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  1. #2301
    E-Bow The Poster Rancid_Planet's Avatar
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    I dont know how this slipped under my radar but there is a new rule in effect for MLB in 2020 and I fucking hate it.

    Relief pitchers must now face 3 batters minimum or finish the half inning.

    This is fucking stupid. Sometimes a relief guy comes in and just doesnt have his stuff and its obvious from the first pitch. But now he has to hang in there and get hammered by three hitters in a row before he can be pulled. Sounds like maybe an ok concept in May. Let's see how folks feel about it in October when it's THEIR team stuck and unable to make a move when they're only up by 1 run in the 8th during game 7.

    Also it takes the chess match out of it which has been the only good and interesting part of relievers working half the game since that started being the norm 20 years ago.

    Now you cant bring in a lefty to face just the one guy who cant hit lefties.

    And I know I know, speed the game up. "We don't like how slow it is. We don't like the chess match. Get to the action. Make it like football. Why isn't this football? When does football start? Can I start my fantasy football league yet? Is this STILL a baseball game? Oh my god poke my eyes out I hate this shit oh my god please turn this into football basketball fucking anything but baseball I hate baseball and won't ever watch but listen to my opinions on it."

  2. #2302
    Legend Fro's Avatar
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    Mookie to the Dodgers. David Price also in the deal but it's not clear if he's headed there or to a third team.

    It's quite shitty to trade Mookie who is one of the best and most exciting players of the day (arguably 2nd only to Trout as a position player) and only 27 years old. I would be a lot more angry if we hadn't won the title in 2018. They overspent on a lot of outside guys, in terms of both dollars and prospects, so I can see why they've come to this impasse. Arguably without those moves and Cora's elite management, they wouldn't have won that title, so I can't shout about this too much. It sucks though. Betts is better but at least they locked up Bogaerts on a team friendly deal.

  3. #2303
    Legend Fro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rancid_Planet View Post
    I dont know how this slipped under my radar but there is a new rule in effect for MLB in 2020 and I fucking hate it.

    Relief pitchers must now face 3 batters minimum or finish the half inning.

    This is fucking stupid. Sometimes a relief guy comes in and just doesnt have his stuff and its obvious from the first pitch. But now he has to hang in there and get hammered by three hitters in a row before he can be pulled. Sounds like maybe an ok concept in May. Let's see how folks feel about it in October when it's THEIR team stuck and unable to make a move when they're only up by 1 run in the 8th during game 7.

    Also it takes the chess match out of it which has been the only good and interesting part of relievers working half the game since that started being the norm 20 years ago.

    Now you cant bring in a lefty to face just the one guy who cant hit lefties.

    And I know I know, speed the game up. "We don't like how slow it is. We don't like the chess match. Get to the action. Make it like football. Why isn't this football? When does football start? Can I start my fantasy football league yet? Is this STILL a baseball game? Oh my god poke my eyes out I hate this shit oh my god please turn this into football basketball fucking anything but baseball I hate baseball and won't ever watch but listen to my opinions on it."
    I didn't know they passed this either. I thought this rule was still in the talking about it / trying it out in minor leagues phase. If they did implement this for the majors, then that's... major.

    I personally like it though. I basically embody your quote at the end there. But I do watch... my team... when they're in the playoffs and here and there in the regular season.

  4. #2304
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    If what the Red Sox are reportedly getting in return, just two prospects, is true then this is disgusting.

  5. #2305
    E-Bow The Poster Rancid_Planet's Avatar
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    Seems to be official.

    This just sucks. The only way I've ever choked down the way the game went from having starters go 7 or 8 innings to 5 or 6 was that I somewhat enjoyed the matchup by matchup moves the managers would make to sort of out duel the other guy. It added a layer of strategy that way but this rule basically slaps the manager's hand away and says "No! Let's just watch and see what happens."

    It's goofy, ignorant and reeks of changing a rule just to "keep the game moving along" which I'm generally a fan of but not when it means sacrificing elements of the game that make it so fun to watch.

    What next? No more home run trots? Just go back to the dugout after that grand salami. We want to keep this thing moving along kid.

