One thing that's going to make it hard for her to become the Female Brock is that there's no Female Undertaker with an undefeated 'Mania streak to break.Originally Posted by Rancid_Planet
One thing that's going to make it hard for her to become the Female Brock is that there's no Female Undertaker with an undefeated 'Mania streak to break.
Just have Rousey be both.
Let's hit a couple SummerSlam Participants.
First up we have someone who has a long and respected career outside of WWE. Since coming to WWE he's had big moments, but not THE big moment. He's over with the fans, but one has to wonder where the ceiling is.
If he's stuck in the upper mid-card, this is the high point. If he get's a run with the title, his value goes up.
BUY OR SELL: SAMOA JOE
I'll make a short-term buy on him.
Buy. I don't think they've even scratched the surface with Joe. A few injuries have slowed his push but it looks like WWE believe in him as a main event level guy.
Buy.
hes got potential as a killer heel or an ass kicking face. I think he could be just as valuable as AJ Styles is now.
I will hesitantly Buy, only because of Joe's string of injuries. As long as he can stay healthy, I think he will be a fixture in the Main Event scene for a few more years.
I don't think Joe is going any higher than he is right now - main event champ-level contender. And even if he is given the strap, I don't think it could last long, so I am more inclined to either push or reluctantly sell on Joe at the present. And I hope I am wrong, because I like the guy.
I'm buying. I think Joe has one run in him. He's a guy who does benefit from the split. He's a good worker, over, works the mic well, and can carry his end of a storyline.
I think he has one run with the title, and he plays a good heel for the face to chase.
Buy
And then I will sell the right after his championship reign starts.
I'll buy on Joe. I think he's going to get a run with the top title as soon as this Sunday so things will look up for him, at least for awhile.
Selling Joe in the hype, look at all these buyers driving the price up
Let's revisit the stocks, just after Wrestlemania.
The first one:
In some ways, Becky might never have a bigger moment than she did on Sunday.
In other ways, she's still not reached the sustained megastar level. Could she get there?
Becky Lunch: Buy or Sell?
Sell on Becky - she may sustain this level, and I hope she does, but she will never get any higher.
I am a cautious buy right now.
Had she won with a submission on Ronda I would've sold, but I think they can come back to it.
I wouldn't sell all of my shares but I'm selling more of them than I'm trying to buy. I think she's got to do heavier lifting now and the remaining pieces she has to work with are not going to be nearly as interesting or potentially as compelling as Ronda and Charlotte. That's going to require creative to build these women up and I'm not sure that's promising.
Last edited by BGMaverick; April 9th, 2019 at 3:25 PM.
Sell sell sell. There is no where for her to go but down.
I'm going to buy.
Growing up in the 80's and 90's, the best workers were never the elite top stars. Austin and Hogan, not Angle and Bret, were the biggest draws. Becky wins in the fact that Charlotte's played out and Ronda's shelf life is of the Lesnar variety so she's not someone you can count on. And even so, Becky surpassed her in the wrestling bubble and there's still the 1 on 1 against Ronda that they will no doubt be able to take to the next level.
Mania makes things seem a lot bigger than they are, so I can respect people thinking "that's it". But I would put the house on it that people didn't think Austin was going to be able to get any bigger than he was after beating Shawn, I would bet money people thought Cena's window of ultimate fame ended after he started getting booed a few months into his first World title reign. Becky's just now getting the real big push, I have high hopes.
Publicly sell most of my stock, advise everyone else to sell as loudly as possible and act very smug when the price drops. Then once the price has dropped, buy double the amount of shares I used to have in anticipation of her being a long-term sustained star.Let's revisit the stocks, just after Wrestlemania.
The first one:
In some ways, Becky might never have a bigger moment than she did on Sunday.
In other ways, she's still not reached the sustained megastar level. Could she get there?
Becky Lunch: Buy or Sell?
Does this come with soup, salad, chips, fries or a drink?
Dammit.
there's no salad option. becky demands you select the soup.
Becky LYNCH
Kdestiny: Soft Buy
BG Maverick: Soft Sell
Kneeneighbor: Strong Sell
Nash: Buy
Kotre: Short term Sell, Long-term Buy
Smeagol: cheeky
Mazer, short-term buy, Long-term sell
I see becky having one more big moment, and potentially putting Ronda on leave, whenever she decides to walk away. I also am holding out that there might be a faction feud in the future.
