It's as simple as this. I'll throw out a storyline, character, match, etc. that I want you guys to tell me if it was a Hit or a Miss. And WCW had plenty of both in the short span they were on this Earth with us. I'll start it off with something easy that can take us into a nice discussion with only needing 3 letters:
It was a hit. I vote it as the best faction of all time. the only issue with the storyline was that it didn't have a proper blowoff or conclusion.
Hit. The problem was no end to this. Of course, the WWE is on year 21 of the McMahons, so...
I agree that it was a hit. I think it's a concept that actually would be cool to see brought back and maybe that would somehow lead to a true conclusion of the nWo angle. Bischoff or Kevin Nash sitting in the shadows all this time thinking of a way to bring back the most dominant faction in the history of wrestling. Anyway lol...
The nWo was such a cultural phenomenon as well when you think about it. It transcended wrestling and I think that's because it was showing the world that not everything is black and white (no pun intended).
Sure, it was a hit. But the hits did not keep coming forever
Very true. But nothing lasts forever. Think of it like this....Stone Cold, biggest name of all time, yet the WWF did their best year ever ratings wise in 2000 when he wasn't even there. Nobody is going to say "well he was a hit but he didn't deliver forever" It happens.Originally Posted by 3puppies
I will say this though, when they missed with the nWo, they fucking MISSED lol.
Hit. They were still making bank off the NWO in early 1999 when Hogan and Flair drew that big buyrate for SuperBrawl. One of the most successful storylines in wrestling history.
Now if they had actually done a Wolfpac vs. NWO Hollywood feud properly it would have been even bigger and lasted even longer.
NWO Civil War had some much money and potential while Goldberg/Sting at Starcadde could have their Hogan/Warrior instead we got finger poke of doom and bankruptcy two years later.
Hit in the earliest stages of its inception. Once it got away from the concept that ex WWE wrestlers were invading WCW to destroy it from within then it became just another faction.
Day 2 I present to you the man who alongside Terry Funk and Abdullah the Butcher introduced me to what hardcore wrestling was all about:
Hit or Miss?
I'm going to say Hit. He was one of the guys who imo were instrumental in introducing the hardcore wrestling style for one. For the most part was in the upper card/main event picture and he wasn't even 30 when he left for ECW so one can only imagine where he would have taken that character. Sadly it might have been to the Dungeon of Doom BUT he would have no doubt worked with Hulk Hogan and Macho Man. Imagine those feuds. Amazing.
It's like a hit song on the radio. A hit but overexposure ruined it.
Oh this was directed towards NWO not Cactus Jack.
Last edited by Badger; June 28th, 2018 at 2:15 AM.
Hit overall. The segments at the end of his run with WCW are legendarily horrible.
HIT
There were low points to be sure but overall I think you have to consider Cactus Jack a hit in WCW. Historically it's his most overlooked tenure of his career. People talk about his amazing promos in ECW and obviously his star was elevated to all time great in the WWE. His time in WCW though, it gets generally overlooked and for the most part that's really unfortunate.
Check out Sting vs Cactus in 92. I had to look up the ppv even though I watched it recently. It's the Beach Blast one. Holy shit is that match better than anyone could have imagined it would be. And then the Vader program! Talk about some all time great shit.
Fuck if just for those two feuds he deserves a huge pat on the back for his WCW run.
Both those feuds were great. I think had they been handled properly Cactus could have been huge in WCW.
Playing catchup:
1. NWO was a Hit that turned into a Miss. Does 83 weeks of ratings wins based on one hot angle make up for several years of bad booking? Does it make up for the NWO Black and Silver/NWO 2000 with Jeff Jarrett as a "top guy"? Does it make up for the fact that the NWO was built up so damn strong, only to have no payoff? Meh. Not really. The NWO is one of those ideas that's cooler on paper than it wound up being in reality. How many great, exciting Nitro Main Events were ruined by yet another boring NWO beat down? How many terrible Hulk Hogan matches did we have to sit through when Hogan was sitting pretty as "NWO" World Champion? Meh.
Cactus Jack was a Miss. Two decent feuds, a great match with Sting, and a good run with Vader couldn't force WCW's hand into doing something with him. For as much as he should have been a Hit, WCW were determined to make Cactus a Miss. And they did. They could've had a mad dog killer heel to go after the likes of Sting and Ron Simmons, instead they had him crack his head on cement, get lost in Cleveland, get amnesia, and eventually feud with Yoshi Kwann of all people. Fuck me. That's wasted opportunity all over the shop.
Can I propose a Hit or Miss, @Nash Diesel?
Ron Simmons' World Title Run: Hit or Miss?
