User Tag List

Page 1 of 26 1234511 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 100 of 2506

Thread: 2018 NFL Thread

  1. #1
    Rising Down Fro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Posts
    25,817
    Blog Entries
    2
    Mentioned
    59 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    140641

    2018 NFL Thread

    The Philadelphia Eagles are the 2017 NFL Champions.

    Congrats, enjoy the parade, but now we are on to 2018.

    Key Dates
    March 6: Deadline to designate franchise players
    March 12: Legal tampering period begins
    March 14: Free agency begins
    April 26-28: NFL Draft (Arlington, TX)
    July 16: Deadline to sign franchised players to multi-year deal
    August 2: Beginning of Preseason (Hall of Fame Game)
    August 4: Hall of Fame Induction
    September 6: Regular Season Opener (Philadelphia, PA)
    January 5: NFL Playoffs begin
    February 3: Super Bowl LIII (Atlanta, GA)
    Last edited by Fro; April 26th, 2018 at 9:44 AM.

  2. #2
    Rising Down Fro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Posts
    25,817
    Blog Entries
    2
    Mentioned
    59 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    140641
    @MikeGarafolo:
    The 49ers and QB Jimmy Garoppolo have agreed to a five-year, $137.5 million contract, source says. The biggest deal in NFL history on a average-per-year basis


    Sheesh! The Jimmy G hype is very real.

  3. #3
    My dad pinned Mr Backlund Kneeneighbor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Wearing my scarlet letter with pride
    Posts
    13,730
    Mentioned
    22 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    54781
    ussr
    Undefeated QB. What more could you want?

  4. #4
    Rising Down Fro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Posts
    25,817
    Blog Entries
    2
    Mentioned
    59 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    140641
    Could things have worked out more perfectly for him? I mean sure, he's a gamer and he didn't want 4 years on the bench on a competitive/having fun level. But he gets the huge money deal most QBs dream of after only 7 starts. He's a franchise QB with a giant contract at age 26. He got 3.5 years of not getting hit, not getting injured or concussed, and getting schooled to some extent under Belichick/McDaniels/Brady. Now he can let it rip in his first full season as a starter with financial security and two Super Bowl rings already in hand.

  5. #5
    you either die a hero... Morrison's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    or live long enough to see yourself become a dumdum.
    Posts
    25,164
    Mentioned
    20 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    372381
    stone cold jason kelce is a fucking legend.

  6. #6
    you either die a hero... Morrison's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    or live long enough to see yourself become a dumdum.
    Posts
    25,164
    Mentioned
    20 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    372381

  7. #7
    A Sexy Widdle Baby chrisrandolph1985's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Mitch Egan
    Posts
    3,455
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    161164
    yugoslavia
    Quote Originally Posted by Fro View Post
    Could things have worked out more perfectly for him? I mean sure, he's a gamer and he didn't want 4 years on the bench on a competitive/having fun level. But he gets the huge money deal most QBs dream of after only 7 starts. He's a franchise QB with a giant contract at age 26. He got 3.5 years of not getting hit, not getting injured or concussed, and getting schooled to some extent under Belichick/McDaniels/Brady. Now he can let it rip in his first full season as a starter with financial security and two Super Bowl rings already in hand.
    Pretty much the story of every QB in the NFL. It is tough to find a franchise QB nowadays and teams will throw money at anyone that might lead them to the promised land.

  8. #8
    Rising Down Fro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Posts
    25,817
    Blog Entries
    2
    Mentioned
    59 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    140641
    Quote Originally Posted by chrisrandolph1985 View Post
    Pretty much the story of every QB in the NFL. It is tough to find a franchise QB nowadays and teams will throw money at anyone that might lead them to the promised land.
    Bit of a stretch. We're not talking Mike Glennon money here. I mean yes QBs are getting paid a ton for being decent but I can't think of another example like this where a guy got $74 million guaranteed after 7 starts making him the highest paid player in the league by certain calculations. It is rather unique.

  9. #9
    Andrey isnít here kdestiny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    The war can't touch us here
    Posts
    16,875
    Mentioned
    37 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    91286
    usa
    If those 7 starts were wins then why not?

  10. #10
    My dad pinned Mr Backlund Kneeneighbor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Wearing my scarlet letter with pride
    Posts
    13,730
    Mentioned
    22 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    54781
    ussr
    Quote Originally Posted by Fro View Post
    Could things have worked out more perfectly for him? I mean sure, he's a gamer and he didn't want 4 years on the bench on a competitive/having fun level. But he gets the huge money deal most QBs dream of after only 7 starts. He's a franchise QB with a giant contract at age 26. He got 3.5 years of not getting hit, not getting injured or concussed, and getting schooled to some extent under Belichick/McDaniels/Brady. Now he can let it rip in his first full season as a starter with financial security and two Super Bowl rings already in hand.
    He is a true inspiration to those out there who let their partners do all the work in group projects.

  11. #11
    GP OG Percussion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    juicy junior, real juicy
    Posts
    9,701
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    211329
    maldives
    Wins alone is a shit argument to sign any one player.

    That said, I'd have backed the brinks truck up for Jimmy all the same. The kid's looked, acted, and played the part every step of the way from the moment he hit the draft radar in 2014.

  12. #12
    Rising Down Fro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Posts
    25,817
    Blog Entries
    2
    Mentioned
    59 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    140641
    Quote Originally Posted by chrisrandolph1985 View Post
    https://m.facebook.com/story.php?sto...omment_mention

    It is posts like this that I feel shows how insufferable Pat fans can be. "It was a family decision".
    It is posts like this (yours) that I feel show how insufferable Pats haters can be. This isn't even a bad FB post and you're seeking it out and sharing it like it's obnoxious. You're obsessed.

  13. #13
    World Champion
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    18,215
    Mentioned
    33 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    33236
    Quote Originally Posted by Morrison View Post
    What a fucking speech, I mean WOW. Love that song at the end. Got a little soft spot for Eagles now not that I didn’t mind them anyway.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Who’s the Eagles fans on here? Bet their having a boss party right now.

  14. #14
    A Sexy Widdle Baby chrisrandolph1985's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Mitch Egan
    Posts
    3,455
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    161164
    yugoslavia
    Quote Originally Posted by Fro View Post
    It is posts like this (yours) that I feel show how insufferable Pats haters can be. This isn't even a bad FB post and you're seeking it out and sharing it like it's obnoxious. You're obsessed.
    You are right I am too butthurt, but there is no salve that can sooth the sore ass who hates Pat fans too much.

