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Thread: NBA for the outsider (FAO The Americans)

  1. #1
    World Champion Glen's Avatar
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    Icon7 NBA for the outsider (FAO The Americans)

    I'm throwing myself on your mercy here Americans.

    I used to follow the NBA massively...not ridiculously so, but rather like your average American mate who LOVES soccer... that sort of level. The days of Karl Malone, John Stockton, Charles Barkley, Scotty Pippen. Back when LeBron was at the Cavs. Anyway, that kinda brings me to my point.

    The NBA really confuses me now. I don't understand how teams have changed cities. I don't understand how the draft works anymore. I don't, apart from my affinity and number of friends from Dallas, even know who to support anymore.'

    Don;t ask me why, but for years I supported the Cavs. Then LeBron came and went, so I decided, well, I like Rondo, so I'll give the Celtics a year. Didn't float my boat, so I decided to go to the ol' faithful, the Mavs. I even toyed with Chicago because I love the city so much. But never The Knicks. Fuck The Knicks... But anyway. Now? I'm stuck.

    I'm a massive Americaphile. I spent 4 weeks of my life driving 4 and a half thousand miles across your fair country, but I need your help. I need this season explaining to me. I need to understand where Brooklyn came from, why Seattle don't have the Sonics anymore but Oklahoma now have the Thunder, why The Celtics have gone to shit, why one team don't just dominate the league for years and years because they have the money or the manager (see Man Utd. Chelsea etc in the EPL). Who do I need to watch? Who are the underdogs? The threats? Who made great trades? And if so, why?

    In short, I want to enjoy the NBA again, but I feel so out of touch with it, I thought asking your help would ultimately help me do that.

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    retired Myles's Avatar
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    I'm from Canada, but I love basketball. Nothing beats the 4th quarter of a playoff basketball game. Like you, I grew up on John Stockton... all the other kids cheered for Jordan and the Bulls but I had to be different and cheers for the Jazz.

    I missed most of this last season since I was in Asia and it is all manu and soccer shit all the time, but I support teams that don't have Lebron James on them. I also hate the knicks. For the past ten years or so I have supported whatever team Steve Nash is on since he is a class individual. Bit tough these days since he is part of the lakeshow.

    I realize this post doesn't help you much, but I'm interested in this thread, hopefully some American diehards will answer some of your questions. 30 for 30 has some amazing docs on basketball, look up the Allen Iverson one, and reggie miller vs. the knicks. Both are interesting.

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    I have quite a lot on this. Too much to do from my phone. I will make a detailed post for you later tonight which will explain everything and particularly why you should always suppport the Lakers.

  4. #4
    World Champion Glen's Avatar
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    I'm willing to be convinced. I like gold and purple, but it always tends to be "the douche in the basketball shirt" who supports The Lakers.

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    1-800-Call-My-Bluff Fro's Avatar
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    The Heat are the best team in the league and with them you are watching a potentially all time great dynasty unfolding. People don't like Lebron but are coming around on him now that's he's got 2 rings. He could end up in the elite company of only Jordan and Kobe if he gets a few more rings. And he's simply the best and most athletic player in the league so he's fun to watch.

    The most popular team/player in the league is probably the Oklahoma City Thunder and Kevin Durant. They used to be the Sonics before moving to OKC 5 years ago or so. They are a good team to root for with Russell Westbook being their other star player. Durant has won 3 of the last 4 scoring titles and is considered the second best player behind Lebron.

    The New Jersey Nets moved to Brooklyn and changed their color scheme to black and white which looks pretty sharp if you ask me. They're a flashy team that got rejuvenated by their move to Brooklyn and have made some big player acquisitions lately (including trading for Kevin Garnett and Paul Pierce), and are poised for a strong run in the next 2 years. They're another good team to root for.

