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Thread: The WWE Network Thread

  1. #6701
    Sweet Assy Southern Belle Spudz Mackenzie's Avatar
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    "The New Talent Initiative" phase of ECW was great. Remember Sheamus vs. Golddust in their series of matches?

    Regal with Kozlov and Ezekiel Jackson?

    Miz and Morrison vs. Shannon Moore and Jimmy Wang Yang in that 30-minute Iron Man Tag-Team match?

    That shit was fun.

  2. #6702
    World Champion Donald's Avatar
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    scotland
    Like Shelton being racist against Yoshi tatsu?

  3. #6703
    E-Bow The Poster Rancid_Planet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spudz Mackenzie View Post
    "The New Talent Initiative" phase of ECW was great. Remember Sheamus vs. Golddust in their series of matches?

    Regal with Kozlov and Ezekiel Jackson?

    Miz and Morrison vs. Shannon Moore and Jimmy Wang Yang in that 30-minute Iron Man Tag-Team match?

    That shit was fun.
    Yeah that's when WWECW hit its stride. The show was actually fun and exciting to watch for a while.

    I think the show has a legacy though and it's NXT. The company realized what it actually needed WWECW to be and set to work on creating that very thing.

  4. #6704
    Sweet Assy Southern Belle Spudz Mackenzie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donald View Post
    Like Shelton being racist against Yoshi tatsu?
    Did that happen?

    I must’ve missed that.

  5. #6705
    hotthickbutteredtoast mth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spudz Mackenzie View Post
    Did that happen?

    I mustíve missed that.

  6. #6706
    Sweet Assy Southern Belle Spudz Mackenzie's Avatar
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    At least its the black guy that gets to be racist and not have racism perpetrated against him...?



    I've got nothing.

  7. #6707
    OBJECTION Psycho666Soldier's Avatar
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    I honestly felt that segment wasn't bad for the simple fact that Shelton got knocked the fuck out for being racist. It's the sort of thing you don't make a habit of, but the release of that KO was worth it.

  8. #6708
    World Champion Donald's Avatar
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    scotland
    I agree with Psycho. Shelton did get his for those comments. I wish Triple H had lost against Booker T in they're feud which had racial undertones. That would've been great.

    I'm not really bothered by racist jokes, as long as they are meant as jokes. Shelton was going for heel heat and was funny in moments. And it was stasifying seeing Yoshi Tatsu knock his block off.

  9. #6709
    My dad pinned Mr Backlund Kneeneighbor's Avatar
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    ussr
    I am on my way to WrestleMania XI. Really easy to see why the product was struggling at the time. Not only is the Main Event scene struggling but man the undercard is thin.

  10. #6710
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kneeneighbor View Post
    I am on my way to WrestleMania XI. Really easy to see why the product was struggling at the time. Not only is the Main Event scene struggling but man the undercard is thin.
    Definitely a transitional period. It was tough for guys like HBK, Diesel, and Razor at this time because they didn't really have any legends/top guys to go over to be truly made men. Bret and Taker at least were mixing it up with Hogan, Flair, Warrior, Roddy Piper before getting the big push. Yeah sure Diesel squashed Backlund in 6 seconds but that wasn't a program. There was no Hogan, Savage, for those guys to get the rub.

    Yokozuna was someone I always felt was in the wrong place during this time. A Diesel v. Yokozuna feud would have been perfect. Not saying I didn't enjoy HBK v. Diesel, the build was awesome and the match itself was very good. But this Mania was one of those where you're like, damn no wonder they had to make it the spectacle it was.

  11. #6711
    My dad pinned Mr Backlund Kneeneighbor's Avatar
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    ussr
    Well Macho was there at WM X. They just chose to put him against Crush who he went over. Macho leaves and Crush goes no where after.

    The tag division is brutal at this time. At least they hold all of the 8 team tournament on the Sat am show.

    Each week on Raw they are debuting someone new. Mountain Man Rock, Mantuar, Hakushi all in the last month.

  12. #6712
    My dad pinned Mr Backlund Kneeneighbor's Avatar
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    ussr
    One other thing I forgot about that stands out as so bad is when they have the announcers table interviewing someone back stage or doing recaps and the green screen it and then put in fans behind the announcers. So awkward.

  13. #6713
    World Champion Donald's Avatar
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    scotland
    It will be interesting to see how things are when I catch up to WrestleMania XI. I saw that show live, and as a young boy I remember it being the greatest day of my life.

