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Thread: Hit or Miss: WCW Edition

  1. #101
    Legend Badger's Avatar
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    Loved the Good Friends Better Enemies match when "Diesel" was using Vachon's leg.

  2. #102
    النهاية قادمة .. OD50's Avatar
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    Everything about Diesel/HBK at IYHVII was great, from throwing the vest on Vince's face, to the table power bomb to the fire extinguisher to Mad Dog Vachon's wooden leg, the top rope moonsault to the outside. Loved it.

  3. #103
    النهاية قادمة .. OD50's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nash Diesel View Post
    Then it was like they tried to Hogan him, or make him like Bret, this smiling babyface wearing a fucking Santa hat and not even winning your first title defense on ppv. He didn't exactly have the opponents to make the main event fire but what can you do?
    I remember there was an article on this exact thing in the RAW magazine, that Vince tried to turn Diesel into Hogan instead of letting him be himself and Diesel being miserable about it. It was one of those old great worked shoots they used to do in RAW magazine.

    Speaking of which, how fn great was RAW magazine at the start?





    Last edited by OD50; July 9th, 2018 at 1:37 PM.

  4. #104
    Wolfpac Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OD50 View Post
    Everything about Diesel/HBK at IYHVII was great, from throwing the vest on Vince's face, to the table power bomb to the fire extinguisher to Mad Dog Vachon's wooden leg, the top rope moonsault to the outside. Loved it.
    It really made Nash's transition to WCW pretty solid as well. He went from chucking his jacket at one boss to powerbombing the new boss through a fucking table.

    And let's be honest, he's top 3 in shoot interviews and top 2 in shooting on people on live t.v., 2nd only to Triple H.

  5. #105
    Wolfpac Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    18 years ago yesterday WCW gave us something very interesting, disturbing, and exciting all in one. Today we are going to talk about the angle that played out at Bash at the Beach 2000 between Hollywood Hogan, Jeff Jarrett, Vince Russo, and Booker T. Was it a hit, or was it a miss?

    For those that don't know the short version is that Hogan was supposed to beat Jeff Jarrett for the WCW World title. Only it didn't exactly go down that way. Russo told Jarrett to simply lay down for Hulk. Hulk took the belt and then after the fact Russo came back out, shit all over Hogan on ppv, "fired" him, and then had Booker T v. Jeff Jarrett for the World title. Booker T would go on to win the match and the title.

    Now the story varies on what was supposed to come of this. Some say all of it aside from Russo's rant was a worked shoot. Hogan actually went on to sue WCW successfully for this one little moment in the angle due to him having creative control. And apparently, according to Hogan, Bischoff, maybe a few others, Hogan was then going to come back and stake claim to being the true champion sometime around Halloween Havoc. That obviously never happened because Hogan never returned to WCW thanks to Russo.


  6. #106
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    Miss. They tried to create buzz, and there was plenty of it, but it didn't really do anything to help anybody. Booker was deserving of a run at the top, but what Russo did here was put the focus on Russo instead of the talent. Hogan looked like a doofus, Jarrett looked like a man without any pride or confidence in his own abilities, and Booker T looked like an also-ran because he didn't really beat anybody with a backbone.

  7. #107
    Wolfpac Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3puppies View Post
    Miss. They tried to create buzz, and there was plenty of it, but it didn't really do anything to help anybody. Booker was deserving of a run at the top, but what Russo did here was put the focus on Russo instead of the talent. Hogan looked like a doofus, Jarrett looked like a man without any pride or confidence in his own abilities, and Booker T looked like an also-ran because he didn't really beat anybody with a backbone.
    I agree with all of this. Not to mention, Booker T lost earlier in the night to Kanyon and nothing came of that. Like you I felt Booker T was deserving, but not this way. He was easily one of my favorites for many years in WCW, loved Harlem Heat too. He deserved more than being some weird pawn in Russo's game to fuck Hulk Hogan because Russo just couldn't figure out why Hogan was still the most over guy in the company.

    Russo did a lot to sabotage Hogan. Putting him in that stupid ass feud with Kidman, pretending it was to help Kidman lol.