But it is really hard to sustain this type of momentum. I think the 12 months from Summerslam 2018 to 19 are the peak. After the next big moment, I'm selling.
I am going to start going back and seeing how some of our last projections held up. Good suggestion from BGM.
Last edited by Mazer; April 10th, 2019 at 1:13 AM.
I'd go with sell. It was a months-long build getting to Wrestlemania and I think the momentum cooled off considerably trying to make the angle work keeping people off TV with just enough time.... with no Rhonda and (for now) few legitimate contenders built up I see a long reign or a long, boring reign now. At the mountain top but only one way to go from there. For me it's a matter of how long can this last? I'd love to be wrong and see this last awhile though.
I'm buying more Becky stock.
It's a risk I'll admit as she may have peaked but something tells me she may actually be an even bigger star later this year than she is now.
I’ll buy every share of Becky stock. She’s the top star in the company.
While this might be true, it is not a good thing for the future of the company.
How on earth do you figure that?
She's Irish.
And they're dirty drunks.
Everyone knows that.
WWE is good at hot-shotting people to a top spot and then giving them a big, defining moment where they get to be at the top of the world. Before they immediately plummet off the other side of the world and come crashing back down to earth.
Becky had her WrestleMania moment, but now she's headed into a feud with Lacey Evans. Big step down.
I'll buy some stock in Becky, but I've got my capital gains manager on speed dial to sell the minute she loses to a Lacey Evans' right hand.
Are ratings going up or down this year? Is she creating any new fans who watch the shows that were not previously?
Last edited by _me; April 10th, 2019 at 8:25 AM.
I don't know how much of a good thing that is. Will Becky vs Lacey Evans main event a ppv? Legit question. I will confidently say no.
Would the women have main evented Mania without Rousey? Doubt it. I think her stock has dropped a lot since the Rumble.
Becky is easily the 3rd or 4th most talented woman performer on the roster.
Charlotte is who you want to be building as the top star.
nobody is though.
Short-term buy on Becky.
Although I've not been a big fan of how they've booked the Ronda/Charlotte/Becky feud, there's no denying Becky's popularity and I hope they sustain her for a long title reign. At the same time though, I am being cautious about how they will handle her and if they can keep her fresh.
Sell on Becky. Stock has had a great run, only way is down.
Becky is a lot less over than she was a couple months ago. The build to wrestlemania did her no favors. Kofi is more over by now.
I disagree with your first sentence because you said "a lot", but wholeheartedly agree with the last 2 sentences
If it were me, I would have bought as much as I could a month or two prior to Summerslam when it appeared the push was happening. I obviously would have taken a hit with her not actually winning and then getting a heel turn but she ultimately rode a wave for several months. Shoddy booking aside, she's in a much stronger place than she was 8-10 months ago. As I said, I'd sell some of it now and be happy with how things turned out.
Sell Becky. The Rumble to Mania absolutely killed her for the main part, the match and finish at WM were a bit meh and for all she is phenomenal on twitter, her delivery on the mic isn't always amazing.
Yes. They’re called women.
iirc, push is an option (neither buy nor sell). Becky could go either way. She's achieved allot in a very short time. I'm not sure what's left other than a 1 on 1 with Ronda. The women's division also doesn't have any more milestones to reach or history to make. They've done it all at this point. Like others have said, Becky needs some hot opponents to feud with, and there's very few options right now. Ultimately, it depends on where WWE goes with the women's division. Do they still see value in it now that they've blown their load on the 'Mania main event? That being said, I think Becky will take whatever creative gives her and knock it out of the park, which is why I'm not buying or selling.
Then even more men are not watching because of it because they lost almost 1M viewers in the past year.
- - - Updated - - -
Agree. But that is not good for anyone's business. Just like lower ratings is not good for WWE's business.
are there any stats that support this? ratings, live attendance, or subscriptions go up?
Given that RAW ratings had the biggest drop when Becky was primarily on Smackdown, it would seem to dispute that Becky was the one hurting the ratings.