  15. #15
    A Sexy Widdle Baby chrisrandolph1985's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Mitch Egan
    Posts
    3,455
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    161164
    yugoslavia
    Quote Originally Posted by Fro View Post
    Bit of a stretch. We're not talking Mike Glennon money here. I mean yes QBs are getting paid a ton for being decent but I can't think of another example like this where a guy got $74 million guaranteed after 7 starts making him the highest paid player in the league by certain calculations. It is rather unique.
    It's more than just stats. The 49ers have pissed away a lot of talent over the years and Jimmy is a fresh start.. They have made Jimmy "the man" and are paying him as such. Team needs a guy to build around, fans already like him, and he won games. What more do you need?

  16. #16
    World Champion Bandit's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Long Beach
    Posts
    14,516
    Mentioned
    14 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    81492
    mozambique
    We could see Cousins being the highest paid player in the NFL in a month from now, and then Rodgers eclipsing that mark another month or two later.

  17. #17
    Rising Down Fro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Posts
    25,817
    Blog Entries
    2
    Mentioned
    59 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    140641
    Quote Originally Posted by kdestiny View Post
    If those 7 starts were wins then why not?
    Quote Originally Posted by percussion13 View Post
    Wins alone is a shit argument to sign any one player.

    That said, I'd have backed the brinks truck up for Jimmy all the same. The kid's looked, acted, and played the part every step of the way from the moment he hit the draft radar in 2014.
    Quote Originally Posted by chrisrandolph1985 View Post
    It's more than just stats. The 49ers have pissed away a lot of talent over the years and Jimmy is a fresh start.. They have made Jimmy "the man" and are paying him as such. Team needs a guy to build around, fans already like him, and he won games. What more do you need?
    I'm not really opposing it, I like Jimmy and I'm happy to see him get his money and for this not to be a franchise tag drama like with Cousins where the team is trying to negotiate the lowest deal. It's good he's signed to one place long term.

    But I do think it's surprising to put someone with as little experience as him - 7 starts, one of which ended in injury - to the carousel of highest paid QB. I mean when Stafford got his turn as highest paid everyone clowned it. But Stafford had started over 100 straight games with good results. You know what he is (even if it isn't all-pro caliber). Jimmy is unproven. And I mean, again not that I want ownership to be dicks about it but you're signing him to $90 million over his first 3 years when you could have franchised for 3 straight years for less than that.

    I dunno. It's good. It's just a lot for 7 starts.


  18. #18
    GP OG Percussion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    juicy junior, real juicy
    Posts
    9,701
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    211329
    maldives
    JG has shown far more than Kaep of the things that make qbs sustainably successful in the league, ie reading defenses and making accurate throws from the pocket, and without having to keep defenses honest with the threat of rpo-type plays that can ultimately be accounted for with an inaccurate non-pocket proficient qb.

    And as valuable as actual game time is I'd say more goes into signing a qb long term than just what's happened in however many starts.

  19. #19
    UNSTOPPABLE. UNBEATABLE. Judas Iscariot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Queens
    Posts
    32,092
    Mentioned
    17 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    122220
    usa
    *cough* Brock Osweiler *cough*

  20. #20
    hey Matthew's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Posts
    50,111
    Mentioned
    39 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    401253
    bring in matt flynn

  21. #21
    GP OG Percussion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    juicy junior, real juicy
    Posts
    9,701
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    211329
    maldives
    Quote Originally Posted by Judas Iscariot View Post
    *cough* Brock Osweiler *cough*
    *cough* inaccurate and can't read a defense for shit *cough*

  22. #22
    Donde esta la biblioteca Pablo Diablo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Canada, Eh?
    Posts
    23,262
    Mentioned
    26 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    137979
    canada

  23. #23
    World Champion
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    10,075
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    66639
    Where do you guys think Cousins ends up? Jets, Broncos, Vikings, Jags, Cardinals? No clue but Vikings would make the most sense if Cousins wants to win now.

    Do the Cowboys release Dez and sign another receiver like Sanders, Landry, or Watkins in his place? Do they resign Lawrence? I think Cowboys release Dez and sign Sanders. They franchise Lawrence.

    Do the Giants make Beckham the highest paid WR? Do the Steelers make Bell the highest paid RB? I say yes to both of these

    Do the Eagles trade Foles for a 1st or 2nd rounder and free up cap space to sign a starter? I wouldn't mind trading Foles for one of the Bills first rounders but then again he would be nice insurance to have for Wentz.

    Do the Browns finally get a qb? Who drafts Barkley?

    Lots of great storylines.

  24. #24
    Rising Down Fro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Posts
    25,817
    Blog Entries
    2
    Mentioned
    59 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    140641
    Where do you guys think Cousins ends up? Jets, Broncos, Vikings, Jags, Cardinals? No clue but Vikings would make the most sense if Cousins wants to win now.
    Broncos. I think the Vikings will work out a deal with Keenum - he's much cheaper. Is Carson Palmer still playing?

    Do the Cowboys release Dez and sign another receiver like Sanders, Landry, or Watkins in his place? Do they resign Lawrence? I think Cowboys release Dez and sign Sanders. They franchise Lawrence.
    I think they keep Dez for one more year. No idea about Lawrence.

    Do the Giants make Beckham the highest paid WR? Do the Steelers make Bell the highest paid RB? I say yes to both of these
    Yes yes.

    Do the Eagles trade Foles for a 1st or 2nd rounder and free up cap space to sign a starter? I wouldn't mind trading Foles for one of the Bills first rounders but then again he would be nice insurance to have for Wentz.
    Keep him. Wentz suffered that knee injury very late in the year. You never know if he will be ready for the regular season.

    Do the Browns finally get a qb? Who drafts Barkley?
    I could see the Browns signing one of the Vikings castaways. Teddy or Bradford, or even Keenum if he doesn't re-sign.

  25. #25
    you either die a hero... Morrison's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    or live long enough to see yourself become a dumdum.
    Posts
    25,164
    Mentioned
    20 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    372381
    Palmer retired.

  26. #26
    Intercontinental Champion BigAl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    I live life on the edge...I tell angry women to relax
    Posts
    4,052
    Mentioned
    18 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    222638
    Kareem Hunt has been accused of "pushing and shoving" a woman out the door of his hotel room after finding out she was only 19. She hasn't pressed charges against him yet but he is considered a suspect on the police report. Hunt denies the allegations.

    So, this begs the question...what does the NFL do here? 6 game suspension like Zeke? 4 game suspension?

  27. #27
    Rising Down Fro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Posts
    25,817
    Blog Entries
    2
    Mentioned
    59 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    140641
    Quote Originally Posted by Morrison View Post
    Palmer retired.
    Right. So I would put Arizona right behind Denver to land Cousins. Of course we still need to find out if Washington will tag him to trade him or just let him walk. They might as well tag him and get something back even if that seems like a dick move.