Hey Speaking of Cactus Jack from that era...
Here is a photo of him doing Howard Stern in 1991. According to the source he was the first wrestler to do Stern.
Damn, I forgot how he looked back then. Compared to his later years, it makes me wonder where's the other half of him?
Then again, compared to now, I was 100 lbs thinner myself in 1991
You must have been reading my mind as this was going to be the one I was going to post next so here we go...
Ron Simmons' World Title Run: Hit or Miss?
By no fault of his own imo this was a miss. He just didn't have the big ppv matches that the other World champions had during that era. I mean, you had him wrestle The Barbarian at one of the marquee ppvs Halloween Havoc instead of the guy he's feuding with, Cactus Jack. Maybe Jack was injured? Idk. Then you have Starrcade, scheduled to face top heel Rick Rude and instead Rude gets hurt and Dr. Death steps in. Not a bad match but there was nothing to the reason behind the match.
I think had he been able to have bigger matches when it mattered and not the random house show against a top guy like Vader or Rude where nobody sees it, the World title run of Ron Simmons would have been more than the 1st black wrestler in WCW to be HW champ.
You're going downhill fast here.
whats next?
Shockmaster; hit or miss?
You do realize we have a lot of things we can cover in this thread for WCW, right? If this is the level of participation we can expect from you I suggest you go back to your den of negativity.
Miss: For the reasons mentioned. There were no memorable events afterward. It felt like there was no commitment, and everything after the initial win was just a thing that happened that week.
To me it felt like they did it as maybe a way to show Watts wasn't a racist? Kind of like when Sullivan put the belt on Benoit when everyone thought he was out to get Benoit. Next thing you know KS can hang his hat on "Well I was the one who booked him to win the World title why would I have any beef with him if I did that?" Just like Watts could say, how can I be a racist if I booked the black guy to win? Well when treat him like a placeholder, like CM Punk and his lame 460+ day reign where he main evented 4 out of the 19 ppvs he was on....It doesn't really do much for anyone.
This was also around the time where they had like 90 belts in WCW. None of them really mattered in 1992 except maybe the TV title lol.
Yeah it could have been/ should have been huge but instead the only big moment was Ron winning the title. Then it seems like it just fizzled farted out.
Kayfabe was alive and well at the time. Most people didn't know what the term "book" meant in rasslin terms so I can say with certainty it wasn't done to convince the public that he wasn't racist. People weren't as hyper-sensitive and quick to rage back then either so even without the kayfabe I doubt anyone would have booked a black champ to appease anyone.
I'm meaning moreso the people behind the scenes, the talent, the suits, etc. Not the average wrestling fan. The average wrestling fan in 1992 probably thought why is Ron Simmons, the guy from Doom, winning the World title? But people backstage and with Watt's reputation, he might have felt he needed to put the belt on Ron to show he wouldn't hold back anyone of color.
I mean, it's no different than Russo putting the belt on Booker T. They get with criticism and I think a lawsuit even about racial oppression so to speak and boom, Booker T wins the World title a few weeks, maybe even a few days later. Just so WCW could go "See we're not racist we just booked a black man as the World champ fuck your gripes" when in reality they had no intention on putting the belt on Booker T.
Cactus Jack was a hit. They didn't maximize his potential but he still had some big pay-per-view matches against Sting and Vader.
Ron Simmons as champion was a miss. Just wasn't ready for the belt. Had a great look but was a boring character at that point and the crowd wasn't into him. If they had waited longer they could have had a major star on their hands, Ron Simmons became a pretty great promo by the time he got to the WWF.
Damn!
Today's Hit or Miss is, imo, one of the greatest of all time. Back when he was Y instead of IE, Mr. EDDY GUERRERO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm going to say he was a hit. From the jump I was a fan. That US title feud with DDP put them both on the map in a big way.
Yes, he went on to be a quasi-main eventer in the WWE so one could say maybe he was a miss because WCW never put him that high up the card but I will say that personally I don't think he would have been ready for that top tier spot. Even in the WWE, it took them until the last 2 years of his life when he was in his late 30's before putting him in the top tier of Smackdown.
But in WCW, just classic matches with so many people. Dean Malenko, Benoit, DDP, my favorites probably being his matches against Rey and Jericho for the CW title. It would have been cool to see him pushed harder but with injuries, drug issues, then the move to WWE he just never really was able to get to that level with such a stacked upper/main event scene.
Yes he was a hit along with the WCW cruiserweight division in general. If there was any miss, it was WCW not taking full advantage of their cruiserweight goldmine and letting their dissatisfied talents go to ECW and WWE because they were not made a priority.
