Baseball

[Pablo Diablo]

Bonds started taking after the Sosa and McGwire HR chase got more attention than the other great season he was having. He was already a HoF player at that point.
Clemens also probably was a HoF before he started taking.

Either way just because they are two of the most linked unless you refuse to accept anyone from this time period before drug testing started then you have to let the two of them in.

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Also Halladay's wife saying Doc is going to go in without any team on his cap is very disappointing.

[Smeagol]

Disappointing to me, too. When I think back of the team Halladay had the biggest impact with it was, by far, with Toronto.

[Pablo Diablo]

Still going to Cooperstown for the ceremony mind.

[Fro]

He should defintiely go in as a blue jay, did she give reasoning? I forget if he had a contentious departure from Toronto.

[_me]

He should defintiely go in as a blue jay, did she give reasoning? I forget if he had a contentious departure from Toronto.

I would imagine it is just that his most famous moments were with the Phillies. But I agree he should be a Jay.

[Morrison]

He should defintiely go in as a blue jay, did she give reasoning? I forget if he had a contentious departure from Toronto.

I would imagine it is just that his most famous moments were with the Phillies. But I agree he should be a Jay.

he asked specifically to be traded to philly so he could get an opportunity in the postseason. i imagine there's a level of respect there from the family for giving him that chance.

[Pablo Diablo]

Having slept on it the reason why I'm so disappointed is because the Jays only have one player in the hall with our cap (Alomar). It had always seemed like a lock that Doc would go in as one and now that he's not the Jays will likely stay at just the one. I know there are teams that don't have any so I guess I should be glad we have the one but still.

[Kneeneighbor]

He literally signed a contract with Toronto so he could retire as a Blue Jay.

[NWo4LifeOr2Years]

I would put Shoeless Joe in before Pete Rose, and well before Clemens and Bonds.

I am glad that Clemens and Bonds have to keep waiting.

I am happy about Mussina, but kind of surprised because I always thought of him as belonging in the Hall of Very Very Good.

Please explain your logic of why a guy who admitted throwing the championship of his sport, sold out his teammates should be in before a guy who hustled his whole career and threw down some bets FOR his team winning as manager. Never a word on his most excellent playing career. (Joe Jackson and Pete Rose in case history alludes you)

[3puppies]

Shoeless Joe admitted to having heard about the his teammates' plan to get paid to throw the championship, but he never admitted to throwing it himself. His own performance in the series was unquestionable.

Pete Rose was a great ballplayer, but it was because of the Black Sox scandal that it was made crystal clear to all baseball players that they were expressly forbidden to gamble, in any way, on baseball games. In that respect, I think Joe was stuck in an impossible situation beyond his control.

Pete Rose had the ability to alter the outcome of a game, as a manager. Betting FOR his own team on some games, and NOT betting on them in on other games, could tip off those who he bet with, that he may not have been trying to win every game.

I would have less a problem if they let Pete Rose in posthumously, but only if they would let Shoeless Joe in first (or perhaps at the same time)

I like Bob Costas' longtime suggestion that since the HOF is also a museum, they should have a plaque that describes the changes in the game, and how the eras are not comparable. The change in the pitching mound after 1968 had its desired affect, and the ignoring of the rampant use of steroids by many players from the 90's to the early 2000's, is also immeasurable. This would allow them to honor the on-field accomplishments of some of the game's great players.

[Honey_Badger]

Pete Rose is scum.

[Fro]

Pete Rose is scum.

seems harsh. just for betting on his own team?

if he bet against his own team I'd agree.

[Honey_Badger]

seems harsh. just for betting on his own team?

if he bet against his own team I'd agree.

Have you ever read up on this? https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.a937d9c70e20

Great guy, he is. I live in Cincinnati, so it's a pretty common topic of discussion here, one that is firmly two sides with no gray area.

[Kneeneighbor]

So if you bet on your own team 3 times a week and do not bet on them the other 3 times what does that mean @Fro?

Any time he doesn't bet it opens up the questions that maybe he gave his better player the day off that day or maybe he left his best arm in the pen for someone else.

[Fro]

Have you ever read up on this? https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.a937d9c70e20

Great guy, he is. I live in Cincinnati, so it's a pretty common topic of discussion here, one that is firmly two sides with no gray area.

no I was not aware of this. that's not good.

So if you bet on your own team 3 times a week and do not bet on them the other 3 times what does that mean @Fro?

Any time he doesn't bet it opens up the questions that maybe he gave his better player the day off that day or maybe he left his best arm in the pen for someone else.

yea that's fair and I'm not saying it should be allowed. I think banning him from baseball was the right move but I think it's lasted long enough. don't let him be employed by the MLB or a team mind you, but I would let him in the hall. let him make appearances at games at such.

[Honey_Badger]

He comes to plenty of Reds games. It’s funny, he was interviewed by Fox Sports Ohio during a game and tried to make a bet with the interviewer that Billy Hamilton would steal second base. He doesn’t learn. He hasn’t changed. He is still a scheming, nasty fella who should never be permitted into the Hall. We have to draw a line somewhere. I’d put Bonds in the Hall WAY before I put Rose in.

[chrisrandolph1985]

I respect any man who can take a Tombstone Piledriver as well as he did.