Still long-term sell though. heavy is the head that wears the crown.
Normally agreed, but I’d still buy Kofi despite him now wearing that crown.
Becky, personally, isn't hurting the ratings. Focusing on women in general is hurting the ratings.
There are a LOT of things hurting the ratings.
Very true. But the women are not adding more viewers than they lose either.
I don't think it's an either/or thing. It seems like you're trying to say that if more women start watching for the likes of Becky then somehow an equal or greater number of men will then stop watching.
That doesn't make any sense.
The women's segments have been doing better numbers than a lot of the other segments for the past couple years. This according to the quarter hour breakdown stats we get from insiders.
Even then, the women's segments are a very small fraction of the show.
If anything they need to do more with the women. Not less.
It might not make sense to you but it is what is happening. Female viewership is up but male viewers are way down. Sure it could be other reasons but the facts are the same regardless of the reasons. And the post-WM (that where Lynch was the main event) RAW got the lowest ratings ever.
if you have a better explanation, I would be glad to consider it. But the most logical explanation is that Becky Lynch (or any woman) does not draw viewers to WWE. Even viewers who tuned in previous years.
I think the most logical explanantion, and the numbers would seem to back me up, is that the ONLY thing worthwhile about the current product, the only thing new or interesting, is the women's division.
Everything else is just the same old crap and the fan base is dwindling like a motherfucker. Not because of the success of the Becky Lynches but in spite of it.
It's not like they're forced to make some conscious decision "We have to either put on women's matches or make everything else more entertaining and exciting. But it can't be both."
The formulaic, same old same old production of the WWE product is killing it. Not a surprise that the one thing they're doing now that they didn't do 10 years ago is drawing numbers and making new fans but nothing else is.
I am not arguing that the females are not the most interesting part of RAW. I am arguing that most former fans of WWE have no interest in watching them (no matter how great they are).
Yes, a selection of the audience is tuning in for the females. But even more don't watch ANY of RAW/SD because they are not interested in the entire concept. Maybe they were going to leave anyway but the fact remains that the women don't bring them back.
The RR to WM push is always the biggest audiences of the year. It gets tons of fans who only watch those specific weeks (like me). But those fans didn't return this year (like me). Sure it could be because the product is stale. But it is stale every year and they always used to come back. The only real difference between this year and last year is the females at the top of the card.
So you're seriously arguing that pushing women is why business is down? Despite the steady decline of business for a decade now?
Of course they're not. Nothing is. There is absolutely no way for you to draw a line between women's wrestling and decline in business beyond your clear desire to do so.
Yes I am. The traditional demo of WWE (teenage boys) is not interested in watching women wrestle. The decline is bigger than it ever has been.
Are women featured more prominently than ever? Are the ratings falling faster than anytime in the past?
Teenage boys are not WWE's target demographic. They aim at children age 8-12 and adult age 22-54. Otherwise known as people with money who buy things.
Business is not declining in any sense except in terms of ratings, which are impossible to compare to any other era due to the overall decline in cable television ratings.
Funnily enough, when Becky Lynch is on tv, the ratings don't drop. Funny how that works.
Also, listen to the fucking crowds! Yes they are interested in the womens matches! How deep does your misogyny have to go to not be able to recognize that?
Yes the fans still around like it just fine. I am talking about the people who've left and didn't return for WM like they usually do.
Do you live in America? Or at least watch the news? Have you been paying attention to the world at all? There are many, many, many people who hate the idea of "equality". They see it as affirmative action for the unqualified and see it as more qualified people being "held back". They openly mock the idea of "being woke" and #metoo. And many, many of those people were formally WWE fans. You are being incredibly naive if you don't think that plays a role in the decline. Look at what happened the NFL once they got "political".
When people crave for the WWE to return to "The Attitude" era, what do you think they want? They want a non-PC show that pushes the limits on offending people, including treating women like sex objects. Is that a good thing? Of course not. But it still true.
Fuck off with this bollocks.
I'm on your side here but I do believe gates and merch are down as well year to year.
Fuck the fuck of with this fucking bollocksing fucking bollocks.
Christ. Reductive doesn’t even approach this nonsense.