I feel like it was a hit.
I know the narrative is always how misused he was in WCW and I'm not saying he wasn't at times. But that's also when he first showed up on the radar for most of us.
His time in WCW was very comparable to Jericho. Sure he may not have been highlighted as much as he was in WWE but WCW still turned him into a household name.
WCW Jericho was the greatest. When was the last time you saw a heel go all the way to Washington just to overturn a cruiserweight title decision? They should do that shit on 205 Live.
And of course Ralphus!
Hit. Shithead "Cheat 2 Win" Eddie was absolutely fantastic. His match against Mysterio from Halloween Havoc 1997 is one of my favorites ever. Like with a lot of WCW things there's a gap between what he did and what he could have done, but his sobriety was a big problem. If he had been clean he could have gone a lot further.
Oh word on that match with Mysterio. I had never seen it and then someone (might have been you) mentioned it on here so I watched the whole show and that match was INSANE.
Definitely a hit! Eddie was one of the WCW guys who entertained me most. His theme wasn't shabby either.
Pretty much everything about that (amazing) run was conceived by Jericho himself, anybody getting that kind of creative freedom in 2018 WWE is slim and none. unfortunately.
Eddie was definitely a hit! and let's not forget him leading the LWO
It was a massive hit!! However for me when I look back at it had way too many members by the end whom didn't really fit the faction or have actual meaning to it if you catch my drift.
I don't think The Giant was all that great tbh as at the time I loved the rivalry of Kevin Nash and himself thought it was a great clash of the big men! Then the Wolfpack came along and Sting for me being in a group was a little nonsensical and just preferred him on his own.
So we move on and Bret Hart joins the faction now and it just didn't seem to work we didn't get the chemistry from Bishoff and Hogan with him!!
I also found that Savage became a bit sorta all over the place at times, he should have always been against the NWO in my eyes.
Can I say when watching it back I loved DDP a little underated in WCW maybe for what he brought to the table, maybe his WWE run tainted that a little, but I was always a huge fan and his NWO feuds with Hogan especially were always good fun, can add Savage to that too even though I would've preferred Savage out of that faction, maybe throughout that rivalry Savage wasn't much of an NWO member I can't remember now because it was so all over the place, like they would change who was on what side so much I haven't a clue!! Suppose it was quite exciting in that aspect though.
Let's go with something a bit tougher. Try this one on for size:
Definite miss in my book. WCW could have done so much more with him, but they did not take full advantage. He had some memorable moments like his matches with Benoit and outsmarting Goldberg with the steel plate, but they overall misuses him so badly.
Last edited by Badger; June 30th, 2018 at 8:43 PM.
Oh big fat miss.
"WCW won't have any idea what to do with a Bret Hart"
- Vince McMoneybags
The most right Vince has ever been.
Total miss. Bret's WCW run sucked. They had no idea what to do with him and he never seemed motivated. Putting him in the NWO really didn't make any sense, then he had an injury, by the time he was ready to come back Owen died and he took more time off to deal with that, and then Russo makes him the champion and he has his concussion and he's done.
In his entire run I can only think of two worthwhile things he did: the match against Benoit in Kansas City and the segment with Goldberg in Toronto with the metal plate.
Complete miss, but it was almost as much Bret's fault as WCW's/Bischoff's. Bret was just an empty shell in WCW, "The Hitman" died in, and never left Montreal.
How about the Robocop angle?
A hit was what they did with the Cruiserweight division.
Bret was for sure a miss. Who's to blame? Probably both. Bret's attitude and mindframe probably wasn't where it should be. He was like the team captain who was leaving for the rival team and everyone the night before beat him with soap inside socks, on a worldwide platform.
Then you had WCW....who thought instead of being original and capitalizing on Bret being the uncrowned WWF champion, they remake the Screwjob that happened a month prior and ruined the end of a great storyline (Sting v. Hogan/nWo). If they want to steal a WWF storyline, they could have done something similar with Bret like WWF did with Ric Flair, have Bret say he's the REAL World champion, not that pretty boy dancing in the other company, and definitely not Hogan or Sting.
But then they did the worst thing possibly...had him join the NWO. As Hogan's right hand man of all things. SUCKED. US champion Bret Hart was lame. I was just watching, last night in fact, the Nitro before World War 3 1998 and a big program thrown together was DDP v. Bret Hart for the US championship. In the infamous words of DDP....Whatever.
I would have Bret come in, saying he's the real champ, he's better than anyone on the roster. But actually have him be better than anyone on the roster. Have him win matches left and right. This great wrestler. Put him in dream matches. And then have him face a WCW homegrown talent like Sting, DDP, or whoever you want for the WCW championship and have Bret Hart come up short.
