Kawada got in as a singles so until Dave changed the rules this year the Holy Demon Army was ineligible
Kawada got in as a singles so until Dave changed the rules this year the Holy Demon Army was ineligible
The fact Dave Meltzer said that pre-2002 return Shawn Michaels wasn't a Hall of Famer is still mind blowing to me. This is the type of opinion that make many wrestlers and people in the business, as well as fans, question why we put so much stock in his opinion. Who honestly gives a shit about his Hall of Fame when he doesn't even consider Kurt Angle a 5 star wrestler or Shawn Michaels' work in the 80's and 90's enough to warrant a spot? But he'll be the first to criticize the WWE for putting in someone.
Except the first class this is not by fiat but voted on by hundreds of people. And there is an argument based on his lack of drawing power and his behavior that Shawn was not a hall of famer until his second main event run.Originally Posted by Nash Diesel
Oh yeah I'm aware how the voting works I'm specifically talking about Dave Meltzer's opinion. It's still his Hall of Fame.
Without going too in depth I'll say this about HBK. He was one of the top draws during a time where pro wrestling in the US was at a low point. His behavior being a factor is irrelevant.
I'd think Shawn Michaels pre-2002 had more drawing power than post-2002 Shawn Michaels.
Very much the opposite
As much as I personally prefer Shawn on his comeback and technical skill and being less of an ass, as far as drawing power and heat goes, I would technically agree that Shawn maybe put more butts in the seats[/Schiavone] when he was an arsehole than when he was born again.
He was a pain in the ass and heard conflicting stories if Taker really was gonna put the gloves on him if he refused to put Austin over. Think he would’ve done either way and that might’ve been blown out of proportion a bit by net rumours but objectively speaking, think Shawn put more butts in the seats when he was an arsehole and WWF/E were fighting back with Austin as strange as that may sound. Never mind the heat from the Screwjob.
https://www.f4wonline.com/news/new-j...ed-through-wwe
So since some people weren't sure Dave Meltzer confirmed that Sasha Banks being booked for New Japan had nothing to do with WWE
Really?
He also created his typical safety net by saying that everything could change lol. That way when she shows up at WK, and then wins the Rumble he'll be able to walk it back like he wasn't talking shit.
In his first run Shawn was an ok arena draw. He was better than Diesel, Taker or Yokozuna, but behind Bret to compare guys in that time period. His biggest claim on that run is that MSG house shows got strong again while he was on top. The biggest building, they ever ran in that run was his hometown stadium and that was heavily papered. The gate was less than 500,000 which for a stadium show at that point isn't great.
This is a hard one to compare since he was less than full time, but WWE's arena business with Shawn as a pushed main event guy the second time around was much stronger.
He was a very soft PPV draw. His best PPV would be Wrestlemania 12 which is the second lowest buyrate for a Mania just ahead of 13. Bret and Shawn outdrew Wrestlemania 13 in Montreal in fact on PPV.
Just for one example the Michaels vs Hogan Summerslam did double the PPV of Wrestlemania 12, and he has several main events where the PPV are way higher than anything from 1995 -1997.
Finally he was the guy on top when Nitro shot by Raw in the TV ratings.
All those points are relevant, but simply put-How many guys who were WWF multi-time world champs prior to the Ruthless Aggression Era aren't Hall of Famers?
And if you're including attitude as a factor, there's a lot of folks beside HBK who would take a hit.
Just seems a weird line on HBK.
Yokozuna has never gotten in. Shawn got in before Undertaker or Bob Backlund. Big Show and Kane aren't in.
I can somewhat see the argument but then I think of 1997 into 1998 with DX.
By the time DX really starts Steve Austin is back on the road and at the point he's the obvious #1 guy.
Well now are we talking about the #1 guy because you said Shawn was a bigger draw post-2002 than he was pre-2002....Shawn was definitely not the #1 guy when he returned. I would still argue that Shawn was a bigger draw prior to his first retirement BUT I can see someone doing the numbers and connecting it to Shawn post-2002.
The reality is, when he retired the first time, he was one of if not the best wrestlers of all time. For anyone to dispute that are delusional, idc if he was a total dick backstage or not or how much he drew when barely anyone watched Hulk Hogan let alone HBK and Bret Hart.
Kane's in the hall of fame. Last year I think
Who the fuck is Shawn Michaels?