    Kobe suffered a major injury toward the end of this past season and the Lakers shit the bed without him. It will be interesting to see how strong he comes back given that he's 35 years old and joined the league at 18. He's the best player since Jordan and probably has 2 more years in him before retiring. Fuck the Lakers though, don't root for them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glen View Post
    I need to understand where Brooklyn came from.
    Brooklyn was formerly the New Jersey Nets. They were bought by a billionaire Russian investor and moved to Brooklyn because New Jersey is a shithole. Brooklyn had been after a team for some time. Jay-Z had a big part in this, as he was involved with both the Nets and the new arena in Brooklyn.

    why Seattle don't have the Sonics anymore but Oklahoma now have the Thunder
    The owner chose to move the team when his lease with the city on the arena and all came up. There's a lot of technical finance stuff that goes into moving your team, but they got clearence from the league and went for it. They changed their name to the Thunder, but they still have all of the lineage, players, etc of the former Supersonics.

    why The Celtics have gone to shit
    The Celtics were built for the short term. When the acquired Kevin Garnett, they knew full well that their nucleus of Garnett, Pierce and Allen had a small window before they would get too old to really be productive. They had a great run, but the contracts started to come up, so they let Allen go (to the Heat), and dealt Garnett and Pierce to the Brooklyn Nets for a truckload of draft picks. It was actually a savvy move, because they were going to have to rebuild sooner or later anyway, and next year's draft is one of the most talent full in years. They're officially in roster rebuilding mode.

    why one team don't just dominate the league for years and years because they have the money or the manager (see Man Utd. Chelsea etc in the EPL).
    Well the salary cap is the simple answer. Each team is allotted a specific amount of money that they can draw from to pay talent each year, including a maximum salary somewhere in the low 20 million dollar a year range. Recently, the Miami Heat experimented with signing 3 mega stars and a bunch of scrubs to surround them, and that's been a major success, so you'll likely see more of that. But financially, it's all but impossible to have a team with more than 3 big stars on it.

    Who do I need to watch?
    Pretty much everyone. But the really hot teams this year are the Heat, the Bulls, the Nets, the Warriors and the Thunder. Also, the Rockets will be very interesting now that they've gotten Dwight Howard.

    Who are the underdogs?
    The Golden State Warriors are the underdog darlings of the league this year. The Pacers, the Raptors and the Timberwolves fall under that heading too.

    Who made great trades? And if so, why?
    Check out this ESPN article. Their anaylsis is very hit or miss, but you'll get a general idea of what's going on:

    http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/...-offseason-far

  7. #7
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    I'll bite....

    "I need to understand where Brooklyn came from"

    A real estate mogul has been trying to gentrify the area where the Barclays Center now resides, with new areas for living, shopping areas, etc. Eventually, Mikhail Prokorov came and bought the team with the intention of bringing the team to Brooklyn and the bravado creed of taking over New York. Originally, the Prudential Center was made to house the New Jersey Devils in hockey and the New Jersey nets but the owner decided to be stubborn and just take the team over anyway.

    "why Seattle don't have the Sonics anymore but Oklahoma now have the Thunder,"

    The Sonics are the Thunder. They were moved after a dispute over a new arena, which seems par for the course in the league. This was done a year after they had drafted franchise player Kevin Durant. Earlier this year, the owners of the Kings threatened to move the team away from Sacramento to an ownership group ready to bring the team to Seattle. Sacramento Mayor (and former NBA Player) Kevin Johnson as well as several constituents fought and the team was sold with the intent of keeping the Kings there for the foreseeable future.

    "why The Celtics have gone to shit,"

    They got old. Pierce, KG, and Allen are on the decline with all of them in their mid 30s when Ainge a couple years back made mention of blowing the team up if it meant to improve the long term future of the team. The writing was on the wall with Rajon Rondo's contract signed to keep him as a big money player and future of the franchise. The domino effect started earlier last year when Ray Allen signed with the Heat in the hopes of getting away from Rondo (reportedly dislikes him) and winning another title (mission accomplished). About less than 2 weeks after the Heat's Game 7 win over the Spurs, Ainge pulled the trigger and traded Pierce, KG and Jason Terry to Brooklyn for draft picks and throwaway contracts. Doc Rivers, who was about to be paid $7 million to coach a rebuilding team, disagreed with the direction of the team and bolted for the Clippers.

    why one team don't just dominate the league for years and years because they have the money or the manager (see Man Utd. Chelsea etc in the EPL).

    "With the lockout from the 2011-12 season, the league's salary cap structure still allows a soft cap (the ability to go over the cap limit in the hopes of retaining your own talent to a point). However, there's a level tax structure that dissuades some franchises from going crazy. I believe every dollar over the cap, you're taxed a dollar. When you're $10 mil over the cap, you're taxed $1.50/dollar. And so on.

    Who do I need to watch?