That’s fair. Maybe the answer is to get rid of men’s wrestling. Doesn’t seem like people are interested in them any longer.
Male/Female has nothing to do with that though (as I think you agree, just making the factual point).
Stagnancy has fucked them over. The new direction the past 6 months is the start of the turn round. It takes time for momentum to take hold. A year from now we will see stronger ratings, live attendance and merch. The women will be driving it as much as the men.
Don’t sit there and pretend to be playing devil’s advocate while you push this trash. Its trash.
People remember the good old days through rose colored glasses. There's a reason that Springer is now on at 2 a.m. And it ain't political correctness.
Everything gets old and the "Ass and Titties" era of wrestling would bore people to tears now.
I'm sure there are people who wish it would come back. But there are also people who believe in bigfoot. Nobody is rejecting WWE because of putting women on top. Not in numbers that matter anyway.
I guran goddamn tee you that without the women's triple threat on top, this year's mania would have been a dead fish. Brock isn't a hot commodity anymore and they've failed to make any new main event level stars for about 4 years now. All of the WWE's failings have led to the tv viewership numbers going down every year for years and years.
But they get one thing right and make a draw off it and THAT'S the thing you want to point to and say it's dragging down business?
_me. You are a smart guy making a dumb argument.
I know because I've been that guy.
Wow, this thread really got derailed.
Well he was talking shit about Becky dude.
Can't have that.
In summary, I’ll buy all of me’s Becky stock.
I thought I'd give this a bump since I like the concept.
Seth Rollins
We've seen him win the Rumble and slay the Beast at WrestleMania. However, his post 'Mania run as the champ was lackluster, thanks in no small part to a prolonged feud with Baron Corbin. Seth seems to have lost momentum, and after losing the Universal title back to Brock via MITB Cash In, has given some genuinely cringy promos. He's supposed to be the top buy on RAW, but isn't connecting with fans as well as some other Superstars. Should he regain the title at SummerSlam, will things turn around for the Architect, or can we expect more of the same?
Buy, Sell, or Push?
Sell. Can go in the ring, but so can everyone, and not everyone is a nasally voiced little scrotum like him. Surely due a heel turn?
Push.
He's done enough and he really hasn't set the world on fire. Pun. WWE needs a new top/top guy and I don't think Seth is going to be that guy. Roman, now that he's had a new chance at life... he's still got a chance. The guys I feel WWE can and should bank on as a top face they would be Bryan, Owens, and Balor. Seth's great, but he's better as a heel.
Push. Seth will have another run at the top strap someday, but they will probably delay it until at least Mania, and they'll have him in a long feud with Lashley until then.
I agree that he's a better heel, and I'd like to see him help bring someone like Ricochet or Ali to the top-card level.
I'm inclined to Push as well. While I'm not confident Seth's booking will turn around, I don't think he's going to get pushed all the way down the card. Even if he's not the top guy, he'll continue to be featured in the main event for many years to come.
Push. Getting paired up with Baron Corbin for extended time really didn't accomplish much. High point of the year beating Lesnar for the title seems like it was years ago. I think he will rebound before year's end whether that means another program but with heel AJ fighting off the Club or a heel turn, I expect some changes.
I love this game and I feel like I play it the right way. I treat these wrestlers as real stocks on the market. And having said that we all know how I feel about Seth (my boy) Rollins. He's my favorite wrestler in the world. I love everything he does. Ever since the summer when he set the WWE on fire as the best heel champ since the peak of the Edge era on SmackDown, I've fallen head over heels in love with the man.
But it's a sell. Total sell.
He has accomplished everything he's going to as a baby face in this company. He's conquered HHH at Wrestlemania. He's defeated Brock at Wrestlemania. He's reunited with The Shield. He's done it all and there is very little value remaining with Seth Rollins the babyface champion.
When we see the telltale signs of a heel turn coming then BUY BUY BUY because his second run as a main event level heel will probably put his first one to shame.
But for now, I'm bored with and tired of Seth Rollins in his current role and see very little of potential interest in the future.
Agreed, unless you r truth after losing your title it's a good time to sell
Since you say "But it's a sell. Total sell." and then very shortly after you say "BUY BUY BUY", you're actually making the PUSH argument.
