Ben Affleck has apparently working on a script for a Batman movie. And it's supposedly going into production this spring. DC stuff is happening so fast and furious that it's really hard to keep up.
What does everyone want to see? I wasn't a big fan of Batman vs. Superman, but I thought Affleck did really well as Batman and the issues with that movie were all the other stuff. Jared Leto's Joker seems like the natural villain. Deathstroke is in the movie. J.K. Simmons is Commissioner Gordon.
The thing I find weird is they've skipped so much big stuff in Batman's career. Robin is dead. Which Robin? We don't really know. It feels like there's a ton of backstory to be filled in. Who has he already fought in this universe?
Love to hear anyone else's thoughts on Batman too. My personal Batman movie rankings:
1) The Dark Knight
2) Batman Begins
3) The Dark Knight Rises
4) Batman (1989)
5) Batman Returns
6) Batman Forever
7) Batman vs. Superman
8) Batman and Robin
your rankings are solid. I would probably just flip Batman and Batman Returns.
Affleck's Batman movie seems to have an indefinite production start. A month ago he said "It’s not a set thing and there’s no script. If it doesn’t come together in a way I think is really great I’m not going to do it.” But this week he said:
so he seems set on directing it but I wouldn't count on the script being ready by the spring. I sort of feel bad for him... BvS was just so bad and now it's basically on him to make his Batman tenure not a joke.
Yeah, the timeline seems crazy to me that the script isn't done and they're going to start filming in a couple months. It would really be nice if they'd take their time with this and get it right, but DC wants their film universe right fucking now.
I like Affleck in the role and the older, grizzled Batman works well for the Justice League. It just feels like we skipped all the good stuff. Robin dying is one of the most important things in the Batman mythos and it's already happened. Harvey Dent is presumably already Two Face. Did Bane break his back? A lot of the mystery is what's already happened to the character at this point.
I think my dream would be either a really high budget Batman TV series or just a long series of movies that went through his whole career. Like twelve or so movies. First one is him at the very beginning, second one introduces Joker, third one Robin comes in. Dick Grayson becomes Nightwing, Jason Todd becomes Robin, Jason Todd gets killed. Bring in Bane, do a movie with Ra's al Ghul. End it with a Dark Knight Returns adaptation.
To me the Batman series should probably just be like James Bond where it just keeps going and going. Maybe every 20 years or so you have to start over.
Are you watching Gotham? I just picked up the first season, and even my non-comic reading, couldn't-give-a-shit-about-superheroes wife loves it.
Yeah, I don't hate it but don't love it. Have seen the first two seasons, haven't seen much of this season. It's had some good episodes but also a lot that didn't click.
As someone who podcasts about Gotham its frustratingly good. They have done a great job with almost everyone, but Gordon. The actor who plays Gordon just doesn't get it. I also feel the scripts are designed with Batman in mind, but Gordon does all the stuff Batman should do. They also have too many characters and plot moving around that stories seem to come and go. I am also not a fan of Barbara's gang this season. They need to cut that fat. Having said that, God Damn do I love everything else including Penguin, Riddler and the kids. Plus, Court of Owls this season has been a nice slow burn.
Penguin was the one real standout for me. Totally different take on the character and great performance by Robin Lord Taylor. Nygma was good too once he actually became Riddler, was just annoying before that.
Oh, and I love their version of Alfred too. Just can't get into the Bruce stories. And the show is really tonally uneven. Some weeks it's gritty, some weeks absurdist, some weeks more comic booky.
The joker tease I thought was really well done. He wasn't the joker but perhaps the inspiration for joker.
I honestly have nothing but good things to say about Gotham. I like the different elements of the show. I like the gritty, the camp and the reality behind certain episodes. It seems to jump around based on the baddies whosr style and flair just influence the whole episode. At times it reminds me of a guest director who brings their style to a TV show.
I like the timeless setting for Batman. That was one thing was really cool about the Burton movies and the animated series. Nolan's movies very clearly took place in the present day and that's fine, but I like a semi-1930s atmosphere for Batman. It just feels like he should exist in the film noir era.
When Affleck's head is in the game, and he's committed fully to a project, the dude is one of the best in business. Look no further than Hollywoodland, Gone Baby Gone, State of Play, The Town and Argo. That said, he also has a tendency to produce absolute shit films. Honestly, a Batman flick with Affleck at the lead is going to either be a massive success of a box office disaster, there is no happy medium.