  8. #108
    النهاية قادمة .. OD50's Avatar
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    I vividly remember reading Powerslam Magazine back in the day and seeing that picture of Kidman vs. Hogan, who was wrestling in black jeans and a black vest or something. Was thinking I was glad my cable operator pulled the plug on TNT back in October '99, if they hadn't I'd probably kept watching WCW through those two final awful years.

    When I last watched WCW Kidman was wrestling Juventud, Blitzkrieg and that red haired kid from New Orleans (Lash Leroux?) in the opener, now he was defeating Hogan all of a sudden..

  9. #109
    Wolfpac Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OD50 View Post
    I vividly remember reading Powerslam Magazine back in the day and seeing that picture of Kidman vs. Hogan, who was wrestling in black jeans and a black vest or something. Was thinking I was glad my cable operator pulled the plug on TNT back in October '99, if they hadn't I'd probably kept watching WCW through those two final awful years.

    When I last watched WCW Kidman was wrestling Juventud, Blitzkrieg and that red haired kid from New Orleans (Lash Leroux?) in the opener, now he was defeating Hogan all of a sudden..
    It amazed me honestly how popular Kidman was to a certain extent. I had a lot of friends who when we'd backyard wrestle, they'd show up with shorts on and tucked in white tank top. Maybe his shitty SSP wowed them idk. But anyone with half a brain knows that feud was fucked from the start. Russo tried to disguise at hotshotting Kidman, thinking like how it was in the past where someone would simply team up or have 1 match on t.v. with Hogan and be looked at as a bigger star.

    But those guys all had the tools to get to that next level. Kidman didn't. He had no personality and he wasn't convincing. Hogan did his best but even he said in his book nobody was buying it and ultimately just hurt the company, Kidman, even Hogan because I remember thinking no wonder nobody is watching WCW, they're having Hogan feud with Kidman. Not Kanyon, not Mike Awesome, not Booker T, not Chris Benoit, not even Konnan. They chose the lamest fucking dude in the company and the only reason they would do that is because Russo wanted to sabotage Hogan so badly.

    Or maybe Torrie Wilson met with Russo one night in a hotel lobby and the next day Kidman's a "top guy".

    Dude I would have taken Hogan v. VAMPIRO over Kidman.

  10. #110
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    I'll go for this now....Chris Benoit. Although he went a long time without winning a championship in WCW, he was a powerhouse in the midcard like the great series with Booker. They obviously saw more in him and wanted to keep him by giving him the title victory over Sid but had the plan B should he decide to jump ship which he did. A big what if should he have stayed in WCW longer.

    I think on balance, he was still a hit.

  11. #111
    Wolfpac Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Definitely a hit. The first time I remember seeing Benoit he guerrilla press slammed Kurasawa (sp?) and saved Arn or Brian Pillman I can't remember. I just remember thinking he must be the fucking shit if this practical no name was being put in the Horsemen.

    He was one of my favorites of all time, everyone I knew liked Benoit. Definitely felt his feud with Kevin Sullivan was easily one of the best feuds WCW did. Another guy though who just had the unfortunate luck of being in a top heavy promotion but he was making his way up. Winning the World title and then quitting the next day, that's stuff of legend.

    100% Hit.

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nash Diesel
    I just remember thinking he must be the fucking shit if this practical no name was being put in the Horsemen.
    Although in Mongo's case, I was thinking "Why would they put somebody so fucking shit in the Horsemen?" There's another question, who should've been the big guy enforcer type instead of Mongo?

    But back to Benoit, I only started watching WCW properly in 1996 round about the time the NWO started up but Benoit got my attention from the get go. Aside from his obvious skill, I think part of the charm was that he was not a champion but kicking arse to move his way up and try and become a champion. I would have liked to see him mix it up in singles with the NWO guys like Hall, Nash and Hogan more but it never really appened.

  13. #113
    Wolfpac Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badger View Post
    Although in Mongo's case, I was thinking "Why would they put somebody so fucking shit in the Horsemen?" There's another question, who should've been the big guy enforcer type instead of Mongo?

    But back to Benoit, I only started watching WCW properly in 1996 round about the time the NWO started up but Benoit got my attention from the get go. Aside from his obvious skill, I think part of the charm was that he was not a champion but kicking arse to move his way up and try and become a champion. I would have liked to see him mix it up in singles with the NWO guys like Hall, Nash and Hogan more but it never really appened.
    You know what's crazy is that while Mongo was very green I actually liked him in the group. He had great personality and he was big and believable. Still a very odd choice.