Yokozuna is a hall of famer too, 2012
We're talking about the Dave Meltzer creation not the WWE. The Wrestling Observer Newsletter HOF. It's not a bad HOF, it's actually pretty awesome when they give you a nice long bio about people. I just laugh at the idea that this fan of all fans, with a straight face said pre-2002 Shawn Michaels did not produce a HOF worthy career. Despite him being considered one of if not the best in the ring of all time by WM 14, this roid head thought naw HBK talked mad shit about me so fuck him.
Decent points, but I think we're conflating a few things.
post 2002 HBK got in before either of those guys.
Big Show, Kane, and Taker were still not at retirement moments when HBK had his retirement ceremony. So, I'm not sure the timing is as relevant.
Yoko is a decent point. Think he should get in at some point, but that's a concession
Let's say HBK never came back, but still got in. It's possible he gets in earlier, because he was inactive longer, and they want another headliner some year. Or it's possible that he takes an Ultimate Warrior like wait to make it in, because he left on bad terms. Timing in this hypothetical world is an unknown.
But if the best comp on getting in at all is yoko....he still had a longer run by the late 90s, had a more varied career, was more decorated in the WWE, sold more merch, and had a bigger fanbase. His return certainly moved him up the overall rankings. And I don't know how LONG it would have taken him had he not returned.
But I still see almost no argument that, given the overall HOF bar (including other people who got in with attitude issues) that pre-comeback HBK was not going to get in.
Last edited by Mazer; December 12th, 2022 at 3:45 PM. Reason: Looked up yoko
Fucking Sid. How did I forget Sid?
Shawn should've been in before Taker and Backlund. But I'm sure those 2 were being held back because they weren't draws in the 90's either.
Well I think Backlund was held back because the last year plus of his first title reign was some of the most boring wrestling of all time. Jimmy Snuka was really carrying the WWF then which explains why some crimes may have had to be covered up.
Reportedly Matt Riddle was written off TV last week because he’s failed two drug tests but has entered rehab.
https://rajah.com/node/matt-riddle-r...led-drug-tests
If true, I wish him all the best in his recovery.
Love Riddle, hope whatever is going on he gets through it. He's had a pretty rough year or so whether that's on him is irrelevant. The article said WWE doesn't test for marijuana anymore so whatever it is, get off the shit bro.
So Riddle tested positive for cocaine and MDMA. Rehab or get fired is where he was basically at so hopefully again, whatever is going on with this guy he figures it out. Why does it gotta be the weed guy though? Some old head is sitting there like "Yep that refer is a gateway drug look at Matt Riddle!"
Breaking news
The Great Sasuke has once again won the Great Space Battle. Earth is safe for another year.
I'm not a big fan of stupid wrestling but this shit is top tier fun. I saw one year they had a guy dressed up as Yoda doing the Force powers.
Shit. I hope he stays off that shit when he is done with rehab.
I don't shit about either drug but the only time I ever hear people taking that shit are partying. But cocaine and wrestling are like brothers.
Piecing together the reports from Meltzer, VOW, and SRS
Sasha Banks asked for Charlotte Flair money from WWE and they turned her down. Stardom in Japan balked at her original asking price, but parent company head Takaaki Kidani stepped in and offered her a per date deal with NJPW that was for more per shot than Chris Jericho was getting from NJPW which was reported at 100,000 per date. Jericho has said he made more than that though, but he might be working.
She has signed a contract with New Japan Pro Wrestling for limited dates each for over 6 figures a shot.
No one knows if she is doing anything with AEW.
Good, she's been a headache far too long. Let her experience outside-WWE and let's all start our clocks for how long it takes for her to 180 right back to WWE. If she doesn't buck up, the indies are going to eat her alive.
Plus, she's not as good as she thinks she is.
She won't do the indies. Her price tag will be more than most of them will be able to or willing to pay. Her options are New Japan and AEW. I am not sure Impact would pay her what she wants.
I'm a big fan but she's not the end all be all for WWE or the women's division or women's wrestling for that matter. She's definitely part of the evolution in WWE when it comes to how women are showcased. It was a big deal last year for her and Bianca to headline Mania idc if Mania is 1 or 2 nights, still headlined and it sold out.
The reality is that the wheels were in motion with AJ Lee, Paige, Emma, Natalya, and people like Sasha were fortunate enough to be there at the right time. I do think that the booking showed that people could thrive, Naomi IMO was the best part of Team B.A.D. The women's division hasn't crumbled without her and she's been so in and out with injuries, personal issues, etc over the last 3-4 years.
