Baseball

[Fro]

In this thread we discuss America's pastime, the great sport of baseball.

The 2017 Hall of Fame class was just announced:

Iván "Pudge" Rodríguez


Jeff Bagwell


Tim Raines


And those who did not receive the needed 75%:

Trevor Hoffman 74.00%
Vladimir Guerrero 71.70%
Edgar Martinez 58.60%
Roger Clemens 54.10%
Barry Bonds 53.80%
Mike Mussina 51.80%
Curt Schilling 45.00%
Lee Smith 34.20%
Manny Ramirez 23.80%
Larry Walker 21.90%
Fred McGriff 21.70%
Jeff Kent 16.70%
Gary Sheffield 13.30%
Billy Wagner 10.20%
Sammy Sosa 8.60%

Your thoughts on this Hall of Fame class and who else should get in? Personally I think it's a joke that these guys are getting in before Clemens and Bonds but they both gained a lot of ground this year and will likely get in eventually. Hoffman is a lock as he should be. Vlad looks like a lock too. I would also put Schilling in for his postseason accomplishments but he'll likely come down to the wire. I'll pass on Mussina. Manny deserves in as one of the best couple hitters of our generation but I can see why his repeated steroid violations will keep him out.

OK PLAY BALL

[LOCONUT]

lol @ Bagwell. Next up is going to be Clemens and Bonds. What a fucking joke.

[BigAl]

I don't understand how Vlad and Hoffman weren't voted in already. Was there steroid talk about either of them? Even if there was, if Bags is in anybody should be in.

Interesting question: if Griffey missed being unanimous by 3 votes, will Jeter or Mo beat that vote total or even be unanimous?

[Kneeneighbor]

It is possible there is a unanimous vote now that the ballots will be revealed to everyone going forward. The 3 people who did not vote Junior are still unknown. That wont happen anymore and the people who do not vote will be scrutinized.

[TimeSplitter]

Jeter should be unanimous, but I'm sure one or two won't vote for him like with Griffey. Bonds and Clemens will get in eventually, the steroid thing is still very fresh in everyone's mind. Vlad and Hoffman are pretty much locks for next year.

[Bad Collin]

Edgar

[BigAl]

I would think Jeter has to be unanimous. It will be a slap in the face if he isn't, and I'm not a Yankees fan at all. I think it was Tim Kurkjian from ESPN that said, in response to Griffey not being unanimous, some voters use the vote they would have used on somebody like Jeter to vote for a lesser candidate who needs the vote. The thought process is that Jeter will get in no matter what, so why not vote for somebody who needs as many votes as possible to get him towards the Hall. I understand that sentiment but I don't agree with it.

I'm glad to see Raines finally get in. He deserves it. I don't like the idea of Bagwell getting in but for a time he was one of my favorite players, at least until I was old enough to understand the steroid issue.

[Fro]

I don't really care about the unanimous thing. Big Unit and Pedro were more deserving to be unanimous than Jeter, IMO. They are some of the greatest pitchers in the history of the game. Jeter is not one of the best positional players of all time, at least not to the same extent. He did win a lot of titles though so that's a plus. Anyway if Jeter is unanimous that's fine, if he's not I won't care. But obviously he is first ballot.

I think making the votes public is a good idea but I also think the vote shaming that goes on is fairly ridiculous. First ballot is a nice distinction but as long as you get into the hall, who cares.

[Fro]

I would also add that Mo Rivera is more deserving of unanimous than Jeter. You can say a shortstop has more impact on the game than a closer but Mo was the best EVER in his role.

[BigAl]

I agree with that statement. I'd like to see Mo go in unanimously rather than Jeter.

I'd like to see who voted for who, but like you said, the vote shaming that will go on is ridiculous. Voters can't please everybody. I'd much rather see a discussion of WHY they voted the way they did than WHO they voted for.

[Kneeneighbor]

Jeter should not be unanimous. One could argue he wasnt even the best Short Stop of his era. (Some might argue he wasnt the best SS on his team)

[LOCONUT]

Jeter is a sack of shit. A fake "hero" who was just as juiced as all of his friends who got busted. The fact that he carried on like some kind of role model is sickening. Pudge and Raines were juicers too.

Fuck all of them. Piazza and Gagne too.

[LOCONUT]

We should publicly execute Bud Selig, Tony La Russa, Joe Torre and all the other enablers and coordinators who built their fortunes and reputations on the backs of drug cheats. La Russa obviously being the most despicable character in baseball history.

