Yeah I wouldn't be negative if they set up something where the ppv's were additional. But if they want me to add another service, they better be giving me a much much better product that what we're getting.Originally Posted by Fanny Batter
Yeah I wouldn't be negative if they set up something where the ppv's were additional. But if they want me to add another service, they better be giving me a much much better product that what we're getting.
In some form or fashion they would be double dipping profits. The only way they truly lose out in the short term is if no one ended up buying the PPV and people saw no value in the library on the Network and dropped it. The reason they’d shift the PPVs from the Network to another platform is because that company with the platform is paying them to move, so it’s more than likely a profit regardless. It’s just a matter of how long the deal is in place with that platform in terms of their leash. Either way, it’s hard to imagine this is sustainable based on what they’re providing their audience and alternatives.
The only major saving grace is they better realize they have to make their program better to incentivize people to pay more. If they make it better, then that entices people to pay up. If it’s the same product as now as they ask for more money, they’re barking up the wrong tree.
Last edited by BGMaverick; February 7th, 2020 at 4:31 PM.
They can't be thinking of any model where the ppvs cost a lot or aren't available on the network.
The ppvs have been 10 dollars for years now and came with a vault of content. Nobody is going to pay old fashioned prices for today's sub par content.
And losing ppvs would kill the network. Everyone says they subscribe for the vault but lose the ppvs and watch that lie crumble.
I do enjoy the vault but if they jack up the PPV prices as well as putting them off the Network then
If they make more via an OTT platform than what they make on the Network on their own, anything that comes from the PPV income is just icing on the cake.
watching summerslam 1999. the wrestling is surprisingly good so far. very solid opener and the tag gauntlet was actually awesome for as long as edge and christian were in it.
this is what 1999 thought looked cool, and they were right
Does the Ruthless Aggression series deserve it's own thread or will we be good talking about it in here? Because I watched episode one yesterday before TakeOver and WOW, it was fucking awesome.
I did not get to see a lot of this era because of the affiliate here in Des Moines would show Smackdown at 11:30pm on Sundays. So 99.9% of my exposure for several years would be recaps on Raw, Velocity, Heat and then the ppvs. It was funny, we'd get Velocity which was SD's b-show but didn't get Smackdown lol.
So going back and watching old Smackdown's on the Network and shows like this really helps me appreciate just how underrated this particular era truly was. I wouldn't mind seeing the entire series on DVD down the road.
My favorite thing to come out of the Ruthless Aggression era was Toothless Agression. I actually never cared for Benoit until that point. Just brilliant stuff. Didn't care for him much after that either.
New Network subscriber right here.
Free month too.
I never got a free month. I signed up on Day 1 too. I want my 30 days free WWE! wee
Still no news on when this Broken Skull Sessions with Bret is happening. Get it on already!
lol. I think it's going to be the next one. I know a shot of Big Show and Austin was circulating the internet recently but the Bret stuff was filmed prior, early January if not sooner. It'll be awesome, these 2 guys are like polar opposites. Austin is loud and animated, Bret is very chill and laid back.
Big Show was on his prior podcast on the Network, it will be interesting to see what they talk about this time.
I suspect the Big Show one's coming first as they've been promoting it on social media and I believe they said it's at the tail end of the month, possible after the Saudi show.
The more I think about it, ESPN+ and Peacock feel like the two major companies that would go with WWE in regards to buying PPV rights. I originally thought Peacock would be the primary choice but I'm starting to lean more towards ESPN+.
Would love to see WWE PPVs on something like Amazon Prime
I could see that if they got out of the Thursday Night Football game. Amazon doesn't strike me as one that is expanding much more than that when it comes to live programming, at least not right now.
So is the plan to get PPVs off the Network and onto something else? If so then @Murphy I may drop my WWE Network.