Personally, I wish they'd stop with all the superhero remakes and stick to originality for a bit. Spider-Man is on it's what, 4th reboot now since 2000?
What's the consensus on the current Batman titles? I dropped collecting monthlies when DC went to the New 52, but I'd been following since I was 8, somewhere between the Marshall Rogers/Denny O'Neil 'Tec Issues, a Hawkman B&B team-up and the Many Deaths of the Batman in his main title.
Anybody have thoughts on the Gotham City Sirens movie? Harley Quinn and probably Poison Ivy and Catwoman would be the main characters. Harley was obviously the breakout character from Suicide Squad so I'm not shocked she's getting her own movie. Seems fair to assume that we'll get a Batman cameo in that movie, wouldn't shock me if maybe this was where we get Batgirl introduced in the hopes of spinning her off to her own movie.
Does feel like they're risking going too heavy on Batman with the solo Batman movie and GCS in the same year, plus Justice League in 2017 and who knows how many other camoes Affleck is going to have as Batman. At this point I sort of just assume he's going to turn up in every DC movie, he's clearly the Tony Stark of DC. Which is totally cool with me, Batman is the biggest star and narratively Batman is the most experienced crime fighter and Bruce has the resources to be leading everything.
Thoughts on the casting of Catwoman and Poison Ivy? I'm not really a big casting guy, but the one thing that interests me is how old the actress they cast as Catwoman is and how she's portrayed. Is this a veteran Catwoman since we've got a veteran Batman in this universe? My guess is we get a younger actress. It would be a bit odd to have a brand new Catwoman in this universe where Batman has been active for 20 years, but that might just be how they roll. Otherwise you could have Catwoman as sort of a maternal or big sister figure to Harley.
Yeah, DC just sort of throws shit at the wall and sees if it sticks. The only movies making big bank at this point at film franchises, so it is an imperative that they pump out as many of them as possible. Batman vs. Superman had to do about a million things and the movie definitely suffered as a result. They introduced the new Batman, progressed Superman, brought in the new Lex Luthor, and introduced Wonder Woman, Flash, Cyborg, and Aquaman in the span of 2.5 hours. The movie wasn't particularly good, but they managed to skip about five years worth of movies in the process. The Justice League trailer looked promising, maybe they can get things together.
I think Justice League sort of makes or breaks the universe as a whole. If Justice League doesn't do big business there's no way they're making a Flash or Cyborg movie. If Justice League doesn't get over I think they probably slow things down and just roll with Affleck's Batman, maybe see what they can get out of Superman (I don't know how much juice there is left in that brand at this point). They've pretty much killed Green Lantern too, skeptical if that movie is going to happen.
I am very excited for Lego Batman. Ranking Batman films, I'd go:
1. Dark Knight
2. Begins
3. Dark knights rises
4. Return of the Joker
5. Batman Forever
6. Batman 66
7. Under the red hood
8. Mask of the phantasm
9. Batman 89
10. Batman and Robin
11. Batman Returns
12. Batman v Superman
im not a big fan of the Tim burton movies. I don't care for the style. Christopher Nolan's Batman trilogy is the best movie trilogy for me. Better than Star Wars, LOTR, BTTF, whatever else comes in 3s. Return of the Joker is an amazing animated film and one of the finest Batman creations ever.
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i honestly find it hard to believe batman v superman ranks so low for people, at least batman fans. im a big, big fan of it. iit doesnt beat any of the nolan movies, not even close, but it's definitely on the upper or mid-tier for me in rank.
Last edited by Morrison; January 14th, 2017 at 12:28 AM.
1. The Dark Knight
2. Batman Begins
3. Dark Knight Rises
4. Mask of the phantasm
5. Under the red hood
6. Batman 66
7. Batman Returns
8. Return of the Joker
9. Batman 89
10. Batman v Superman
11. Batman Forever
12. Batman and Robin
That would be my ranking at present of the ones Hero mentioned. Used to like Forever a lot but it's become more jarring than Batman & Robin for me (at least that movie didn't take anything seriously.) Love the animated films. Returns is a mess as a Batman movie, but I like it and always have. The 60s Batman is so wonderfully goofy that I'll never get enough of it.