No, because he laid out two different sets of circumstances. PUSH means you expect his stock to remain the same.
I guess it depends on the timeframe involved. PUSH means you think it's just as likely the stock will go down as well as go up, or remain the same. And the range of +/- of course matters. While it's certainly possible Seth's stock may fall a little bit - he's not the champ now but he does have a title shot at the next PPV, it's not like he's gonna fall all the way down to the Jinder Mahal range real quick. It's also possible he wins at the next PPV and holds the belt for a long long time, and starts getting booked like SuperCena for the rest of his HOF career. Personally, I think that could be boring, but it would probably raise his value.
If he loses to Brock at SummerSlam because Brock gets himself DQ'd, Seth stays in the main event scene. Perhaps he goes on to a great feud with AJ and maybe then Andrade (when they pull the trigger on the Seth/Becky vs Andrade/Charlotte) his value probably remains about where it is now. Only when that stalls, will his value really begin to drop, until a heel turn would raise it - perhaps to levels above where he is now, but perhaps only to his current level.
I'm not a day trader - I can't afford the levels of volume needed to avoid concerns about minor price fluctuations being outweighed by transaction costs.
Seth had a ton of momentum going behind him in the lead up to Wrestlemania, but I think a big percentage of it was because everybody was so ready for Brock to finally drop the belt.
After tallying up the bids, here's where Seth stands:
- Buy: 0
- Sell: 2
- Push: 4
Does anyone feel differently after SummerSlam?
I think it's time for a new stock. I'm bringing the Monster Among Men to the table.
Braun Strowman
Braun hasn't been much of a factor this year. His booking has been highly questionable, feuding with SNL cast members, and even a freaking car. He's a shadow of the unstoppable Monster we've come to know and love. However, his surprise save on Monday night has me wondering if the thrower of massive hands is finally back on track. Is this a sign of good things to come, or just a temporary bright spot before he's chasing after the 24/7 title with all the jobbers?
Buy, Sell, or Push?
I am going to Sell because I am not sure his popularity is going to get to the same place it was a few years ago unless creative really get their act together with him.
Him being pinned by Brock after one F5 was not good for him.
It looks like he is going for the Universal title but I doubt he's winning. It's a plus he could be in the last match at the next ppv but for how long?
Push
God this one is hard. Differentiating between the potential he has as a character and how much WWE actually have interest in him is key. But also we've finally reached a period where Vince is sitting on the panic button and jumping up and down on it. He wants better ratings and he wants them now. So I feel like he's going to start trying a bunch of new things in the main event soon in order to make that happen.
I think that pressure will be enough to force Vince to do something he used to do by nature. Put the belt on the most popular muscle guy he has and push him unrelentingly to the moon.
So buy. But I recognize the risk factor here. I just think Braun's biggest moments are ahead of him.
I'm going to tentatively Buy. I don't think they would bring Braun back the way they did if he wasn't going to get some kind of push. Also, not putting him in the KOTR tourney makes him seems like he's bigger than the event. I'm cautiously optimistic that he'll be featured in a significant way when Smackdown moves to Fox and the brand split is more defined again.
Buy.
They're biding their time with Braun, because he's going to wind up on Smackdown! when they debut on Fox. From there, he'll get a massive and renewed push as either a killer babyface or Smackdown!'s newest monster heel.
Buy now while its low, and sell high right before Heel Strowman eats Kofi Kingston like a giant dog treat and takes his Smackdown! World Title.
I might as well tally these up:
- Buy: 3
- Sell: 1
- Push: 1
Overall, people seem optimistic about The Man with the Monster Hands. Moving on to our next stock, I think it's time we brought the Women to the table.
Sasha Banks
After her return, Sasha Banks's stock seems to have risen. She's hot right now, and as we all know, the hottest fire is blue fire. But how soon before she cools off? We've seen this before. She was involved in one of the most intense feuds in recent memory with Charlotte, but afterwards just floated around for a long time without doing anything of significance until she won the Tag titles with Bayley earlier this year. Is this the beginning of Sasha taking her spot as one of the top heels in the division, or only a temporary push before she ends up in limbo again?
Buy, Sell, or Push?
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