    I would have liked to have seen Benoit mix it up in actual feuds with those guys, especially Scott Hall. Benoit v. Hall for the World championship or even the US championship would have been a really good program because they could tear it up with anyone really.

    Another great period in time for Benoit was his triangle feud with Raven and DDP. Any combination of those two were great. I also liked when WCW beefed up their tag-scene and put him and Malenko together as a super team almost.

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nash Diesel View Post
    You know what's crazy is that while Mongo was very green I actually liked him in the group. He had great personality and he was big and believable. Still a very odd choice.

    I would have liked to have seen Benoit mix it up in actual feuds with those guys, especially Scott Hall. Benoit v. Hall for the World championship or even the US championship would have been a really good program because they could tear it up with anyone really.

    Another great period in time for Benoit was his triangle feud with Raven and DDP. Any combination of those two were great. I also liked when WCW beefed up their tag-scene and put him and Malenko together as a super team almost.
    I often wonder how much being with Debra contributed to Mongo's push? I think it might have been similar to Mero/Sable in that although Debra did not reach the heights Sable did but having an attractive wife like Debra sealed the deal.

    Benoit/Hall would've been a great championship feud. Benoit/Nash too. Nash being his usual cocky self mocking Benoit's size but when Benoit takes the fight and chops his pecs to bit, Nash shits himself and actually takes it seriously getting desperate to win,

    The Raven/DDP stuff was great. There was the obvious Booker feud but throw in Fit Finlay too and these guys made the midcard titles matter in spite of the main event/NWO glass ceiling. Also I remember marking out big time for Benoit and Malenko's tag title win because it was his first televised title win.

    A great Benoit match that never happened as far as I can recall was Benoit/Sting. Those two could have well torn it up.

  15. #115
    Wolfpac Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badger View Post
    I often wonder how much being with Debra contributed to Mongo's push? I think it might have been similar to Mero/Sable in that although Debra did not reach the heights Sable did but having an attractive wife like Debra sealed the deal.

    Benoit/Hall would've been a great championship feud. Benoit/Nash too. Nash being his usual cocky self mocking Benoit's size but when Benoit takes the fight and chops his pecs to bit, Nash shits himself and actually takes it seriously getting desperate to win,

    The Raven/DDP stuff was great. There was the obvious Booker feud but throw in Fit Finlay too and these guys made the midcard titles matter in spite of the main event/NWO glass ceiling. Also I remember marking out big time for Benoit and Malenko's tag title win because it was his first televised title win.

    A great Benoit match that never happened as far as I can recall was Benoit/Sting. Those two could have well torn it up.
    It does look like they wrestled just a few times. I figured Sting v. Benoit had to have happened when he was in the Horsemen or something but apparently not.

    I mean look at this fucking pre-ECW Benoit teaming with Mr. Wonderful (what a team!!) v. Dustin Rhodes and Sting!!

    This was on the Power Hour, I don't even remember this show:



    Looks like they had a couple singles matches on Nitro in 1999 but that's about it for those 2 which is still crazy to me they didn't go 1 on 1 earlier.

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nash Diesel View Post
    It does look like they wrestled just a few times. I figured Sting v. Benoit had to have happened when he was in the Horsemen or something but apparently not.

    I mean look at this fucking pre-ECW Benoit teaming with Mr. Wonderful (what a team!!) v. Dustin Rhodes and Sting!!

    This was on the Power Hour, I don't even remember this show:



    Looks like they had a couple singles matches on Nitro in 1999 but that's about it for those 2 which is still crazy to me they didn't go 1 on 1 earlier.
    I did wonder if Benoit and Sting had mixed it up in some fashion hence the "as far as I can recall" statement.

    Benoit vs Crow Sting (not the shitty red-faced woooing Wolfpac crap)!would've been tremendous.

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badger View Post
    I did wonder if Benoit and Sting had mixed it up in some fashion hence the "as far as I can recall" statement.