Batman v. Superman is weird. I saw it twice (once in theaters and then the extended cut) and found the director's edition much better but think it would have been better served by being half an hour shorter. It has a lot of redundant scenes, like Batman going on a rampage in his car to steal kryptonite only to not get the kryptonite and then steal it off camera two minutes later. Something like that could have been streamlined. As could the dream sequences. Only need one dream sequence. That said, Affleck was the bomb and I want more of him. The bit with him rescuing WHY DID YOU SAY THAT NAME was fantastic.
It was really weird. They had a 30 minute prologue that seemed like it was going to serve to establish Batgirl before she got paralyzed and make the story more about her. Instead, she ended up being lovesick for Batman. And her and Bruce end up having sex after they get in a fight. And because Bruce doesn't call her afterward she quits being Batgirl. And then the rest of the story is the comic.
They also throw in random shit like a scene where Batman talks to prostitutes who tell him that Joker normally comes to them right after he gets out but didn't this time. Implying that he raped Barbara after he shot her, I guess? This was somehow even more fucked up than the comic. Really didn't care for it.
Also, rumor is that The Batman has been pushed back. Batman on Film has a source saying that it's probably not shooting until this summer at the earliest, making a 2018 summer release unlikely. My guess would be that the script just isn't done and Affleck doesn't want to rush into it.
Return of the Caped Crusaders is loads of fun. I loved the animation style and the various nods to Batman's history. It has some genuinely funny lines, especially when they make reference to the ending of The Dark Knight Rises. But I loved this bit:
Batman: Good job. Your grasp of the dead languages has improved. Robin: No language can be dead if it lives in your heart.
Anyone checked out the writer's bible for Batman: The Animated Series? Lots of concept art and it's really interesting to see how they planned their approach to certain things from the very beginning - the lack of focus on his origin story, the emphasis on Bruce as the disguise and how they wanted to structure each episode. The link to the full document is below - it's been available for many years now - but io9 did a nice summary yesterday:
I don't understand how any Batman fan can't enjoy the Tim Burton Batman films. The German Expressionist aesthetics are amazing. Anton Furst's set design in Batman '89 is a personal favorite of mine. Returns looks more like it was shot on a sound stage, but it's still visually interesting. Gotham actually feels like a character in those films. The city looks like the kind of haunted metropolis that you'd imagine a crime fighter dressed like a bat would inhabit.
One of the things that's always drawn me to Batman is that he's perceived as a freak and an outcast and that he uses that perception to his advantage. Burton actually treats Batman and the villains like freaks and oddballs. For whatever reason, that approach to those characters always resonated with me.
When I saw Batman 89 in a theater, I really didn't like the end. The fight was way too short and the movie was too dark. Of course, I grew up on the Batman TV show where everything was bright. and the fights went over forever After I read Dark Knight Returns, I had a better appreciation of the movie. I just wish Keaton got more time as Bruce and Batman. He might as well be a cameo in Batman Returns. To me, the animated movies are just as good as some of the live action ones. Return of the Joker is such a brilliant story.
Yeah, to me there are a few big flaws in the Burton movies:
-The movies aren't really about Batman, they're about the villains. Batman gets very little character arc over the course of the two movies. This is actually something Batman Forever did a decent job of (better in the pre-cutdown version), giving Bruce a real character arc and making the movie about him. I feel like there are more scenes in both movies with the villains and without Bruce/Batman than there are scenes with Bruce/Batman but without the villains.
-Lack of relationship between Batman and Gordon. They don't share any scenes in 89, have one quick scene in Returns. Gordon as a whole barely plays any role in the movies.
-I'm not a hardliner on Batman killing people, but he straight up murders a guy in Batman Returns and laughs about it. Also sets the one guy on fire in the opening attack on Gotham Square. They sort of retroactively cover this in Batman Forever when he talks about how killing Joker didn't fix things, but it's another thing that should have been a real character arc in the movie.
I'm coming off a lot more negative here than I actually am about them. I like both of them, especially Batman (Returns is a little bit too much of a Tim Burton movie to me). They're still the most significant Batman movies in the sense that the reestablished Batman as a dark character to the general public. I'd probably give Batman a B+ and Returns a B- overall.
