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Thread: The VIP Thread

  1. #401
    Multiversal Champion OD50's Avatar
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    sweden
    Quote Originally Posted by Cewsh View Post
    Sadly, we will never see the King of Wrestling in WWE. Cesaro and Ohno may team up, but there are at least two problems with the name "Kings of Wrestling" in WWE.
    Of course, I wasn't meaning that they use the actual name. Hey, they could be the PoSE (Prince's of Sports Entertainment), and Cesaro could um, pose a lot during the matches.

  2. #402
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    Oh man, the Princes of Superior Sports Entertainment. WHO WANTS TO JOIN THE POSSE?

  3. #403
    X Ringo's Avatar
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    brazil
    The Ascension were actually good. Fuck you Kenneth Cameron. Although I was thinking that Rick Victor is a decent hand who could replace him. He's got little chance of making it alone but he's tall, has an evil face and black hair. Throw him in the air with Conor. I think he used to play a dark cowboy biker in OVW or something anyway.

    But I'm not sure they were ever going to make it to the main roster because they don't like anyone other than Taker having dark gimmicks now.

    Note: Remember when they turned BLACK PAIN into Sweet Papi Sanchez?




  4. #404
    I don't do tricks
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    Is it just me or is there lately this big Chris Benoit revival in the last year? There just seems to be so many videos with him in the thumbnail, accounts of his matches being the best ever, jokes about him being erased from history. Has this been constant and I'm just noticing it, or has something spurred this?

  5. #405
    Abort Kyle_242's Avatar
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    I haven't noticed, but it might be getting long enough that he's entering the Michael Jackson "let's forget everything bad he did and focus on the awesome stuff he gave us" phase.

  6. #406
    X Ringo's Avatar
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    brazil
    I was already focusing on the awesome stuff by like August of that year. Ahead of the times, me.

    I haven't noticed it. The "Benoit never existed" jokes have been pretty consistent ever since WWE got rid of everything.

  7. #407
    Defiance is a four letter
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    Anybody else miss The Fabulous Ones?

    http://www.cracked.com/blog/the-10-g...hots-all-time/

    Just me then.

  8. #408
    Furry, Filthy and Fun Badger's Avatar
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    From the main page:

    Following his marvelous physical transformation in recent months, Jake "The Snake" Roberts is eyeing one more run with the premiere wrestling organization in the world, the WWE.

    The legendary wrestler, who has gotten sober and lost 65 pounds with assistance from Diamond Dallas Page, revealed in an interview filmed earlier this month that his 2014 goal is to compete in next year's 30-Man Royal Rumble Match and win the annual affair.

    "It's great to be alive, it's great to be clean and sober. My life has changed so much, I've lost 65 pounds. I'm in better shape now than I was in 1992. I feel wonderful. I had shoulder surgery, so I just gotta rehab a little bit more," Roberts revealed to Bill Apter of 1Wrestling.com.

    He continued, "I'm going to give you a little secret I'm going to lay out just for you, Bill. My plan, whether they like it or not, is to be in the Royal Rumble next year. I want to do it. Not only do I want to do it, but I want to win that son of bitch. To come from where I came from, with all the problems that I had, I'm inspiring people to get healthy, to get right, to get sober, to get clean, because you don't have to give up. I wanted to give up for a long time. I quit living. And I'm back and enjoying the shit out of it."
    Go yerself Jake, whip Cena's ass at Mania!

  9. #409
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ringo View Post
    The Ascension were actually good. Fuck you Kenneth Cameron.
    One of the oddest things I saw watching FCW was Ascension going from "generic heels" to the batshit insane group. Honestly, if Bo hadn't gotten injured Raquel's group probably wouldn't have happened. It was pretty obvious at the time that Kruger was going to join and they'd feud with Norman Smiley.

  10. #410
    Andy
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    I was gonna start a thread for this but it's probably not worth it. I want you to come up with new finishers for some guys. People who I think need new finishers: Dolph Ziggler (Zig Zag isn't great, Fameasser is shit, superkick was good but he doesn't do it anymore, sleeper is shit), Daniel Bryan (his submission moves are all good but I always feel like submission specialists should also have a good impact move they can occasionally win with, maybe he should keep doing the chokeslam), Cody Rhodes (Crossroads thing just looks messy), Big E (I don't mind his finisher but he's such a beast he could surely come up with a much more impressive looking power move) and Fandango (his new thing is a bit meh, leg drop looks good though).

