MJF is. But we're parallel that him winning due to outside interference from The Firm(1993).

    Basically, I hope MJF wins and I'm fairly certain he will. Mox barely cares and can't even remember which day the PPV is on. He looks terrible compared to how he looked when he returned.

  33. #13433
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    Quote Originally Posted by VHS View Post
    I'm fine w/ MJF beating Mox straight up. Fuck yeah.

    Flip side, I'm also cool w/ MJF beating Mox by using some kind of shit tactic because... that's who MJF is. But we're parallel that him winning due to outside interference from The Firm(1993).

    Basically, I hope MJF wins and I'm fairly certain he will. Mox barely cares and can't even remember which day the PPV is on. He looks terrible compared to how he looked when he returned.
    Thank God It’s Saturday!

    I’m sure too that he will win either way and tbh won’t be great harm done if this is all a ruse and he could get that big clean win later. However, how much sweeter would it be if they struck while the iron is hot and gave him that big career-breaking clean win now? Although the big deal they’re making him about not using the Dynamite Diamond Ring as well makes me think other shenanigans are afoot.

  34. #13434
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    If you want MJF to be a babyface you have him beat Moxley clean and ride that accomplishment. Mox and the rare loss. Dude is making Super Cena look like a bitch lol.

    I have zero desire to see anything with The Firm. Ethan Page is good but he's someone I feel like should be on his own OR just have a manager. The pointless team with Scorpio Sky did him no favors. The pairing with Dan Lambert would've been better without Sky. Maybe I'm just expecting something out of Ethan that isn't even there, like there's no 3rd-4th gear he's just going to be in the middle forever.

  35. #13435
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    I don't watch AEW at all these days (seen two matches in +1 years) but I caught a pic of MJF recently and he looked to be in killer shape. Looks like he is taking this main event (and title reign?) seriously at least.

  36. #13436
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    Quote Originally Posted by OD50 View Post
    I don't watch AEW at all these days (seen two matches in +1 years) but I caught a pic of MJF recently and he looked to be in killer shape. Looks like he is taking this main event (and title reign?) seriously at least.
    I know it was just announced he's playing the fake Von Erich brother Lance but I wonder how long he's known about it and that's why he bulked up. Those 2-3 months he was gone he put in some serious work at the gym for sure.

  37. #13437
    The Fresh Maker Mazer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OD50 View Post
    I don't watch AEW at all these days (seen two matches in +1 years) but I caught a pic of MJF recently and he looked to be in killer shape. Looks like he is taking this main event (and title reign?) seriously at least.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nash Diesel View Post
    I know it was just announced he's playing the fake Von Erich brother Lance but I wonder how long he's known about it and that's why he bulked up. Those 2-3 months he was gone he put in some serious work at the gym for sure.
    Maybe a little bit of column A, little bit of column B.

  38. #13438
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    You know what's weird? The guy doesn't wrestle that often so when I see him in anything but his typical scarf, jacket, pants attire it throws me off for a bit. He has that goofy tat and idk, I'm not saying he should wrestle in street clothes but the other night when he was wearing the black tank top and pants he looked pretty sweet.

  39. #13439
    Pissed Off MTR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nash Diesel View Post
    If you want MJF to be a babyface you have him beat Moxley clean and ride that accomplishment. Mox and the rare loss. Dude is making Super Cena look like a bitch lol.

    I have zero desire to see anything with The Firm. Ethan Page is good but he's someone I feel like should be on his own OR just have a manager. The pointless team with Scorpio Sky did him no favors. The pairing with Dan Lambert would've been better without Sky. Maybe I'm just expecting something out of Ethan that isn't even there, like there's no 3rd-4th gear he's just going to be in the middle forever.
    Out of that group I think Page has the biggest upside and yeah I agree that having him with Sky really didn't do him any favors especially once they basically decided to push Sky as a singles instead of having them just do tags. I think he can be get above the middle but not sure he will actually get there between the way he is booked and the fact I think he could do better despite the booking.

  40. #13440
    The Fresh Maker Mazer's Avatar
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    Honestly, I don't see what "plus" areas Page has that are going to make him more than a solid midcarder.

  41. #13441
    World Champion Donald's Avatar
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    Really need to put him, Adam page, and Paige into a faction, with ddp as their mouthpiece.