    Benoit vs Crow Sting (not the shitty red-faced woooing Wolfpac crap)!would've been tremendous.
    Yeah I wasn't sure if they had either which is why I had to look it up because nothing was standing out. Chris Benoit v. "normal" Sting, like late 1995/early 96 Sting would have been cool as well.

  18. #118
    النهاية قادمة .. OD50's Avatar
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    sweden
    I definitely have vague memories of seeing Sting vs. Benoit on Nitro.

    Found it. September 20, 1999. Makes sense, I had TNT until October 1999 so I definitely watched this show. .



    https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4iebkc

  19. #119
    Wolfpac Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OD50 View Post
    I definitely have vague memories of seeing Sting vs. Benoit on Nitro.

    Found it. September 20, 1999. Makes sense, I had TNT until October 1999 so I definitely watched this show. .

    Yep yep that's what I was talking about a few posts ago that the only singles matches I could find were on Nitros from 1999, which wasn't exactly a banner year for WCW.

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by OD50 View Post
    I definitely have vague memories of seeing Sting vs. Benoit on Nitro.

    Found it. September 20, 1999. Makes sense, I had TNT until October 1999 so I definitely watched this show. .



    https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4iebkc
    I gave up watching WCW aḅut summer 1999 so explains why I missed that match.

  21. #121
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    sweden
    I found Luger, Savage, Sting vs. Benoit, Flair, Mongo on Nitro July 29, 1996 and Luger, Savage, Sting vs. Benoit, Arn, Mongo on Nitro July 22, 1996. Those must be the only two times Benoit and (surfer) Sting has shared a ring on television. Surfer Sting's last ever appearance must have been at Fall Brawl '96, September I guess.

    Also found Sting vs. Benoit on a house show (April 21, 1996).

  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nash Diesel View Post
    You do realize we have a lot of things we can cover in this thread for WCW, right? If this is the level of participation we can expect from you I suggest you go back to your den of negativity.

    You do realize were we're talking about a professional wrestling company that hadn't existed in 20 years?

    I suggest you can go back to your grandmothers den where her computer you use is stored and stop acting like wrestling is World War III and you're Walter Freaking Cronkite. It's not and you're not..it's fun!
    Last edited by NWo4LifeOr2Years; July 12th, 2018 at 2:35 AM.

  23. #123
    Wolfpac Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NWo4LifeOr2Years View Post
    You do realize were we're talking about a professional wrestling company that hadn't existed in 20 years?

    I suggest you can go back to your grandmothers den where her computer you use is stored and stop acting like wrestling is World War III and you're Walter Freaking Cronkite. It's not and you're not..it's fun!
    Yeah we're trying to have a fun conversation about the 2nd biggest promotion in the history of pro wrestling. Notice you're the only person acting like a douchebag about it, which isn't exactly out of the ordinary for you. So again, before you get slapped verbally for being out of pocket just partake or bounce. It's that simple.

  24. #124
    Wolfpac Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Today we're taking it back somewhat because even though it's titled "WCW" most of us still consider the 80's NWA part of that history for sure. So today I want to talk about a classic tag-team that helped shape the blueprint for great tag-team wrestling as well as just how God damn fucking incredible a heel manager can be motherfucker. I present with extra cheese extra mayo extra jam, the Midnight Express and Jim Cornette: HIT OR MISS??????????






    Now, growing up, I do not remember watching the original Midnight Express but I do remember hating the fuck out of the Stan Lane/Bobby Eaton version. Never understood why Jim was so strong with the swing of a racket but couldn't handle himself against women.

    So what say you? And again you can respect the contribution but you don't have to enjoy it if that makes sense. Like, I can't watch Bruno Sammartino go 45 minutes with Ivan Putski or whoever but I respect the hell out of Bruno.

    I'm going to say Hit.

  25. #125
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    Hit. Great heel unit and drew big money with the RnR. I only really watched the Eaton/Lane combo.

  26. #126
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    I didn't follow WCW/NWA in this era, but why did Cornette always have the tennis racket?

    Was it ever explained as part of his gimmick or just to make him look like a pansy and for the obvious go to heel illegal weapon?

  27. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Boombastic View Post
    I didn't follow WCW/NWA in this era, but why did Cornette always have the tennis racket?