    Anyway yeah Mookie getting moved I guess was unavoidable. I hate it for Boston as they've always been the only AL team I've consistenly rooted for but I guess they just HAD to offload some salary and this move made too much sense I guess.

    At least he won't be winning any rings against you guys.

    You know. Since the Dodgers seemingly have a voodoo doll getting poked out there somewhere every october.

  6. #2306
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    Trading Mookie was absolutely avoidable. We are talking about the Red Sox here not the Royals or Rays.

  7. #2307
    E-Bow The Poster Rancid_Planet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by soxfanatic View Post
    Trading Mookie was absolutely avoidable. We are talking about the Red Sox here not the Royals or Rays.
    Well I mean unavoidable in the sense that ownership wanted the payroll to get down under the luxury tax threshold.

    I mean that's a far cry from the Royals or Rays. Boston was reportedly around 238 million in payroll for this season. 30 million over where they needed to be.

    Compare this to KC or TB who have payrolls hovering around 50 million. Ain't nobody in bean town going hungry for talented baseball players. Just shows what a couple rotten deals can do to you.

    Plus if you're a Boston fan you know this move is just meant to begin the soft rebuild everyone knows needs to happen if they want to win another ring soon. They'll be spending it up again in no time I'm sure.

    Now as it stands I think the only teams in the luxury tax level are the Yankess and Dodgers.
    Last edited by Rancid_Planet; February 4th, 2020 at 11:36 PM.

  8. #2308
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    I know but the whole thing with the luxury tax is tough to swallow. The Fenway Sports Group, which owns the Red Sox, is worth almost
    7 Billion

  9. #2309
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    Quote Originally Posted by soxfanatic View Post
    I know but the whole thing with the luxury tax is tough to swallow. The Fenway Sports Group, which owns the Red Sox, is worth almost
    7 Billion
    Shit. Liberty Media, owners of the Braves, are worth something like 27 Billion.

    Yet we sit at or a little above league average payroll every year.

    These rich fuckers that own teams just to say they own them suck.

    Of course the superfan owners that want to be in the locker room with the players are just as bad from the other direction.

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    Hopefully Mookie can teach the Dodgers Alex Cora's cheating system. It's kind of a dick move that Cora never shared it with us since we raised him in our system.

    Conversely, I once was at Dodgers stadium when Cora fouled off something like 19 pitches in a row and then hit a huge home run. Cant remember if we even won that game but it was an awesome moment.

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    Couldn't have gone to a more deserving team...

  12. #2312
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    https://dodgers.mlblogs.com/18-again...er-360e01acc06

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by kdestiny View Post
    Couldn't have gone to a more deserving team...

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    Just when you thought Red Sox couldn’t get any more in turmoil.

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    Big trade all around. Glad the Twins got a quality starter in Maeda. Grusdar Braterol is a top pitching prospect, but he is more than likely a reliever long term.

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    Intercontinental Champion BigAl's Avatar
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    No extension for Betts? So at this point it's just a one year rental?

    Mets sale to Steve Cohen is in danger of falling through. Rumor has it the deal started to fall apart because the Wilpons tried to change the terms as it was nearly a completed deal, namely that they'd still control the team for the next five years.

  16. #2316
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    I hope Betts gets to free agency and gets $500 mil

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    He has long said he wants to reach free agency so the thought here is the dodgers would have to offer him something gigantic to extend him before then. Like basically offer him on the high end of what we’d expect him to get on the open market.

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    Twins looking good this year.

    I bet the Dodgers find a way to keep Betts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PurePlayer View Post
    Twins looking good this year.

    I bet the Dodgers find a way to keep Betts.
    Getting Maeda helps with the lack of pitching acquisitions this offseason. They had an ok rotation last year, but Berrios/Odorizzi/Maeda is a good trio. Adding Donaldson will be big as well. Should be a lot of fun. It will be hard to top last years home run bonanza though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TimeSplitter View Post
    Getting Maeda helps with the lack of pitching acquisitions this offseason. They had an ok rotation last year, but Berrios/Odorizzi/Maeda is a good trio. Adding Donaldson will be big as well. Should be a lot of fun. It will be hard to top last years home run bonanza though.
    I guess it comes down to whether they can beat the Yankees as it seems like it does every year. Twins could end up being their biggest threat.