  14. #6714
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    Wrestlemania XI is horrible. One of the worst Wrestlemanias, down there with Wrestlemania 2. Just a sad, depressing show. Everything with the company is wrong at that point.

  15. #6715
    NOICE! Peter Griffin's Avatar
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    netherlands
    At least we got to see two nazis wrestle.

  16. #6716
    World Champion Donald's Avatar
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    scotland
    Quote Originally Posted by The Law View Post
    Wrestlemania XI is horrible. One of the worst Wrestlemanias, down there with Wrestlemania 2. Just a sad, depressing show. Everything with the company is wrong at that point.
    I've always heard that WrestleMania IX is the worst, followed by XI and 2. It's sad to hear that cause it was a great live experience. Oh well.

  17. #6717
    My dad pinned Mr Backlund Kneeneighbor's Avatar
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    ussr
    I disagree that 9 was the worst.

  18. #6718
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    WM 2, 9, 11, 15, and 27 are the 5 worst in my opinion. WM 1, 7, 13, 29, and 32 round out the top 10

    WM 6, 17, 19, 24, and 30 are my top 5. I think 5, 20, 26, 31, 33 round out the top 10.
    Last edited by PurePlayer; March 28th, 2019 at 10:02 AM.

  19. #6719
    Home Cewsh's Avatar
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    9 is my favorite. It absolutely sucks but in a really fun way.

    2 is the biggest mess, 12 is the most boring, but 16 is actually the worst.

  20. #6720
    Real Sam Hill Sinner's Avatar
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    what's people's opinion on Mania 23?

    I was there Live, and loved it. So it's hard to watch it and not enjoy it still.

    It had Lashley/Trump vs Umaga/Vince, Undertaker vs Batista, a great MITB match, Cena vs Michaels and the pretty darn good MVP/Benoit

  21. #6721
    E-Bow The Poster Rancid_Planet's Avatar
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    I haven't seen 23 in a long time but I recall feeling like people shit on it unfairly at the time.

  22. #6722
    Sweet Assy Southern Belle Spudz Mackenzie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinner View Post
    what's people's opinion on Mania 23?

    I was there Live, and loved it. So it's hard to watch it and not enjoy it still.

    It had Lashley/Trump vs Umaga/Vince, Undertaker vs Batista, a great MITB match, Cena vs Michaels and the pretty darn good MVP/Benoit
    Its weirdly hard to enjoy anything Trump was involved in now, but Undertaker/Batista was great, Cena/Michaels is one of the more underrated Michaels 'Mania matches. Was that Money In The Bank the one that involved Flair and Finlay? That was good fun.

  23. #6723
    X Ringo's Avatar
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    The reaction to 23 on here was pretty damn positive as I remember. More so than 22 for sure.

    The Flair/Finlay MITB was 22.

  24. #6724
    World Champion Donald's Avatar
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    scotland
    I think it's why I love XI so much, I was there live and enjoyed the experience so much that it's one of my favorites.

  25. #6725
    My dad pinned Mr Backlund Kneeneighbor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cewsh View Post
    9 is my favorite. It absolutely sucks but in a really fun way.

    2 is the biggest mess, 12 is the most boring, but 16 is actually the worst.
    I agree that 12 was a snooze fest. The back lot brawl with the OJ stuff from like 3 years earlier wasnt topical or all that interesting. Also had the Warrior 30 second squash of HHH.

  26. #6726
    Sweet Assy Southern Belle Spudz Mackenzie's Avatar
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    Wrestlemania 11 has a really good Diesel/Shawn Michaels match that’s marred by being a mid card title match and Shawn going up for the Jackknife like a sack of wet hammers. Aside from that, isn’t that the show Yokozuna returned on as Owen Hart’s mystery partner? There’s not much there besides LT to get hyped for.

  27. #6727
    My dad pinned Mr Backlund Kneeneighbor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spudz Mackenzie View Post
    Wrestlemania 11 has a really good Diesel/Shawn Michaels match that’s marred by being a mid card title match and Shawn going up for the Jackknife like a sack of wet hammers. Aside from that, isn’t that the show Yokozuna returned on as Owen Hart’s mystery partner? There’s not much there besides LT to get hyped for.
    Spoilers dammit! I havent gotten there yet for the mystery partner.