    Quote Originally Posted by BigAle View Post
    Kareem Hunt has been accused of "pushing and shoving" a woman out the door of his hotel room after finding out she was only 19. She hasn't pressed charges against him yet but he is considered a suspect on the police report. Hunt denies the allegations.

    So, this begs the question...what does the NFL do here? 6 game suspension like Zeke? 4 game suspension?
    I doubt he gets anything. The account is very sketchy and thankfully for him in the NFL discipline musical chairs game, Zeke just got overpunished which means Hunt will probably get off light. They don't need to look tough on domestic violence right now since they already used Zeke for that.

  28. #28
    My dad pinned Mr Backlund Kneeneighbor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Wearing my scarlet letter with pride
    Posts
    13,730
    Mentioned
    22 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    54781
    ussr
    If they tag him he is getting a crazy high number for the year. $34 million and it all counts towards the cap this year. That is a hard number against the cap. Teams interested in him know that Washington cannot keep him for that with Alex also on the roster taking up $17 million against the cap.

    It should also be noted if someone trades for Cousins he can play out the year at $34 million and be a free agent the following year.

  29. #29
    Rising Down Fro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Posts
    25,817
    Blog Entries
    2
    Mentioned
    59 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    140641
    Yea it's a lot of moving parts. Theoretically you would need the trade partner to agree on compensation to the R-words and also agree with Cousins on a major extentsion prior to the tag-trade. If Cousins won't play ball (and why would he) then he could nix the plan. The question then becomes would any team trade for him at $34 mil / 1 year without a guarantee of an extension being reached? Maybe so. Either way, the R-words will need a trade partner locked in before tagging him.

  30. #30
    World Champion
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    10,075
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    66639
    I would be shocked if he gets tagged. Too much risk for the Redskins. What if nobody pulls the trigger on a trade. Aren't they then stuck with that cap hit?

  31. #31
    Rising Down Fro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Posts
    25,817
    Blog Entries
    2
    Mentioned
    59 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    140641
    Jimmy G's contract is a little less bonkers than what it seemed, as is usually the case. $48.7 million guaranteed, $74.1 million guaranteed for injury. Not that I think he'll be a bust but if he is, after 2 years they could cut him with only $4.2 million in dead cap. So they're tied for him for 2 years barring injury. Cap hits 37, 20, 26, 26, 27. If he lives up to the hype, those last 4 years will be very good value. They put a ton of the cap hit in year 1 since they have so much space.

  32. #32
    World Champion
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    10,075
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    66639
    Well knowing how things work out, if he outplays his contract, I can see him demanding the contract to be reworked. It seems like a contract is never really a contract no matter what.

  33. #33
    World Champion Bandit's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Long Beach
    Posts
    14,516
    Mentioned
    14 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    81492
    mozambique
    Where do you guys think Cousins ends up? Jets, Broncos, Vikings, Jags, Cardinals? No clue but Vikings would make the most sense if Cousins wants to win now.
    Honestly, I know I am way in the minority here, but I think CLE will get him.

    Do the Cowboys release Dez and sign another receiver like Sanders, Landry, or Watkins in his place? Do they resign Lawrence? I think Cowboys release Dez and sign Sanders. They franchise Lawrence.
    I think they will keep Dez, and shell out a huge contract for Lawrence. Off the wall bold prediction:
    one-for-one trade to SEA for Earl Thomas. While I could see it making sense for both sides, I know it isn't realistic.


    Do the Giants make Beckham the highest paid WR? Do the Steelers make Bell the highest paid RB? I say yes to both of these
    Yes x2

    Do the Eagles trade Foles for a 1st or 2nd rounder and free up cap space to sign a starter? I wouldn't mind trading Foles for one of the Bills first rounders but then again he would be nice insurance to have for Wentz.
    I agree with Fro. Although, if Wentz is healthy early in the season, I can definitely see a potential playoff team whose star QB goes down (prior to trade deadline) giving up a bunch for him. But otherwise, under normal circumstances, I don't think they get more than a 2nd rd pick if they trade him. Whereas if they keep him all season, they have bonafide insurance, and will likely get a 3rd round compensatory pick after he signs a big deal in FA the following season.

    Do the Browns finally get a qb? Who drafts Barkley?
    As mentioned above, I think they get Cousins, and then draft Mike White or someone to sit behind him. It would be Dorsey doing Dorsey thangs.

    Lots of great storylines.
    Agreed!

  34. #34
    you either die a hero... Morrison's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    or live long enough to see yourself become a dumdum.
    Posts
    25,164
    Mentioned
    20 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    372381
    we got a first and a fourth for sam fucking bradford. foles played better than bradford has, won a super bowl against tom brady and was the mvp of the game. granted, maybe the vikings were fools for giving up a first(they were), but the precedent is sent and this QB has actually proven something. everybody saying we could only realistically get a second round pick for him are silly.

  35. #35
    World Champion Bandit's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Long Beach
    Posts
    14,516
    Mentioned
    14 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    81492
    mozambique
    You bring up Sam bradford, I bring up:
    Alex smith (two 2nds, then a CB + 3rd)
    Jimmy G (2nd rounder)

    Alex smith was much more accomplished as a starting QB than Foles. Obviously Foles now has a ring and SB MVP honors, but if you think a team will trade more capital than what was received for Smith (on 2 separate occasions) for a QB who is entering his 7th season and has never played 16 games or thrown for more than 3000 yards in a season, then we are simply at a fundamental disagreement. Foles played great in relief of Wentz, don't get me wrong. But I just don't see his trade value eclipsing a 2nd round pick.

  36. #36
    World Champion Bandit's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Long Beach
    Posts
    14,516
    Mentioned
    14 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    81492
    mozambique
    Also, you mention precedence by the Sam Bradford trade. I disagree. Here are a list of QBs traded for 1st round picks in the last 5 or 10 years:
    Jay Cutler (Den to Chi)
    Carson Palmer (Cin to Oak)
    Sam Bradford (Phi to Min)
    There are probably a couple others I am forgetting, and with my luck, one will have won a SB recently... but I digress.

    Precedence would mean that GMs in 2018 would look at the trades above and think, "this is what I have to give up to bring home a championship."

    Whereas the examples above tell current GMs something much different imo.