  21. #2321
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    I am so sad today. Like, I get why Betts is gone, but it still sucks.

  22. #2322
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caito View Post
    I am so sad today. Like, I get why Betts is gone, but it still sucks.
    And from what I've heard, the Sox ticket prices just went up again for the coming season. It's like cutting out the heart of the team and putting a band-aid over it. Sure they have decent young players at the top level, and some further along in the minors but Betts is not easy to replace.

  23. #2323
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    Yeah they did, that had been known for a while. I mean, I’ll still go and support my team, but it just sucks knowing one of the top 3 position players in baseball isn’t on your team anymore.


    The thing I will say though, is that I’m confused about the whole “cheap team payroll” thing. As if we are the Boston Rays or something. The payroll is still somewhere in the 190 million dollar range. Tell me again how that makes us cheap?

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    They wanted to get below the luxary threshold. If you are over it for multiple years, the penalty increases.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TimeSplitter View Post
    They wanted to get below the luxary threshold. If you are over it for multiple years, the penalty increases.
    They want to buy Mbappe or Sancho for Liverpool instead

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    Hahaha

  27. #2327
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    Seems they’re doing fine without them.

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    There’s a theory out there that the Red Sox will use this year to reset the luxury tax and then re-sign Mookie in free agency. I’m choosing to believe it.

  29. #2329
    E-Bow The Poster Rancid_Planet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fro View Post
    There’s a theory out there that the Red Sox will use this year to reset the luxury tax and then re-sign Mookie in free agency. I’m choosing to believe it.
    If it's not him it will be someone else of high value. Boston isn't sbout to stop spending money.

    There is just no sense in paying extra payroll taxes in a season you won't be competing in.

  30. #2330
    Intercontinental Champion BigAl's Avatar
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    New baseball playoff format has been proposed by Manfred:

    MLB is considering a move in which each league would have three division winners and four wild-card teams making the postseason starting in 2022,
    sources said. The best team in the league would receive a bye into the division series. The two remaining division winners and the wild-card team
    with the best record of the four would each host all games of a best-of-three series in the opening round.

    Once the teams clinch and the regular season ends, the plan gets congested:

    The division winner with the second-best record would select its wild-card opponent from the three wild-card winners not hosting a series.

    The division winner with the worst record would then choose its opponent from the remaining two wild-card teams.

    The final matchup would pit the wild-card winner with the best record against the wild-card team not yet chosen.
    Not really a fan of this. The idea that it needs to be announced live on TV is fucking stupid.

  31. #2331
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    Are they doing this to attract a younger audience? Make the game more exciting? I don't understand the logic behind it.

  32. #2332
    Intercontinental Champion BigAl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Honey_Badger View Post
    Are they doing this to attract a younger audience? Make the game more exciting? I don't understand the logic behind it.
    Yeah, probably both of those are among the reasons why. Plus more play off games = richer television contracts.

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    I could see the latter being a good point, for sure. I don't see how this change is going to attract a younger audience. If they want to attract a younger audience they need to work on building stars, shortening the game and picking up the pace of play.

    I still think the best chance for increased ratings is shortening the game from 9 innings to 7 innings.

    You could ultimately have a starting pitcher go 4-5 innings, followed by a setup pitcher and leading into your closer. The idea would likely lengthen the careers of pitchers and cut down on fatigue and injury. You could potentially cut your pitching staff and bring in more positions players for pinch running and defensive shifts.

  34. #2334
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    I'm in favor of a bigger postseason tournament but it would need to come with a shortening of the regular season. And of course that will never happen (I don't think?) so it's probably not worth talking about. But I'll talk about it anyway... the regular season is so boring and it makes expanding the postseason very difficult because it's dumb to have the world series played in freezing cold weather when it's a summer sport. But the postseason should be expanded because it's when baseball is fun and draws viewers to watch the game. For instance, the divisional round should be a 7 game series. Period. The only reason it's not is that we are crunched for time, seasonally. And yes, make the wild card round a 3-game series. That would be great fun! But these changes are hamstrung by the inordinately long regular season. I would feel the same way a lot of people would, that it would be weird for stat totals to shrink on a seasonable basis and a career basis. Yea that would stink given the history of the game and all, but I truly believe shortening the season (with an expansion of the postseason) would benefit the sport so greatly. The regular season should be in the 100 to 120 game range.