The tricky part for me fantasy booking that era is when Goldberg comes into play. WCW was still going strong in early '98 so I think they could have built Goldberg up a little more and had him win the belt at a big ppv like Halloween Havoc after a super long run with the US title. Then you have time to get the belt on Hogan and build up a real feud with him and Goldberg.
Quick Recap for those who read from bottom to top:
Hits:
nWo
Cactus Jack
Eddy Guerrero
Misses:
Ron Simmons World Championship Reign
Bret Hart
*Keep in mind if you want to throw up a Hit or Miss, try to include a picture as I just noticed while typing this Romford Pele offered up Robocop*
Thanks to our boy Romford for Monday's entry:
Robocop Angle in WCW: Hit or Miss?
A cross-promotional angle tying in to Robocop 2 that was set to be released (my favorite Robocop movie btw). WCW were the kings of weird crossovers like Chucky from Child's Play or KISS. This was probably the ultimate of weird crossovers, better suited for a short run comic book series than live wrestling.
I'm going to say miss simply because I didn't even know about this shit until that website WrestleCrap.com told me about it shit 20 years ago almost?
Really dumb.
Although somehow no one really seems to give the WWF shit for Zeus, which was the same concept.
Because they weren't even remotely the same situation. Outside of it being 2 actors getting involved in wrestling I don't see the connection. Everything from the movie affiliation to the storyline execution to actual matches, completely different.
If Robocop 2 was about Robocop battling a pro wrestling or helping a pro wrestler and there were matches on ppv and build ups for damn near a year, sure. But we didn't get any of that out of the usage of Robocop in WCW. TBH, the WWF/E are probably the best wrestling promotion in the history of the business when it comes to handling "celebrities". Any promotion that can take a fuck boy like Kevin Federline and showcase him in a way that makes him come across like a natural deserves massive props.
The Robocop angle is hard to categorize as a Hit or a Miss. Its Wrestlecrap, for sure.
But damn, was it ever fun.
I'll give it a rating of a mild (very mild) Hit. It accomplished what it needed, and the 4-Horseman were still run off by Sting, Giant Gonzalez, and Robocop. Its not like four real wrestlers were run off by one guy in a mobility limiting suit and no one else. It was credible they'd eat shit against Sting and El Gonzales.
WCW was all about that kind of random ass shit.
It felt like, at any time, Falcor from the Neverending Story might show up.
Or Tito Jackson.
Or Chester Cheetah.
Or Gizmo from the Gremlins.
...
Or Dennis Rodman...or The Insane Clown Posse...or David Arquette...or Sub Zero...
Or Chucky the doll from Child's Play...
Today's "hit or miss" is none other than:
Raven in WCW, hit or miss?
I'm going to say HIT. Could they have done more with him? Definitely. But he was easily one of the top upper card guys who always seemed to have a really good program with a variety of talent such as Benoit, DDP, Kanyon/Mortis. It wasn't better than his ECW run (the 1st time, the 2nd time sucked) but it was one of the few times where I can honestly remember an ECW guy getting love in a WCW environment and not made to be total shit from the jump.
Raven in WCW was a hit for me! I even enjoyed the "Flock" for what it was at the time... then Goldberg ran through them all lol.
I thought Raven did quite well for himself in WCW. Obviously he didn't get to main event status the way he had in ECW but he was still used frequently and the Flock angle was one of the better thought out storylines in WCW at that time. He was focused on and got plenty of mic time. And that's what Raven was. A promo.
There are a lot of fans who don't remember much if anything he did in WWE and many more that never actually saw what he did in ECW. So WCW Raven is probably what most wrestling fans think of when they think of Raven.
Hit.
Last edited by Rancid_Planet; July 3rd, 2018 at 9:44 PM.
Hit. Raven was amazing everywhere he went. WWE just fucked him up, because they had no idea how to book him in their 2000 talent raid. Also Cactus Jake was a hit while Ron Simmons was a mild hit. I say hit, because they still put the belt on him when they really didn't have to. Honestly, WCW had no idea how to book babyfaces mainly due to Flair sometimes helping with the booking.
Raven in WCW was a Hit. Coming in, getting to play his ECW character, but in a major venue? Awesome. Raven gave Goldberg his first good match, had great matches with Diamond Dallas Page and Chris Benoit, and was well protected from the guys above him. He was perfectly suited for his position in the company and was utilized well. His match with Saturn at Fall Brawl 1998 was the lone highlight of that show.