    I'll assume you mean the highlight reels or the guys "fun to watch." The Clippers earned the nickname of Lob City. They're led by Chris Paul and Blake Griffin. Paul was a part of a big controversy where a trade was in place to send him to the Lakers to play alongside Kobe. The 3 way trade was set, with Pau Gasol on his way out to go to Houston (someone correct me; too lazy to look it up again) when Commissioner David Stern vetoed the trade citing "basketball reasons." Yes, that was actually a thing. Instead a new trade was made, and Paul is now a Clipper. With Doc Rivers at the helm, Clippers are a favorite among critics to challenge for the West. If you go on YouTube and search for "Clippers" and "dunk"... enjoy.
    Other teams that are fun to watch: the Warriors with the one of the most efficient shooting backcourts statistically in NBA history with Stephen Curry & Klay Thompson playing alongside newly acquired Andre Iguodala. George Karl coaching the Nuggets and their "no superstar" brand of ball. Cleveland has retooled with superstar in the making Kyrie Irving leading a team of players who are mostly in their early-to-mid 20s, along with a potentially resurging Andrew Bynum, who may finally be over his knee surgical pains which kept him out of all of last year.
    And if you're one of those hoop heads who wants to see the future of the NBA, check out the Orlando Magic. They're going to be awful, record wise. But their GM is 1 of the most well regarded young executives in the league and is putting together a team of young trade chips.

    Who are the underdogs?

    If I had to pick, the underdog teams are probably the Warriors, Grizzlies, Nets and my beloved Knicks. The Warriors have been covered already. The Grizzlies are a bruising team with argaubly the best C/PF combo in the league in the younger and now better Gasol brother, Marc and Zach Randolph; they made their presence known when they took on the #1 seed San Antonio Spurs in the 2012 playoffs and knocked them out in the 1st round. The Nets have the most lethal lineup on paper with former All-Stars Brook Lopez, Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, former Atlanta Hawk Joe Johnson, and former Utah Jazz Deron Williams (the latter 2 were acquired in trades in 2011). Their fault is that their core group is a bit long in the tooth so their conditioning may be monitored to the detriment of the team. The Knicks are one of the oldest teams in the league, but do field a roster of Carmelo Anthony, Tyson Chandler, & the shell of Amar'e Stoudemire; the team has been full of injuries and tend to lean on the aged veterans, but drew the respect of the league by knocking off the Heat in the regular season series, twice when shorthanded.

    The threats?

    The Heat are the team to beat. The universal contenders for their crown among the sports writers are the Thunder, Spurs, the Clippers, the Pacers and the Bulls. The Thunder have the strong core of All-Stars Kevin Durant & Russell Westbrook, along with Serge Ibaka; all 3 have been playing together for the past 4 years, taking the team to the 2012 Finals and they're all under 25 years old. The Spurs get older; they still aren't to be underestimated. George Popovich is the longest tenured coach in the league and is probably the closest to a soccer coach that you can find, as he will rest players from Tim Duncan all the way down the roster as he sees fit regardless of if they're able to play or not. His Spurs team lost to the Miami Heat by a single digit margin in a regular season game without Duncan, Tony Parker, Manu Ginobili and role player Danny Green. Why didn't they play? They were sent home to rest. Did I mention this was in Miami on national television?
    In the East, the Pacers are considered the biggest threats to the Heat, as Paul George is looking to become the next superstar the league has and Roy Hibbert as one of the best Centers in the league. The Chicago Bulls lost to Miami in the playoffs as they went in battered & injured without former (and youngest ever) MVP Derrick Rose, Luol Deng and Joakim Noah, who played only the last 2 games of the series. Everyone coming in healthy allows for a more fun landscape.

    Who made great trades? And if so, why?

    The big craze came in 2010, which was the free agency period that changed the landscape of the league. Lebron and Bosh went to Miami. Amar'e went to the Knicks. Carlos Boozer went to the Bulls. David Lee with no place in NY, signed with the Golden State Warriors. And Armageddon began. The Heat made it to the Finals to lose to the Dallas Mavericks. That's right. Dirk has a ring. Tyson Chandler was acquired to be his muscle in the paint; he has a ring. Ageless wonder Jason Kidd now has a ring.
    The big trades that eventually came later was Carmelo Anthony to the Knicks with way too many players involved to name (seriously, it was like a 6 for 5 trade). Then there was the Dwight-mare. Short version: Dwight Howard was non-committal with staying in Orlando, then said he was staying due to "loyalty," reportedly said he didn't want Stan Van Gundy to remain coach, Van Gundy got fired, signed on for another year, non committal about staying in Orlando again, forces a trade to the Los Angeles Lakers, gets back surgery, comes back to lead the league in rebounds, seemingly helps Kobe lead a loaded team with Howard, Pau, Kobe and Steve Nash to an 8 seed, where Dwight disappears in the playoffs, and then reportedly chooses Houston for a chance to lead his own team.