    Was it ever explained as part of his gimmick or just to make him look like a pansy and for the obvious go to heel illegal weapon?
    His gimmick was that he was a spoiled rich kid and tennis is a rich person sport.

    Here's an explanation from him:


  28. #128
    النهاية قادمة .. OD50's Avatar
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    sweden
    My most hated managers as a kid was Bobby Heenan, Jimmy Hart and Jim Cornette. Cornie was definitely doing something right.

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    Today's hit or miss is none of than the mysterious man called MORTIS.

    Mortis was part of the Blood Runs Cold storyline that also involved Glacier, Wrath, James Mitchell (the manager) and legit martial arts master Ernest "The Cat' Miller. On paper the storyline probably looked really cool and to be honest I did have high hopes. But Mortis, regardless of the angle, was awesome. Chris Kanyon RIP, such a great underrated wrestler. One of my go-to's for N64 games lol. The cool moves, the look, the great manager, I really enjoyed what we got out of it.

    I'm going to say it was a cult favorite hit but a miss overall because WCW could have done so much more. Hell I used to dream about Mortis in the WWE and I guess there was a dark match where Kanyon rocked the gear one last time. Imagine him in the Undertaker's life? Amazing.

  30. #130
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    sweden
    I know lots of people like it but I hated that Mortal Kombat rip-off stuff; Mortis, Wrath, Glacier, Ernest Miller, James Vanderburg (?) goofy all around and it didn't really get over either. I played MK on the old arcade machines back in 1992-1993 so I felt this was a little late to the party. Maybe it was more trying to benefit from the movies that came in the mid 90's than the game?

    Had I been a little younger at the time, like 13-15 I might have liked it better, being 21-22 I felt it was too cartoony for me. Same with the Undertaker, had I been 10 when he debuted I might have been terrified but I was 14 and didn't like the hokey dead man gimmick at all.

    So, miss for Mortis and the Mortal Kombat rip-off for me.

  31. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by OD50 View Post
    I know lots of people like it but I hated that Mortal Kombat rip-off stuff; Mortis, Wrath, Glacier, Ernest Miller, James Vanderburg (?) goofy all around and it didn't really get over either. I played MK on the old arcade machines back in 1992-1993 so I felt this was a little late to the party. Maybe it was more trying to benefit from the movies that came in the mid 90's than the game?

    Had I been a little younger at the time, like 13-15 I might have liked it better, being 21-22 I felt it was too cartoony for me. Same with the Undertaker, had I been 10 when he debuted I might have been terrified but I was 14 and didn't like the hokey dead man gimmick at all.

    So, miss for Mortis and the Mortal Kombat rip-off for me.
    Well you have to remember Mortal Kombat hasn't stopped. They had like 3 of them by the time Mortis debuted both at the arcade and for gaming consoles.

    I just don't think WCW was the place most wrestling fans went to to watch WWF style gimmicks like this or the Dungeon of Doom. Seriously, those are gimmicks Vince would have knocked out the park especially something like Glacier, Mortis, etc. But for someone like you I can relate because I too was like "ugh Undertaker what the fuck is this?" And I didn't really get into him until they started actually humanizing him with Mankind and then later the Kane storyline.

    I think it would have been cool for WCW to expand on the Blood Runs Cold universe so to speak, we never really got the history of these men and how they were connected and that was imo why it was a big miss overall.

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    I was just really sick of those type of gimmicks by 1997 since like 1992-1995 had been littered with garbage men, man-bulls, cowboys, plumbers, race car drivers, the Yeti, Zodiak, Giant Gonzales, Bastion Booger etc, etc. I wanted wrestlers to be wrestlers, not janitors, fire men, prisoners or whatever. The one "occupational" gimmick I really liked was the Big Bossman. Doink was goofy as shit but it honestly was kind of cool when Matt Borne was doing it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OD50 View Post
    I was just really sick of those type of gimmicks by 1997 since like 1992-1995 had been littered with garbage men, man-bulls, cowboys, plumbers, race car drivers, the Yeti, Zodiak, Giant Gonzales, Bastion Booger etc, etc. I wanted wrestlers to be wrestlers, not janitors, fire men, prisoners or whatever. The one "occupational" gimmick I really liked was the Big Bossman. Doink was goofy as shit but it honestly was kind of cool when Matt Borne was doing it.
    I agree dude. By the time I was 14-15, the nWo could not have arrived sooner lol. Especially for WCW. While I love pro wrestling, this time period of like 1992-early 1996 was a big reason why I started watching more and more martial arts sports. ESPN would show kickboxing late at night and then the UFC debuted so I was really getting into that when I was still pretty young.