Even with the revelation that Raven was a rich mama's boy bitch, we still got to see Raven team with Saturn against Benoit and Malenko and Rey Mysterio and Billy Kidman in WCW's version of the "Smackdown! Six" afterwards.
Raven's partnership with Vampiro and the Insane Clown Posse (*vomits*) as "The Deadpool", even had some potential before Raven bailed.
I dug Raven's WCW run. Good stuff.
Here's One:
Ignoring The Aftermath and the "Finger Poke of Doom", was Goldberg vs. Kevin Nash at Starrcade 1998 a Hit or a Miss?
The No holds Barred/Zeus angle was pretty awesome if you watched it at the time, without 2018 glasses on like 13 year old OD did. Sure, Zeus was a so-so actor and a shitty worker but when you watched in 1989 he seemed like the most badass thing ever. I think the WWF really made chicken salad out of chicken shit (or dookie..) with Zeus.
Raven was a hit!
Still a miss. Overbooked mess with multiple run-ins and a taser. Not a deserving way to end Goldberg's streak.
Miss on Nash/Goldberg. I'm not who should have ended the Streak, but it shouldn't have been someone who was as useless as Kevin Nash and especially not the dumb ass way it ended. The Finger Poke of Doom has always covered up how shitty they, I mean Nash himself, booked that match.
I would've had DDP end the streak.
Goldberg v. Kevin Nash @ Starrcade 1998, hit or miss?
On one hand, nobody was more popular than Kevin Nash at this time, not even Goldberg. He was also one of the few guys who physically looked like they could derail the train. The match did enough to also protect Goldberg, because if he was going to lose he more than likely wasn't losing clean.
So for me, the match was really good and I say it was a HIT. The issue is that the stink of the fingerpoke of doom trails back to this match and both consciously and subconciously distorts people's opinions on it. Nash should have been given at least 3-4 months with the belt before dropping it back to Goldberg. Dude was a multi-time WCW champion and they booked each one like ass.
Today's Hit Or Miss in honor of our Canadian friends (I should have done this on Canada Day but didn't even think of it):
Lance Storm and Team Canada. I'm going to say this was a hit. Lance Storm's debut imo was awesome. Him collecting belts was the most interesting angle and character work WCW had done since fuck I don't know, the Wolfpac? It was original and fresh and it was done with a guy who could deliver. Then you factor in his squad made up of non-Canadians, shit I even liked Hacksaw Jim Duggan being in the mix.
It was shit......by that I mean Saskatchewan Hardcore International Title of course.
Seriously, hit. Lance was a hit everywhere except WWE. Having Austin bury him on the mic didn't help his cause. He's got criticism for working too "safe", but with the injury rush these days, better to be "safe" than sorry I suppose.
For me it just proved that WCW was the WRESTLING promotion. They might have been realistically more of a t.v. show than a wrestling promotion compared to the WWE, but look at guys like Dean Malenko, Lance Storm, guys who were very over in WCW based on what they did in the ring and then in WWF/E. Hell I remember even Lance's promos were pretty good in ECW and WCW. But again, the WWE were/are all about that character work. Or dudes always needing to be funny.It was shit......by that I mean Saskatchewan Hardcore International Title of course.
Seriously, hit. Lance was a hit everywhere except WWE. Having Austin bury him on the mic didn't help his cause. He's got criticism for working too "safe", but with the injury rush these days, better to be "safe" than sorry I suppose.
Even today where I feel wrestling is more important than it was 20 years ago, the ratings don't reflect that the masses want to see a wrestling-heavy product from this company
In the midcard and cruiserweight division, generally I'd say WCW did very very well in the wrestling aspect. Shame that did not translate well to the main event picture for the most part due to politicking and such.
I don't think politicking had anything to do with the quality of wrestling in the main event. I just don't think either of the big 2 in the US thrived in the 90's with great wrestlers in the main event from a technical standpoint. That's what made WCW so lethal. You didn't need to rely on Roddy Piper, Kevin Nash, and The Giant to have 5 star matches because Eddy and Benoit were doing that in the midcard. Then the big big draws of WCW like the nWo could do their thing and rely on the character work aspect.
No one was more popular than Kevin Nash in a WCW with Chris Benoit, Eddie Guerrero, Sting and DDP?! Fuck off with that noise.Goldberg v. Kevin Nash @ Starrcade 1998, hit or miss?
On one hand, nobody was more popular than Kevin Nash at this time, not even Goldberg. He was also one of the few guys who physically looked like they could derail the train. The match did enough to also protect Goldberg, because if he was going to lose he more than likely wasn't losing clean.
