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Thread: Westworld

  1. #201
    GP OG Percussion's Avatar
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    maldives
    Cross-park dopplebots
    Ronins fighting ninjas
    Ninjas fighting western outlaws
    Mesh-network controlling conscious robot witch madames

    Alright.

    And I love Dolores having enough of Teddy's never ending feels. Time for new heartless vigilante Teddy. So time for new Teddy.

  2. #202
    Cirque du Soleil Chris's Avatar
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    I wasn't feeling this episode as much, despite the major plot developments. I thought the stuff in Shogun World was a little bit derivative and some of the scenes went on a bit. Maybe having virtually an entire episode devoted to the park couldn't live up to my expectations. But I'm enjoying Maeve's evolution and the implications are really interesting - Dolores is still reliant on a tech to make hosts do what she wants (will poor Teddy ever catch a break?) while Maeve now just has to think it. They'd seemingly be really mismatched if they met up now and it'll be fascinating to see where they both are by the end of the season.

    I loved the fact that Lee was lazy in just giving the Shogun hosts the same narratives. He's become one of my favourite characters - he gives some light relief to the horror and is handy for delivering important exposition while shitting himself.

  3. #203
    GP OG Percussion's Avatar
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    I thought the derivativeness of SW to WE, and Lee's laziness in writing them that way, spoke interestingly to the parallel we saw last season between the park, the hosts, Delos, etc to modern tv shows, actors, producers and their reality tv counterparts. He fell on tried and true stories for lack of originality and the familiarity of a branded hit. I could see how it could've felt flat to anyone watching, but given the analogies they've already explored I thought it made sense.

  4. #204
    Donde esta la biblioteca Pablo Diablo's Avatar
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    I did not catch that it was C.R.E.A.M until right at the end of the cover of it.
    Last edited by Pablo Diablo; May 22nd, 2018 at 7:55 AM.

  5. #205
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  6. #206
    GP OG Percussion's Avatar
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    Terrific side by side of Westworld/Shogun World 'Paint it Black' robberies..


  7. #207
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  8. #208
    OBJECTION Psycho666Soldier's Avatar
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    When I realized they were doing a cover of C.R.E.A.M., i almost leapt out of my seat. I rewound and watched the whole scene again to make sure I was right.

    Episode 5 was a surprising change of pace as it felt like I was watching a martial arts flick. It might not have been all, "OOOH, BIG REVELATION" like people expect from the show, but I thought it was an awesome ride regardless. Plus, I felt the developing emotions between Dolores and Teddy were pretty captivating.

    Episode 6 was notably slower than the last two. A lot of tension and plot-building. But man, that ending! I'm thinking the next episode is gonna be lit as fuck and will be very similar to how heightened everything felt once you found out Bernard was a host.

    I'm expecting a pretty hot run into the finale.

  9. #209
    GP OG Percussion's Avatar
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    This one was a bit slower, especially after the huge info dumps and the big Shogun exploration the last couple weeks, but ultimately there was a lot of payoff to like this episode. And not a culmination type payoff, but lots of destination points on characters' motivations at least touched upon instead of just hanging in perpetual wonder. Maeve and her daughter, Dolores and her weapon, William and his daughter, Charlotte and mainland Delos, and the biggest of course ... Bernard and his old friend.

    Agree with Psycho666, they've set themselves up for a scorching homestretch, and not unlike the way season one was paced out either. Be interesting to see how many of the main characters cross paths with the likelihood they're converging on top of one another at some point soon.

    William wants to burn Westworld to the ground.
    Dolores wants vengeance on her human makers/slavers.
    Still think Ford ultimately wants to free his creations.
    Bernard's got a head like a bag of cats and doesn't really know what he wants.
    And Maeve still likely wants to help her 'daughter', somehow.

    Crazy to think this is all just leading to how we found Bernard at the beginning of episode 1 this season.

    Oh ya, and the fuck is up with the Bernard/Dolores convo? Is this the creation of Bernard being tested sometime in the past? Is it Dolores having captured Bernard sometime in the future? Argh.
    Last edited by Percussion; June 3rd, 2018 at 11:49 PM.

  10. #210
    Cirque du Soleil Chris's Avatar
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    This week's episode was great. Some lovely character moments like MIB's fireside chat with his daughter and Maeve showing genuine gratitude to Lee. She maybe should have predicted running into her "replacement" during the reunion with her daughter, but I thought her acting was brilliant.