  37. #37
    World Champion
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    10,075
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    66639
    Quote Originally Posted by Bandit View Post
    You bring up Sam bradford, I bring up:
    Alex smith (two 2nds, then a CB + 3rd)
    Jimmy G (2nd rounder)

    Alex smith was much more accomplished as a starting QB than Foles. Obviously Foles now has a ring and SB MVP honors, but if you think a team will trade more capital than what was received for Smith (on 2 separate occasions) for a QB who is entering his 7th season and has never played 16 games or thrown for more than 3000 yards in a season, then we are simply at a fundamental disagreement. Foles played great in relief of Wentz, don't get me wrong. But I just don't see his trade value eclipsing a 2nd round pick.'
    The corner the Skins gave up for Smith was rated as one of the top slot corners in the league. The Chiefs were also shedding his salary so they didn't mind getting a 3rd and starter because of the salary dump.

    The Pats just wanted to give away Jimmy G at this point. They were offered MUCH MORE by Cleveland.

  38. #38
    World Champion Bandit's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Long Beach
    Posts
    14,516
    Mentioned
    14 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    81492
    mozambique
    And I would bet both QBs (Smith Jimmy G) would be rated much higher than Foles among the GMs in the NFL.

    I stand firm that I can't imagine PHI receiving anything beyond the 2nd round in draft pick value for Foles. All we can do at this point is wait and see.

  39. #39
    Rising Down Fro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Posts
    25,817
    Blog Entries
    2
    Mentioned
    59 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    140641
    If Foles gets traded for a 1st round pick I'll eat my hat

  40. #40
    World Champion
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    10,075
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    66639
    Quote Originally Posted by Bandit View Post
    And I would bet both QBs (Smith Jimmy G) would be rated much higher than Foles among the GMs in the NFL.

    I stand firm that I can't imagine PHI receiving anything beyond the 2nd round in draft pick value for Foles. All we can do at this point is wait and see.
    Well it would depend on the team and where they are drafting. For example, I can see Buffalo, Jacksonville, or Minnesota doing it because they have a later first round pick and the Bills have two of them in the 20s. I can easily see number 21 for Foles. I also could see a 2nd and a 3rd for him too. I don't think the Jets, Broncos, or Cardinals would ever do that though.

  41. #41
    World Champion Bandit's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Long Beach
    Posts
    14,516
    Mentioned
    14 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    81492
    mozambique
    Wanna do an Avatar bet?

    If he gets traded for a 2nd round pick or less: you have to change your avater to a picture of my choosing for 1 week
    If he gets traded for a 1st round pick: I have to change my avatar to a picture of your choosing for 1 week
    If he doesn't get traded: fro has to change his avatar to Tom Brady riding a razor scooter while wearing ugg boots*

    *Stipulations are contingent exclusively on the agreement between Bandit & PurePlayer, and no one else.

    -edit- Just realized it was Morrison who initially engaged with me on this. Bet stands for both. If both accept, my loss would result in 1 week of an avatar of Morrison's choosing AND 1 week with an avatar of PurePlayer's choosing. And no trade means fro has to sport Brady wearing uggs for 2 weeks
    Last edited by Bandit; February 14th, 2018 at 1:37 PM.

  42. #42
    you either die a hero... Morrison's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    or live long enough to see yourself become a dumdum.
    Posts
    25,164
    Mentioned
    20 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    372381
    i'm actually of the mind that he won't be traded. i just dont think a first is out of the question if he was.

  43. #43
    GP OG Percussion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    juicy junior, real juicy
    Posts
    9,701
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    211329
    maldives
    AJ McCarron wins grievance, will be unrestricted free agent

    Good news for McCarron and teams looking for an affordable, capable vet QB.

  44. #44
    World Champion Bandit's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Long Beach
    Posts
    14,516
    Mentioned
    14 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    81492
    mozambique
    Saw the vikings might be interested in McCarron. As a Packers fan, I am really hoping that is true.

  45. #45
    World Champion
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    10,075
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    66639
    what do teams see in him out of curiosity? I think the Browns were willing to deal a high pick for a backup.

  46. #46
    GP OG Percussion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    juicy junior, real juicy
    Posts
    9,701
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    211329
    maldives
    Composed, good arm, smart guy, aggressive downfield, coachable. He's not a franchise QB today, but the gamble is on whether you think with a little more live game time he can run your offense effectively. And he's not going to cost you what a Kirk Cousins will at this point.

  47. #47
    World Champion
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    10,075
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    66639
    So the Bengals didn't see more in him than Andy Dalton? The Browns tried offering a 2nd and 3rd round pick which tells me they see a lot in him especially knowing they are going to have their pick of qbs in this draft.

  48. #48
    GP OG Percussion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    juicy junior, real juicy
    Posts
    9,701
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    211329
    maldives
    Guess not. Not sure why I'd be using the Bengals as the litmus test though.

  49. #49
    GP OG Percussion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    juicy junior, real juicy
    Posts
    9,701
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    211329
    maldives
    Mike Mayock's 2018 NFL Draft position rankings


    Allen above Rosen is bananas to me.
    Guice is good, of course, but would take value over him at #2.
    Like seeing Hayden Hurst finally get some love.
    Still don't get the Davenport fascination.
    Vander Esch over Evans is just about inexplicable.
    I'd have Fitzpatrick as the #1 corner, as I think it's his better position, but this depends on d scheme of course.

  50. #50
    World Champion
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    10,075
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    66639
    I don't see why it's bananas to have Allen over Rosen. Allen has the better arm and can create plays. Rosen has durability issues and is more of a statue. Rosen might play for the bigger school but Allen played on a horrible team. His completion percentage is down but I think Allen has more of a potential similar to Wentz.

  51. #51
    GP OG Percussion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    juicy junior, real juicy
    Posts
    9,701
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    211329
    maldives
    What would you consider to be the two biggest assets for a qb?
    Last edited by percussion13; February 19th, 2018 at 12:08 PM.

  52. #52
    World Champion
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    10,075
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    66639
    Depends. I think being able to create plays when the pocket breaks down is a big asset not to mention arm strength and durability. Rosen has none of those. Accuracy can certainly depend on drops and the weapons around you which Allen had none of in Wyoming. I don't think Rosen is a sure thing at all. At this point, I would take Allen over him.
    Last edited by PurePlayer; February 19th, 2018 at 2:06 PM.

  53. #53
    GP OG Percussion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    juicy junior, real juicy
    Posts
    9,701
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    211329
    maldives
    I disagree. I'd argue accuracy and ability to process plays/defenses are far more vital to consistent productive qb play. And Rosen has Allen on both of those in spades.

    Allen's poor completion percentage was clearly not dependent on drops or his teammates. I honestly can't believe anyone claiming so has watched much of his tape. The guy is scattershot as shit and for all of his athleticism he makes very hasty and poor decisions often under pressure. Meanwhile he often finds himself making throws from terrible positions (footwork, arm angle, etc) that result in bad results. Rosen on the other hand delivers the ball accurately consistently and can adapt to schemes both presnap and throughout the development of the play with composure. Again, this is in his game tape.