    The ratio of regular season games to playoff games is so off in baseball. It's the biggest flaw of the sport. I did some quick math, hopefully it's generally right:

    MLB: 2430 regular season games, 35ish playoff games. (Roughly 69 to 1)
    NFL: 256 regular season games, 11 playoff games (23 to 1)
    NBA: 1230 regular season games, 90 ish playoff games (14 to 1)

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    I suspect they are thowing this out, knowing it won't fly, because they'd much rather the public be talking about wildcard and playoffs instead of the damage to the game that the Astros / Red Sox cheating scandal has caused.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 3puppies View Post
    I suspect they are thowing this out, knowing it won't fly, because they'd much rather the public be talking about wildcard and playoffs instead of the damage to the game that the Astros / Red Sox cheating scandal has caused.
    This is also entirely possible. No changes like this can be made until the current CBA expires after next season so it very well could be both a way to distract from the scandal AND them testing the public's response to it.

    I'd very much be down for a best of three series for the wild card spot but I don't think there needs to be a potential additional nine games in the first round of the playoffs. Like Fro said, the season is too long already. I'd rather see them shorten the season a bit, maybe by 30-45 games, and give a few more off days during the summer or start the playoffs in mid-September. The LCS and WS could still happen in October.

    And would it kill them to have a World Series game start during the day on the weekend?

  37. #2337
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3puppies View Post
    I suspect they are thowing this out, knowing it won't fly, because they'd much rather the public be talking about wildcard and playoffs instead of the damage to the game that the Astros / Red Sox cheating scandal has caused.

    This. All of this.



    Plus plus it’s a stupid fucking idea.


    Just let let the two wild card teams play a short 3 game series and move on.

  38. #2338
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    This is well said by Trevor Bauer:

    https://twitter.com/Starting9/status...68754830942213

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    Just let the players express themselves. Let them have some personality.
    25 or 30 years ago Buck Showalter hated the fact that Griffey Jr wore a backwards hat during BP. Said it was disrespectful to the game of baseball. Even if MLB allowed guys to have more than three colors of cleats or to show some personality, there would be guys complaining.

  40. #2340
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    They’re at a point now where they don’t have much choice. They even came out with that commercial last year about “let the kids play”. Baseball is my favorite sport, but it is quickly going the route that a lot of older folks think of golf, where you have to act a certain, proper way or you don’t deserve to be involved. And that is going to take a huge toll on the game, cuz it makes everyone boring.

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    Well, that Astros press conference really didn't change my opinion. Seems like the equivalent of a parent forcing their kid to apologize when they have zero concept of what they did wrong.

  42. #2342
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    Since I know the Sox don’t have a chance this year.... I want the Astros to take the AL, and blow the doors off the Yankees in the process.


    Cuz It would be hilarious to me if the Astros just went out this year after everything.

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    I hope they sell little drums in Houston for the fans to bang on during the games. That would be lovely.

  44. #2344
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    The Astros press conference was horrendous


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    Quote Originally Posted by TimeSplitter View Post
    Well, that Astros press conference really didn't change my opinion. Seems like the equivalent of a parent forcing their kid to apologize when they have zero concept of what they did wrong.
    It actually makes me think much worse of them. I didn't blame them that much before (cheating and baseball go hand in hand) but that press conference makes is clear they have zero regrets and would do the entire thing again.

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    And I think the buzzers thing is true. At this point I'm still of the belief that the Red Sox did not cheat near the level of the Astros and the Sox were just signaling signs to a baserunner, THE NORMAL WAY, but if it came out that the Red Sox were using buzzers and trash cans like the Astros, shit, they'd deserve an asterisk too. The Astros cheating was egregious. These players who wore buzzers should be given a year long ban, if not lifetime.