I couldn't be more repulsed by these idiots who permanently damaged America's past time.

[MTR]

I doubt anyone will ever be unanimous and I am okay with that. There is always going to be one or two people that won't vote for someone because they don't want to see an unanimous vote. Kind of lame but at the end of the day not that big of a deal as long as they are in.

[Fro]

Jeter is a sack of shit. A fake "hero" who was just as juiced as all of his friends who got busted. The fact that he carried on like some kind of role model is sickening. Pudge and Raines were juicers too.

Fuck all of them. Piazza and Gagne too.

I can't tell if this is a gimmick or if you're being serious. Probably somewhere in between. But is it your take that everyone who played in the steroid era was using and therefore simply playing in this era should automatically disqualify you from the HOF?

[LOCONUT]

I can't tell if this is a gimmick or if you're being serious. Probably somewhere in between. But is it your take that everyone who played in the steroid era was using and therefore simply playing in this era should automatically disqualify you from the HOF?

Mostly yes. Jeter hits a particular nerve for me. His steroid and performance pattern was clearer than anyones. Right down to every cycle. Fuck that guy and seriously fuck Tony La Russa. He should be stripped of his Hall status and all baseball related duties. I don't want any of the juicers in.

How is Pete Rose not in the Hall but we let in guys who are admitted cheaters. Fuck me.

[LOCONUT]

Jeter could be in the Hall of being ahead of HGH testing. Fuck that guy. I hope he gets gang raped by horses and trampled to death.

[LOCONUT]

I mean how is it OK that Jeff fucking Bagwell who is basically the 4th or 5th greatest poster boy for PED's gets into the HOF but not the greatest living baseball hitter Pete Rose because he liked gambles. Fucking jokers.

[Fro]

Jeter hits a particular nerve for me. His steroid and performance pattern was clearer than anyones. Right down to every cycle.

Could you elaborate on this? I haven't heard this argument before, about his steroid pattern and cycles. But I am willing to embrace it if it holds water. The general consensus seems to be that he is one of the least likely to have used because he never had the look of a roider or the inflated stats.

[Percussion]

Curious about Bagwell, is simply getting bigger enough to implicate a professional athlete with steroid use?

[Peter Griffin]

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/20...ashes-baseball

I know nothing about baseball, but 2 players died in 2 separate car accidents.

[Kneeneighbor]

Driving while intoxicated is not a good plan.

[hithit]

So is saying something like that without any knowledge of what happened.

[Greed]

Except it's widely reported that it was a crash in which alcohol was a factor. Devastating still, and its also known that the DR has the highest rate of deaths from DD incidents.

[Torn]

Driving while intoxicated is not a good plan.

Very sad news but this is very true and happening too much and happened in the Domincan Republic again

[Kneeneighbor]

So is saying something like that without any knowledge of what happened.

Yeah it has been reported all over mate.

[Greed]

Andy Marte also died last night, in a separate traffic accident in the DR

[Caito]

Going back to HoF for a second....


Seriously for Trevor Hoffman? How is he not in? And what a kick in the gut, needing 75% and getting 74%

They better put his ass in next year.

[Judas Iscariot]

Trevor Hoffman went from a shut down closer during the regular season to a deer in the headlights in the postseason.

He'll get in and should get in, though. I think votes being transparent going forward is going to make the whole process a bit more interesting on a couple of levels.

[LOCONUT]

If alcohol was a factor in Ventura's death then his contract gets wiped and his estate gets nothing.

[Fro]

late but RIP to Yordano Ventura and Andy Marte

If alcohol was a factor in Ventura's death then his contract gets wiped and his estate gets nothing.

yea that's a tricky situation. hopefully his family gets the money but I can see why the team wouldn't want to pay in the event a player dies by doing something illegal. that's fair, I guess. but what's the cutoff point? like what if he had a drink or two and wasn't over the legal limit? the toxicology report might still say alcohol influenced the accident but should that void his contract?

also this report about him possibly being robbed before the ambulance arrived is disturbing.

[BigAl]

I think I heard the line was that alcohol had to be a factor according to how the contract was written. So maybe he wasn't over the legal limit but was just below it, that's a problem for his estate. If his BAC .08 and the legal limit is .10 I'd say that's a factor. But if his BAC was, say, .02, then I think the argument could be made that it wasn't a factor. Either way, this is probably going to court.

His family said he was robbed of his World Series ring and left to die. Not sure if he died instantly or not, so that could have happened.

[LOCONUT]

Standard MLBPA-MLB CBA states all contracts are void if player injures himself or dies driving under the influence of alcohol. It's apparently pretty clear in the player contracts.