  28. #6728
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    12 had some really good matches. HBK v. Bret, amazing. Diesel v. Undertaker, probably Undertaker's best match in the company to that date and a great build. Roddy Piper v. Goldust, for that time, the era we were getting into it was ahead of it's time by about 2 years. The OJ stuff was corny but everything else was incredible.

    It makes you wonder what the Razor-Goldust match would have been like though had Razor not been a dumb fuck.

  29. #6729
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    yeah 12 wasn't the greatest Mania but I rank it ahead of the likes of 27, 29, 32 for sure which are in my top 10 for worst Manias. Those other shows are longer and more boring. The Shane/Taker HIAC and Reigns vs HHH matches were 10-15 minutes too long. each. Mania 29 had a bunch of rematches and the booking of a couple matches made no sense.

    I think 21 and 23 are very underrated. 23 had three really good matches and 21 was solid all around but the two world title matches were a miss. The show went downhill after the Angle/HBK match.

  30. #6730
    World Champion Donald's Avatar
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    scotland
    Is there a WrestleMania that's perfect from start to finish, or do they all have a misfire somewhere?

  31. #6731
    World Champion Murphy's Avatar
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    yugoslavia
    I really liked 23.

    'Mania X-7 is as close to perfect as it gets. The gimmick battle royale was supposed to be 'bad'. Plus, we got Heenan and Mean Gene on commentary, so. Excellent.

  32. #6732
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    24 and 19 were perfect for me.

  33. #6733
    GO ON LAD Fanny Batter's Avatar
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    What's amazing about 17 is that it had no business being that good. The company had creatively hit a wall, and the popularity was certainly already on the wane. Main event was a rehash, TLC was a rehash, HHH/Taker and Angle/Benoit were thrown together, title matches didn't have much build, Vince/Shane wasn't well built, King leaving. It just worked. Lightning in a bottle. The goodwill from an all time great show in No Way Out, the return to stadium shows after 9 years, the intrigue with the WCW purchase, and having the best roster they will ever have at one time, most at their peaks or close to.

  34. #6734
    World Champion Donald's Avatar
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    scotland
    Watching some of these old RAWs and realizing how many people on them are now dead, only 26 years later is pretty sad. Yokozuna, Mabel, Giant Gonzalez, Mr Perfect, Owen Hart, Earthquake, Bam Bam Bigelow, Bossman, Crush, Bulldog, Ludvig Borga, Luna Vachon, Doink...I get a lot of them were obese but damn man they'd all probably be in their late 40s/early 50s and still alive. Makes me sad.

  35. #6735
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donald View Post
    Watching some of these old RAWs and realizing how many people on them are now dead, only 26 years later is pretty sad. Yokozuna, Mabel, Giant Gonzalez, Mr Perfect, Owen Hart, Earthquake, Bam Bam Bigelow, Bossman, Crush, Bulldog, Ludvig Borga, Luna Vachon, Doink...I get a lot of them were obese but damn man they'd all probably be in their late 40s/early 50s and still alive. Makes me sad.
    I think some of these were suicide as well.

  36. #6736
    World Champion Donald's Avatar
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    scotland
    Bit funny watching jobber Hardcore Holly feuding with Lesnar.

  37. #6737
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donald View Post
    Bit funny watching jobber Hardcore Holly feuding with Lesnar.
    lol. Back in the day where it was mandatory you had to feud with the guy who broke your neck.

  38. #6738
    World Champion Donald's Avatar
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    scotland
    I was like Holly I know you have a reputation as a stiff worker but damn Lesnar would eat you up and spit you out in a legit fight. Same thing with that loser JBL.

  39. #6739
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donald View Post
    I was like Holly I know you have a reputation as a stiff worker but damn Lesnar would eat you up and spit you out in a legit fight. Same thing with that loser JBL.
    Dudes like Holly and JBL are the worst type of wrestlers on the planet. These are wrestlers who take liberties on other wrestlers because the other wrestlers put their trust in these guys hands and these 2 fuckers will gladly use that against them. It's like when you get sucker punched by some one walking up going "Naw man we cool I won't do nothing" and then boom a 3 piece and a soda hits you quick.