    It's funny because I always think about how big of an influence Ken Shamrock was on me. It was him that made me really start to get back into the WWF and it was him who brought me back to the UFC in 2002 with the Tito stuff. Had he never returned to the UFC I probably would not have jumped back in to MMA until TUF started since it aired right after Raw.

  34. #134
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    I think the Mortis gimmick was a miss. Cool look but they didn't really know how to present it and it wasn't a good fit with the more realistic tone their show was taking on at the time. At a different time I think the gimmick could have worked really well.

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    I think Mortis was a miss overall.. but I loved the look and personally really enjoyed watching him! he had some unique offensive moves that made him entertaining.. Wrath and Mortis could have been a fun tag team with the right booking too but it never happened.

    I loved MK but having both Glacier and Mortis was a MK overkill at the time imo and did they ever actually reveal the backstory between Mortis and Glacier?

  36. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nash Diesel View Post
    Never understood why Jim was so strong with the swing of a racket but couldn't handle himself against women.
    Wasn't the story that he had like an iron horse shoe in the tennis racket?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nash Diesel View Post
    Yeah we're trying to have a fun conversation about the 2nd biggest promotion in the history of pro wrestling. Notice you're the only person acting like a douchebag about it, which isn't exactly out of the ordinary for you. So again, before you get slapped verbally for being out of pocket just partake or bounce. It's that simple.
    Fair enough...

    Send me another pm when you get to The Shockmaster okay?

    (in case I miss it, he's a big hit)

  38. #138
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    Today's hit or miss comes from the sunny darkness of Parts Unknown. I bring to you the man behind the O.W.N.:



    The Ultimate Warrior in WCW, hit or miss?

    I'm going to say MISSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS. I was barely a Warrior fan despite my Mom buying me a Warrior poster for my room back in 89-90. For me, as a hardcore wrestling fan, this was kind of the beginning of the end for my fandom of WCW. While a few months later Nash would win the world title ending Goldberg's streak, I just didn't get into another rehashed WWF feud no matter if it was a different situation or not.

    I mean, on the surface it makes total sense. Warrior, 1 of the few guys in Hogan's big run to ever get a W let alone a CLEAN W. I think other than Lex Luger and Goldberg nobody had defeated Hogan clean. So the concept was there but it just sucks that Warrior sucked and Hogan wasn't much better. I mean, clearly they had the worst match of the decade at Halloween Havoc 1998.

  39. #139
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    Huge miss. The whole thing was utter shit.

  40. #140
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    Biggest miss of the thread so far. Bret still had some good moments but this just outright sucked. WWE was edging towards a more real edgy product and while this could've been a huge rematch, they just killed the feud with the spooky shit going back to the cartoon era. The match was notoriously bad the failed fireball and the deciding factor was of all people Horace. Really Horace??????

  41. #141
    النهاية قادمة .. OD50's Avatar
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    Everything about the Warrior/OWN in WCW was complete shit. I remember being fairly excited when he debuted (i kind of liked his 1996 WWF run) and then he cut that two hour ramble on Nitro and it got much worse from there on..

  42. #142
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    Today's entry is someone who started out as Sting's little buddy and went on to carry tag-team gold with several different partners before finally finding his calling. Lady and Gentlemen I bring to you the 1, the only: BUFF BAGWELL



    I was never a fan of Buff Bagwell but I was definitely on an island of few who didn't lol. Seemed like everyone knew the catchphrase, they did the strut. He even did a shoot not too long ago, a few years ago maybe, where he said at one point he was either just as big or bigger than The Rock. And to an extent I agree because yes The Rock did surpass Buff no doubt, but that 1997-1998 stretch those 2 were coming up at the same time and Buff was super over.

    So while I wasn't a fan I have to say Buff Bagwell was a hit. I would go as far to say that he was more popular in the nWo than he was after the fact when he turned babyface again but still pretty damn over.

