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Thread: 2018 NFL Thread

  1. #101
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    I couldn't believe that when i saw it earlier.

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    Wilkerson and Jonathan Stewart released. No big surprise.

    Forte retires. Had he been on a better team I think he would've gotten way more credit than he did.

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    10 days until the wildness of the legal tampering period.

    I don't expect the Pats to make much of a splash in free agency after signing Gilmore last year. They should try to re-sign Nate Solder, Danny Amendola and maybe Rex Burkhead. Dion Lewis probably will move on to greener pastures. Butler of course will be gone. People are speculating that Richard Sherman or Aquib Talib could be acquired.... the former likely via trade, the latter probably only if he's cut and hits free agency because I can't imagine the Broncos giving him up to their conference rival.

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    Saquon Barkley at 233 lbs ran a 4.41, had a 41" vertical, and bench pressed more than all but OL guys.

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    Gronk coming out and confirming Lane Johnson's comments from a few weeks ago. Maybe it's stupid to say but I wonder if all these reports coming out and how Butler was treated will impact free agents wanting to play there. Just a thought

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    I am starting to think the Browns would be smart to take Barkley at 1 and then a qb at 4. The Colts won't be taking a qb and the Giants seemed to imply that they won't take one. Even if they do take a qb the Browns will have their pick of the other ones at 4.

    I personally think it would be dumb for the Giants to take Barkley at 2. They have zero oline, linebackers stink, d-line is getting old and secondary has Jenkins and Collins, that's it. Say they go 10-6 or whatever the next two years just with offense alone, what is going to happen when Manning is gone and they are stuck in the 20s in the draft. They will be left without a qb and would be cooked when they have all these offensive players in their prime.

  7. #107
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    I think the Browns need to find a way to give Cousins an offer he cannot refuse. They need to do whatever it takes to get him.

    Then take Barkley #1, and at #4, take either Chubb/Fitzpatrick/Nelson (if CLE picked Barkley #1, NYG and/or IND could trade back with DEN and/or NYJ, who would likely take Darnold/Rosen).

    That scenario could yield CLE adding Cousins, Barkley, and Chubb. That would be a distinctive turning point for that franchise imo.

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by PurePlayer View Post
    Gronk coming out and confirming Lane Johnson's comments from a few weeks ago. Maybe it's stupid to say but I wonder if all these reports coming out and how Butler was treated will impact free agents wanting to play there. Just a thought
    Gronk said what now

  9. #109
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    What did Lane Johnson say that Gronk confirmed? Gronk should just go to GB.

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    Patriots are a fear based organization.

    ď[Gronk] didnít enjoy himself in 2017. He did not have a good time, despite the fact that his body was in a better situation than itís been in a long time ó ever, maybe ó and despite the fact that he was one of the most dominant players at any skill position. Itís starting to wear on him ó physically, mentally, the atmosphere here in New England.Ē
    [...]
    ďFirst and foremost isnít health necessarily. Itís all meshed together. The first and foremost is, if the climate was different, if he was having a better time, if he felt more valued ó whether it be financially or personally ó I think that we might not be having this conversation. But all the things rolled together have kind of hit a tipping point for him.Ē

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    those are comments from talk show host Tom E Curran who has a 3 hour nightly tv show. a bit different than gronk coming out and confirming something.

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    Prediction: Gronk is in the WWE by the end of 2020

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fro View Post
    those are comments from talk show host Tom E Curran who has a 3 hour nightly tv show. a bit different than gronk coming out and confirming something.
    Hasn't Curran been a legit insider for that team for years? Who else outside of a player/coach on the team, would have more credibility in such statements?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fro View Post
    those are comments from talk show host Tom E Curran who has a 3 hour nightly tv show. a bit different than gronk coming out and confirming something.
    He said Gronk said these things. Donít you think Gronk would have said this isnít true? Itís pretty much confirmed he said this. Not only that, the way the Butler situation thing was handled doesnít help matters either

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    Quote Originally Posted by PurePlayer View Post
    He said Gronk said these things. Don’t you think Gronk would have said this isn’t true? It’s pretty much confirmed he said this. Not only that, the way the Butler situation thing was handled doesn’t help matters either
    He said Gronk said these things? I think not. Curran's sources could be anyone. People in Gronk's camp. Locker room attendants. Or most likely just his own observations from covering the team all year. I'm not trying to play semantics here but to say "Gronk came out and confirmed Lane Johnson's comments from a few weeks ago" is very false. He hasn't said anything publicly and it's highly doubtful he's said anything privately to reporters either.