    Page Turners
    Turn the Page
    Page Against THE machine

  42. #13442
    World Champion Donald's Avatar
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    I gotta admit I have no clue who Ethan page is

    I only know adam page from watching an awkward primo and epico with cm punk.

  43. #13443
    Former Videoland Champion Badger's Avatar
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    Page against the Machine where they rebel against authority would be glorious.

  44. #13444
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    Did like no one watch the PPV?

  45. #13445
    you either die a hero... Morrison's Avatar
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    i watched, like every other PPV. this thread tends to usually suck, though.

    first ppv of theirs where i truly felt the length. the women's title match ended and i thought we were going into the main event, only to find out we had the tag title match still. the darby/sting vs lethal/jarrett match was perfect for a dynamite or rampage, absolutely zero need to have this on the ppv. the tnt title triple threat also felt like it could've been a dynamite main event instead of taking up a big chunk of time here. storm/hayter was really great, but the crowd just wasn't engaged for most of it, and the tag title match just was not at the level it was booked and paced for with all the nearfalls and runtime.

    overall, i think this may be pretty low on my 'all time' list for AEW ppv's, but it was still pretty solid, all told.

  46. #13446
    Former Videoland Champion Badger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Defrost View Post
    Did like no one watch the PPV?
    I watch them the next day. Timezone and length, just don’t have the energy to watch these things live.

    I think overall “solid” is about right. Loved Jungle Boy/Lucha and the trios match. Shenanigans in MJF/Moxley. Quelle surprise in that one but seeing it’s Regal and rather than the Firm, I could let this pass a bit as they will kill it on the mic. Even the fans were turning on Mox lol. But yeah apart from that, nothing really stood out. Just too much overbooking, run-ins and “swerves” and not enough clean finishes. Mix it up a bit.

  47. #13447
    Former Videoland Champion Badger's Avatar
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    Plus waaay too many tombstones in these matches. I don’t know if this is them trying to pay tribute to Taker or whatever but they get overused way too much and watered down to like a signature move that’s kicked out of now.

  48. #13448
    too big to fail Tainted Eclipse's Avatar
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    i want a three hour PPV time limit so bad.

    and no loop hole using the pre-show as an extension of the PPV to make it four hours! one match on the pre-show, three hour main card. my dream.

  49. #13449
    Former Videoland Champion Badger's Avatar
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    “Less is more”

    They still don’t get it.

  50. #13450
    you either die a hero... Morrison's Avatar
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    they do. tony khan has addressed the ppv lengths a couple times now. he's aware of the complaints and criticisms, but has pretty much said with 4 core ppv's a year, he's not really concerned about the length and he'd rather pack the card in order to justify the price tag. cutting them down by an hour likely isn't going to garner many extra buys, so at that point it's just up to his philosophy and how he wants to run things.

  51. #13451
    Former Videoland Champion Badger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morrison View Post
    they do. tony khan has addressed the ppv lengths a couple times now. he's aware of the complaints and criticisms, but has pretty much said with 4 core ppv's a year, he's not really concerned about the length and he'd rather pack the card in order to justify the price tag. cutting them down by an hour likely isn't going to garner many extra buys, so at that point it's just up to his philosophy and how he wants to run things.
    Point about they have less PPV shows per year noted but at the same time they need to better build their TV shows. Not so much shit to the wall and see what sticks or so many random title matches given away for free on the back of one promo or two. Like for example “Oh Moxley defends against Penta on Rampage” just because he asked. Make people earn that shit . They’re throwing too much stuff away. There’s also the thing of too many titles and their ROH champions being regular AEW guys and not separating the titles though I also do realise too many titles might be a separate again.

    Essentially what it could boil down too IMO is despite the less PPV shows, they are still spreading themselves too thin. Take more time to build these matches and feuds rather than these “surprises” with their signings and such.

  52. #13452
    too big to fail Tainted Eclipse's Avatar
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    i don't think loading up the PPVs with 10+ matches really boosts business. you sell PPVs on the appeal of the one or two biggest matches, for the most part. cutting down the PPVs would leave them with more significant matches to put on TV to dry to drive up ratings.

    to see if a reduced runtime would make an impact on business, they'd have to dedicate probably a whole year to doing it to see if the different experience changes customer behavior. i'm an automatic PPV buyer, i'll continue to buy AEW PPVs by default unless they just suffer a catastrophic decline in quality as a promotion. but if i were a more marginal purchaser, the experience of being burned-out on a show a couple matches before the main event even *starts* would definitely disincentivize me to buy future shows.