The thing is, if you're a fan of hers you have to give her a chance in what she does outside of WWE. Whether that's a few lines on Mando or a couple matches in AEW, NJPW, wherever, gotta see what she can bring to the table without the WWE backing her. Everything that got her over was created within the walls of WWE. What she was prior to NXT was a generic kid and she's been able to evolve and thrive under the tutelage of many great minds. I think she's retained enough of that to continue being a bright spot in the business regardless of how all this shit went down.
It's a case where both sides, WWE and Sasha, are fair to have their opinion. I can see an argument where WWE just doesn't think the situation is worth the potential headaches along the way.
So the latest news with Riddle is that he's simply taking time off to deal with his divorce...?
I mean here's where I feel dumb about the whole situation. WWE always announces wellness violations. There was no mention at all. Riddle is not someone who is so protected they wouldn't release it or they would've never put Roman on blast like they did over ADD meds.
So why wouldn't we have thought, hey, WWE hasn't released any statement by now so what the fuck bro?
Re other thread. See what you mean now and hopefully Riddle can get over this.
That withstanding his booking lately has still been very odd. Randy’s injury not ideal obviously but seemingly instead of capitalising on the heat for him being taken out, they’ve leaned even more into him being comedy with this bongos Elias shit.
If Orton can get over this properly, he can either turn heel on him for being a joke or maybe even better, when Orton comes back, Riddle is the one to turn possibly for lulling Orton into a false sense of security.
Definitely multiple avenues possible here depending on Orton’s health.
Yeah his booking has been odd. He beats Seth clean, wins the feud, but the next move is some Vince shit with Elias? I want to read into it more, but we have to remember that the WWE thought after Kevin Owens main evented Mania against Stone Cold he should work with Elias/Ezekial. The WWE are higher on Elias than I think some of us want to admit. But for me it just feels like how do you go from Seth Rollins to a comedy tag team with Elias? I get wanting to help Elias and maybe Orton's back situation was a factor as well so who knows.
Maybe they wanted to do more with him but knew he'd need time away to deal with his personal shit so they put him in something that didn't require as much investment and could have reasons to write him off TV if needed.
Like a lot of us, family can be a lot to deal with at the holidays. If he needed to get his head straightened out, I am glad he's getting the time he needs. I can only imagine how it would have gone down when Vince was the man in charge.
Riddle - Hey, Boss Bro, I kinda need to deal with some personal shit and was wondering if I can get time off.
Vince - Time off? Hey pal, what's broken? Is it those scrawny ribs of yours? We can tape them up and you'll be fine.
Riddle - It's my head, bro. I'm having a tough time dealing with the divorce.
Vince - Get your head outta your ass and suck it up. Whaddya need, you want a Friday night off or something? Maybe we can getcha a Friday off when we have the 2 afternoon and night shows on both Sat and Sundays - that's only 7 weeks away. How's that?
Riddle - Well, bro, I think I probably need a month and a half.
Vince - I'm not letting you outta your contract, but If you come back you'll be jobbing to Tozawa
Reading that in Riddle’s voice makes this better. Plus…
Cross-thread zoom…
Riddle and Tozawa team….Brozawa.
@mth will leave it up to you if you want to move this exchange to there.
Holy shit they need to make Bro-zawa a real thing!
You must spread reputation before giving it to mth again.
I would seriously mark out for a Brozawa reign. I’d forgive his lack of singles push for this.
@3puppies I’ll give you 50p in the profits and waiving the trademark if you write a letter to WWE telling them to make Brozawa a thing.
Dear WWE writing staff -
I am a longtime devoted fan of your product, and wanted to thank you for years of enjoyment. I am writing to share an idea with your writing team.
As you know, Matt Riddle, one of your contracted performers, has a unique personality and is talented both in the ring and on the mic. While he is currently sidelined due to the heinous unprovoked attack by Solo Sikoa, like many others, I am looking forward to his return. However, I was not that enamored by the tagging of him and Elias. Instead I would like to suggest that when Riddle returns, he is welcomed by another underrated performer, Tozawa.
Please make Brozawa a thing.
Respectfully submitted,
3puppies
I am not normally one to speak for @mth but I can guess he also gives approval. Send it in…and maybe include a coupon.
To be fair I should get my special counsel @Mazer to proofread this but he will probably be fine with it as well.
*stamps his approval*
Fucking shit.