    But to your point, no, I don't think this will impact free agents wanting to sign there. Especially in the wake of the reports that Sherman and Talib are both receptive to coming here. Besides, the Patriots don't usually go after big free agents. They stick to the scrap heap and scrap heap guys aren't going to be dissuaded by Malcolm Butler being benched. Undrafted Malcolm Butler is going to make a ton of money this offseason because of the Patriots. So is Dion Lewis.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fro View Post
    He said Gronk said these things? I think not. Curran's sources could be anyone. People in Gronk's camp. Locker room attendants. Or most likely just his own observations from covering the team all year. I'm not trying to play semantics here but to say "Gronk came out and confirmed Lane Johnson's comments from a few weeks ago" is very false. He hasn't said anything publicly and it's highly doubtful he's said anything privately to reporters either.
    Obviously you wonít agree because you are a pats fan. Curran is a pretty good reporter from what I understand. Surely someone would have come out and disputed this by now

  17. #117
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    I remember this debate recently and someone said they didn't understand why people where assuming Foles' trade value was a 2nd round pick.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.yah...172656818.html

    Granted, it's not confirmed by any of the teams involved, obviously, and there is still time for his trade value to increase (i.e. injuries to star QBs etc.), but it appears this is roughly the current measurement of Foles' trade value.

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    and word is that the eagles basic answer to any trade inquiries is that to get foles they'll have to do better than the first and fourth it took to get bradford, and if they're not accepting offers for a second rounder, then hmm.

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bandit View Post
    I remember this debate recently and someone said they didn't understand why people where assuming Foles' trade value was a 2nd round pick.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.yah...172656818.html

    Granted, it's not confirmed by any of the teams involved, obviously, and there is still time for his trade value to increase (i.e. injuries to star QBs etc.), but it appears this is roughly the current measurement of Foles' trade value.
    Well Nick Foles hasn't been traded for said offer so no it appears it's not.

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    When I saw this guy for the first time in the Peach Bowl, he convinced me he is going to be a beast in the NFL. That kind of determination goes very far in an emotional sport like football.

  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Torn View Post
    Well Nick Foles hasn't been traded for said offer so no it appears it's not.
    I think we have a fundamental disagreement with what constitutes trade value.

    If teams are offering a 7th round pick for a player, but that player's team won't give him up unless they receive a 1st round draft pick, is that player's VALUE a 7th round pick or a 1st round pick?

    Foles' shelf price might be a 1st round pick, but he's only worth what people are willing to pay for him. And as of now... there's no indication that it's anything more than a 2nd round pick. Obviously this doesn't mean that the information is solid, and I'm not saying his value is a 2nd round pick with certainty, only saying that this nugget of info/rumor supports those of us who estimated his value to be a 2nd round pick.
    Last edited by Bandit; March 5th, 2018 at 9:32 PM.

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    literally no one gives a shit about this but you.

    but of course a team, a week into the off season, isn't going to have their first offer be their best offer. but if you need this incredibly small and possibly temporary victory, by all means.

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    There are about 8 or so, depending on one's definition, can't miss studs in this draft,

    Quenton Nelson
    Saquon Barkley
    Bradley Chubb
    Minkah Fitzpatrick
    Calvin Ridley
    Derwin James
    Vita Vea
    Denzel Ward

    Which is an interesting number relative to the unusual number of qbs looking to be taken high in this draft and the danger rate of that position drafted early,

    Sam Darnold
    Josh Rosen
    Josh Allen
    Baker Mayfield
    Lamar Jackson

    Will be thoroughly interesting to look back in just a couple/few years and see who regrets going need over bpa, and at the most critical need position, in this one.
    Last edited by Percussion; March 6th, 2018 at 12:38 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Morrison View Post
    literally no one gives a shit about this but you.

    but of course a team, a week into the off season, isn't going to have their first offer be their best offer. but if you need this incredibly small and possibly temporary victory, by all means.
    Your reading comprehension is bad. And you also don't know what the word "literally" means.