    GO

  11. #411
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    That's definitely worth a thread.

  12. #412
    Football manager? Peter Griffin's Avatar
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    uk
    Well for one thing D.Bry has started using the diving headbutt as a finish.

  13. #413
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    Has he actually beaten people with it?

  14. #414
    Main Eventer Kimura Kid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cewsh View Post
    Has he actually beaten people with it?
    Yeah at Mania...

  15. #415
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    And Elimination Chamber.

  16. #416
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    Forgot all about that.

  17. #417
    Main Eventer Kimura Kid's Avatar
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    Tell Me more please?

    DB OD'eed

  18. #418
    Andy
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    Ok I'll make a thread.

  19. #419
    Terrible at Sudoku
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    Moving into this in less than three weeks lads. Getting married in less than six.

    Can't wait
    Last edited by Kev; April 26th, 2013 at 7:02 PM.

  20. #420
    Defiance is a four letter
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cewsh View Post
    Has he actually beaten people with it?
    This is like Ebert letting slip he doesn't watch films.

  21. #421
    She was a lot like you Atty's Avatar
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    Nice, Kev! I like the little front balcony. I'd put a grill up there and eat hamburgers while yelling at the whippersnappers.

  22. #422
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    usa
    Fuck yeah holmes. That shit looks dope.

  23. #423
    Terrible at Sudoku
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    Cheers, can't wait gents.. it's gonna be magical. I'll take videos of the whole thing, sell it on the internet -- then buy a street of those things!

  24. #424
    Truth teller virms's Avatar
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    THIS JUST IN: virmicious moves in with kev to start rajah house. Vice, hero, atty and bert soon to follow.

  25. #425
    an affront to god mth's Avatar
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    That is one sexy looking place, Kev. Nice.

  26. #426
    Sir MOSHanTHRASHER's Avatar
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    Who want's to see the return of the Draft? http://www.wwe.com/inside/polls/woul...-the-wwe-draft

    I hope WWE.com is just trying to get some traffic and this is not a testing of the waters. It would not make any sense, the roster is too thin and brands are not even a thing anymore. The further away from a brand split they get the happier I am. Unify titles and just spread the stars across each show without having guys show up on both shows in the same weeks' time frame.

    However, look at the current differential in the poll 90% pro...this can't be good.

  27. #427
    Defiance is a four letter
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    Given they still run two separate rosters for house shows I'm for anything which strengthens the identity of the different brands.

    It gives more opportunity for talent and forces more inventiveness from the writing team. It's no coincidence that since the brands got muddled and we started to see the same faces on every show that the quality and diversity of what we see has dropped.

    I wasn't the biggest fan of this weeks raw, but what it did really well was give time to lower acts not always seen on the big shows. The stuff between Rhodes Scholars and Tons of Funk is probably the best example. Without Orton, Show and the rest of the SD roster who were at a show in Cardiff they were able to give some depth to a mid card feud.

    Because of the muddying of the waters the World Title has lost most of its importance. Given a split in the roster allows them to run more shows at a lesser cost to the performers health we're not going to see the split end soon. I'd like to see a return to brand only ppvs too.

  28. #428
    Furry, Filthy and Fun Badger's Avatar
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    Cody moustache action figure.

  29. #429
    You didn't see me, right? HHHnFoley_Rulez's Avatar
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    Got tickets to RAW in Manchester in November which could be a massive mistake - or awesome... Wonder what storylines will exist then? Fandango (c) Vs Cena WWE Title match? More likely Khali is back to face Ryback...

    I want to take a sign but not sure if I'd be arsed to hold it up. Probably be something like "takerson stole my cupcakes".

  30. #430
    I'm always watching you.. MMH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JP View Post
    Anybody else miss The Fabulous Ones?

    http://www.cracked.com/blog/the-10-g...hots-all-time/

    Just me then.
    Nope you aint alone, im with you there.

  31. #431
    The Rosk
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    Lads I made a thread in General Wrestling about facts. Yeah. Fucking smash some out of the park. Yeah.

  32. #432
    I'm always watching you.. MMH's Avatar
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    I feel that I really need to bring up something that has been annoying me greatly recently.

    Seamus constantly hitting Big Show with White Noise.

    The first time it was very impressive, the crowd popped big and the match itself was good. It suited the environment.

