Yeh that was a little strong mate.
Yeh that was a little strong mate.
Well now I have to watch Holy Foley, to see this vile looking kid.
You shouldn't throw stones if you live in a glass house. So post up a pic of yourself and let's see what you bring to the table.Originally Posted by Murphy
A little harsh, perhaps. Sometimes think I'm in the Asylum, clearly.
As for Fall Brawl '96, it was decent.
Decent opener with DDP and Chavo. Never liked Chavo much at all, but he showed good fire here. And DDP is clearly on the rise.
Norton Vs. Ice Train in a submission match. According to Tony Schiavone, "it's a bit like an I Quit match". Geez, thanks for that Tone.
Benoit and Jericho was very good. I'm always going to struggle with Benoit matches, but it was good.
Juvi and Konan was good in parts, but was also messy as hell in others. Juvi falling over the steps on his entrance.It was also pretty obvious that Juvi wasn't going to be winning the Mexican Championship here because Konan appeared to have forgotten to bring it.
Mysterio and Calo was pretty good.
Nasty's and Harlem Heat was a good scrap.
Savage and Giant was crap. Cannot enjoy Savage in WCW. At least, not in this babyface run. Spends 99.9% of the time getting his arse handed to him.
The Sting stuff in the main event was iffy at best, but I like where it's going. Main event was good and heated, but too short.
And much like Schiavone earlier, Michael Buffer said the main event could be won by "submission OR surrender".
6/10.
Last edited by Murphy; September 1st, 2016 at 10:03 AM.
I remember even to this day a lot of people will go "Savage joining the nWo made no sense." Well it did if you paid attention to how many 10 minute ass beatings he took every week from the nWo. It was the whole if you can't beat 'em, join 'em approach and I would have joined too if it meant I didn't have to get spray painted 40 different colors and have to take 12 finishers every Nitro and ppv lol.
Yeah but when he did join he was aligned with Sting. They basically scrapped the story they were telling for a quick twist.
That's what made it even better, that little twist where you thought "Sting has a real ally" and nope, Savage was just waiting for the right time. And it was smart, what made Sting's angle cool, well one of them, was that he was on his own. Even though people wanted to support him like Lex Luger and the Steiners, even they knew that at any moment Sting could drop down and Stinger DDT their ass because they didn't believe in him. And that was great as well, the most loyal babyface in WCW having his loyalty questioned and how that affected him.
It seemed to me like they were setting up something like The Avengers with Savage and Sting coming together. They made overtures to DDP, presumably Giant, Luger, and Steiners would be next. Bring together the elite to finally take down the NWO. They dropped that and put Savage in the NWO instead. I don't think the NWO needed Savage, though it did lead to that awesome feud with DDP and DDP becoming a star. I think the NWO being Hogan, Hall, Nash, Syxx, and some lackeys was good. You could have lackey wrestlers or just literal security guards. Vincent being the "head of security" was pretty lame, that would have been a much better role for Big Boss Man. Who was in fact part of the NWO, but they never gave him anything to do.
I did always think the NWO needed numbers. A gang of three or four guys, even if they're huge stars, just doesn't feel like they're going to take over the company. It was also really profitable for WCW to be able to advertise that the NWO was coming to house shows in tiny towns that Hall and Nash weren't going to make. Sure, it would turn out the NWO was Vincent, but the tickets were already sold by then.
The nWo had too many older cats. I wish they had been able to use more of the younger talent. It seemed like the young talent was basically The Giant, Buff Bagwell, and Syxx. Nash and Hall were probably the next youngest in their late 30's but then everyone else I believe was in their 40's. Guys like VK Wallstreet should not have been in the nWo. They were boring, past their prime, and the nWo didn't get them any more or less over no matter what anyone says. I liked when they brought in Konnan, that was different.
I agree, I don't think the nWo NEEDED Savage...but his heel work was so much better than what he had been doing and again, you more than likely wouldn't have had DDP shoot to the top as fast as he did without that Savage program, that was probably my favorite feud at the time.
Just watching the first look at the hardcore title dvd and so fare we have Mick Foley, RVD and fucking RAVEN being introduced and sitting round a table together. It's hardly that big of a deal but it's still neat to see Raven involved with a WWE project.
I'm glad I didn't watch that last night after the Kendrick-Ibushi match, I don't think I could have handled seeing Raven. He's one of my all time favorites and I LOVE listening to him talk about wrestling. I was just listening to some of his shoot on Jericho's podcast, it was great.