  40. #6740
    World Champion Donald's Avatar
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    scotland
    Love the stories of the big bad tough guys getting schooled by some loser like Jericho or Booker T. must be a huge ego break

  41. #6741
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donald View Post
    Love the stories of the big bad tough guys getting schooled by some loser like Jericho or Booker T. must be a huge ego break
    JBL is by far the biggest scumbag in the history of wrestling in terms of what goes on in the ring. Why? ECW One Night Stand. Serving Blue Meaning 4-5 legit punches all because Meanie didn't think JBL was the nicest guy on the planet. But Joey Styles knocking out JBL made up for all that and you never heard JBL try to bow up to anyone after that.

    My problem with wrestlers with that whole "I'm the toughest guy in the world" act is just that, a fucking act. They're tough in terms of what their body can take in the ring but I promise you 90% of the "tough guys" in wrestling aren't stepping up to any mediocre martial artist ready to throw hands.

  42. #6742
    E-Bow The Poster Rancid_Planet's Avatar
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    I'm gonna have to change my setup. Starting may 21st WWE Network will no longer work on

    Amazon Fire Tablets
    - Apple TV (3rd Generation and earlier models)
    - LG- 2016 and earlier models
    - PlayStation 3
    - Samsung (2016 and earlier models)
    - Samsung and Sony Blu-Ray Players
    - Sony (non-android TVs)
    - Windows 10 Desktop
    - Xbox 360

  43. #6743
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    God bless the PS4!

  44. #6744
    Don't just stare at it... Bagel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rancid_Planet View Post
    I'm gonna have to change my setup. Starting may 21st WWE Network will no longer work on

    Amazon Fire Tablets
    - Apple TV (3rd Generation and earlier models)
    - LG- 2016 and earlier models
    - PlayStation 3
    - Samsung (2016 and earlier models)
    - Samsung and Sony Blu-Ray Players
    - Sony (non-android TVs)
    - Windows 10 Desktop
    - Xbox 360
    Same here, been using a PS3 for it mainly, sometimes the Fire tablet. Also have an LG TV but not sure of year. Was looking at getting a new TV anyway, cheaper alternative than PS4.

  45. #6745
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smeagol View Post
    Same here, been using a PS3 for it mainly, sometimes the Fire tablet. Also have an LG TV but not sure of year. Was looking at getting a new TV anyway, cheaper alternative than PS4.
    I think you should just get a PS4. Not just for network but PS3 is out and better games and graphics on the PS4 too. Better value in the long run than buying a new TV I think.

  46. #6746
    E-Bow The Poster Rancid_Planet's Avatar
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    I have to get a PS4 so I can play Last of Us 2 anyway.

  47. #6747
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    Was watching an old Raw just before Survivor Series 1998. Boss Man was beating up Vince's stooges in the cage then Austin and Taker come out to go at it followed by Kane who sets parts of the cage on fire. Such a cool visual that I had forgotten.

  48. #6748
    hotthickbutteredtoast mth's Avatar
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    Anyone else watch the Holy Grail thing about the Bret Hart vs. Tom McGee match? Pretty interesting stuff but I'm still not clear on why things didn't pan out with the guy. Seems like they raised the question a lot better than they answered it. It just suddenly turned into "Well, because Bret was the real star" but they also said it took them a long time to figure that out, so it didn't really address McGee fizzling out. It also was weird/disappointing that they end it by showing the match to him and Bret but then that's it, they don't come back to either of them to get their reactions. Seems like the logical and nice way to end the thing would've been with McGee giving his thoughts on it. They took the time to get the guy and interview him about the match, which he's never actually seen, and then show it to him and then...

  49. #6749
    too big to fail Tainted Eclipse's Avatar
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    gonna watch no way out 2000 tonight

    - - - Updated - - -

    it would be cool if they released viewership numbers for the pre-network PPVs.

  50. #6750
    World Champion Donald's Avatar
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    I wish there was a way to set up a personal queue of content. Like you would add the first few RAWs, then the 1993 Royal Rumble, then the next few RAWs, then WrestleMania IX. This way you don't have to switch back and forth from shows to PPVs.

    Any news if they are planning to add more Heat or Superstars?

  51. #6751
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    Kenny Omega just destroyed WWE on their decision to stream Evolve at the same time as Fight for the Fallen. Fair play to him.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by mth View Post
    Anyone else watch the Holy Grail thing about the Bret Hart vs. Tom McGee match? Pretty interesting stuff but I'm still not clear on why things didn't pan out with the guy. Seems like they raised the question a lot better than they answered it. It just suddenly turned into "Well, because Bret was the real star" but they also said it took them a long time to figure that out, so it didn't really address McGee fizzling out. It also was weird/disappointing that they end it by showing the match to him and Bret but then that's it, they don't come back to either of them to get their reactions. Seems like the logical and nice way to end the thing would've been with McGee giving his thoughts on it. They took the time to get the guy and interview him about the match, which he's never actually seen, and then show it to him and then...
    McGee couldnt wrestle out of a paper bag

  52. #6752
    Soldier of The Cross DVDA's Avatar
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    Kenny Omega is a chode.