  53. #13453
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    They need to get on a streaming service like Amazon or hulu

  54. #13454
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    A couple weeks of us talking about how AEW just isn't firing on all cylinders and the New Japan guy still can't figure out why there's not much discussion about the ppv lol.

    MJF winning, solid. Curious to know if this was the plan all along but they just replaced Punk with Mox.

    As far as the ppv time goes....Let's be honest, we've sat through longer ppvs from other companies and the people watching AEW religiously and ordering the ppvs don't care if they go 3 hours or 13 hours.

  55. #13455
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    - The show was too long.
    - The first two women's matches weren't given any favors in the sense of the matches they had to follow.
    - It is cool that the trios championship is now part of a best-of-seven, but I think that would have been better to know prior to the fact lol.
    - The tag title trilogy was two matches too many.
    - Thought the ROH and TNT championship matches were pretty good.
    - Glad to see they pulled the trigger with Jamie. The interim stuff is silly, though.
    - Fun main event.

  56. #13456
    Former Videoland Champion Badger's Avatar
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    The heat for Elite during that trios match from the Chicago was nuclear! Vibes of Cena in ECW One Night Stand.

    Also they finally binned the interim shit and Hayter’s the proper champion. Thank God for that!

  57. #13457
    FBI Warning VHS's Avatar
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    Tough time for Thunder. She made the right call

  58. #13458
    Pissed Off MTR's Avatar
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    Haven't watched it yet but glad we don't have an interim champ anymore. Hate that shit. I hate it in UFC. I hate it everywhere. I am fine with giving someone a little bit of time and maybe delay a defense but if they can't go strip them and crown a new champ and the former champ can be brought back into the mix as soon as they are back.

  59. #13459
    Former Videoland Champion Badger's Avatar
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    Retroactively Toni Storm is also recognised as being an official champion.

    Could’ve easily just done this with the official title then save a title match for Thunder when or if she comes back. Could’ve saved a whole lot of bother.

  60. #13460
    Former Videoland Champion Badger's Avatar
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    Also that Jericho/Ishii match was badass. Jericho’s bleeding chest…ooyah!

    Great opening segment too with Regal, Bryan and Mox with the latter quoting Simba/Scar from the Lion King to Regal. Curious if this may lead to a heel turn for Bryan siding with Regal and MJF.

  61. #13461
    World Champion Murphy's Avatar
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    Regal getting MJFs name wrong. Oh dear. "Mr Freeman" over and over again.

  62. #13462
    World Champion Murphy's Avatar
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    Oh, and Jericho's chops are shit. Chris Benoit would be spinning in his grave, if he had one and hadn't melted.

  63. #13463
    Former Videoland Champion Badger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Murphy View Post
    Regal getting MJFs name wrong. Oh dear. "Mr Freeman" over and over again.
    Wouldn’t be surprised if it was by design like he does eg Humanga. Triple Haitch.

    Quote Originally Posted by Murphy View Post
    Oh, and Jericho's chops are shit. Chris Benoit would be spinning in his grave, if he had one and hadn't melted.
    I suspect that might have been design too to add to how brutal Ishii’s chops were. Jericho tried him chop for chop but clearly not working due to his chest bleeding so he resorted to other tactics.

  64. #13464
    too big to fail Tainted Eclipse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Murphy View Post
    Oh, and Jericho's chops are shit. Chris Benoit would be spinning in his grave, if he had one and hadn't melted.
    jericho's had some recent matches where he's really laid his chops in hard. kinda funny he was doing the opposite against a guy who literally busted his chest open.

  65. #13465
    E-Bow The Poster Rancid_Planet's Avatar
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    Jericho's chops have always looked weird to me and I think its his stubby arms.

  66. #13466
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badger View Post
    The heat for Elite during that trios match from the Chicago was nuclear! Vibes of Cena in ECW One Night Stand.

    Also they finally binned the interim shit and Hayter’s the proper champion. Thank God for that!
    Naw, Cena in ECW was special and everyone there fucking hated him. The other night you still had about 30 neckbeards chanting "Fuck CM Punk" I thought it was going to be nuclear but then I realized it's AEW. If this happened in WWE you'd be hearing CM Punk's name chanted the entire night just to piss off the suits. In AEW, not so much. The loyalty is to Tony Khan in hopes he'll throw them some money or invite one of them in the ring to give the World champion a stunner.