The positives to the Burton films is they made Batman into a dark character instead of the TV Batman. Burton did a great job of also making Batman believable with armor suits and practical weapons. He really did ground the character, so in the Nolan films they can go back to that. I get Burton didn't want to deal too much with Gordon when he rather play with his freaks. That opens the door for Oldman to just absolutely nail that character. As much as I love Superman I and II, I think the best movies DC has done is the Batman Nolan trilogy. Its really tough, because I feel everyone just copies Superman I especially Marvel.
When I saw Batman 89 in a theater, I really didn't like the end. The fight was way too short and the movie was too dark. Of course, I grew up on the Batman TV show where everything was bright. and the fights went over forever After I read Dark Knight Returns, I had a better appreciation of the movie. I just wish Keaton got more time as Bruce and Batman. He might as well be a cameo in Batman Returns. To me, the animated movies are just as good as some of the live action ones. Return of the Joker is such a brilliant story.
Keaton is in Batman Returns more than you're letting on. One of the writers clearly had a particular affinity for Catwoman, but the movie is still about Batman and how he relates to the Penguin and Catwoman.
Originally Posted by The Law
Yeah, to me there are a few big flaws in the Burton movies:
-The movies aren't really about Batman, they're about the villains. Batman gets very little character arc over the course of the two movies. This is actually something Batman Forever did a decent job of (better in the pre-cutdown version), giving Bruce a real character arc and making the movie about him. I feel like there are more scenes in both movies with the villains and without Bruce/Batman than there are scenes with Bruce/Batman but without the villains.
-Lack of relationship between Batman and Gordon. They don't share any scenes in 89, have one quick scene in Returns. Gordon as a whole barely plays any role in the movies.
-I'm not a hardliner on Batman killing people, but he straight up murders a guy in Batman Returns and laughs about it. Also sets the one guy on fire in the opening attack on Gotham Square. They sort of retroactively cover this in Batman Forever when he talks about how killing Joker didn't fix things, but it's another thing that should have been a real character arc in the movie.
I'm coming off a lot more negative here than I actually am about them. I like both of them, especially Batman (Returns is a little bit too much of a Tim Burton movie to me). They're still the most significant Batman movies in the sense that the reestablished Batman as a dark character to the general public. I'd probably give Batman a B+ and Returns a B- overall.
He doesn't laugh at the strongman thug's death, but he does flash him a great shit-eating grin after attaching the bomb to him. That dude is almost certainly dead, but it occurs off screen and the explosion is pretty cartoonish. I thought Batman lighting the fire breathing devil goon on fire came off as more cold-blooded.
The positives to the Burton films is they made Batman into a dark character instead of the TV Batman. Burton did a great job of also making Batman believable with armor suits and practical weapons. He really did ground the character, so in the Nolan films they can go back to that. I get Burton didn't want to deal too much with Gordon when he rather play with his freaks. That opens the door for Oldman to just absolutely nail that character. As much as I love Superman I and II, I think the best movies DC has done is the Batman Nolan trilogy. Its really tough, because I feel everyone just copies Superman I especially Marvel.
One thing that Burton accomplished whether deliberately or unintentionally was making Batman an elusive hero. Many people point out that Batman '89 concentrated heavily on Joker and Batman Returns did the same with Catwoman and Penguin. This is quite true, really. Instead of making the villains elusive the villains were analyzed closely. Joker's relationships in business and life led him to becoming a clown... Catwoman's sexuality broke out because of an incident that had her in the wrong place at the wrong time... Penguin was born a freak who wanted revenge on society. Instead of the films concentrating on the hero they made him indistinguishable from darkness itself: difficult to grasp and frightens us exactly because we know so little about it.
Last edited by Venom_Axe; January 14th, 2017 at 6:12 PM.
You're just about the only person I've ever heard say they like Begins more than The Dark Knight. Would be interested to hear why you like Begins more.
Because it's a batman film, it's a superhero film, it's an origin story and it's an incredibly good one.
The Dark Knight is a vehicle for The Joker. It's a heist movie and a crime thriller, it's not a comic book movie to me, it's a little bit of a fanboy classic I think. It's great, but it's not a patch on Begins which is a perfect superhero film.
Its not that uncommon a school of thought either, a lot of people think this way.