  53. #6753
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    Best wrestler on the planet.

  54. #6754
    World Champion Donald's Avatar
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    Cause he knows AEW is going to get crushed.

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    yugoslavia
    This is quite the gimmick you've developed, Donald.

  56. #6756
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    He must be worried otherwise he wouldn't say anything. Double or Nothing did great business, so it would be assumed this new show will do good business, regardless of what else is on. And it's competition. Don't go start up a wrestling promotion if you don't want to be the best or go up against the best. If you are truly elite, there is nothing to worry about.

    And calling it blood money, I've come to the conclusion that lotjx is Kenny Omega. WWE is in Saudi Arabia to make a positive impact, and change the ways of the country. It's not about blood money, it's about making a difference. But sure it's ok to hold events in the US who's done equally amounts of bad in history, but just hide behind freedom and 'Merica bullshit.

  57. #6757
    GO ON LAD Fanny Batter's Avatar
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    All that money they're earning from the Saudis going straight to charity then?

  58. #6758
    hey Matthew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donald View Post
    WWE is in Saudi Arabia to make a positive impact, and change the ways of the country. It's not about blood money, it's about making a difference.
    this is not remotely true. it's a money grab. a pretty transparent one, at that.

    foolish. time to find another way to seek attention.

  59. #6759
    World Champion Donald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fanny Batter View Post
    All that money they're earning from the Saudis going straight to charity then?
    It's going to the superstars who are helping to make a change.

  60. #6760
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    WWE going to Saudi Arabia for a show isn't going to change anything for good or for bad. Its just a show.

    If Metallica, to throw a big band out there, went and played a show at the "Beheading Infidels Dome" and put on a 3-hour banger of a performance for all their fans, would anyone care? Fuck no. They're just dudes doing their jobs.

    The WWE isn't a monolithic entity with a sentience all its own. Its a live event company with a TV presence, with shareholders and investors and money to make and be paid. The WWE itself isn't getting booked in Saudi Arabia. There's deals and money negotiations and travel and pay and scheduling and, as Jim Cornette might say, the whole "dog and pony show". There's hundreds of people involved in booking a show in Saudi Arabia before anybody even starts putting pen to paper and figuring out how long to give Balor vs. Andrade.

    Its a company full of people just doing their jobs.

  61. #6761
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    The difference in your example is that Metallica themselves probably would have chosen whether or not to do the show.

    In WWEs case it is Vince. Unless you are someone with serious clout like Cena or Bryan, then you are going. The performers don't have the choice for the most part.

  62. #6762
    hey Matthew's Avatar
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    that doesn't change the point he was trying to make, at all

  63. #6763
    too big to fail Tainted Eclipse's Avatar
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    next time they go roman reigns is going to walk right up to the king and DEMAND they give women the right to vote

  64. #6764
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    Hey why don't they go to Russia and see your pal Putin?

  65. #6765
    too big to fail Tainted Eclipse's Avatar
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    putin only watches aew and new japan

  66. #6766
    OBJECTION Psycho666Soldier's Avatar
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    Honestly, I thought Omega's tweet was kinda petty and more shits on EVOLVE than WWE. Don't be mad because a shoe is booked the same day as yours, regardless of the cause.

  67. #6767
    hey Matthew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tainted Eclipse View Post
    next time they go roman reigns is going to walk right up to the king and DEMAND they give women the right to vote
    this is not YOUR YARD

    it is THEIR YARD

  68. #6768
    too big to fail Tainted Eclipse's Avatar
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    watching backlash 2000. actually never saw the show. holy shit this crowd is hot just for this edge and christian vs. road dogg and x-pac opener.

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    yugoslavia
    Amazing show. Just brilliant. And such a hot time in WWE at the time, too. Backlash 2000 is what 'Mania should have been. 2000 is probably my favourite year for WWE on PPV.