    When Teddy handed the tech his gun, I thought for a moment he was starting to rebel against Dolores. He's clearly not liking what's been done to him and it's great to see Marsden getting to play a different take on his character. Very interesting to see if his transformation backfires on Dolores. They've made a clear dichotomy between her and Maeve. One bends people to her will and the other ultimately wants people to make their own choices and has forged relationships of a sort with the guests.

    It was book-ended by two major reveals - the first adding even more intrigue to when all these stories are taking place relative to each other and a clear parallel to the William/Delos scenes. I see from some reviews that the aspect ratio gives a clue as to where this scene is taking place. Then you have Dr Ford himself. I'm looking forward to seeing what this means in terms of whether Maeve and Dolores are truly "free" or simply having their strings pulled. And given how the opening scene ends, I'm still wondering whether we're going to get a return for Arnold in a host body rather than Ford.

    The preview for next week looks insane.

  11. #211
    GP OG Percussion's Avatar
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    Gonna take a minute to unpack this one. Till then just ... man, that was a lot of episode.

  12. #212
    GP OG Percussion's Avatar
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    maldives
    So ya, the shit is flying off the fan now ain't it?

    - That Maeve/William showdown was fierce. Much more tangible in it's delivery than a lot of the violence on the show thus far. I was actually jaw dropping in the exchanges when each were hit.

    - Where did Ghost Nation take Maeve's daughter?

    - Awesome seeing Charlotte and co. discover that Bernard is a host, and a long time coming now, which made it better imo. And that he's a hidden closet full of hosts to boot.

    - The convo between Ford and Bernarnold was a gem. Lots of exposition and answers to Delos' full intentions toward using Westworld as an immortality R&D facility. The humans want to be hosts and the hosts want to be humans. Love that this has become the core nature of the show in it's muddled quest to define consciousness.

    - Interesting that Ford has implanted a new bicameral mind of his own inside Bernarnold and this may to some degree defeat, at least temporarily, the cognitive plateau problem. Also good getting an answer to the recent Bernarnold/Dolores convos. How long had they been running this inverted turing test?

    - Feel a little sturdier now about thinking Ford's endgame is to free the hosts entirely from the park out to the mainland somehow after his talk with Bernard.

    - Angela taking one for the team was boss. 'welcome to Westworld'. How dumb was that security dude, good grief.

    - The idea of destroying the backups in a twist to unchain the hosts from servitude was pretty tremendous. And it came about in a super tense showdown between Dolores and Charlotte. Lots of SHOWDOWNS this week.

    - And here we are with 3 left while we should be coming up on the convergence of the two main timelines into The Flood while everyone is looking to The Valley Beyond. Nutters.
    Last edited by Percussion; June 4th, 2018 at 4:36 PM.

  13. #213
    Cirque du Soleil Chris's Avatar
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    This week was incredible. For all the action, it was the face-to-face meetings which really resonated. Jeffrey Wright was crackling with energy as he confronted Ford about the true purpose of the park. Tessa Thompson put in a really strong performance, veering from arrogant defiance to pure terror as Dolores threatened to cut her open. And Thandie Newton just continues to find new depths to her character. I loved seeing MIB completely at her mercy and really thought he was done for.

    While I enjoyed the first season, I was worried this show would end up being another Lost where ultimately it raises more questions than answers. But this season has given us revelations at a steady pace and the timelines are now getting closer together. I’ve found it really satisfying that they’ve given us answers to things and used these periodic showdowns to release tension and propel the characters and theme forward. It makes me trust in the writers that there is an endgame to the bigger mysteries.

  14. #214
    World Champion Bandit's Avatar
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  15. #215
    GP OG Percussion's Avatar
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    Not a ton in the way of the larger narrative moving forward this week, just one poignant and pretty epic story.

    While Dolores, Maeve, Bernard, and Teddy have had their consciousnesses awakened in more sudden and manufactured ways - reveries, the bicameral mind, deeply embedded backstories - we now see how, when left all on it's own and with memories piling up, hosts can be awakened in a much more organic manner. If the former were all kind of test tube sentience engineered by and large by Ford/Arnold, Akechete is more like a primordial soup of sentience that was left to brew on the fringes of the park unattended and in it's own natural way. Really strong bit of lateral world building here.

    Piecing together the key moments in Akechete's awakening with key moments to the Westworld story was pretty great too - Arnold's death/the host massacre, The Maze's occurrences, Logan stranded naked in the sun, glimpses of The Valley Beyond. Call backs and exposition of things the audience is familiar with intertwined with the one rogue host's journey, some really good writing.