So for me, the match was really good and I say it was a HIT. The issue is that the stink of the fingerpoke of doom trails back to this match and both consciously and subconciously distorts people's opinions on it. Nash should have been given at least 3-4 months with the belt before dropping it back to Goldberg. Dude was a multi-time WCW champion and they booked each one like ass.
I think early 90s WCW was great. The nWo era still had great wrestling in the midcard. I was more meaning that the midcard did not have a chance to rrally break through for as how good as the nWo was, the feud with WCW got too one-sided and they pit themselves over too much when they were supposed to be heels. Their stable got too inflated and swallowed up a lot of guys to the point where Jericho and the Radicalz got fed up being held back and jumped ship. Too many DQ finishes and Nitro endings with the NW being left standing, They could not manage the right balance in the end. Vince and Austin managed it better getting one-ups on each other.
Do you honestly believe in 1998, or really any period they were together in the same company, that Chris Benoit or Eddie Guerrero were more over than Kevin Nash? Especially at this time lol.
DDP? Naw. Sting? MAYBE. Sting might have been the only guy more popular than Kevin Nash at this time. Go back and watch the match, he gets a bigger pop than Goldberg, the crowd just on the gif alone pops up huge for that Jacknife.
Let's be serious for once and not taint every thread with this kind of ridiculous nonsense from you.
Early 90's WCW main event didn't draw like mid-late 90's WCW though that's all I'm saying. It's why Shawn Michaels who is the GOAT but doesn't have the same name value as Hulk Hogan for example.
And I'll also that I think if WCW weren't so top heavy with draws that guys like Jericho and the Radicalz would have had a better chance but even in the WWE when they left they would have had a better chance.
I know the thread is titled WCW but for most of us that still includes the beloved NWA era as well so let's talk about someone who is a staple of the NWA/WCW golden era, Mr. Barry Windham.
I want people to understand that when I say Barry Windham was a miss that it's just a personal preference. So personally for me I did not care one bit about a lot of the guys who were lanky with cowboy boots and blonde hair which seemed like a dime a dozen in this company in the late 80's early 90's. But he was probably the best of them all.
I am not sure I agree with you on Barry Windham. He may have been better than most of the generic lanky blond cowboys with a leather vest, sometimes with chaps - but while he wasn't nearly as good as his father who did the same thing, he was much better than his brother Kendall. He suffered from high expectations being second (or third?) generation , but where I disagree with you is that I recall him being paired with Curt Hennig as the West Texas Rednecks, and Curt was much better both in the ring and on promos. Since Hennig also had the cowboy gimmick, I can't agree that Barry was the best of them all.
So in my vote, Curt = hit, while Barry would be a slight miss mostly due to the over use of the gimmick.
lol what the hell are you talking about?
For one, Curt Hennig was not part of this hit or miss topic so there's no voting for Curt being a hit or miss. I don't know maybe you never saw these guys wrestle prior to 1999-2000 when they were doing that crap gimmick (no pun intended) but I don't think anyone would say Curt Hennig was a lanky guy with cowboy boots in the same vein as Barry Windham, Dustin Rhodes, etc. Windham didn't even have a cowboy gimmick until that West Texas Rednecks. He just wore cowboy boots, it's like saying Dusty Rhodes had a cowboy gimmick.....
So what exactly are you disagreeing with me about him? Because like I said I know I'm in the minority because he was pretty popular I just didn't get into him.
I'd say Barry was a "miss", or more fittingly a case of missed potential. He was probably one of the best workers in the US around 1986-1987 and a perfect fit for the NWA/Mid-Atlantic/JCP area. Unfortunately I think he peaked too early around 25-27 years old and only went downhill from there. He put on quite a bit of weight and I'm pretty sure he had a very serious knee injury around 92-93. The Windham that returned versus Flair at Slamboree '93 was nothing like the Barry of "old", even though he was just 32 at the time he was pretty much washed-up. The Stalker/Blackjack Windham
run in the WWF and the West Texas Rednecks WCW run wasn't the stuff of legends either.
I kind of liked the New Blackjacks myself but it felt old and very out-of-place in 1997 WWF. Hated the West Texas Rednecks aside from "Rap is Crap", and I still don't know what a Minnesota boy like Curt Hennig was even doing there twirling a cowboy hat..
Windham vs. Flair was one of the first NWA/JCP matches I ever saw (1987), so I have a little nostalgia for ol' Barry Windham.
DPS was more over than Nash. Diamond Cutter hand signs were everywhere. Beniot was seen as the legacy of the 4 Horsemen and Eddie had a MOTY in 97. Nash did nothing except start a new faction with people in it like Sting and Luger for no reason. The only foolishness is your man crush on broken down Big Kev.