It's all very fluid at the moment and mainly in the prognosticating stages of what would actually move. The working theory is that the PPVs (all of them) would move to an OTT platform. There's been different theories for if it would be just the big four or all of the PPVs. Then it trickles down to whether or not NXT Takeovers would be a selling point for that platform. The Network would be there mainly for the library and the documentaries they produce, and whatever Indie promotions they want to put on there.
Cancel your subscription. You will get a ton of emails offering you a free month.
I have it back again, with free month.
My boy was too upset. Watched WrestleMania X-7 in it's entirety last week. So nice not being a mammoth show. Clocked it around 4 hours ish, I think.
Does it hold up as my favourite 'Mania of all time? I think it does, aye. Not a dud in sight. Well, Test and Eddie was disappointing, but not a dud and there was the disappointing squash of Ivory by Chyna, but apart from that, I enjoyed the lot. The main matches obviously delivered, but what a bonkers and thoroughly enjoyable match Raven/Show/Kane was. I miss the Hardcore Championship. And even though Jericho and Regal was clunky and had a flat as a pancake finish, I still enjoyed that one.
The main matches, the 'Attitude Era' at it's finest.
It is for me, not only the best Mania ever but the best PPV ever.
The only changes I might have made is to swap the Regal/Y2J and Eddie/Test matches. Have Jericho v Eddy in a 20+ min match and Regal getting squashed by Test. Oh, and don't have the silly 10 minute ref bump in the Taker/HHH match. That aside, it is pretty much perfect.
My ratings would be:-
Rock v Austin *****
TLC 2 *****
Angle v Benoit ****
HHH v Taker ***1/2
Vince v Shane ***1/2
Jericho v Regal ***
Hardcore Match ***
Gimmick Battle Royal **1/2
Six Man Tag **1/2
Test v Eddie **
Chyna v Ivory *
Aye, Taz got concussed early, but that six man was a short, smash mouth brawl. What's not to like?
The gimmick battle royal you are rating very highly, but it was fun, so.
Is it true that The Iron Sheik only won because he was physically unable to take the bump the floor?
Does make sense.
Really enjoyed the Ruthless Aggression documentary with Cena. Seems he had to deal with a lot of backstage hate during his early foray as well as the hate from the fans and then the hate later on when he stopped rapping. The guy is unflappable and I have new respect for him now.
Yeah I think so, good for Iron Sheik there! I enjoyed the hell out of it as it had a lot of characters from my childhood, plus Mean Gene and Bobby Heenan on commentary.Aye, Taz got concussed early, but that six man was a short, smash mouth brawl. What's not to like?
The gimmick battle royal you are rating very highly, but it was fun, so.
Is it true that The Iron Sheik only won because he was physically unable to take the bump the floor?
Does make sense.
Speaking of Cena, I don't care what people say, his movie Playing With Fire is bloody brilliant.
And yeah, I'll be watching the Ruthless Aggression series soon.
You can hear JR laughing in the background when Heenan calls Gene 'Tony'. Kinda ironic when you consider the state of Ross now.
That said, he was getting Benoit and Jericho mixed up 20 years ago.
I remember reading the rumors online that he was going to get released. And to this day I wonder what would have happened had he been released. Would he have gone to TNA? Would he have just called it a day and gone a different route? Great insight into stuff that frankly I just read online and chalked up to internet bullshit until the years went by and you'd hear Triple H saying shit like yeah he sucked and was going to get released for sure. I used to think that was just a way to add to the mystique of John, humanizing his push a little more I guess.
Guessing on his mentality of not giving up, he probably would've tried elsewhere. Never knew joining in a freestyling contest during a bus trip seemed to save him. Actually got Steph to thank in a way for allowing him to do it on TV.
Watching the Evolution one now which is also good.
Don't care to see the Evolution one, but I'd be interested in the Cena won.
Watching the Evolution doc and I can't help but roll my eyes when they're talking about how HHH was the top guy back in the early 2000's. Like... yes, he was the champion... but he lingered there for so long that he became tedious and lingered and lingered and lingered. And, Bruce, he was not the Ric Flair of that time. You fucking mo-mo.