    Allen is tall, has a very good arm (strength wise), and is mobile. And these are pluses. And he came from a small school. These are also where the low hanging fruit comparison to Wentz ends.

  54. #54
    GP OG Percussion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    juicy junior, real juicy
    Posts
    9,701
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    211329
    maldives
    Arm strength is nice. But example after example after example over years of talent evals has shown this to be a lower priority than many other attributes.

  55. #55
    World Champion
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    10,075
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    66639
    Quote Originally Posted by percussion13 View Post
    I disagree. I'd argue accuracy and ability to process plays/defenses are far more vital to consistent productive qb play. And Rosen has Allen on both of those in spades.

    Allen's poor completion percentage was clearly not dependent on drops or his teammates. I honestly can't believe anyone claiming so has watched much of his tape. The guy is scattershot as shit and for all of his athleticism he makes very hasty and poor decisions often under pressure. Meanwhile he often finds himself making throws from terrible positions (footwork, arm angle, etc) that result in bad results. Rosen on the other hand delivers the ball accurately consistently and can adapt to schemes both presnap and throughout the development of the play with composure. Again, this is in his game tape.

    Allen is tall, has a very good arm (strength wise), and is mobile. And these are pluses. And he came from a small school. These are also where the low hanging fruit comparison to Wentz ends.
    Those were also the critiques on Wentz. He couldn't read defenses, played in a small school, and wasn't accurate. Rosen is a prototypical qb but has durability concerns. I think Allen has much more potential to be something special. Allen could definitely use a year on the bench with work from his coaches on improving some things like his footwork and accuracy. You can't argue that Allen didn't have much to play with. he played for a Wyoming team that got crushed by San Jose State which was one of the worst teams in college football. Now granted Allen didn't play that game, it just shows the team was terrible.

  56. #56
    GP OG Percussion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    juicy junior, real juicy
    Posts
    9,701
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    211329
    maldives
    Quote Originally Posted by PurePlayer View Post
    Those were also the critiques on Wentz. He couldn't read defenses, played in a small school, and wasn't accurate. Rosen is a prototypical qb but has durability concerns. I think Allen has much more potential to be something special. Allen could definitely use a year on the bench with work from his coaches on improving some things like his footwork and accuracy. You can't argue that Allen didn't have much to play with. he played for a Wyoming team that got crushed by San Jose State which was one of the worst teams in college football. Now granted Allen didn't play that game, it just shows the team was terrible.
    What? Wentz was drawing rave reviews for his ability to diagnose plays/defenses, and for his accuracy both in the pocket and on the move. Don't have a clue where you're getting that.

    I can argue that even if Allen didn't have much to play with he wasn't playing against much. He should have produced much better tape. There are no special qbs with very real accuracy concerns. And accuracy, like we've seen over many years, isn't something that just comes along once a youngster hits the league.

  57. #57
    World Champion
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    10,075
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    66639
    Wentz had a 62% completion percentage in college so not sure what you are talking about there. His completion percentage was an issue in the draft. I remember following him throughout the draft two years ago because the Eagles moved up for him. Heck, I would argue his completion percentage still isn't the greatest, but it is getting better which goes against your theory.

    We have seen a ton of these prototypical pocket passers like Rosen amount to nothing. He certainly has the tools to be very good. I just think Allen has a much higher ceiling.

  58. #58
    World Champion
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    10,075
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    66639
    The move the sticks podcast even mentioned that Allen is drawing more and more comparisons to Wentz because of his arm, size, ability to extend plays, and his completion percentage in school.

  59. #59
    GP OG Percussion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    juicy junior, real juicy
    Posts
    9,701
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    211329
    maldives
    62% is not bad in the offense they were running at NDST. They didn't run a ton of check downs, bubble screens, and outs. I followed him probably as early as anyone while he was still considered a mid round pick at best sometime at the beginning of the '15 season. Was singing his praises here shortly there after in fact, so I don't know why you're telling me when you followed him as though it's a race. And my 'theory' on accuracy wasn't that Wentz's was necessarily the best, it was that Allen's is atrocious at times. Huge difference. Wentz hits the benchmark for what you need out of consistent successful qb play, Allen is nothing but concerns at this point. And concerns over a skillset that has hardly ever shown improvement at the pro level through years and years and years of scouting and talent eval.

    A lot of people are making the lazy comparison from Allen to Wentz. So what? It's as dull a comparison as saying that every black qb must be compared to some black qb before them. And it plays because people find it easy to grasp irrespective of it's accuracy.

  60. #60
    World Champion
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    10,075
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    66639
    WEAKNESSES

    When rolling out, will float it a little too much when taking shots down the field. Allows passing windows to close quickly when he short* arms his release. Needs a little more consistency on anticipatory throws outside the hash. Will get caught locking in on target bringing secondary charging in to make a play on the ball. Inconsistent footwork from the pocket. Arm gets ahead of his feet even with time to come to balance. Needs to pick up pace of his post-*snap setup. Has to put a little extra air on his field-*side throws. Can be a little flat with his downfield, touch throws. Has to eliminate the occasional nonchalant throw into tight quarters.

    That was Carson's scouting report regarding his weaknesses. Almost sounds similar to what you said about Allen tbh.

  61. #61
    World Champion
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    10,075
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    66639
    Quote Originally Posted by percussion13 View Post
    62% is not bad in the offense they were running at NDST. They didn't run a ton of check downs, bubble screens, and outs. I followed him probably as early as anyone while he was still considered a mid round pick at best sometime at the beginning of the '15 season. Was singing his praises here shortly there after in fact, so I don't know why you're telling me when you followed him as though it's a race. And my 'theory' on accuracy wasn't that Wentz's was necessarily the best, it was that Allen's is atrocious at times. Huge difference. Wentz hits the benchmark for what you need out of consistent successful qb play, Allen is nothing but concerns at this point. And concerns over a skillset that has hardly ever shown improvement at the pro level through years and years and years of scouting and talent eval.

    A lot of people are making the lazy comparison from Allen to Wentz. So what? It's as dull a comparison as saying that every black qb must be compared to some black qb before them. And it plays because people find it easy to grasp irrespective of it's accuracy.
    and your comment about the game tape is dull as shit too. Sometimes it's more than just about the game tape. the ability to make game changing plays isn't as measurable which Allen did make in college. There are also questions about Rosen's love for football and his competitiveness. Something that isn't "in the tape."

    You questioned the comment I made about Wentz's accuracy saying it wasn't a concern. I was trying to tell you I followed it extensively to know that it was an issue.
    Last edited by PurePlayer; February 19th, 2018 at 3:37 PM.