    But when you are picking up your resident giant in EVERY FUCKING MATCH it kind of loses its appeal. Anybody who does anything impressive with the Big Show now in future wont be as impressive coz Seamus has done it five times or however many times it is. Its stupid and kills not only Big Shows threat but also any steam that a future wrestler good gain from doing similar.

  33. #433
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    usa
    I couldn't agree more.

  34. #434
    an affront to god mth's Avatar
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    I'm in complete agreement. They really suck at handling Big Show in a lot of ways.

  35. #435
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    Can we have a counter of how many times he's hit White Noise? Bonus points if we can capture JBL saying the same thing every time. He's a human soundboard.

  36. #436
    Main Eventer Kimura Kid's Avatar
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    Ok few things, I need some explanations on. Hoping some of you could assist me.

    What happened to Morrison? Why is he wrestling on smaller shows?

    And why did they ruin this:



    Miz seemed like he was getting a mega push......and the right way. Why is he not at the top anymore?

  37. #437
    Andy
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    Morrison left at the end of his contract I believe. Lots of reports that he just wanted a break and that he will likely be back in the future.

    Miz is a strange one. Cena was having this interesting feud with Punk going into 2011 and it looked like he would face him at Mania. Then all of a sudden the title is on Miz and Cena is facing him, leaving the former champ (Orton) and Punk to face each other at Mania. Miz was really over as the champ as I remember which may have changed their plans. Then came the awful end to Mania 27 and Miz seemed to run out of steam after that. He was made to look awful by Cena in an I Quit and he dropped away from the main event until the Awesome Truth story. I thought that was a really interesting storyline but it kind of fizzled out disappointingly and ended up just being fodder for the Rock/Cena feud. After that he'd lost his edge and so now they're trying him as a face.
    Last edited by Andy; April 30th, 2013 at 12:24 PM.

  38. #438
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    Morrisson left a few years ago. He was basically just floundering around the mid-card and was never really going to go any further than that. He did have a couple of absolutely cracking matches (there was a street fight with Miz back in early 2011 that was excellent), but basically put, he was the drizzling shits on the mic and had little to no charisma. On top of that, he is the boyfriend of Melina, who left the WWE under a dark cloud a little earlier. I'm fairly sure he was in the doghouse for constantly siding with her and not leaving her despite her being a genuine mental order.
    He also refused to hug Trish Stratus at Mania 27 because she 'stole' Melina's spot.

    Miz basically wasn't over, wasn't being taken seriously as a champion and wasn't respected. He won his title, the company shoved a fair bit of backing behind him to begin with but in the end made him look like a dick and a complete understudy to Rock/Cena and that shot his credibility a fair bit. He is also not very good.
    (INSERT SIGNATURE HERE)

  39. #439
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    Or what Andy said.
    (INSERT SIGNATURE HERE)

  40. #440
    Defiance is a four letter
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    Yeah, Miz is pants.

    The fact he managed to hide this from so many people for so long is to his eternal credit.

  41. #441
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    That Miz title run was actually pretty fucking fantastic. It was the Rock coming back that destroyed whatever that could have wound up being.

  42. #442
    Andy
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    Thinking back, WWE was awesome in the second half of 2011 but everything had kind of fizzled out by the end of the year. Punk's pipebomb and aftermath was awesome and I really enjoyed the Triple H stuff (well, the stuff with him as a dodgy inexperienced authority figure). But the whole Nash/text thing was kind of weird then as I say the Awesome Truth stuff fizzled out. That may have been down to a wellness fail from Truth if I remember correctly though.

    I remember that Raw where everyone had boycotted it. Only Trips, Cena, Punk and Sheamus were there so Trips reffed a match between Cena and Sheamus and put Punk on commentary. I was genuinely excited to see what was gonna happen there but nothing really did apart from Big Johnny becoming a character. They also did the Punk vs Trips match way too early.

  43. #443
    Main Eventer Kimura Kid's Avatar
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    Alright, Thanks for the explanation.

    Seems like WWE gives up so easily nowadays. Give a guy a month to sink or swim or be doomed to the mid card forever!

    Miz seemed like he was super over in that little clip. Maybe if WWE properly booked talent they wouldn't be sizzling off half a year down the road.

    Or is it guys just get the ball and don't know how to make the most of it. Who's to blame here??

  44. #444
    Main Eventer Kimura Kid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cewsh View Post
    That Miz title run was actually pretty fucking fantastic. It was the Rock coming back that destroyed whatever that could have wound up being.