It's basically a 26 minute preview, you have to the dvd to hear him talk so more
What are some quotes he had?
Well he called Dreamer a crybaby and kept reminding everyone he was a 39 time champ.
Quote the Raven nevermore...
Wasn't Raven part of one of those class action lawsuits against WWE? I'm surprised they would have any contact with him.
I like to think that a majority of the guys who were part of the lawsuit were just looking for a quick way to make a buck, but truly enjoyed their time in WWE and realize that their injuries are do to crazy styles of wrestling.
Awhile back Raven and a couple others tried to sue the WWE for being viewed as an "independent contractor", not to be confused with the more recent lawsuits about concussions.
A match that is up there with Bret Hart vs Tom Magee is terms of a holy grail of lost matches may be posted to the WWE Network. In a Hidden Gems collection thing it sounds like the Last Battle of Atlanta will be on the network. It was believed to not exist.
Holy shit. I will have to look into that.
Who the fuck is Tom Magee, and what the fuck is the battle of Atlanta?
Tom Magee was a guy who had a tremendous look. Legend has it on like his first WWF Taping he had something approaching a five star match with Bret Hart. Vince saw it and decided Magee was gonna be the next Hulk Hogan. From that point on Magee was basically the worst wrestler of all time. When you work for WWE you can request any match they have in their vaults. For some reason the one match that gets requested and no one ever gets to see is Tom Magee vs Bret Hart.
The Last Battle of Atlanta is the blow off to the Wildfire Tommy Rich vs Buzz Sawyer feud in an enclosed cage, think like a proto Hell in a Cell, in the Omni in Atlanta in October 1983 I want to say. No one outside those in the building that night have ever seen it. Tommy Rich hasn't seen it. Legend had it on that one that Ole Anderson destroyed all the footage for whatever reason.
You mean any current employee can request tapes to study kind of thing? Interesting, story that I have never heard before, curious how someone goes from 5 star matches o worst roster member mind.
I don't remember Sawyer fat all and only remember Tommy from the FBI so would be interesting to see them in what I assume was their peak.
Like if this is a legit, and apparently it comes from a good source, then this is the kinda thing that would get me to subscribe.
Unrelated question, you can still subscribe for free right?
Free month yes.
One would think that match had to be a Bret Hart carry job. Several wrestlers who used to work there have talked about it. Colt Cabana is the guy who tells the story of trying to get tape of that match the most often.
To be totally honest the legends of both those matches have been so built up I'd doubt either could live up to it.
Oh fuck I was just reminded by twitter. If you've ever seen Shawn Michael's first DVD they made right after he came back he talks about a cage with a roof match that made him think up Hell in a Cell. The Last Battle of Atlanta is that match.
I haven't seen that Shawn DVD in what must be a decade.
Just watching some Monday Night Wars on the network, on the ep 'The fall of WCW' They show Steiner on Nitro saying "Grab the remote, change the channel to the WWF and watch Stone Cold. Because WCW sucks!"
I think you'd like the Cruiserweight Classic and the NXT PPVs...
This. Lots of this. Defrost won't watch his favorite guys because he's worried what WWE will do with them ya?
Then CWC would be something he could def enjoy. It's a stand alone thing. No real storylines, no McMahons, no hunter. Seems perfect for Defrost
Fuck I'd enjoy reading Defrost's opinion on anything WWE related.
Him reviewing raw would be the high light of my week. The slow descent into utter madness would be amazing.
The CWC and NXT PPVs is kinda Hunter though isn't it and produced by WWE. I think that may be stopping him watching regularly. Just an assumption, I don't really know.
He is entitled to watch what wrestling he likes, so it's up to him.
Last edited by Badger; September 4th, 2016 at 6:45 AM.
I agree, he of course is entitled to watch what he likes. I consider subscription good value for money and I only watch CWC & NXT, but that doesn’t mean to say defrost would like either of those shows enough to justify the subscription.The CWC and NXT PPVs is kinda Hunter though isn't it and produced by WWE. I think that may be stopping him watching regularly. Just an assumption, I don't really know.
He is entitled to watch what wrestling he likes, so it's up to him.