  67. #13467
    The Fresh Maker Mazer's Avatar
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    For a North American major company, was the ONS crowd the hottest of all-time?

    And by all-time, I obviously mean since 1980

  68. #13468
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mazer View Post
    For a North American major company, was the ONS crowd the hottest of all-time?

    And by all-time, I obviously mean since 1980
    Just for clarification in case someone nitpicks we're obviously talking about ONS 2 with Cena v. RVD and not the original. But with that said, I think both shows had the hottest crowd for a ppv I've ever seen. The first time the crowd was all about the chants, even on the pre-show I think they had Coach and they were chanting STFU and the pre-show was on USA or whatever channel they were on at the time.

    ONS 2 was the next level. If you hated Cena and couldn't voice your displeasure properly at 19,000 seat venue, this was the place to be lol. That 3-4 minute "segment" of Cena and the fans tossing the shirt back and forth. I don't see how anyone couldn't be a fan of John Cena after this match. I don't think I've ever seen a crowd eat someone alive like that before lol.

  69. #13469
    The Fresh Maker Mazer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nash Diesel View Post
    Just for clarification in case someone nitpicks we're obviously talking about ONS 2 with Cena v. RVD and not the original. But with that said, I think both shows had the hottest crowd for a ppv I've ever seen. The first time the crowd was all about the chants, even on the pre-show I think they had Coach and they were chanting STFU and the pre-show was on USA or whatever channel they were on at the time.

    ONS 2 was the next level. If you hated Cena and couldn't voice your displeasure properly at 19,000 seat venue, this was the place to be lol. That 3-4 minute "segment" of Cena and the fans tossing the shirt back and forth. I don't see how anyone couldn't be a fan of John Cena after this match. I don't think I've ever seen a crowd eat someone alive like that before lol.
    Good clarification. Yes, you read me correctly. ONS 2.


    I agree with ONS 2 as next level-although i'm sure there were some small shows I haven't watched where every single person was an adopted family member of every performer, and they literally cut themselves with every bump.


    I was thinking only of the shows that were at least somewhat part of the "mainstream" wrestling fan community, and had a crowd that was at least big enough to get past a few hundred people. I couldn't recall one, in that general world, that I would put over ONS 2. The undercard. The fact that it was Cena coming in vs. RVD. The setting. That's just really a tough set of circumstances to replicate.

    Although, it would be interesting to also think what was the hottest stadium size crowd as well.

  70. #13470
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mazer View Post
    Good clarification. Yes, you read me correctly. ONS 2.


    I agree with ONS 2 as next level-although i'm sure there were some small shows I haven't watched where every single person was an adopted family member of every performer, and they literally cut themselves with every bump.


    I was thinking only of the shows that were at least somewhat part of the "mainstream" wrestling fan community, and had a crowd that was at least big enough to get past a few hundred people. I couldn't recall one, in that general world, that I would put over ONS 2. The undercard. The fact that it was Cena coming in vs. RVD. The setting. That's just really a tough set of circumstances to replicate.

    Although, it would be interesting to also think what was the hottest stadium size crowd as well.
    Yeah like I was thinking ECW itself probably had some really really hot crowds but I never considered them a major promotion like WCW or WWE. ONS 2 just had that feeling like they were legit going to riot if RVD lost lol.

  71. #13471
    The Fresh Maker Mazer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nash Diesel View Post
    Yeah like I was thinking ECW itself probably had some really really hot crowds but I never considered them a major promotion like WCW or WWE. ONS 2 just had that feeling like they were legit going to riot if RVD lost lol.
    Definitely. Back then I was not watching a lot of PPVs live. Broke and whatnot (thank you WWE network). But that was one where, even going in, you just had the feeling that you wanted to see it as it happened. You really did not know how that crowd was going to play out at that event.

    Like I just imagine some poor Cena fan walking in unaware.

  72. #13472
    World Champion Donald's Avatar
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    It might have been a hot crowd but the only thing I remember from it is RVD vs. John Cena lol. Was that the one where Heyman told JBL the only reason he was champion for a year was because Triple H didn't want to work Tuesdays?

  73. #13473
    The Fresh Maker Mazer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donald View Post
    It might have been a hot crowd but the only thing I remember from it is RVD vs. John Cena lol. Was that the one where Heyman told JBL the only reason he was champion for a year was because Triple H didn't want to work Tuesdays?
    was that the year previous?