I haven't watched the series yet, but isn't there quite a few head scratching "revisionist" moments? I read that the first episode they said the WWF > WWE name change was to breath new life into the product once Austin and Rock had wound down or something?!
They do that shit a lot with Triple H. I think he was an above average worker, but man he was no Rock or Stone Cold. I didn't like the Rock but he never bored me to tears quite like Triple H did.
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I didn't get that from watching it. They didn't mention why the name change happened, just that it was a chance to change direction and rebranding.
Maybe HHH was put over a bit strongly but my favourite parts was relearning how Orton and Batista struggled at first, hell I forgot they were considering Jindrak as Batista's replacement at one point when he was injured. Good thing they didn't because really he was forgettable. Decent look and left hand for a finisher but nothing to write home about.
Also got done watching Show on Broken Skull Sessions. It was cool seeing him do all those dropkicks in WCW again but then he had to work like a "giant."
His last comments at the end were interesting saying the locker room is "too nice" and Big E in particular should take charge and do business. In two minds about that because I love goofy E but him being more aggressive and having a dominant singles run could also be good. It was almost like he kinda sees a bit of his early self in E goofing around and wanting him to mature a bit and get over.
Last edited by Badger; February 24th, 2020 at 6:34 PM.
Talking about Triple H's ring skills is a bore. What really drove me nuts was his entrance. Week after week, even if he didn't wrestle, he would do his live version of "The Game" music video, complete double water spraying. It got to be hypnotic and sickening at the same time. Totally nothing that rates with Thus Spake...
Cut to Bruce on his podcast talking about how HHH cut the slowest, longest promos on earth during this time. To the point that they were constantly having to cut segments because Trips uh....would talk uh....so uh....slow uh....Im uh....the GAME uh....
God he really is an ass kiss. Love him. But fuck.
I thought the Evolution episode was fucking awesome. I'm someone who was not a big fan of Triple H during this time but man the way he explained Evolution and how it starts with trying to help Flair to building 2 of the biggest names in the last 20 years from essentially nothing. Then tying everything in at the end of the episode with how this all starts with wanting to build up Flair's confidence and how much he had changed from the start of the show to the end. Just amazing.
Say what you want about Triple H but this episode had very little to do with him and almost entirely about Flair, Orton, and Batista.
I'll also say that it's pretty hard to argue in a kayfabe world that Triple H wasn't the top guy in the business. If not the business definitely the WWE, it really came down to him and Undertaker imo. And I don't see how saying someone cut super long promos means while saying that person is the best is kissing ass. If it's true it's true.
Triple H with dry long hair looked stupid!
He spent a good chunk of that period looking like a bag of shit. The hair, either the "Lemmy" or clean shaven, the purple knickers, the gut. Went from looking the absolute business with the classic leather and denim look to Ric Flair with skidmarks.
His Hell in a Cell match with Nash was boss, but he shouldn't have done it in blue. What a tease...
I just go back to Cewsh explaining it to me that made all the sense in the world. You had to have that 2002-2005 stretch to get over Orton and Batista. If you didn't, it wouldn't have been as big of a rub. I agree with whoever said it on the show that he was/is the Ric Flair of that time so to speak. And look at all the shit Flair gets for the way he was booked both by others and himself.
Really like the Truth 24/7 documentary. Been a tough journey for him but glad he's made it.
Is that new? Keen on seeing that. Truth is such a loveable character who seems to be beloved in the WWE locker room as well. Previous WWE productions and podcasts have shown him to be popular with everyone, talent and higher ups alike. 48 years old now, older than Big Show, Mark Henry or Taker was when the streak ended, he still looks and wrestles like someone a fair bit younger.
Yup, it played right after Super Showdown. It’s worth the watch, wrestling really was Truth’s saving grace.
...
Finally signed up to this for the first time ever few weeks ago. My mission is to watch every wwe ppv in order, I’m up to 1991. It’s actually going slower than I thought.