[Fro]

He comes to plenty of Reds games. It’s funny, he was interviewed by Fox Sports Ohio during a game and tried to make a bet with the interviewer that Billy Hamilton would steal second base. He doesn’t learn. He hasn’t changed. He is still a scheming, nasty fella who should never be permitted into the Hall. We have to draw a line somewhere. I’d put Bonds in the Hall WAY before I put Rose in.

ok fine u changed my mind

[3puppies]

I respect any man who can take a Tombstone Piledriver as well as he did.

Well, he did get into the Hall of Fame for that. Maybe not the Baseball HOF, but the WWE HOF has its own share of undeserving pretenders.

[Kneeneighbor]

You mean like KoKo B Ware and the Godfather?

[Rancid_Planet]

Pete Rose will go in just as soon as he dies.

[3puppies]

You mean like KoKo B Ware and the Godfather?

I meant more like Drew Carey, Kid Rock, Arnold Schwarzenegger. At least Pete Rose appeared in the WWE several times, and wasn't there to promote something else.

I was never a huge fan of Koko D Ware myself, but back when I was in college, I rented an apartment and he was my landlady's absolute favorite. She regularly went to the Garden to see the matches, and she brought a Koko sign with her, which he autographed, and he even gave her a feather. She was a sweet older woman who told me her daughter "thinks that wrestling is all fake, but I know it is real!" Bless her heart.

[NWo4LifeOr2Years]

So I stopped by to visit my dad after the surgeons today . He's 80 and I asked his opinion of the HoF voting and of course he was on board with Mariano and Haladay (Martyrdom always = elevaltion to legendary status in whatever field the deceased was in, whether Doc may have taken a few years to get in if alive)....
He wasn't down with Martinez and especially Messina but the funniest part was when I asked him about Harold Baines. He had no idea Baines had been let in and could not believe it nor understand "what the hell Harold Baines ever did to get elected to the Hall of Fame. They're getting a little carried away watering down the criteria here."

I must say for a change I agree 100% with my father..

[BigAl]

Just got my Spring Training tickets for a couple games in March. Seeing the Mets vs Marlins and Yankees vs Astros. Can't wait.

[Smeagol]

Sounds awesome. Do you take a yearly visit for the games?

[BigAl]

We've gone down three of the last four years. For my money I'd rather see a spring training game than a regular season, I think. The atmosphere is so much more relaxed and the seats are better.

[Smeagol]

http://www.floridagrapefruitleague.com/

Check that link, if you haven't seen it yet. They do a really nice job with the ST booklets and schedules and I've gotten them the past five years (they're free). I haven't been for ST in about 8 or 9 years myself but we mostly went over to Clearwater/St. Pete area I believe it was. Phillies, Yanks. Enjoy the atmosphere a lot more than the regular season games as well.

[BigAl]

We're in the West Palm/Jupiter area so we're not that far from where you were. You really can't beat it.

[Pablo Diablo]

There could be some huge changes coming to the league as early as this coming season

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/2...ges-alter-game

[BigAl]

I like the idea of starting a man on 2nd for extra inning games. I wouldn't mind starting the 11th inning with men on base and a 1-1 count on the batter, just to speed things up.

[Kneeneighbor]

I think all of the extra inning ideas are beyond stupid. No one is going to sit through the first 10 inning of a tie game and go, damn I wish this would wrap up. Those people have already checked out. The people who watch 9 innings are not getting bored in the 10th.

The only argument against it is it messes with your bullpen usage. But the response to that is dont change pitchers every other batter and you will be fine. Or if its that devastating then just concede the game and put a position player into pitch. (No one would do that which tells you it doesnt change much besides the next game)

[Fro]

I don't see that "man on 2nd" extra innings rule mentioned in the article, but I'm in favor of it. Extra inning games are so fucking long. Do NOT start the count at 1-1, that would be too weird. But at the start of the 11th, put the last batter to record an out on 1st base. At the start of the 12th and all future innings, put the last batter to record an out on 2nd base. That's how I'd do it.

In regard to the changes mentioned in the article, without going into them one by one I will say I'm glad they're looking to make these types of changes. The game could use some tweaking.

[BigAl]

The extra inning rule was one that started in MiLB last year, it wasn't in that article. I read somewhere that MLB is considering trying it at some point to see the effect it would have on the game.

[Pablo Diablo]

I'm good with the extra inning rule being in the minors and in exhibition games. There is no need for those games to go very long because they truly don't matter and no need to use up pitcher's arms for meaningless games. But I never want to see this in the big leagues.

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I think the minimum of 3 batter rule is the more out there one.

[BigAl]

RIP Frank Robinson.

[BigAl]

The Realmuto trade saga is finally over as he's been traded to the Phillies.

[Honey_Badger]

Great trade for the Phillies. Much needed upgrade. One last thing for them to do, and that's sign Harper.

[3puppies]

RIP Frank Robinson.

Very sad to hear this. More people should know about him.

I heard an interview from the head of the Negro League museum who told the story about how competitive Frank Robinson, and all the black ballplayers were, because they knew they had to be better than the white players in order to keep their job. Frank would say

"If Henry (Aaron) went out and hit a home run, I went out and hit a home run. So Henry went out and hit two home runs. And I went and hit two home runs. Then Henry went and hit three home runs. And I had hit two home runs....."

But my favorite was the old Lite beer commercial with Brooks Robinson - they were not identical twins
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...04CD&FORM=VIRE