    A) The discussion was left open with like 5 people talking about it. And seeing as how we still don't know his trade value for certain, it is an ongoing discussion that will have future replies too.

    B) As stated in the post you quoted, and in the sentence above, I acknowledged that the trade value is still not set in stone. So whatever victory you think I am after hasn't been determined.

    You are reacting to this in a way that is much more indicative of giving a shit than anyone else.

    Prove me otherwise by shutting the fuck up. Or just reply reasonably in a way that is conducive to a discussion. Thx.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Percussion View Post
    There are about 7 or so, depending on one's definition, can't miss studs in this draft,

    Quenton Nelson
    Bradley Chubb
    Minkah Fitzpatrick
    Calvin Ridley
    Derwin James
    Vita Vea
    Denzel Ward

    Which is an interesting number relative to the unusual number of qbs looking to be taken high in this draft and the danger rate of that position drafted early,

    Sam Darnold
    Josh Rosen
    Josh Allen
    Baker Mayfield
    Lamar Jackson

    Will be thoroughly interesting to look back in just a couple/few years and see who regrets going need over bpa, and at the most critical need position, in this one.
    Are you saying this or scouts saying this? I think barkley is more can't miss than Ridley

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    Barkley is hands down the best football player in the draft

    according to some people I heard talking

  28. #128
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    There are a couple things the Browns can do here.

    Draft Barkley at 1 and then a qb at 4 and BPA in round 2.
    Draft Chubb at 1, a qb at 4, and then draft Ronald Jones or Guice early rd 2
    Draft a qb at 1, draft BPA between Chubb, Fitzpatrick, and Nelson at 4, and then Jones/Guice early round 2

    Am I wrong in thinking it's a given that if the Browns don't draft Barkley at 1 that the Giants will take him at 2?

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    Barkley will not make it to 4 that is for sure.

    I do not think Guice lasts until the start of round 2.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PurePlayer View Post
    Are you saying this or scouts saying this? I think barkley is more can't miss than Ridley
    I'm saying this. And I completely just goofed to not include Barkley there. I've got him equal to Nelson and Chubb.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PurePlayer View Post
    There are a couple things the Browns can do here.

    Draft Barkley at 1 and then a qb at 4 and BPA in round 2.
    Draft Chubb at 1, a qb at 4, and then draft Ronald Jones or Guice early rd 2
    Draft a qb at 1, draft BPA between Chubb, Fitzpatrick, and Nelson at 4, and then Jones/Guice early round 2

    Am I wrong in thinking it's a given that if the Browns don't draft Barkley at 1 that the Giants will take him at 2?
    I don't think you're wrong. I either read it somewhere or heard on dan patrick that NYG has ruled out taking a QB at #2. I suppose they could take Chubb too, but I think Barkley for sure goes top 3 as kneeneighbor said.

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    If the Browns don't covet one specific QB then Barkley almost has to be the move at 1 if they want to take best player available.

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    I'd say the Browns trading out of one of their top picks is one of the most likely outcomes. They can use one of their top picks, trade down to someone desperate, get a boat load back including another first rounder in this draft.

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    Teams could trade into the 2/3 spots looking for Rosen/Darnold/Allen leaving Barkley available at 4.

    Think Indy has to give Chubb very serious consideration at 3 as well.

    But if Clev can't make their minds up on a particular qb here then taking Barkley 1 overall and letting the chips fall would be solid. That's only if they haven't identified a qb strongly here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bandit View Post
    Your reading comprehension is bad. And you also don't know what the word "literally" means.

    A) The discussion was left open with like 5 people talking about it. And seeing as how we still don't know his trade value for certain, it is an ongoing discussion that will have future replies too.

    B) As stated in the post you quoted, and in the sentence above, I acknowledged that the trade value is still not set in stone. So whatever victory you think I am after hasn't been determined.

    You are reacting to this in a way that is much more indicative of giving a shit than anyone else.