  43. #143
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    I will agree with you that Buff was a hit in WCW. I wasn't a super fan either, but the few chances I saw him, he was getting huge reactions.

  44. #144
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    @3puppies Do you think if WCW continued beyond March 2001 that he would have won the World title? I was actually surprised he didn't win it at some point in 2000 but they had him doing a lot of oddball shit with Shane Douglas and Lex Luger that I wasn't too high on.

  45. #145
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    They did a lot of dumb stuff back then, and from the interviews from many of the key players involved, it seemed they quite often did not really have solid long term plans - so much stuff was week to week decisions by multiple decision-makers. So sure, they probably would have put the belt on him at some point had they continued

  46. #146
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    Buff was huge back then, a definite hit. He was a guy you loved to hate in late WCW.

  47. #147
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    The next entrant is about as opposite of Buff the Stuff as you can get. The twisted insane Taskmaster himself, KEVIN SULLIVAN!!



    Kevin Sullivan, a top tier heel during the early days of Nitro. Personally felt had one of the best feuds in WCW history with Chris Benoit.

    I said this in the past but I think if the Dungeon of Doom happened in the WWF it would have been received better. I didn't completely hate it but I only really started liking it around the time The Giant debuted and then obviously the Sullivan-Benoit feud. Sullivan is also considered one of if not THE best booker to get heat on people. He definitely contributed quite a bit as a booker. The Benoit feud alone I have to say he was a hit. He was probably beyond his prime at this point so he didn't have a whole lot to offer as a wrestler but his contributions backstage were also very positive (not all but quite a bit).

    I just don't know if people can forgive him for storylines like EVAD.

  48. #148
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    Since I, and most of the audience, don't care a lick about the backstage politics and booking, we just want to see good storylines and great matches.

    I'd say Kevin Sullivan was more miss than hit (I give Benoit more credit for their feud, which was pretty good).

  49. #149
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    you give Benoit more credit for a feud that Sullivan himself, booked? logic.

    nice to know that you speak for the majority of the audience, as well.

    sullivan was past his peak as a wrestler by the time i started watching him in wcw. dungeon of doom stuff was pretty shitty, but he still cut good promos and knew how to make matches work.

    also, he helped make the greatness that was EVAD sullivan

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    Evad was at least more entertaining than the Equalizer. Evad/DDP was a pretty fun feud, although a rip-off of Savage/Steele.

  51. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3puppies View Post
    Since I, and most of the audience, don't care a lick about the backstage politics and booking, we just want to see good storylines and great matches.

    I'd say Kevin Sullivan was more miss than hit (I give Benoit more credit for their feud, which was pretty good).

    You don't care who is responsible for a great script in a movie? I can understand that from a fan's point of view. Most people don't even know how wrote 90% of the movies they love, they'll tell you the actors, the director, the producer, but they'll struggle if none of them were the writer as well.

    But if you're the actor, you damn sure better care who's putting that script together just like if you're a wrestler, you want someone to deliver on the storylines and characters, right? I'm not even sure why you made that comment because truth be told, a lot of fans do give a shit about the booking and who was responsible for putting certain angles together. If they didn't, why are wrestling podcasts so popular?

    In your defense about The Sullivan/Benoit angle, I think you're saying Benoit delivered more than Sullivan regardless who was booking it. It's like someone going "I give Austin more credit for their feud than Vince". Yes, Vince was the guy greenlighting what they were doing but he didn't IMO deliver more than Austin so I give Austin more credit than Vince. I mean, I didn't give a shit about anything Kevin Sullivan did in Florida, WCW, Ring of Honor recently, just the Benoit feud. Yet I found myself a major mark for Chris Benoit and loved practically every angle he was in during his WCW and WWE career.

  52. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nash Diesel View Post
    Today's entry is someone who started out as Sting's little buddy and went on to carry tag-team gold with several different partners before finally finding his calling. Lady and Gentlemen I bring to you the 1, the only: BUFF BAGWELL



    I was never a fan of Buff Bagwell but I was definitely on an island of few who didn't lol. Seemed like everyone knew the catchphrase, they did the strut. He even did a shoot not too long ago, a few years ago maybe, where he said at one point he was either just as big or bigger than The Rock. And to an extent I agree because yes The Rock did surpass Buff no doubt, but that 1997-1998 stretch those 2 were coming up at the same time and Buff was super over.