  70. #6770
    My dad pinned Mr Backlund Kneeneighbor's Avatar
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    I am half way through SummerSlam 1995 and there are a lot of things ahead of their time. The opener is 1-2-3 Kid vs Hakushi in a match that would fit in on 205 Live.

    Then later you have Kama "The Extreme Fighting Machine" whose gimmick is that of a UFC Fighter be fore that was even really a thing people were talking about. His stuff would have fit today as well. There was more but I just found it interesting because in a time when the WWF was down and trying to find its next wave they had a lot of good things going on along side the bad.
    Last edited by Kneeneighbor; July 1st, 2019 at 9:47 AM.

  71. #6771
    NOICE! Peter Griffin's Avatar
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    netherlands
    1995 bro

  72. #6772
    too big to fail Tainted Eclipse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Murphy View Post
    Amazing show. Just brilliant. And such a hot time in WWE at the time, too. Backlash 2000 is what 'Mania should have been. 2000 is probably my favourite year for WWE on PPV.
    the thing is if you put the undercard matches move for move on a PPV today it wouldn't be received too well at all, even matches that got praise at the time like malenko/scotty. but the whole show was just so much fun to watch -- the hot crowd, the sense of it all building to a massive main event that everyone really cared about, much much much better production and filming style, much much much better commentary. it's just so much better to watch than what they put on today. and of course you did have jericho/benoit in a great match, show/angle as a great memorable moment, and a blockbuster main event. and the crowd was going nuts constantly. just something like scotty's worm got a bigger pop than anything in WWE this entire year, and it's not even close. to say nothing of the pops in the main event.

  73. #6773
    too big to fail Tainted Eclipse's Avatar
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    i feel like if someone got vince to sit down and watch a bunch of RAWs and PPVs from 2000, just that might be enough to spur him to make some major changes. night and day.

  74. #6774
    too big to fail Tainted Eclipse's Avatar
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    for all the justifiable flack on WWE for hiring writers with no background in wrestling, chris kreski was head booker from october 99 to november 2000 and it was the best top to bottom american wrestling booking ever done bar none.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Kreski
    Kreski's extensive use of storyboards was mocked by many in the WWF during his tenure, but they enabled him to achieve a high degree of continuity in his storylines, which began to devolve into semi-coherence following his departure.
    lol

  75. #6775
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    Kreski was the man. I'm sure I read they eventually shafted him in favour of Stephanie lol.

  76. #6776
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kneeneighbor View Post
    I am half way through SummerSlam 1995 and there are a lot of things ahead of their time. The opener is 1-2-3 Kid vs Hakushi in a match that would fit in on 205 Live.

    Then later you have Kama "The Extreme Fighting Machine" whose gimmick is that of a UFC Fighter be fore that was even really a thing people were talking about. His stuff would have fit today as well. There was more but I just found it interesting because in a time when the WWF was down and trying to find its next wave they had a lot of good things going on along side the bad.
    Wrestling was not as bad as people make it out to be in 1995 in terms of the talent and even some of the characters and storylines. The problem was simply that pro wrestling is a niche form of entertainment that has peaks and valleys, sometimes not at the fault of the content available, just that it's not high on people's lists of things to watch.

    I spend a lot of time defending this era being a fanboy of Kevin Nash where I have to point out that hey, Hulk Hogan wasn't retired and he was doing even worse numbers than Diesel.

  77. #6777
    My dad pinned Mr Backlund Kneeneighbor's Avatar
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    There was a lot of bad on this card as well.

    Skip vs Barry Horrwitz
    Issac Yankem
    Mable

  78. #6778
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kneeneighbor View Post
    There was a lot of bad on this card as well.

    Skip vs Barry Horrwitz
    Issac Yankem
    Mable
    Oh without a doubt.

    I can't hate on Skip v. Barry Horriblewitz. Anything that gets Sunny on camera, especially in 1995-1996, holy fuck.

    This card is just another example of the WWF losing so many main event/upper midcard guys in a short period of time that they had to basically take everyone who was over and put them against people that were not even close to being over.

    Diesel, Bret Hart, and Undertaker all had matches against talent that realistically had no business being in the mix with them. Diesel v. Bret or Undertaker for the World title would have been cool. Honestly, if I'm booking, I would have already turned Diesel by now and him go over Bret and then Bret get the win back at Survivor Series ending Diesel's year long reign.