    It looked like the lead up was awesome as well. no pun intended.

    It's so annoying how they let talent slide through their fingers.

  45. #445
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy View Post
    Thinking back, WWE was awesome in the second half of 2011 but everything had kind of fizzled out by the end of the year. Punk's pipebomb and aftermath was awesome and I really enjoyed the Triple H stuff (well, the stuff with him as a dodgy inexperienced authority figure). But the whole Nash/text thing was kind of weird then as I say the Awesome Truth stuff fizzled out. That may have been down to a wellness fail from Truth if I remember correctly though.

    I remember that Raw where everyone had boycotted it. Only Trips, Cena, Punk and Sheamus were there so Trips reffed a match between Cena and Sheamus and put Punk on commentary. I was genuinely excited to see what was gonna happen there but nothing really did apart from Big Johnny becoming a character. They also did the Punk vs Trips match way too early.

    Such a waste of a massive massive storyline. I don't think anyone knew where it was going but the timeline for it was so wierd. The Nash/HHH/Punk stuff never really made any sense then you're all of a sudden supposed to buy that Miz and Truth are DANGEROUS, then Natalya walks out because she's "just a woman" along with the rest of the roster. All the while you're firing through Vince and HHH as authority figures and it was all just a bit of a mess in the end - I blame the rock.

    If he wasnt coming back they wouldn't have rushed through the whole storyline and made sure it was over by Survivor Series.

    Fucking Rock, coming back and making the company loads of money while raising interest in the product immensely. Prick.
    (INSERT SIGNATURE HERE)

  46. #446
    My dad pinned Mr Backlund Kneeneighbor's Avatar
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    usa
    I respect Morrison for not hugging Trish.

    I also respect Morrison for letting his gf bang half the roster.
    Last edited by Kneeneighbor; April 30th, 2013 at 1:39 PM. Reason: typo

  47. #447
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    Miz's title reign was surprisingly good and they had done a good job building him up as a legitimate threat in the weeks leading to Wrestlemania. They pulled the plug on his push because the match with Cena at Wrestlemania was terrible. Bad work, no heat. Some will be inclined to say that Rock overshadowed the feud, or that the crowd was so quiet because they were waiting for Rock to get involved. I'm sure that played a role, but it really doesn't change the fact that the match was incredibly boring and had no action or story.

    Subsequently, he fell back down the card. I don't have a problem with it. The only guy with a main event position right now who I feel is less useful than Miz is Swagger. The other top guys are: Cena, Punk, Orton, Sheamus, Del Rio, Ziggler, Big Show, Ryback, and Swagger. Name the guy whose spot he deserves. The rest of the midcard is Barrett, Henry, Kofi, Cesaro, Fandango, Cody, and Sandow. I think he's the least useful of that group as well. Decent talker, not a very good wrestler. Had pretty good heat as a heel, not getting over as a face. I don't really see him being all that useful going forward.

  48. #448
    I don't do tricks
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    What was the storyline that Mick Foley wanted to do with Melina that he couldn't and got upset about? I believe he included it in a book, and I've seen people say that it sounded terrible.

  49. #449
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Law View Post
    They pulled the plug on his push because the match with Cena at Wrestlemania was terrible. Bad work, no heat.
    I'm not sure that's the case at all. Certainly there's no proof that that is the reason, and they wouldn't have been likely to have Miz be the heel centerpiece behind Rock's first match back in WWE.

  50. #450
    X Ringo's Avatar
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    brazil
    I agree with The Law. I liked Miz's title reign a lot - and I did find it odd how he was suddenly shafted after the Mania match bombed considering how positive everyone was supposed to be behind the scenes about how his reign had gone. The match wasn't going too well before the count out but I still blamed the shitty, unimaginative booking for it's complete failure.

    He's been waiting for another chance for 2 years now - but his ring work hasn't improved that much, his face turn hasn't exactly been a resounding success and as Law pointed out, whose spot would he take? The queue of guys waiting for their big push is long enough already. Almost all of them are better than him too.

  51. #451
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Rogerer View Post
    What was the storyline that Mick Foley wanted to do with Melina that he couldn't and got upset about? I believe he included it in a book, and I've seen people say that it sounded terrible.
    Basically he wanted her to buddy up to him and then turn on him, as far as I recall. It didn't make a lot of sense and was clearly just Mick trying to get away with doing whatever he wanted with whoever he wanted.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ringo View Post
    his ring work hasn't improved that much
    I agree with the rest, but I pretty strongly disagree with this.