[TimeSplitter]

They've said there was no alcohol at the site of the crash, and toxicology will show in a few weeks if there was any in his system. They also said he wasn't wearing a seatbelt.

[hithit]

Yeah it has been reported all over mate.

It's really hasn't been mate.

[TimeSplitter]

There was a pretty good read on ESPN's website about driving accidents in the Dominican.

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/1...not-surprising

[Fro]

Remember when the Cardinals were caught hacking the Astros? The punishment from MLB just came down:

Major League Baseball is ordering the St. Louis Cardinals' top two draft picks in the 2017 draft (56, 75 overall) be awarded to the Houston Astros, and for the Cardinals to pay the Astros $2 million within 30 days.

Seems pretty fair given the circumstances. The Cardinals guy who did it is already in prison for this, right?

[BigAl]

He was sentenced to four years, but he'll get out earlier than that. He's also permanently ineligible to work for an MLB or MiLB team again.

How crazy is it to be one of those two prospects? I can't recall a single case of a prospect being awarded to a new team as punishment, but there has to be a precedent for it.

[Kneeneighbor]

Its the draft pick that they are getting not someone who was drafted by STL.

[BigAl]

Yeah I totally read that wrong. I read it as the 2016 Draft, not the 2017 Draft. Up waaaay too late last night.

I should probably recheck all the work I've done today.

[Fro]

Well it's not like players the Cardinals already drafted are being sent to the Astros. The Astros just get to use the Cardinals' draft spots. So I don't think it's THAT crazy. Good chance the teams wouldn't have selected the same players in those slots anyway.

Edit: nvm lol

also I will add that a 4 year prison sentence for this seems like a lot.

[Kneeneighbor]

He is hacking and stealing trade secrets form a competitor. Its a major deal.

Imagine if someone from Pepsi was caught hacking into Coke and stealing their business info...

[BigAl]

And he did it nearly 50 times over 2.5 years with multiple logins to the Astros email AND their main scouting page. It was five counts of the same crime. That's why it was such a steep jail sentence and a fine of $280,000, payable to the Astros.

[Fro]

I'm obligated to point out that Cardinals getting roughly the same punishment for this hacking scandal as the Patriots got for maybe deflating a tiny amount of air is so freaking insane.

They're saying on SportsCenter that other teams are complaining it wasn't harsh enough on the Cards, which I agree with. They should have taken their first pick this year (2nd rounder) PLUS their 1st round pick next year, at the very least. Really it feels like two 1st rounders would be more apt, and fine them more like $5-10 million. This is by far the worst act of sports cheating I can remember in my lifetime if the details I'm reading about how they hacked in on draft days and trade deadlines to see Astros' evaluations is accurate. I know this isn't news but I haven't followed the story closely so reading some stuff now.

[BigAl]

Correa is now claiming the Astros hacked into the Cardinals computer system in 2011, including scouting reports and medical reports. He also claims that the Astros GM and the Asst. GM were emailed detailed reports regarding this alleged hacking from 2012-2014. The best part is that he only knows this because he hacked the Astros in the first place. I don't think anything will come of it because this is the first we're hearing of it but, man, what a crazy story this is.

[virms]

Fairest punishment for them is all electronic devices stripped from the organization. They should have to operate as if it's 1950 for a couple of years.

[MTR]

I don't think this is the first time he has said that. I believe he was saying that previously that he had found out they were stealing information from the Cards and he was trying to see if that was the case. Either way hacking into their system is not the way to go if you think they are cheating. I hate Cards lost the picks but yeah the idiot shouldn't have gotten into their system so they have to be punished for it. I was honestly expecting harsher.

[Fro]

the old "they started it" defense

[BigAl]

Yeah, two wrongs don't make a right. If he suspected the Astros of hacking, he should have raised the alarm with the Cards, MLB, the FBI, anybody who would listen. But to hack into the Astros system isn't the way to go.

[Fro]

"I only hacked into their system to see if they were hacking ours... and then I just happened to stumble across their player evaluations on draft day... and their trade negotiation notes at the trade deadline..."

[BigAl]

"But it's not like I was doing anything they weren't doing."

[MTR]

Yup pretty much. The whole well they started it and were doing it first. Idiot. He deserves what he got and the Cardinals have to deal with the punishment since he was their employee when he did it.

[Caito]

I'm done celebrating. It's baseball season.

[TimeSplitter]

Would anybody be interested in being in a fantasy baseball league? Now that football is over, I'm starting to get hyped for baseball.