Still loving everything you get on the network, well worth the money.
Watched Bret on Austin’s podcast last night, loved it. Austin was loving Bret, both respect by both men towards each other and was nice when both of them were going over highlights of their matches.
I think 1990 and 1991 had some of my favorite PPVs. Maybe it's because I was a young lad at the time but I remember them all very clearly. Can't say the same for like 1998 onwards.
Yep I loved the early 90’s it’s from when I was a kid too. Some of the 80’s stuff thought was painful to get through.
Just the sheer star power of that era roster. Probably the most recognizable roster to non-fans for sure. Savage, Hogan, Warrior, Andre, Jake the Snake, Mr Perfect, Earthquake, Piper, Bret Hart, Bulldog, Demolition.
Stuff I’m loving/remembering from that era.
1: Randy Savage, Mr Perfect, Bret Hart, Million Dollar Man, Rick Rude and Jake Roberts we’re easily the best.
2: Every heel had a manager
3: Heel manager stables. Heenan, Hart and Slick were priceless
4: So many count outs, DQ’s, double count outs, double DQ’s
5. Matches won, by a simple clothes line, elbow drop or moves you wouldn’t expect now
6. Commentators were on form every single ppv
7. Tag Team wrestling was the best back then
8. Warriors promos were actually nuts
9. I Prefer this old school era to any (just over the attitude)
10. Some classic wrestling matches with really good stories behind them
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I don’t think you’ll ever get a better time of a roster.
11. The awesome theme songs
The lack of proper theme songs for many wrestles is the worst thing about the network. Really takes me out of it. I have copies of most WWF stuff (Superstars, TNT, Prime Time and all the PPVs) on files copied from original broadcasts with the ropey picture and sound quality, I much prefer them though as thats how I remember it.
I LOVE my Tagged Classic DVD sets. All original versions. Can't beat them. I have the lot.
I watched the very first Saturday Night's Main Event last night, from May 1985. This was 6 weeks after WrestleMania.
Not a lot to write home about, really. Short 6-man tag with Rotundo, Steamboat and Windham Vs. Volkoff, Sheik and Steele. Match was just a few minutes in when they turned on Steele.
Hogan defeated Bob Orton Jnr in your standard Hogan match.
Richter defeated Moolah in 4 minutes and JYD beat Pete Doherty, whoever he is, in even less time than that.
There was also a Piper's Pit segment where Orndorff was transitioning into a face. Was ok. 'Mr Wonderful' couldn't act for shit though. Actually, the acting in the final 'Cyndi Lauper's Mother's Day Celebration' was also comically atrocious with Richter, Lauper, Moolah etc. Still, it was wrestling in the 80s.
Not a great start, but these will get better. 2 more SNMEs in 1985.
Broken Skull Sessions with Bret was good and enjoyed them on reflecting on their Mania match. Bret bashing Goldberg is no surprise but at the same tine it was a bit weird that they did leave it in too since Goldberg is champion or Austin at least didn't have something to say a little bit in Goldberg's defense.
A lot of it was retreading old ground though if you've read Bret's book. Screwjob was always going to come up but would've liked a little discussion on Bret's thoughts on the current product and who he likes today. Also on how Bret is keeping himself today. A little Screwjob heavy I think.
Also right at the start, Austin coukdn't remember who he worked with at Survivor Series 97? You'd think he wouldn't forget the Owen mocking breaking his neck angle (they made a shirt!).
I enjoyed it too. The Goldberg bashing was awkward because Austin was silent. Obviously, he and Billy are quite good friends.
I'd agree that they could have delved deeper into other subjects.
It made me want to watch 1996/97 again.
It'll be interesting to see if Goldberg reacts to it.
He reacts to most things, the big goof.
I tend to overreact to things, so I would understand Goldberg if he did.
Plans with the lads tonight is off, so I think I'll continue my SNMEs with a Coors Light or 2.
The run times seem to vary, but should easily get through 1985 and well into 1986 tonight.