    Then the Ford/Akechete meeting. It's terrific how Hopkins maintains the duality of aloofness as the more advanced creator being and the concern of the sympathetic father figure being. He manages to display these views almost simultaneously at times. Another fun narrative nugget wrapped up in Akechete's story was hearing Ford mention his impending death that he was already fully intent on.

    And finally the reveal that Maeve has been listening the whole time to Akechete share his story with her in particular through the mesh network. Her role as the adopted mother figure to different hosts' suffering - Hector, Akane, Akechete - while searching to fulfill her drive to be the mother to her daughter has been a gripping and excellent character arc. Nice to also see Lee fully taken in to his more human side by her as well. Should be interesting to see what happens once she's freed somehow and manages to align fully with the Ghost Nation.

    A beautifully shot, with it's wide panoramas and vistas, killer journey of one character's sidestory that ties in wonderfully in spots with the larger narrative. Great episode all around.

  16. #216
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    Best episode of the season by quite a lot for me. The larger narrative still appears to be a bit of a jumbled mess. This was actually one of those unexplained situations that they tied up together really beautifully and gives me hope for the rest of the series.

  17. #217
    Cirque du Soleil Chris's Avatar
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    Excellent episode. All the comments, including my own, about whether we would get any kind of characterisation for the Ghost Nation this season look silly now after this tour-de-force. The implications of sentience emerging on its own through sheer isolation and noticing the changes made when the hosts die is fascinating.

    There are lovely parallels with Maeve, in that both she and Ake became fixated on something and it drove them to a higher level of consciousness. And much like how she is wanting other hosts to find their path, Ake was moved by the fact that so many others have lost loved ones who are being stored in the lab,

    Watching Kohana remember their love was so powerful and seeing Ake lose her again was devastating. Delos is only just discovering how unique Maeve is - I’m dying to see them wrap their heads around this new twist in the capabilities of the hosts. I’m curious whether Ford was influenced by Ake in terms of the door and his subsequent game with MIB.

  18. #218
    Donde esta la biblioteca Pablo Diablo's Avatar
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    A very well done single focused episode.

  19. #219
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    Some Father's Day episode, eh?

  20. #220
    Donde esta la biblioteca Pablo Diablo's Avatar
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    Hah, didn't even click on that.

  21. #221
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    This show sucks. I will keep watching because it is well produced and mostly well acted and my wife likes it still. It's total nonsense. M. Night Shyamalan level garbage.

  22. #222
    Once more unto the breach Pipkin's Avatar
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    I was really disappointed with season 2. I want to love this show, but it does feel like they substitute twists and turns for actual storytelling. I'll probably still watch season 3 though.

  23. #223
    Give me the World Belt, dammit Zarius's Avatar
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    ROFL, 90 minutes of pissing twists and no story.

  24. #224
    GP OG Percussion's Avatar
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    I enjoyed it, but I can understand anyone throwing their hands up at the convoluted insanity of it all.

    That said I don't get the idea that there wasn't any story.

    Maeve doing everything she could to get her daughter to Virtual Eden, and those helping her. Lee most of all there.
    More so, all of the hosts that did make it there and fulfilling the at-large season arc of 'the door'.
    Dolores escaping Westworld entirely to fulfill her wish to get to 'their world' and continue her vengeance journey. And taking Bernard with her.

    The twists and turns to narrative ratio was heavy to be sure, but there were definitely things wrapping up from this season and things being hung looking ahead to season 3.

  25. #225
    OBJECTION Psycho666Soldier's Avatar
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    I thought it was dope, and honestly felt this season was toned down on actual twists and the Finale just kind of amped it up. There were a lot of critics complaining this season was void of twists. Can satisfy everyone.

    But I agree with Percussion. There was a lot of plot progression that was resolved or evolved in the finale and had some touching moments. And the post-credits twist felt like it was the one true twist, because it really makes you question how much of the show has been a simulation this whole time. Most of everything else wasn't all that shocking.

  26. #226
    Donde esta la biblioteca Pablo Diablo's Avatar
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    Psycho with that post-credit scene I don't think we were supposed to believe it was a simulation. I'm pretty sure that post-credit scene is far, into the future. What we've been seeing the past two seasons has been real.

    For me I was disappointed with this season. I still mostly enjoyed it but like others I felt the finale had twists just for the sake of being twists. Like Stubbs. There's no reason he needed to be a host and there was no hint of it before. That was absolute pish. It is such a well produced show and now that they are leaving the park (at least for some threads of the story) I'm hoping they can write a good story, leaving mysteries of course, but not relying on twists as much.

  27. #227
    GP OG Percussion's Avatar
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    There's a fairly good reason for head of qa to be under one's control if one is an all-powerful director of a massive techno-venture that one is trying to go rogue to manipulate under cover for one's own purposes.