@OD50 Just so you know I purposely did this Hit or Miss in hopes to lure you in as I know you're a big fan of that era.
Again I disagree that DDP was more over than Nash. I'm not saying DDP wasn't close to being up there as I feel he was in the top 5 (Nash, Goldberg, Sting, DDP, and Rey Misterio). But to say that Benoit or Eddy were anywhere near Kevin Nash's popularity and the reasons you gave.....
And to say that the Wolfpac was started for no reason? That right there makes no sense. The Wolfpac was started to counter what Hollywood Hogan was turning the nWo into. Nash had a different vision so he started his own version since technically the nWo was him and Scott who brought Hogan in. I'm hella realistic with Nash's downfalls, I'm not like Donald with his love of Strowman lol. But to seriously throw out Benoit and Eddy? Come on now.
#Clickbait
Scott Steiner should have ended Goldberg's streak.There was money, money, money in that feud but they fucked it up.
This was the main event WCW fans (me included) wanted in 1998, Hogan, Piper, Savage, Luger, Sting, Flair etc were really starting to show their age, Goldberg and Steiner on the other hand were two monsters in their primes. The fans are red hot for this but it never leads anywhere. They didn't have their proper feud until around Fall Brawl 2000, by then it was too late and the company was the shits.
Last edited by OD50; July 6th, 2018 at 3:21 PM.
I have to disagree about Steiner being in his prime, he was definitely at the start of the downside of his career at this time. Plus, and I know there were fans of the Big Bad Booty Daddy but I wasn't one of them so it'd be extremely difficult for me to say the main event fans wanted was midcard Scott Steiner v. Goldberg. Had this been 1991 Scott Steiner v. Goldberg, oh yeah dude that's me all day as I loved neon singlet Steiner.
Uh, 1991 Steiner was through and through mid card, Steiner in 1998 could easily have been the top heel in WCW if Hogan, Nash etc weren't there protecting the status quo. Steiner wasn't the athlete he was in the early 90's sure but his overall, look, persona and still good skills were all top notch. Kind of like how we talked about Owen Hart and Brian Pillman having their physical primes and persona/gimmick/overall character primes at slightly different times.
I think Steiner, Booker T and Goldberg could/should have been WCW's versions of Rock, Austin, HHH. Throw in Raven there as the equivalent of Mankind too. Difference was that those guys in the WWF didn't still have the old guard there protecting their spots.
Scott Steiner in 1991 would wrestle circles around any version of Superstar Graham Steiner. But again, I never liked that version of Scott Steiner. I also think what tainted his big push was that it was so heavy with that Russo stink, Russo was a big fan of Steiner and when Russo came in and just started mega pushing people like Scott Steiner, The Wall, Kidman, it just felt like he was "being different just to be different".
The old guard in 1997/1998 were still drawing huge numbers though. IMO, they were protecting their spots in the last year or so, that 1999/2000 stretch. No way would it have made sense to put guys like Hogan and Kevin Nash off to the side to throw Booker T in the main event when Booker T was barely sniffing the TV title scene and was still pretty active in tag-teams in 1997.
It is weird though how the "old guard" so to speak were not drawing very well in the early mid 90's WWF but they went to WCW and eventually when Nash/Hall show up it just clicks.
I mean you have to think if guys like DDP, Scott Steiner, and Booker T were so huge and popular, why is that to this day the majority of us think the Invasion angle was seriously lacking due to not having the "old guard" so to speak in the mix? Like with Guerrero, Jericho, Benoit, the time just wasn't right for them and when the time would have been right they were either gone to the WWF or WCW were still booking shit like Hogan v. Kidman.....
Well, the invasion angle was lacking because the WCW was lacking Sting. He was the guy everyone associated with WCW and we didn't get to see him. It wasn't due to missing Nash or Hogan
No. It was lacking because they didn't have Sting, Flair, the nWo, Goldberg, Rey Misterio, Big Poppa Pump, those were huge missing pieces. Nobody in 17 years has ever said "Well if they just had Sting teaming with Chuck Palumbo, Kronik, DDP, and Booker T then it would have been amazing" Sting was definitely a huge missing piece but he was one of many huge missing pieces.
Nash actually was crazy over as a face in 1998. More over than all of those guys. Only one who was even close would be DDP. Sting lost most of his momentum after losing the title. Eddie had a lot of heat but wasn't a star at all. Benoit was respected but not super over.
In an ideal world Booker T probably should have been the guy to break Goldberg's streak but he got hurt in the summer so it wasn't really an option. Booker had all the tools and was really getting hot as a singles act in 1998.