I drop them the second their crappy product is one penny more than $9.99 per month for everythin, ppv included.
I have no interest in documentaries on Becky Lynch driving on the road to Lynchomania, Jeff Hardy 5th Road to Redemption Special, Undertaker's 69th Birthday Celebration featuring Michelle McCool, etc.....
So this is Vince always looking for that carny quick buck to appear in one hand when you're watching the other hand.
...And why not? It worked great pulling a rabbit out of a pile of crap when WWF went public and Vince made about a gajillion dollars off of not one penny of his own
Who's to say that the WWE Network will even be around in 14 years to have an Undertaker 69th birthday celebration?
Satire really is too clever and deep for the average rasslin fan, ain't it there, Cousin Clem?
No, I know fully well that you were making an Undertaker is old joke, but I was being satirical right back
Donald 1, NWo 0No, I know fully well that you were making an Undertaker is old joke, but I was being satirical right back
If NWO doesn’t think Donald understands satire, NWO is the one who does not understand.
Well he sure missed the drone on that one, Matt Hardy.
The first few episodes of SNME are a bit of a slog to get through. I'm hoping things pick up.
Never realised that Dean Malenko started out as a referee.
Have you seen the Uncle Elmer wedding yet lol
Ha, yes. Comical. Ventura was having a field day with it.
Anyone else planning on cancelling the Network for a bit after 'Mania?
I've just tried to cancel and it says my account has 'expired' but I'm still being charged...
No option then to cancel...
Never
Never mind, managed to cancel from a different device.
Not paying for Sky Sports either until it all blows over, at least, so saving a bit of cash over the next few months.
Not exactly priorities, but it all helps.
If we see a positive light at the end of the tunnel with the pandemic, it seems like WWE and ESPN+ could be a pairing.
Sports Illustrated reported that:
- The WrestleMania discussions with ESPN also got serious a year ago. ESPN was in deep discussion with WWE last year about having a desk at WrestleMania and airing WrestleMania SportsCenter breaks all weekend, but the talks died the week before WrestleMania 35.
and
- A potential partnership for this year included airing WrestleMania 36 on the ESPN+ pay-per-view service, similar to the manner in which the UFC is covered, until the coronavirus ended those discussions. ESPN did not want to spend such a high price on any event stuck in uncertainty. Had WWE sold the pay-per-view piece to ESPN+ and reconfigured the Network, perhaps this could have been a real windfall for the company. Instead, it pivoted its strategy with access to the WWE Network to lead to more subscriptions. WrestleMania has always been the biggest reason people add the WWE Network, and in addition to television rights, it marks another guaranteed source of income in an uncertain time for WWE. But one thing is certain: ESPN is interested in being in the WWE business.
It's telling that McMahon was reportedly hesitant to be on board with ESPN because, as noted in the report, McMahon did not want to reveal the behind-the-scenes aspects of WWE, including moments after the show, which makes sense because of the history of secrecy in pro wrestling. Of course, all that could have been acquired for an astronomical price, but the footage is far more valuable to WWE than it ever would be to ESPN.
Thought about it. I've used the Network twice in the last 6 months. Once for Rumble and once for an NXT special. There is a really good chance I don't use it again until SummerSlam.
However, as long as the price stays at 9.99 a month I'll probably just keep it going so, if by some odd chance I decided I want to look at something in the vault, I won't have to go through the annoyance of resubscribing.
Now if anything happens in the way of a price increase anytime soon then yeah I'll probably drop it until my interest level picks up again.
Without a doubt, the Edge 24 documentary is the best documentary they have produced. Emotional, inspiration, everything under the sun. So fucking good.
Watched it based on your recommendation and you weren't wrong. Amazing, inspirational stuff. That whole bit when he talks about WWE giving him that ring, then training with Beth and how weird it was pretending to beat her up, then Dash turning up and the details behind their relationship - really touching. It's a shame he won't get to make his announced in-ring return at Mania in front of a huge crowd with Alter Bridge playing him to the ring. But the match with Orton does probably fit the empty arena atmosphere the best and it could well be the standout match from the weekend.