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    I still don’t care. Hell, I’m rooting for the Astros to come out this year and shove it up everybody’s ass.



    Im beginning to think I’m just a real life heel who loves chaos.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Percussion View Post
    Image not loading for me , I think you have to be logged into TexansTalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by Caito View Post
    I still don’t care. Hell, I’m rooting for the Astros to come out this year and shove it up everybody’s ass.

    Im beginning to think I’m just a real life heel who loves chaos.
    To me it’s like, I feel how you feel but only to an extent. Deflategate was dumb as hell because even if true it wasn’t very significant at all. I enjoyed that kind of chaos/scandal. This Astros thing, especially if the buzzers are true which I believe they are, would be like if a football team hacked into the other coach’s headset and heard every playcall live and could call it into their own captains on the field in real time. If you told me a team did that to win a super bowl, I would damn sure care.

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    Manfred is looking worse by the day. Fans in major markets still cant legally pay to watch games because of regional restrictions and this guy is concerned about integrating reality television and absolving players of accountability on the biggest scandal since the Blacksox.

    Luckily for us and not so luckily for Altuve, the commissioner of dogshit cant prevent some fastballs to the temple.

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    Rigging the dodgers trade is not acceptable either.

    Where is the public investigation of the Dodgers, Yankees and Red Sox in the cheating scandal?

    Fucking Joker of a commish.

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    Trevor Bauer is a hero.

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    And I am proud to call him a Cincinnati Red!

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    Bauer is great, and he's one of the main reasons I think the buzzer story is true. He said that he heard about the buzzers in Houston from 3 different independent sources within baseball before the rumor broke publicly.

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    So..... ok Loco, think you’re going a bit nutty with posts again.

    First off, yeah, Astros will catch so balls coming their way, but if you think they’re going for the head, on this climate, you really out to stop and think about it. Cuz now you’re saying pitchers are going to put themselves at risk for issues with the league, and that just isn’t happening.

    Dodgers trade being rigged..... (I’m assuming you mean the Betts and Price one) yeah, don’t see it or have any clues where you’re getting that from.

    Red Sox are currently being investigated. That’s why our manager is labeled as “interim”. As for the Dodgers and the Yankees, as far as I recall, they had been looked into, and nothing was found. So what do you want them to do about that? I get that doesn’t mean they aren’t doing anything, but don’t you kind of need something to go on?

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    Brusdar Gaterol was not supposed to be a Dodger. Rig is perhaps extreme but it didnt feel right if you were PAYING ATTENTION.

    The Boston haul was outstanding. No issue there.

    The Dodgers were accused by the Brewers in 2018 of using video tech to steal signs. No investigation that was public or meaningful in any way.

    Beltran the car salesman sat in the Yankees front office the year following what he orchestrated in Houston and he was brought there with winning expectations. Where is the investigation into his activities during his tenure in NY?

    Bellinger gave an awesome interview today and talked about how weak the punishments are and how weak the apologies are and how weak Manfred is. He also mentioned Caito negatively.

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    There is a strong chance that Gaterol becomes the most important piece the Dodgers acquired. Betts gives it the big dick feel, but Gaterol projects as a high end bullpen weapon in a system that achieves pitching results better than nearly anyone.

    Before you lose your mind I am not suggesting that Gaterol is anywhere near the level of player Mookie Betts is.

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    I think you can immediately slot Price in as the best number 5 starter in the NL west.

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    https://twitter.com/BarstoolHubbs/st...799965697?s=20

    https://twitter.com/Jared_Carrabis/s...675137024?s=20

    star players around the league not only trashing the Astros but saying flat out they believe they used buzzers on their bodies.

    and the astros firing back:

    Last edited by Fro; February 15th, 2020 at 5:56 PM.

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    When it comes to the Dodgers or Yankees potentially cheating, there’s a big difference in why either they are being quietly pushed aside or for MLB saying there hasn’t been anything found. The Astros has a guy blow it up in their face. The Red Sox allegedly has three formers players talking to guys at the Athletic. That’s things you can’t ignore. What you can see getting pushed aside more easily is someone saying “We lost, we don’t think we should’ve, they must’ve cheated.” Which is essentially what happened with the Brewers/Dodgers.