    Oh how could i forget. Jason Kidd played in the playoffs in May. He retired in June. 2 weeks later, he became a Head Coach... for the Brooklyn Nets.


    I think that's all you need to known as a primer, with the rest fleshing itself out once you watch a few games.

  8. #8
    hey Matthew's Avatar
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    glen we can watch games together when it starts up. i would love to.

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    hey Matthew's Avatar
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    really hope glen was the one who made this thread

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    Sir Jones of Launceston Eggbert Spam's Avatar
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    I'm fairly surprised to hear that American sports have salary caps. Seems like a socialistic restraint of trade.

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    World Champion Murphy's Avatar
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    I can't really offer anything here. But I decided to start watching a bit of NBA last season and bloody loved it. For some reason, as unpopular as it appears to be, I was drawn to the Knicks.

    Enjoyed a bit of the Thunder though and thoroughly enjoyed the Finals with the Spurs and the Heat. I think it was the 5th game of the final when the Spurs were on fire. That was bloody good.

    Plan on watching it again this year, though I no longer have ESPN. Sky should have a good chunk of it again though, I imagine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eggbert Spam View Post
    I'm fairly surprised to hear that American sports have salary caps. Seems like a socialistic restraint of trade.
    Baseball doesn't, but the the other ones do. The reason for it is that the owners and the leagues pretty much create monopolies within the sports, and the players have trouble really getting their way on anything. That's why every sport here has a strike every ten years or so.

  13. #13
    World Champion Glen's Avatar
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    Fucking hell lads, superb insights here, thank you very very much, particularly Cewsh and JRSlim21.

    So, here's where I stand:

    I can't bring myself to support Brooklyn (even though black and white are my colours) because it's still New York and Jay Z is a prick who gave his daughter a stripper's name. The Hawks, Celtics, Cavs, Pistons, Pacers, Heat, Bucks, Knicks, Magic, 76ers, Raptors and Wizards all leave me cold in the East, so that leaves Charlotte and Chicago.

    In the West, The Nuggets, Warriors, Rockets, Grizzlies, Timberwolves, Suns, Blazers and Kings leave me cold. That leaves the Mavs, Clippers, Lakers, Thunder, Spurs and Jazz.

    My only affinity to Charlotte is Ric Flair related, Chicago is CM Punk related. I've spent a lot of time in Dallas, but I never really dug the Mavs, I probably wouldn;t support The Lakers as it seems too obvious, it's like supporting Man Utd, I'm intrigued by the Clippers, but didn't they used to just be the NBA's whipping boys? As my affinity to any state in the US would be to Texas I'm dubious about supporting Oklahoma, but for some reason, I 've relly dug the eay they've played whenever I've seen them. The Spurs are just there because they're Texan (and I dislike Houston, the city, although I do dig their acquisition of Howard) and I used to support the Jazz back in the day of Malone/Stockton. Where on earth did The Pelicans come from, by the way!?

    At the moment, I'm leaning toward Oklahoma, and The Clippers.

    By the way, Anthony Bennett as no. 1 draft pick to the Cavs. Big shock?

    I still need help.

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    If you want to actually enjoy your team, the Thunder, Bulls and Clippers are all good options. The Clippers sucked for 30 years, but now have a great team, the Bulls are getting Derrick Rose back, and the Thunder are amazing. Just decide whether you prefer Chris Paul and Blake Griffin, Derrick Rose and Joaquim Noah or Russell Westbrook and Kevin Durant.

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    Main Eventer Kimura Kid's Avatar
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    Obvious answer here is Chicago......Duh!