  74. #13474
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donald View Post
    It might have been a hot crowd but the only thing I remember from it is RVD vs. John Cena lol. Was that the one where Heyman told JBL the only reason he was champion for a year was because Triple H didn't want to work Tuesdays?
    haha no that was the first ONS. That was the peak of roided up dudes in WWE I think Eddie passed that year, Benoit a few years later. You go back and half the WWE guys are either dead or retired.

  75. #13475
    World Champion Donald's Avatar
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    Do Dark and Elevation have storylines, or is it basically just matches?

  76. #13476
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donald View Post
    Do Dark and Elevation have storylines, or is it basically just matches?
    I'm going to probably be wrong but I'm about 99.9% positive there are no storylines. When you look at the ticker during Rampage/Dynamite, none of the matches make sense. You'll see a match like Eddie Kingston v. Jim Brownstone and then Toni Storm v. Blue Jeans. They're jobber matches. It's like watching Superstars back in 1993.

  77. #13477
    an affront to god mth's Avatar
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    They have had some storylines. I know the Sonny Kiss/Joey Janela tag team split played out entirely on there.

  78. #13478
    Pissed Off MTR's Avatar
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    Mostly just matches but there are some stories here and there.

    They kept matching Deeb and Martinez together as a tag team on Dark and Dark Elevation and then threw them on Dynamite and Rampage and had Deeb turn on Martinez and challenge her for the ROH title.

    Some of the stuff with Sonny Kiss and the Trust Busters was on Dark and what not before Sonny turned heel and joined on Rampage.

    I think sometimes there is some short stuff that happens that sets up another match but I would say most of it is just random matches that sometimes use local talent in squash matches.

  79. #13479
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Basically the nothing wrestlers like Sonny Kiss and Joey Janella getting some sort of angle to go with the nothing shows they wrestle on, or maybe we make that past tense where the hell is Sonny Kiss? Turned heel, was never seen on the A-B shows since lol.

    WE'RE INCLUSIVE! Shout out to Cody Rhodes.

  80. #13480
    World Champion Donald's Avatar
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    Am I the only one who thinks of Sonny Ono when seeing the name Sonny Kiss.

  81. #13481
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donald View Post
    Am I the only one who thinks of Sonny Ono when seeing the name Sonny Kiss.
    Not anymore because now I will think the same lol.

    Sonny Kiss turned heel and Twitter was like, we can't boo this character we'll get cancelled!

    I love Sonny Kiss I wish they were part of the show more often. 3 years and we've probably seen Kiss wrestle 10 times if that on either show. Why? Is it like against Khan's religion? They feature The Acclaimed and all that scissor me timbers stuff (fucking awesome) so maybe there's a cap on how much diversity is actually allowed? I wonder if the Young Bucks are trying to use their Christian values to destroy Kiss like they did Kanyon. Weird how shortly after they link up with Kanyon he dies....

  82. #13482
    Pissed Off MTR's Avatar
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    Yeah I wish Kiss was part of the show more.

  83. #13483
    an affront to god mth's Avatar
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    When Kiss turned heel by booting Orange in the dick, I thought, "Ooh, nice, we're gonna get Sonny vs. Orange" and then...nope.

  84. #13484
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    I want Sonny Kiss in NXT.

  85. #13485
    an affront to god mth's Avatar
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    Hell yeah.

  86. #13486
    Champ is Gone
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    That MJF promo was dog shit

  87. #13487
    World Champion lotjx's Avatar
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    My fear of MJF being champ and his contract being up is we are going to get him being champ and nothing will matter til 2024. Its the same problem with Roman, we know he is not losing til Mania or maybe until Mania 40, so its just spinning wheels til then.

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    too big to fail Tainted Eclipse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Defrost View Post
    That MJF promo was dog shit
    Totally agree. A rambling mess.

  89. #13489
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    Mox Vs Ramp is more interesting that Mox Vs Page.

    I have no idea what they are thinking with MJF. I don't know who has control or who has wrote it but it's, as you may say across the pond, a hot mess. It's like they can't decide whether to lean into being a "tweener" or whatever. They made Regal look dumb as fuck which makes me wonder if he is actually going to go back to WWE.

    He's had more pseudo turns than Paul White.

  90. #13490
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lotjx View Post
    My fear of MJF being champ and his contract being up is we are going to get him being champ and nothing will matter til 2024. Its the same problem with Roman, we know he is not losing til Mania or maybe until Mania 40, so its just spinning wheels til then.
    Dude you have the worst takes on wrestling.