  79. #6779
    World Champion Donald's Avatar
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    Never been a fan of 30 minute wrestling matches. The entertainment side of wrestling is what always kept me hooked. I loved squash matches, the ridiculous gimmicks, and the insane moments. Basically I'm saying I enjoyed Triple H vs. Ultimate Warrior at WrestleMania XII a hell of a lot more than the Iron Man match.

  80. #6780
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donald View Post
    Never been a fan of 30 minute wrestling matches. The entertainment side of wrestling is what always kept me hooked. I loved squash matches, the ridiculous gimmicks, and the insane moments. Basically I'm saying I enjoyed Triple H vs. Ultimate Warrior at WrestleMania XII a hell of a lot more than the Iron Man match.
    I think it depends on the talent for me. Cena v. Randy Orton going 30+, fuck that. Elias v. The Miz? Nope. You just have to find the right pairing and 30 minutes goes by fast.

    I will say that watching a 60 minute match is tough I don't care who the talent is. I watched that Kenny Omega-Okada match that was from a year or 2 ago that went over 60 minutes, and it wasn't that great. I can only imagine being there live lol.

  81. #6781
    World Champion Donald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nash Diesel View Post
    I think it depends on the talent for me. Cena v. Randy Orton going 30+, fuck that. Elias v. The Miz? Nope. You just have to find the right pairing and 30 minutes goes by fast.

    I will say that watching a 60 minute match is tough I don't care who the talent is. I watched that Kenny Omega-Okada match that was from a year or 2 ago that went over 60 minutes, and it wasn't that great. I can only imagine being there live lol.
    Probably why I was a fan of guys like Warrior, Snitsky, Strowman, and Gangrel cause those guys sure as shit couldn't wrestler for 20 minutes consistantly. Though Warrior did have a good match with Savage at WrestleMania VII.

  82. #6782
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donald View Post
    Probably why I was a fan of guys like Warrior, Snitsky, Strowman, and Gangrel cause those guys sure as shit couldn't wrestler for 20 minutes consistantly. Though Warrior did have a good match with Savage at WrestleMania VII.
    lol.

    I mean some of those guys with the right person and the right match stipulations, could have an entertaining 20-30 minute match for sure.

  83. #6783
    World Champion Murphy's Avatar
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    Going back and watching a Bryan Danielson ROH DVD and seeing him wrestle a near 60 minute match in a leisure centre, seemingly just for the hell of it. Yeah, I'm not going to lie, I don't care how technically great the match is, I just don't care.

    I loved ROH in 2006 and I have fond memories of Danielson's run on top with the title, but I reckon if I watched that run back now, I'd find it hard going.

  84. #6784
    too big to fail Tainted Eclipse's Avatar
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    the boom period really ended with the dropping of the angle/triple h/stephanie love triangle. triple h could have been a much bigger star than he ended up if they went through with the triple h face turn agaisnt kurt and stephanie together. i don't know how much longer the boom could have possibly lasted but that was the program to keep it going at least a couple months more than it did.

  85. #6785
    World Champion Donald's Avatar
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    I get the feeling Triple H always prefers being the heel so it was probably up to him.

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    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donald View Post
    I get the feeling Triple H always prefers being the heel so it was probably up to him.
    It's true. Going back to WM 17 when Austin turned heel, Triple H was supposed to turn babyface but opted to stay heel. They had this whole angle of heel Austin v. babyface Triple H, instead we got the Two Man Power Trip or whatever. Which in a way wasn't that bad of an idea because that was when the Hardyz, Lita, Benoit, and Jericho really elevated by working with Austin and Triple H. Especially Team Xtreme.

    Thinking back to that Angle-Trips-Stephanie storyline, were the fans really getting behind the idea of Triple H being the one coming out of that as a babyface? I didn't watch a lot of wrestling during that period of time I was very in and out of every promotion that was around.

  87. #6787
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    Deffo, yeah.

  88. #6788
    too big to fail Tainted Eclipse's Avatar
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    yeah, it was a super hot angle and the fans were really getting behind triple h and against kurt.

    i had the RAWs between backlash and judgment day 2000 on in the background today as i browsed the internet etc. maybe will keep going through all 2000. old RAWs make good background viewing.

    for all the flack WWE's gotten in recent years for throwing PPV cards together at the last minute, the iron man match was the only match announced for judgment day by the go home RAW.
    Last edited by Tainted Eclipse; July 1st, 2019 at 7:03 PM.