As great as they were and would become, Eddie and Benoit weren't in the same stratosphere as Nash at this time. DDP's popularity peaked from the Savage feud in '97 and probably to the Malone/Rodman/Hogan stuff in '98. He wasn't as over later on, even when he became WCW champion.
Booker T ending the streak wouldn't make much sense to me. I do think Booker would have been the ideal feud against Steiner for the WCW title after Steiner ended the streak though. Goldberg could be per-occupied with the nWo, going through Luger, Hall, Nash and Hogan before getting the rematch against Steiner at Halloween Havoc '99 or Starrcade.
Mid '98 to early '99 is the period where WCW should have tried to slowly phase out the older guys from the top of the card and ease in guys like Steiner, Booker, Jericho*, Raven, Benoit, Guerrero, Rey Jr along with Goldberg, The Giant*, DDP and possibly add Bret Hart to that mix. Not saying they should throw Hogan, Savage, Luger, Nash, Hall, Flair, Piper, Hennig and Sting in the trash, they were still draws and could still be near the top of the card wrestling and feuding with each other, and if needed you could easily move one of them up into a feud with Goldberg/Steiner/Booker etc.
*In this scenario Jericho and The Giant decides to stay with WCW. Jericho knew he would never get above US/TV title level at the time with the same crew on top.
Take a look at the PPV main events in 1999..
January: Goldberg/Hall
February: Hogan vs. Flair
March: Hogan vs. flair
April: Hogan vs. Flair vs. DDP vs. Sting
May: DDP vs. Nash
June: Nash vs. Savage
July: Nash/Sting vs. Savage/Sid
August: Hogan vs. Nash
September: Hogan/Sting
After Russo came in in the fall we had Sting/Goldberg, Bret Hart/Chris Benoit and Goldberg/Bret Hart.
After SuperBrawl IX there's a massive decline.
Many fans, younger me included just wasn't into seeing different variations of Hogan/Flair/Savage/Sting/Flair/Sid/Nash anymore, especially when they had younger, fresher, hungrier guys setting the WWF on fire at the same time.
You know what, since we're already talking about him and it's his birthday let's just bang it out right now, hit or miss, Kevin Nash in WCW?
Massive hit. He was one of the few guys who didn't completely flop once he went to WCW in the 90's after already being there early on in his career. That's what makes him such a legend. 90% of the guys Vince took to the next level pretty much flopped under Turner and co. but not Kevin Nash. Kevin actually became BIGGER than he was in the WWF, and he spent a lot of the first couple years as a tag-team guy.
I never was a big fan of his, but I don't doubt the fact that he was immensely over and a huge hit.
Huge hit. He (and Hall) was the hottest thing in wrestling from mid 1996 probably until Austin/McMahon kicked into high gear post WMXIV.
You know what I love about Nash during the 2nd WCW run is that for all the shit he gets for playing politics, he was still willing to work a program with Rey Misterio. WCW knew they had a rising star that the CW division wasn't big enough for and in a way this was like Nash's version of what Razor did for 123 Kid.
Oh there's no denying Nash was a big hit in WCW. His personality and mic skills really got a chance to shine in a way we never saw him when he was "Deisel".
So true. When you go back and watch the last 4-5 months after he lost the belt prior to joining WCW, we did start to see some of that "Kevin Nash nWo". He was more of a heel than a face but he really was "Big Daddy Cool". I wish that we had seen more of that in the WWF but it was just a different time. And ironically it was the way he was portrayed in WCW that ultimately forced Vince's hand to stop trying to script everything and make everyone so Disney channel and get more realistic and "cool" so to speak.
I really liked the last couple of months of Diesel's WWF run, from Survivor Series 1995 to Good Friends Better Enemies. Might have been the first ever proper tweener in the WWF. He was a tweener until he turned full on heel on HBK in that MSG tag match. It was pretty much the same character as early WCW Nash.
I agree 100%. I can vividly remember the first time I saw "Diesel" and he was doing the bodyguard thing. At the time I had actually been watching way more WCW and barely watched WWF but my best friend was watching WWF religiously and told me to check this Diesel guy out. I was so happy to see my man Vinnie Vegas lol. As a heel he was money, he was getting the 50/50 crowd response with Shawn where I think peeps truly hated Shawn but really started to warm up to Diesel.
Then it was like they tried to Hogan him, or make him like Bret, this smiling babyface wearing a fucking Santa hat and not even winning your first title defense on ppv. He didn't exactly have the opponents to make the main event fire but what can you do?
But yeah those last 4-5 months were great especially his last ppv where he fuckin chucked his heavy ass jacket at Vince. Plus, he's the first guy to flip someone off on camera!
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