TDK vs BB... both are excellent, I don't fault anyone for putting one ahead of the other. Ledger's Joker is one of the greatest villains of all time so saying it was a vehicle for that characters isn't a knock against it. I still love watching his scenes whenever TDK is on TV. Naturally the Batman origin movie is more about Batman than the movie that followed it where he is already established.
In terms of TDK not being a comic book movie... I guess since I don't read comic books I can't really dispute that but I disagree. I also don't think it's a heist movie. The opening scene is a heist, not sure how the rest of the movie is. Joker's intention was to show that there's cruelty in everyone, even Batman, and to cause chaos and all that. Not to steal a bunch of money.
Because it's a batman film, it's a superhero film, it's an origin story and it's an incredibly good one.
The Dark Knight is a vehicle for The Joker. It's a heist movie and a crime thriller, it's not a comic book movie to me, it's a little bit of a fanboy classic I think. It's great, but it's not a patch on Begins which is a perfect superhero film.
Its not that uncommon a school of thought either, a lot of people think this way.
The Dark Knight is about Batman/Bruce Wayne. I think anyone that watches that movie and thinks it's about The Joker might be missing the point.
I don't know how you can call it a heist movie either. Because of the bank robbery sequence at the beginning? I've seen the movie an embarrassing amount of times, so I'm going to feel like a dope if I'm missing something that makes it a heist film.
There are plenty of people who think Batman Begins is the superior film, though. I don't know. They're both phenomenal to me.
I don't understand how any Batman fan can't enjoy the Tim Burton Batman films. The German Expressionist aesthetics are amazing. Anton Furst's set design in Batman '89 is a personal favorite of mine. Returns looks more like it was shot on a sound stage, but it's still visually interesting. Gotham actually feels like a character in those films. The city looks like the kind of haunted metropolis that you'd imagine a crime fighter dressed like a bat would inhabit.
One of the things that's always drawn me to Batman is that he's perceived as a freak and an outcast and that he uses that perception to his advantage. Burton actually treats Batman and the villains like freaks and oddballs. For whatever reason, that approach to those characters always resonated with me.
I want to talk about Batman Returns for a second...
Great acting, great set design, great costumes, great music, etc...
Complete dogshit script...
It's about a klutzy woman who falls out of a window and learns karate and I guess has nine lives because she's a cat? And then a fat short hooked nosed man who floats down a river in a basket, tries to kill all of the first born sons, and actively tries to ruin Christmas...
Returns being a semi-compentant movie is due how shitty comic book movies were at the time including Forever and Batman/Robin. I like Begins a bit better than Dark Knight, but man is Katie Holmes miscast.
I want to talk about Batman Returns for a second...
Great acting, great set design, great costumes, great music, etc...
Complete dogshit script...
It's about a klutzy woman who falls out of a window and learns karate and I guess has nine lives because she's a cat? And then a fat short hooked nosed man who floats down a river in a basket, tries to kill all of the first born sons, and actively tries to ruin Christmas...
What the actual fuck?
I don't think the script is that bad. There's some pretty fun bits of dialogue in the movie.
I've grown to love the instances of batshit insanity that you're talking about.
The firstborn sons thing is really insane. Gotham seems to be a really big city. Probably a couple million people. How many firstborn sons are there? Maybe they were only going after infants? Even so, there would have to be thousands. They can't possibly kidnap and transport all of them in one night. Maybe it was just the firstborn sons of wealthy families? I don't think that was explicitly stated, but that would have made sense with Penguin having a grudge against high society.
And then the army of penguins with their missiles. No mention to that point in the movie of anything like that, guess he just had all the gear lying around. I think that was a late addition to the script because the studio felt like Penguin needed a masterplan. They thought about having him freeze the city, which they came back to with Mr. Freeze in Batman and Robin.
Other early draft gems from Batman Returns: Harvey Dent was going to be in the Max Schreck role and get scarred at the end by the electricity. And one of the Wayans brothers was going to play Robin.
The firstborn sons thing is really insane. Gotham seems to be a really big city. Probably a couple million people. How many firstborn sons are there? Maybe they were only going after infants? Even so, there would have to be thousands. They can't possibly kidnap and transport all of them in one night. Maybe it was just the firstborn sons of wealthy families? I don't think that was explicitly stated, but that would have made sense with Penguin having a grudge against high society.
It's so he can be Evil Moses on Christmas...
Last edited by Bill Casey; January 14th, 2017 at 9:05 PM.
Not that I remember, but it's been years since I've watched it. Like I said, it makes a lot more sense logistically for him to just go after the sons of wealthy and famous families.
I think the Max Schreck/Harvey Dent thing has been debunked. It was always meant to be Max Schreck, I believe. I could be wrong, though. Honestly, I'm glad they went with Schreck because megalomaniacal tycoons with political aspirations are pretty timely boogeymen at the moment.
Daniel Waters, who re-wrote the script: "Sam Hamm definitely planned that. I flirted with it, having Harvey start to come back and have one scene of him where he flips a coin and it's the good side of the coin, deciding not to do anything, so you had to wait for the next movie."
That quote doesn't really bring a lot of clarity. The Batman 2 script that I can find online doesn't have Dent in it.
Also in one of the drafts of the script Schreck was going to be Penguin's older brother.
Schreck makes more sense than Dent would have. Dent being an evil schemer before being scarred would have been weird.
Last edited by The Law; January 14th, 2017 at 11:50 PM.
The original Batman Returns synopsis can be found in a Wizards Magazine from way back in the day. The plot was to have Penguin as a crime lord and Catwoman as a jewel thief. Everyone is after a bunch of bird statues that have clues about a treasure involving the first families of Gotham. Oswald and Bruce are part of the first family. Vickie returns and there are more mentions of Joker. Robin plays a big part as he is part of the circus that Penguin acquires. Dick's parents are murdered to keep them quiet. Vickie and Batman are hanging again by their fingers on a tall building like in Batman '89 via Catwoman this time. There is no real love story with Bruce and Selina. The end is a huge fight with the dynamic duo vs the Penguin's circus. It would have had a new Batmobile too.
That is what I vaguely remember reading it as a kid. When I read it, I was stunned how much better it was than the movie I saw.
Last edited by lotjx; January 14th, 2017 at 11:57 PM.
And because I was just reading about the unproduced Batman 2 script, here are some details:
-There are some similarities to what became Batman Returns: takes place at Christmas time, villains are Catwoman and Penguin, they frame Batman for murders.
-The central plot involves some owl statues that open a chamber with a bunch of valuables in it. Like they're owned by the powerful families of Gotham (including the Waynes). Penguin is a thief who wants the statues so that he can steal the money or jewels or whatever is in the chamber.
-It turns out the other families conspired to kill the Waynes because Thomas was uncomfortable with the stolen fortune and they were worried he was going to rat them out.
-Robin is a street kid who loves Batman.
-Vicki Vale is in the movie.
On the whole, it seems a lot simpler and more of a straightforward comic book movie. Not nearly as deep or artistic as Returns, would have been a lot less controversial. I can understand why Burton hated it.
I think I remember reading the climactic showdown in the early script for Batman 2 took place at Wayne Manor. Bruce, Vicki and Robin would have formed a family unit at the end. That sounds too sappy for my tastes.
I'm glad we got Batman Returns' bizarre freak show instead.
Here's a small issue I have with Returns: the clown themed henchmen. Wouldn't it have made more sense to use clown thugs in the first movie when the villain was actually a fucking clown?
i honestly find it hard to believe batman v superman ranks so low for people, at least batman fans. im a big, big fan of it. iit doesnt beat any of the nolan movies, not even close, but it's definitely on the upper or mid-tier for me in rank.
Fuck it. You are a clown if you're somehow mystified by folks disliking Batman V Superman.
Jesus, "Live By Night" is bombing. Rotten Tomatoes score 33%, only $5 million opening weekend. Wouldn't surprise me if that's part of Affleck's Batman movie being pushed back, he's got to be rattled by a passion project of his failing like that. Definitely seemed like they were rushing the movie trying to start filming this spring. Pushing it back to at least the summer gives them a chance to see how Wonder Woman does and they can have a better idea of where the film universe stands. If Wonder Woman fails then it's all in on Justice League.
I think the only thing that would stop an Affleck Batman movie is if he decided he didn't want to do it. Batman is Warner Brothers top franchise, Affleck is the only guy out there who could write, direct, and star as Batman who also happens to be a big Batman fan and big movie star.
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Originally Posted by Beer-Belly
Fuck it. You are a clown if you're somehow mystified by folks disliking Batman V Superman.
i'll gladly accept being a clown then. if people can accept and put batman and robin over it, then i feel sorry for them. and i enjoy batman and robin. the criticisms of BVS are so overblown, but not surprising.
I think I remember reading the climactic showdown in the early script for Batman 2 took place at Wayne Manor. Bruce, Vicki and Robin would have formed a family unit at the end. That sounds too sappy for my tastes.
I'm glad we got Batman Returns' bizarre freak show instead.
Here's a small issue I have with Returns: the clown themed henchmen. Wouldn't it have made more sense to use clown thugs in the first movie when the villain was actually a fucking clown?
Without Burton returning to direct they may have gone forward with Hamm's script for Batman 2. It's a direct sequel to the original Batman and has Vicki Vale returning. Penguin and Catwoman are still the villains, but there's no Schreck. And Dick Grayson is a character, but he's never called Robin. Everything I've heard about it has suggested it was a script in need of revision. But it was because of Burton they chucked the whole thing out and started over rather than trying to fix the old script.
i'll gladly accept being a clown then. if people can accept and put batman and robin over it, then i feel sorry for them. and i enjoy batman and robin. the criticisms of BVS are so overblown, but not surprising.
Of course BvS is better than Batman and Robin. I enjoy Batman Forever more than BvS, but that might be more of a nostalgia thing.
Batman and Robin was fun, lighthearted, and goofy. It's pure camp, but it knows it's pure camp. Love that movie.
batman v Superman was straight up boring. Not only was it boring, but it was like 7 hours long before it even got to that mess of a final Battle. That movie is pure trash.
BVS was utter shit. It was the worst possible versions of every character. I would have like to have seen Batman 2 than Batman Returns due it being a mystery flick than whatever Returns was.
Ben Affleck is out as director of The Batman but will still star in it and produce it and stuff. I don't think this is in itself an awful thing but it's probably indicative of how they'll rush it out and make it suck
I don't think it's a big deal he had an interview that said he wasn't used the new tech that goes into making a blockbuster. He still sounds dedicated to the project, and I hope he can find someone can do Batman justice. Kind of surprised they didn't hold off announcement until they had a replacement. Still all hands on deck over at DC it seems. This train ain't stopping. The brakes are broken.
The train is broken. These movies stink. I liked Man of Steel enough, but aside from that and the scene in BvS where Batman beats the shit out of some thugs in a warehouse... these movies aren't good.
Yep. It's so absurd to plan out a cinematic universe of 7+ films when you can't even make the first few any good. Forget the universe, make a single good FILM and go from there. I don't know if Marvel had their whole universe planned out when they made Iron Man 1 but they actually made Iron Man good so people wanted more. What DC is doing currently is what I hate about comic book movies... just churning out garbage because they will sell on name recognition alone.
DC is all over the place right now. They are having a Black Adam movie before the Shazam! movie? People are going to be very confused why he is the villain after being the hero of his own movie.
I remember reading that the box office reaction to Iron Man was surprising, even to Marvel. I'm trying to find the article but not having any luck. I think the gist was that Iron Man wasn't as well known a hero like Hulk so Marvel was surprised when the film did so well. Long story short, the success of Iron Man helped Marvel realize there was money to be made if they took their time and made good movies as opposed to what DC is trying to do.
DC is all over the place right now. They are having a Black Adam movie before the Shazam! movie? People are going to be very confused why he is the villain after being the hero of his own movie.
unless the movie is becoming of the villain, like a loooong slow burn hell turn. But it doesn't matter because dc/wb are going to make a complete fucking shambles of it anyway
Jesus, didn't think we'd see Affleck quit at all, much less this soon. It does feel like he was overstretched. He's been heavily involved in the post-production on Justice League. He's writing this Batman movie, going to star in it. Directing it too was a lot to ask. But this definitely isn't a good sign.
Live By Night bombing probably hit him hard too. That was a passion project, he'd been trying to get it made for years.
Hulk, no. Incredible Hulk, yes. Daredevil [movie], no. Punisher, no. Punisher: War Zone was supposed to initially, but no, not since Daredevil [series] and the like on Netflix took off.
Last edited by WizoOzz; January 31st, 2017 at 1:46 PM.
DC is all over the place right now. They are having a Black Adam movie before the Shazam! movie? People are going to be very confused why he is the villain after being the hero of his own movie.
I don't think it would be that difficult to do. That's been the problem with movie studios and comic book properties, the movie studios discount the intelligence level of people paying to see the films. If it's done well, it won't be that confusing. Black Adam really isn't a villain per se anyway. He's like Venom to Shazam's (since I guess he's not Captain Marvel anymore) Spidey.
DC missed the boat on the whole comic movie thing, and then tried to grim/dark their franchises when they had to shit or get off the pot. Marvel makes fun movies, DC tries to squeeze the characters somewhat into a realistic fabric, which is commendable but they fail miserably post-Dark Knight trilogy. They focused too much on soft rebooting the continuity comic-wise to get enough sales to go further into movies aside from Batman and Superman. While safe on the business end, it took them too long while Marvel was getting bought by Disney.
Quite sad, as a DC reader. They completely abandoned or tried to reboot characters I loved, left me out to the cold, and into the Marvel cinematic universe's warm embrace.
Last edited by WizoOzz; January 31st, 2017 at 1:58 PM.
And the Netflix series exist in the same continuity as the movies, there have been a number of references to The Avengers in them. I don't know that we'll see crossover, I like The Defenders being in their own much grittier place.
It really doesn't help DC sell Black Adam as a villain when they're having Dwayne Johnson, of a people, play the character. One of the most likeable men in the world.
The best way I see them doing it is having Adam be a hero at first and then corrupted somehow.
Sometime between the "Power of Shazam" and "JSA" series back in the early 00's, they started making Adam more of a fallen hero or tweener type of character, whereas he was a straight-up villain at least up to the "Shazam: A New Beginning" miniseries. I stopped reading monthlies when the New 52 started, so I have no idea how he's been handled the last 5 or 6 years.
Matt Reeves (Cloverfield, Let Me In, Dawn of the Planet of the Apes, War for the Planet of the Apes) and Matt Ross (Captain Fantastic) are on Warner Bros' short list for directing The Batman. Reeves sounds like a great choice, honestly.
There has been rumors that Ben may drop out all together. That would seriously fuck everything up. I am sure Warner would just buy him an island at that point to keep him on though.
I wonder also if this means that Justice League is going to be a turd and he's getting ready to cut his losses. DC is banking on Affleck being the savior of the show that's their universe. If he's getting cold feet about this, that doesn't bode well at all.
I'm sure they'll do whatever it takes to stop that from happening. Let him pick the director. He's the bell cow of this DC Extended Universe that they've invested so much in.
Ben is the RDJ of the DC Universe as far as I'm concerned, even though Cavil started this new series. DC needs to treat him like a rockstar and keep him attached to the DC Uni.
Ben is the RDJ of the DC Universe as far as I'm concerned, even though Cavil started this new series. DC needs to treat him like a rockstar and keep him attached to the DC Uni.
I agree. He's by far the biggest name of the ensemble and it'd be a damn shame.
I went to see it last weekend and it's definitely worth checking out. I was laughing so much I reckon I missed a load of jokes, will just have to go see it again.
It sounds like they've been having problems with the script for The Batman. They brought in Chris Terrio, who wrote Argo, BvS, and Justice League, to do a re-write of the Affleck/Jeff Johns script.
I can understand why they're having trouble coming up with a script. Most of the classic Batman stories have already been adapted in film to some extent and also tend to take place early in his career. A lot of the obvious stories to tell are his first encounters with particular villains, but that's hard to do when he's been Batman for 20 years in this continuity. Robin's death is one of the more natural and interesting stories, but that's apparently already happened in this continuity.
The way I see things is that you're dealing with a veteran Batman, things in Gotham should be going okay. Gordon has cleaned up the police force, most of the villains should be in Arkham. You need to introduce a character who shakes up the status quo. That's probably someone a bit more fantastic than his typical adversaries, maybe a Clayface or a Man-Bat. It goes along with the idea that Superman has changed things on earth and there are newer, bigger threats to deal with.
Riddler is a villain I'd like to see in another Batman movie. Haven't had him in a movie since Batman Forever. It's easy to go in a different and more serious direction with the character than they had in that movie. And he's a big name that people know. Mr. Freeze also deserves a more serious adaptation of his character.
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Originally Posted by The Law