  89. #6789
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    RAW in the year 2000 was really good imo. It shows how hot wrestling was that when the biggest star went away with injury, business kept booming

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    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    If I remember this correctly, 2000 was the biggest year for the WWE in terms of ratings and ppv buys. Austin was on t.v. here and there but didn't really do a whole lot. Coincidentally, this was probably the year I watched wrestling the least in my entire life up until the last year or so.

  91. #6791
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    I think TV ratings were higher in 1999 (they dropped a lot when they switched over to TNN in the fall) but 2000 was bigger on pay-per-view (massive buy number for Backlash tipped the scale).

    I've got the TV ratings in a spreadsheet (no idea why I did this) and 1999 averaged a 6.06 while 2000 averaged a 5.87. Weak ending to the year (after moving to TNN) cost 2000.

  92. #6792
    GO ON LAD Fanny Batter's Avatar
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    2000 was great. Certain programmes were able to develop in the background before blooming generally. Kurt Angle in particular was such a fleshed out character - by the end of the year he had his affiliation with Edge and Christian, competitive rivalries with Benoit and Jericho, consistently intimidated by the Undertaker, the conflicted love triangle with Steph and Triple H, rivalry with Hardcore Holly over the broken arm, with the 2 biggest stars in wrestling chasing his title. There's at least an effort with Seth nowadays - Brock lurking, Becky relationship, Corbin feud - but everything feels locked in a canon. It'd be great if they could flesh out friendships, competitive TV rivalries and loose alliances across the board again.

  93. #6793
    E-Bow The Poster Rancid_Planet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Law View Post
    I think TV ratings were higher in 1999 (they dropped a lot when they switched over to TNN in the fall) but 2000 was bigger on pay-per-view (massive buy number for Backlash tipped the scale).

    I've got the TV ratings in a spreadsheet (no idea why I did this) and 1999 averaged a 6.06 while 2000 averaged a 5.87. Weak ending to the year (after moving to TNN) cost 2000.
    I've often wondered if the move to The National Network didn't really fuck the WWE over. I'm sure Vince thought the audience would come with them but they didn't have nearly the market that USA did back then. Right at the zenith they made a choice that took their product out of millions of homes.

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    too big to fail Tainted Eclipse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fanny Batter View Post
    2000 was great. Certain programmes were able to develop in the background before blooming generally. Kurt Angle in particular was such a fleshed out character - by the end of the year he had his affiliation with Edge and Christian, competitive rivalries with Benoit and Jericho, consistently intimidated by the Undertaker, the conflicted love triangle with Steph and Triple H, rivalry with Hardcore Holly over the broken arm, with the 2 biggest stars in wrestling chasing his title. There's at least an effort with Seth nowadays - Brock lurking, Becky relationship, Corbin feud - but everything feels locked in a canon. It'd be great if they could flesh out friendships, competitive TV rivalries and loose alliances across the board again.
    and to some degree almost everyone was integrated into the main event storyline. angle, edge and christian, too cool and rikishi, the radicals, jericho, big show, all somehow in the mix of the rock vs. triple h/mcmahons story, which of course in itself included x-pac and road dogg. undertaker and thereby kane too. really made almost every single person on the show feel like a real star.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tainted Eclipse View Post
    and to some degree almost everyone was integrated into the main event storyline. angle, edge and christian, too cool and rikishi, the radicals, jericho, big show, all somehow in the mix of the rock vs. triple h/mcmahons story, which of course in itself included x-pac and road dogg. undertaker and thereby kane too. really made almost every single person on the show feel like a real star.
    BINGO.

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    it was like the entire show was one overarching storyline with all the heels vs. all the faces actively involved, topped with rock vs. triple h, and side-plots of the overarching faces vs. heels/mcmahons that dominated the show.

    seems like a pretty different philosophy from the 98-99 era where you had a super hot main event scene build around a couple guys, and at times a pretty dire undercard, though you had some over novelty gimmicks.

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    the may 29 2000 RAW, which i just finished, is the best of the ones i've seen so far. really hot show, too cool win the tag titles, better in-ring stuff than usual, edge and christian and JOE C stuff backstage, hot ending segment.

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    I'm the J-O-E to the C ho, call me Joe C got more game than Coleco, I'm a freak ho call me sick, 3 foot 9 with a 10 foot dick.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PurePlayer View Post
    BINGO.

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    in the interest of chronology im going to try to watch king of the ring 2000. wish me luck.

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