  62. #62
    GP OG Percussion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    juicy junior, real juicy
    Posts
    9,701
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    211329
    maldives
    That doesn't read at all like my thoughts on Allen. Those are marks on Wentz in precise situations, not on his general ability to deliver the ball accurately consistently. Allen is scattershot of his own accord far, far more often than not.

    And here are the 'strengths' from that same report that you somehow just so happened to leave out ...

    Tall with an athletic, proportional build that is made for the NFL position. Played in a pro-*style attack with plenty of snaps under center. Asked to make NFL throws and showed he could do it. Stands tall in the pocket and delivers with a relatively high release point. Keeps ball high and tight in the pocket and can uncork it quickly with tight, sharp release and little wasted motion. Throws catchable ball with tight spiral. Naturally accurate passer. Sees lurking linebackers underneath and throws receivers open to safest spot in the passing window. Able to change arm slots and still throw a strike. Has plus deep ball accuracy and touch. Calm in pocket and has no problems sitting in and taking a hit to complete a pass. Excelled in structured passing attack that required him to read the entire field. Has athleticism to escape pressure and hurt defenses with his legs. Already able to feel pressure on the edges and slide around in pocket without dropping his eyes. Adept in play-*action game at selling fakes and quickly finding safeties to help determine where to go with the ball. Intelligent with long list of academic achievements. Should be able to process and handle an NFL playbook quickly. Can play pitch and catch all day long against zone coverage.
    Watch Allen's tape and tell me he deserves half of those praises.

  63. #63
    GP OG Percussion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    juicy junior, real juicy
    Posts
    9,701
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    211329
    maldives
    Quote Originally Posted by PurePlayer View Post
    and your comment about the game tape is dull as shit too. Sometimes it's more than just about the game tape. the ability to make game changing plays isn't as measurable which Allen did make in college. There are also questions about Rosen's love for football and his competitiveness. Something that isn't "in the tape."

    You questioned what I said about the comment I made about Wentz's accuracy saying it wasn't a concern. I was trying to tell you I followed it extensively to know that it was an issue.
    What did I say that was off about his tape?

    Game changing plays show up on tape too. And Allen's athleticism display this at times, I said as much already. No need to be disingenuous.

    I agree about Rosen's commitment questions. Have never said otherwise. I think they aren't quite the concern others do, but I get them as one generally speaking.

    And I refuted, as well as the scouting report you tried to use as evidence, that his (Wentz) accuracy wasn't graded overall a plus.

  64. #64
    World Champion
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    10,075
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    66639
    You mentioned the game tape quite a few times. I was countering saying, it's not all about the tape. In fact, most of Rosen's weaknesses besides his inability to extend plays are not measurable.

    I don't know what scouting report you found that piece in but I recall other reports about his inaccuracy as a qb. I don't doubt those reports though. I am sure some scouts found him accurate. I am just saying there were others that didn't. His 60% completion percentage this year echos that sentiment. I love Wentz and his ability as a qb but that is still something he is working on.

  65. #65
    GP OG Percussion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    juicy junior, real juicy
    Posts
    9,701
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    211329
    maldives
    It's from the exact same scouting report you quoted from.

  66. #66
    Rising Down Fro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Posts
    25,817
    Blog Entries
    2
    Mentioned
    59 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    140641
    Jarvis Landry gets the first franchise tag. Somewhat debatable whether he's worth it but I like Jarvis.

  67. #67
    World Champion
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    10,075
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    66639
    To go back to the Allen vs Rosen debate, Mel Kiper has Allen going 1 overall and Rosen as the 4th best qb in the draft and not even a top 10 selection. I know a lot of people don't really value his scouting but he does watch the same game tape as everyone else. It's really not that hard to believe that people would rate Allen over Rosen.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Fro View Post
    Jarvis Landry gets the first franchise tag. Somewhat debatable whether he's worth it but I like Jarvis.
    he's probably the best free agent receiver out there right? Maybe Allen Robinson but he is coming off an injury.

  68. #68
    World Champion Bandit's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Long Beach
    Posts
    14,516
    Mentioned
    14 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    81492
    mozambique
    Quote Originally Posted by Fro View Post
    Jarvis Landry gets the first franchise tag. Somewhat debatable whether he's worth it but I like Jarvis.
    Saw on twitter that MIA is paying more for Landry than NE is paying for the combination of Edelman, Amendola, and Hogan.

    Also, Landry had 112 catches for fewer than 1000 receiving yards. I believe he is the only WR in the history of the NFL to exceed 100 catches in a season but fail to average at least 10 yards per reception.

    To summarize: definitely not worth it imo.

  69. #69
    OK Red Champ
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Lansing, Michigan
    Posts
    2,489
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    10146
    Whomever gets picked by the Browns will be a bust, whether it be Allen, Rosen, Tom Brady, or Joe Montana. I think we can all agree on that.

  70. #70
    Rising Down Fro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Posts
    25,817
    Blog Entries
    2
    Mentioned
    59 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    140641
    Quote Originally Posted by Bandit View Post
    Saw on twitter that MIA is paying more for Landry than NE is paying for the combination of Edelman, Amendola, and Hogan.

    Also, Landry had 112 catches for fewer than 1000 receiving yards. I believe he is the only WR in the history of the NFL to exceed 100 catches in a season but fail to average at least 10 yards per reception.

    To summarize: definitely not worth it imo.
    well Amendola is a free agent so that's a little off but yea Edelman has a $4.2 mil cap hit and Hogan has $3.3 mil. Landry will get $16 million on the franchise tag if no extension is reached, so double the total of those two.

    I hope Amendola re-signs. Look at these playoff stats for him this year. Dude is a stud in the playoffs and perfect Edelman insurance. Granted Dola never stays healthy enough to do this over a full season.

  71. #71
    World Champion Bandit's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Long Beach
    Posts
    14,516
    Mentioned
    14 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    81492
    mozambique
    My bad, just revisited the tweet. It was Cooks, not Amendola. But that supports my point even more imo.

    @spotrac
    "Cooks + Edelman + Hogan = $15.9M
    Landry = $16.2M
    The franchise tag is tough to swallow in a hard cap system."

  72. #72
    Rising Down Fro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Posts
    25,817
    Blog Entries
    2
    Mentioned
    59 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    140641
    PFT reported they are open to trading him but my guess is extending him is their first choice. I agree it wouldn't be great for them to let him play out the tag with nearly 10% of their cap dedicated to him this year, given that he is just a possession receiver.

    Still, he's only 25 and he has 4000 yards in his first 4 seasons. That's nothing to sneeze at. His Y/R was probably down this year because he was on a shit passing offense. They were 28th in passer rating and 28th in Y/A.