Watching WCW Nitros from 1997. Just got past Super Brawl where Savage joined the NWO. Anyway, on Nitro Luger challenges Bischoff to a match with "all the belts on the line, WCW vs. NWO" for Uncensored. So that seems like a match where all the champions on both sides would fight and the winning side would win all the belts, but that's not what the match ends up being. It ends up being WCW vs. NWO vs. Four Horsemen. If I remember, here are the stipulations:
-If the NWO wins, they get shots at every title belt whenever they want.
-If WCW wins, the NWO is banned from wrestling for three years.
-If the Horsemen win, Piper gets a Steel Cage match against Hogan.
Team NWO won, I don't really know if they followed through on getting the title shots. They had almost all the belts already anyway (Hogan was world champ, Outsiders tag champs, Syxx was Cruiserweight champ. The only belts they didn't have were the US and TV titles). The stipulations were weird and unbalanced. Obviously the NWO isn't going to lose and be banned for three years. I don't know why the Horsemen would care about Piper getting a cage match against Hogan. Also kind of heelish for Piper to be putting his personal grudge against Hogan above a chance to get rid of the NWO.
This was also the mess with Piper doing "try outs" for his team on Nitro where he fought a boxer, a kickboxer, a wrestler, and then John Tenta showed up. And then a week later they dropped it and gave him the Horsemen as his team instead.
It's just an example of the kind of thing WCW was never good at, the details. When WWF would do a stipulation match, they would always lay out exactly what the rules were and explain it in a way that made sense. Here they announced a stipulation, didn't explain it, and didn't follow through on it.
That sounds like a complete mess.
It really was. There was no real consequence from it that I remember, the stipulation was totally unclear. Oh, and Piper ended up getting a cage match against Hogan anyway. It just felt like one of those things where there were too many cooks in the kitchen. Bischoff, Hogan, Piper, Hall and Nash, Sullivan, everybody mixing things together and it ended up making absolutely no sense. I'm sure the Piper segment was his idea and it was a complete disaster.
I think this is the segment:
Thing seriously goes on for near twenty minutes. Apparently the ratings sunk like a stone. The audible to put the Horseman with him was probably the right call.
I think they did something similar with Fall Brawl 1996 where there was some super unclear stipulation for the main event. Like if the NWO won they could "do whatever they want" or get control or Nitro or get WCW contracts. It seemed like it changed every week depending on who was talking about it.
Yes. That is very typical WCW in that period. It led to everything leaving a dissatisfied flavor in my mouth anytime I tried to really get into it.
After Austin won the belt there was no challenger ready for him, and Vader would've been perfect. He had been out with an injury for a month or two at that point. He could've come back as Vince's hired gun to take out Austin.
Last edited by Venom_Axe; September 5th, 2016 at 1:14 PM.
Yeah, that would have been cool. The Austin/Foley feud ended up being pretty great and elevated Mick, but Austin vs. Vader would have been fantastic. Such a natural fit for Vader to be McMahon's muscle. Vader is the type of guy it's easy to heat up, he comes back and squashes a few people and then stiffs the shit of Austin and he's back to looking like a contender. But I think they had just given up on Vader by that point.
WCW was great as a wrestling product. I love watching old Nitros for the wrestling. They have so many fantastic workers: Benoit, Malenko, Guerrero, Ultimo Dragon, Juventud Guerrera, Fit Finlay, Regal, Booker T. Then the depth is crazy where they have guys like Greg Valentine, Bobby Eaton, Dave Taylor coming in occasionally just to do jobs. And I love the atmosphere being a sports show: they always start with a match, the show is based around the matches that are happening that night, the wrestling is the most important thing going on.
The storylines are the drawback. Like, any individual Nitro is usually great in a vacuum. It's just that the pieces don't really fit together. Storylines get dropped, pop up out of nowhere, drag out forever, get picked back up after it seemed like they had been abandoned. If you somehow could have combined WCW's wrestling with the WWF's logic and storytelling you really would have had the greatest wrestling promotion ever. That's part of why I like 1997 and 2000 WWF so much, they combined great wrestling with storytelling and logic. 1998 and 1999 by contrast are heavier on the Crash TV and they had a lot less wrestling talent on the roster in those years.
The infamous tryout segment. The video above shows this guy
Also, there seems to be no footage of it and Wikipedia doesn't help, but it's said that Goldberg had his unofficial debut as 1 of the guys Piper chooses.
Oy, next episode of Nitro. It's the episode with the Piper tryouts, which is a fucking debacle. Also Bischoff gets "suspended" from WCW by one of the Turner executives, but he's back by the end of the show because apparently Ted Turner loves him. The storyline is ridiculous, Bischoff obviously breached his contract by joining the NWO and acting against WCW's interest. No pay off to the storyline at all, Bischoff gets his comeuppance for 10 seconds.