    As for the Yankees, unless someone talks, you’re not getting anywhere there either.

    When it comes to Gaterol, you’re right. He shouldn’t be in the Dodgers. But you have the Red Sox to thank for that. They’re the ones that complained about medical records. So I still don’t understand where you are going with that.

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    Yeah, whatever.

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    @Caito, as a fan of a franchise who had to juice up its players to win your first championship in 200 years or whatever, your attitude doesnt surprise me. You guys are currently under multiple investigations, and your team is looking like the Bronze medalists of the cheating scandal.

    I am sorry that you are a fan of cheaters. I'm assuming you were born somewhere in cheatersville, NE. You probably are a deflate-gate denier and I imagine that you refer to David Ortiz only as "Big Papi" .

    Really, it all sounds great.

    Over here in Integrity, USA, we like to build teams who are in the mix every single year, playing the game the right way.

    Good luck in 2020. I have not looked at the projections yet, but you guys may want to call your recently fired manager to make sure he still has the hook on buzzers, otherwise you are FUCKED.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LOCONUT View Post
    @Caito, as a fan of a franchise who had to juice up its players to win your first championship in 200 years or whatever, your attitude doesnt surprise me. You guys are currently under multiple investigations, and your team is looking like the Bronze medalists of the cheating scandal.

    I am sorry that you are a fan of cheaters. I'm assuming you were born somewhere in cheatersville, NE. You probably are a deflate-gate denier and I imagine that you refer to David Ortiz only as "Big Papi" .

    Really, it all sounds great.

    Over here in Integrity, USA, we like to build teams who are in the mix every single year, playing the game the right way.

    Good luck in 2020. I have not looked at the projections yet, but you guys may want to call your recently fired manager to make sure he still has the hook on buzzers, otherwise you are FUCKED.
    This is epic on Ben Maller like levels.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LOCONUT View Post
    @Caito, as a fan of a franchise who had to juice up its players to win your first championship in 200 years or whatever, your attitude doesnt surprise me. You guys are currently under multiple investigations, and your team is looking like the Bronze medalists of the cheating scandal.

    I am sorry that you are a fan of cheaters. I'm assuming you were born somewhere in cheatersville, NE. You probably are a deflate-gate denier and I imagine that you refer to David Ortiz only as "Big Papi" .

    Really, it all sounds great.

    Over here in Integrity, USA, we like to build teams who are in the mix every single year, playing the game the right way.

    Good luck in 2020. I have not looked at the projections yet, but you guys may want to call your recently fired manager to make sure he still has the hook on buzzers, otherwise you are FUCKED.

    Must say, I love how these are all valid and completely on point to the ongoing debate. Bravo, good sir, on your brevity and the rational in which you use to make your very excellent and fact based thoughts on the subject at large.....


    Honestly it really just gave me a chuckle to see when I woke up this am, which I very much appreciated.


    By the way, born in Providence, Rhode Island, and yes, Deflategate was an overblown, bullshit makeup call from a sniveling, pussy of a commissioner to 29 other owners still upset about where cameras where illegally placed from which they could legally video tape years earlier. However, that can be discussed in the appropriate thread, which this is not.

    Sometimes Ortiz, sometimes Big Papi..... really kind of depends on my mood.

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    I am from CA and have zero ties to anything Boston related but I do have a bachelor's degree in Chemistry.

    The Red Sox used steroids to win the first titles this century and Apple Watches and cameras to win these. But Deflate-gate was total bullshit. There is zero physical evidence for what the NFL claimed.

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    Some great takes today from Justin Turner and lesser stars like Trout.

    I'll be very interested to see how Manfred handles the penalties for the teams who throw at them. This could lead to a work stoppage real quick.

    Unbelieveable handling of this.

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    Round 2 for manfred happening shortly via news conference from Arizona. Let's see if he apologizes for calling the trophy a piece of metal or has the balls and intelligence to walk back anything he has done.