    Prove me otherwise by shutting the fuck up. Or just reply reasonably in a way that is conducive to a discussion. Thx.
    fuck off. you being a petty shit is annoying. theres nothing to fucking discuss, and there won't be until a trade actually fucking happens. LITERALLY NO ONE besides you seems to care if they're wrong here besides you. you didn't see me or anyone else jumping in here citing the article about the eagles looking for a trade of equal or better value than the bradford one, until you brought the boring topic back up. even though all i ever said is that the bradford deal sets precedent, and that's exactly what the eagles are saying too. who wants to have a discussion with someone who moves the goalposts. oh his value is a second rounder according to one random unnamed team early in the off-season before free agency and the draft when low ball offers are king, so that supports my claim right now, but obviously that can change. lovely, wonderful discussion. riveting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fro View Post
    I'd say the Browns trading out of one of their top picks is one of the most likely outcomes. They can use one of their top picks, trade down to someone desperate, get a boat load back including another first rounder in this draft.
    Usually a big fan of trading down. But the Browns have 3 2's, a 3rd, and 2 4's in this draft alone following 1 and 4 overall. They're good on picks and in an unusually rare position to take gamechanging talent here with a full on safety net in place for later.

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    1989 Cowboys come to mind.

  38. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fro View Post
    I'd say the Browns trading out of one of their top picks is one of the most likely outcomes. They can use one of their top picks, trade down to someone desperate, get a boat load back including another first rounder in this draft.
    They can only use so many picks though. How many do they need? Eventually they need to just use them on game changing playmakers.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Percussion View Post
    Teams could trade into the 2/3 spots looking for Rosen/Darnold/Allen leaving Barkley available at 4.

    Think Indy has to give Chubb very serious consideration at 3 as well.

    But if Clev can't make their minds up on a particular qb here then taking Barkley 1 overall and letting the chips fall would be solid. That's only if they haven't identified a qb strongly here.
    I don't think he will be there at 4. It could be a smokescreen but I don't think the Giants trade anyone if Barkley is there.

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    Ok.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Morrison View Post
    fuck off. you being a petty shit is annoying. theres nothing to fucking discuss, and there won't be until a trade actually fucking happens. LITERALLY NO ONE besides you seems to care if they're wrong here besides you. you didn't see me or anyone else jumping in here citing the article about the eagles looking for a trade of equal or better value than the bradford one, until you brought the boring topic back up. even though all i ever said is that the bradford deal sets precedent, and that's exactly what the eagles are saying too. who wants to have a discussion with someone who moves the goalposts. oh his value is a second rounder according to one random unnamed team early in the off-season before free agency and the draft when low ball offers are king, so that supports my claim right now, but obviously that can change. lovely, wonderful discussion. riveting.
    Dude. Literally no one gives a shit but you about whatever you just posted (I didn't read it)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Percussion View Post
    Usually a big fan of trading down. But the Browns have 3 2's, a 3rd, and 2 4's in this draft alone following 1 and 4 overall. They're good on picks and in an unusually rare position to take gamechanging talent here with a full on safety net in place for later.
    I agree. They have the trove of picks already. With 1 and 4, you could select TWO franchise players that have low risk. It's that reason - and CLE's drafting history of QBs - that I think Barkley would make sense. Knowing the Browns, if they pick Darnold, then he will be a bust and Rosen will go on to have an illustrious career. But if they pick Rosen, then it will be the other way around haha.

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    Ask Tommy Vardell, Williams Green, or Trent Richardson their history with drafting rb's early too. They've just stunk at talent evaluation for decades irrespective of position.

    They're under new management now anyway with John Dorsey, Alonzo Highsmith, and Eliot Wolf. Best bet is to trust their own evals, not give a shit about Cleve's past, and just take who they best feel fits their systems moving forward. If that's Darnold or Allen, so be it. If it's Chubb and Nelson at 1/4, so be that too. And of course Barkley and Fitzpatrick should be under just as strong a consideration there as well.

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    Having Chubb and Garrett on the line could be something. If the Browns can somehow pull off signing Cousins and then drafting Barkley and Chubb look out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Percussion View Post
    Ask Tommy Vardell, Williams Green, or Trent Richardson their history with drafting rb's early too. They've just stunk at talent evaluation for decades irrespective of position.

    They're under new management now anyway with John Dorsey, Alonzo Highsmith, and Eliot Wolf. Best bet is to trust their own evals, not give a shit about Cleve's past, and just take who they best feel fits their systems moving forward. If that's Darnold or Allen, so be it. If it's Chubb and Nelson at 1/4, so be that too. And of course Barkley and Fitzpatrick should be under just as strong a consideration there as well.
    Great point.