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    I actually want to watch this WM 27 Match between Cena and Miz. Seems no one liked it. lol

    Like watching a train wreck.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Rogerer View Post
    What was the storyline that Mick Foley wanted to do with Melina that he couldn't and got upset about? I believe he included it in a book, and I've seen people say that it sounded terrible.
    Off the top of my head it was something to do with Foley wanting to establish an onscreen friendship with Melina then have her be the reason he joined the kiss my ass club to stop her being fired, then she would turn on him and he would be fired anyway cementing her heel turn. Something along those lines. It's all in the Hardcore Diaries.
    (INSERT SIGNATURE HERE)

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    Isn't that exactly what actually happened?

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    I think so actually. His original storyline idea was something about him and Terry Funk building a match and then that ended up turning into the One Night Stand trios match, and then after that he decided he wanted (not in a seedy way at all of course...) Melina to get over. There was something about it not totally working out the way that he wanted but I CANT FUCKING REMEMBER IT ALRIGHT THE FUCKING LAW. I FOUGHT THE LAW AND YOU FUCKING WON MATE RIGHT. I CANT REMEMBER.
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  57. #457
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    What is the deal with Foley and Melina? I always found the "friends" explanation a little strange and suspicious.

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    Mostly it didn't work because nobody gave a shit about Terry Funk, Melina or Tommy Dreamer by that point. Which WWE told Mick repeatedly, and he wouldn't listen.

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    Foley is like that with a few of the Divas. He cuts about claiming he loves them all as little sisters and friends but hes A LITTLE TOO FUCKING FRIENDLY if you ask me. He's a definite user of the ohhhh im such a nice guy let me just tease my nice guy dick inside your nice guy vagina and then we can talk about our feelings but i wont be listening because ill be too busy fucking you and wearing a sock instead of a condom.

    Something like that.
    (INSERT SIGNATURE HERE)

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    Basically, Mick Foley is a whiny, bitter, creepy as fuck dude that everyone has given a pass to because they loved him when they were 13.

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    How is he creepy? Finding women younger than you to be sexually attractive is pretty normal. It's not like Melina was underage or anything like that.

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    Awwww come on now Cewsh don't say that. I actually love him but he comes across as a little self important and thinks far too much about what he's worth but at the same time a whole generation of us love him and what he did. Also I met him last week and we talked about the DDP Cookie crushing story from his first book and he was all 'aw lol that was so funny' and I was like 'yeah man i was rofling when i read it' then he signed the book for me. It was worth the FORTY FUCKING QUID I PAID FOR IT.

    But yeah most of his stand up show was going "YEAH I DID THIS PROMO WITH 'X' IN THE YEAR '200X' WHO HERE HAS SEEN IT WHAT DID YOU THINK OF IT I THOUGHT IT WAS PRETTY SPECIAL AND AMAZING AND IM THE BEST PROMO GUY' and every now and again some dick would shout CANE DEWEY and he would be all 'oh lol yeah i cut such an amazing promo that it became part of wrestling landscape' and im like 'LOL MICK your arse is a fucking landscape you fat cunt' but I still love him.
    (INSERT SIGNATURE HERE)

  63. #463
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beer-Belly View Post
    How is he creepy? Finding women younger than you to be sexually attractive is pretty normal.
    Sure. Not sure how that relates to finding a woman attractive and then forcing your boss to get her a job with you so you can work together.

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    BUT HE FELL OFF A FUCKING CELL CEWSH YOU HEARTLESS BASTARD.
    (INSERT SIGNATURE HERE)

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    WHICH WAS ALSO STUPID AND HURT THE WRESTLING BUSINESS

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    Is that your nickname for his FUCKING BACK WHICH HE BROKE IN HALF ON THE 25 FOOT FALL FROM THE CELL?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cewsh View Post
    WHICH WAS ALSO STUPID AND HURT THE WRESTLING BUSINESS
    No it didn't. That's something you've imagined. It's a great moment that's in EVERY FUCKING VIDEO PACKAGE WWE HAS DONE SINCE THEN.