    So while I wasn't a fan I have to say Buff Bagwell was a hit. I would go as far to say that he was more popular in the nWo than he was after the fact when he turned babyface again but still pretty damn over.
    Buff was a hit. An absolute dick heel who got great reactions however sucked as a face though not always his own fault as he got booked in some terrible stuff ie Mum on a pole.

  53. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badger View Post
    Buff was a hit. An absolute dick heel who got great reactions however sucked as a face though not always his own fault as he got booked in some terrible stuff ie Mum on a pole.
    It was one of those gimmicks where I think WCW thought ok he's getting some really positive feedback but he's a heel, we need to turn him and maximize the reaction. Sadly, it was one of those gimmicks where the lack of depth in the character prevented Marcus Bagwell from really being able to transition. Rarely does this type of gimmick get over as a babyface without some type of tweaking and it was just still Buff the douchebag. Same promos same approach just different opponents. Probably why they turned him heel again and paired him with Flexy Lexy.

  54. #154
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    Hit for Sullivan too. He deserves credit for his part in the Benoit angle.

  55. #155
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    I think Bagwell was a hit from the start in WCW. Good looking, young underdog turning into a solid mid-carder (American Males was pretty bad though), then into a great heel with the nWo, specifically with Scott Steiner and Scott Norton. His face turn (1999?) was absolute dog shit though, the strutting, posing and the stupid ass top hat made him anything but likeable. Buff was one of the most over heels on the roster in 1998 and they turned him into the worst babyface, just so he could feud with Steiner or something. Since I stopped watching WCW in October 1999 I honestly can't judge his career post that, the stuff I've heard about doesn't seem all that great though.

    From what I saw of Buff 1993 to 1999 I'd say he was a hit. I think Bagwell & Scorpio was a really, really great face team.

  56. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badger View Post
    Hit for Sullivan too. He deserves credit for his part in the Benoit angle.
    Oh he's getting credit, I just like 3pup was meaning that Benoit shined brighter in that feud which I agree. Benoit came in virtually a nobody and walked out a million bucks and that wasn't because Sullivan did all the work. And I don't think it would have been that great if it were say Kevin Sullivan v. The Booty Man.

  57. #157
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    Thank you, you said that better than I did.

  58. #158
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    Kevin Sullivan seemed like a short dude. Or was the Giant wearing lifts cause he looks ginormous.

  59. #159
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    Buff's heel turn with Steiner was gold.

  60. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by A Monster Among Posters View Post
    Kevin Sullivan seemed like a short dude. Or was the Giant wearing lifts cause he looks ginormous.
    Sullivan was very short, I'd guess 5'9 ish, stocky as hell though.

  61. #161
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    July 19th will forever be known as the day that we talked about one of the true killers of pro wrestling, a guy who I thought WCW handled very well and he became very popular in the midcard. Was MENG hit or miss?


  62. #162
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    Apparently Meng was a miss lol. I liked Meng, I liked Haku as well. Always felt he was a very solid midcard guy that could be a credible challenger to any championship but maybe not World title storyline contender. Just a guy that Hogan or Savage or Goldberg could look strong against. I really liked his run in the Hardcore division. He kind of had that "Who's Austin going to stunner this week?" vibe with that Tongan Death Grip.

    So I'll say he was a mild hit. He had that short burst where he was a pretty must-see aspect of WCW programming but I felt they should have had him a little higher up the card more often. US-TV title runs or simply feuds with the champions.

  63. #163
    Wolfpac Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    So for today's entry it's a nasty one. Hit or Miss, Knobbs and Saggs, the Nasty Boys!!



    Loved their style. I thought the matches with Public Enemy and Cactus Jack/Max Payne were awesome hardcore matches. I believe they had a really good garbage match with Sullivan and Cactus Jack. They seemed to fit in better here than WWF. They were able to get really solid heat and lived up to their name outside the ring as well. That story of them fucking up Ken Shamrock and throwing him through a window....stuff of legend.

    I'm going to say the Nasty Boys were a hit. Like with Meng you could really insert them anywhere and get the job done.

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