Also, they just announce that WCW has added Piper to the Uncensored match. Because WCW is run by idiots and want to lower their odds of winning the match.
They're still portraying the match as being for the NWO's titles. And no mention of how many people are on each of the teams. We can assume it's four each because Piper's team is four guys, but no official announcement for this enormous match.
None of them were Goldberg. I assume they were all dudes from the Power Plant. There are rumors that Goldberg was considered for one of the spots. That would have been a real mess to feed Goldberg to Piper in two minutes like that. Or if they had booked Goldberg strong it could have been a huge debut, but Piper didn't give any of these guys much of anything.
Oh, the the promotional materials for Uncensored were still advertising it as being no titles on the line like it had been the previous couple years.
Last edited by The Law; September 5th, 2016 at 4:31 PM.
His debut at the Rumble and the attack on Gorilla Monsoon perhaps previewed things for Vader. He was treated like a monster, and he just steamrolled over everybody in his path. In 1998 though, he was just treated like a piece of shit. Just awful booking. I feel that he would've made an ideal henchman for Vince's Corporation rather than bringing back Big Boss Man.
Just imagine an Austin-Vader feud in 1998.
The best part of that Uncensored ppv hands down is the end where Sting drops down and kicks ass.
Vader....One has to think politics kept him from winning the belt. There are like 100 people who were there that said he was supposed to win the belt from Shawn at Summerslam and then drop it back to Shawn at the Rumble in San Antonio. I know Shawn didn't like how snug Vader wrestled, at all, so I have to wonder if Shawn's dislike of Vader and not really wanting to keep wrestling him prevented Vader from getting the strap. So Shawn drops the belt to Sid, who was very over himself-one of the most over guys at the time, and Shawn/Sid had a built in storyline already. Believe what you want I guess.
Got my free month. Going to watch the Last Battle of Atlanta.
Good match
WWF failed from the get go in promoting him correctly. However Vader had injuries he was working through at the end of his WCW run. So after having this break into the WWF, he was forced to get surgery. Talk about a heat killer. What's even more sad is Vince was getting Vader coming off of defeating Anderson and Flair in the same match. Anywhere else you look, be it CWA, Japan, WCW, they all got Vader over. Heck Leon was even over as a commodity in the AWA when he broke into the business so the blowing of Vader as a draw had nothing to do with Vader's age.
Considering in 1999 alone Vader put on a MOTYC against Misawa at the Tokyo Dome. When he went to WWF, I suspect that McMahon and company were more interested in knocking on WCW than putting on a good product for their fans. So they jobbed him out to make their stars appear bigger than WCW's (compare the success of this strategy to the success of WCW bringing in Hall and Nash and pushing them to the top). Also WCW was playing clips of guys like Hogan going over Vader to make their stars appear bigger than the WWF's. It was a bunch of worthless dick fencing. It didn't help anyone and only hurt Vader.
After that, Austin's push really started to kick in to high gear, and Vader's heat was apparently considered to not be worth the effort to salvage by the WWF. So they stuck him in one pointless angle after another jobbing him out along the way.
Question about the free month. If I unsubscribe does it still run through the whole month or do I wait for the last second to unsubscribe?
If you unsubscribe now, you will get access until a month from your sign up date.
Since you've come over to the dark side and subscribed, do yourself a favour and check out some NXT. Watch some of the Takeovers and in particular, Revival vs Gargano/Ciampa, Sasha vs Bayley, Zayn vs Neville and Zayn vs Cesaro.
I think I'll watch the 1988 Survivor Series instead #lapsed.
watch the extreme rules aj styles/roman reigns match.
and do watch that revival vs. gargano/ciampa tag.
watch brian kendrick in the cwc.
do now.
i dont know why you people still try.
Watch Camp WWE.
Watch Survivor Series 2002.
I was there. You can find me next to the chibi Jericho sign my wife made in the upper deck.
I have that on DVD
I'll do the first. Probably not the second. Maybe the third.
I'm planning on taking some 4-Ho-MiPT and trippin out to it this weekend. Fuckin great PPV.
I had forgotten that the fans thought it was Fuji turning babyface not Demolition on this show
Definitely do the second.
If you are going to watch a Roman Reigns match, at least watch a Revival match!...that also has Gargano and Ciampa!