    Their new dudes come from an org that has prided itself on drafting too. So I guess I ought to remove my prior disposition for CLE to ruin their draft haul every year and see how it plays out haha.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bandit View Post
    Dude. Literally no one gives a shit but you about whatever you just posted (I didn't read it)
    awww, you poor, petty thing. you're the one who apparently wanted the conversation. I'm glad you realized no one really gives a fuck about Nick foles trade value and moved on.

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    Hey, like three posts ago I said if you really didn't give a shit, you could simply shut the fuck up lol. But yet here you are persisting. It's cute, man. Great little victory you're after!

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    Chris Mortensen reporting that PHI has fielded multiple offers for Foles now, but nothing commensurate to their asking price of what they got for Bradford.

    If the stalemate holds, where buyer's value never meets the seller's, then what Morrison initially predicted (Foles doesn't get traded) appears the most likely scenario @ this point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bandit View Post
    Hey, like three posts ago I said if you really didn't give a shit, you could simply shut the fuck up lol. But yet here you are persisting. It's cute, man. Great little victory you're after!
    what indication have you received that i give a shit about your suggestions? at this point it's about your lame excuse for bringing the subject back up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Morrison View Post
    what indication have you received that i give a shit about your suggestions? at this point it's about your lame excuse for bringing the subject back up.
    While other topics have been broached related to the draft that everyone else, including myself, have participated in, you have instead posted exclusively in response, ad nauseum, to something you say you don't give a fuck about.

    You can keep arguing. But doing so just simply means you give a shit. Shutting the fuck up was not a personal suggestion from me. It was a tip on how to properly not give a fuck, since it is a subject you clearly have trouble grasping.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bandit View Post
    While other topics have been broached related to the draft that everyone else, including myself, have participated in, you have instead posted exclusively in response, ad nauseum, to something you say you don't give a fuck about.

    You can keep arguing. But doing so just simply means you give a shit. Shutting the fuck up was not a personal suggestion from me. It was a tip on how to properly not give a fuck, since it is a subject you clearly have trouble grasping.
    do you not understand that this argument isn't about the thing i said i, nor anybody else judging by the lack of engaged responses, dont give a shit about? you're mixing the two up and going all straw man.

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    So anyways, Bell and Joyner both got hit with franchise tags today. Nothing too unexpected there. Bell has been semi-going off on Twitter (nothing too crazy, but clearly feels undervalued by the team for not rewarding him with the longterm deal he wants).

    And CHI hit Fuller with the transition tag. This is the tag BUF used on Hogan a few years ago and it bit them in the ass because NE gave Hogan an offer sheet that was laid out in a way BUF was not able to match. The difference here is that CHI has a ton of cap room, so if a team tried to do something similar, CHI would have the ability to match the offer and keep him there longterm if they chose to do so.

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    these dumb conversations are dumb when they arent about the patriots

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    I added a nice little NE nugget about the transition tag above from when BB bamboozled the bills.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bandit View Post
    I added a nice little NE nugget about the transition tag above from when BB bamboozled the bills.
    I was talking about the foles stuff, but you're wrong about Hogan. he didn't get the transition tag. he was an RFA and they put an "original round tender" on him. since he was undrafted, the pats didn't have to give the Bills any compensation when the Bills failed to match the contract. it's a similar scenario, but Hogan only got 1.5 million from the Bills as opposed to the transition tag which is big money.

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    Ah shit, you are indeed correct about Hogan.

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    Kirk Cousins going to take Minnesota to the promise land next year.

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    He is about the 20th best QB in the league. . .

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    I dare you to name 19 better than him.

    Kirk Cousin's last 3 seasons (played all 16 games each szn): 81 TDs, 36 INTs, 67% completion, 7.8 Y/A, 97.5 passer rating

    Aaron Rodgers Y/A over the last 3 years is 7.0 for comparison (98.4 passer rating). Brady is 7.9 Y/A (105 PR).

    Last year his best receivers were Jamison Crowder and Vernon Davis, with a run game that averaged 3.6 YPA. So he's doing it without a lot of help at the skill positions. I think his 3-year run has proven him to be at least consistently good. Very arguably a top 10 QB at the moment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fro View Post
    I dare you to name 19 better than him.