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    Interesting point of discussion actually. It's a fucking amazing moment without any doubt, but if you could go back and make the decision over whether it happened or not, would you and why?
    (INSERT SIGNATURE HERE)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beer-Belly View Post
    No it didn't. That's something you've imagined. It's a great moment that's in EVERY FUCKING VIDEO PACKAGE WWE HAS DONE SINCE THEN.
    It killed the Hell in a Cell concept. It created an arms race for bigger and more dangerous spots that shortened several careers and it gave wrestling fans entirely the wrong idea of what a great match is. Just because it made for great video package material doesn't mean Edge is any less retired 10 years early because of the spot race that happened afterwards.

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    I'm glad people aren't taking a dozen unprotected chairshots to the noggin anymore, but the sports columnists who piss and moan about that frequently turn a blind eye to concussions in football. Even then, football players make millions of dollars a year. Either get out at a reasonable time or fuck off.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cewsh View Post
    It killed the Hell in a Cell concept. It created an arms race for bigger and more dangerous spots that shortened several careers and it gave wrestling fans entirely the wrong idea of what a great match is. Just because it made for great video package material doesn't mean Edge is any less retired 10 years early because of the spot race that happened afterwards.

    Very good point, but to COUNTER THAT YOU FUCKING KNOB (KIDDING ON), Do you think guys like the Hardyz, E and C, the Dudleys, and even guys like Jericho/Benoit/Angle would've gotten over to the extent that they did without some massive fucking spots that came directly on the back of the HIAC?
    (INSERT SIGNATURE HERE)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beer-Belly View Post
    I'm glad people aren't taking a dozen unprotected chairshots to the noggin anymore, but the sports columnists who piss and moan about that frequently turn a blind eye to concussions in football. Even then, football players make millions of dollars a year. Either get out at a reasonable time or fuck off.
    Yeah, that argument you're making is miles away from what we're actually discussing here. I'm talking about people jumping off of shit, and in general creating spots so big that it made anything smaller seem lesser by comparison. And then you get shit like Edge spearing Jeff Hardy 20 feet out of the air. Stuff that looks unbelievably spectacular, but isn't sustainable.

    The Attitude Era raised the bar on violence and danger so high that it couldn't be followed. And WWE has spent a decade just trying to reteach fans what professional wrestling actually is. That didn't start with Foley jumping off the cage, but that is by far the biggest influence any one event has had on what followed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Porno und Sauerkraut View Post
    Very good point, but to COUNTER THAT YOU FUCKING KNOB (KIDDING ON), Do you think guys like the Hardyz, E and C, the Dudleys, and even guys like Jericho/Benoit/Angle would've gotten over to the extent that they did without some massive fucking spots that came directly on the back of the HIAC?
    Well Jericho, Angle and Benoit didn't get over because of those kinds of spots, even if they did do them on occasion. And I think they would have had an easier time getting over if the people in the segments before and after theirs weren't falling 50 feet off of ladders and setting each other on fire. It's hard to make actual wrestling seem important when all of that other stuff is making it look silly and meaningless. That's why guys like Benoit and Guerrero had to wait until the audience was reeducated before fans realized what they had in them.

    I have no doubt that the Dudley Boys and Edge and Christian would have been successful, though not nearly AS successful. They were heel teams with great mic work. Vince wouldn't have pushed them anywhere near as hard, so their careers would have suffered by comparison, and the Hardy Boyz would have never gotten where they did without this stuff. But then, maybe the Hardy Boyz wouldn't be hooked on drugs (Jeff) and hardly able to walk (Matt).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cewsh View Post
    It killed the Hell in a Cell concept. It created an arms race for bigger and more dangerous spots that shortened several careers and it gave wrestling fans entirely the wrong idea of what a great match is. Just because it made for great video package material doesn't mean Edge is any less retired 10 years early because of the spot race that happened afterwards.
    A "great match" is subjective. It's possible to enjoy Ricky Steamboat and Mick Foley at the same time. Is it even possible to pinpoint what hurt Edge's neck? You almost act as if injuries didn't occur in wrestling before Foley started doing his stuntman feats. Foley wasn't responsible for anyone else's fate but his own. Blame the desire to be a big name in a crowded field by taking ridiculous chances before placing blame on one guy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cewsh View Post

    The Attitude Era raised the bar on violence and danger so high that it couldn't be followed. And WWE has spent a decade just trying to reteach fans what professional wrestling actually is. That didn't start with Foley jumping off the cage, but that is by far the biggest influence any one event has had on what followed.
    #thanksmick

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    I picked Jericho, Angle and Benoit because while they were some of the best actual wrestlers and most technically gifted, I don't actually think they would've gotten to the levels they did without doing some more 'extreme' stuff, like the moonsaults off cages, TLC matches, Slams through glass, diving chair shots and the like. I think fans weren't really giving these guys total acceptance until they got a few 'holy shit' moments from them.