We could have snuck that in, and sold to wwe later
3pups would have gone for a percentage.
Well Mandy Rose made more money in a few days than she did all year in wwe. I'm not going to be disappointed if half the wwe female roster follows suit.
Half the female population are following suit. That 18 year old girl Bhad Bhabi made 70 million in one year off OnlyFans. She turned 18 and broke the record within hours. Weirdos are everywhere and seriously Mandy Rose's content isn't anything special. These dorks are spending $40 a month to see what?
I've rubbed one out to her since Tough Enough and spent zero dimes.
Lacey Evens causing a stir on twitter and instagram. Posting about processed foods and stuff cause autism and ADHD. She has since deleted the video on instagram and tweet on twitter but geez.
What the fuck? She gone loopy?
Not sure how unique "sex pest" is on that roster.
Gone?
I feel like this is a pretty logical follow up to everything she's presented up to now.
Yeah pretty much
There are people asking for her release and on one hand I get it because she's actually done worse than this people just don't retain it. Sometimes I'm just sick of hearing about people's opinions on really anything including my own opinions at times. But I think that when you start claiming that because something wasn't mainstream when you were a kid it somehow didn't exist.
I just turned 41. She's younger than I am. I've known about autism, ADD, etc. since I was in elementary school back in the 80's. You have a responsibility to keep certain ignorance to yourself imo, has nothing to do with celebrity status BUT that status can bite you in the ass because of the influence you have over certain people.
On the other hand.....Kind of a stupid reason to fire someone lol. I mean I thought it was stupid firing that kid for taking a picture with a Hitler 'stache but obviously Hitler and denying autism are going to be met with different reactions. It's like firing someone who is an anti-vaxxer and they think vaccines lead to autism, they put that out there on social media or wherever...but firing them over it? It's disheartening and there's nothing behind her post in terms of science....I mean we have people who want to fire Ronda Rousey because she took a DDT awkward. Get the fuck outta here.
What else has she said/done? I've only heard that she's been homophobic in the past.
That's what I was thinking of. I do remember when people thought her kid was in blackface but it was actually a werewolf costume.
Patrick Clark arrest video, I'm never referring him to Velveteen Dream again. Yikes, what a fall from grace.
A case of where the guy is playing the character who is actually himself, probably.
It's a shame because as a fan I went to bat for him at times but then as time went on it was like alright....the more you hear about just how he is in general, I think Triple H said he had a lot of growing up to do, this is another nail in the coffin.
I mean he's young enough to where 4-5 years from now if he's going down a positive path and reflects back on this time in his life as a wake up call, you never know. People have bounced back from worse in bigger industries. Wrestling is a pretty forgiving one but Dream might be in that Joey Ryan class.
I figured I'd post this news in here since it would probably get lost or no attention in the Impact thread but per Mike Tenay, our boy Don West has passed away. RIP to a guy who I think looking back was better than we thought in his role at the booth. Only 59 due to lymphoma
RIP Don West. Absolute legend.
Damn. I always liked him, gave some energy to the booth.
Iconic
Damn shame about Don West. Always loved his enthusiasm in the booth. And such a recognizable voice.
RIP West
Guessing Kylie Rae hasn't signed with WWE. She is booked for a show here in St. Louis on the 7th. If she was signed they probably would have canceled the match and just had her appear since that is what they did with Kross and Lumis who had dates booked. Maybe she will still sign just not a done deal yet.
AJ Styles confirms a broken ankle. Damn.
https://twitter.com/ajstylesorg/stat...819855361?s=46
Not sure where to post this, but the Muta vs Shinsuke match was way better than I was expecting. If you are a WWE Shinsuke fan I would say to check it out.
I will have a look but if anyone have a handy and easy link, please let me know and will watch tomorrow.
How do you feel about Muta's aftershow comments towards shin? Surely he knows better to call him a queen and the f-slur.
Last edited by mth; January 2nd, 2023 at 10:36 AM.
It's hard to make out what he's saying but I really don't think he said the f slur.
I thought he called Shinsuke queer. Which the finish of the match is Shinsuke kissing Muta to steal the Green Mist and blow it in Muta's face. If Muta was a homophobe I don't think he is agreeing to a finish where he makes out with Shinsuke Nakamura. I think it's a case of a 60 year old man speaking in his second language which is a language he learned in the deep South in the 1980s. So I think that's where the problem lies.