    Kirk Cousin's last 3 seasons (played all 16 games each szn): 81 TDs, 36 INTs, 67% completion, 7.8 Y/A, 97.5 passer rating

    Aaron Rodgers Y/A over the last 3 years is 7.0 for comparison (98.4 passer rating). Brady is 7.9 Y/A (105 PR).

    Last year his best receivers were Jamison Crowder and Vernon Davis, with a run game that averaged 3.6 YPA. So he's doing it without a lot of help at the skill positions. I think his 3-year run has proven him to be at least consistently good. Very arguably a top 10 QB at the moment.
    No way he is top 10:
    Rodgers
    Brady
    Brees
    Wentz
    Stafford
    Ryan
    Wilson
    Newton
    Big Ben
    Jimmy G
    Watson
    Goff
    Rivers

    Thats 13 for sure I would take over him today. He is right around Carr, Dalton and Alex Smith on my list. So that would bring him in around 17 off of the top of my head. Edit: forgot about Luck if healthy.

    Look at his stats by quarter and by down. Better on 1st down and 1st quarter than 3rd down and 4th quarter. HIs numbers are very similar to Dalton in that way.

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    Not really a fan of Cousins. I think he turns it over way too much and makes mistakes towards the end. See Eagles week 1 and Saints game this year. I can name 15 qb's i would rather have.

    Wentz
    Rodgers
    Ryan
    Newton
    Brees
    Stafford
    Wilson
    Jimmy G
    Goff
    Brady
    Mariota
    Luck
    Watson
    Rivers
    Big Ben

    He is right on line with Alex Smith and Derek Carr for me. Fro you can throw around those meaningless stats all you want. I go by the eye test and big spots in the game that Cousins comes up small

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    We had similar lists.

    They are going to give $31 million a year guaranteed to the 3rd best QB in the division.

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    it's crazy how much money this guy made and is going to make for never making the playoffs.

    The year Case Keenum had is right on line or better than anything Cousins ever did

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    Cousins has also ran for 13 TD's in the last 3 years (even I'm surprised by that stat). So he averages 31 TDs/12 INTs per year in that span. 4300 yards per year on average.

    If that plus being healthy isn't supposed to get you paid, what is?

    Keenum was on a great all around team and still stunk in the playoffs. Wentz was proven to be marginally better than Nick Foles. Matt Ryan had one MVP year surrounded by tons of being just solid. Mariota stinks. Goff is unproven. Watson may never stay healthy or be the same after his injury. Jimmy G has played 8 games ever.

    I think Stafford is a good comp for Kirk. Of course Stafford breaking the bank also caused everyone to clown him so the same should be expected here. He'll get his money, we'll get the 6 months of "I can't believe THIS GUY is the highest paid QB", he'll continue to be solid, then we'll repeat the cycle when the next solid-not-elite QB gets his turn.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fro View Post
    Wentz was proven to be marginally better than Nick Foles.
    Wentz was winning the MVP until he got hurt...

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    If you think Wentz played marginally better than Foles then this debate isn't worth continuing. You realize Foles played a great 10 quarters and Wentz played a great full season with spectacular play making abilities. Also, an ACL tear for Watson and Wentz won't derail them. Players comeback all the time from the injury. They are also great pocket passers. It's not like they need to be able to run to be great.

    - - - Updated - - -

    You keep throwing out stats but if you actually watch Cousins play, he makes the mistake right on que almost every game.

    You basically minimized what Keenum did because he was on a great team. You don't think Cousins had loads of weapons two years ago and they still stunk? Jackson, Crowder, Garcon, Reed, and Davis weren't enough?

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    Quote Originally Posted by PurePlayer View Post
    If you think Wentz played marginally better than Foles then this debate isn't worth continuing. You realize Foles played a great 10 quarters and Wentz played a great full season with spectacular play making abilities.
    Crazy right? It's almost like putting a guy with 7 career starts over a guy who's been good his last 48 games.

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    Cousins' deal will the the record breaking deal until the next guy comes along. This is how it went with Kaepernick/Dalton, and it will continue every time a QB not named Tom Brady gets a new deal.

    As a Vikings fan, I'm not sure how I feel about signing Cousins. Anthony Barr, Danielle Hunter, and Stefon Diggs need new deals, and I'd hate the Cousins signing to cause them to leave.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fro View Post
    Crazy right? It's almost like putting a guy with 7 career starts over a guy who's been good his last 48 games.
    He has been so good over those 48 games that they managed to go 24-23-1 in them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fro View Post
    Crazy right? It's almost like putting a guy with 7 career starts over a guy who's been good his last 48 games.
    in what world has he been good in 48 starts? You mean all those seasons with good weapons and no playoffs?