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    So seems he couldn’t have done anything to the players because he would have lost the legal challenge hard. But he has handled this horribly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pablo Diablo View Post
    So seems he couldn’t have done anything to the players because he would have lost the legal challenge hard. But he has handled this horribly.
    Could be true, of course it wouldn't surprise me in the least that the commissioner's office is the source of these reports about how bad they would have been smoked on appeal if they tried to suspend players. Seems like pretty convenient timing that right when they are being blasted for not suspending players, sources are saying it was impossible for them to do so.

    The Red Sox investigation is supposedly concluded with an announcement of potential discipline coming this week. That will add more fuel to this clusterfuck. I can't wait.

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    Teixeira had it right. He really should have put the honus on the MLBPA to make a decision between its core members and the cheating outliers. This has now been bungled to the point where the owners may be forced to move on Manfred even though he makes them piles of cash by turning a blind eye to their team budget.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Fro View Post
    Could be true, of course it wouldn't surprise me in the least that the commissioner's office is the source of these reports about how bad they would have been smoked on appeal if they tried to suspend players. Seems like pretty convenient timing that right when they are being blasted for not suspending players, sources are saying it was impossible for them to do so.

    The Red Sox investigation is supposedly concluded with an announcement of potential discipline coming this week. That will add more fuel to this clusterfuck. I can't wait.
    There is zero chance that its going to be any different. I bet the Cora separation is the extent of it.

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    And that will be fine assuming that the Red Sox were not cheating to the extreme extent that the Astros were cheating with direct communication from dugout to batter without need of a baserunner.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fro View Post
    And that will be fine assuming that the Red Sox were not cheating to the extreme extent that the Astros were cheating with direct communication from dugout to batter without need of a baserunner.
    Didn't they already say they were using Apple watches or some other tech?

    It's all so secretive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LOCONUT View Post
    Didn't they already say they were using Apple watches or some other tech?

    It's all so secretive.
    Yes they already got in trouble for apple watches. I believe that was used to relay signals from the video room to the dugout. But the big distinction here, and you guys can let me if I'm off base because I don't claim to completely know what the hell I'm talking about, is direct communication from video room to batter. The Astros did it with a trash can or an electronic buzzer on the batter. They didn't need a runner to be on 2nd base relaying signals because of this. And by putting a new video set up in the stairwell behind the dugout (in earshot of home plate), they didn't need any communication from video room to dugout. The Astros thus bypassed 2 levels of communication needed to steal signs.

    Apple Watch sign stealing:
    Video room to dugout to baserunner to batter (only works with a runner on 2nd)

    Astros sign stealing:
    Video room to batter (works in all situations)

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    The only thing that I cant really wrap my head around is how indignant the Astros players seem. Makes it seem like there is more to come. I saw a note that JD Martinez made comments to the effect that players and fans were overreacting. Feels coincidental. Let's see.

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    All I Have to say is the Dodgers better pray they're squeaky clean on all fronts. They've been making a lot of noise about this, and if anything comes out that even alludes to them cheating, they will get the hammer from the MLB fan base.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Honey_Badger View Post
    All I Have to say is the Dodgers better pray they're squeaky clean on all fronts. They've been making a lot of noise about this, and if anything comes out that even alludes to them cheating, they will get the hammer from the MLB fan base.
    ehhh no one cares because they didn't win a title. I mean maybe they will look a little foolish on baseball twitter/reddit but that's not exactly a "hammer" they need to worry about. they were likely stealing signs with the rest of the league, they have been accused of it too, but this is why I'm stressing the different levels of sign stealing at play here. it's not all the same. I hope that the Red Sox didn't use the same methods the Astros were doing but if they did, I will condemn them as well.

    who knows, I mean other teams very well could have been doing the same kind of stuff as the Astros. but I won't make that assumption. other players being outraged at the Astros seems to imply the opposite - that the Astros were in fact going well above and beyond other teams.
    Last edited by Fro; February 18th, 2020 at 5:46 PM.

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    That's why I said they better hope they weren't doing similar things as the Astros. If they were, they are going to come off as hypocritical in a big way.

    At the end of the day, I love how the Astros are now the villains of Major League Baseball. It should make for a fun season.