Never been a big Ciampa fan
Me either, but who cares, it's the Revival.
Watch The Edge and Christian Show That Totally Reeks of Awesomeness
How do you forget Nakamura vs Zayn?
Also watch Balor vs Owens beast in the east.
I also enjoyed Jushin Liger vs. Tyler Breeze.
It was ok. Nothing special.
I watched that show live
Well when I say show I should really say I watched Brock beat up Kofi and then moved on.
Watched The Last Battle of Atlanta and Joe/Regal from UPW. Sheamus on commentary. Quite enjoyed their match, actually. What the hell was Joe wearing though?
By the way NJPW World is like a thousand times easier to navigate and it's in a language I can't read.
Watching now. For some reason I find myself really annoyed at the whole Roman package here. Like his gear and entrance music are grating on me for some reason.
The commentary is really bad and they haven't touched yet
Watching this match I can't stop thinking about a story Hiroshi Tanahashi told after Invasion Attack. When he was a heel in 2008 he was so fucking good. Keiji Muto gave him some advice because of this. He said when you're a heel you have to be careful because if the fans start cheering the heels and booing the faces too much you'll break wrestling. With Cena and now Reigns I think WWE broke it.
Like Roman Reigns has been really good in this match and every chant is you can't wrestle or you still suck
Though Reigns' set ups for his big moves are pretty cringe worthy
Yeah they have no idea how to book wrestling. The finish of this match was a complete muddled mess. AJ is supposed to be the heel so his guys run in, but Reigns basically spends the rest of the match cheating his ass off while AJ is valiantly trying to fight off 3 guys.
I'd be curious in your reaction to the finish of their next match where AJ shoots Roman right between the eyes with a rocket launcher only for Roman to kick out and spear him.
Roman vs A Rocket Launcher would be awesome.
He no sell and spear it so hard it exploded and wiped out the entire east coast.
Worse things could happen...
Ok now watch some NXT amd report back.
Not sure why fans chant "You Can't Wrestle" at someone who clearly can. I'd imagine someone like Jericho saying "Neither can you, idiot!" back.
stop.
Naw man I got this Jerry Lawler vs Brooklyn Brawler match from a mostly empty minor league baseball stadium from 2 weeks ago to watch.
Tidbit I actually considered going to this show, but I had to work that Saturday.
I don't know if you watch TNA but EC3 used to have the best response. They'd go "You Can't Wrestle" and he'd say "Yes I can" they'd say "You Can't Wrestle" and he'd go "I'm very good" or some shit like that it was hilarious and that was what finally made me a fan of him as a heel. Just clever.
Would like to see old episodes of NXT put up. From the beginning of the show.
Aye, totally agree on that.
And I want to see early Thunder too. And Shotgun!
Anyone else having issues watching Backlash? All shows run fine for me, except Backlash.
I'm watching the Ride Along with Enzo/Cass & the Dudleys. Bubba's reading twitter questions and someone asks "if they could put only one more person through a table, who would it be?" D-Von says Stephanie McMahon. Holy Shit!
I want Heat, Velocity, Jakked, and Metal. Any of those syndicated shows. They all had some really solid, fun stuff hidden on them that nobody saw. They're a fun, easy sit. Also, how about WCW Saturday Night, WCW Prime, and WCW Pro? I've been watching those and even reviewed an episode of Pro for another site. Those are fun, B and C-shows.
Watched The Last Battle myself recently. What was the script with Ole's denims - did they blade or something?
The match was ok for the time period etc, but the Ole/Paul 2nd match I could have lived without. Seems Bret and Vince at Mania got their inspiration from this match, and I don't mean that as a compliment.
I was watching Summerslam 2000 again recently with the HHH/Steph/Kurt storyline with Kurt kissing Steph. It's funny watching them put over how much she liked the kiss, but I'm sure I read an interview some time ago that she hated it!
Such a promising storyline that never got properly resolved.
Good PPV though, eh?
Oh it was excellent. 2000 is one of my favourite WWE years ever.
In-ring wise, 2000 is my favourite. Or possibly tied with 2008.
As for overall product, I adored 1997.
I'd probably edge 1998 over 1997 overall. 97 had big moments like Hart/Austin, Taker/HBK and the screwjob for on. However there was a lot of crap as well like the gang wars, Sid as champ, Faarooq/Ahmed as well.
1998 was consistently more entertaining for me.
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