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    The interesting thing to me is the Buzz on the radio right now is that Zimmer doesnt want Cousins at the price he will cost but Spielmann the GM does.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kneeneighbor View Post
    He has been so good over those 48 games that they managed to go 24-23-1 in them.
    Quote Originally Posted by PurePlayer View Post
    in what world has he been good in 48 starts? You mean all those seasons with good weapons and no playoffs?
    And yet you guys include Rivers on your list who is 18-30 in his last 48 starts with good weapons. The Chargers btw were 3rd last year in points allowed while the Redskins were 27th.

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    I had Rivers 13th and Cousins 17th. (Note my original list is not is 1-13 order but Rivers is my 13th. And I am not a Rivers fan. But I think the problems with the Chargers are centered on coaching and the cheapness of ownership.

    Fro which way are you going to argue this, what makes a great quarterback is it wins or stats?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kneeneighbor View Post
    I had Rivers 13th and Cousins 17th. (Note my original list is not is 1-13 order but Rivers is my 13th. And I am not a Rivers fan. But I think the problems with the Chargers are centered on coaching and the cheapness of ownership.

    Fro which way are you going to argue this, what makes a great quarterback is it wins or stats?
    I am going to argue that Kirk is the same as Matt Stafford. Never won a playoff game. .500 QB in the regular season more or less. Similar stats. Will each get their turn on the QB contract carousel. When you get into these guys ranked 10-15 on the QB list, you're splitting hairs and they will mostly perform based on the team you put around them. Stafford even has the same shitty 3rd down/4th quarter stats. Pretty much a perfect comparison I'd say.

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    More TDs, Yards, Yards per Attempt, first downs, better passer rating, completion percentage, fewer INTs and more wins last year.

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    Cousins numbers from PFF


    And I understand you are saying someone is going to pay him but that doesnt mean it needs to be your team. (your in the royal sense)
    Last edited by Kneeneighbor; March 7th, 2018 at 12:16 PM.

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    I thought I saw somewhere where Stafford has some pretty darn good 4th quarter stats including a bunch of comeback wins/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fro View Post
    I am going to argue that Kirk is the same as Matt Stafford. Never won a playoff game. .500 QB in the regular season more or less. Similar stats. Will each get their turn on the QB contract carousel. When you get into these guys ranked 10-15 on the QB list, you're splitting hairs and they will mostly perform based on the team you put around them. Stafford even has the same shitty 3rd down/4th quarter stats. Pretty much a perfect comparison I'd say.
    Not a big fan of Stafford either but I like him more than Cousins just based on what I see from the, on the field.

    edit Stafford has 4th most comeback wins and Rivers is 7th among active qb's.

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    Where do late game stats play into the game. Stafford has a crazy amount of yards in his career because his teams were losing so he needed to throw 40+ times a game.

    Cousins threw 40 or more times in 3 games, all of which were losses. The Lions went 2-3 when Stafford threw 40+ times. But is that just a product of their respective offensives?

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    20% of Washingtons plays were Play Action Passes. Thats a crazy high amount. Cousins was money on those. When he was asked to throw with a straight drop back he was average at best.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TimeSplitter View Post
    Where do late game stats play into the game. Stafford has a crazy amount of yards in his career because his teams were losing so he needed to throw 40+ times a game.

    Cousins threw 40 or more times in 3 games, all of which were losses. The Lions went 2-3 when Stafford threw 40+ times. But is that just a product of their respective offensives?
    The Lions had only one bad loss all year(Ravens). It's not like they were down 3 scores every game

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    Seahawks traded Michael Bennett to the Eagles, and there are rumors they will cut Sherman today...

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    crazy move. guess that means Curry is gone. Bennett is getting paid like 1.5 mill against the cap with a roster bonus so they save money and get better production.

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    Bennett and a 7th to Philly, and Marcus Johnson and a fifth going to Seattle.

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    Good pickup for the Eagles. I wish we got him. I mean he's getting up there in age but still had 8 sacks last year. Hopefully we'll get Sherman instead.