[Fro]

I haven't played fantasy baseball in a few years now. The daily rosters are too much to keep up with. I'm interested in a fantasy league with weekly roster updates if anyone else likes that idea.

[TimeSplitter]

I haven't played fantasy baseball in a few years now. The daily rosters are too much to keep up with. I'm interested in a fantasy league with weekly roster updates if anyone else likes that idea.

I did one a few years ago that was based on weekly results. I don't know if they still do it, but instead of picking individual pitchers you pick a team.

[Fro]

Interesting. I was more thinking of a normal league with individual players but where rosters are only set weekly. And the starting rosters would be bigger so that you can play almost everyone on your team, i.e. more SP, P, IF, OF spots (as opposed to subbing in players and starters based on day to day schedules). I think one year I ran the BG Fantasy League that way.

[TimeSplitter]

I'll check out ESPN and Yahoo. I'd imagine they have something akin to what you are talking about.

[MTR]

I haven't played in a few years but I would be up for a league. I am fine with daily or weekly lineup changes.

[Fro]

I'll check out ESPN and Yahoo. I'd imagine they have something akin to what you are talking about.

Yea you just change the lineup settings from daily to weekly, but it's a question of whether you and others are interested in that. If you get enough guys to do a daily league don't let me stop you - that's the more traditional format.

EDIT: also, I believe the VIP league was still active last year. It may be the only active Rajah league for baseball.

[Kneeneighbor]

My suggestion would be if you go daily or weekly have the playoffs played shortly after the all star break. Its a super long season and people lose interest if they dont start well.

That said I have a few fantasy type games I will be unveiling in the coming month. Things that take a small amount of time each week or simply at the start of the year.

[Fro]

@teddyschleifer:
Wow -- MLB is considering starting extra innings with a runner already at 2nd. Testing it in the minors this season.

wtf

actually I don't hate this. I just wouldn't start it until the 12th inning or something.

[Torn]

EDIT: also, I believe the VIP league was still active last year. It may be the only active Rajah league for baseball.

IT IS.

[darkhorse]

@teddyschleifer:
Wow -- MLB is considering starting extra innings with a runner already at 2nd. Testing it in the minors this season.

wtf

actually I don't hate this. I just wouldn't start it until the 12th inning or something.

I'd have to agree. I'm in favor of doing so a bit later in the game (and I get that Manfred wants to speed games up), but one or two extra innings of standard play wouldn't hurt.

[BigAl]

@teddyschleifer:
Wow -- MLB is considering starting extra innings with a runner already at 2nd. Testing it in the minors this season.

wtf

actually I don't hate this. I just wouldn't start it until the 12th inning or something.

I'm all for this starting in the 11th. This is a great idea and I hope we see it make it to the bigs before too long. It's also going to be o place for the WBC this year I believe.

[Fro]

Which runner goes on 2nd though?

[darkhorse]

I'm guessing whichever hitter would normally be due at bat.

[BigAl]

Yeah that would be the only fair way to do it. Or if they want they could have the last out start on second but that has the potential to get complicated.

[Kneeneighbor]

This is the international tie breaker. Usually it is the last out.

Its a garbage rule and shouldnt be used. If the game is to long shut it off after 9 and go do something else.

[darkhorse]

Looks like Loria is finally ready to sell the Marlins:

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2017/0...agreement.html

If this deal (or any other deal) becomes official, I will be ecstatic

[TimeSplitter]

He bought the team for $180-185 million back in the day. What a profit.

[Kneeneighbor]

He bought the team for $180-185 million back in the day. What a profit.

He bought the Expos for $12 million. Sold them for $120 million and then used that money to buy the Marlins (plus a loan from MLB for $38 million to cover the difference.)

[Fro]

I wonder when the last time someone sold a major American sports franchise (talking MLB, NBA, NFL) and didn't made a huge profit. I mean I'm sure it happened back in the day but in the last 25 years I feel like the teams have all been getting vastly more valuable.

Granted that might change in the future.... the Clippers and Dodgers sold for 2 billion, Marlins for 1.6 billion. How much more valuable can they get?

[Judas Iscariot]

The New York Yankees are valued at $3.4 billion, the Dallas Cowboys at $4 billion.

[Mr. Boombastic]

RIP Mike Illitch, Detroit Tigers/Red Wings owner. Great owner and he did great things for Detroit and the state of Michigan, if only more billionaires were like him the world would be a better place.