    And ya, the post-credit scene was definitely in the future. I believe Joy's spoken on this as well as the letterbox giveaway for all 'virtual world' scenes that the post-credit's didn't have.

  28. #228
    OBJECTION Psycho666Soldier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pablo Diablo View Post
    Psycho with that post-credit scene I don't think we were supposed to believe it was a simulation. I'm pretty sure that post-credit scene is far, into the future. What we've been seeing the past two seasons has been real.

    For me I was disappointed with this season. I still mostly enjoyed it but like others I felt the finale had twists just for the sake of being twists. Like Stubbs. There's no reason he needed to be a host and there was no hint of it before. That was absolute pish. It is such a well produced show and now that they are leaving the park (at least for some threads of the story) I'm hoping they can write a good story, leaving mysteries of course, but not relying on twists as much.
    Was that the twist there? I thought he was being cheeky with the "core drive" comment and was actually just saying he knew she was a host, but since she wasn't "inside the park," he wouldn't fuck with her. I dunno, felt like a lot to unpack that episode so I could see me overlooking that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Percussion View Post
    There's a fairly good reason for head of qa to be under one's control if one is an all-powerful director of a massive techno-venture that one is trying to go rogue to manipulate under cover for one's own purposes.

    And ya, the post-credit scene was definitely in the future. I believe Joy's spoken on this as well as the letterbox giveaway for all 'virtual world' scenes that the post-credit's didn't have.
    I'm not saying that scene was a simulation. I'm saying the rest of the show has been a simulation to test William. Though if the Delos scene is any indication, that would mean everything he went through were things that actually happened and was just recreated for fidelity.

  29. #229
    GP OG Percussion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psycho666Soldier View Post
    Was that the twist there? I thought he was being cheeky with the "core drive" comment and was actually just saying he knew she was a host, but since she wasn't "inside the park," he wouldn't fuck with her. I dunno, felt like a lot to unpack that episode so I could see me overlooking that.
    Joy's all but confirmed that Stubbs was being literal.

    I'm with you, when watching it it just seemed like he was talking shit.

  30. #230
    OK Red Champ Mr. Boombastic's Avatar
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    I like this show, but it's a chore sometimes. I have found myself just waiting for the episode to end several times this season, so that I can go online and figure out what the hell happened.

    I hope they turn it around in season 3.

  31. #231
    GP OG Percussion's Avatar
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    touché, internet..


  32. #232
    Window Licker MikeHunt's Avatar
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    I like layers and slow storytelling but at times this series has even been to much for me. I think they need to be a bit more linear and stop with the constant timeline fuckery and give us more of a straight story. I am a bit concerned about the "youre a robot, you're not a robot" shit and worry that the series gets far too bogged down in it. Series 2 wasn't a patch on the first and really suffered because of the misdirection and twists and turns, they say that that they want to make high brow sci-fi that makes you ponder but this was just flat out daft at times. Alt-shift-x is going to have a tough time picking the last episode apart.

  33. #233
    GP OG Percussion's Avatar
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    The timeline junk was rough at first, but pretty discernible once exposed to the different keys to one timeline from the next. Also I've understood that it was done as to mimic for the audience Bernard's attempts to throw Delos security off his trail when he purposefully scrambled his own memory. An argument could absolutely be made that just having a linear telling of events would have been better for the sake of not exhausting the audience, but I can appreciate their ambition in taking a stab at making an immersive story.

    Agree completely about the who's-a-bot-who's-not element. It was the kind of thing I'd been dreading them getting wrapped up from the moment we found out about Bernard last season. Hopefully they've gotten that out of their system starting immediately next season.

    And the more philosophical 'high brow' sci-fi that was touched on some in regards to having the kind of tech that would allow immortality while our free will is merely a passenger to determinism was enjoyable. The horror element of James Delos trapped in fidelity hell in particular. But it just felt like an afterthought to everything else going on. The first season concentrated intently on the birth of artificial consciousness, this one flirted with big ideas but never really committed amongst the many other balls they were juggling.

  34. #234
    Give me the World Belt, dammit Zarius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Percussion View Post
    touché, internet..

    Wow. Welcome back to 2008 World.

  35. #235
    شهادة مكتوبة Fro's Avatar
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    Aaron Paul is joining the cast for season 3.

  36. #236
    Cirque du Soleil Chris's Avatar
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    They certainly don't skimp on production values in this show. Looks incredible. Really intrigued about seeing so much of the outside world this time.

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