    Quote Originally Posted by PurePlayer View Post
    crazy move. guess that means Curry is gone. Bennett is getting paid like 1.5 mill against the cap with a roster bonus so they save money and get better production.
    Bennett will have a 5.5 mil cap hit for you this year, I read. Curry will have 6 mil in dead cap if cut. I think. So they essentially lose 500k in cap space but save a lot of real cash if I'm understanding this correctly.

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    Screw the draft, this next week is easily the best part of the NFL offseason. Twitter on constant refresh.

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    When has the winner in NFL FA ever amounted to anything?

    The draft though..

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    Marty B released too.

    And Alec Ogletree traded to NYG for a 4th and a 6th.

    Lots of action today.

    - - - Updated - - -

    And there are rumors OAK might release all three of Crabtree/Lynch/Irvin today too.

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    Mo Wilkerson is in GB. Getting dinner with coaches tonight and having official meeting tomorrow. Hoping that they sign him.

  90. #190
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    May be the extent of Wilkerson's ability at this point - having folks buy him dinner.

    Hard to trust a guy who's production falls off a cliff before the ink even drys on his big contract.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Percussion View Post
    When has the winner in NFL FA ever amounted to anything?

    The draft though..
    Eagles were pretty darn active last year in FA...

  92. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by PurePlayer View Post
    Eagles were pretty darn active last year in FA...
    Good example.

    Could then ask the ratio of times that occurs versus building success through the draft. Doubt the Eagles fare as well with Wentz on the sideline week 1 onward.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Percussion View Post
    May be the extent of Wilkerson's ability at this point - having folks buy him dinner.

    Hard to trust a guy who's production falls off a cliff before the ink even drys on his big contract.
    There are definitely reservations. But his most formative years as a pro came when Pettine was his DC, and he is still 28 y/o. It's a gamble, no doubt though.

  94. #194
    Rising Down Fro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Percussion View Post
    Good example.

    Could then ask the ratio of times that occurs versus building success through the draft. Doubt the Eagles fare as well with Wentz on the sideline week 1 onward.
    Broncos were big free agent players in the seasons leading up to their recent title

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    Seahawks got huge FA additions in Avril and the aformentioned Bennett prior to their superbowl win too. As Fro says the biggest recent example is the Broncos who got Manning, Ware, Talib, Ward and Sanders and won the whole thing.

    The cliched "winner of FA never wins" stuff is based on success being claimed, either from fans or the media, simply due to some big contracts being dished out when it clearly doesn't work out that way. That doesn't mean free agency is a waste of time or ineffectual. The Eagles made some great moves in FA last year but some of them they wouldn't have got credit for right away. In the same vein you often can't judge the success of a draft until later down the line. They didn't even spend huge compared to other teams.

    There are multiple ways of winning, building through the draft is a clear recipe for success but it obviously relies on hitting on what amounts to lottery tickets sometimes. You can give free agency the cold shoulder if you are continually churning out quality draft class after draft class and use your money to re-sign your own players but that doesn't always happen. If you have a huge QB contract on your books then hitting through the draft is likely the path to success as you are limited in your room to manouver. The Eagles and the Seahawks at the time were in a position to make free agency splashes because they had what they believed to be franchise QB on rookie deals. That seems like the time to really push hard in FA to push you over the edge. The opportunity was there, they rolled the dice and won big. The obvious problem with free agent contracts often isn't in that season but they can really harm you down the line (see NYG 2016)

    All the final four teams in 2017 had big free agencies/off seasons not purely through the draft - Jags in particular. You gotta build your roster in more than one way and these teams did.

  96. #196
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    I admit my bias as a draft nerd. These have been good points all around.

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    Sam shields' comeback is official. He has signed with the Rams.

  98. #198
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    The latest on the Jonathan Martin story is very sad and disturbing

    http://www.tmz.com/2018/03/08/jonath...knife-threats/

  99. #199
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    Rams trade a 5th round pick for Aqib Talib. I guess that saves the Broncos from cutting him. He's 32, on the books for 11 million. I would gladly take him for that on what amounts to a 1-year deal with a second year option at 8 million. Good add for the Rams.

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    Damn. So Rams traded away robert quinn and alec ogletree, traded for aqib talib, and signed sam shields. Some pretty big shuffling on that D.

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