Last edited by Defrost; January 2nd, 2023 at 1:16 AM.
https://www.bodyslam.net/2023/01/01/...h-dream-match/
Both parts. I think it was a great spot. The mist stealing that is.
nowhere in that sound bite does anything remotely sound like the f slur.
it almost sounds like he says 'he's queer... poly, maybe.' regardless, it's the stupidest shit in the world to try and make a big deal out of.
It's Virms. A total classless piece of shit.
Last edited by mth; January 2nd, 2023 at 10:37 AM.
Do greatly appreciate the link to the match which I will watch later today.
Last edited by Badger; January 2nd, 2023 at 9:44 AM.
I'm just going by what's being reported. As we all know the world we live in today it no longer matters about what you actually say vs what people want to hear. The fact people heard him say queen and then mumble something that could be interpreted as a guy slur is all people will read before they go on the attack.
and moron. don't forget that.
Money in the Bank is headed to London, England, at the 02 Arena on 1st July.
Weak. I was hoping the rumor that Triple H was killing the stand alone and bringing the match back to Mania was true. Glad London is getting a ppv though.
MITB is one gimmick match where it works being it's own show, especially since there are two MITB matches now. It's not like HIAC where the stip needs to feel fitting for the feud.
Last edited by mth; January 5th, 2023 at 11:24 AM.
I'm not completely disagreeing when comparing it to HIAC for example or even TLC. MITB is kind of like Royal Rumble where you don't need a feud to have the gimmick match make sense. I just preferred the match to be a WrestleMania attraction as opposed to it's own ppv.
I prefer a ladder match for the IC/US title at Mania.
Without a single match announced WrestleMania 39 broke the WWE gate record sitting at around $18 million. That's insanity. Previous record 17.4 million for WM 32.
Don’t know if this has been mentioned earlier but update on Seth injury. Looks like he’s not going to miss any TV time. Excellent news!
https://www.sportskeeda.com/amp/wwe/...e-royal-rumble
Both fantastic news!
I read that Seth injury was a work...
So Mandy Rose said that she would be willing to have a conversation with WWE about taking down her fansite and making a return. She also said that supposedly they didn't tell her why she was fired or that it wasn't related to the website. IDK if I believe that, I mean they just said fuck it see ya later top female on our NXT roster lol. The door is open to return so that's awesome.
I would imagine sites like that have a cap to them in terms of making money. Especially considering it just takes one subscriber to share the pics online. I would think people would eventually quit subscribing for that reason alone.
You would think that but it doesn't really happen. These sites are pretty good at scrubbing the internet.
To my knowledge there is no cap on how much you can make because they're not getting paid by the website they're being paid by you and I. Bhad Bhabie made $70 million off her OnlyFans. I think it was 40 in subs and 30 in tips on her pics/videos. Zero nudes. The girl is like 19 which is very strange but whatever lol. I'm just saying there isn't a cap because the website only takes a % so they'll gladly keep these people around.
I didn't mean cap per what the website I just meant cap in interest of the product being put out. It's probably just me but say Salma hayek had one of these types of sites and she had never been nude in her life. Would I be interested. Of course, but there's only so many ways to see a titty before I'd be like...is this really worth x amount of money? My answer is no, especially knowing it's going to be put out elsewhere but I'd support the cause I guess lol. In the case where there is no nudity and they build a tease I can see people hanging around for longer in the hopes that it does happen. Then again, how much money are you going to waste? It's almost like a digital version of a strip club. I learned a lesson 20 years ago what a waste of money that was.
Ahhh ok yeah I get what you're saying about interest and you're looking at probably a few years depending on when she started. I think the pandemic made these type of sites really blow up especially OnlyFans. The weird part is, like I was saying is that these sites do a good job of scrubbing the internet of premium content. My brother used to work for Youtube so I know how militant certain sites can be. The thing is, there are very few people who are going to go above and beyond to look for this stuff.
It's really no different than asking why do people still buy music even on iTunes when someone will have it for free somewhere. I'd rather just pay for it.
GOOD NEWS EVERYONE!
Sami is well enough to pose with his new merch. Love the subtle tease to link him back with KO
“So her breasts were like THIS big!”GOOD NEWS EVERYONE!
Sami is well enough to pose with his new merch. Love the subtle tease to link him back with KO
Jerry Lawler rushed to the hospital. A stroke it seems. Hope he's ok
Thoughts and prayers with Lawler and his family.
Hoping for the best possible outcome.
Yeah hoping for the best.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