[Caito]

@teddyschleifer:
Wow -- MLB is considering starting extra innings with a runner already at 2nd. Testing it in the minors this season.

wtf

actually I don't hate this. I just wouldn't start it until the 12th inning or something.

Fuck that.

Play the damn game.

[Judas Iscariot]

That's nonsense.

They're worrying about game length by changing how extra innings are played?

How about getting the batter into the box and the pitcher on the mound, how about that?

[Rancid_Planet]

That's nonsense.

They're worrying about game length by changing how extra innings are played?

How about getting the batter into the box and the pitcher on the mound, how about that?

Fucking A. Look at you fucking that A.

They're going to go so far as to make a major change like that in order to speed up the game instead of doing something simple like giving the batter a free base when the pitcher is taking too long. Or giving the hitter an extra strike for fiddle fucking around between every single pitch.

[Caito]

I blame Nomar for this bullshit.

[Rancid_Planet]

The Brandon Phillps trade to Atlanta has finally happened.

Fuck yes. My Braves have an actual shot at not sucking ass this year.

[Fro]

That guy is old as hell, I remember playing as him in MVP 2005.

[LOCONUT]

Well past his prime.

[Rancid_Planet]

That guy is old as hell, I remember playing as him in MVP 2005.

We needed somebody bad after Rodriguez got in that car accident and old or not he hit .291 last year. I don't care if the wheels fall off in a year.

I just want one season of above average play from my team.

[TimeSplitter]

Living in Cincy for a few years, I really liked BP. But the Reds have to young middle infielders they want to give playing time. He grew up outside Atlanta, so maybe that helped him waive his 10/5. The two prospects the Reds got are not invited to spring training, so they clearly just wanted to give the youngsters a chance. Feel bad for Votto, he is incredible.

Now that I'm back in Minnesota, it'll be a tough rebuilding year. Hopefully Buxton can keep his hot September going, and Sano can get back to form. Moving him to right field at the start of last season was so stupid.

[Judas Iscariot]

Oh wow we're getting rid of the intentional walk.

The 10 seconds it takes up every three games is really going to speed up the sport.

[Percussion]

Not getting rid of.

[Fro]

the argument to keep it being that once a decade there's a passed ball that allows a runner to advance or score?

adios.

[Judas Iscariot]

Not getting rid of.

All I've heard on the radio today is that the commish and MLBPA agreed to ditch it in favor of just giving the base to the batter.

Or are you arguing my wording you JERKFACE you know what I meant.

[Percussion]

Wasn't sure of what you meant so I took it on its jerkface.

So you'd rather continue playing charades with the ibb?

[Judas Iscariot]

It's not going to do anything to shorten games, just like starting with a runner on second base in the 11th inning isn't going to do anything to shorten games. It's all hogwash.

Get the pitchers on the mound and the batters in the box.

[Kneeneighbor]

the argument to keep it being that once a decade there's a passed ball that allows a runner to advance or score?

adios.

It's been all of 6 months since that happened.

[Percussion]

It's not going to do anything to shorten games, just like starting with a runner on second base in the 11th inning isn't going to do anything to shorten games. It's all hogwash.

Get the pitchers on the mound and the batters in the box.

Shortening the game shouldn't be nearly as prominent an issue as quickening the pace. And so unless you feel it necessary to go through largely pointless motions.

[Judas Iscariot]

I really wanted to say "OMG shortening the game is the same as quickening the pace, JERKFACE."

But you're right, my wording was wrong, and words have meaning. So I apologize.

Would you agree, though, that these measures are relatively meaningless compared to getting the pitcher on the mound and the batter in the box?

[Percussion]

Sure.

[virms]

We can shorten everything buy just giving the Cubs the World Series again on opening day

[Judas Iscariot]

The Yankees flirted with a perfect game in spring training today.

You're all fucked with this staff and pen.

[TimeSplitter]

As spring training continues, I have a question for you all: who do you think has the coolest hat in baseball? I really dug the Expos hat, but that's no longer a thing. I've always thought the White Sox, Orioles, and Blue Jays hats were cool.

Thoughts?

[Kneeneighbor]

I always enjoyed this Twins hat.

and this Orioles hat.

[Fro]

I don't care for that Orioles cartoon bird wearing a baseball cap, it's too cheesy. Twins is good, and I like the Blue Jays:



In terms of the ones that are just a letter or letters, I like the Tigers stylized D, and the classic yankees NY.

[Kneeneighbor]

I feel like the D on the Tigers hat is too small.

It also bugs me that it does not match the D on their white uniforms.