    However, In typing that, I'm just realising that instead of countering your argument im actually reinforcing it because the fanst stupid fucking expectiations caused by Foley LEAD TO THAT FUCKING HELL SLARE ITS BEEN A LONG DAY LAD.
    (INSERT SIGNATURE HERE)

  77. #477
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    The WWE haven't been spending 10 years re-educating fans. Lucky if it's five years.

    There's been some absolutely brutal spots, lots of blood, lots of gimmicks and lots of complete nonsense since the Attitude Era. Obviously nothing quite as violent or dangerous but it's not like they've eradicated it since 2001.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beer-Belly View Post
    A "great match" is subjective. It's possible to enjoy Ricky Steamboat and Mick Foley at the same time. Is it even possible to pinpoint what hurt Edge's neck? You almost act as if injuries didn't occur in wrestling before Foley started doing his stuntman feats. Foley wasn't responsible for anyone else's fate but his own. Blame the desire to be a big name in a crowded field by taking ridiculous chances before placing blame on one guy.
    I don't blame Mick Foley for doing what he did. It was just a rotten thing that hurt the business in ways he couldn't have forseen.

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    Michaels and the "first" ladder match also had a huge effect on younger wrestlers. Who didn't want to try and top that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Porno und Sauerkraut View Post
    I picked Jericho, Angle and Benoit because while they were some of the best actual wrestlers and most technically gifted, I don't actually think they would've gotten to the levels they did without doing some more 'extreme' stuff, like the moonsaults off cages, TLC matches, Slams through glass, diving chair shots and the like. I think fans weren't really giving these guys total acceptance until they got a few 'holy shit' moments from them.

    However, In typing that, I'm just realising that instead of countering your argument im actually reinforcing it because the fanst stupid fucking expectiations caused by Foley LEAD TO THAT FUCKING HELL SLARE ITS BEEN A LONG DAY LAD.
    Yep. They had to do those things because that was the time they wrestled in. But if Kurt Angle debuted today, he'd never have to do any moonsaults off of cages to get over. Vince would stab him if he even considered it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy View Post
    The WWE haven't been spending 10 years re-educating fans. Lucky if it's five years.

    There's been some absolutely brutal spots, lots of blood, lots of gimmicks and lots of complete nonsense since the Attitude Era. Obviously nothing quite as violent or dangerous but it's not like they've eradicated it since 2001.
    Of course not. But they've made it a rare spectacle instead of letting it be the expectation. Triple H did an interview once where he said that they needed to teach fans that someone could win with a bodyslam again so that they could begin to build back to the complicated stuff again. They couldn't top what had been done by guys like Foley, so over the 10 years following, they slowly scaled it all back. These days you never see anything remotely like what used to happen in those days, danger wise. So when something like the Undertaker leaping over the top rope happens, it means 10 times more than it ever would have at the time. It was a gradual process that has a clear imprint from 2002 on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beer-Belly View Post
    Michaels and the "first" ladder match also had a huge effect on younger wrestlers. Who didn't want to try and top that?
    He definitely had a hand in this too. He began the race to see who could top who, and Foley took it to a place that people destroyed themselves to follow.

  82. #482
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    Also to say it hurt the business is flat out wrong. You claim him diving off the cell had a big impact on what followed, but what followed is the most successful period in wrestling history. A period that ended with WWE buying out the competition and becoming the only dominant force in the industry. A period which created a generation of fans who still tune in today.

  83. #483
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy View Post
    Also to say it hurt the business is flat out wrong. You claim him diving off the cell had a big impact on what followed, but what followed is the most successful period in wrestling history. A period that ended with WWE buying out the competition and becoming the only dominant force in the industry. A period which created a generation of fans who still tune in today.
    A period which was followed by a 10 year drought in both interest and quality, and which has seen more wrestler deaths, early retirements and general disillusionment with the business than any other I could name.

    It certainly helped the business in the short term. But I would argue that it hurt worse in the long.

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    This could make a good thread.

    Nudge.