The fact that his mother played such a role in the documentary while probably only being featured once or twice was so incredibly touching. I definitely cried at one point or another during it. This is the gold standard for them in the doc department.
Really looking forward to watching that. Also, the new Taker doc they hyped last night looks fucking amazing.
Browsing is a bit ridculous on this fucking app. Went to WrestleMania 25, then went down to skip to the Kid Rock performance, and it wasn't listed, and it listed a bunch of matches that weren't even on that PPV. Clicked off WrestleMania 25, and then back onto it, and it showed different matches, but still not the WrestleManiad card. Third time was the charm because I finally got the correct content.
Watched Kid Rock, thought it was an excellent performance but the crowd was very silent except for a couple of moments.
Just finished all the Broken Skull sessions as a means to liven up "working" from home. Loved them.
Any other 'people sat down talking about wrestling' shows you guys would recommend? I've watched all the Pritchard stuff already.
Very briefly started my 1997 PPV re-watch.
Knew Royal Rumble would be a rough start, but boy.
Opener is Goldust and Helmsley for the IC Title. It's not exactly bad, but it certainly isn't anything beyond passable.
Ahmed Johnson and Faarooq next. Johnson was an utter mess by 1997, let alone 1998. Absolute dross for a few minutes until The Nation got their man disqualified. Johnson plunges one of the Nation nobody's through a table at the end. This would lead to the super fun Chicago Street Fight at 'Mania XIII though, with the LOD with Johnson, so I can let them off here.
And that's when I decided that enough was enough. Ha. I'm hoping Vader and 'Taker is at least decent. I remember the Rumble having a bunch of unknown to the WWF entrants from south of the border, so I'm not expecting too much from the Rumble itself. And from memory, Shawn was either ill, coked to the eyeballs or both and the WWF Title match with Sid has nothing on their very entertaining scrap from the previous Survivor Series at MSG. But I will finish this show over the weekend.
Looking forward to February's offering of In Your House - Final Four.
Dos Caras eliminates himself in that rumble I think
Mil Mascaras it was, but yep.
Yep just realised my mistake,Duh.
Ah, I remember it well. Wasn't this because he refused to be eliminated?
Also, wasn't Mil Mascaras Vince's favourite wrestler?
I thought it was because he didn't understand the rules tbh lol.
Mil Mascaras was one of my early favorite wrestlers. At the time, he was doing stuff that nobody else was doing, and he really could pop a crowd. He took his character too seriously, as I recall, and refused to let anyone go over him. So he eliminated himself.
Speaking of odd Rumble eliminations, wonder what would’ve happened if the Rock/Show finish from 2000 had gone off without a hitch and Rock’s feet hadn’t actually touched first? Would Rock have got that one-on-one at HHH with Mania and Show not involved at all?
Similar question with Bret/Luger in '94. What if Bret's feet had hit first? Would we have got Luger and Yoko as the main event of X? Probably not.
And of course, Cena and Bats in '05 is still hilarious to me, with Vince.
Lol at a double quad tear am I right? Haha. Fair play though he tried to style it out, I would of been rolling on the floor crying.
Could’ve just come out with a mic restarting the match or taken his time entering the ring.
I thought the second tear was later, due to his stubbornness and not allowing help down stairs.
Only Vince McMahon could that happen to.
But yes, triple tough bastard he is. The freak didn't even flinch.
OK Karen.
HHH tore his quad too and finished the match. He’s also a triple tough bastard.
Nash rolled around, what a baby lol.
Tough or not, he still looks ridiculously goofy trying to be a grown man playing a teenager.
@mth I’m sure you’re aware of this but Big Mawk on Broken Skulls. Make it your viewing pleasure if you haven’t done so already.
@Melly and I are planning to watch it Monday night. Very stoked.
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