    If not the Reds, I hope we get a Houston-LA World Series.

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    Correa is going full heel. Altuve still cowardly heel.

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    I agree with you about the villainy. This scandal is surely bad for the game overall, but in the short term (i.e. the 2020 season) it makes me more interested in the sport than I otherwise would be. An Astros-Yankees or Astros-Dodgers playoff series would be electric.

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    Agree on the levels @Fro. Hopefully the worst has already come out but I dont see how the players and fans just "move on" from this.

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    MLB reaping huge from this. I'll be watching every Astros game I can this season.

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    They are gonna drown out the crowds.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LOCONUT View Post
    They are gonna drown out the crowds.
    They probably will but I wouldn't. Wrestling logic applies here. Let the heels get some heat. It will just get the babyface over bigger in the playoffs.

    Ratings ratings ratings.

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    I cant wait for opening night in Anaheim. Dodgers weirdo fan maniacs club called Pantone294 has supposedly secured thousands of seats to make the Astros feel warmly welcomed.

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    Astros not getting stripped of the title they won then?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Scott View Post
    Astros not getting stripped of the title they won then?
    They get an asterisk. Much like Barry Bonds.

    The players union in baseball is really strong. These are about the worst punishments they can hand out.

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    Fortunately for the Astros, Manfred has become much more of a lighting rod due to his “piece of metal” comment.


    In the short term at least.

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    No doubt Justin Turner is still weeping..

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    Legend Fro's Avatar
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    No doubt he is among an entire league of players who now hate the Astros for cheating their way to a title

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    GP OG Percussion's Avatar
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    Sure there's doubt..

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    Legend LOCONUT's Avatar
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    Well there were other players already coming out saying the reaction was too much, etc. Manfred finally communicated more clearly regarding his position with the MLBPA and it frankly tears down the positions of the star players that have come out against his punishment.

    It doesnt change the fact that the players are right, but it's hard to sit back and say that MLB didnt punish them correctly. This is one of those times when being part of a hyper-powerful union shrouded in secrecy isnt so fun.

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    Legend LOCONUT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Percussion View Post
    No doubt Justin Turner is still weeping..
    I guess. Turner is a pretty thoughtful guy. I'm sure he is annoyed by this but if he is "weeping" about anything it's the most recent playoff elimination following back to back World Series fails.

    Turner is game as fuck. Not known as a complainer whatsoever. Dodgers will be ok in the NL. I am very interested to see how the union issues pan out when MLB hands down suspensions for retaliation.

  95. #2395
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rancid_Planet View Post
    They get an asterisk. Much like Barry Bonds.

    The players union in baseball is really strong. These are about the worst punishments they can hand out.
    So basically it’s a tainted championship that’s not wiped from the records.

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    Legend Fro's Avatar
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    I think a case could be made to vacate the title if there was indisputable evidence that they cheated during the World Series using trash cans or buzzers, and it was done repeatedly throughout the series. Banning them from the playoffs for a year or two would be another punishment that would make sense.

    If they really want to solve this sign stealing issue once and for all, couldn't they just give the pitcher and catcher some form of electronic communication like the buzzers the Astros used?

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    Legend LOCONUT's Avatar
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    Players Union denied Manfreds claim that the players were given immunity because of a stalemate in the negotiations.

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    Temet Nosce Caito's Avatar
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    Friday needs to get here. Sox play at Wrigley this summer, over a weekend. Never been to Chicago, so this seems like a great time for a weekend trip. Might even bring the golf clubs and go play Harborside.

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    Intercontinental Champion BigAl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caito View Post
    Friday needs to get here. Sox play at Wrigley this summer, over a weekend. Never been to Chicago, so this seems like a great time for a weekend trip. Might even bring the golf clubs and go play Harborside.
    Go to Spring Training and hit some of the courses down there in between games.

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    Temet Nosce Caito's Avatar
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    Would love to, but I’m also potentially doing some time in England this year, plus multiple long weekend trips to Saratoga this year. Can only take off so much time from work.


    Plus I just got back from playing Bay Hill a few weeks ago, so took a long weekend for that.

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