  73. #73
    Andrey isnít here kdestiny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    The war can't touch us here
    Posts
    16,875
    Mentioned
    37 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    91286
    usa
    Yeah, Cutler averaged under 200 yards a game so I can't really blame Landry for his YPC

  74. #74
    World Champion Bandit's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Long Beach
    Posts
    14,516
    Mentioned
    14 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    81492
    mozambique
    I agree about him being a possession receiver, and I don't mean to scoff at him as a legitimate WR threat. But I definitely don't think he is worth 16.2mil, as that would pay him more than every WR in the league in 2018 except Dez Bryant (potentially, as he will be owed 16.5mil, but may be a cap casualty as a result) and Antonio Brown (17.675mil).

    For comparison, he would be paid more in 2018 than:
    Hopkins will earn 14mil (16mil avg/year)
    Green will earn 13.75mil (15mil avg/year)
    Julio will earn 12.9mil (14.25mil avg/year)

    I don't imagine trade suitors taking that on either, but who knows. Someone with a ton of cap space right now could frontload a big contract I guess.

    I think this could mean Allen robinson signs a way bigger contract than we would expect, depending on if some bigger names are cut or not (i.e. Dez, Demaryius Thomas, etc.).

  75. #75
    World Champion
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    10,075
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    66639
    Robinson coming off the injury could hurt his value a bit.

    Speaking of number 1 receivers, Alshon played with a torn rotator cuff all year! he suffered it in training camp and still had the season he had. That is pretty damn impressive.

  76. #76
    World Champion Bandit's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Long Beach
    Posts
    14,516
    Mentioned
    14 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    81492
    mozambique
    I read that today too. Remarkable.

  77. #77
    GP OG Percussion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    juicy junior, real juicy
    Posts
    9,701
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    211329
    maldives
    Quote Originally Posted by PurePlayer View Post
    To go back to the Allen vs Rosen debate, Mel Kiper has Allen going 1 overall and Rosen as the 4th best qb in the draft and not even a top 10 selection. I know a lot of people don't really value his scouting but he does watch the same game tape as everyone else. It's really not that hard to believe that people would rate Allen over Rosen.
    Kiper.

    Thanks, bud.

  78. #78
    World Champion Bandit's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Long Beach
    Posts
    14,516
    Mentioned
    14 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    81492
    mozambique
    Josh Allen was surrounded by scrubs. He will be a much better pro than a college QB imo. With that said, I have no idea how I would rank Darnold/Rosen/Allen/Mayfield.

    Mayfield is my favorite of all of them, but I know that sounds crazy.

  79. #79
    GP OG Percussion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    juicy junior, real juicy
    Posts
    9,701
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    211329
    maldives
    Quote Originally Posted by Bandit View Post
    Josh Allen was surrounded by scrubs.
    Who was he playing against?

  80. #80
    World Champion Bandit's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Long Beach
    Posts
    14,516
    Mentioned
    14 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    81492
    mozambique
    Quote Originally Posted by percussion13 View Post
    Who was he playing against?
    His own receivers and oline.

  81. #81
    World Champion Bandit's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Long Beach
    Posts
    14,516
    Mentioned
    14 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    81492
    mozambique
    Hey nevermind. Just looked and saw Rosens and Jacksons WR dropped like twice as many passes as Allen's WR's.

    *homer backing up into bushes*

  82. #82
    GP OG Percussion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    juicy junior, real juicy
    Posts
    9,701
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    211329
    maldives
    Quote Originally Posted by Bandit View Post
    His own receivers and oline.
    Odd take on defenses, but ok.

  83. #83
    World Champion Bandit's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Long Beach
    Posts
    14,516
    Mentioned
    14 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    81492
    mozambique
    My point, that I later walked back on, was that the quality of defense is not really material if the targets the QB is throwing to and/or the O-line blocking for him are worthless.

    But as I said above, I walked back from that point anyways.

  84. #84
    World Champion
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    10,075
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    66639
    The question asking about what defenses he played against makes me laugh. What does it matter? You have QBs coming from big name schools all the time that fail. You have guys like Big Ben, Flacco, and Wentz that came from smaller schools and look like studs. Baker Mayfield played against cupcake defenses in a spread offense but he's rated insanely high by certain scouts.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by percussion13 View Post
    Kiper.

    Thanks, bud.
    he knows more than you.

  85. #85
    GP OG Percussion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    juicy junior, real juicy
    Posts
    9,701
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    211329
    maldives
    What a cop out. Kiper has a long and pretty miserable track record at projecting qbs. Go check out his thoughts on Dan McGwire, Andre Ware, Akili Smith, Johnny Manziel, Ricky Stanzi, Jamarcus Russell, Jimmy Clausen, and my personal fav ... praising Ryan Leaf's attitude of all things, ďHis attitude will be an asset in the NFL and give him a mental advantage over other players in his draft class. I think Ryan Leaf is more mature than Drew Bledsoe [when he was drafted], heís very much a grown-up, 21-year old."

    There's a reason ESPN has for years been trying to squeeze him out of air time in favor of Todd McShay. But he's been a recognizable tv personality for forever now and so the masses just eat his mumbo jumbo up as gospel and so of course he 'knows more' than other people. Ok.

  86. #86
    World Champion
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    10,075
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    66639
    Kiper isn't the only one that has Allen rated over Rosen though. In your original post, Mayock ranked Allen higher. So clearly anyone that says this is wrong.

    You named certain players but how many drafts and players has this guy covered? A TON. He didn't draft those players either. So obviously other scouts liked those players enough to draft them in the first round.

  87. #87
    GP OG Percussion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    juicy junior, real juicy
    Posts
    9,701
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    211329
    maldives
    I'm aware of Mayock's ranking, seeing as I posted it. And I happen to agree with him often, but not always. And he's one guy who watches these kids like many many others, and they all hit and miss, so his word isn't infallible. You're allowed to watch and think for yourself.

    I don't care how many he's (Kiper) watched and covered. He's wrong far more often than not and he's been challenged by guys like Bill Polian, Ozzie Newsome, etc because he's frankly a hack.

    And my whole point to begin with is simply that after watching Allen play in several games I'm surprised people would prefer him to Rosen. I followed that up with valid reasons. You disagree, great. But saying that the kid is a whole lot of physical promise right now with a lot of qb'ing left to grow into with a couple of red flag concerns from the position isn't out of bounds given his tape, imo. Bit surprised you'd take his criticism so personally.

  88. #88
    World Champion
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    10,075
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    66639
    How am I taking it personally lol? I came here and disagreed and gave reasons as to why. It's a debate back and forth. Nothing personal here.

  89. #89
    GP OG Percussion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    juicy junior, real juicy
    Posts
    9,701
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    211329
    maldives
    If you gave a good reason to ignore Allen's consistent inaccuracy or his panic play under pressure I must have missed it.