  16. #16
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    This year's draft class was considered "poor" by talent evaluators. The safest option to be good in this league are Victor Oladipo, who is a teen movie waiting to happen. He went from down the bench role player at Indiana to catalyst and All-American (Sporting News named him POY). He went #2 to Orlando. IIRC, this year's draft was the most watched draft of all-time due to its unpredictability. Going into the year, Kentucky's Nerlens Noel was pegged as the #1 pick. Eventually, Kansas' Ben McLemore emerged as the potential #1 pick. Up until draft time, it started to be a Noel/McLemore debate on who was the better pick to take for Cleveland. McLemore was the better fit as his ceiling is higher than the current 2 guard but Noel was considered a better prospect despite Cleveland investing in 2 young big men over the past couple of drafts. Then there was talk of Maryland's Alex Len as the pick to be the franchise Center. In the end, Noel went #6 to the Pelicans nee Hornets who traded him to the Sixers. McLemore went #7 to the Sacramento Kings. Len went #5 to the Phoenix Suns, due to the concerns of his stress fracture in his foot. (Note: Noel and Len both won't be ready to play until mid-season due to injuries, Noel's being a torn ACL). Georgetown's Otto Porter was a name flirted with the top pick since there was no long term option at SF, but he ended up going #3 to the Wizards. That left room for the 1st ever Canadian #1 selection in NBA history, UNLV's Anthony Bennett. A SF in a PF's body. Literally every other pick was a surprise, including the free falls of Noel/McLemore.


    Oh yea, in some naming rights tie ups. The Charlotte Hornets ended up moving to New Orleans, who haven't had a franchise since the Jazz moved to Utah (for those who didn't know that, now you know why Utah of all places would have a team known as the Jazz). Hornets management said they needed to shed ties with the old city, so they filed for a name change and came up with... the Pelicans. The state bird. Meanwhile, Michael Jordan owns the Charlotte Bobcats where he is as bad an owner as he was as good a coach. He's constantly hiring yes men and friends (he hired his own brother as asst. dir. of player personnel), and seemingly cutting ties with them just as quick. But he did the smartest thing he's ever done since up in the suite; he filed to do a name change to switch from the Bobcats (which was originally an homage to original owner Robert "Bob" Johnson.... get it?) to the Hornets. So the New Orleans Hornets will be the New Orleans Pelicans next season while the Charlotte Bobcats will be the Charlotte Hornets starting in 2014.

    In closing, I leave you with the greatest heel in NBA history:





    And for non-American fans


  17. #17
    World Champion Glen's Avatar
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    I've decided.

    The Bulls in the East and the Thunder in the West.

    Fuck it.

  18. #18
    retired Myles's Avatar
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    the bulls are horrible, entitled cunts, and chris paul is a horrible human being. Blake Griffin is one of the most spoiled primadonna fucks around, he is also retarded and I can make a better percentage of free throws than him. Seriously someone hard like Zach Randolph should just slap the shit out of him. for some reason guys that can't make free throws and whine all the time and act hard and are bitchy annoy me.

    I'd support lakeshow before I would ever support the clippers or the bulls.

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    Jesus christ, Myles.

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    retired Myles's Avatar
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    I don't why bro, but Blake Griffin drives me crazy.

    Other guys are just as pretentious and entitled (lebron etc) but Griffin drives me nuts. Maybe it is the diving, the facial expressions, the lack of charisma, just a whiner I guess... If don't like Lebron, but I can respect him. Watching the documentary on his highschool days made me understand him. Griffen has zero class.

    Reggie Miller whined but he had class and was just a beautiful man.

  21. #21
    retired Myles's Avatar
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    It is also the whole "Im gonna posterize you aggggggggggggggghhhhh" nonsense, okay so you can jump, but in the 4th quarter of a close game you are gonna turn the bull over and shoot less than 40 percent from the line. fuck off right?

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    Oh, I agree. He's basically the new Dominique Wilkins.

  23. #23
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    Blake has time to grow into a more well-rounded player as he attempts to stretch his jumper out, so the hate is just superficial in my eyes. Most of the points I agree to disagree or I can see, but I don't understand the lack of charisma. He's pretty much mastered the art of deadpan expression & has people interested in Kia besides those stupid hamster commercials.

    Reggie Miller was a great player, but I hate him now as a commentator more than I did as a player. He is god awful.

  24. #24
    retired Myles's Avatar
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    wtf is kia?

    griffin has zero charisma, same with chris paul... garnett, rondo, steve nash, andre miller ffs, these guys have charisma..

    allen Iverson, as big a prick as he was, had charisma.

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