    MJF, if you're a hardcore fan he's the hottest thing going today not involved with The Bloodline in WWE. MJF is imo the biggest draw in AEW. You can be a top heel and the biggest draw in the company look at Roman Reigns. Sometimes people tune in to see how the villain is going to fall.

    MJF is what, 2 weeks into his championship reign and you're already sour about it? Fantasy booking a miserable run in a company I would be shocked you even watch.

  91. #13491
    Pissed Off MTR's Avatar
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    I am all about MJF but that promo last night was not good. His reign will be fine. Looking forward to see what they do with it. He is on fire but last night was a bit of a miss for me but that is okay. It will be fine.

  92. #13492
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MTR View Post
    I am all about MJF but that promo last night was not good. His reign will be fine. Looking forward to see what they do with it. He is on fire but last night was a bit of a miss for me but that is okay. It will be fine.
    OK. So he's not allowed to have one bad promo out of 100? He had a shit promo running down Brian Pillman JR with all that dead dad talk. His promo last night was better than any other promo last night.

  93. #13493
    Pissed Off MTR's Avatar
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    I said it will be fine and I am fan. Yeah one bad promo is fine. Sorry if I was not clear with that.

  94. #13494
    World Champion Donald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nash Diesel View Post
    Dude you have the worst takes on wrestling.

    MJF, if you're a hardcore fan he's the hottest thing going today not involved with The Bloodline in WWE. MJF is imo the biggest draw in AEW. You can be a top heel and the biggest draw in the company look at Roman Reigns. Sometimes people tune in to see how the villain is going to fall.

    MJF is what, 2 weeks into his championship reign and you're already sour about it? Fantasy booking a miserable run in a company I would be shocked you even watch.
    Be careful, he might blow a gasket you responded to him.

  95. #13495
    an affront to god mth's Avatar
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    Interesting to see the negative reaction to MJF's promo here when the Dynamite review I read last night said it was excellent and had nothing but praise for it.

  96. #13496
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    I think I expected the level that normally get from him and I think I want him to not get used to using the bidding war of 2024 as a crutch because right now we have moved on from that bit of the story in my view. It was not a terrible promo but it was not good either in terms of MJF. It was also a bit rambly at times as well. I liked the end where he took out Regal to show him how much of a villain he is.

    At the end of the day still a huge fan and he is on fire and I am looking forward to his reign.

  97. #13497
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    MTR I feel where you're coming from. I probably should've quoted Defrost and Tetris as well as I feel like they're not really fans of the product especially Defrost.

    I liked the promo. I don't retain all the promos he's done over the years but I'm positive he's had some duds just like any other top talker. Sometimes I think people like Defrost look for anything to knock down a top American wrestler.

    Quote Originally Posted by Donald View Post
    Be careful, he might blow a gasket you responded to him.
    He don't want the smoke.

  98. #13498
    World Champion Donald's Avatar
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    The handful of MJF promos I've seen seem to ramble on and says things just for shock value. Didn't watch last night's yet though.

    I hope MJF beats a few challengers, maybe Daniel Bryan, Darby Allin, etc., then have him say he's beaten them all, only for Wardlow to come out. Wardlow should be the one to unseat MJF in my opinion.

  99. #13499
    World Champion Donald's Avatar
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    Reading reports that William Regal is on his way back to WWE? How is that possible if he signed a 3 year deal, or so I read?

  100. #13500
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donald View Post
    The handful of MJF promos I've seen seem to ramble on and says things just for shock value. Didn't watch last night's yet though.

    I hope MJF beats a few challengers, maybe Daniel Bryan, Darby Allin, etc., then have him say he's beaten them all, only for Wardlow to come out. Wardlow should be the one to unseat MJF in my opinion.
    I've always said that MJF is so good he doesn't need the ultra shock and awe approach. That's why I mentioned the Brian Pillman Jr stuff. Take out all the low hanging fruit stuff and it's a good promo. All that shit talking to Pillman's aunt and stuff about his dad.....If that wasn't just a filler feud and Pillman Jr got something out of it I would have probably retracted my negative opinion the same way I did about Christian Cage's stuff toward Jungle Boy. When you're already capable of getting over as a heel, doing the low brow shit just turns me off. No different than Paige bringing up Charlotte's brother Reid or Orton saying Eddie's in hell.

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