    Other than that you told me that Kiper (which I pointed out means spit) and Mayock like him. Ok.

    And I don't hate Allen overall, just wouldn't take him with a top of the first pick and wouldn't take him at all over Rosen (or Darnold for that matter).

    Read a player comp recently for Allen to Jake Locker, and I think that fits pretty well. And I liked Locker coming out. My comp for him has been a bit smaller David Carr.

  90. #90
    OK Red Champ
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Lansing, Michigan
    Posts
    2,489
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    10146
    Its 50/50 business, like guys who pick stocks in the short term. Honestly, why you guys care what any of these so called "experts" or"draft gurus" think is kinda stupid, in my opinion. The best guys are right 55 percent of the time and the worst are right 45 percent of the time.

    If you actually watched these guys play more than 10 games in college and have a thoughtful opinion that is great and I'd love to hear it, but honestly I feel like most of these debates are pointless when most of us have probably only watched these guys 2-3 times actually play a full game and the rest of our "knowledge" is just hearsay and watching highlight reels.

  91. #91
    World Champion
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    10,075
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    66639
    Quote Originally Posted by percussion13 View Post
    If you gave a good reason to ignore Allen's consistent inaccuracy or his panic play under pressure I must have missed it.

    Other than that you told me that Kiper (which I pointed out means spit) and Mayock like him. Ok.

    And I don't hate Allen overall, just wouldn't take him with a top of the first pick and wouldn't take him at all over Rosen (or Darnold for that matter).

    Read a player comp recently for Allen to Jake Locker, and I think that fits pretty well. And I liked Locker coming out. My comp for him has been a bit smaller David Carr.
    I gave about 5 reasons but ok.

    1. Great size
    2. creative
    3. extends plays
    4. durable
    5. leadership qualities
    6. strong arm
    7. played on a poor team
    8. ran pro style offense

  92. #92
    GP OG Percussion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    juicy junior, real juicy
    Posts
    9,701
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    211329
    maldives
    Though those don't dismiss the critical issues I was specifically talking about they are good attributes, for the most part. They're also why I don't think he's a poor prospect on the whole.

  93. #93
    World Champion
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    10,075
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    66639
    i agree there are issues with him for sure and Rosen might be the most ready. My only disagreement with you is that I see more upside in him than Rosen. we can agree to disagree on that

  94. #94
    World Champion Bandit's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Long Beach
    Posts
    14,516
    Mentioned
    14 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    81492
    mozambique
    So how about Jonathan Martin... *awkwardly tugs collar*

  95. #95
    you either die a hero... Morrison's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    or live long enough to see yourself become a dumdum.
    Posts
    25,164
    Mentioned
    20 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    372381
    Quote Originally Posted by Bandit View Post
    So how about Jonathan Martin... *awkwardly tugs collar*
    I'm not really understanding what is going on with this. i haven't seen the photo, but the way I'm reading the post is that he's calling bully victims that commit suicide or revenge killings cowards. he probably should have been more eloquent given the current climate, but i don't know why it's being taken as a threar or why he was taken into custody over it, unless i am completely misinterpreting the details. was he calling himself a coward and making vague, veiled threats toward incognito and pouncey? that seems like a stretch.
    Last edited by Morrison; February 23rd, 2018 at 6:24 PM.

  96. #96
    GP OG Percussion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    juicy junior, real juicy
    Posts
    9,701
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    211329
    maldives
    The red flag is his inclusion of the people that bullied him. It's strange all the way around with no context.

  97. #97
    GP OG Percussion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    juicy junior, real juicy
    Posts
    9,701
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    211329
    maldives

  98. #98
    World Champion Bandit's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Long Beach
    Posts
    14,516
    Mentioned
    14 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    81492
    mozambique
    Quote Originally Posted by Morrison View Post
    I'm not really understanding what is going on with this. i haven't seen the photo, but the way I'm reading the post is that he's calling bully victims that commit suicide or revenge killings cowards. he probably should have been more eloquent given the current climate, but i don't know why it's being taken as a threar or why he was taken into custody over it, unless i am completely misinterpreting the details. was he calling himself a coward and making vague, veiled threats toward incognito and pouncey? that seems like a stretch.
    I think you might be misinterpreting the details...

    He posted a picture of a loaded shotgun and a bunch of accompanying shells, saying that when you are a victim of bullying and also a coward your only options are suicide or revenge. Then posted the names of people who bullied him and the name of a school.

    I think the common way to interpret that is
    1) He is identifying himself as a bullying victim and coward
    2) He is either going to commit suicide with this shotgun and wants these bullies and school to know, or is going to seek revenge with this shotgun and the bullies and school are his targets.

  99. #99
    GP OG Percussion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    juicy junior, real juicy
    Posts
    9,701
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    211329
    maldives
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Boombastic View Post
    Its 50/50 business, like guys who pick stocks in the short term. Honestly, why you guys care what any of these so called "experts" or"draft gurus" think is kinda stupid, in my opinion. The best guys are right 55 percent of the time and the worst are right 45 percent of the time.

    If you actually watched these guys play more than 10 games in college and have a thoughtful opinion that is great and I'd love to hear it, but honestly I feel like most of these debates are pointless when most of us have probably only watched these guys 2-3 times actually play a full game and the rest of our "knowledge" is just hearsay and watching highlight reels.
    I've watched 7 games of Allen's myself going back to last season. The only other influence that I've had on my opinion of him that I'd consider worthwhile is Zeirlien and Mayock.

    And when it comes to taking into account the human element of a youngster entering and finding his place in the league and all that brings I'd agree more or less that the success rate for projection on the entirety of the draft becomes pretty hit or miss. I'd say obviously in the earlier rounds this accuracy goes up just on talent difference alone. However I'd argue taking that element out and simply projecting what guys can/can't do both physically and from a football iq standpoint is much easier to do. And I'd say the accuracy rate for earlier rounds is well above 50/50, with later rounds obviously diminishing from there as talent becomes a bit more homogeneous.

  100. #100
    GP OG Percussion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    juicy junior, real juicy
    Posts
    9,701
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    211329
    maldives
    Quote Originally Posted by Percussion View Post
    Just following up on this..

    Chiefs' haul surprisingly small in Marcus Peters trade, includes no first-round picks

    The deal in full:

    Rams get: CB Marcus Peters, 2018 sixth-round pick

    Chiefs get: 2018 fourth-round pick, 2019 second-round pick
    Everyone knew the likelihood of Peters being a mountain of a headache personality-wise since his days at UW, so not the biggest shocker there. Seeing that play out so tangibly is kind of eye-opening though.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •