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Thread: UFC 206 Holloway v. Pettis

  1. #1
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    UFC 206 Holloway v. Pettis

    I've been slacking so here we go....


    UFC 206
    LIVE! Saturday December 10th, 2016
    Air Canda Centre in Toronto, ON, Canada


    Main Card:
    Main Event
    INTERIM UFC FEATHERWEIGHT CHAMPIONSHIP
    Max Holloway v. Anthony Pettis*Missed weight, therefore only Holloway is eligible for championship*

    Co-Main
    Donald Cerrone v. Matt Brown (WW)

    Cub Swanson v. Doo Ho Choi (FW)
    Tim Kennedy v. Kelvin Gastelum (MW)
    Jordan Mein v. Emil Week (WW)

    Prelims on FS1:
    Nikita Crylov v. Misha Cirkunov (LHW)
    Olivier Aubin-Mercier v. Drew Dober (LW)
    Valerie Letourneau v. Viviane Pereira (Catchweight 117.5lbs)
    Mitch Gagnon v. Matthew Lopez (BW)

    Prelims on Fight Pass:
    John Makdessi v. Lando Vannata (LW)
    Jason Saggo v. Rustam Khabilov (Catchweight 158lbs.)
    Zach Makovsky v. Dustin Ortiz (FLW)

    Kind of a fucked up card in the sense that 3 people missed weight. Pettis, Khabilov, and Letourneau all 3 missed weight and it's especially damaging to Pettis because he's now unable to win the interim title, just Max.

    With that said, there are quite a few fights on this card that scream incredible.

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    usa
    This won't top 100 thousand buys. Ill watch for sure but this is not appealing to a casual fan. It would be if they watched I'm sure but nothing about this card is worth 60-70 dollars.

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    Once upon a time... kdestiny's Avatar
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    This show seems destined to fail

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    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    I had to do a little research on when the last time the UFC didn't crack 100k buys.

    UFC 174 (June 2014) This was Mighty Mouse v. Ali Bagautinov 115k buys.

    UFC 191 (September 2015) had 115k which was Mighty Mouse v. Dodson 2 but also had Arlovski v. Mir as the co-main (10 years too late but oh well, fight kinda sucked anyway).

    In the last 3 years those are the lowest drawing cards and I don't see UFC 206 reaching that low of a buyrate. The ONLY reason I could see it happening it that the UFC has the return of Ronda in 3 weeks so people might be putting their money back for that card. So I don't think it'll top 200k buys based on that but you never know man.

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    Being wedged between that massive Conor card and Rousey's return will not help. Seriously, this should have been a free numbered event. Why don't they do those anymore? Not every ppv card is a grand slam.

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    too big to fail Tainted Eclipse's Avatar
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    ussr
    not a commercial blockbuster but this card rules

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    Legend Mik's Avatar
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    That was an excellent card.

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    GO ON LAD Fanny Batter's Avatar
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    Yeah that Choi vs. Swanson fight was incredible. Heart, chins, and no lack of striking skills between them. Amazing fight. Swanson has reestablished himself as a contender while Choi makes a huge name for himself while biting a loss and therefore being due a step down. No need to rush him from here, give him Siver in a FS1 co-main or even main event.

    Cerrone vs. Brown would have been FOTN on most cards, knockdown dragout, changes in momentum, good sub attempts and a massive KO. Judging by Gastelum's performance and this though, Cowboy dodged a bullet there because Kelvin looks legit on the feet right now.

    Holloway is a better fighter than Pettis and showed it. Impressed how he got his man out of there. Looking forward to the Aldo fight, very interesting because neither have huge power so it's possibly the best striking match-up to be made from a tactical perspective. And maybe Aldo opens up more without a takedown threat? Big fight. If Jose turns up.

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    usa
    That card was the balls. All the fights that were expected to deliver did. Emil Meek is one of my new favorites.

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    usa
    Jose Waldo. Incredible.

  11. #11
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Never did I think I'd see Matt Brown quit but I heard Cowboy broke his jaw so I get that for sure but Brown is such a beast. That was a good fight.

    I can't believe Holloway stopped Pettis. I saw the fight going the full 5 but I'm glad Holloway won simply because I didn't want some weird shit to happen with this whole interim thing and have it be for nothing.

    Kelvin stopping Tim Kennedy. Good win, but here we go with Kelvin wanting to go back to 170 and I just think it's a mistake. He wants the size advantage I get it but he's not going to make 170 each time successfully he just doesn't have the track record to prove anyone wrong.

    Cub v. Doo, saw highlights, looked like a fun fight. This was definitely a card where ON PAPER it didn't look like anything mega special but it delivered.

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    Could not disagree more about Kelvin. He doesn't want "the size advantage" at 170 (his performances at 185 prove he isn't concerned with that), he wants to fight there because he's a welterweight. He isn't bigger than Cerrone for one example.

    The only, and I stress only problem is lack of discipline in his diet. I guarantee he doesn't turn down greasy chorizo or refried beans burritos or quesadillas or any of that delicious fattening Mexican food. I really want to believe him when he says he's changing his lifestyle. He is an amazing talent.

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    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hammer View Post
    Could not disagree more about Kelvin. He doesn't want "the size advantage" at 170 (his performances at 185 prove he isn't concerned with that), he wants to fight there because he's a welterweight. He isn't bigger than Cerrone for one example.

    The only, and I stress only problem is lack of discipline in his diet. I guarantee he doesn't turn down greasy chorizo or refried beans burritos or quesadillas or any of that delicious fattening Mexican food. I really want to believe him when he says he's changing his lifestyle. He is an amazing talent.
    He's a good fighter but he's just as impressive at 185 as he is 170 so I don't see why he'd want to be struggling to make weight at 170 if it wasn't to have the size advantage. We don't really know what weight class he's the best at it. Kind of like Rumble Johnson. He was devastating at every weight class.

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    He wouldn't struggle to make 170 if he ate like a professional athlete.

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    I would take no joy out of seeing him get KTFO by some hulking middleweight like Romero or Weidman and that tier of opponent would probably be his next. He needs to suck it up and prove Dana and everybody who thinks it's difficult to make small adjustments in your diet wrong. He's enough of a prodigy to deserve that opportunity, especially after what he did to Kennedy.

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    Matt Brown didn't quit either, he got knocked unconscious.

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    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hammer View Post
    He wouldn't struggle to make 170 if he ate like a professional athlete.
    We've just seen countless times guys blowing up to 200lbs. and then cutting 30-40lbs. thinking they'd have this awesome size and strength advantage.

    You know what bothers me about Kelvin and this is so lame of me but the reason I'm not a big fan is because he acted like a 12 year old with a crush on Ultimate Fighter when they brought in Ronda Rousey. He was straight up star struck, smitten if you will lol. Be a mark for Chuck Liddell, Randy Couture, don't be one for Ronda lol.

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    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hammer View Post
    Matt Brown didn't quit either, he got knocked unconscious.
    I saw some jacked up highlight then. The highlight I saw that was supposedly the end was Brown took a kick to the jaw then looked to be calling time out. Then right after that it cut to Cerrone celebrating so I just assumed that was the end of the fight. Woops.

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    No, he was asleep. It was a beautiful walk-off headkick KO.

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    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Was it better than my boy Lando Vannata earlier in the night?? They're already calling that one the KO of the Year.

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    I need to look into that. I didn't catch the prelims. Emil Meek is incredible by the way. Ill probably be annoying you about him soon.

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    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hammer View Post
    I need to look into that. I didn't catch the prelims. Emil Meek is incredible by the way. Ill probably be annoying you about him soon.
    The kick is Barboza-beautiful.

    Yeah Meek is the dude who slayed Paul Harris in like a minute. Meek LOOKS like he's from fucking Norway that's for sure, and the fact his nickname is Valhalla, that's fitting. Especially when I was watching Thor 1 and 2 last night on Spike and it made me think of him.

  23. #23
    BREAK IT DOWN
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    My takeaways;

    -Didn't watch the pre-lims. Saw the Vannata KO and thought it was cool. The guy has some star potential.

    -I was thoroughly entertained and invested in the Cub/Doo Ho Choi fight. I wanted Doo Ho to win, but hats off to both of them. Doo Ho took some hard shots.

    -Cowboy didn't look as crisp at WW as he had in his last few bouts, having gotten caught quite a few times by a Matt Brown who had nothing to lose. I don't think Matt Brown has much left in the tank anymore but he literally had nothing to lose and fought balls out. Cowboy should get a top 3 or title shot. Mostly because of how popular he is and he has a nice streak. Cowboy vs. Maia would be awesome, but I think Maia deserves a title shot more than anyone.

    -Kelvin Gastelum beat the shit out of Kennedy. Kennedy kept pushing through and had the size advantage, but he just couldn't do anything with his grappling. If Kelvin can get his weight under control, he will be a dangerous fighter at WW or MW. He is legit. He looked smaller and bloated, but it didn't matter.

    -I don't know what Pettis has left. I was honestly a bit bored/tired when this fight came on despite the card having awesome fights. I don't remember much, people said Pettis kept it close in the first round, but I feel like Holloway just picked him apart all match. Pettis says he is going back to LW, but there isn't much left there for him either. Quite a drop-off.

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    Yeah, Pettis has fallen off. This is the guy that marked Cerrone early in the first round. I wonder how much his broken hand affected him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nash Diesel View Post
    The kick is Barboza-beautiful.

    Yeah Meek is the dude who slayed Paul Harris in like a minute. Meek LOOKS like he's from fucking Norway that's for sure, and the fact his nickname is Valhalla, that's fitting. Especially when I was watching Thor 1 and 2 last night on Spike and it made me think of him.
    Yeah, he has a great look and is one hell of a fighter.

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    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Let's hold off on calling it a day for Pettis. He's 2-4 in his last 6. 3 of those 4 all went on to win a title either from him or the very next fight. RDA beat him for the belt, Alvarez beat him (some say Pettis won that fight) and then won the belt in his next fight, Holloway was for the interim FW title. Barboza is no slouch either as he was ranked in the top 5 when they fought....It'd be one thing if he was losing to guys that were ranked in the high teens but he is literally being put up against the elite of the elite in those divisions. Not to mention, this was the very first time EVER that he was stopped in MMA. That says a lot about Holloway's skill level.

    And that's something I really hate hearing when it comes to a top guy like Pettis. He's a top guy, he's top 10 in either division for sure and there's a reason. And what I hate is that by saying "he's fallen off" "he's not that good anymore" that kind of takes away from the people who beat him. He's fallen off, so what does that say about Holloway's victory? That he got lucky? I mean Pettis is only 29, and who knows, he might have something to offer at 155 again. Like I said, his only losses in that division were against high level competitors. Even Guida at the time was top 5 when they met years ago.

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    ain't got wings Brock Kasady's Avatar
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    Pettis is in need of some adjustments. He has fallen off so much since dropping the title to RDA. Seems like a mental thing. I never could figure out when he might have broke his hand. 10 fight winning streak for Holloway is a huge accomplishment. Looking forward to seeing him and Aldo fight.

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    GO ON LAD Fanny Batter's Avatar
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    Pettis could do with a step down in competition. RDA really took his confidence, he seems hesitant to get on the front foot since then in fear of the takedown. He's not really a counter striker so he's getting beaten to the punch a lot. Stick him in there with the Pearson's, Sanchez's and Miller's to see if he can return to form.

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    If you "hate" hearing that Pettis has fallen off honestly you should get past it. He looked like a killer during his title run. He was wrecking the elite of the elite. Got the Wheaties box treatment. Is now missing weight and losing over half of his fights. Nobody said he would lose to guys in the high teens but he HAS fallen off when you look at where he is now vs where he was then.

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    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fanny Batter View Post
    Pettis could do with a step down in competition. RDA really took his confidence, he seems hesitant to get on the front foot since then in fear of the takedown. He's not really a counter striker so he's getting beaten to the punch a lot. Stick him in there with the Pearson's, Sanchez's and Miller's to see if he can return to form.
    I agree. I mean shit I even thought his first fight at FW was risky as hell. That was a top 5 dude and he choked him out and Charles is imo one of the best grapplers in the division. One has to wonder if his time off over the last couple years has affected him as well. Cage rust is real. So definitely give him a lower tier fighter, not a scrub but yeah definitely guys who will give Pettis that confidence as well as the fans.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hammer View Post
    If you "hate" hearing that Pettis has fallen off honestly you should get past it. He looked like a killer during his title run. He was wrecking the elite of the elite. Got the Wheaties box treatment. Is now missing weight and losing over half of his fights. Nobody said he would lose to guys in the high teens but he HAS fallen off when you look at where he is now vs where he was then.
    I don't hate it in the sense that I'm over here pounding my fist on the keyboard lol. I just don't like when people talk down someone that is actually still a really really good fighter because it takes away from the people who beat him. I agree, he was killing people with virtual ease it seemed but really the only fights he's looked like he's "fallen off" were the Barboza and RDA fights simply because the respect wasn't fully there for those 2 fighters until AFTER they beat Pettis. The fact Pettis missed weight is crazy, I was surprised he even went down to 145 to begin with and you could tell in that first fight he was struggling a little. Sure 155 is where he took 3 losses in a row but again, 2 of those 3 losses were to RDA who beat him for the belt and Alvarez who went on to beat RDA for the belt in the next fight.

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    He would have murdered those guys during his Benson 2 form. His skills are deteriorating. Hes not the same fighter that he was. This happens to all fighters so I don't know why you have a problem with it being pointed out.

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    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hammer View Post
    He would have murdered those guys during his Benson 2 form. His skills are deteriorating. Hes not the same fighter that he was. This happens to all fighters so I don't know why you have a problem with it being pointed out.
    Maybe, maybe not. I just don't see how a guy who has only lost to former/current champions and/or top 5 talent has somehow fallen off....You can't write off a 29 year old fighter that's fighting top tier competition and doesn't win all the time. Robbie Lawler will forever be my go to of a guy who was written off in his late 20's and then had a career rebirth. He's not the only one either, guys like Werdum for example seemed to have gotten better as they matured.

    I think ultimately with Pettis is the layoffs have affected him. I don't want to say he's fallen off because that takes away from Holloway's victory. Holloway beat a top level fighter because Holloway is a top level fighter. We're not talking about a win over Diego Sanchez, THAT is a fighter who has fallen off.

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    I don't think you know what "fallen off" means. Pettis being in objectively poor career form doesn't take anything away from Holloway.

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    And Diego Sanchez has NOT fallen off. Past his prime yes but he is of the same value to the UFC as he always has been.

    Pettis is a former defending world champ who now (according to you and just about everyone) needs a step down in competition.
    Last edited by Mark Hammer; December 12th, 2016 at 5:17 PM.

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    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    When I hear someone say "fallen off" I take it as them saying they're not as good as they once were. But that's subjective. If we're talking about a guy who can't get the job done against considerably less talented competition, then sure. But Pettis could mop the floor with anyone outside the top 5 at FW or LW, it's the guys that are right there with him in the rankings or are champions that he has struggled against and there's no shame in that. So yeah, when I hear you say "Pettis has fallen off" I take that as you saying he's not as good as he was, which judging by your explanations and responses that's exactly what you are saying. You said Benson 2 form he would have killed guys like RDA, Alvarez, Holloway, and Barboza. I'm saying I don't necessarily agree with that because MMA is a weird animal, what looks good on paper doesn't always translate into reality.

    I don't think Diego is the same draw that he used to be 7-8 years ago nor do I think he's as good as he used to be so whatever value he had in the past is in no way (IMO) the same as what he offers today.

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    GP OG Percussion's Avatar
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    He was the defending champion of the world.

    He's now lost 4 of his last 5.

    He's fallen off.

    Now he's lost to world class fighters and so that doesn't mean fallen off to him and where he'd been is the end of his career. It also doesn't mean he can't climb back up.
    It's not a permanent description.
    But for now he's not on the perch of status or performance he had been. That can only be read as one thing. Fallen off.

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    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by percussion13 View Post
    He was the defending champion of the world.

    He's now lost 4 of his last 5.

    He's fallen off.

    Now he's lost to world class fighters and so that doesn't mean fallen off to him and where he'd been is the end of his career. It also doesn't mean he can't climb back up.
    It's not a permanent description.
    But for now he's not on the perch of status or performance he had been. That can only be read as one thing. Fallen off.
    There are some in here who think he's done. I'm not one of them. Which is why I'm not going to say the guy has fallen off.

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    GP OG Percussion's Avatar
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    maldives
    Quote Originally Posted by Nash Diesel View Post
    There are some in here who think he's done. I'm not one of them. Which is why I'm not going to say the guy has fallen off.
    I don't think he's necessarily done. He might be, but I'm not ready to declare that just yet. And Lawler is the perfect example.

    But from the simple point of view of the height he sat at two years ago to now, that's off and in a pretty easily discernible direction.

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    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    I just don't see why it can't simply be Damn what a great win for Holloway, first guy ever to stop Anthony Pettis. Instead it's, Man Pettis has fallen off.....No real love for Holloway just some quick to discredit the win essentially by saying cool Holloway won but Pettis isn't the same as he was 3 years ago.

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    maldives
    No one is saying it's not a great win for Holloway.

    It was a great win for Holloway.

    He helped push Pettis off.

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    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Jose Aldo is saying that his fight with Holloway is going down in Feb 2017 at UFC 208. Sweet!

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    Great news if true. Such a good fight on paper.

    Hope he pushes Aldo off next.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nash Diesel View Post
    There are some in here who think he's done. I'm not one of them. Which is why I'm not going to say the guy has fallen off.
    The guy you responded to just got done explaining how falling off doesn't mean you're "done". Your definition is different than everybody else's in the world.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nash Diesel View Post
    I just don't see why it can't simply be Damn what a great win for Holloway, first guy ever to stop Anthony Pettis. Instead it's, Man Pettis has fallen off.....No real love for Holloway just some quick to discredit the win essentially by saying cool Holloway won but Pettis isn't the same as he was 3 years ago.
    Was probably the best win of his career. Not only did he beat a world champion but he was the first man to ever stop him. Holloway's stock is through the roof right now and I would love for him to beat Aldo and be the champ.

    But Anthony Pettis has fallen off.

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    Wonder if I want to go to UFC 208 in Brooklyn...

    If they stack it up a bit I am going. Aldo vs. Holloway isn't enough to tickle my balls

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    I think Aldo v. Holloway is a great fight but I definitely see a couple more big fights added. They had a stellar introduction to NY with UFC 205 but then had that free show this past weekend with a bunch of people nobody has ever heard of which was a little weird. You go from a mega card to one of the smallest cards in terms of name value and rankings they've done in awhile....So I imagine Brooklyn is going to get the hook up. Probably see Aldo v. Holloway and Rumble v. Cormier unless Cormier can't compete. What sucks is this was one of the cards the UFC offered Cyborg a fight for the new 145 title they're trying to get up and rolling but she said nope for whatever reason.

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    I hope aldo batters Holloway so that everyone stops claiming one of the pound for pound greats in the history of the sport is overrated just because he got beaten against the most popular fighter in the history of the sport. If they fought again I don't doubt that McGregor would win again, but I don't believe for a second that it would be in that same manner and it doesn't take away from the unprescedented 10 years of dominance that aldo had over that division.

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    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    I hope aldo batters Holloway so that everyone stops claiming one of the pound for pound greats in the history of the sport is overrated just because he got beaten against the most popular fighter in the history of the sport. If they fought again I don't doubt that McGregor would win again, but I don't believe for a second that it would be in that same manner and it doesn't take away from the unprescedented 10 years of dominance that aldo had over that division.
    I am really hoping they fight again and I wouldn't be shocked if Aldo keeps winning and stays healthy I have no doubt that they will fight again and it'll be the best fight in MMA history.

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    Wait wait wait who ever said Aldo was over-rated?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nash Diesel View Post
    I am really hoping they fight again and I wouldn't be shocked if Aldo keeps winning and stays healthy I have no doubt that they will fight again and it'll be the best fight in MMA history.
    Conor would make Jose his bobblehead again. Except this beating will last longer than 13 seconds. Hopefully, you never know what kind of mood McGregor will be in. If he's not feeling uo to it he might finish it early again so he can go home and get some rest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hammer View Post
    Conor would make Jose his bobblehead again. Except this beating will last longer than 13 seconds. Hopefully, you never know what kind of mood McGregor will be in. If he's not feeling uo to it he might finish it early again so he can go home and get some rest.
    LMAO.

    Dude, it is fans like you who keep me smiling. How did that work out for McGregor against Nate Diaz? Didn't seem like his mystical powers work as often as his clones would like to think.

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