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    I will guarantee WWE would have been just as popular during the Attitude Era if Foley hadn't been thrown off the Cell. That was a great moment, but it's a drop in the ocean compared to everything that was going on to draw people in at the time: Austin, Austin vs. McMahon, Undertaker, Kane, DX, Rock, Foley. Crazy stuff happening every week on Raw. Engaging stories performed by great wrestlers.

    If Foley doesn't fly off the Cell he probably wouldn't have become as big a star. On the other hand, he could have died doing that spot. I don't know what effect that spot had on his longterm health and it probably pales in comparison to all the other damage he did to his body, but it definitely didn't help. How many careers do you think were shortened by guys trying to top that? How many injuries and how much missed time? How many guys got hooked on pain pills, or damaged their brains?

    I saw something Jim Cornette said the other night: that every period of hot-shotting in a particular territory subsequently led to a longer period of stagnation, because there's no way to top the untoppable. Once you've had a flaming tables and chairs and AIDS-infected hypodermic needles, there's not really anyway to entertain people with basic wrestling matches and stories. Is that what happened to wrestling? Did the pressure from the Monday Night Wars result in so much hot shotting that they wrecked wrestling because fans can't be entertained by anything other than constant title changes, swerves, unprotected chair shots to the head, and whatever other bullshit creative can dream up? This might deserve its own thread.

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    I don't want to start my argument here from scratch, but if somebody starts a thread, I'd be glad to copy and paste the discussion thus far into it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cewsh View Post
    A period which was followed by a 10 year drought in both interest and quality, and which has seen more wrestler deaths, early retirements and general disillusionment with the business than any other I could name.

    It certainly helped the business in the short term. But I would argue that it hurt worse in the long.
    I don't agree necessarily, but I will accept retirements and disillusionment, but I don't think popping wrestler deaths in there is on at all, after all a lot of those deaths stem from habits/life decisions that wrestlers took years previous (Davey Boy, Rude, Pillman, Eddie etc)

  88. #488
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    Nobody died because Mick Foley jumped off a cell. Yeah there's been early retirements but nobody was forced to follow Mick's lead. Nobody knows how Edge did his neck in (although hasn't he intimated that it was too many spears rather than too many massive spots) or how other people have become so banged up. I don't think there's any evidence to suggest people trying to follow Mick's example resulted in them overdosing or roiding themselves into oblivion is there?

    Yeah there was a real lack of quality following on from the Attitude Era. But as you're arguing, lack of mad spots doesn't equal lack of quality. The lack of quality came from immensely poor booking and a lack of talent coming through. The Attitude Era was not only unique in terms of violence etc, but in terms of the sheer amount of talent. When you have people like Foley retiring, Austin packing it in, Rock going off to do movies...they're almost impossible to replace. Plus there has never been the same amount of talent ready to break through into the main event as there was back then. In fact I'd argue right now is the first time since the Attitude Era that the WWE has been properly stacked with talent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy View Post
    In fact I'd argue right now is the first time since the Attitude Era that the WWE has been properly stacked with talent.
    Definitely not sure I agree with that. I'd argue that the roster immediately after the Attitude Era was better. And in 2005... up until like 2009. It's all about how you use the talent at your disposal. They made the most of everyone in the Attitude Era. The quality of wrestling on an almost weekly between 2005 and 2009 is probably unparalleled in WWE's history for me too - probably as a result of the quality of the roster.

  90. #490
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    Yeah that may not be true, especially as I zoned out for periods, especially at the time you mentioned. The roster right after the Attitude Era should've been better I guess, but they ruined the Invasion angle so badly that a lot of the roster never got to be as good as they should have been in WWE.

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    https://forums.rajah.com/showthread....Ruin-Wrestling

    TALK ABOUT IT THERE BECAUSE THE LAW* IS AWESOME

    *the poster

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    TAKE IT TO THE NEW THREAD.

    Edit: WHAT FUCKING VICE FUCKING SAID.

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    FUCK WHAT VICE SAID.


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    ALRIGHT LADS Here's me and my best mate Mick Foley CEWSH he says to leave him alone.

    (INSERT SIGNATURE HERE)

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    Cewsh vs Foley WM30


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    look at me trying to hold him back and hes like IS HE CEWSH and im like no mate its not worth it he only said you single handedly spoiled professionaal wrestling for the whole world just LEAVE IT
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  100. #500
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    Foley would beat the utter shit out of Cewsh. Then Cewsh would give it a scathing review and his point is completely proven in stunning fashion.

    Foley wins the battle, Cewsh wins the war.

    Boom.

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